ACEA S.p.A. (ACE) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good afternoon. This is the Chorus Call conference operator. Welcome to the presentation of ACEA Group H1 2021 results. [Operator Instructions] At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Elvira Angrisani, Head of Investor Relations of ACEA. You have the floor, madam.

Thank you, and good afternoon, and thank you for connecting to this conference call on the presentation of the results of the first half of 2021. The CEO, Mr. Gola; and the CFO, Mr. Paris will present the results. At the end, we shall have a Q&A session and with us at that point, we also should have Mr. Songini, who is Head of Investor Relations and Sustainability. Giuseppe, you have the floor.

Thank you very much. Welcome to the presentation of the quarterly results. The results are in line with our recent performance, and they are positive. On Page 2 of the presentation, you can see the key financial highlights. We closed the quarter with EBITDA at EUR 619 million plus 9% over the same period of 2020. Net profit, very, very good, EUR 166 million plus 15% versus the same period of 2020. CapEx EUR 482 million, plus 17%. Net debt EUR 3.913 billion with a leverage of 3.2x for the net debt-to-EBITDA ratio. Now we are now updating the results or guidance for 2021, especially the EBITDA guidance that we gave you when we presented the results of 2020. The EBITDA before was an increase by 6%, 8%, whereas now we are presenting the new guidance for 2021, plus 8%. CapEx, the guidance here is confirmed, EUR 900 million and net debt is confirmed between EUR 3.85 billion and EUR 3.95 billion. So I have to say that the company is constantly trying to improve its financial and economic performance. On the other hand, we are also working in our capacity, which is very important, that is to provide our support to the economic recovery of the country, making investments in renewable sources and try decarbonization. We are acting at all level to try and use the funds of the PNRR supporting sustainable investments. And here, we are constantly trying to develop renewable sources, especially photovoltaic energy, and then moving towards greater decarbonization and improving e-mobility services. As to the COVID-19-related health emergency, well, here, we are again continuing to take actions to guarantee the safety of our employees. Let me also tell you that although this is not our core business, we opened a vaccination hub in Rome, which we made available to the Lazio region, and to the local health unit. So by contributing to the vaccination process of our citizens. At the moment, we are delivering approximately 1,700/1,800 doses a day, and ever since the opening this December, we have vaccinated 41,000 people. Now Page 3, we are summarizing the main events of this first half of 2021. I think that one important thing is that all the actions relating to protect water resources. Let us -- to close 2020 with a reduction of what losses in Rome? What losses moved from 43.2% in 2017 to 29.5% in 2020? Well, this is a work that we started doing in 2017 when we had a water crisis. And back then, we started looking at losses. And then we've put in place a more structured work not only compounding ourselves to water losses, but also improving the infrastructure. So as to manage in a very balanced way, the pressure of water. Results are brilliant as of today. We have a water loss in Rome of 29% against the national average of around 42%. And then we placed the first green bond for EUR 900 million. That was very successful. We have been the first Italian company to issue a green bond with a negative yield Fitch Rating has confirmed. Our long-term issuer default rating as BBB+ with a stable outlook, which confirms our financial stability. Between April and June, we made a considerable strength forward in our sustainable offering to our customer. We launched ACEA e-mobility app and mobility services are not only in regional manner but also on national scale and energy -- sorry, ACEA Energy launched its Luce 100% Green and Gas 0% CO2, which means offering our customers energy produced with the renewable sources of energy and offering us with 0 impact of CO2. In March 2021, we signed an agreement between ACEA Energy and Windtre. We were the first one to do this, which means the possibility through a co-branding agreement, we can offer services by Windtre. At the moment within Windtre stores in Veneto and Puglia, we launched this kind of experimentation before expanding this service to other regions. Last but not least, yesterday, we made the announcement of the acquisitions of 2 companies, which operate in the plastic recycling sector. These 2 companies are Serplast in Abruzzo and Meg in [ Benevento ]. We acquired 70% of Serplast and 60% of Meg, lethal companies but important from a strategic point of view to say close the cycle of plastic recycling. We have already companies here Ferrocart, for instance, and these 2 plants that we acquired have another piece of the value chain. And -- which then lead us to take plastic and produce granules of plastic so as to be able to recycle plastics. Well, this is in line with our development process when it comes to waste management, and we're trying now to cover all of the value chain. As to sustainability, if you remember, when we presented our plan in October, business plan is very much focused on sustainability. And we're now seeing the results also in terms of sustainability rating. Gaia rating in May 2021 gave us a score of 71 out of 100. Standard Ethics improved its rating from EE- to EE. As an example, again, on Page 3, we have a number of projects, initiatives related to innovation, which is a very important tool within the transition -- sorry, the digital transformation and ecological transition. Together with 9 partners, we obtained a funding of 20 -- sorry, of EUR 12 million for the Promisces project, which is a call for proposals linked to Europe's Horizon 2020. We signed a memorandum of understanding between Acea Innovation and the Municipality of Taranto for the city's ecological transition which will start with the installation of [ reach ], electric recharging station. Then we presented Waidy WOW, an updated revamped version of the app for people who care about water management and points of water recharge in all the points of the cities where you see water fountains. Well, this is all in line and consistent with our project. Page 4. Let's see the financial highlights of the group in the first 6 months. I have to say, the company proved to have a sound financial position, confirming the results we had in the first quarter of this year. Revenues EUR 1.824 billion, plus 12.5%; EBITDA EUR 619 million, plus 8.8%; EBIT, EUR 310 million, plus 10.3%; Group net profit, EUR 166 million, plus 15.3%. Let me make a comment here. Well, you can see that the development that we put in place and that we should see later on in detail. Now the regulated and nonregulated businesses in particular, waste trading commercial area and energy mix. So the growth coming from different businesses allows us not only to grow the EBITDA of the company, regulated business have a very important role, but also -- they have an impact on debt. Waste treatment and energy have a lower depreciation compared to [ Intelsat ] to grow our net debt less. Then CapEx for EUR 418.5 million, plus 17.3%. Net debt, EUR 3.913 billion to be compared with EUR 3.528 billion at the end of 2020 and EUR 3.527 billion in June 2020. At this point, I'll give the floor to the CFO, Mr. Fabio Paris, who will give you the details of the different businesses.

Thank you very much, Giuseppe. Good evening to everyone. Let's now move to the Slide #5 and see the results of the operating businesses here, the EBITDA. As we heard before, EBITDA is growing by 8.8%, all businesses are contributing to this growth with the exception of electricity generation, which is, however, remaining stable. Now Water is contributing with EUR 20.8 million and -- which means EUR 326 million. Now we need to underline the positive performance of Generation, and Commercial and Trading, which contribute respectively, with EUR 11.3 million, EUR 10.7 million with a total contribution of EUR 35 million and EUR 40 million, respectively. The Environment business is contributing with a positive performance with an increase in the period by EUR 4.5 million and a total contribution of around EUR 31 million. The total EBITDA of the group amounts to EUR 618.8 million, which is mainly contributed by the contribution of regulated businesses, which remain stable versus the previous quarters. Now organic growth of the group net of the changes in the perimeter in the scope of our company is positive by 6%. In the table at the bottom of the page, you can see the changes in the scope of consolidation. Let us now move to Page 6. And let us look now at the Water business performance. As we heard before, the Water business contributes positively to the growth of the EBITDA, plus 6.8%. All of the companies of this business contributed with a positive performance with the exception of ATO5. Here, we need to remember that ATO5 had a review in March of 2021 of the [ regime ]. So that's the reason of the change in the performance, however, the containment measures that we have put in place allowed ATO5 to reach a results which is in line with the previous period. Let me remind you that the application of the tariff regime relates to the third regulatory period related to 2020-2023, and the growth in this business segment is led by investments that we should see later on in detail. Investments here are quite significant and contribute to the growth of this period. As we said before, the results of the period is also positively affected by the line-by-line consolidation of SII Terni, EUR 7 million, the same within the Water business. We have the Distribuzione Gas business and the change in the scope of consolidation related to the acquisition of Alto Sangro Distribuzione Gas, plus EUR 2 million, as you can see on Page 6. Moving on to Page 7, Energy Infrastructure. And here, you can see that the results of this business is in line with the previous quarters. Total electricity distributed growing by 1.5%, and this is related to a positive energy balance. Let me remind you that in this business, in years, we've had a change in the investment mix. Starting from 2016, we invested a lot in IT, which then started to give us the results. So we had to make efforts to maintain our performance here. And we did so with constant industrial investments, which, as I said, have allowed us to maintain this level of growth. As to the performance of public lighting, this is affected by the missing approvals for new assets in the city of Rome. Moreover, let me remind you that 2021 is the first year of the full rollout of 2G meters. We are now in line with our planning and smart meters or second-generation meters that we have installed as to the end of the first half of 2021 amounted to 150,000. Let's move on to Page 8, where we shall see the Generation business performance. The EBITDA in this area is growing considerably, but because of the expansion process of this business. The EBITDA here is growing by 46.9%. Moving from EUR 24 million in the first half of 2020 to EUR 35 million in H1 2021. CapEx move from EUR 7.7 million to almost EUR 22 million in H1 2021. So here, we have to say that the growth of the business is affected positively by the investments, by our CapEx. And as we know, on the market, there is a price effect for energy, which is positively affecting these businesses. As we should see also in other slides going forward. Photovoltaic, EUR 1.5 million in terms of EBITDA. New photovoltaic plants installed in the period have reached a total capacity over 62 megawatts, whereas we have under construction, some 60 megawatts of capacity. Let's move to Page 9, and we should see here the Commercial and Trading business performance. Here again, the EBITDA is brilliant, growing by 36% from EUR 30 million more or less in the first half of 2020 to more than EUR 40 million in H1 2021. CapEx growing here, too. And you can see EUR 36 million in the first half of 2021 versus around EUR 18 million in the same period of the previous year. Investments aim at improving the customer loyalty of our customers. So either trying to acquire new customers or better manage our customers with CRM systems. The quantity of energy sold is growing by 34%. And the same applies to the number of electricity customers, which is growing by 17%, given the Gas business within this perimeter is growing both in terms of volumes and in terms of number of customers, 38%, 16%, respectively as you can see on Page 9. Let's now move to Page 10 of the presentation. As you see here, the Environment business. As -- just as I said before, in this period, we have the acquisition of Serplast and Meg with an enterprise value of EUR 12 million and an EBITDA expected in 2021 of EUR 3 million with a multiple of this deal which is 4x EBITDA. Volumes treated expected in 2021 around 70,000 tonnes per year, as you can see on the table or in the table on the right-hand side. Let's move to the performance of this business. EBITDA is growing by 17%, moving from EUR 26 million to EUR 31 million in the first half of 2021. The same applies to CapEx, which have grown by 55% from EUR 9.5 million to around EUR 15 million. At the same time and consistently so, we have an increase in volumes of waste treated and disposed of, whereas the electricity sold, that remains stable. Let me now move to the next slide, which is Page 11 of the presentation. And here, we can see the economic items below the EBITDA, EBIT is growing by 10.3% from EUR 280.9 million in the first half of 2020 to around EUR 310 million in H1 2021. Net profit is growing by 15.3% moving from EUR 143.8 million in the first half of 2020 to EUR 165.8 million in the first half of 2021. The tax rate remains stable or slightly decreasing at 29.8%, whereas, it was 30.5% in the first half of 2020. Now the components that affect positively the results considering the items below the EBITDA are depreciation growing by 8.3%. And then as we said, this is due to the increase in investments, but also in the change in scope of consolidation, which occurred in 2020 and 2021. Impairments, as you can see, bottom left, are related to the growth of Commercial and Trading businesses but are in line with the positive performances, which have been achieved by the segments. Let's -- at this point and move on to 12, where you can see the CapEx, all the business areas have contributed to the growth of investments that move from EUR 410.6 million in the first half of 2020 to EUR 481.5 million in the first half of 2021. The Water business contributes with EUR 18 million; Energy Infrastructure, EUR 6 million; Generation because of the growth of the business, EUR 14 million; Commercial and Trading as we saw before, EUR 18.4 million. These investments are related to customer acquisition, customer loyalty and customer management with the CRM systems. Environment, EUR 5.3 million, and this is basically related to the growth in the scope of consolidation of this business. Other businesses, here investments are focused on regulated business, which accounts for 80% of our growth, but all the other businesses as well are continuing their growth, which is then reflected by the growth of investments as well. Let me now move to Page 13 where you see here the cash flow of the group. Now as you can see from the cash flow. Well, we can see the positive performance of the group. The working capital of the group is improving by EUR 33 million, which is related to the positive performance of corrections recorded in all the business areas with an improvement of working capital over the last 12 months from EUR 130 million at the 30th of June 2020 to EUR 9 million at the 30th June 2020. So an improvement of around EUR 121 million. Well, the cash flow movements, as you can see in the waterfall table on the left, we have absorption of investments, EUR 474 million. Financial costs, EUR 43 million; income tax paid EUR 44 million; change in provisions, EUR 63 million; dividends are EUR 170 million, distribution of dividends which occurred in June this year. At this point, let me move on to Page 14, where we can see the financial components: The net debt-to-EBITDA is in line with our forecast, 3.2x; net debt-to-equity ratio, 1.7x; the financial debt at the end of June 2021, EUR 3.913 billion to be compared with the debt at the end of 2020, growing by EUR 385 million. The structure that is unchanged versus the previous periods. But we do not have meaningful maturities in the short term for the group. Let's move on to Page 15 of the presentation. We continue with our financial components. We have already mentioned the placement of the first green bond. 2 tranches: of EUR 300 million with a rate of 0% with the tranche maturing in 2025; and the other EUR 600 million tranche with a rate of 0.25% maturing in 2030. The ratings are stable. As you can see, Fitch Ratings at BBB+, stable outlook. Moody's Baa2, stable outlook. The structure of the debt is 85% fixed rate. Average cost which is decreasing because of the issues made, 1.43%, and the average term is 5.5 years. As we saw before, when we talked about the debt maturities, we do not have maturities in the short term, and 97% of our debt has maturities after 2022. As we already mentioned, sustainability ratings are improving. Standard Ethics and Gaia ratings are improving, EE positive and 78 out of 100, respectively. And CDP with a rating of A- with a leadership position. At this point, the presentation is over. Ira, back to you.

Thank you very much. Fabio. We can now move on to the Q&A session.

This is the Chorus call Conference Operator. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. [Operator Instructions] Now the first question by Javier Suarez with Mediobanca.

I have 2 or 3 questions. The first on the working capital impact at Page 13. Now I have seen the reduction versus last year. So I was wondering if you can give us a guidance as to where the net working capital should be at the year-end. And what are the management measures, which either you are implementing or whether you can implement to have a positive impact here. Second question, Can you please make a comment on the ARERA regulatory document on the regulatory work for next year. Perhaps you can tell me if there is something that you can improve during the consultation process, the to the waste collection consultation. Third question about the supply business, which is Slide #9. I'd like to have some more details about the evolution of the profitability. So I'd like to know what are the underlying dynamics that you are seeing considering the results are so good.

As to the first question. Now the negative working capital in the first half of the year is also related to the seasonality effect which is related to the payments that we make to suppliers in the first part of the year. Now our net financial position in the first half is usually similar to what we expect to have within the end of the year. If you look at the data is very much similar to what we expect. As to the working capital, we aim at having a working capital at the end of the year, which is going to be neutral net of the regulatory impacts, which are around EUR 40 million, EUR 50 million. So we expect working capital at the end of the year to be negative by EUR 40 million, EUR 50 million which are totally related to the impact of regulations. Now as to comments you asked about ARERA, well, let me tell you that in general, in this moment, we are analyzing very carefully the document about the reduction of WACC. Now versus the past, we see that the regulator has become a bit less balanced so to speak versus the past. But within the document, we see a very wide range about the possible reduction of WACC. So at the moment, we do not believe that this document leads to a substantial reduction of WACC. In this moment, however, we need to work with the regulator so as to provide a contribution leading to a result, which should be appropriate for the system. Please remember that these things have an impact on the system, have an impact on tariffs, but also in a way stimulate investments, which are fundamental for all of the system, particularly for distribution networks there. There is a considerable need for investments to be made to manage the energy transition. Here, in particular, a lot has to be done in the areas of electricity distribution for electric mobility or investments to be made to absorb retail photovoltaic plants. So we believe that at the end, a balanced solution will be found. At the moment, we're not making forecasts but we believe that we can get to a balanced solution at the end. As to the WACC of the Environment business, well, we are working on the application of the regulation, which is expected for this sector. At the moment, however, we do not see major impact on our business. But it is true that some pieces are still missing, so as to be able to have a full understanding of the application on all the periods expected. And of course, we need to take into account the growth process that the group has within its pipeline. We do not, however, expect a major impact on the existing business. we are assessing with a lot of attention, the future possibilities and trying to understand what we are and what we want to be in the next future. As to the other question about margins of the Commercial & Trading business, let me specify one thing. The first quarter was much better than the second. But there is no change of the performance process. As we said there in the conference call for the presentation of the first quarter results, we had very good results because of the growth of customers. But we had not been yet put in place marketing actions that we developed in Q2. For instance, we launched electricity and mobility services or the green offering for electricity and gas. And that led to marketing and advertising investments, which we did not have in Q1. As to the costs, so therefore, we can say that the first half is so to speak, a run rate for our costs. And I believe that the 2 quarters can kind of rebalance themselves. As to margins, we are witnessing margins, which are still growing on the free market. And we had an increase in the period of Acea for the regulated businesses.

The next question by Enrico Bartoli with Stifel.

I have a couple of questions as well. First of all, a question about the guidance. Can you give us visibility about the main drivers that led you to review upward your guidance. I have then a question about photovoltaic plants, 60 megawatts of capacity, which is now being installed. Can you give us an indication of more or less when these plants will start operate and therefore, contribute to the EBITDA. And then any update about the search for a financial partner in the Photovoltaic business. A question about the Water business. Now we had a decrease in the first H -- in the first half of the business, a reduction of companies consolidated equity. Can we expect something different in H2? And then Energy Infrastructure, the growth trend that we've seen in H1, can we expect it to continue in H2. And then will you be able to recover the negative EBITDA that you had here in the second part of the year?

Okay. Let me start from the beginning. As to our guidance. Well, the answer is very simple. We are performing very well -- And our review lead us to believe that we can do better between -- versus the range that we indicated before that was between 6% and 8%. So seriously, we decided to say that we expect to grow by 8%. So we expect the H1 result is going to be stable in terms of relative growth. Well, however, if you compare things with the previous year, let me tell you that this year, we do not have meaningful one-offs. But in 2020, in Q1 of last year, we had an underestimation of margins, which led to a reduction of the margin in Q1. And then an increase in the margins of Q2. Well, let's take an example of Water. In Q1, we did not account all of the tariffs increases. And we did not account for the large treatment and their effects on tariffs. As to our photovoltaic business, 60 megawatts are under construction. Some of these are, however, have been completed. I thought some of these could already be operating. We have some delay related to the connections of these plants to the network. So in some cases, some of the plants will start operating a few days up to the end of the year. So by the end of the year, they will all be operating. As to the search for a financial partner, we are proceeding as foreseen. In these days, we are receiving nonbinding offers. We have -- we are recording quite a bit of interest from quite a good number of potential financial partners. So we are confident that we will be able to close the deal and post in terms of amounts paid or offering . So the quality of the partner that we would have. So we may get to the closing of the deal by the end of the year. As to the company's consolidated equity in the Water business. Well, the negative performance is due to a number of post-closing adjustments. This is due to the time lag between the closing of the financial statements of the companies and the closing of the financial statements of the group, there is a component in EUR 5.5 million, as a negative component but the water companies in [ Tasco ]. This has to be taken as a recurrent impact because this is due to the increased depreciations in these companies, which are mainly related to a financial depreciations of tariffs and investments, which are related to that. Basically, this is due to the tariff policy, which is ongoing, which requires certain depreciations on the period of concession. So there is a curve of depreciation and which, of course, also contributes to the net equity. As we said before, and this is related to -- also to a delay of authorizations and now speaking about no longer about Water, but public lighting. The slowing down of authorizations is actually affecting the performance of the Public Lighting business. We expect this to recover because these are investments which are necessary to the city of Rome and we expect things to recover from here to the end of the year. But at the moment, it's very difficult to foresee it or forecast it exactly. Now as to the [ Araci ] area, as we saw during the presentation, Yes, we witnessed constantly a growth process. We can deem or we can see it is going to be stable versus the first half performance. But here again, we need to take into account the investments made in previous years. These are investments in IT which are taking into account when it comes to tariffs. At the moment, the company is making infrastructure investments which can be passed on the tariffs on a longer period of time. And for this reason before, we were emphasizing the brilliant performance here. The growth is constant, although we replaced investments, which have an impact on tariffs on a shorter period of time with investments that have an impact on a longer period of time on tariffs.

Stefano Gamberini has the next question. Stefano Gamberini with Equita.

I have 3 questions to ask. The first is on the recovery plan. Can you tell us the upside that you can see for your group related to the recovery plan, especially in the Water business where there are new opportunities, new resources available for investments, a review of the system, which is seen as too much fragmented and investments to be made about purification of water as well. So should small operators that not be capable to do something, large operators should step in? And then energy generation. So how are you assessing possible contribution coming from the recovery plan? And then regulation, I wonder whether, again, you may see opportunity coming from the retiree fund. Second question about the guidance of CapEx, EUR 900 million, the EUR 385 million. The previous guidance included also EUR 100 million of M&A. So I would like to know what is the value of the M&A included in the new guidance? Now do you have any deal, any transaction that we may see in the second part of the year when it comes to M&A? And then another question about the energy. You have accelerated investments. Now 100,000 customers, EUR 36 million of investments, so EUR 360 each. Can we expect a similar trend in the second part of the year? And can you perhaps mention what kind of churn rate you have? Question basically about the stability of customers given the money that you invest to acquire new customers?

Stefano, let me take your questions. Now as to the PNRR, I have my -- if you wish my personal or we have our own view on which we are working quite hastily, I have to say. Now -- so I don't have a specific question to your answer about the economic upside. But I can tell you what we think we may kind of get. First of all, in the Water business or in the world of development of water infrastructure. I see opportunities for our companies, not so much in other 2 where we have some EUR 300,000 of investments, which is somewhat connected to tariffs. But we don't have this problem in ATO2. Whereas we have opportunities in other companies, ATO5, Gori, Acquedotto del Fiora in the Umbria region. So areas where the population density and where the possibility to cover investments through tariffs is limited and where we have somewhat old-ish infrastructures where investments are necessary. So the PNRR for us is an opportunity to make this additional infrastructural investments. While we do not see these investments contributing directly to our P&L, but we see these investments as improving the infrastructure as a whole. Now if we have investments in water cleaning system or purifying system while the contribution will not have an impact on our P&L. But at the end, the system will then manage this system after its implementation, and that has a contribution on the P&L or an economic contribution. The same applies to energy distribution and waste. Now the PNRR is considered a plan where you have funds available to be invested, whereas, for me, is a structural reform of the country, which in order to work requires money, requires funds. So from an infrastructure point of view in the waste business but also in the energy distribution. What I see is the possibility to do things in an easier way. As to waste, we do not have a lack of capital when we are asked to invest money in a new plant in Rome, we don't have -- we don't need public money. So what I'm trying to say is that whatever is present in the PNRR certainly is funds that can be invested, but which will make the system easier to manage. Let me give you an example also of e-mobility. We are not looking for funds to install recharging stations in Rome. We have a problem which are -- which is related to authorization process and development, for this reason becomes difficult. So we can't make a precise forecast in this moment. But considering the areas in which the PNRR are focused on and considering our business, what we believe that in many of these areas, we can have an active role and therefore, have a related or correlated positive effect on our P&L. As to the question about the guidance, well, it's true that our guidance included some EUR 100 million of M&A so far. We've made less than half of this. We have a few deals in the pipeline. So we're not going to stop here, and we hope to announce the closing of new deals in short-term hope. But on the other hand, we haven't changed our guidance on CapEx, EUR 900 million. Well, let me say, EUR 900 million plus and EUR 100 million is something I can confirm. So EUR 900 million of investments, and EUR 100 million of M&A more or less EUR 1 billion. Now let me comment on -- about the Commercial and Trading, you have the average cost of acquisition is EUR 115. As we said before, EUR 16.8 million are related to the acquisition of customers. And then we have another major component, which is investments on CRM systems that we mentioned before. As to the churn rate, it is slightly increasing, but under control. Now we've witnessed growth in the number of customers. And of course, when you grow so much the number of customers, say, you're much more exposed to a reduction of the churn rate. In the Commercial and Trading area, we have made provisions, which are related to the growth rate that we are witnessing here.

If I can, a follow-up question. Going back to the opportunities related to the PNRR fund. I wonder whether the update of the business plan, you may publish it this year or next year? Or you can lengthen the business plan to include the medium to long-term opportunities.

Well, let me tell you that today, I see our business plan very much in line with what we are seeing. So I don't think we're going to make an update on the business plan this year. More or less, we're going to update it in next year, next spring, perhaps, extend the business plan to a longer period. But to tell you the truth, we're not thinking about this.

Thank you very much for this very sincere reply.

Next question by Emanuele Oggioni.

I have 3 questions as well. Now the first question is about the tariff increases for 2021. I wanted from you a confirmation of what you said before, meaning they're are to increases of 5.8%, at 5%, 4%. Second question I have is kind of a follow-up question related to the simplification measures that you mentioned before. Now at the moment, how much are you satisfied about the so-called simplification process related to the opening up of new sites, new construction sites. A few days ago, one of the main operator in the electricity distribution said that because the new rules, some of the investments are at risk and new rules may cause some further delays. So can you give us our opinion here? And a third question I have is about an update about the situation in Tuscany. You are indirectly related to the creation of the new entity, which is being created in Tuscany and you have a stake in Publica Aqua. So I'd like to know whether you are working on this to try and enhance the value of your stake or whether you are thinking about other scenarios?

I do apologize, but we're not receiving sound from the original conference. I'm sorry, I missed the first part of the question because from that moment, the line was interrupted. Now let me tell you that the regions in which we are operating and not having a constructing approach to the simplification process. So this is something that we should perhaps assess better. This is why before when talking about the PNRR. Well, at the moment, we are making our forecast. We're doing our business as if that plan did not exist. It's true that these reforms are necessary. So before making any forecast about the impact that we are going to be very cautious. As to Tuscany, I don't have any major news versus what I said last time. We gave our availability to play a [ nice ] role in the multi-utility. But on the other hand, the basic idea of the multi-utility that they have does not include an industrial [ part ]. So we're just waiting and seeing as to the tariff increase of ATO2 and ATO5. We confirm what we said before. And for ATO2, the increase is a 5.6% and ATO5 is around 4%. In ATO5, there is a process or a litigation about the tariff proposed by the local operator. We confirm, however, a 4% increase at the moment for tariffs, which is in line with ATO5.

[Operator Instructions]. Well, ladies and gentlemen, there are no other questions from the conference call.

Well, thank you very much for connecting to this conference call. However, if you have any other questions, the IR service is available. Thank you very much, and have a good evening.

This is the Chorus call conference operator. The conference is now over. You may disconnect your telephones. Thank you. [Statements in English on this transcript were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call.]