29Metals Limited (29M) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Thank you for standing by and welcome to the 29Metals Limited September Quarter 2024 Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] I'd now like to hand the conference over to Mr. James Palmer, CEO. Please go ahead.

Good morning all. James Palmer here and thanks for joining this 29Metals update for the September quarter for 2024. Today, we'll be speaking to the presentation released this morning alongside our September quarter report. And joining me here are Ed Cooney, our Chief Operating Officer; Peter Herbert, our Chief Financial Officer; and Kristian Stella, our Group Executive, Corporate Development. Well, look, it's great to be speaking with you all again today to talk through what was a great quarter of delivery by the team, a quarter that moves us closer to our 2024 objectives and beyond. Pausing on Slide 3 before we get into the quarter results, just highlights again the 29Metals investment proposition, specifically large Australian-based copper endowments, lots of upside potential. Slide 4 lays out our key 2024 priorities and they remain the same as when I spoke to you 3 months ago. Health and safety first always and across the group discipline in productivity and in cost improvements with some great wins by the team on this front during the quarter. At Golden Grove, it's all about the drumbeat of delivery to maximize free cash flow and moving towards a final investment decision at Gossan Valley. And at Capricorn Copper, it's all about the imperatives for a sustainable restart with water reduction the immediate focus. Slide 5 shows a summary of the September quarter. So on safety, our TRIF slightly up over the quarter, and we remain focused on safety as our #1 priority. Operationally, it was a strong quarter delivered by the team at Golden Grove, producing 4.4 kilotonnes of copper and 19.1 kilotonnes of zinc, positioning us well to deliver our full year metal production guidance. In addition, the asset generated $42 million of operating cash flow and $26 million of free cash. So a great result. At Capricorn Copper, really pleasing progress was made towards our immediate-term focus of reducing water levels on site with the team progressing the things within our control to position the asset for optimal water reduction in the coming wet season. Specifically, commencing treatment of the water in the Mill Creek Dam in preparedness for controlled treated water releases during the wet season was a major milestone for the quarter. So I'll now pass to Ed to talk through Golden Grove in some additional detail. I'll then provide an update on Capricorn Copper prior to Peter providing a corporate and finance update for the quarter. So over to you, Ed.

Thanks, James, and morning, everyone. So moving on to Slide 7. As James mentioned, a great quarter delivered by the team at Golden Grove, producing 4.4 kilotonnes of copper and 19.1 kilotonnes of zinc, positioning us well to deliver our full year metal production guidance. As foreshadowed in the June quarter report, a higher zinc production in the second half of this year is being enabled by paste filling completed earlier in the year and progress of Xantho Extended development advance, providing access to high-grade ore through the second half of the year. And from the chart on the top right-hand side of the screen, you can see the proportion of Xantho Extended ore at circa 50% for the last 2 quarters. To this end, 19.1 kilotonnes of zinc production during the quarter was about a 300% uplift versus the March quarter and a 25% uplift versus the June quarter. Zinc grade milled was 6.3% versus 4.8% in the prior quarter, with the higher feed grade increasing zinc recovery from 83% to 85%. Our copper production is also tracking well year-to-date with production of 4.4 kilotonnes during the quarter, which puts our year-to-date copper production at 16.6 kilotonnes and positioning us well relative to the full year guidance range of 18 to 22 kilotonnes. Development at Xantho Extended continued at rates to enable full year metal production guidance with lower quarter-on-quarter development at Xantho Extended of approximately 700 meters versus the June quarter of a bit over 900 meters, and that was reflective of lower planned activity as we established the next sublevel of fresh air infrastructure within the lower levels at Xantho Extended. So moving on to Slide 8 and another pleasing quarter for unit costs with C1 costs and all-in sustaining costs of USD 2.52 and USD 3.42 per pound of copper sold, respectively. Marginally higher quarter-on-quarter absolute site costs were driven by a planned 8-day extended shutdown during the quarter and some additional required maintenance expenditures. The quarter-on-quarter increase in unit costs was primarily due to reversal of the stockpile movement credit from the June quarter of $33 million to a $21 million charge and increased treatment charges linked to the higher zinc sale volumes and recent strength in the zinc price, given the link to the zinc treatment charge escalator associated with pre-IPO offtake agreements. Impacts of stockpile movements and treatment charges were partially offset by higher byproducts during the quarter. Moving on to Slide 9 and activity associated with the capital expenditure on the TSF 4 project really ramped up during the quarter and final key approval from the Department of Water and Environmental Regulation required for completion of construction is also now in hand. The photos on Slide 9 show the excellent progress being made on the project and hopefully, you can get some context of the scale of the facility. The project remains on track for completion in Q1 of 2025. And owing to its scale and thickened tailings deposition methodology, TSF 4 is expected to enable lower deposition costs over the life of the mine. In addition, the upfront investment in long-term tailings capacity is really expected to derisk future tailings permitting requirements as compared to the incremental approach of building stage lifts on smaller facilities adopted at Golden Grove in prior years. Next on Slide 10. Production efficiency initiatives continue to be a major focus for the team at Golden Grove and indeed across the business. Working closely with our contract partners on site, productivity initiatives to increase metal production and reduce unit production costs have been a key focus through the year. A couple of recent wins on this front are shown, specifically the BlastIQ project, which actually won an award at the recent Australian Mining 2024 Prospect Awards and enables digital reporting, analytics and information sharing between underground operators and production engineers and the implementation of some 3D stope and drive scanning technology. So these are really 2 further examples of leveraging the fiber optic backbone that we installed underground in 2023 to really have faster work cycles, increased mobile fleet availability and improved safety. And turning to Slide 11. We continue to progress Gossan Valley towards a final investment decision with works during the quarter really focused on review of outcomes from geotechnical assessments of both box-cut and raise bore locations, receipt and analysis of surface infrastructure and underground mining tenders and refinement of the economic model. Gossan Valley to date has been drilled from surface, but history certainly shows that mining fronts at Golden Grove tend to grow over time. And the team are very excited about the prospect of getting underground and the opportunity of really testing the extent of known mineralization. Upon development, Gossan Valley is expected to enhance overall ore production and scheduling flexibility by providing an additional independent and relatively shallow production front at Golden Grove. I'll hand back to you, James, to talk through Capricorn Copper.

Great. Thanks, Ed. Yes, some real highlights there at Golden Grove. So at Capricorn, yes, reduction of water levels on site remains the immediate focus. As outlined post the June quarter, controlled release of treated water is required to rebase site water levels in the nearer term and to effectively manage potential future high rainfall wet seasons. Treated water releases are, of course, subject to flow rates in Gunpowder Creek with flows to facilitate the controlled releases typically occurring during the wet season, which is between November through April, so almost upon us. Given the volume of water on site, meaningful water reduction is likely to take more than 1 wet season. The significant investment made year-to-date to optimize controlled treated water release outcomes ahead of the '24-'25 wet season and beyond, it's important to stress that investment made enables a step change in the site's treatment and release capability compared to last wet season. Specifically, the Mill Creek Dam or MCD water treatment and release infrastructure and the refurbishment of the lime slaking plant now enables treatment of water in the MCD via water circulation and in-line lime dosing and the controlled release of pre-treated water directly from the MCD to Gunpowder Creek. This provides a tenfold uplift versus achievable water release flow rates during the '23-'24 wet season. To this end, commencement of lime dosing of water in the MCD using the new water treatment infrastructure was a significant milestone during the quarter and positions the team really well for optimal treated water release over the coming wet season. With this significant investment in water treatment and release capability, we're confident of being ready for water release when the creek flows begin. In addition, applications to amend the existing EA have been submitted and are being assessed by the regulator. And while this process continues, in parallel, we're working with the regulator to secure an acceptable interim mechanism to streamline water release outcomes for the '24-'25 wet season. Commissioning of the repurposed processing plant as an interim water treatment plant commenced post quarter end, adding to the big list of wins the team had for the quarter. As we release water from the MCD, we'll be able to use the repurposed processing plant to treat water from EPit to refill the MCD for further controlled treated water releases. We expect this to be a more efficient process as opposed to refilling the MCD with water from EPit and solely treating it with the MCD infrastructure or as per last wet season, treating the water from EPit via lime dosing in ponds 3 and 4. So either way, a step change from last wet season. Looking beyond the immediate reduction of water levels, a new water treatment plant as a long-term water solution and life of mine tailings capacity are the other imperatives for a future successful and sustainable restart of operations at Capricorn Copper. Although not the immediate focus, progress continued to be made on both fronts during the quarter and detailed design for a new water treatment plant progressed and multiple tailings options continue to be assessed to maintain optionality. On Slide 14, the picture on the left shows the in-progress treatment of water in the Mill Creek Dam in preparedness for controlled treated water releases during the wet season. You can see the bulk treatment and release infrastructure on the bank of the MCD there in the middle of the picture, which is taking water from the dam, dosing with lime, then circulating it back into the dam. On the right [ are the ]mechanical evaporators working at EPit, where on-site water inventory was reduced from 3.7 to 3.5 gigalitres via this mechanical and natural evaporation during the quarter. On Slide 15 you can see the vehicles shown in the plan view photos of the bulk treatment and release infrastructure and the enhanced diversion dam photos, showing the scale of the projects undertaken to date, which can be difficult to appreciate when not on site. All of this investment puts the asset on a fundamentally better footing from an environmental compliance and water management perspective and provides a step change in the capability to manage high rainfall wet seasons and achieve meaningful wet season releases to reduce the water levels on site. Now, Slide 16 shows the good drill results received at the beginning of the quarter, but more broadly talks to the significant value unlocked at Capricorn Copper once we deal with the water. So, shiny core and big copper intervals aside, the great thing about these drill results is the team were able to confirm continuity and orientation of a new mineralized zone east of the Portal Fault in an area previously thought to be unmineralized. So in that area, previously thought to be unmineralized, we now have drill results like 45 meters at 2.5% copper, 36 meters at 3.9% copper within a broader zone of 228 meters at 1.2% copper. So very mineralized as it turns out. And all of these results around an existing 64.8 million tonne resource with established development and infrastructure, both underground and on the surface, all in a 1,900 square kilometer land position within the highly prospective Mount Isa Inlier. So there's lots of copper there. We just need to take care of the water issue so we can sustainably and successfully start operations and unlock the value of that copper in the ground. So with that, I'll hand over to Peter to provide a finance and corporate overview of the September quarter. Peter?

Thank you, James. On Slide 18, I'll start with our revenue outcomes for the quarter. 29Metals unaudited revenue of $177 million for the September quarter was an increase of 39% on the prior quarter result. This was driven by a 52% increase in sales at Golden Grove, offset by the reduced sales at Capricorn Copper post suspension of operations. Golden Grove's higher revenues reflect increased sales volumes of copper, zinc and gold quarter-on-quarter. Copper as a percentage of total revenue was 47%, a decrease on the prior quarter result of approximately 50%, reflecting the runoff of production and sales at Capricorn Copper in the prior quarter and a greater proportion of zinc and gold byproduct revenue in Golden Grove sales. The strong sales result for the quarter resulted in Golden Grove generating $42 million of operating cash flow and $26 million of free cash flow for the quarter. Cash outflows at Capricorn Copper were $23 million, with investment in water management capabilities and environmental compliance projects ahead of the 2024 wet season. Outflows are expected to continue to reduce through 2025 as these projects are completed and operating costs are reduced to reflect lower steady-state activity levels. Reduction of cash outflows during the production suspension period at Capricorn Copper remains a focus. To this end, the power supply agreement at the site was varied from 12 megawatts to 5 megawatts effective from July 2024, reducing fixed power supply costs. Additionally, trucking of stockpiles to Mount Isa for processing and sale commenced post the end of the quarter. Corporate cash flows for the quarter included stamp duty installment payments in connection with the 2021 IPO-related acquisition of Golden Grove. Installment payments commenced from the beginning of the September quarter. The $27 million stamp duty amount plus interest is payable in 12 equal installments. Additionally, 29Metals continued to amortize its senior liabilities with a further [ USD 2.5 million ] principal repayment plus interest during the quarter. Progress was made on the insurance relating to the loss and damage suffered as a result of the extreme weather event at Capricorn Copper in March 2023 during and post quarter end. 29Metals and its insurers are advancing discussions seeking settlement of the service component of the claim and pushing for that on a basis as soon as possible. 29Metals finished the quarter with unaudited available liquidity of $104 million, consisting of $60 million of cash and undrawn offtake facility amounted to USD 30 million. This compares to available liquidity of $130 million at the end of the June quarter. Thank you very much, everyone, and back to you, James.

Great. Thanks, Peter. Thanks, Ed. So as we spoke to on Slide 4, in closing, the team and I understand the immediate priorities for the business for the rest of 2024 and are making good progress. We must continue to focus on safe, sustainable improvement in productivity and disciplined cost management across the business. We must continue the drumbeat of delivery that Golden Grove is establishing now that we're firmly into Xantho Extended to deliver guidance. And at Capricorn Copper, we must continue to manage our environmental responsibilities, manage costs and progress the imperatives for a sustainable restart of operations with the immediate priority and focus on reduction of water levels. And we must do all of this without ever compromising on our commitment to health, safety and well-being. So I'm looking forward to delivering another strong quarter to bring the year home and meeting many of you over the coming days, weeks and months. So with that, we're happy to take your questions.

[Operator Instructions] Your first question today comes from Daniel Morgan from Barrenjoey.

My first question just relates to Tailings Dam 4 at Golden Grove. Good to see it's approved and in execution. I'd just like to get a greater understanding of, if you can, in any way, quantify the benefit to your go-forward operating costs versus, say, a 2024 baseline, dollar millions perhaps. Just want to get some understanding of what the benefit is from a better tailing solution.

Yes. I'll take [indiscernible]. Maybe I'll start from capital intensity. So our TSF 3, the lift that we're currently depositing into, that was about an $8 million capital investment for 2 years' capacity. This facility is sort of circa $30 million for a broadly 10- to 15-year mine life. So from a -- I guess, from a capital intensity perspective, that's probably a 20% to 30% reduction per cubic meter of capacity. In terms of operating costs, that's probably a little bit trickier to answer. I'll probably respond by saying qualitatively, it's a much lower risk facility by its very nature, being thickened tailings. So you don't have the same level of systems of governance, which will enable the operations team to be sort of freed up and focus on other productive activities. But hopefully that gives you some flavor for the benefits.

Yes. Second question is, can I just understand the stockpiles available a bit better at the end of the quarter? I mean, if I look at Q2, for example, it looked like you had about 3,000 tonnes of copper and 5,000 tonnes of zinc. At that time, you produced but had not sold in that quarter. And then I look at this quarter, and it appears to me that 2,000 tonnes of that 3,000 tonnes was unwound, but a negligible amount of the zinc. My point here is can you just outline, I guess, a potential cash flow or working capital benefit or unwound at some point in the future?

Thanks very much. I'll take that one. It's Peter here. We had a -- I mean, in terms of sales for the quarter, we did have good volumes of zinc go out the door. So we would see that stockpiles largely normalized quarter-on-quarter. There's obviously always some left, but we did do a good job of making shipments and you see that reflected in the strong cash flows for the quarter. I think our focus here going forward at Golden Grove is to maintain that good proportion of Xantho Extended ore coming into the feed so that we can keep that run rate up in terms of production and sales and make that as consistent as possible quarter-on-quarter, which is always the challenge and the opportunity for a business like Golden Grove.

Okay. A question just on your copper concentrate terms. I'm talking about TCRCs here. Are you linked to benchmark prices? I'm just trying to understand if you might soon benefit from a reduction in TCRCs in 2025 at face value.

Yes, they are linked to the benchmark. And so you don't see an immediate reduction until that renegotiation of terms happens on an annual basis. So it's always difficult to predict how that moves. Obviously, spot prices are indicative, but not determinative of where the market is going. So, yes, as we see those contracts come up for renewal and that negotiation process conclude, we'll see that flowing through. Whether that be positive or negative, we always watch with interest, of course.

And last question, if I may. Just are you in discussions or negotiations with lenders regarding a revised debt facility or facilities?

Yes. Thanks, Dan. I think when we look at our facilities at the moment, and I think we've been relatively clear on this in the past, is that these were put in place in 2021. And since then the business has changed significantly in terms of the events at Capricorn Copper. But also, as we look forward to new opportunities for the business, whether that be Gossan Valley or other growth opportunities, we want to make sure the balance sheet is in the right place to support those initiatives. Our engagement with lenders continues to be strong. We speak with them regularly, and we're starting to speak to them about what the profile of the business should be as we go forward so we can accommodate our objectives and priorities as a business. So yes, we're starting those discussion, Daniel. From a timing perspective, we would see the next key milestone in terms of that senior debt profile to be the step down in the October -- in October of next year of the working capital facility, which is the thing that sort of drives us. That's not -- that's obviously not in the very near term, but we clearly want to get ahead of that as soon as we can. Your next question comes from Alex Papaioanou from Citi.

So the announcement noted progress made over the quarter on the surface insurance claim. Can you give some more color on the progress that was made and potential size and timing of the outstanding claim?

Yes, sure. It's Peter again here. I'm happy to talk to that. Naturally, discussions are, of course, pretty sensitive. So I can't give a sense of the quantum, but I'll try and do my best to talk to the kind of work that's happening in the background. So for a bit of context, we're through the period of indemnity cover post the loss event in 2023 -- March '23, that is. So to a large extent, we're talking about backwards-looking information here and there's a lot of work to go through that [ sit through ] the detail of that and considerable effort from the teams on site and in supporting functions as well as from the loss adjusters and the insurers themselves. That -- we've made really good progress on resolving much of the queries and we would see and assess that we're closer to the end of that process certainly than the beginning and start seeing touch the finish line. So we're pushing hard. I think everybody from all sides of that process concedes that this is a long process and everybody is keen to draw it to a conclusion as quickly as possible. And frankly, we're encouraged by the efforts of everybody to try and reach that conclusion. So good progress being made. We're hopeful to provide updates as soon as we can on what that looks like, but we'll wait and see what quantums are as we go through that discussion process and conclude any outstanding queries.

Yes. Okay. And in terms of the underground component, does full underground access need to be established for that claim to progress? Or what's holding that claim from progressing further?

It's a question of policy and whether there's alignment on what's covered under the policy or not. So it's not a -- it's not a question of the activity that the company is or isn't undertaking around that at present. It's more a case of whether the policy speaks to that, which we've -- I think we've disclosed in the past. So with -- the focus from our team and insurers is on advancing the service component of the claim as being a piece that's not in dispute. So look, as that process draws to a conclusion, there'll be more focus on the bits that remain unresolved at that point. So that's the likely progression from here and that should give you a sense of where our focus and effort is turning to at the moment.

Your next question comes from Ben Lyons from Jarden.

Just a couple of quick ones from me. Firstly, at Golden Grove, just observing some pretty significant variability in the development rates at Xantho Extended over the past few quarters. And that's probably consistent with the mine plan. But when you think about the sustainable development rate that's required to continue lifting that proportion of Xantho Extended ore that's in the mix, what sort of number do you think about on a monthly or quarterly basis for those development rates?

Yes, Ben, I might -- I'll [ throw that to Ed for the ] detail on that. But just when you're asking that question, it was certainly one of the things that I was looking for and getting down into Xantho, just having a look at the progress the team have made. Again, really good progress, I think, as Ed covered in the outset there. It is as per plan, because it's all around the ventilation as we do establish those new levels. So certainly making good progress and on the plan, reducing the variability across the board is something that we're shooting for at Xantho. And then maybe Ed on some of the detail of Ben's question.

Yes. Yes, so Q3, we had anticipated some lower activity levels because we were setting up the next infrastructure at the lower level. So we also probably did a bit more rehab in some of the operational areas of Gossan Hill and Scuddles. But in terms of responding to your question, look, I think the rates where we're at is where we need to be. Broadly, that might be sort of 3 to 4 kilometers per annum. That will drop off over the life of mine, [ though. I wouldn't say ]. But sort of near term, as long as we're maintaining those levels, we should sustain the proportion of Xantho ore in the mill feed.

Okay. Awesome. And just maybe more conceptually, now that you've got some additional development there at lower levels, what sort of constraints are you currently facing there? Is it still vent? Or is it your pace cycles or trucking? I know the bottleneck is probably constantly moving, but what's the current sort of constraint and challenge?

Yes, you're right. It'll be a mix. I mean, as we open up more stopes there'll always be pressure on backfill, Ben, just by nature of the stope sequence. So ensuring that we have the paste fill into the voids in a timely manner will drive availability of the next available source. And ultimately, trucking at depth, ventilation they're 2 key constraints. So we'll always look to see what we can do to improve that. There are enabling technologies on the horizon that we will look to explore. But ultimately, yes, ventilation, trucking and paste fill to turnaround stopes are the keys.

Okay. Cool. Maybe just quickly changing focus to Cap Copper. I think earlier this year, guidance was given for about $18 million of holding costs over the second half of the year. And just observing that $23 million was spent during the September quarter alone. Now, I might have missed an update between that March quarter, $18 million versus where we're currently at. But it seems like there's still a fair bit of cash outflow at Cap Copper as you're rehabbing. So just wondering what sort of level of cash outflow you're looking at in the December quarter.

Yes. Thanks, Ben. So we -- maybe just starting first, we spent about $18 million [ to ] $19 million in terms of costs for the quarter and the cash outflows of $23 million. So a little bit of working capital unwind from the prior quarters [Audio Gap]. In the June quarter, we did guide that expected costs for the rest of the year would be between $10 million and $15 million for -- sorry, $10 million to $15 million for capital costs and $20 million to $22 million for operating costs for the quarter. So that -- sorry, for the half, apologies. Apologies. So we're sort of on track to be within that guidance in terms of the December spend, if you take out the cost incurred for this quarter. And what I can say is that the focus at the moment is on reducing people [ and gear ], contractors from site as the projects to get us ready for the wet season come to completion, which they are in readiness from the 1st of November when the wet season officially starts. So that number remains our guidance and we're comfortable with tracking inside of that range.

Yes. And Peter, I might just -- Ben, I'll just add one more again, just being on site, some of that you can see, a, the work that the investment has bought us and, b, certainly from the previous time I was on site, you can just see the reduction in the project work just simple things like you'd count and that type of thing. So those costs certainly coming off.

Your next question comes from Adam Baker from Macquarie.

Just on Gossan Valley. Can you remind us what's outstanding on the permitting there? And are you going to be releasing an updated study to the market before proceeding with FID, noting that the last study was in late 2022?

In terms of the permitting, we submitted an application for that -- I remember, in the March quarter. So we would anticipate hearing back from the department probably early in the new year. So that's timing in terms of permit approval, works approval. In terms of updates, yes, look, I mean, we've been out to tender. We've got pricing in. A bit more further work. In terms of some of the technical supporting information, we will be updating with all those inputs in the future, yes.

Okay. So timing for potential optimization study would be first half in calendar 2025. Is that correct?

Probably earlier than that. We've -- I've got James bearing down, pushing me to get all that work completed. So it's currently work in progress. We're working as quickly as we can, probably not in a position to guide when, but I would say it'd be sooner than what you indicated.

Yes. [Audio Gap] pushing the team, everything that [Audio Gap] it looks like a good project. We're certainly looking to bring that forward, not push it back.

And maybe on Golden Grove and what you're seeing with the workforce there. I've seen a number of redundancies in the mining sector in different commodities over the last 12 months. Are you seeing it easier to get workers on site? Are you seeing some of those positions getting filled quicker? Just a quick comment around that, please.

Yes, I'll take that one. I would say yes. I think we've had some challenges over the year in terms of availability of labor from time to time, be that underground operators on trucks or securing technical professionals. But I think we're certainly on the technical professionals, well placed at the moment, and we are seeing a reprieve in terms of availability of operators. So always challenging, but I think at the moment we're probably positioned better than we have been over the calendar year.

[Operator Instructions] Your next question comes from Daniel Roden from Jefferies.

I just wanted to better understand, I guess, some of the optionality at Capricorn Copper. Can you maybe just walk us through again the time line for the, I guess, the permitting, development and operations of some tailings, I guess, considerations? So which options have -- what time frames on them? And when can we expect those to be executed?

Yes, Daniel, I'll take it from a high level and then hand to Ed for any additional detail. I mean, the first thing is we've been making it really clear internally as well as externally and working with government and regulators. It's all [Audio Gap] water. That is the critical path. So that's definitely been the focus of the team. But then the next 2, as we said, water treatment plant. Yes, there's been some progression. But again, back to some of the -- how do we reduce holding costs. We're reducing work on those things that aren't critical path. So long-term water treatment and then long-term tailings. With the tailings, as we said last quarter, we've got the opportunity that the suspension brings us to have a look at other options, obviously, and we put that in the last quarter, TSF 3 being the most mature. But actually, we've got a couple of other options there that could be lower cost, but they're less mature from a permitting perspective. But focus, particularly when we're talking to anyone in government, Coordinator-Generals or DESI or otherwise, it's all around releasing water in the wet season, which normally starts at the end of next week. But Ed, anything you want to add?

I think the other comment I'd make is just in terms of the site water inventory, what we've said is we think it's likely it will be more than one wet season to get the site water balance to a level where we think supports restart of the operation. So hopefully, that gives you an indication of time line. And in that time line, that enables us to, in parallel, progress options for tailings.

Yes. Okay. I guess I'm just trying to look at it from the perspective of how much cash could you be able to build ahead of that because restarting the asset is going to take a fair amount of capital. So maybe what's the -- FY '25 has been -- sorry, calendar year '24 is being guided to, but 2025, like what's the normalized care and maintenance cost for copper not being in production?

We're going through the budgeting process at the moment for next year and beyond. What I'd say what you're looking at the moment in terms of spend rate is obviously investment to get the site ready to release water. So that's -- to a large extent, those are one-off investments. And then that'll be about maintaining the site through that and managing the water levels through that infrastructure. So certainly, investment at the moment is high, and we're looking to step that down as we go into 2025, but not in a position to give guidance on that at this stage.

Okay. Maybe just last one. The Capricorn Copper stockpiles that are being toll treated. Can you just give an indication on maybe what the opportunity is there, like quantifying in terms of cash flows?

Yes. I mean, to be clear, not huge. It's 40,000 tonnes of material at about 1.5% copper. So you can do some back of the envelope calcs as to what that could look like on a toll trading basis. But I think single-digit millions type of result here. It's not life changing in that sense.

Your next question comes from David Radclyffe from Global Mining Research.

So my question is on Golden Grove. And when you look at the volumes, you need a strong current quarter to meet the low end of guidance for both ore mined and ore milled compared to that tonnage guidance you've put out there. So could you maybe talk to the confidence in achieving this and how the quarter started?

Yes. So a couple of comments from me on that one, I guess. As I alluded to earlier in terms of some of the operator availability challenges in the WA context over the calendar year in terms of managing TKMs, that's probably been a challenge for us in terms of moving the volumes. So we have focused the available TKMs on the highest grade material at depth, being Xantho Extended. We also did incur some remote loads, bolting stopes in the second quarter. But in terms of Q4, everything is going well. In terms of delivery for the grade we need to produce the metal. I would say volumes on a full year basis are going to definitely be at the low end of the guidance range though.

Okay. And then maybe as a follow-up, looking to next year's volumes, given that we're at the low end this year. And obviously, you're anticipating Xantho Extended to step up. But do we still something like approaching that 1.6 million rate that's been put out in the past is achievable in '25?

Yes. I mean, that will always be our aspirational target. I think last calendar year being 2023, we probably achieved about 1.5 million or a bit over 1.5 million, 1.55 million. It just depends on the vagaries of the operational challenges that we encounter during the year, availability of people and the like, but that will always be our target to try and maximize volumes and keep the mill full.

Your next question comes from Timothy Hoff from Canaccord.

Just looking to dive into the question around concentrate volumes that Dan was looking at before. I guess noting that you've opened up a new sort of mining front at Xantho Extended where you've got a big change in the constituents of ore. Have you seen any contaminants or deleterious elements that are impacting your concentrate qualities? And is that perhaps a read-through to your TCRCs that seem to have changed quite a bit this quarter?

No sense that there's any deleterious materials coming through impacting that. On the TCRCs, absolutely higher this quarter than the previous quarter. What you're seeing in TCRCs is a couple of things. One is a higher proportion of zinc in the sales mix, which always typically attracts a higher TC. In addition, more sales went to pre-IPO offtake contracts, where there is a link in the TC to the zinc price escalators. And so we've had strong continuing zinc prices, which has impacted those. So very much a function of existing contractual terms around offtake and a higher production and sales of zinc during the quarter, not -- nothing to do with the quality of the concentrate itself.

And those pre-IPO offtakes, have they got a drop-dead date? Or do they roll off at any point [indiscernible]?

Yes, they're fixed tonnages. So we will be delivering 100,000 tonnes into that this year. And over the balance of the next 2 years, there's 140,000 left to go. The escalator does improve over the next -- over that outlook period as well. So we would expect that holding price constant to be less as we go forward. But yes, that -- so yes, we would see that dropping down. And as we look to ramp up production in zinc over the coming years as well, it obviously becomes a lower proportion of the overall sales too.

[Operator Instructions] As there are no further questions at this time, I'll now hand back to Mr. Palmer for any closing remarks.

Great. Thank you. Yes. Well, thanks for the time. Thanks for the questions. From our side yet another strong quarter of delivery delivered. And we certainly hit the ground running for this last quarter to bring home the year and deliver guidance. So I think you can see the potential for the next 2 years at 29Metals to be quite different to the last 2. So thanks. Have a safe and productive day.

That does conclude our conference for today. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.