Acast AB (publ) (ACAST) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Hi, and welcome to Acast's Earnings Call for the Third Quarter of 2024. Today, we have our CEO, Ross Adams; and CFO, Emily Villatte, who will present the results and development for the quarter. You're welcome to submit questions during the session using the form below and we will make sure to answer them in the Q&A session that will be held after the presentation. I would now like to kick off the call by handing over to our CEO, Ross Adams.

Hi, and thank you to everyone for listening in. My name is Ross Adams, and I'm the CEO of Acast, now based out of New York, where I've been living the past 2 years and actually where we both are today. I'll take you through our Q3 development and recent events and our CFO, Emily Villatte, who's also on the call, will take you through our financial performance in more detail. For those of you who are new to Acast, we are the market-leading independent global infrastructure platform for podcasts, uniquely positioned at the center of the podcasting value chain, and we connect advertisers with podcast creators who want to monetize their content and their highly engaged audiences. So essentially, we are the interconnected ecosystem, bringing together creators who produce compelling content to attract listeners using their creativity to build a loyal audience base. This high-quality content attracts audiences who are eager to consume it. Sizable and engaged audiences are highly attractive to advertisers seeking and paying for efficient reach and engagement at scale. And we underpin this with the widest data set in podcasting through our data company, Podchaser. Its data on 4 million shows allows us to drive discovery for podcasts amongst advertisers, matchmaking between advertisers and audiences and revenue for both creators and Acast. And we are in the middle of this value chain, helping advertisers to access these highly engaged podcast audiences across the globe, and we share the advertising revenue we generate with the podcast creators on our platform. And in building the world's most valuable podcasting marketplace, we have established a portfolio of over 135,000 podcasts, generating more than 1 billion listens per quarter. And we work with around 2,700 advertisers consisting of both global brands and smaller companies, and we allow them to reach these listeners with effective and creative advertising campaigns via Acast's marketplace. We foster and grow relationships with podcasters of all audience sizes and types around the world. And our portfolio of podcast creators ranges from some of the biggest personalities, including Pernilla Wahlgren and Sofia Wistam and Peg and Penny Parnevik to established news publishers like The Economist and CNN. In this quarter, we've welcomed Pionaire Network featuring shows like The Bert Show, which is a top 50 comedy show here in the U.S., along with Toni and Ryan, which is an Australian show with over 3 million monthly listens. And we were also joined by former Westlife Popstar, Nicky Byrne in Ireland, which launched straight into the Top 10. And in the U.K., we've also re-signed valuable partners such as the High Performance Network. Of course, we also support niche shows of all types who bring them their dedicated communities. This diverse range of content allows us to connect advertisers with the creators and audiences that perfectly match their needs. So what is the common thread across this content? Well, these creators all choose Acast to help them find and grow audience and earn revenue from advertisers of all sizes. But how do we differ from other companies operating within the podcast ecosystem? Well, we are the podcast pioneers. We created the commercial podcast market as we know it today when we invented dynamic ad insertion back in 2014, which has been the foundation of the entire podcast advertising industry globally. With over a decade of experience, we continue to lead the industry with technology, content and data. And we have unmatched scale and exclusivity. Our network boasts more than 135,000 exclusive shows reaching diverse audiences across 200-plus advertising markets. And this unparalleled reach, combined with sales teams on the ground in 16 markets provides advertisers with a unique advantage. With this large supply of podcast shows to match the advertiser's demand, we have established a formidable moat. And we're the innovation leaders, and we're consistently first to market with groundbreaking technologies like contextual targeting, AI-driven targeting and first-party data onboarding, offering advertisers the industry's most comprehensive toolkit. And we offer reliable measurement, and we provide trusted industry-leading measurement solutions to track results across the entire marketing funnel. Our data set is the best in podcasting, boosted by owning the podcast industry's most comprehensive database Podchaser. And we go beyond the podcast. We're podcast first, but not podcast only. We have the capabilities to deliver effective 360 omnichannel campaigns incorporating social media, video, live events and so much more. And this enables us to deliver greater audience reach and scale beyond just our podcasting marketplace. So simply put, Acast empowers podcast creators with global reach, strong monetization and cutting-edge technology, all at a scale unmatched in the industry. Looking at our development during the third quarter of 2024, we grew by 12% to reach revenues of SEK 475 million in the quarter. Organic growth was 14%. The growth was primarily driven by North America where we managed to grow revenues by 29% despite tough comparison quarter last year, showing that our investments in the region continue to pay off. And the gross margin was a record 40%, which is 5 percentage points higher than the same quarter last year, positively affected by product mix and efficient yield management. And together with maintained cost discipline, the development has allowed us to continue delivering large profitability improvements. In Q3, we generated EBITDA profits of SEK 16 million, reflecting a 3% margin. And the financial performance is a clear testament of our commitment to profitable growth. Let's have a look at some of the -- some of our innovation in ad targeting. We leverage Podchaser's comprehensive podcast database to ensure advertisers' ads reach their perfect audience. And here are 3 examples of how we do this. Our AI-powered targeting capability, Collections+, which uses AI to categorize podcasts into even more precise sales verticals based on the widest data set in podcasting. It has more than doubled the number of verticals the average show appears in, adding over 4,000 shows to new targeting categories. And as a result, since the launch of Collections+ in September 2023, it has enabled 24% more Acast creators to earn ad revenue. And by ensuring ads reach the right audience more effectively, Collections+ delivers better value for advertisers and creates more revenue opportunities for podcasters. Collections+ has rapidly gained traction and now deployed in over half of Acast advertising buys. And this success demonstrates our commitment to audience-first buying behaviors and has significantly improved our gross margin through increased use of our in-house targeting solutions. Another use case is predictive demographics. This uses AI to analyze the actual language used in a podcast and predicts the age, gender, parental status and education level of its listener based on the actual content. And this again helps advertisers target their campaigns more effectively by identifying podcasts that reach their desired audience demographics. It offers a valuable solution in a world increasingly concerned with data privacy and the potential demise of cookies. And finally, we have conversational targeting, which revolutionizes podcast advertising by using AI to analyze and tag individual conversations, not just entire shows and this allows for more relevant ad insertions based on the actual content being discussed. So for example, if a car-focused podcast has an episode with a segment that discusses food, the system identifies and tags this, enabling the likes of a restaurant ad to play after that segment. And this dynamic approach expands advertisers' reach without ads feeling out of place and boosting revenue for both podcasters and advertisers and enhances the listener experience with more relevant ads, all while respecting their data, their privacy, by focusing on using the content rather than personal data. And all of these capabilities underscore the strategic value of our 2022 acquisition of the company, Podchaser. In Q3, we enhanced our ad product offering even further to drive revenue growth for both Acast and our podcast creators. A key initiative was to -- was the rollout of an additional midroll ad slot. And this strategic addition allows us to increase inventory, particularly on popular shows that often sell out, providing more opportunities for advertisers to reach our engaged audiences. It also allows podcasters to maximize their earnings by making more inventory available in our marketplace. And this fourth ad slot has been deployed thoughtfully. So using our proprietary AI technology, creators can automatically identify the optimal place for the new ad marker to minimize disruption to the listener experience. This update aligns us with industry standards on quantity of ad slots while maintaining our commitment to responsible ad frequency and a positive listener experience. Podcasts offer a clean and uncluttered ad environment compared to other media channels such as radio. And we believe there is still room for creators to increase ad placements without compromising that listener satisfaction. Podcasters are evolving into versatile content creators, extending their reach beyond just audio to channels like video, social media and live events. This expands their monetization opportunities while further fragmenting their audience across platforms. And this trend is inherent. This trend mirrors the inherent fragmentation of podcasting itself, which continues to intensify as the medium expands. And Acast is uniquely positioned to capitalize on this fragmentation as unlike competitors, we are not tied to one particular consumption platform or format. We can operate and drive revenue across all platforms and channels, and we do not operate in walled gardens like many players. Simultaneously, advertisers are increasingly demanding omnichannel campaigns and solutions that enable audience-targeting across multiple platforms. In response, we've evolved our offerings beyond audio, successfully delivering a growing number of omnichannel campaigns across multiple channels this quarter. Notable examples include, in France, our campaign for L'Oreal spanned branded episodes, YouTube, Instagram Stories and Reels in addition to sponsorship and audio ads. In the U.K., our campaign for Branston Beans with podcast staying relevant span audio and social. We also launched a branded podcast across audio and video for EuroMillions called Rich Beyond My Wildest Dreams. And in Singapore, our campaign for Volkswagen with the podcast, The Daily Ketchup comprised of YouTube content, branded podcast episodes and Instagram posts. Our ability to support creators beyond traditional RSS demonstrates our strong position in this emerging sector and our right to expand cross-platform. And this development aligns with our focus on enhancing our ability to manage complex brand briefs, which unlocks bigger budgets and revenues. And we anticipate continued growth in demand for omnichannel campaigns as we expect this area to be a significant focus for our company moving forward. I'll now pass over to Emily, who's going to take you through our Q3 financial results in more detail.

Thank you, Ross. All right. Let's get into the details of our quarterly performance, and we start by having a look at listens. The total number of listens was just short of 1.1 billion in the quarter, reflecting an annual decrease of some 15%, which is fully explained by iOS 17. Our data shows that monthly uniques, however, have increased during the same period, reflecting that underlying activity remains healthy. And our average revenue per listen reached SEK 0.43 in Q3, reflecting a 31% growth year-on-year. So this reflects that the decline in listens has actually not limited our ability to continue to monetize our portfolio and grow revenues. And you can see that in our double-digit net sales growth. So net sales growth amounted to 12% in the third quarter, which is the quarter where we faced the toughest comps from last year, as Ross mentioned. The organic growth was a healthy 14% when adjusting for FX impact. And revenue growth was driven by another good quarter for our North American business and with a solid contribution from our Other Markets segment, and I'll discuss these segment details in more detail in a minute. Our revenue through the programmatic channel, I'll also note, continues to increase and was at a record high in Q3 at about 15% of total sales. And the growth of revenue from automated channels is encouraging as it enables sales at lower operational costs and thus greater scalability, which ultimately paves the way for continued profit improvements. We've continued to see a positive gross margin development in the quarter. And in Q3, the gross margin amounted to a record 40% and gross profits increased by 31% compared to the same quarter last year. The positive gross margin development in Q3 2024 was driven by a favorable product mix and efficient yield management. You might recall that we also had a negative gross margin impact from iOS 17 in Q3 of last year, which affects the margin comparison year-on-year somewhat. But ultimately, we're glad to present another quarter with solid gross margins. Now looking into our geographical segments in more detail. Europe saw a more moderate growth in Q3, as you can see here, coming in at 3% growth year-on-year. And this development reflects varying market conditions. Our performance in the U.K., our largest market, has been affected by tougher market conditions, whereas we've continued to see strong performances in the Nordics and in Continental Europe, similar to our comments in -- that we made in Q2. Importantly, we see that Europe has taken a big step forward when it comes to local profitability, as you can see, with a contribution margin of 24% compared to 14% a year ago. North America remains the main driver of growth here at 29% this quarter or 34% when adjusting for FX, so 34% organic growth, which also has been followed by a growing contribution profit. With a 20% revenue increase year-over-year, our Other Markets segment further fueled the group's overall growth whilst also having a positive impact on profits. And looking at this development year-to-date, we can see that we have almost doubled the total contribution profits year-on-year from our markets segment, whilst at the same time, our global costs are down 3% compared to the same year-to-date period last year. So overall, our cost discipline clearly remains, which is also reflected in the OpEx development. Operating expenses reached SEK 199 million in the quarter, reflecting a 5% increase compared to last year. And we do continue our measured investments, primarily in our North American segment, where we keep seeing good traction. We closed the quarter with total staff and consultants of 387 persons versus 374 same period last year. Heading over to profitability. We managed to reach another profitability milestone in Q3, and we reached a positive EBITDA of SEK 16 million and a 3% EBITDA margin, reflecting a 9 percentage point margin improvement year-on-year. The positive development stems from our higher levels of sales, the increased gross margin whilst we have maintained our cost discipline. On the right-hand side, we see that EBITDA development on a last 12 months basis. And looking at our current last 12 months EBITDA result, it was also positive at SEK 6 million. So Q3 of 2024 is another quarter showing that we continue to follow our profitability trajectory, and we do remain fully committed to our full year EBITDA profitability target for 2024. Moving on to operating cash flows. The operating cash flow amounted to negative SEK 4 million in the third quarter, adversely affected by some SEK 30 million in working capital changes. And we have previously highlighted that we usually have some working capital fluctuations between quarters. From a last 12 months perspective, we continue to see large improvements, thanks to our profitability development. It also shows that our operating cash flows is actually tracking ahead of our EBITDA development. By the end of the third quarter, our cash balance stood at SEK 676 million, reflecting a very solid financial position. Back to you, Ross.

Thank you, Em. To summarize our development in the third quarter, we have continued to grow, particularly driven by our North American segment, whilst the growth was more moderate in our European segment due to varying market conditions. And we have continued to show profitability improvements while continuing our ongoing measured investments. Our investments are paying off, and we continue to generate meaningful value to both our creators and our advertisers. And our commitment to profitable growth is bearing fruit, and we remain focused on delivering full year EBITDA as a critical milestone on this journey. And that concludes our comments on the Q3 performance. Let's start the Q&A. If you want to post a question, feel free to type them in the text box below.

We'll start with questions from Andreas at Carnegie. Can you explain the yield management product you have and how that has impacted both sales and gross margin recently?

When it comes to yield management, there are several factors here. Effective yield management can come from effectively using our portfolio to drive both ad sales and spons sales. We have leaned on some of our recent product launches, whereby we can sell sponsorships, not only on our large shows, but our small shows. And through the use of the likes of Collections+, we are more effectively penetrating our portfolio to more effectively sell ads across both large, medium and smaller shows. So these all form part of our yield management efforts. It's not one specific product, but it affects how we drive our gross margin. And as you can see, gross margin was at a record high, but definitely contribution from product mix and the likes of Collections+.

Also from Andreas, can you talk about the trends for CPM and sell-through rates and how it has developed over the year?

During the year, we have -- specifically in Q3, we have seen some weakness in CPMs in this quarter. So what does that mean for sell-through rates, given that we do still have double-digit net sales growth? It means that sell-through rate has gone up, whilst CPMs have seen a small decline in Q3 compared to earlier quarters.

Also from Andreas. When looking at OpEx, you are clearly disciplined. How are you planning OpEx ahead? And what has been the main learnings over, let's say, the past 2 years?

Well, looking back at the past 2 years and even if we look back at a longer perspective, our OpEx has -- our quarterly OpEx has been largely flat for the last 11 quarters, I would say. We've still found a way to make measured investments throughout this time. And we continue to see the need for measured investments. We've spoken about the growth in North America, where we have continued to invest. So we will continue to find ways to undertake measured investments.

And finally, from Andreas. Finally, on taxes ahead, assuming you start to make profits, how should we think about tax rates going forward?

Well, clearly, today is a day that can have an impact on the tax rate on one of our key markets. So I would be unwise, I think, to predict the tax rates moving forward. But if we look at the geographical mix that we have, right now, the U.K. is still our biggest market. Second biggest market is the United States, and our third biggest market remains Sweden. So our future tax rate will be a blend of our -- the key markets in which we operate. But I'd be unwise to predict the precise tax rates of these markets on a day like this.

Some questions from Derek at ABG. Now that we are well into Q4, can you say something about how the U.K. market has developed of late? Are you seeing an improvement in demand from low levels now?

I mean, Q3, we've seen -- continued to see kind of varying performance by market. Q3 saw moderate growth, especially for the U.K., but that's been affected by a tougher market. And you look at the Nordics and Continental Europe, those have continued to develop well. So Q4-wise, we only disclose, obviously, our largest markets on an annual basis. So you'll have to wait for that update when we get to it in February. But we have, however, here highlighted that the U.K. market was especially tough in Q3, which was affected by that kind of macro.

Also from Derek, North America was surprisingly strong despite tough comps. How is the current demand situation like?

We've delivered between 25% and 48% year-on-year growth so far this year in Q3. We grew 29% despite tough comps. I think it was 53% -- 55%, sorry, in Q3 last year. And on an organic basis, we delivered 34%. I mean the IAB has the U.S. podcast market at 12% growth for 2024. And we think the performance shows that our investments are yielding the results, and we are gaining market share.

Also from Derek, what specifically went into lower OpEx in Q3 sequentially? And how should we view the cost base going forward?

In Q3, sequentially, I think we highlighted this in our Q2 earnings call, we do have a specific impact from holiday accruals. The European markets and North American typically have an increased level of holidays in those summer months, and that impacts our OpEx. Likewise, when it comes to FX, we noted that our North American segment had higher organic growth and reported growth. So a weaker U.S. dollar versus the SEK also gives us some positive impact on OpEx when it comes to the cost line. Those things, of course, we cannot predict into the future.

Another question from Derek. M&A, with a strong balance sheet and cash flow approaching breakeven, what type of M&A opportunities are you considering, if any?

I mean I think we have always got an M&A pipeline that we look at. We do have a healthy balance sheet. We have done M&A in the past, and it's been very successful. We're delighted with our acquisition of Podchaser and the contribution that this company is making. So we do have room to consider M&A, of course.

And final question from Derek. What type of effect is the U.S. election having on demand for you on Q3 and Q4?

I mean we can't really talk about obviously Q4, but I think if you look at a lot of the press recently, I think podcasting in general and the election, they talk about podcasting is this is the podcasting election where a lot of the candidates have been featured on podcasts. When it comes to the ad revenue that's delivered through -- revenue from that kind of politics world, I think in Q3, we have seen some, but it's not really a huge effect on kind of our revenues.

And now we have some questions from Richard Kramer. You mentioned gaining market share in your release. Who are you gaining share from? And what is driving that?

I guess the IAB has the U.S. podcast market, as I mentioned, at 12% growth for 2024, and we've delivered between 25% and 48% year-on-year growth so far this year. And in Q3, we grew 29% despite tough comps, which was that 55% I mentioned in Q3 last year, which was 34% on an organic basis. I think if you look at the wider context and the wider market, we are -- I think podcasting in more general is gaining from other areas. I think omnichannel is a really exciting area as well, which is seeing kind of more demand in that area, too, but possibly the likes of radio, streaming music as podcasting audiences increase.

Another question from Richard. What portion of revenues are direct sale, via agencies or via your self-serve platform? And how is that evolving over this year and into next to unlock larger budgets?

When we look at the contribution from agency sales, direct sales and self-serve, the programmatic channels and the self-serve platform, the self-serve platform is still our smallest channel. We noted that the programmatic channel is at around 15% now. And when it comes to agency sales, these have historically been higher contributions in our European segments and lower contributions in the U.S. But I think that is slowly changing, and those dynamics are favorable for us to continue to unlock growth. Ross, I don't know if you want to comment as well.

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And final question from Richard. What are the economics, margins and CPMs of ad units when you deliver content on platforms like YouTube or Instagram?

Good question. I think the omnichannel deals are likely to come at a mixed model depending on the media plan. It could be deals that are structured with a large share of audio podcast ads and spons. It could be the likes of Instagram Stories and Reels, TikTok and live events, where we kind of -- just like in the case of podcast ads, we take a cut on the media investment as a whole. It's all about, for us, connecting the advertiser with that right audience of that creator.

We have a couple of questions here on listens. So from [ Ramil ], could you please shed some light on the development in listens? Some peers are talking the worst of iOS 17 being behind us, but the development in the quarter for you would indicate things turning even worse sequentially considering comps easing.

The 15% decline year-on-year is explained by iOS 17. Underlying, we've seen flat listens if we exclude the impact from iOS 17, but we've also, at the same time, seen an increase in unique listeners, which we think is a very healthy sign. So we will continue to see these comps and have an impact from iOS 17 until Q1 of next year, where we will be looking back at a more relevant baseline. So we have been very focused on our profitability target this year. We've had the ability to grow into our suit, so to speak, and increase our sell-through rates. But moving forward, there will, of course, be a continued and perhaps increasing measured investment into growing our audiences and our listens.

I think it's also worth mentioning actually there that if we look at the omnichannel demand, we start to see when we are signing creators and we start to access audiences off platform, these are not, of course, included in these numbers. So we continue to see that as a growth opportunity for audience.

We have some more questions from Ramil. How do you see the product mix and resulting gross margin going forward? And how much can you control the product mix yourself?

We can control the product mix to a degree, but not fully, of course. We are going to sell spons if our buyers want to buy spots, we will sell ads if they want to buy ads. And when it comes to gross margin, we have a record 40% in this quarter, and we've seen a positive development. What I'd note as well is that in our U.S. market, the market is quite competitive when it comes to content. So with a strong growth in North America, we need to take [ that and keep that ] in mind over time as the gross margins in North America and in the U.S. in particular, we do not anticipate to be sort of higher than the average. Historically, gross margins in other markets and Europe has been high. So we'll have positive contribution from product mix and yield management. But from a geographic perspective, we will see that gross margin balanced out by growth coming from our competitive market in the U.S. And that is also, Ramil, why we haven't increased our guidance for the gross margin target. As a reminder, our gross margin guidance for the longer term is between 35% and 38%. And clearly, we're at the higher end of that right now and outperforming that target with a record 40% gross margin in the quarter.

Another question from Ramil. Could you shed some light on the weak development in the U.K. in the quarter? What was the reasons for it? And should we extrapolate it?

I mean I wouldn't say that -- I mean, there's nothing to really extrapolate from that. We -- it was a relatively tough comp from a quarter before. The macroeconomic crisis is tougher over there. The ad market is slightly tougher. And that's really all I can say. The team are doing a great job signing great content and working very well, especially looking at the omnichannel opportunities out there. So I'm still pleased with the results, but it wasn't as strong a development.

Another question from Ramil. You are trending well above your gross margin targets and guidance, and you have the 2024 profitability target in sight. What should we expect in terms of margin communication ahead?

Thanks, Ramil. I mean we are active in a growing market. We'll continue to invest in order to keep growing our market share. And we believe that a balanced approach will lead to sustainable success. And we haven't guided on 2025 profitability or long-term margins at this point. We are primarily focused on delivering our full year target set for 2024, which is full year EBITDA profits. So let's deliver that first and then look ahead.

And moving on to Bernd. Can we get some more color on strong growth in North America? And what can we expect in terms of trends going into Q4?

For us, we've really focused -- I moved here [ 2.5 ] years ago. We've really focused on North America. We've hired some great staff here and really focused on signing the right content and our story in market. And the market has been very different, of course, to Europe over here as well. And the content we've got, the story we've got, the technology that we have got, especially with the likes of the data capabilities through Podchaser has really enabled our sales here and given us that strong growth in North America. I can't really talk about trends moving forward, but I think you just look at the trend here in Q3 as a lead.

Also from Bernd, can we get more on the beat on gross margin? Somewhat surprising, given beat was driven mostly by North America, which should be lower gross margin.

I agree. It's a good observation, and we had a very strong gross margin in Q3. And again, it was driven by favorable product mix. So for those who are new to this, when we sell preproduced ads, that comes at a high gross margin. And when we sell sponsorships where the host read the message themselves, it drives a lower gross margin. So we had a favorable product mix, and we had a good contribution from our yield management efforts and good progress with the likes of Collections+. But I agree, it was a particularly strong gross margin, given also the growth in North America, which is more competitive. So I'm very happy with that result.

Also from Bernd, how should we think about ARPL, given increasing omnichannel monetization opportunities?

ARPL should increase over time. Utilizing not only our on-platform listens, but also reach beyond our RSS audio marketplace does give us the opportunity to continue to increase our average revenue per listen.

And a final question from Bernd. How does an increased shift of shows behind subscription paywalls affect you? How do you continue to monetize formats of publishers you work with, such as The Economist and the Financial Times and so on?

I mean it does not affect us when shows shift across to paywalls. I think the freemium model works particularly well. I think subscriptions could be an interesting part for podcasters in their kind of revenue mix moving forward, but that doesn't affect our opportunity to monetize. And we continue to sign new content and see new content onboarded every single year. And I think the second part of the question was around monetizing formats of publishers that we work with. We work very closely with publishers. We understand new shows that are coming up and launching, and we talk a lot about, obviously, the formats and how we can monetize those. But we have our very own model the last 10 years. So we will continue obviously to monetize publishers we continue to work with.

We have 2 more questions from Richard Kramer. Do you get access to similar granular audience data in omnichannel deals as you do from DSPs?

Yes, we do get some very granular data depending on the creator and how we can connect their creator dashboards in different platforms. As that's incredibly fragmented, we can segment that and use Podchaser to try and make sense of the data and targeting capabilities. So yes, we do get a lot of granular data.

And final question from Richard. Was the U.K. weakness related to the loss of any specific titles going exclusive?

No, I wouldn't say we lost anything that went exclusive. We continue to sign very exciting content from the likes of The Fellas Studios, [ ShxtsNGigs ], et cetera. So I think the opportunity to sign new content is still very much choosing Acast as the first choice there, but I think it was more around the weaker market conditions.

That's the end of the Q&A. Thank you.

Great. Thanks to everyone who's tuned in today. The year-end report will be released on the 12th of February. You are welcome to join us for that presentation as well. Don't forget to follow us on investors.acast.com, our Acast blog or listen to our financial results, of course, as a podcast. You can also visit our Investor Relations website to sign up for press releases, news and financial reports. Thank you, and goodbye.