AbbVie Inc. ($ABBV)

All right. We're just about at time. So we can kick off our next session with AbbVie. Very excited to have the whole AbbVie management team over here with us, Rob Michael, CEO; Scott Reents, CFO and Roopal Thakkar, CSO. Thank you all for being with us today.

Great to be with you.

So Rob, maybe starting with you with a big picture question. Just to sort of like high level, frame for us for AbbVie today as we look out to the next 5 to 10 years, how do you expect the complexion of the company to evolve with respect to therapeutic areas, business lines and potential new pillars of growth?

Like I think what you're seeing is a continuation of the strategy where we've talked about a quick return to growth. We hit our peak sales last year, just 2 years after the U.S. HUMIRA LOE with, I'd say, like 4 like strong growth drivers for the company. Immunology, clearly, I mean, SKYRIZI [indiscernible] the potential that we [indiscernible], right? And so -- and we see significant runway for that. I'd say in oncology, and I like to have Roopal speak to some of the pipeline I think we should really get into the pipeline. So maybe I'll have you talk a little bit about the pipeline in oncology.

Yes. Just coming out of ASCO as exciting time, a lot of interesting development, PD-1 VEGF space, KRAS space, and these are both areas that we're participating in, in particular, combination approaches with our ADC portfolio. We saw a very nice data with Temab-A that's our c-Met targeting agent with a topo warhead, stable linker. We saw new data in head and neck cancer and ovarian. And both of these areas are places we see we can start moving towards dose optimization and pivotal designs in ovarian. We see that complementary to our FR alpha approach with Elahere and in head and neck, that's a unique approach that we see even in the future is a combination with PD-1 VEGF, which is the RemeGen asset that we have now. also can play in ovarian. We also showed very good data with intent in multiple myeloma, acknowledging that we're behind in the BCMA space However, having a potential outpatient option with a single step up, getting to maximal dose immediately and having a one-one option right away is an exciting time, and we showed very strong data there with a single dose of tocilizumab taking CRS to 0%, which is very unique in the BCMA space. So coming in later with a strong profile could still allow for differentiation. We anticipate Phase III data later this year.

I mean I think it's really important, and the reason I want to highlight oncology is as the company we don't get enough credit there. And I look at the shape and you asked the question of the shape of the company as they think about in 10 years' time, oncology is going to be a very important player for us. So we will be leaders in immunology for a long time. We had emerging pipeline in oncology. We're the largest player in neuroscience, really across, I'd say, 3 pillars today that can each contribute in excess of $5 billion peak if you think about psych, think about migraine, Parkinson's, we have program in neurodegeneration with Alzheimer's. We have an aesthetics business that we think has strategically can play an important role with the growth in obesity. And so we see like 4 areas plus obesity as being the key growth drivers for the company, but I wanted Roopal to talk about the pipeline in oncology because we just had ASCO. We're not getting enough questions on it [indiscernible].

We have a lot of questions on that, don't worry, we're going to get that. We're going to get there. But before, Rob, before we get there, I mean, you're talking about oncology and other areas outside of SKYRIZI and the immunology concentration. So maybe that's a good segue in terms of just business development right? This is a question, and I'm sorry to ask you, you've been probably asked this multiple times in many different ways, but I'm going to do it again, just to get your latest sort of thoughts on that on just how are you thinking about deploying capital into later stage or even revenue-generating assets. It sounded like on the first quarter call, you opened the aperture a little bit. on being more open to those types of deals. So update us on your latest thinking as it relates to the BD lever.

Yes. I would say it's less about opening the aperture. It's more about being, I think, clear in our intentions because I would say there's probably a misconception that we were not open to, I'd say, later stage or on-market opportunities. And look, strategically for the company, we have the growth drivers we need to drive top-tier growth well into the next decade. And so you've seen us over the last 2-plus years, execute transactions expanding about $8 billion in capital to really pipeline for growth drivers for the company beyond SKYRIZI and Rinvoq, so I think next decade and beyond. And so that's why we've been very active with new mechanisms in immunology, TL1A, TRIM 1, IRAK-4 and then the in vivo CAR T platform with Capstan that gives us a B-cell depletion approach that could lead to functional cures. We're thinking about the growth in immunology wil SKYRIZI and RINVOQ, that's what really motivated the external innovation we brought in immunology. In oncology, there, you've seen us with trispecific TCEs in multiple myeloma, IGI SIMS, also the PD-1 VEGF with RemeGen the KRAS inhibitor with Control. I mean, those were all transactions, again, as we think about what we have in our pipeline, how do we complement that with external innovation to drive growth in oncology -- in Neuroscience, obviously, we had the serial transaction a couple of years ago, but I'm very excited about bretisilocin, the cycloplatigen from Gilgamesh and the transformative potential it has in depression. Obviously, we're excited about emraclidine from Cerevel. We did the Aliada deal a couple of years ago to give us that brain shuttle with the next-generation A-beta antibody in Alzheimer's. And then obviously, the deal we did with Gubra to enter into obesity, and we see that as an area of high unmet need where we can -- we saw an opportunity differentiation. We also saw it as an opportunity within aesthetics. And then I also strategically think about it from a there's a cost to not participate in this space. And the cross therapeutic benefits, as we think about combinations in immunology, migraine, there's a lot of potential with these obesity assets in the therapeutic space beyond just weight loss. And so that's why we pursued those transactions was to add a lot of depth to our pipeline as I think about growth in the next decade and beyond. That's not to say that if we see something that's compelling within the verticals we participate in, and so I think immunology, oncology, neuroscience and aesthetics, plus really building out obesity, those are the areas that we're focused on. If there's something that is a near-term revenue driver and we think we can drive value there and it's differentiated, that's really important. It has to be differentiated in our eyes. We've seen a lot of transactions in this space. We've looked at a lot of these opportunities. We didn't see the differentiation that convinced us to pursue them. That said, if we see it, we have plenty of financial wherewithal to execute those transactions. And so my intent on the call was to be more clear because there was this -- I felt there was a perception that we were not willing to pursue near-term revenue drivers. We are absolutely willing to do it. You can very well see us do that. But there was a reason why we transact the way we did in the last couple of years was to add depth of the pipeline to drive growth beyond this decade because we have a kind of a very clear line of sight to top tier growth well into the early part of the next decade.

I want to just stick with obesity for a second because that's been a very dynamic area. We've just come off of ADA. There's a lot going on, particularly in the 2028 time frame with the new entrants coming monthly higher efficacy agents such as reditutride. So just maybe double-click a little bit more on the framing you just laid out on the market and where you see the light spaces or the commercial opportunities that still remain untapped. And maybe, Roopal, I can bring you into that as well.

Why should I can start. So much of what we've seen play out, whether it was near term now or since we did the deal for Gubra is largely what we anticipated, higher efficacy agents for sure stretching out durability, duration. And that's something that we think we can continue to differentiate even what we've seen today, meaning even with high efficacy agents that you see in the clinical trial setting, despite that, when you see them on market, they tend not to last very long. So we don't anticipate more than 1/3 -- more than 70% of patients actually falling off a therapy after a year despite higher efficacy because you still have the adverse event profiles with some of the newer agents, now you're involving skin adverse events. So that's going to continue to put pressure on adherence over long term and to realize the full benefits of weight loss, we think duration and durability are key -- that's why the Amylin class made a lot of sense for us. So as we move this forward, we've seen a 10% delta thus far, and that was in a setting that was a BMI of 29 and mostly men's. So not really a setting where 1 would see an optimization of weight loss. So as we go Phase Ib and Phase II we'll see the BMIs in the 35 and up, and more women engaged in a and we actually studied in the Phase I setting and monthly dosing with -- coupled with long -- with a strong adverse event profile or favorable profile, we should be able to drive greater durability in the future. And as Rob said, we're still interested in other external assets if we think there to be a good fit. And also what we see playing out from an access and pricing standpoint is largely what we predicted, moving into a cash pay segment, and that is, I would say, a very nice fit with our ongoing strategy and work and aesthetics, where we have very deep and strong relationships with these centers that are talking to many patients on a daily basis and talking about their full aesthetics journey, which includes weight loss, which includes volume loss solutions, toxin wrinkle solutions, skin quality solutions. So for us to be into that market, it's a very strong fit for us to provide that channel of offerings of course the aesthetic across the aesthetics journey and obesity is a perfect place for us to be in and, again, fully anticipating the newer entrants along with the pricing dynamics..

And I think in aesthetics, in particular, having that additional element of the portfolio always helps, right? I think a lot of our customers are looking for that portfolio offering. And so it has a natural fit. I think Gruber, frankly, was interested in partnering with us because of the aesthetics channel. So we can certainly leverage that. But I see it as again, building around the -- think about a combination approach, there's multiple segments in this category. There's a lot of places you can play. But also as we think about how does it play in other therapeutic areas, as I mentioned, immunology, neuroscience there's -- as we look at this opportunity, it's more than just about weight loss.

A compelling fit, again, with the SKYRIZI, let's say, in psoriasis, most of the patients are overweight and hydrate semen, but overwhelming majority of patients that are higher weight. So these are the other combination pro I want that we can consider.

I want to get to those combos, but maybe back to you, Rob, 1 last sort of high level one. And Scott, you've been waiting patiently. I do have -- I do want to bring you into the conversation. But Rob for you, just -- we're asking all of our companies this just in terms of the external operating environment for the industry broadly. You've got the midterms coming up, you've got some regulatory uncertainty with the FDA vacuum attempts to codify MFN. These deals are going to expire in a couple of years. Let's see if that happens. So what are you, Rob, paying close attention to in terms of what you're watching? Are there any Badan appeals out there that we should be aware of in terms of M&A or drug pricing that could -- we could skit around that I just found the cone.

So clearly, 2025 was a very active year of the industry engaging with the White House. And I think we're pleased that we're able to reach an agreement that recognized improving patient access and affordability while also protecting the U.S. innovation ecosystem. And that was an important part of the conversation was we have an industry now that is producing, I think, some very compelling next-generation medicines and you don't want to disrupt that. So how do you strike that balance? And so as an industry, I think we landed in a fairly good place. But what needs to continue to happen and what we've been working with U.S. trade on is addressing the unfair practices in Europe. I mean the idea of most favorite nations, you have to have that complement of, well, you're also addressing the unfair practices outside the U.S. And the companies by themselves cannot accomplish that. We need the administration's help. And so we've been actively communicating with U.S. trade on ways that we can address that. So I'd say that is certainly top of mind. It's something we're continuing to work on. Clearly, I think in terms of on the policy front, you've seen a lot of activity around 340B, and we've been very vocal about the abuse that's happening in 340B I think the entire industry, we're all tracking a little differently. But again, a high level of engagement, I was encouraged that the administration recognized that the issue there. There was talk of having a pilot. There's obviously more to do on that front, but I'd say that's another area. As it relates to codifying MFN, I mean we're clearly across the industry, we will all say that's bad policy. And so there is a level of advocacy work being done to ensure that, that doesn't happen again. We don't want to destroy the U.S. innovation ecosystem. So I'd say those are the main things that we're focused on with the primary 1 being how do we address the unfair practices outside the U.S.

Okay. Scott, let's bring you in. Talk to us about business trends, high level, we're sort of deep into the quarter now. Any trends that stand out across the portfolio that you'd like to highlight? Just wanted to give...

Look, I think from a trend perspective, if you look at our guidance for the year, if you look at our first quarter results, a very strong first quarter. double-digit growth, SKYRIZI and RINVOQ, the many years into the launch, they're still growing and based on our guidance at 23%, both of them are. If you look at the results we end the first quarter, we exceeded by $300 million. We raised guidance on a full year basis. [ 100 ] to SKYRIZI, 100 to RINVOQ. So that continued momentum that we're seeing in neuroscience continues to grow very well also. It's growing 17% as an area as a whole. It's really broad-based growth that we're seeing there. And I think when you look at our top line growth, it's actually right at 10% reported. So double-digit reported growth just over 9% operationally. And so we're seeing very strong momentum across the business. Certainly, there's more competition in certain areas as an area with SKYRIZI that we've seen the competition. We've modeled that competition very carefully and we feel very comfortable with our guidance that we've had. And I think as you look at from -- another thing that I think we're doing well is growing earnings. We're growing earnings over 14% this year. So we are being efficient with our investment, but we're also investing with an eye to the future.

I mentioned earlier that we achieved a new peak sales just 2 years after the U.S. MR LOE last year, but we're out here in the next year, delivering double-digit top line and bottom line growth. in the face of competition. I mean, when you think about SKYRIZI and RINVOQ growing in excess of 20% in the on the market despite the entry of more competitors, it just shows that the power of that franchise. And so we're very pleased, but not just with the force in immunology, but we see like in neuroscience, again, we'll be the leading neuroscience company this year when you look at the overall portfolio. growing high teens, with tremendous growth potential there. And so I think we're very pleased with the I look at the business in the first quarter, every single growth area met or exceeded expectations. And so I think we've had a very nice broad-based strong performance.

And then I guess to that point, Rob, you provided some additional color on the first quarter earnings call on how your internal forecast, specifically for SKYRIZI and RINVOQ compared versus consensus, and that was very well received by investors. I guess any update on potentially providing another midterm guidance in the future? And under what circumstances might that be?

Yes. So we never provide midterm guidance. I'll just clarify, provided long-term guidance ahead of the U.S. HUMIRA LOE because if you think about the circumstances then, to give investors a picture of what the company will look like on the other side of the industry's largest LOE, it felt appropriate to give fairly granular long-term guidance. It's very unprecedented, really, no one gives that level of detail on long-term numbers, right? But we felt it was important to help investors understand what the company looks like on the other side of, again, an unprecedented loss of exclusivity event. Now I'd say the line of sight is very clear. I mean it's a much easier business to model as you think about no significant LOEs this decade. VRAYLAR coming in 2030, but like I'd say, a clear line of sight to growth well into the next decade. And so now it's really about -- as we see, and I did on the first quarter call, we see where the Street consensus is off. that's typically what we see companies do. That seems to fit. I think going out with very specific long-term guidance under the circumstances, doesn't make a lot of sense. But I will say, as we looked at the models, it was clear to us that we see SKYRIZI and RINVOQ, in our estimates, exceeding the peak potential that's modeled by -- the Street. We wanted to point that out. Also in neuroscience, and I go -- I've mentioned I've got 3 verticals that you think about them as $5 billion or plus -- and each one of them actually has modeled around $4 billion. So like VRAYLAR, we've said, approaching $5 billion, the streets of $4 billion, migraine exceeding $5 billion at streets of $4 billion, Parkinson's exceeding $5 billion at Street of $4 billion. So each of them is up by $1 billion. So we felt the need to highlight that. And then I would also add, and that's why I wanted Roopal to get words on oncology because the Street is not modeling our oncology pipeline appropriately. It's -- we are very excited about both, particularly Temab-A, etentamig, not to mention 969 and 706, but -- those 2 assets, Atena and Temab-A are multibillion-dollar peak potential assets. And right now, sell-side has each of them around $1 billion. And so there are clear upside opportunities. And so expect us to talk in those terms versus going out with a very specific long-term guidance again because the circumstances have changed.

All right. Let's start digging into some of the pipeline stuff group. I will come back to oncology, but we've touched on it already, but maybe just starting with immunology and IBD and some of the competitive readouts that you've had over the past few months that you alluded to with respect to Skyrizi and RINVOQ market, you've had the JNJ DUET program. You've had and that was in UC and IBD -- you've had Spies readouts. You have Abivax Phase III, you see maintenance data. So I guess how are you high level viewing these developments with respect to Skyrizi and RINVOQ and your overall development program. .

Sure. Maybe starting with IBD and then we can add TL1A into the mix that you brought in -- when we step back and look at that emerging landscape, we've yet to really see differentiation from where we're at with SKYRIZI and RINVOQ how those are positioned as SKYRIZI is in the frontline in ulcerative colitis and Crohn's. And you see very strong data there and very strong share. And then RINVOQ as its label has evolved, starting last year, our teams are now getting into the field talking about that independently of SKYRIZI, and you'll see more of that this year where physicians now have the flexibility to use RINVOQ not necessarily always after an anti-TNF, but after a biologic if they feel it's appropriate. So that is a much stronger fit with SKYRIZI in the front line and RINVOQ immediately after that for the patients that is felt to be appropriate, and we're seeing that starting to play out. So that's in ulcerative lites and Crohn's. And when I reflect on some of the assets that you talked about in TL1A, they still don't differentiate when I think about our 12 sort of punch in IBD in front line and second line. Now because of that lack of differentiation, the question is, where can 1 go to break the efficacy ceiling barrier. And our strategy starting a few years ago, was to combine with a safe asset that's highly efficacious, which is SKYRIZI as an anti-IL-23, very familiar. And we -- first foray into that combination was a unique alpha 4 beta 7, this is not a simple extension of half-life with an existing molecule is a molecule or alpha-4-beta-7 named ABBV-382 have 3 to 4x potency, better binding affinity than an existing alpha-4-beta-7 vedolizumab. And we chose not to silence the Fc tail and left it active. And that's consistent with our anti-TNF that did quite well in BD, which is HUMIRA, which had a wild-type Fc and not distiller to REMICADE. And what we saw there in the combination was a doubling effect, not in ulcerative colitis, which is where 1 would think an alpha 4 beta 7 would shine, it's actually in Crohn's disease where we've seen failures in Crohn's -- and we saw a doubling effect when you combine 382 and SKYRIZI for endoscopic remission, which is the most important endpoint in predicting long-term outcomes in patients with Crohn's disease. And the other unique finding there beyond the doubling, which the team is very excited about is a lack of plateauing of effect for 382. So what we will do next based on that finding is test a higher dose of 382 along in combination with SKYRIZI very rapidly here and bringing in our TL1A as part of combinations, not just in Crohn's, but in ulcerative colitis. So those 4 sets of studies will be kicking off very soon. Hope it's enabled us to move into Phase III very rapidly with optimized dose to maximize efficacy and the safety profile that we have observed have been very favorable. So that's in IBD and in psoriasis, as we see emerging competition, we have the current profile of SKYRIZI, which is very strong with quarterly dosing, head-to-toe efficacy, scalp genital polymer planter, statistical significance across the board, extremely strong data in psoriatic arthritis extending now to 5 years, showing limited x-ray progression and soon pediatric indications as part of that expansion. We see that already as a very strong continued competitor in the physicians and patients that already know very well, and that quarterly is already very convenient and even the existing SKYRIZI data, if you take it every 6 months, you still see 60% preservation of efficacy. That being said, we do have a longer-acting agent in the IL-23 class that's entered into the clinic, which we feel can also support extended durability and potentially even higher efficacy if we test a little bit higher dose early on. And as we round out immunology, we're also very enthusiastic of our B-cell depletion platform, which includes the CD19 depleting antibody-drug conjugate with glucagon receptor modulator, naked version of that antibody and then the very exciting lipid nanoparticle, target liquid medical particle approach which is from Capstan, which is an mRNA approach, which we can provide without lymphodepletion dosing that observing depletion and healthy is now pivoting that into patients in rheumatology, including rheumatoid arthritis, sclerosis, Sjögren's, lupus. So that -- we'll see some data out of that B-cell platform, hopefully, later this year, earlier this year in patients and then rapidly moving into dose optimization and Phase III program. So we have a very comprehensive, I would say, replacement strategy for RINVOQ and SKYRIZI many, many years before we would see a loss of exclusivity, especially with RINVOQ, which is out to 2037 and obviously, our attorneys and scientists have a patent estate with SKYRIZI and are working to do and evaluate a similar strategy that we saw with RINVOQ.

So -- and I would say it also informs how we're thinking about business development. It was -- when we look at this business, like we did for SKYRIZI and RINVOQ, we elevate the standard of care to replace HUMIRA. That's what we're pursuing here, we think combination approaches can deliver that higher efficacy to replace SKYRIZI and RINVOQ on book, which is why we did -- in the case of L4 beta 7, we had our own we acquired a TL1A, we acquired a TRM -- that was really the driver of that as we thought about this combination approach, other mechanisms that we don't have in-house that we need to go bring in, and that's why we executed those deals.

And I guess on the alpha 4 beta 7, that does seem to be an asset that's starting to get more investor mind share. You guys talked about it at some detail on the first quarter earnings call. Roopal, you're beginning the Phase IIb shortly and you're talking about evaluating a potential accelerated Phase III. Talk to us about the trial design. What can you tell us in terms of what the Phase III might look like in terms of endpoints and the control arm and...

that's right. Well, I think 1 thing is important to consider is a patient population, which is how we're thinking about it is very broad. And what we saw in the early data was 8% of those patients had a failure of an advanced therapy, including 60% of them, which was on mechanism failure. So we have vedolizumab failures and SKYRIZI failures in the study -- in fact, 20% of those failures actually had progressed on RINVOQ. So you see a very broad population -- and our observation that lines of therapy will continue to expand in immunology and notably in IBD where you go from front line, second line, third line and beyond. So we want to be able to cover all of those patients, including the treatment-naive patient population, where in IBD, 1 may consider using high-efficacy agents very early because you do not want ongoing damage, which would include tissue loss and ulcerative colitis, if you don't control inflammation sometimes immediately could result in a colectomy. So that would be the patient population. Key endpoints are endoscopic in nature. Those are the core market value drivers where we've seen great success when we talk about RINVOQ and SKYRIZI in the field, that's what's most likely to resonate with prescribers as endoscopic improvement and remission. So that would be a core endpoint. And comparators -- from a safety standpoint, regulators may require placebo. So you could see some placebo-controlled trials and likely selected head-to-head, although we have to be mindful of there really isn't a comparator to this combo because we've been able to treat patients that have failed virtually every other therapy. But that's obviously top of mind as these go forward. And the goal for us to accelerate. That combination with alpha 4 beta 7 moving into pivotals as quickly as possible. And then looking at the TL1A in combination with SKYRIZI, again, Crohn's and ulcerative colitis, both moving ahead and we anticipate subcutaneous dosing and monthly or potentially further extensions of that. But the key to this isn't necessarily convenience in IBD it is efficacy, efficacy and then tolerability and then convenience because we want to preserve tissue.

Okay. Well, maybe let's shift the lens back now to oncology coming off of ASCO, and we've talked about some of this already. This remains another very dynamic area, lots going on in the industry. this year's ASCO was dominated by RAS, PD-1 VEGF, ADCs. You've got a lot of your own earlier stage assets that you've talked about. I guess, first, maybe just on the PDF. We touched on this RemeGen drug earlier, but just how has your thinking on this class changed at all? -- in terms of some of the data that you saw at ASCO, the discussion from the Harmony 6 trial, like some of the cold water the cheese rule. Maybe just up, I'd love to hear from you on how you're thinking about sort of putting the [indiscernible] together.

It's been a difficult challenge to develop in the I/O pace and to really firmly displace PD-1 therapies. But we were very encouraged with what we saw I know there are some discussions in subgroups and different patient populations and how that would match to Western populations. But that's something we believe is very valid at this stage to go on and continue to study -- and we like the RemeGen molecule very much from a preclinical standpoint, from a binding standpoint on the PD-1 side of VEGF side, the behavior characteristics are all very strong. We've seen emerging data in non-small cell lung cancer in non-squamous and squamous -- and we'll be rolling out that data currently anticipated at the World Lung meeting. And I would say we're already starting to think about potentially even accelerating, moving that into Phase III with chemo combinations. In addition to further behind ADC combinations, with Tab A based on the profile that's starting to emerge. Again, more to come at World Lung, but we might be able to enter that much faster than we originally anticipated. So keep an eye out for that. And then the combinations of our approach across some of these indications, head and neck, ovarian, CRC could be another area as well as lung combinations in non-small cell. And then on small cell, departing from Temab-A and c-Met, where we've seen very strong data and movement into Phase III in CRC. We're seeing extremely strong data in small cell lung cancer, but we provided at ASCO in terms of the second-line population there, 82% ORR, median OS of 14 months, largely unprecedented at this stage in Phase III now about to initiate in relapsed/refractory small cell lung cancer. And then combinations with PD-L1 and T cell engagers and potentially PD-1 VEGF. So we have large and deep opportunities referencing back to what Rob stated earlier, which is our core strategic focus in gaining depth that's in small cell lung cancer because we have our own DLL3 TCE in addition to the PD-1 VEGF. And then you have the KRAS in there with combinations with Temab-A in pancreatic cancer down the road, potentially lung and potentially CRC as well currently in monotherapy today. And the one I know we're running out of time that we should keep -- everyone, I would say, keep a close eye on is 969 steep dual targeting agent in prostate cancer with our stable [indiscernible]. This is in prostate cancer. And that's the 1 where we showed a 67% reduction and 45% ORR and PFS 15 months, and this is in fifth line plus -- so this is really even unprecedented when we even look at radioligand therapy, a totally different later population. Our goal here is to rapidly move into Phase III and go right directly at chemotherapy in that second and third line which has not been done yet successfully with radioligand therapy. So that can be a differentiator. And we're going to start combining with androgen receptor pathway right away. So that could be another very large opportunity that we haven't even really spent a lot of time talking about.

I can certainly see that. Well, that's probably a great place to wrap up since we're a little bit over -- it sounds like this, we should probably do a deep dive on the oncology side and we could spend the whole hour on it. But thank you very much. Rob, Roopal and Scott for being with us. Very helpful updates. Really appreciate your participation on this call.

Thank you.

Thank you.