ACEA S.p.A. (ACE) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

[Interpreted] Ladies and gentlemen, good afternoon. This is the Chorus Call conference operator. Welcome, and thank you for joining ACEA Group Conference Call on Q1 2021 results. [Operator Instructions] At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Ms. Ira Angrisani, Head of Investor Relations of ACEA Group.

[Interpreted] Now ladies and gentlemen, good afternoon, and thank you very much for joining this conference call on the presentation of the ACEA Group for the first quarter of 2021. The results will be presented by the CEO, Mr. Gola and the CFO, Mr. Paris. During the Q&A, we will also have Mr. Songini, Director of Investor Relations and Sustainability and myself will also take a part to the Q&A together with the CEO and the CFO.

[Interpreted] Thank you very much, Ira. And welcome to the presentation of the results of Q1 2021. Page 2 of the presentation. We have a snapshot of the highlights of the quarter. Before getting into the details, I'd like to say that I am very satisfied about the results, which from an economic and financial and operating point of view, are very, very good, brilliant results. It shows that we are on track as to the growth envisaged by the company, and we are in advance, and also, we are well on track with our operating targets and financial targets. Now the key highlights of the quarter. EBITDA, EUR 312 million, up 13% versus the previous year. And this is very important and most of this growth is organic growth. Only 3% of the growth is accounted for -- by an M&A transaction carried out in the previous year. And then another thing I'd like to share with you is that within these results, we do not have one-offs versus the previous year. So this result is a structurally organic result. And net profit, EUR 83 million, up 18% versus the previous year. CapEx, EUR 231 million, up a 21% versus the previous year and in line with our guidance of EUR 900 million total CapEx for the year. Net debt, EUR 3.634 billion, and we shall see later on that this net debt is also the result of a brilliant performance on our collection capability. And therefore, on the working capital management that we'll get the details later on. But there is a data, which for me is very interesting, which is the cash absorption from working capital over the past 12 months, which went down by EUR 22 million. So a greater portion of this is due to the effect of regulatory items, our working capital net of regulatory items that generated cash. And this occurred in a situation where we zeroed off all of the negative effects due the pandemic on the collections from customers. So this is one of the important things of performance of our company. Net debt-to-EBITDA, 3.05x. The guidance for 2021 EBITDA between 6% and 8% growing. CapEx for the year, EUR 900 million, net debt between EUR 3.85 billion and EUR 3.95 billion. And so we worked in this period with a particular focus and attention in trying to establish dialogue with all of the stakeholders to be able to use or be an active part in the use of national recovery and resilience plan funds because we believe that we can play an important role, in particular, in the investment in water infrastructure or in the development of renewable sources, decarbonization and the development of e-mobility. As we have always said, we believe that our plans, whatever can come from contributions related to the national recovery and resilience plan, all from state subsidies are not factored in our results. So they will, if ever, be an upside to our results. Page 3, we have the novelties of this Q1 for 2021. Once again, we have proven to be -- to have a very good delivery capability. There is a very interesting data, which we presented when we closed our sustainability statement in 2020. All of our investments that we're doing in all of our companies that manage integrated services, we focus a lot on the reduction of water loss rates. And here, we have an important data. In Rome, the water losses in 1917 (sic) [ 2017 ] amounted to a 43.2%, 2017 was the year of the water crisis. So back then we were already trying to reduce the water losses. Investments made in subsequent years not only related to the reduction of water losses but we also improved this service. And you can see that water losses went down from 43.2% in 2017 to 29.5% in 2020 compared with a national average, which is around 42%. At the moment, we are at the -- I'll say, we have the best performance in most cities as far as water losses are concerned. In Q1, Fitch confirmed our rating. Fitch confirmed our long-term -- ACEA default rating as BBB+ with a stable outlook. And so we continue to remain among the list of top operators at a national level with a notch above the Italian government or Italian governmental rating. Now to confirm this rating, we issued a green bond in January, amounting to EUR 900 million, 2 tranches of this. The short-term tranche, 5 year, was issued for the first time by an Italian industrial company with a negative yield. The first time ever in this country. And so once again, here, we are marking a very important step. In 2021, we also launched our app for e-mobility, which integrates all of the activities that we are carrying out to develop our electric service. For instance, the installation of charging service that we have already carried out in Terni, but also we are doing in Rome. In Terni, we basically covered all of the cities. We are developing these services in other areas. Now as to the pandemic, we are, at the moment at a stage where we are continuing to carry out all the actions, which are important to ensure the continuity of all of our processes and the safety of our people. I mean we do no long -- we no longer see criticalities here because we have obtained biosafety trust certification, which guarantees that we can keep under control all of the most important pandemic indicators as far as our companies are concerned. So this certification is very important because it justifies to our capability to prevent and control the spread of infections. Moreover, to protect further our personnel, but also to help the population at large, we are going to set up a vaccination hub in Rome, which probably will be authorized in the next few days. And this hub will be part of the vaccination service provided by the Lazio region, the region where Rome is located. This will be available for all of the population of the area. And whenever we are going to be allowed, we'll vaccinate also our group's personnel. Now Page 4 of the presentation, you see here the results of Q1 2021. Now in Q1, consolidated revenues amounted to EUR 930 million, up 11.6% versus the same period of last year. EBITDA, EUR 311.5 million, growing by 12.7% versus Q1 2020. EBIT, EUR 155.5 million, up 12.3%. And group net profit, which I believe is the most brilliant result, EUR 83.1 million, growing by 17.7% versus the previous year. CapEx, EUR 230.5 million, plus 21.3%. Net debt, EUR 3.634 billion, said to be compared to EUR 3.528 billion at the end of 2020 and EUR 3.184 billion in the first quarter last year. At this point, I'll hand you over to CFO for the presentation and the details of the results.

[Interpreted] Okay, let's now move on -- and thank you very much, Giuseppe. Let's move on to Page 5. And here, we see the details of the economic sale of the group for Q1. Now as usual, we can say that the soundness of the business is filled by regulated businesses. As you can see from the chart on the left and see the contribution of the different businesses to the EBITDA from EUR 276.4 million in Q1 2020 to EUR 311.5 million in Q1 2021. Water business, EUR 17.7 million with a contribution of EUR 163 million. Then infrastructure or energy infrastructure, please remember that this component is presented by distribution and -- sorry, distribution of electricity and power generation, so EUR 107 million of contribution. Commercial and trading, it contributes to EUR 7.6 million with a total of EUR 25 million, the environment EUR 2.5 million and the EUR 15 million of total EBITDA. And then we see that all the businesses are contributing positively to the growth. And if you look at the difference in 2021 and 2020 is 12.7% in terms of EBITDA growth. The bottom table, you see the contribution of the different companies or the changes in the scope of consolidation. Organic growth contribution to EBITDA is plus 10%. Let's move on to Page 6 of the presentation where we shall see the water business. Here you can see that all of the water business companies contribute positively to the growth of the results of the group. Now the ATO2 is the one now, which, relatively speaking, provides the greatest contribution. But as you can see, all the companies of our scope of consolidation contribute positively. As to the equity-accounted water companies, the difference is due to a time difference in the drawing up of the financial statements of the individual companies and the consolidated financial statements of the group. So the growth of the EBITDA of the water business is plus 12%. Here, we also have the application of the tariff regime for the third regulatory period, which is guided by a constant process of investments, which continue to be made in this business. Now in the period under review, we have a line-by-line consolidation of SII Terni, which occurred in November 2020 and EUR 3 million is the contribution of this in the first quarter. And then the acquisition of Alto Sangro Distribuzione Gas with a contribution in the first quarter of 2021 are EUR 1.5 million. Page 7, energy infrastructure. Here again, the contribution is a positive one, both in terms of electricity distribution, which is basically in line with what it was last year. Whereas, as you can see, there is a the decisive positive contribution by the generation of electricity. Here, the company is also making investments. If you take into account the total of electricity distributed in the first quarter of 2021, we have a slight decrease, whereas the number of pods is stable. On the contrary, and this is the driver of this business, we have a growth of the overall power generation. Now the key highlights here. We have a total capacity of 52 megawatts for the secondary market, whereas in Q1 of 2021, we opened up the works for the construction of the 60-megawatt for the primary market. In 2021, we have the of full -- application of full installation of 2G smart meters. We started off last year, and we are going to complete this in 2021. Now let's now move to Page 8 of the presentation, and we see here the commercial and trading business. Now here again, as you can see, the performance is considerably growing. The EBITDA is up 44.4%. And all the items basically grow in line with the growth of the EBITDA. But in terms of energy sold, where you can see the breakdown between the free and the enhanced protection market, the growth is driven by the free market, and by a stability of the enhanced production market. At the same time, as you can see, the growth of energy sold is driven by the growth of the customer base. The sales of gas both in terms of volume, in terms of number of customers, has grown in this period. Now this structural increase and improvement of our commercial capabilities has a direct reflex on investments. We started off last year investing in a process of relationship management, and in 2021, this will be fully implemented. But we also have customer acquisition costs, which are basically related to the widening of the customer base. Page #9 of the presentation. And here, we see the environment business. As we said before, now even in this business, the performance is growing. As you can see, EBITDA is up 20%. Let me remind you that the environment and the generation businesses are the 2 businesses where the group is focusing its growth path through acquisitions as well the growth of the environment business organically is, however -- positive plus 6.4% is the organic growth. And then we have also increased the volumes of waste treatment and the amount of power or electricity sold remains stable. Now here, the scope of consolidation has changed following the acquisition of Ferrocart and Cavallari. Basically, these were acquired in April 2020 and the contribution of these 2 companies in Q1 2021 is EUR 1.7 million. Page 10. Here, you can see the details of the EBIT and the net profit trend. Now as to the EBITDA growth, well, this type of growth also is reflected in the growth of EBIT and net profit. EBIT is growing by 12.3% from EUR 138.5 million to EUR 155.5 million, and net profit is growing by 17.7% from EUR 70.6 million to EUR 83.1 million year-on-year. Now the growth of depreciation is related to the greater investments, which characterize the constant development and growth of the different regulated businesses. The increase of impairments is related to the growth in the commercial and trading business, which is directly proportional to the growth of the performance and the revenues of this business. Provisions as you can say are basically stable or slightly decreasing. Now let me now move on to Page 11 of the presentation. And here, you can see the details of our investments. I'd like to mention once again what I said before. There is that -- investments have grown by 21%. 82% is related to regulated businesses in line with previous quarters, 18% nonregulated businesses. Now let's look in details at CapEx in Q1. End of 2020 -- sorry, Q1 2020, EUR 190 million. Q1 2021, EUR 230.5 million; water, EUR 15.6 million, energy infrastructure, EUR 15 million; commercial and trading, EUR 7.1 million; environment, EUR 3 million. Now on slide, you also have a number of events or factors that contributed to the CapEx. And you can see that water and energy infrastructure basically are the leading businesses in terms of investments. In the water business, repair and widening of water and sewer pipes or work on treatment plants, whereas the other businesses contribute less. Then again, in the water business, we have the contribution of EUR 1.9 million of CapEx after the consolidation of SII Terni. As to energy infrastructure, we have the upgrade and the expansion of the grid and then the installation of 2G meters. And then the construction of photovoltaic plants or primary market photovoltaic plants. Commercial and trading, I told you already about this. This is basically related to our commercial growth and also related to information systems. CapEx in the environment business are related to work on existing plants and basically in line with the past. At this point, I'd like to move on to Page 12 of the presentation where you see the cash flow details. As Giuseppe said at the beginning of the present, cash flow also represents or shows the positive performance of the group, which translates into positive cash flow with the improvement of the working capital versus the LTM of 31st of March 2020, and also improving versus the LTM of the 31st of March 2021 by EUR 51 million. Now the main items, EUR 129 million of working capital versus EUR 149 million. Investments of the period, EUR 219 million. Financial management, EUR 223 million. And then other like M&A transactions, EUR 8 million. So you can see the trend at the bottom of the slide. Page 13, you can see the details of the debt of the group. The net debt at the end of March 2021 amounts to EUR 3.634 billion versus EUR 3.528 billion in -- at the end of December 2020. And EUR 3.184 billion at the end of March 2020. Now the net debt EBITDA at the end of the first quarter is similar to the data at the end of 2020, 3.05x. The debt maturities on the right of this slide, which also includes the recent issue. As you can see, there are no major maturities in the year 2021 and 2022. If we now go to the next slide, Page 14. Here, you can see the ratings of Fitch and Moody's show a stable outlook. Fitch rating is at BBB+. Moody's rating is Baa2. We have already mentioned the issuing of a green bond in 20 -- on the 21st of January 21, 2021. So 2 tranches, EUR 300 million, the first one; and EUR 600 million, the second one. The first tranche will mature in September 2025 with a coupon equal to 0% that is negative yield. The structure of the debt is 84% fixed rate. The average cost of the debt goes down versus the previous data. The average cost is 1.44%, and the average maturity is 0.5 -- sorry, 5.6 years. The maturity in 2021 accounts for 4% of the overall debt of the group. On the right of the slide, you see the sustainability ratings, which remain constant. CDP, A minus, leadership position. Standard Ethics rating, EE minus, positive. And for the first time, we are showing the Gaia rating, which is 78/100 rating, which has been improving for the third year running. This is it as far as the presentation is concerned, Giuseppe over to you.

[Interpreted] Well, we can now start the Q&A session and take your questions.

[Interpreted] [Operator Instructions] Now the first question is by Enrico Bartoli.

[Interpreted] I have a few questions to ask. Now first of all, a question on the commercial and trading business, which has shown a considerable growth in the free market in terms of volumes and margins. Can you give us some ideas about the drivers of this growth? And what is the outlook of this business going forward? Second question about solar installed capacity 60 megawatts, the install -- the capacity, which is being installed. Can you give us an indication about the level of capacity that you think you have installed at the end of 2021? And whether we can, I don't know, see M&A transactions or deals in the course ahead of us? And then you mentioned the possible upside coming from the use of the projects of the recovery fund or the projects within the P&R. Can you give us some ideas or some examples of the type of projects that you see can help you within the recovery fund and the type of investments that may be attributed to a ACEA?

[Interpreted] Well, thank you very much, first of all, for this question. Now let's start from the question about commercial and trading business. There, the performance was particularly brilliant, but not a surprise I have to say. This is the result of, first of all, reorganization and then strengthening of the distribution network, if you wish. And this has led to a structural improvement of the results, which are related to the free market, both in terms of electricity and gas. So from this point of view, we do not have special reasons behind this type of economic performance, with the exception that we continue to defend the customer base on the enhanced protection market. And on the free market, we are growing, on the contrary, the cost base. The customers of the free market have margins, which are structurally very different from that of the customers of the enhanced production market. We do not have, in this case, extra reasons. We are working on e-mobility, certainly, on electricity efficiency, but these are not yet producing tangible results. As to the outlook for this business, now we don't really have a precise data to give you. But we can say that these, for us, are structural results. And so we believe that the performance will be at least confirmed in the next few quarters. As to the question about generation. Now we have, at the moment, 52 megawatts already installed on the secondary market of solar plants. This is the results of M&As that we made in the previous 2 years. We are continuing to work in this direction. At the moment, we are not looking at M&As on the secondary market that we act in an opportunistic manner, perhaps with the smaller deals in the next few quarters. On the contrary, on the primary market, we are continuing developing our plans. We have about 50 megawatts where the plants or the worker sites are already open. So we only need to make all the necessary work to connect them to the network. And in the next few months, certainly before the end of the year, they will be up and running and operating. But we have a pipeline, the total pipeline is around 500 megawatts, on which we are working. And this is fundamental for us to be able to meet the results of the business plan. Now please remember that the business plan has a target of 750 megawatts of photovoltaic energy within 2024. And as to the primary market, we are working on development. We do not have, at the moment, big M&A deals. The development is either ACEA working independently or the acquisition of authorizations. And on to the authorizations, we start installing the plants. But everything is proceeding in line with our plans and perhaps a little bit better than what we had envisaged. As to the recovery fund, it's very difficult to say what the contribution for ACEA will be. Now -- but this is due to the way with which the recovery fund is structured. Now we do not expect funds to be given to us directly. We expect funds and money to be invested in the development of new infrastructures or for the strengthening and enhancement of existing infrastructures. And therefore, in those areas in which we operate, we may take advantage of these investments. So -- but they will not directly affect a tariff structure. We will continue doing our own investments as per business plan. But we can say that the impact for ACEA will be related to the actual feasible implementation of the investments and perhaps the subsequent management of such investments. It will not be related to funds given directly to us. And then I can't answer the question about the investments defined in the recovery fund. There are no investments already envisaged. There are projects for development, and there are amounts of money to be used in certain chapters, which will then be given out based on a competition process. But we will take part to all of the competitions, especially as to the infrastructures. Building all development of infrastructure in the areas in which we operate. And now let me tell you that the doubling of the Acquedotto of Pescara is a fundamental work. Here, we've seen a step forward with the appointment of the government representative. And the main part of the NRRP are -- so the main part of the doubling of the Acquedotto of Pescara, the part that will be financed by public funds, will not be specifically financed by the NRRP because it can only finance works that are completed within 2023, but some other public funds will be used to double the Acquedotto of Pescara and this investment will be made within the regulatory period of the ATO2 area.

[Interpreted] If I can -- another question, if I may, on the photovoltaic plants. Have you started to look for possible financial partners for the idea of consolidating your assets in this business and trying to find financial partners?

[Interpreted] Now we have started to work on this project as envisaged in our plan. This is a project of investments, but we are still at the beginning, if you wish, of this project.

[Interpreted] Now the next question by Sara Piccinini with Mediobanca.

[Interpreted] The first question is about the guidance. And you are confirming the guidance for 2021. Is it right to say that the EBITDA will be slightly towards 8%? So in the upper part of the range that you have given? And in the light of this, now where do you think you have overperformed or exceeded your expectations? Another question about M&As. Are you assessing any deal or any track transaction in the waste business or in the gas distribution business, are you assessing something there? And then I'd like to go back to the question asked before on the recovery fund. Now you talked about a strong reduction of water losses that you have achieved in the City of Rome. Can you tell us what is the current state all over ACEA network? And what are the investments, which are going to be made, should in the business period? And whether these investments are going to be part of the investments envisaged by the National Recovery and Resilience Plan or the recovery fund?

[Interpreted] Now as to the guidance, I want to have to say that we have performed somewhat better than envisaged, your analysis is correct. And we have slightly overperformed versus our expectation in the water generation and commercial trading businesses. So perhaps we can think about the upper part of the EBITDA range in 2021. But we should then have to see whether we have to further give an update of the guidance we have during the year. As to the M&As, we are working on a number of transactions in the environment business. We can't disclose anything at the moment. Well, as we know, the sellers are private companies, very often, some of the owned businesses. But from the moment, the file is open. At the moment, the transaction is closed. There are always some critical steps in between. And so I can't say that these deals are going to be closed very soon. We're working on them, especially in the environment business. As to the water losses overall, we have a data that we presented at the end of 2020. Our overall goal for all our companies, the goal is at of reducing the water losses on average by 11% from 2019 to 2024. Now at the end of 2020, we had achieved a reduction of 3% out of this 11%. So we are performing quite well. But you know that, technically speaking, the reduction of water losses is easier to bring about or to achieve at the beginning of the process of trying to reducing water losses. Whereas when you get to -- when you have already achieved very good levels of water losses reduction, then it becomes even more difficult to further reduce them. Now the reduction in the City of Rome by 29%, that includes fiscal water losses of the infrastructures, but also malfunctioning, so no proper functioning of the measurement systems of the meters and also possible frauds. So here, you have a portion of the losses, which cannot be eliminated, structurally speaking. We are, however, in line with our target of reducing water losses by 11% within the business plan period within 2024.

[Interpreted] Next question by Stefano Gamberini with Equita SIM.

[Interpreted] I have a few questions to ask. As to the water, I'd like to understand why the contribution of the equity activities is going down? And what can we expect in the year? And then like-for-like, I think EBITDA is around 10% in this business. 5% is due to an increase in tariffs in Rome and 7% of tariff increases in [ Fiora ]. Can you confirm this? And what can we expect in 2022? There is a doubt I have on 2022. It should be the year when you have the mid-term update of the WACC. Is there some risk -- perhaps I'm wrong, perhaps it would not be at the beginning of 2022, where you have an update of the WACC. And then another question about the sector of waste in general. In the recovery fund there is some contribution in the waste treatment sector, Rome has major difficulties there. I'm reading that AMA is increasing investments in waste treatment. Where will ACEA find itself? Will it have a positive role in this favorable period, considering the big problem that Rome has here? So can we expect also some strategic repositioning in terms of waste? I'm not asking whether you are interested in AMA but whether there are some opportunities of M&As in the waste business. And then have you made any step forward as to the consolidation of businesses in Tuscany? Can you tell us something about them?

[Interpreted] Okay. Let's take your questions. As to the state of approval of tariffs, at the moment, all tariffs have been approved by local bodies. Whereas, we still have ongoing the authorization process of ARERA. As to ATO2, there is a dialogue ongoing but we do not see major criticalities. As to ATO2, growth is 5.2%. This is the growth expected for 2021. As to ATO5, the expected growth amounts to 4%. But here, we are still negotiating. Now the contribution of equity-accounted companies. Now as I said in the presentation, the approval of the financial statements of the equity-accounted water companies is not -- so the financial statements are not approved in the same period of the financial statements of the group. So this is why you see here a negative data. So it's basically a time difference. There's nothing, structurally speaking, that needs to be underlined. And then we have the consolidation of SII Terni, which is a small company, but it's contributing in an interesting manner. There was a question of WACC for the distribution at the beginning of the year. The new WACC will be approved for 2022. At the moment, we are just waiting to have the opinion or the view of the regulator. It's possible that there may be a reduction, basically related to the number of interests involved. The regulator will have to assess the opportunity to stepping or to review the update, considering also the very difficult moment the country is going through because of the pandemic. Now we made a study, whereby -- a reduction by 100 basis points on the distribution in Rome would have an impact of EUR 22 million. We do not expect a data like this, there should be a marginal effect on the group following the review of the WACC.

[Interpreted] I have a question about this. You're speaking about electricity distribution. I was talking about the water distribution. Isn't there a mid-period review of the WACC?

[Interpreted] No. No, no, there isn't. This is why I talked about electricity because there is no midterm review for the WACC cases. Now the National Recovery and Resilience Plan envisages funds for the circular economy. Now in the areas in which we operate, when competitions are issued we will submit our bids. But at the moment, we do not have specific information about the investments that may be funded by the National Recovery and Resilience Plan. Now we are still at the beginning of this process. As to the consolidation of Toscana, we have no news here. We are talking. But as I have always said, our stake in Toscana or in Tuscany and in Florence. Well, there, our role is that of an industrial company. We hope we can preserve this role even when the -- if you wish the conglomerate growth. But we are always ready to assess and talk about possible solutions.

[Interpreted] Now the next question by Emanuele Oggioni of Banca Akros.

[Interpreted] I only have a couple of questions left. I have a question on the renewable sources of energy, and in particular, about the pipeline. Now, over and above what you have already installed, you are building 60 megawatt. So I'd like to know what is the residual remaining portion of the pipeline, more than 350 megawatts? Can I have the details, meaning how many megawatts are being authorized or will be authorized at the end of the year? Or how many megawatts are you going to see authorized in 2022? So -- and I'm speaking about organic projects here. Second question about acquisitions and perhaps you answered the question already. Where are you focused in this moment when it comes to acquisitions? And then as to the WACC business, what is -- or what do you think is going to be the contribution of acquired businesses that you acquired in 2020, which will be the contribution in 2021 in terms of additional EBITDA?

[Interpreted] Now as to the renewables, we have an overall pipeline of more than 500 megawatts. At the moment, we have 60 megawatts, which we are developing, but 100 have already been authorized. And so 60 already in an advanced state of development. Then 300 megawatts are already undergoing an authorization process. In this moment, I do not know whether they will be authorized in 2021 or in 2022. We will give you updates when the authorization is giving. And for me, there is an important variable, which impacts all of the industry. That is one of the fundamental factors of the National Recovery and Resilience Plan, which does not only envisage funds, but also projects and a change in the vision for the future. And here, there are strong statements about the speeding up of authorization processes. Now we are going through the authorizations with the traditional process. But we hope that the reform of the National Recovery and Resilience Plan may also lead to an acceleration of this authorization processes. It would be really a major step forward all of the industry. Otherwise, the growth of the installed capacity increase or the growth of the installed capacity will be very limited. Now as you know, in order to reach the goals of 2030 in this country, we should install [ 7, 8 ] gigawatt per year. As to your question about M&As in the waste business, we already answered the question. However, as I said, we are working on this. We're working on different possible acquisition files, if you wish, in the waste business. As to the impact of the change and the change of scope of consolidation, Ferrocart, Cavallari, in 2020, EUR 1.7 million is their impact in the first quarter of 2021. So they -- those acquisitions were closed in April 2020. So basically, that's the difference.

[Interpreted] The next question by Peter [indiscernible].

Just 1 question. I was just looking slightly longer term. Could you talk about the water concessions? And why you are certain that you will keep the water concessions after their expiry? I know it's 10 years away. But I'm very keen to understand why you should be able to keep the concessions post 2032, let's say, for ATO2?

[Interpreted] Now as you rightly said, the main water concessions expire after 2030. We are structurally optimistic, so to speak. And so we think that we will be able to maintain these concessions. But certainty cannot be there in absolute terms because at the end of the concessions, there will be a competition, and we will have to put for our bid. So there is no structural reason why we believe that we can keep our concessions. Actually, we have never stated that. When it comes, however, to the concession of Rome, the size of the concession, the investments that we make every year, lead to an increase of value, which may represent quite an important barrier to anyone who wants to put forward and offer a bid for the concession in the future. Do you have any other question?

Well, just some follow-ups on...

[Interpreted] [Operator Instructions] Ladies and gentlemen, at the moment, there are no questions registered at this time.

[Interpreted] So ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much for attending this conference call. The Investor Relations office is always available for further clarifications. Thank you very much, and have a nice evening.

[Interpreted] This is the Chorus Call conference operator. The conference has now been concluded. You can disconnect your phones. Thank you very much. [Portions of this transcript that are marked [Interpreted] were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call.]