ACEA S.p.A. (ACE) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, everyone, and thank you for being here today at Palazzo Mezzanotte, the location of Borsa Italiana. And thank you to all those who are following us remotely. We welcome you to the presentation of the Business Plan of the ACEA Group 2024-2028. Fabrizio Palermo, the CEO and Director General; and Sabrina Di Bartolomeo, the Financial Chief Officer of ACEA, will illustrate the many strategies and the targets of the business plan. At the end of this presentation, there will be a Q&A session. But before starting, I have the pleasure of giving the floor to the President of the ACEA, Barbara Marilani, who is connected with us.

Good morning, everyone. Good morning to those who are in Milan and also are remotely, either in Italy or overseas. Today, we are presenting ACEA business plan, a group that today has celebrated 115 years of its life. So this very important stage of the development program of this company goes hand in hand with ultra very long tradition that is rooted in the history of universal cities such as the City of Rome. In fact, the ACEA was founded at the beginning of the 20th century as a token of innovation in the [indiscernible] neighborhood, using leading technology in an area which felt a strong need for modernization. This feature -- this idea of innovation is still there after 100 years. In fact, we might say that it has been a symbol and an important feature of all the innovations of the group I have the honor of chairing. We look at the future of our history, going back to the past. That's the idea to understand our new business plan today. Just like today, the distinctive feature of the company is building and managing secure and sustainable infrastructure. This is true for the water grid, which is the offspring of Roman Aqueduct that we are managing with the help of artificial intelligence. This is true for our power network grid that is managed with very innovative technology. This is true for the environmental plans that we have to close the recycling and waste circuit infrastructure. Of course, is meant for the citizens. And the best way to have a public service is part of our DNA since our inception. Public service, looking at citizens, putting people at the center and local communities at the center in ACEA yesterday, today, tomorrow. We start from the needs of people and of our people to interpret the needs of our customers from a human dimension of the people we work with to look at the best of citizens and all our users. Because we try to anticipate their needs. And that's how we think, plan, build the future of our group. And I'm very pleased to give the floor to the CEO, Fabrizio Palermo.

Thank you, Barbara. Thank you, Barbara, and good morning to you all, and welcome to the Capital Market Day of ACEA 2024. Today, the goal is to talk about our results of 2023, of course, which is, in fact, a turning point for the group, but also to present, and especially, to present our business plan that will guide our group in the next years. The results that have been achieved this year that we published this morning justify the fact that we are an infrastructure operator, which is focusing on 3 sectors: water, electricity and the environment, with 2 businesses such as engineering and production, which is basically supporting the other businesses. When it comes to water, we are relevant, 10 million customers, 20 million if we consider overseas. On electricity, we are the second operator in Italy, 1.7 points of delivery. And as regards the environment, we have 1.8 tons of waste treated over 25 plants. We have an EBITDA which is very much concentrated on the regulated market. That's why we are very similar to an infrastructure operator rather than a multi-utility company. And we have a ratio, NFP/EBITDA, which is about 3.5%, compared to much higher values for infrastructure operators' results. So -- a turning point. In fact, EBITDA has grown by 7% and net profit plus 5%. But the organic net profit is so important because the group has grown with internal strength, plus 22%, CapEx, plus 9%. And despite this, we have improved because the operating cash flow improved by EUR 148 million and NFP/EBITDA, and we had guidance in 2023, which accounted to less than 3.8x whereas we reached 3.49x. These are our results that lead us, as you can see, to these improvements on EBITDA and profit. And we have proposed a growing dividend to our shareholders meeting, EUR 0.88. So this confirms a yield that is higher than 6.4%. As you can see, the EBITDA is still concentrated on the water business, 54% of the group, and then we have 33% EP networks and environment, public lighting. So CapEx show a strong weight of the regulated market and an improvement in the ratio and NFP/EBITDA. We worked a lot also to maintain -- contain cost of debt, 2%, with an average maturity which is well distributed, as you see the different maturities, and also a weight of the fixed element which is still high. And this made it possible for us, despite the complex situation, to generate an operating cash flow that has improved EUR 148 million, which is still positive also when it comes to the improvement CF before M&A and IFRS, [ EUR 318 million ]. We've done a lot -- we did a lot in 2023. We see we've worked on water, electricity, the environment, but also when it comes to people because we've had an important turnover of managers and also on our ESG goals, which are very important to us. So we had an over-delivery compared to the targets we announced at the beginning of the year. We increased in terms of CapEx, EBITDA, improved dramatically. And as I said, also, the NFP/EBITDA ratio improved compared to the guidance. So against this context, it is important to examine the overall situation which the group is working. It is a complex context, and we have macroeconomic complexities that we are all familiar with, inflation, which reached very high peaks this year. Today, it is improving. And then the [ plans ] of energy changes a lot. Interest rates are still high, and also an evolving regulatory situation. And this brings the company to face the topic of investment, investment that in our areas bring 2 very important figures, in water, we are expected to invest EUR 600 billion, EUR 400 billion electricity, EUR 200 billion environment. And as an operator, while we invest money, we are also confronted with the topics, what is called the trilemma of energy transition, skills and new technologies. These are very important, the people, and especially the availability of natural and financial resources, not to mention the increase in debt cost. Here, you see our challenges, the level of challenges, we are expected to face. This is a European situation, but it is the same for Italy. There is an issue of the availability of resources, water, power, waste, also a topic of quality. So we have to improve as regards these areas and also the sustainability of resources, as you can see. We are fighting and we'll have to fight when it comes to skills. There is a need for higher number of technical people, engineers, more skills in science, technology, engineering and mathematics. But also we have to include new technology into our company. And this has to do with artificial intelligence, robotics. We are also working on natural resources because natural resources, like water with which we work, have become increasingly significant. And there are important topics of supply chain disruptions and also a very well-known topic of cost of money, which has increased over the past 18 months. Italy, of course, is in a similar situation. The challenges we have in Italy in our areas are considerable. And as regards water, we have an old water network, we have still a high number of leakages, a strong market fragmentation, 2,500 operators in Italy. This is a big number. And also we have limited and heterogeneous investment if we think a comparison between the north and the south, the different operators, but the average is lower compared to the rest of Europe. Also, there is an important topic when it comes to declining of availability of resource, and it's a downward trend, power, electricity, the situation is similar. Italy has underinvested in the grid versus European peers. So the level of service is slower. Yet, we have an increase in the expected demand for the next 10 years. The environment. In Italy, we have an infrastructure gap between plants in the north, in the south. Figures are very clear, 70% of plants are in the north of Italy. We have to expand the new waste treatment plants, but especially, there are regulations asking for important investment. Against this context, there has been also a partial change of the regulatory framework, which is still changing. And of course, this is, in a certain way, an opportunity for a group like ours, a group that has proven to be able to work on the maximization of expense and operations. So we have drafted what we want to be our business plan for the next years. We have called it Green Diligent Growth. And this makes something very important to us. First of all, we would like to start from the mission of our company. We want to develop and manage safe and sustainable infrastructure. But also with our people, we want to ensure access and circularity to critical resources for citizens, businesses and communities. So what's the meaning of these 3 words? They have a very specific meaning in terms of strategy. Green because we will focus on regulated infrastructure businesses by strengthening our positioning and expanding into adjacent segments. Also, we want to guarantee a cross-cutting approach of ESG in our businesses. But we want to do that by being diligent, meaning working on people, focusing on operational excellence with strong cost and investment focus and discipline to support cash generation. We want to optimize our financial structure and capital allocation. All this, of course, will deliver or it's intended to deliver growth by increasing our CapEx, also in innovation. And therefore, increasing our RAB, which is a synthesis of our value. And we want to deliver value to our shareholders in terms of profits and dividends. Here, we have set some of our targets. Perhaps these are the most significant targets. Regulated EBITDA, we expect it to grow up to 90%, and we will become more and more regulated infrastructure operator. And then also we expect ESG to go up from EUR 0.4 billion a year to about EUR 1 billion a year. In terms of EBITDA margin, we expect a growth from 30% to 43%. We also expect an improvement in the NFP/EBITDA ratio 3.5x to 3.1x. And we also expect a growth in terms of total CapEx from EUR 1 billion to EUR 1.5 billion, and net profit from 1% to 5% in the coming years. How do we want to deliver all this? Through a structured framework with 2 main pillars. First of all, where we want to go? Water, electricity environment, to ancillary sectors, engineering and production. We want to work on ESGs. But we want to do these with people, with systems and processes. Water, we are the first operator in Italy and a leader in Europe, 10 million customers in Italy, 10 million outside Italy. EBITDA EUR 780 million. So figures are very telling. We have innovative skills in this sector. We work on the entire supply chain, also in specific areas such as river reclaiming and industrial waters. When it comes to water, we want to become an international operator with a greater diversification. And our weight on EBITDA in 1928 (sic) [ 2028 ] will reach 57%. We want to focus on water Net Zero and the local approach, which has been our point of strength that we want to continue and leadership in innovation. What do we mean by Water Net Zero? That means guaranteeing, ensuring the availability of the water resource, and also monitoring the quality of the water resource. Our approach is intended to be local with the local communities, with an eye to people, to local communities, and also we want to have a leadership when it comes to innovation, research and development. We want to do this by doing a couple of things. First of all, we want to continue doing what we're doing. And also we want to develop it. Being there means increasing our service levels in Italy. We want to increase our resilience of water systems. We want to optimize network management. We want to develop collection and potabilization of processes. And also, we want to simplify our Water's corporate structure. But also we want to develop. We want to grow in Italy via tenders. We started participating in tenders. And also we want to make agreements to aggregate local water utilities. Also, we want to consolidate our activities abroad. We are present in Peru, Honduras. And also we want to grow and find growth opportunities in Europe, in Africa and the Middle East. Here, you can see a summary of the airlines of intervention. So increase in water system resilience, optimization, innovation of water network management. And first and foremost, development of collection and purification processes, which is an important engine of development by means of reusing, and reuse will and is becoming very important indeed. On this slide, you can see some examples of projects. Today, our company, as some of you know, is committed in a huge project, the greatest project in Italy, and it is the most important project in Europe. The new Peschiera Alto, which means -- which is a work that is the second most important work after the bridge over the Messina Strait. And it opens up an entire world of new works in the water sector. We have a dominant role. We are a key player in this field. But another theme is purification and sludge treatment. We have a very innovative approach. We have centralizing plants. And we have circular sludge management in place. Reuse is the future. It is a way to optimize water cycle. We have been committed on that for a long time. We are strengthening our commitment by reusing water also for agricultural purposes. And we have important cooperations in agriculture, I will mention later on. Here, you see some of major works examples. Now ACEA is not only a very significant operator, a key player and leader in Europe. ACEA is a large operator that is carrying out infrastructure works that are very important in the work -- in the water sector both in Italy and in Europe, major interventions. So we are finding cutting-edge solutions in order to connect aqueducts. We want to construct an innovative integrated water grid. We have concluded important partnerships in the world of agriculture because we think that water and agriculture is extremely important because, of course, agriculture plays a key role in water use. So we need to improve the water cycle. We are working with Bonifiche Ferraresi, Coldiretti on how to better optimize water use in agriculture. We are looking for synergies in water and energy. We are working on international expansions, again, on the themes cutting across water and agriculture and with a view to circular economy. These are the figures associated with water. Revenues are growing by 4%. EBITDA is growing by 7%. CapEx is growing and RAB is improving. Numbers or figures are quite clear in terms of our commitment on this important issue. Let's now turn to electricity, our second business -- line of business in terms of size. ACEA works in 3 main sectors. The first one, grids. We are the second Italian distributor after Enel, with 1.7 million points of distributions in Rome that we manage with innovative solutions, very innovative solutions. Then we have public lighting, in Rome and Terni. We have -- we manage Italy's largest city grid. And we have started to reinvest. We have managed to address a litigation that was holding up investments. And we also have commercial business. We are the seventh operator by energy sold, 1.5 million customers and 800 charging stations authorized in 2023. In this sector, we want to strengthen our role of second operator in Italy, focused on grid management and innovative services. Weight on EBITDA 2028 is 31%. This is our target. And our vision is focused on service quality, resilience and safety of the grid, which means safety and protecting the grid against physical and virtual threats. Electricity, again, our strategy on the one hand, we want to strengthen our presence. We want to improve services. And we want to develop. In terms of strengthening our position what we have drafted is a project that we have [indiscernible] Rome Ready for 2030. It has to do both with public lighting and grids, and they are closely linked, as you can understand. And we want to strengthen the medium and low voltage grid in Rome. We want also to upgrade -- to modernize, sorry, the medium voltage, low voltage grid to increase safety. We want to start the grid for dynamic management. And we have always introduced an important project in terms of smart public lighting, which is the future. In commercial terms, our objective is strengthening positioning by increasing performance and service level. Let's now turn to development. Development for us means developing other smart city infrastructures. We have presented our projects in Terni as well. We want to aggregate where possible distribution grids in small municipalities. And we aim at promoting an extraordinary plan for Rome for the electrification of public services, cybersecurity and advanced connectivity. Here, you can see the details of the -- of my overview. What does it mean to have Rome Ready for 2030? So our projects concern grids, but also public lighting, and also artistic lighting plays a role. We are leaders in Europe for these solutions. I think they are not known to the extent that it should be. If you visit Rome regularly, you might have seen our artistic lighting and so which testifies to our skills and capacities in this sector. In terms of innovation, we are gaining ground also in terms of flexibility of the grid by using drones for grid inspection. We want to be very innovative in public lighting. We are working on that with the solutions that aim at achieving remote control, smart sensors, video mapping. And I think that our contribution for communities may be -- will be very significant. Commercial. Commercial for us is an extremely important business, and we want to protect it, and we want to improve our performance in terms of service levels. We are working on that. We are completing the deployment of installation of charging stations for e-mobility. Figures. Figures are very clear. The revenues are going down. But talking about the electric business. This has to do with the price of energy. And as you all know, it is following a downward trend. Other important figures are EBITDA, CapEx and RAB, they are all growing. And this testifies to our commitment and the results that we want to achieve in this sector also. Environment, we are the fifth operator in Italy. It is a sector that is growing to a large extent. We have high margins as against our competitors. We have 25 facilities, EUR 1.8 million tons of waste managed, EBITDA 25%. We work in 8 regions, and along the entire waste chain. We work in collection, even to a small extent. But we are very active in waste treatment in the midstream. So we want to grow in terms of weight at national level. The EBITDA that we expect is estimated to be slightly below 10% for 2028. And we want to have an increased coverage of the entire waste cycle by maximizing circularity and managing end-to-end plans, streamlining the organizations and maximizing synergies in waste management facilities. The group wants to strengthen its position by means of reorganization of waste treatment activities, such as something that is underway. We are implementing the plan. We want to simplify the corporate structure in 5 macro areas, that you -- that are listed here, by enhancing the plants. We have -- we are investing a lot in terms of improving waste to energy facilities. We have end of waste initiatives. And we want to consolidate the plastic supply chain where we are already present. And so we want to increase margins, and by optimizing the cycle with important partnerships in order to ensure the sale of products. Development will be guaranteed and will be achieved by managing new plants with advanced technologies in partnerships. So the objective is to promote new technologies. And you see some examples on the next slide, initiatives that we have launched in Valle d'Aosta, very innovative, and we firmly believe that this will be a development opportunity for the future. But this also has to do with ancillary plants besides waste-to-energy, so carbon capture, bottom ash recovery, district heating and photovoltaic plants. Our objectives for the environment that we want to achieve, you see EBITDA is growing, CapEx is maintained at constant levels, with operational KPIs that will significantly improve. We are the first operator in ACEA's core sectors. This is not very well-known outside ACEA. We have more than 400 engineers highly skilled. We have 3 companies, and our revenues amount to EUR 116 million. We have national leadership in certain skills. And people working for the group, they are focused on design and studies in the captive market. We have strong leadership in lab tests for water quality. And we have cutting-edge solutions, processes, and research. And we want to maintain our positions of excellence by means of partnerships. We're going to grow in internal competencies and develop strategic partnerships, by means of internal support and services. We have a single [indiscernible] it has already been launched, it will be called ACEA Infrastructure, by means of partnerships, by investing on people, on the development of distinctive skills in the -- in leadership in the sectors where we lead. ACEA has exited the thermal production. So now production is focused on renewable sources. It is focused on hydroelectric, photovoltaic and with a good coverage of internal consumption. And the pipeline, we -- in the future, we will have 1,200 megawatts by 2028. Production in our vision is and will be focused on 2 main aspects. So aiming at carbon neutrality by reducing CO2 emissions to meet SBTi targets. And on the other hand, energy balance. So achieving full balance of group energy production and consumption. We want to achieve this by deploying -- by developing solutions that not only involve deploying existing solar pipeline, but also leveraging the implementing self-consumption solutions and increasing generation capacity from other renewable sources and by means of careful asset management. Here, you see the pipeline in Italy. We have important partnerships with financial operators. But our priority still remains cross-cutting approach on all environmental ESGs. And here, you see why. We have confirmed the achievement of SBTi targets, and we formally committed to achieving objectives of Scope 1, 2 and 3. We have a focus on green funding and we will keep on the same track, strengthening policy on biodiversity. We're also strengthening commitment on people development. And I think this is defined by the signature of the charter of people. And we have introduced a social impact assessment on all welfare initiatives. We have strengthened group policy on human rights. And our commitment is focused in -- on management incentive schemes and also promoting performance along the supply chain. So the targets that we have embraced for 2032 confirm not only our commitment on SBTi targets, but they also highlight our focus on reducing CO2 emissions. And this translates into investments, the investments in -- during the business plan period, about EUR 5 billion -- EUR 5.5 billion that are -- these are connected with SDG goals. The enablers are 3: people, systems and processes. For us, people means having signed the new Carta della Persona, Charter of People, which must be translated into practical things, introducing new skills, strengthening training and career paths and enhancing corporate welfare. Technologies for us means to focus on digitalization of the company. The company must be data-driven but become a data-driven group, and this is already happening in sectors such as water, grids and environment. And we want to introduce technologies. We are working on robotics, drones, GenAI and we are really advanced in using AI for water management, and we are also very strong on generative AI. And we want to do this by means of important partnerships with financial stakeholders, and we will announce practical initiatives in a short while. We have been working on that for -- in the past months. But the work we want to do will involve processes a lot, meaning we didn't sign in processes in a deep way. We will focus on buying processes, and this will lead us and it has led us to maximize our working capital. And this will be done by strengthening governance on all companies in the group. Our targets will lead us to reduce cost by 16%, but also to spend better in terms of investment. And especially to recover cash because we are working on this. We are working to recover payments from our customers also by improving our ability to optimize the cash collection. Now let's go to the targets of our plan. These are the targets in terms of EBITDA, plus 5% -- 5% growth, I'm sorry, which will lead us to have EUR 1.8 billion in 2028 with the regulated business that will be 90% of general EBITDA. This will translate in a growing profits of 5% in the next years. And with CapEx -- accumulated CapEx, which will bring -- get to 7.6%, growing rather by 10.5%. These figures are telling what we want to do. We want to increase the generation capacity of the group in terms of consolidated level moving from the previous period from 7.9% to 8.4% and this will have to do with all the sectors, water, electricity and the environment. We want to give more value to shareholders. The goal is to have a dividend per share that goes up by 4% per year. Already this year, I think that EUR 0.88 of dividends proposed to the shareholders' meeting is a signal. We want to distribute more than EUR 1 billion dividends throughout the period plan. And have an average annularity as higher than 11%. So the business plan is in the continuation within our scope. However, the company is still committed to allocating capital in a very attractive way. And we are always very interested in looking at asset rotation opportunities. Of course, this might lead us to assess transfers of assets. And then if we do that, we would reinvest that cash in profitable businesses, which might lead to an additional upside on EBITDA during the plan period, which is not included in today's presentation. Of course, this is done by preserving our net position. Thank you very much. And now I leave the floor to Sabrina Di Bartolomeo, who will give us some more details about our figures.

Thank you, Fabrizio. Now let's see the main assumptions of our business plan. As Fabrizio said, we have thought of a business plan that is in the basic continuity with what we have today and with a growth that is solid, constant and diligent. This is something that is already visible looking at the business plan assumptions because as regards inflation, we are linked to the regulatory decisions. So first year, 2.7%, then we will see a stabilization of inflation at about 2%, also NSP, which has seen a conservative approach compared to other competitors. So we looked at the short-term movements, also in the month of December, and we incorporated them in our decrease in the NSP at the beginning, which will then pick up again during the plan period to get to EUR 110 per megawatt. As regards our regulatory scenario, here again, we want to be diligent. So what have we done? We have looked as regards water at the [ MT4 ] decision, which gave us WACC of 6.1% with a deflator of 2.8%. And this was kept during the planned period with a deflator cap to 0. We wanted to be prudent and hopefully, we'll be able to deliver something more to our shareholders. As regards the grids here again, we considered the decision so 6% at the beginning, then it goes down to 5.9% from 2025 to 2028, because we have reached almost 40% of the situation of 2024 and the impacts will have in 2025, deflator according to the decisions, 5.9%, which is capped constantly throughout the period of the plan. Interest rates. Unfortunately, the situation we are familiar with it. There was an increase in interest rates. We expect also looking at the forward quotations that there will be basic stabilization of interest rates at around 2.4% on average. As Fabrizio said, we are Green and you see that. You can see that from the way our EBITDA grows. Our EBITDA is growing mainly in the infrastructure areas, water from EUR 744 million to about EUR 1 billion, net rates and the environment, and this will lead us to have a 5% growth per year. So from EUR 1.3 million this year, we might reach EUR 1.8 billion at the end of the period of the business plan. And the growth is mainly in the infrastructure areas we can say that we are a fully regulated operator with 90% of EBITDA in infrastructure at the end of the plan period. Now let's take a look at investment. Here again, regulated 91%. We grew in all our infrastructure part with EUR 4.7 billion in water, EUR 2 billion in electricity and EUR 0.5 billion in the environment. We'll have a peak in the first year as regard to environment. We already developed the fourth line of San Vittore in del Lazio region with WTE. And at the end of the plan period, we will see strong growth of the environment because we will also receive the contribution of this line to our EBITDA. As regards RAB, here again, a growing number from EUR 7.4 billion this year to EUR 10.5 billion at the end of plan period. So infrastructure, all investment in this part and investment that guarantees to our shareholders, a constant profitability over time and a growing one. How do you -- we see this also in our income, our profit because our EBITDA has grown in a cumulative way during the plan period of EUR 409 million. This growth is mainly regulatory, but it also takes into account the cost efficiencies that were illustrated by Fabrizio. We're working on our operational lines in our company. We are revising processes. We are revising credit management. We are revising reviewing and this is seen also in depreciation, provisions because they grow because there is an important investment plan. However, we can still recover partly of this depreciation due to a better policy in credit management and therefore, provisions that even if there is overall coverage on the credit that is similar or higher to the one we have today, they still make it possible for us to be more efficient. Financial management, we are working on all lines. We already started in 2023, and I think you appreciate this. And this will continue especially in the next years because we want to continue to provide this growth. Financial structure. Our financial structure is strong. We know that over the past few years, perhaps our [indiscernible] sore point was, in fact, our weak point was cash flow generation, which is one of the first leverage. We started working with Fabrizio in 2023. You saw we were able to reduce -- strongly reduce the absorption of working capital and this is a path that we will continue during the plan period. We've always worked keeping in mind our risk appetite and our risk appetite is that of not exceeding 3.5x threshold and to generate cash. The delta working capital proves this, that we will be able to do it. Also thanks to regulatory situations to absorb an important share of our back billing and apart from all the leverages on credit and with the control of DSO, we'll be able to provide extra cash to the group. CapEx. As you can see, net CapEx, we have a different figure compared to the one we saw initially from the investments we're going to make. This is the cash view. This CapEx, we use everything that is -- can be used and also the contributions because we will have about EUR 2 billion of contributions. So water would be the one that we received the most because, again, we were the first ones that were given projects based on the National Recovery and Resilience Plan, and we are very proud of this. So this makes it possible for us to manage our cash. NFP. In the first years, in absolute terms, there will be an increase. This increase will also be the result of the fact that we will have our contribution to the National Resilience and Recovery Plan. We will invest with the state, but we will also have investment in environmental development, the fourth line of San Vittore about EUR 100 million, and this is, of course, a major investment. Starting from 2026, when there is a decrease in the NRRP (sic) [ PNRR ] related amounts net investment will be a bit flatter. Because of tariff trends, we will be able to reduce NFP, and we will reach our threshold of EUR 3.1 billion. The entire business that was based on the idea of an important risk appetite from 3.5 to 3. Of course, we are infrastructural, meaning that if we are measured by the financial community, as such, there is room for investment, there is room for new investment with a higher leverage that, of course, would increase our profit for our shareholders. As we said before, we want -- we are trying to be as diligent as possible, meaning that during the plan period, we will work on all management leverages to manage the financial part. We will increase the duration of the debt. We will refinance expiring debt with projects. So we will do some project financing projects with institutional parties and also we will issue new bonds. And this we want to do it within a green framework. So in line with the SDGs. And of course, this will make it possible for us to extend the duration. We expect to have a better access to capital markets in fact, because we can boast our ability to invest in the green sector. As we saw -- we've seen we have about EUR 5.5 billion SDG investment in the plan period. As regards to our debt structure. Today, the structure is almost completely at fixed interest rate. It was adjusted over time. Interest rates were stable for a number of years. Today, there is a bit of more volatility. But if from time to time, we look at the situation when we have to issue bonds or to do some refinancing, we will assess the opportunity to move to a variable interest rate that might be a bit broader, perhaps from 70% and 30% variable interest rate, of course, based on the market conditions has been assessed today. So as you've seen, the figures in the plan reflect our concepts, green growth and diligent growth. We think we've proved this in 2023 because the results, I hope were appreciated by everybody, and we hope also future results will be appreciated. Now I leave the floor to Fabrizio I'm sorry. There's still one slide about guidance. Guidance, 2024. Total CapEx, EUR 1.5 billion and CapEx and net contributions 1.1 billion. Net contribution CapEx is growing because of the environmental effect. On the other areas, it is basically flat, EUR 1 billion. EBITDA between 3% and 5%, up compared to last year's guidance from 2% to 4%. NFP EBITDA ratio, we will work because we want to remain under the threshold of 3.5% in line with the point we are today. So strong growth, both of investment and EBITDA starting from the first year. Now I give the floor to Fabrizio.

Thank you, Sabrina. So we are at the end of this long and hopefully interesting presentation. So let's go to our closing remarks. I would like to reaffirm our goals in the business plan. We have 3 simple words: but they are very telling. The first is Green. So where do we want to go? 3 sectors, infrastructure with SDG. How do we want to do this? We want to do it in a diligent way, working on cost and investment. But also, we want to work with our people to achieve these important goals. And I think this year was a turning point this defining to our commitment. What do we want to achieve growth. Growth is intended for as value for shareholders, value generally speaking for the company that has to grow in terms of investment, but also in terms of representation of value in terms of RAB. These are the targets that we believe to be quite clear and showing the value of these 3 words. I think the most important one for you, representing shareholders, are dividends. EUR 1 billion dividends in the plan period is an important figure. We believe in this figure. We also believe that this represents driver for development for the entire group. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Fabrizio. Thank you, Sabrina. So the presentation is now over. We have a Q&A session for those who are present in this room. At the end of this session, it will be possible also to answer questions for those who are attending this meeting online. [Operator Instructions].

[indiscernible] Banca Akros. Thank you for your presentation and congratulations for 2023 results and the growth targets. I have some questions. The first on asset rotations, which is not included in the plan, but can you share some more information? I think this would be positive? Very interesting. There are some assumptions that are very prudent on deflators. And so what type of contingencies may there be? And if this deflator is aligned with the rest of consensus, what will the impact on the targets be? And finally, can you something on the dynamic of cash conversions of EBITDA in the -- for the duration of the plan, also for the tariff changes that will definitely change something for the business plan?

Well, first of all, I think that what we have presented is an ambitious plan, but at the same time, it is conservative in terms of the scope of application. It is a business plan that, as I said before, is in continuity with the scope of application. And we have specified that our assessment within the health and diligent management will also concern a critical evaluation of the opportunities to optimize our capital allocation. So our goal is to always review all the assets and we want to understand where it is -- that are better possibilities to invest our capital for the improvement of our business. Of course, some assets may believe our scope, we may have more commitment in some sectors, but I think it is too early to mention figures so that's why we didn't want to be too precise. And I think that you analysts have also done some research in the sector. What we wanted to help you understand is our commitment to what we have done throughout this year and what we want to achieve, so deliver profits and dividends that do not derive from extraordinary transactions. And this leads to a structural growth of the group. In the future, clearly, as is the case for any company. We will focus on capital allocation.

Do you want to answer?

Well, as far as deflator is concerned. Clearly, an increase -- percentage increase of the deflator will improve RAB CAGR and it will also improve our net result, of course. But we think that -- as you can see, the -- based on the various assumptions that have been made, energy dynamics and other elements, well, everything is very balanced because it is important for us to demonstrate the commitment of the company to work in a diligent way on costs with a focus on investment and with a focus on generating cash for the company. Clearly, if some assumptions improve, the coal group will benefit from that. With our plan, we wanted to express our commitment, a turning point in terms of management. And I think that this year's results testify to what I have been saying. So can you repeat the question, please?

Dynamic of cash conversions and -- back billing. Today, we have EUR 5 million back billing, which is something that you can get from our financial statements, tariff trends are such that we can have -- almost have our back billing. The reduction will start in 2025, so onwards. As far as cash conversion is concerned, in 2022, we had a cash conversion of about 55%. 2023, we have worked hard and we achieved 60% at the end of the business plan, we want to -- we anticipate achieving 70% cash conversion. In our opinion, and expanding a little bit on back billing, this is a priority for us. We are working with the authority to stress this issue. And the document of the authority testifies to our focus on the importance of recovering back billing and having a billing system on water that makes it possible to achieve financial neutrality which -- so those of you who have been following us for a long time know that water tariffs in Italy, which is the outcome of breaking down of operators. This does not help the sector and this has to do with the mechanisms, based on which tariffs are developed. And of course, this is not -- it's not very positive from a financial point of view the way tariffs are defined. And so we are the main operator in Italy. We will work on that, but I repeat -- so these are financial issues that are in general linked to the water sector.

Javier Suarez, Mediobanca. I have a couple of questions. The first one is a follow-up on tariff -- on tariff issues, and in particular water tariffs. I'm interested in knowing the solution that you adopt to increase water tariffs at Level 2 because in Italy, there is the situation on the one hand, regulators approve a tariff and then there is a second level of approval. So working capital absorption derived from these 2 track approval. What are your assumptions of the increase in tariffs at the level of ATO and net working capital equal to 0 in -- throughout the plan because I think that initially, there will be a negative net working capital because at the second level of approval, it is slightly more difficult to obtain an increase in tariffs. So that's -- I'm interested in knowing how you see the situation. And then waste management business. The second question, CapEx, if I'm not wrong, is flat and the area in which the growth is greatest. So what are the assumptions behind backing the growth of this waste management business? Because do you anticipate no plans, no plant construction. The assumption is improving the efficiency of waste management plans. And the third question has to do with the concept. You have showed a company that has a strong infrastructure business. And you have mentioned that similar peers have higher leverage and payout levels. Why does the company think that you will have a 60% payout in 2028. What do you think this is correct for a company that is an infrastructure player.

I would like to start answering strategic questions, and then I will move on to details. We believe that a ACEA today -- and this is the commitment -- it is our commitment. ACEA needs to make more transparent and more visible the -- its business structure. And how we intend to manage the business in the future. We think that -- so based on figures, we can draw some conclusions as far as the weight of the infrastructure business is concerned. Well, this is stable in our EBITDA generation. And I think this was not so clear in the past. The company has changed over the years. It has moved toward this direction. And so work needs to be done as far as we are concerned. We must illustrate and explain to all investors the true nature of our business. So in a very conservative way with a conservative approach. We think that unless this perception becomes clear, and this has to do -- this concerns all the players that are linked to ACEA, it is appropriate to have careful and attentive financial management and we must use parameters based on which we are assessed. We are seen as a multi-utility player. And so in the initial slide, in fact, I showed multi-utility ratios. Although EBITDA generation is very different between us and other multiunit players. We think that it is fair to maintain those targets. What Sabrina wanted to emphasize and to illustrate is that if during this business plan, there are some variations, we will very carefully look at the possible evolutions. And this has to do with asset rotation and with all the financial aspects. What we wanted to do today is to help you understand and this is the first time we have done this. The weight of the infrastructure business in -- for generation of EBITDA and the business plan aims at achieving these figures. I think this is important to help you understand the business areas in which we operate are infrastructural areas. As for the environment is concerned, this year, we have worked a lot and of course, our work has not ended. We have worked -- we have tried to increase the efficiency of our plants and so we have adopted a conservative approach. We wanted to improve the margins of existing plant. We have worked on investments because investments do not grow throughout the plan, but there are indeed investments. And they are aimed at improving existing plants which represent a good asset base. And again, I remind you that we have carried out work on almost -- on -- most of our plans, there were administrative problems. And so we managed to solve all these problems and all -- the whole management and I myself have worked on that. We have made a lot of investments. And although the asset distribution will remain the same, the margins will increase.

In the business plan, during the business plan, there are no -- well, I imagine a question that has not been posted yet. So a question on the WTE -- the Roman WTE project. This is -- this will be considered. So the realization of the plant enrollment, of course, this -- the revenues will come after a while. As far as water tariffs are concerned, maybe you can give an answer.

I would just like to spend a couple of words. I think today, we have started important talks on tariffs at all levels which is something that hasn't been done in the past or at least not at -- with the same scope. We have talks with ARERA. And also with other authorities, awareness has grown on this issue. Of course, we have to abide by the limitations or constraints imposed by regulators. And we want to speed up adjustments of tariffs. So this year, we have an issue with time needed to implement changes. And we are structured at all levels. And I think this is bringing about some benefits that will be seen during the business plan period. And I think Peschiera Aqueduct, Peschiera project is an example of that. The project lag behind, and it was stopped for many years. It is the largest water project, I think, in Europe. EUR 1.5 billion investment. It's a huge work and it pays the way to new investments. I would like to give an answer that is less strategic and has to do with figures Javier. We have worked by keeping the same distance with tariff caps that we have today on -- in the whole water sector. And we have a prudent approach. Now we have an average tablet tariff of about 4%, and we are growing on average. So the final growth is 2%. So we will have 5.5% in terms of yield during the planned investments. I would like to specify something. It is correct to say that investments on the environment are flat with just one exception that we have at the beginning of the business plan because we have revamping of the turning line of the [ WTI of TERNA. ] We started works in 2023. It will end at the -- in mid-2024. And we will construct the fourth line in San Victoria with a value -- a total value of about EUR 200 million, EUR 10 million this year -- sorry, EUR 100 million this year, EUR 100 million next year, and we will have a CapEx that is in line with today's CapEx.

Thank you for the presentation and many compliments for your results and also for the plan that is quite conservative and the assumptions are quite conservative. Strategic question, on water. My understanding is that in the plan, this scenario is not included. But we know that, as you said, there is a need in Italy. The need that government and ARERA well -- in-house concessions must change because industrial operators do not invest, only 1/10 of industrial operators invest. So what are your expectations in terms of regulations? With this situation be tackled when, what benefits may industrial players such as ACEA have? You mentioned in your presentation the fact that you could obtain new concessions or consolidate the sector if you have -- if you get these in-house concessions and especially in Southern Italy, where leaks are about 50%. So this is the first question on water. Second question water, slightly more technical, I would like to understand the quality premiums. They are one-off. But almost every year, almost EUR 30 billion in 2023. I would like to understand whether you have included these bonuses. So what are the bonuses for the water sector? And then Energy Supply. EUR 129 billion EBITDA, well it's quite a high figure. I would like to understand the impact, the loss of customers after the -- in the phase-out of the regulated sector? And what will this be -- what will the impact be for 2024? And in the energy area, where you have put together the regulated and nonregulated part, I think you have EUR 2 billion CapEx. And total EBITDA -- in the total EBITDA, you've matched both supply and distribution, and you have a very low growth rate. So I understand that you have made conservative assumptions of [indiscernible] and so on. But I understand that most investments will be in regulated areas, but it seems that the EBITDA in electric distribution will not grow to very much, although there is a growth in ROE. Can you give us some more indications?

As regards to the water business, I think the situation not only in Italy but in Europe, the solution of water is quite clear. The topic has become key for European development. This is in Italy, this is in France, Spain. Just look at what drought did in Spain. Therefore, the overall estimate that we developed is about EUR 50 billion investment in Italy needed for the next years. These are big numbers, of course investing in the water sector in an innovative way involves the ability to manage this major investment what we did for the investment in the national Resiliency Recovery Plan. We are the first beneficiary is clear. The company has proved that we can propose projects but also implement the same projects. So on the one side, we have a growing need which will go up to manage water because Italy made investment 30-40, 50 if not even 60 years ago, the Peschiera Aqueduct on which we are investing for a new line, the upper segment dates back to 90 years ago. So it is clear that this topic, not only in the central and south of Italy, where, of course, we have water losses on the distribution networks, but also there is an issue when it comes to conveyance. So we need operators that can manage these networks because water if managed properly, you can invest, introducing technology. What we are doing, where we are intervening sensors, smart technology in the artificial intelligence, which, of course, translates into lower maintenance costs. Therefore, we are comparing notes at all levels and ACEA, in fact, was also included by the government as in the [ Mata ] plan for Africa, and this is to testify to our skills, expertise, not only in Italy, we are very important in Europe in terms of size. And therefore, we believe that making specific estimates -- time estimates is difficult. Of course, our experience in Italy also my personal experience in infrastructure, but there is a general topic. Water is a sector, priority sector because it has a strong impact on economy. And I believe we have realized this at all levels, 11.8% of GDP. But also, it has an impact on -- also the water treatment area has become a key issue because water treatment means what I'm putting back into nature. So the pollution of the cost line in a country, which, of course, is surrounded by the sea. So this has an impact on tourism, the seal quality, the quality of seawater has an impact, but also the reuse of water for agricultural purposes because the use of water is one possible solutions. It is very important because the reuse of 4% might go up to 20%, 25%, meaning that we might completely change the nature of the problem. We are committed to this. We are working on this. And then there is another aspect, -- sorry for the digression, the quality of water. This become another key issue because today internationally, main factor is not only the availability of water, but also -- and we're working on this. We are leaders with our laboratories, this quality of water that is delivered in agriculture, human users and also for industrial users. We believe that there are important opportunities, upside opportunities that we have not factored in the business plan because it is difficult to estimate how to do it. But we've been working on this for some time. We have accelerated our work try understand and identify also working with the government all the possible solutions that can be translated into development opportunities for us as well.

I'd like to reply to the question on supply. As regard supply customers who belong to the gradual protection markets. Our clients who had very low marginalities, the impact of these customers can be neglected -- is negligible, about EUR 5 million, we will have them for 6 months. It's EUR 2.5 million.

It'd been different if we had a couple of words on this. The topic of tenders which all operators are participated 18 months ago, are tenders that represent an evolution of the market towards the free market. This is an important stuff. However, many operators participated with very competitive bids in the interest of end customers. We thought also following the numbers we had that we wanted to do much. We wanted -- what we didn't want to push or to exceed certain levels because we didn't want to destroy our value. We still have an increase in the number of customers, in the long run, but we believe that the use of other channels is very profitable and in interest of our group. Perhaps other entities which might have production, which we don't make different choices. If you look at the prices in tenders, some are extremely competitive.

The question on quality premium. Quality premium, as you said, was EUR 26 billion for 2018, 2019 than 2021, which was recorded last year, about EUR 28 million of impact on EBITDA. We didn't include these impacts in the estimates for the next year. There is a small premium level but we are talking of EUR 5 million last year. So this is not significant considering our figures. However, this is a 2-year premium that we had so close just because ARERA worked on the backlog. Even though I can tell you what we believe. We think also considering the evolution of tariff systems will reward as it is the case in other regulated sectors, quality levels, performance levels. And I think we have we are very well equipped in this sense. So even though we have not included this in our business plan, as you mentioned, and I reaffirm this, I'm happy that this is visible to some extent. It is a well thought plan, and we used conservative assumptions. But we want to show that there is a lot of work at site. And this is our goal, but we are trying in fact to deliver on this plan. Do we have other questions?

I'm Stefano Gamberini from Equita SIM. I have a couple of questions for you. The first one has to do with the financial theme. This cash conversion, 55% ACEA had this for a number of years. Now we go up to 60%, what have you been able to do to increase this trend, especially in 2023, we had a target of leverage of 3.8%, you closed with 3.5%. Can you try help us understand what you saw in the company that didn't work and how you can get to 70? Because the main element, the way I see it is the visibility of the investments that you are accelerating. Second question, still talking of the leverage. Of course, there are infrastructure operators, there are 5x your EBITDA, but agencies always give them [indiscernible] almost minus but then because of a sovereign data cannot reach that. So what did the regulators say if you go 100% regulated, can you go up 5x? Can we expect a possible asset rotation is favorable. Sorry, not the regulator, but what about the agencies tell you? Because if I remember, we can do 3x -- 3.5x and you can exceed that. Also, your dividend policy. If we had problems, do I defend my dividend or I'm working more on CapEx and I'm more focusing on CapEx and do I have a choice to make? Another question on risks. Do you see risks in terms of payments from customers? In the past, we did have this problem and what have you developed? Another question, the tariff increases over 5 years are about 30%, 35% in the water sector. Don't you see a risk with local authorities? You did have issues in the past. If I remember correctly, Slide 5 increases were blocked frozen at a certain time. Do you think it will be easier for you to continue along these lines? The same goes for investment. You have a number of projects. There is a topic of authorization and also procurement. Another set of questions, incentives. Can you try -- can you help us understand your goals? If you eliminate the new investment fund, there is an incentive on the net profit. What is the payout of the new investment fund? The same goes for RAB. Does it include the impact of contributions or not? You told me that in terms of CapEx, it's about a couple of billion euros. Last question, if you win the WT in Rome that is not consolidated line by line. So that one-off payment might was deleverage? Or is that not a risk?

I would say, Sabrina, you can give an answer on cash conversion, what has been done and the following trends -- trend in the following years and how you can achieve these results.

On cash conversion, as has already been said, Stefano, repeated several times during our meetings. We are working on all levels. We are working on credit management, as you said, in the past, there have been some problems. But on one hand, we have mitigated problems. We have system of selection of customers or clustering, dunning and so -- and the whole dunning procedures that is extremely effective. So our unpaid level is 2%. We have launched a very important project. We launched it last year and carried it out in a previous experience of mine. And I know that it brings about very positive results. To optimize credit management and as Fabrizio said, we think that this will give us EUR 160 million extra cash. So we are focused on that. We are deeply committed. So what has happened, if I may interact? So combining a new management with important experiences in the financial and industrial sector is leading us revisit everything. I think that the pulling together the experiences of the people who are working in the company is such that all the various aspects from purchasing financial management have been reviewed.

When I mentioned reviewing processes. I am really -- really mean it, reviewing all the processes. I have -- for many years, I have managed companies in very complex sectors, very complex industries and cash flow management was very was crucial. And I think that this will bring about very important results. My personal experience and Ms. Bartolomeo's experience is that we know that managing cash flow is essential. So you shouldn't focus on just one thing. I think you should have for the broad picture. And this is the approach that we want to have for the future as well, continuously reviewing and this is what we are accustomed to doing. We want to use this approach in the group. And I think that this is also reflected in the results. But this is the outcome of a deep and working in all sectors. So rating agencies, dialogues and approaches that the rating agencies have with us. Well, I think we have a very positive approach. We want to increase transparency and visibility. That's what we're working on. And so we haven't changed targets. Our primary, our key target is improving ratio. And as you have seen, these are the targets of the business plan. I think it is important to give visibility on how the company manages its business. It is a regulated business, and it will be even more regulated. And this is the reason why we have drafted this plan with certain types of targets.

In the case of further constraints, what would you sacrifice, dividends or investments?

I think that the plan that we have presented has a manageable risk level. My impression is that in all the assumptions that we have adopted, we have considered also the company's past experience. And I would like to say that you should consider that in the past 12, 18 months. So we have managed to solve all the administrative or authorization problems that have been pending for many years, both in terms of tariffs. And so we have worked case by case, we have made a lot of investments. Let's start from San Victoria, we were waiting for an authorization for new plants, and we got them for Peschiera and public lighting that was a dispute with a municipality. So I think that the company has worked very well on all fronts, and we have achieved positive results which testifies to the ability of the group to implement the project -- to deploy the project that it works on. And as far as the national resilience and the NRRP, we have deployed and implemented a very high number of projects and we were also capable of -- to pulling together many important stakeholders, and we have done that in a very short time. Another question on the collection of payment. So maybe I have already answered this question. As Fabrizio said, we are working on all fronts. So we are trying also to deploy solutions with external partners for the recovery of debt other platforms. We, managers, have a long-standing experience in the credit sector. And so we can approach the problems in a very practical way, and we can also contribute with a lot of solutions, and this will be beneficial to the company. Do we have 2%, and we want to bring it down, but I think that this is an excellent result compared to our company, similar companies. Increase in tariffs, water tariffs. The question about water tariffs and trends in water tariffs. Well, we have already touched upon this. The trend is, as Fabrizio said, we started having the conversations with various authorities, various meetings. And what we incorporated into the plan is different with the tariff cap that is consistent with what we have today.

So deployment of investments, are there any problems from the procurement side? Is there anything that can slow down investments?

Well, I believe that investments, I should always be considered very carefully. The company is working to strengthen internal capacities in order to be able to invest huge investment volumes. And however, there is a general problem in terms of procurement chains, but we have been working hard on the procurement side. We are also looking for other suppliers. We want to broaden our supplier base. And I think this will bring about benefits in the long term. And again, our past experience in other industries helps us. And so we have brought new skills, new competencies. And I think this will contribute to change a lot [indiscernible] or buy. We are reviewing this in a clear way, and we are strengthening delivery capacity of the company. Authorizations, I think that we can handle this in a very proactive way. And the results can be seen also in today's figures because managed to achieve a lot of authorizations. And because, as you know, it is not just a question of obtaining an authorization and then the whole path, the whole procedure must then be followed.

Next question for Sabrina. What is the impact on EBITDA?

FoNI is a figure that we know that is something that is present. It's a public figure. We have about EUR 80 million of FoNI so EUR 85 million on EBITDA, and we have kept it flat.

Next question concerns contributions on investment and the investment plan that we have about 2024 -- 2028.

This is something that I said before when we mentioned cash conversion. We must stick to a risk appetite that keeps us below 3.5%. So also investment modulation should consider this trend and it is supporting instruments such as contribution state funding, government funding. And as we have said several times, we have been awarded a lot of contracts under the NRRP. So this will help us achieve EUR 1.5 billion investment. Otherwise, we would have remained flat. What is the impact of contributions, about EUR 2 billion as I said. On CapEx -- what about RAB, so it's slightly less because, of course, there is depreciation aspect. Stefano, I think we have answered all your questions.

It was a question on the WTE in Rome, cash out.

As far as the Rome project is concerned, we have been working on the financial structure so that there will be no impact on the plan and on the group's outlook. So we are very experienced in this field, too. Follow-up?

[indiscernible], I was attracted by the EBITDA expansion, quite significant. You make reference to the use of new technologies, artificial intelligence. I was interested in knowing what are the key drivers for the expansion of the EBITDA margin. And so what are the technologies that will make your business more efficient? And this is a follow-up to Stefan's question on waste to energy plan for the city of Rome. The equity that you will invest on this plant, it will be project financed. Is this equity contented to the asset restructuring you have mentioned? So the asset rotation that has been mentioned in your presentation, will it be done at time when the investment decision is made. So the investments the WTE plant for the municipality of Rome? And then a more strategic question. On the role of the new CEO, how do you see the role of ACEA in terms of aggregator in the Italian water sector. The figure was quite high. Do you think that it is in your mandate to aggregate the water sector around ACEA in Italy? And then the possibility for ACEA or TERNA. The possibility of TERNA to be interested in the assets of the electricity distribution sector. Are you interested in selling those assets?

Well, I'll start from the last question. As far as electric distribution is concerned, everything that has to do with high volt, [indiscernible] TERNA has been centralized and strengthened. And this is exactly what has been done in the past few years, and I have a personal experience in that. Recently, the legislator has indicated the path that needs to be chosen. The way we should proceed. So the transfer of assets among various operators. And as you know, the high-voltage grid is mainly internal, but it's not 100% internal. Some parts of the grid are owned by operators all around Italy, including [ NL. ] So this issue has been debated over some time -- for some time, and it may concern also asset rotation. And the indication of the legislator are quite clear in this regard. So I think it is an issue that will affect us, but not only us.

Another question, waste-to-energy in Rome. Rome's waste-to-energy plant.

Well, the project, as you said, it is a PPP. It is not associated with asset rotation. Clearly, it's part of a set of projects that we are looking into. It is not the only project that we are working on and it's not included in the plan. It can be an upside. Each single project will be analyzed in terms of improvements for ACEA and this plan should be considered on the same approach. And we think that the financial engagement will not be too great because there are several facilities that -- there are several ways in which it can be carried out. And so with no major capital investments. And so that how we want to approach it. We will need to wait and see how the tender ends up. And this is why with a conservative approach, we didn't include it in the plan. Potential aggregator, ACEA is the first operator in Italy. We look at -- very carefully at the sector, especially in terms of contracts awarded and tendering procedures, we are making bids in public tenders, which is something that we didn't do extensively in the past. So we have a tender procedure in Syracuse, in Sicily, an area in which we are not present. We are not present in Sicily, we are going to Sicily right now. And so we think that as we have specified in the plan, tendering and -- tenders will be very important. Of course, other aspects will not depend on us. We will consider them carefully should the opportunity arise, and we believe that we can give a big contribution given the performance that we have, the performance that we have achieved. In the past, we have managed difficult situations. And over the years, we have -- we have changed the situations. So 2,500 operators well, if water, the water problem needs to be addressed in a serious way, the -- we have too many operators. And also the rules governing -- the lowest governing water resources is 30 years old. It needs to be changed and also investments, let's say, were much -- nothing has been invested over these 30 years on infrastructures. EBITDA margin an increase associated with adoption of technologies, AI, robotics will work on this as one-to-one, we will see which investment brings, which result is difficult to say because, again, this is an overall type of work on projects. We expect challenging goals. We want to recover productivity, improve processes as a result of more extensive use of this technology, which we will adopt operationally, but also at the management level to manage the company. And we believe this might lead us to take better and quicker decisions, more effective decisions. Again, also, technological deployment means being able to implement predictive maintenance. And this can do a great deal. So being committed in major works on [indiscernible] also means including incorporating this technology in new works. So they are designed, already with cutting-edge technology embedded. Also during the presentation, we said we have 16% efficiency in real terms.

Right. If we have no other questions from this room, we'll move to the questions we received through streaming. The first question has to do with debt cost during the planned period, which is our expectation and what we incorporated in our figures. I said we have an average debt cost of EUR 2.4 million. The second question for Fabrizio, what's our view on shareholdings or investment overseas? What's our strategy?

Our business plan today includes. The scope of activity abroad, which is basically stable. Also the group has committed to starting scouting and assessing activities outside Italy also in strategic areas. This is also proven by the fact that we are present in the [ meta ] plan. We are looking at some opportunities outside our domestic soil. In consistency with the guidance of the plan, all opportunities will be considered very attentively, also in terms of capital allocation and return prospects. And I believe the opportunities are in water -- in the water sectors, but also in the waste sector. In fact, these store topics might go hand in hand in a number of areas including large treatment. This is [indiscernible] in other countries.

One last question that has to do with the waste sector you have just mentioned.

As regards with collection, we do not have a strong presence in the chain. And since it is a totally regulated sector. It is something we might consider if new opportunities arise, we are present in the waste collection sector in TERNA and during the plan period, we expect to be present in waste treatment activities. We do have some expertise. The work we have been doing is that we have acquired a number of companies. We are integrating our acquisitions in some specific branches. We are trying to maximize the profitability of each individual segment. So here again, our approach was to make what we have more efficient to make additional investments. And when we are already present on certain sites, we want to maximize our activities and also to maximize activities on plans for which we have authorizations, but where progress can be made. If we have no other questions, we'd like to thank you all for being with us for the time you have given us. Our team is available for possible questions. And if you like, we have a lunch in the adjacent room. [Statements in English on this transcript were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call.]