Addictive Learning Technology Limited (ADDICTIVE) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Okay. It's 5:01. So I will just get started and as people join, it's okay. So hi, everyone. This is Ramanuj Mukherjee, I am CEO of Addictive Learning, and this is our quarter 1 earnings presentation. So thank you for joining us. I have with me also Komal Shah, our Company Secretary and Co-Founder. I also have Siddhant Singh Baid here who is our CFO. And is Yash joining also, Komal, Siddhant? Is Yash joining us?

Yes, he has -- Siddhant, can you check?

We'll also have Yash Vijayvargiya, who is another Co-Founder and also heading our -- now currently heading our content and sales. So basically, the numbers have been out about a week back. And so usual safe harbor, et cetera. And then -- so this is my first slide. So basically, we had a -- we had a really bad quarter. We had talked about it in our previous 9 June presentation also that we had a really bad quarter in the last quarter of last financial year. And it was a surprise to us and to everyone and -- but we worked very hard. And thankfully, a lot of things we have been planning came together in this quarter -- started coming together, and it's doing even better in the current quarter, but it already side coming together, which is visible in the results. So quarter 1 revenue was 59% quarter-on-quarter growth and 18% if you look at year-on-year quarter comparison. So yes, year-on-year growth isn't that great, not what we would hope for. But given that we just had a very scary quarter before that, so -- and loss-making quarters, and things were not going in the right direction. And I'll explain to you why now we have a much better understanding of what was happening and how we fixed it. So hindsight is always 20/20, and we can tell you what -- and I'll tell you today what happened in that quarter. But yes, we have been able to do a turnaround compared to the quarter. Our PAT, I'm sure it has disappointed many of you, INR 31 lakh against an operating cash flow of INR 4 crores in quarter 1. Good news is that, that trend is still continuing. August, like July, was great. Our best month ever that we have experienced in our history in terms of very profitable months and August continues to go in that direction. So it's not a onetime theme. Things are continuing in the same direction, the trend is getting stronger, which is good. Our H2, like H2 FY '26 and Q4 of FY '26 was -- we were doing monthly losses, some months we lost INR 1.5 crores, some INR 1 crore even, but up like we're burning money, right? But April and May became breakeven, a little positive, INR 30 lakh per month. I'm talking about our net cash, right? So net cash, how we calculate is the money that -- the sales we receive in our account, not the booking amount, which is much larger, but the sales amount, which we actually received in account. We used to call it revenue earlier, but now the definition of revenue as per accounting principles has been changed. So -- sorry, somebody is trying to call me. So this is the thing. And so -- but -- but if you forget the revenue, so this is the sales actually received in the account, that is our collections, right, in cash collection in account minus the costs for the month. Now why this is not cash flow because cash flow like some payments are made earlier or later. So maybe the outflow of the -- some of the cost may happen in the next month because of credit periods and so on. But if I took the actual expenditure we made in that month booked, so then that shows our net cash. This is an internal management thing that we are measuring our progress by. And our goal now is to make INR 2 crores every month, right? So in June, for the first time, we hit INR 1.8 crores. And in July, we did much more than INR 2 crore and August is also in a similar direction. So we hope that this quarter also, we'll be able to keep it at that level, which is what we had also talked about in our previous earnings call, right? So I had said that our North Star will be hitting INR 2 crore per month net cash. So we are on that note. So starting from June, we started hitting that number. Now about the profit, right? So we did an EBITDA of INR 4.9 crores, which is good, but then we did an -- after amortization, which is all the stuff we have built in the past years, invested money building courses, also in building technology. So that noncash charge is basically like -- so that is -- that will -- it was there in the last quarter and in the future also, it will be there for the next couple of years, 3 years maybe at this level. So although we have reduced our capitalization, like we are not doing CapEx at the same level as before. So it will not keep growing at the same rate, but it will be around that level more or less, right? So -- and eventually taper off. So we had a INR 31 lakh PAT after INR 42 lakh of profit before tax, right? So new build has largely stopped. So investing outflow was only INR 1.9 crores in Q1 versus INR 17.5 crores in the entire financial year last year. Okay. So yes. So the profit line carries the previous build cost. And today's business, real picture is shown from the INR 4 crore operating cash flow this quarter, okay? So the other half of the profit story, we -- so while we were reducing our CapEx, and we have also spent more on advertising and marketing, sales and marketing team because things started working. So you also -- and we -- I will show you like we did a lot of emerging work around advertising, and that started really paying off. So we did invest in advertising and marketing and sales and marketing and software and so on. So our cost, which is -- will end up a bit, right? So our cost is higher. So not much, much higher because our overall cash outflow is down, like in January, our cash outflow for month was around INR 8 crores. And now it is around somewhere between INR 6 crore, INR 6.5 crore, right? This includes the actual -- the cost as well as some capitalization expenses also. But overall, our cash outflow month-on-month has been much more down from that time. Okay. So what we had said in June and what actually happened. So we had said that there will be INR 2 crore per month net cash in about 3 months. And what happened is that we started hitting those numbers, June, July and August also on track for that, hopefully, September also, there's no reason to expect anything different. Monthly cash out go down right? So this has held like we had a -- the best month was INR 5.8 crore and then INR 6 crore and then it's around INR 6.2 crore, INR 6.3 crore, somewhere there this month. So we are able to grow our revenue, while the cost remains at that level and not growing as fast as our revenue. Build phase complete, CapEx will stop, I had promised and investing outflow in the last quarter was much lower. More frequent reporting. So we have moved to quarterly results. And so this will be it going forward. We will try to give you more updates. Now about what happened, like what went wrong in the -- specifically in the last quarter of H2. The first quarter was more or less breakeven. The second quarter was very bad and loss making. So what happened is that advertising costs spiked from October 22. And I'll show you the graph, it will help you understand. So a lot of our bootcamps unviable. So we were not able to organize those bootcamps anymore. And for some reason, I believe that this is happening because of higher Meta ads costs, change in algorithm, et cetera. And this happened in Google, Meta both at the same time. And -- but we are able to solve it. So we were like -- I took over ads, absolutely, like there used to be a director of marketing, et cetera, but now I took over ads, absolutely. I started getting into it from February, March and by April I was full-time out on ads. And then even how I'm working a lot on ads. Obviously, I will eventually set up a team to take over. But now I'm like hands on working on ads. And the result has been very spectacular. But anyway, so I will show you -- there is a graph. This is a graph I wanted to show you. So you can see here, for example, these are our -- the blue line is basically INR 100 paid leads, like qualified leads. And you can see in September, it was about INR 1,000 in October, it doubled. And then it was very high until March. And by April, it was down and now it is in the same level. Similarly, INR 10 kind of -- we call it a tripwire funnel. So the -- it was it used to be like INR 1,300 in January and February, it was still like INR 900 or something. And then now it is at INR 270. So this is the work that we have done. And then even the free bootcamp registrations, the costs had gone up to INR 250, INR 150, we saw that free bootcamp becoming unviable around INR 200, but I have been able to drop it to INR 50, INR 77 kind of average in the current times. So that change -- like this is a change. If you want to understand what was going bad in the last quarter and what really has changed now. This is one of the things that has really changed. The other thing is the sales story. I will come to that later. But this is a stark change, right? And why it happened, I will tell you. Yes. So what we did is this, right? So this is a slide which explains how we reveal the advertising. And it was absolutely a technology-first approach. So one of the things that we are very proud of that we did is that we created an entirely new AI-driven technology platform, which serves the landing pages in milliseconds, okay? Like is sort of 1 -- like it will be solved in like 1/10 of a second or 1/20 of a second, right, so fast. And this made a huge difference with our ads because Meta started sending us cheaper leads because our post-click experience of everything was so much better. So that was a game changer. Then we created an entire technology stack to create ad with AI. So what happens now is that we are able to launch 50 ads a day sometimes, right? So we are able to build entire funnel. A funnel that would take a month to build. Now we can build 50 of them in a day. And this is an AI-driven process. And the final quality of the ads is way superior, like earlier, we had like a 20-people team making ads, static ads, video ads, video editors, there were like directors who are shooting. There were copywriters were writing those. And now all of it is run by engineers and media buyers. That's it, like four people team running all of that. Although that team will change over time. But it's incredible what we are able to do with the current team with AI, right? And the quality is up, ad costs are down, which you saw the graph, how it has changed. Then automated deployment and monitoring. So when you are deploying so many ads, you need to -- the deployment itself is a process, right, wearing every page, making sure all the correct things are done and there's no wrong setting and all of that. All of that also we have been able to do using AI, right, and monitor it. So hour-by-hour monitoring happens, and I receive if there is anything wrong, so for example, if, let's say, for example, a page load speed go down or like some -- there's an abnormal jump in cost per purchase or anything and we'll get the notification that you need to pay attention here or you need a creative refresh in this funnel. All of that, we have built now AI monitors. So which is why we are able to do like cutting-edge work in ads, sometimes like we're mind blown that how -- what has become possible in the last 6 months. Then automated funnel audits and set up and everything. So these are already we are doing. So and -- so this is the advertising part. And this is really -- there is still more work to be done. For example, video ads, we haven't really cracked at the level we would like to crack with AI. So we are working on that. Apart from that, we are also seeing -- so what happened in that quarter was also at the same time, our inside sales also took a big hit. So our output like the sale -- inside sales team, the sales team was doing about INR 2 crore revenue, like it crashed from INR 3 crores, INR 3.5 crores to INR 2 crores per month. And we changed the leadership there. We had a lot of exits, but -- now what has happened is that the last 4 months, we had sequential growth. Every month, we have added more and more revenue. And now we are headed towards almost INR 4 crore per month. So it's already crossed INR 3.5 crores per month, and we are looking at achieving INR 4 crore from the sales team. So if you -- if you know about our business from before, you know that one of the things that used to make me anxious is that our sales team is not growing, or if we are growing the sales team is not becoming productive or we are investing in growing the sales team, but then it is crashing later on, results happening again and again. And now we feel a lot better about this because we are seeing -- I think we have tracked a lot of those problems because we're able to grow very stably, very predictably and very -- predictably is the most important thing, right? Sales growth has become stable and predictive. And there is no sudden spike and sudden crash. It's like continuing in the same trajectory month after month. So this is -- this also we have seen in sales, right? So basically, where do that leave our situation. So our big problem was that we built a lot of products, built a lot of courses, and then you were able to sell it for some time and not able to sell it later. That has changed because our -- now we can grow the number of bootcamps we are doing. There is -- earlier it was the ad cost problem, that is totally gone. Like now we are able to bring like as many leads -- more than we can handle, right? And then the question is that, okay, who is going to do the bootcamp? Do we have so many salespeople. Now the salespeople are flooded by leads because they have so many leads, right? And that can also be a problem in sales at times when your salespeople have too many leads, the leads cause the problem. So now we are effectively using only 50% of the leads. And on the other hand, we have a scope to increase the number of boot camps but we will need more bootcamp leaders. So we have Abhyudaya doing bootcamp. We have some few good, very good leaders. We have Nidi, Sagar, Jusjit now we need more of them. So we are training them in-house and slowly, we will be able to -- goal would be to double the number of bootcamp. We have double like our -- like after the IPO, we doubled our revenue from INR 33 crores to INR 66 crores. And that was possible because we doubled the number of bootcamps. So I will not promise again that we are going to double our revenue. But at the same time, we are working on growing -- significantly growing the number of bootcamps that we have. Now we are doing 8 bootcamps per month. Next month, we are looking at doing 10 bootcamps per month. And by the way, one point of time, it was down to 4 bootcamps per month. In February, March, we are doing 4 bootcamps in a month. And then now we have grown back to 8 bootcamps per month, and we'll grow even further going forward, right? So this is in our hands in a way that we have to train the right team, our sales team, we have to keep scaling patiently and stably without any disturbance, the same we have to keep scaling our bootcamp delivery team with patience and without any operational hiccups. So this is a challenging on that is the bottleneck for us. Sales rebuilt, yes. So inside sales also has from INR 2 crores to INR 3.5 crores per month run rate we have already reached. Based -- last month was the best ever month in history, we have never done those numbers. And cohorts, like we are hiring new cohorts, and they ramp up and become productive in 2 to 3 months. So we have to take the cost a little upfront, but we are doing it slowly and in a very measured manner. So -- but in 2, 3 months, we really start getting the benefits of that. So Yes. So we have a lot of AI automation, I'll share the list with you, many of you had requested me please share a list of the AI automation software that you have created? And what exactly is that you have created. So today, I have at least any question, I'll be happy to answer. So we are -- are we investing? Are we building in new courses? Yes, we are building new courses. We have like -- just before the call, I had a confirmation that we're going to have a tie-up with one of the biggest IITs in the country, and we will sign an agreement with them soon. And after that, will be like they are asking for like a minimum number of 2 days every year, et cetera. And the two courses we are really excited about whether this IIT or to different IIT. So basically, we are looking at doing course on quantitative finance, right? And it's already -- like we're working with some IIT faculties to build this course like algorithmic trading, right? Algorithmic trading and high frequency trading, building low latency systems. So you saw that there is a huge demand in our GCCs and from finance sector. Engineers really want to do this course and data engineers want to do this course. So we are building these two courses we are building. But we are seeing that the cost of building courses is much better now because we are not spending as much as we used to spend on our previous courses. And because of AI also, it helps a lot. And we are able to build courses at a much lower cost. And same thing for technology, we continue to build AI automation everywhere. Everything is AI-first in our company now. And we are investing but very frugally and slowly and not investing in things that will bring money a year down the line, but something that will work right now. This is the focus. So our three revenue engines, so bootcamp driven sales. So bootcamp usually, we are able to recover -- Booking is obviously much more, but we're able to recover INR 4 crores to INR 5 crores -- let's say, INR 4 crores every month to be very conservative. Some months, we have got INR 5 crore also, but some on -- let's say, INR 4 crores definitely. Community revenue has been consistently above INR 1 crore for the last 4, 5 months. And inside sales, we are doing last month we hit INR 3.5 crores, before that, we were doing INR 3 crores, INR 2.5 crores, INR 3, INR 3.3 crores, and then we have crossed INR 3.5 crores. So INR 3.5 crores is a stable number we can take. So this is what our revenue looks like today. And these are the three areas from which we're getting -- three engines, revenue engines. Refund is around INR 20 lakhs, INR 30 lakhs per month which has been stable, like it's around 2% to 3% every month that it comes. So quarterly score card for now from now. Okay. So what -- our internal goal is to now, one is increase the number of bootcamps, increase the number of salespeople and increase the inside sales number. Community, I'm going slow right now because it is stable at a place. It will -- it has -- like we have done enough to take it to INR 1.5 crore kind of number. But the bootcamps turnaround and growth is faster. So if bootcamp works, I don't want to invest in community takes it has a longer time line that it takes to grow because the whole journey -- the customer journey is much longer. But yes, even if we don't do much, this INR 1 crore revenue from all the communities we have created until now and all of that, it will keep coming. So clean -- okay. So this is a part -- good thing is that our balance sheet is clean. We have this much cash INR 2.86 crores and up INR 2.11 crore in this quarter. Also, we have INR 7 crores plus undeployed IPO cash, which is mainly for acquisitions. But I guess, although we don't need it immediately, we are going to ask for its reclassification in our upcoming general meetings. Whenever we have annual general meeting, we will try and get it reclassified for other purposes with shares -- subject to shareholder approval. Then there is 0 debt and net cash per month has moved into a very positive direction, dramatic -- dramatically. Why -- Okay. So one -- so these are two -- I mean this is like bootcamps is a growth priority. Why is it -- like why are you focusing on bootcamps again instead of let communities. It is a proven mechanism for us, right? And we have built a lot of products in the IPO funds. And if we can launch more bootcamp, we can sell more of those. So we can harvest what we have invested in, in a better way. So all those products are waiting was waiting for distribution. We expected our distribution to scale up very fast, right? So we built all these products, and now we are not able to distribute it. So bootcamps -- growing number of bootcamps solve that problem very fast. So yes, so both distribution channels is sales -- more salespeople, but we are doing it in a disciplined manner because previously, when we tried to scale up the sales team, we may stop and now we are more careful and more circumspect about that and obviously, more bootcamp. So okay, what is live? I had told you like we did a lot of great work this quarter on -- so we have created an AI voice trainer, which does a discovery call and then creates a 60-page personal strategy plan based on our proprietary data, proprietary content, and then it does -- it can even do follow-up coaching. So as you implement the strategy, it can keep coaching you. Similarly, AI evaluation, I had told about already before, it has become even better now, over time, we have almost no dependence on human evaluators and quality and satisfaction has been going up really very much. And for the first time, we feel like we are really a tech company, not just online courses, but technology is the backbone of our delivery. Self-service support. So now 25% of our support tickets are getting -- are not getting created. They're being solved. So we are continuously tracking where the tickets are more, and we build self-service mechanisms in our support hub. So people can solve them instantly, automatically with AI rather than having to create a ticket and wait for a human to work on it next day or next 48 hours. So this is reducing pressure on our support, even though our number of students is growing, the number of support staff is not going up because it's more and more automated. Certifications and refunds has been fully automated. So if today, somebody wants a refund, the system will tell them if they're eligible or not. And if they have any -- to a certain, somebody would dispute that decision to a certain extent, it can be handled followed by -- eventually it will go to a human. Certification, so if someone requests a certification or replacement such if you had a hard copy or sofy copy or name change to certified all of that. they can request on the portal, they can even do eKYC on the quarter itself, right? So our courses, as you know, a lot of the courses are government backed. So there's they are recognized by National Education Policy and so on. So they are getting like certificates from universities or from NSDC from -- for skill development. So eKYC used to take a lot of time, et cetera, and we built our whole eKYC module, which is now handling that. So building next AI on the outcome itself. So this is what we are most excited about. So what we realized is that our one of the core thesis always was services export. And people come to us also because services export is huge. But things have changed a lot in the last 5 years, like ApWAk, these kind of platforms are not doing as well as they're -- not doing as well as before. There is a huge issue with -- there is a huge issue with like the kind of walk people are outsourcing. So people are outsourcing more and more AI related work, AI workflow automation rather than doing the everyday job. So one is that we have been training our students for it. But they have to also change how they look for the job itself. And we have been building AI-driven software for that, how do you do cold outreach, how do you do customer segmentation, how do you build a relationship with them. And AI augmented, right? Because we know that whatever we teach students will not implement unless we spoon feed them. But AI makes the spoon feeding really easy and effortless without loss of quality and without investing a lot of money. So for example, imagine approach, which basically after your discovery call, knows enough about you and they can create your offer into 70 different platforms, not one Upwork, not one Fiverr, not two, three, four of them, but 70 of the relevant big platforms. And you are uploading the information once and it is getting created across all those platforms. So we are building, this -- our students really value this. Job-hunting software. So for example, if you see a job and you just apply on LinkedIn or on Naukri.com. It's a very inferior way of applying for a job. So if I want to apply for a job, let's say I'm looking for a job as a data engineer or -- and I see a company that have advertised the job. I will attack it like an enterprise sales professional, which is what that I will map that who are the five people relevant to this post, right? Maybe this person reports to the CFO. Maybe these are the peers. These are the people in the team. These are the people who are, say, and if five, six people, I'll start building relationship with all six of them. I will connect with LinkedIn, but also on Instagram, maybe I'll cold e-mail them, maybe I'll meet them for coffee. And I will basically invest that much time and effort in building a relationship with all of them, and then I have a higher chance of landing an interview or also knowing how to tackle the interview what is expected from the job. So this is the kind of approach we are bringing to job hunting for our students. We used to tell them to do it, but they didn't do it so now we are building a software which does it for them. So if you share job post, it will match the organization and tell you who are the people you should connect with and how you should go about your job hunting in for that particular job. So AI bootcamp operations, of course, you have the entire bootcamp operation is too very complicated. And you need -- even now they're like 20 people working on those processes. So while we are keeping the people where we are also heavily like automating everything which reduces the chance of mistakes or mishaps or someone missing something, which is still happening, but it is getting automated very fast. Okay. So one more big change in our company is that we are going to work from office, not all of us, but about 40 people in Gurgaon and Indore also 30 people, two offices, where core teams will work from office because we have seen that a lot of things get much easier when you work from office and much harder when we walk remotely. Frontline workers will still be mostly remote, but leadership teams are moving into office. This is helping us, right? So this is -- this will not -- there will be no significant cost increase office -- like it's hardly like INR 4 lakh, INR 5 lakh kind of monthly cost increase. We have created a list of the -- obviously, this is uploaded on the stock exchange, right? So you can -- these are the different AI software we have created for our students, right? So for lawyers, for patent professionals for academic or different audiences that we cater to. We have built all this AI software that they are using now already. This is in their hands, and they are using it. And this requires continuous improvement, and we are working on this also. But this is one big difference. Like when any of our competitors, they just can't compete with us because they don't have this kind of software, which we have invested over the last 2 years and built out. AI running the business. We have some of the AI products we have built for our internal operations that we're very proud of Mailbhejo, like LawSikho. So it's our own e-mail platform. The time when I realize I'm paying INR 4 lakh, INR 5 lakh per month for this e-mail software, and we decided to replace it with our own software. So we build this -- our team build this -- and it's basically currently -- it sent 4.5 lakh e-mails in the last 20 days. And yes, so -- and there's like -- it has AI e-mail drafting, AI body for campaign analysis. And also, this is something that like a job search or freelance work search, a very critical part for our students is cold email. And sometimes they have to pay a lot of money for this cold e-mail software. And they are not -- they don't like to go out and pay for something extra. So now we are trying to bundle it into our existing system. So that they can at least their -- first 10, 20, 30 campaigns, they can do with this with Mailbhejo, which doesn't cost us too much money and they start getting results and they're happy. And then they can if they want to continue using our infrastructure, they can pay us something for the cost. So we now even have like for our teachers and our educators, we have this answer lens -- so it shows who answered the most loner queries, whether the answers were right and whether like who are getting the best feedback. So these are internal kind of like a leader board we can see like which educators are doing really well, who are popular, what we need to -- what behavior we need to encourage what we need to fix and so on. ProspectFeed, so this is something very interesting, like. So for example, if you come and tell me that I want to get a job in U.S. corporate law in Chennai, then who are the lawyers who do that work in Chennai, who should you connect with. So we build -- I mean, people can figure it out on their own also, but we made this -- it is very easy that within their LMS, students can now find the people they need to network with. So this is something that we built in BootcampOS, which is basically automating our entire boot camp process. It's not live yet, but we build it and testing. So you can find all the details. Similar in placement, massive amount of changes are happening in terms of AI development. And that's the most important thing because if we can crack placement, and we have a clear delta in the market that people who come to us, they are able to get jobs better, faster, freelance work better, faster. There is nothing that could be better for us. So because in the end, people are looking at that. And by building all these software, we are giving the tools in their hands that makes it easier and easier for them to actually get those opportunities. So this is the story. Now Yes. So this is our guidance on the scorecard, bootcamp going up, collections getting better and monthly cash outflow has reduced quite a bit. Net cash generation is being good. And I believe that like if you ask me what is next for us. My goal is next is to hit -- like cross INR 10 crore revenue and keep costs under -- the cash outflow under INR 7 crores so that we can hit this net cash at INR 3 crore per month, right? So this is where we are. And on the U.S. university part, we had put it on hold. We had shared that in June also that right now, we don't want to work on this. But if we are able to keep this INR 2 crore going till September, my goal is from October, November, start passing the U.S. university bit again and start working with the regulators to get our approval. Pre-approval was done the final approval was spending, and we can start working on letting. This is my plan. Okay. So this is my presentation. Thank you very much. If there's any questions, happy to answer at this point. The chat is open, you can share your questions in the chat.

There are some questions in the Q&A...

In Q&A, what effect of the company as PM will start free classes for competitive exam? So no effect at all. Like we are not in that space at all. So he is talking about the competitive exams like JEE, NEET, right? We are not affected. We are in professional education. Most of our students are above the 30-year of age, right? So I don't think any kind of -- there's no expectation that at all, right? Do company plan to raise funds in 1 year? No. Because see, we are currently accumulating cash. And what we -- we don't need to build new things. We build a lot of new things. Our only thing is to build distribution. And there is no -- is it true that if I raise INR 10 crore now or INR 20 crores, INR 50 crores, can I be a distribution faster? No. That is not the problem. Cash is not the problem in growth. I have built enough product, has built a enough software where I need to spend money is basically -- I mean, distribution at best, right? But that we are able to able to finance on our internal cash flow right now. So we are adding cash on cash flow. Right now, we don't see any to raise any money. Have we changed our strategy for growth from growing sales team to focusing on bootcamp? No, it is both engine, double engine. International sales status, we are not doing in international sales. We are fully in India. Once we set up the U.S. University, which is U.S. sales are until then only India, fully India. There is some sales coming in Solicitor Qualification Exam from like neighborhood countries from Gulf and all of that in our U.K. country -- U.K. entity, but we have not actively pursued it yet. But might do so for the Solicitor Qualification and Canadian Bar Exam, we have become pretty eminent in the world in these Two areas. Canada and solicitation U.K. So there, you might see some international revenue, but not focusing not -- I don't even have an international sales team, nothing. Okay, what is the revenue guidance for the year-end next? I don't want to give any revenue guidance. I don't want to jinx it, things are going good. Every time I give revenue guidance. I don't know what happens. So I told you all the things that I know. You can extrapolate from there, if you want, but I'm not giving any revenue guidance. Why is our EBITDA percentage down year-on-year despite so much improvement operationally. Will this be the new normal? EBITDA percent is down, see, like I -- no, it will not be because that quarter was you were turning around from a bad quarter. So what happens is that -- what happens like think of it this that, obviously, January, February, March was very scary. So we were not investing that much. Then we started investing again in the next quarter. So some of the growth that we have seen in this quarter has happened because of the sales and marketing investment done in that quarter. So EBITDA is looking bad but in the current quarter your EBITDA is suddenly look way better, right? So it will not be the new normal. You will see much better at -- going forward. Lack of investment into buildup will not hamper growth as the company may lack in latest content. So that we are not -- so our -- we are still investing like INR 0.5 crores, INR 70 lakh per month in CapEx, right? So we have not stopped it. So that is enough for us to keep competitive and we are way ahead of any competition. We are not facing any competitive advantage. It's not like we are -- our competitors are shutting down because they cannot compete with us. While we are doing badly in ads, that was still one thing. But since we have fixed our ads, two of our competitors shut down, okay? One of them is a huge funded $1 billion valuation company, which exited legal education because -- like if you look at what we are offering, there is nobody who is even close to any of this value proposition. So that is not the issue. Our issue always has been that how do we distribute it out distribution has to scale up proportionately, right? And that has not been working. IIT Roorkee tie-up, how is it working? It's working great. It is working so great that other IITs are doing tie-ups with us because we also want to have more courses and more partners. What is the difference between now and earlier when you were spending INR 15 crores plus in a quarter with now at INR 2 crore? So you are building like huge course catalogs. We are building huge AI. Also, the thing is that AI development was very expensive in the past. We were buying a lot of data. We were buying a lot of stuff that was super expensive. There was a time when I was spending INR 30 lakh, INR 40 lakh on server cost in a month, all that is down. There are a month where I spent INR 17 lakh on transcribing calls, now that cost me INR 1,700. Now if -- like we got better at those things, right? So just to say that like we don't need to spend as much, but we can grow faster because of AI. That's one. So we are -- and we're still investing. We haven't stopped investing. Referral portal as it is a good source of customer acquisition? We have a referral portal. But to be very honest, build that technology, and then we need to work harder on it, but -- we just haven't been able to focus on and there's so much to do and so little time and management bandwidth is limited. So you're right, referral portal is a great way. And at some point, we have to work on it. But -- right now, the situation is that I am using 50% of my leads because my sales team is not big enough to handle all the leads, something like that, right? So can you name some of the competitors that have shut down? You can just Google, you'll find. I don't want to say, like people will feel bad. Then -- we all know each other, right. So I don't want to like this will go into some -- this will become part of some archive. You mentioned breakthroughs in sales with technology, how much has the ad cost reduced from 2024 levels to today? So -- I cannot say about 2024, I don't remember. 2024 ads, it is even cheaper than 2024 for that matter. My preregistration is to come at our INR 100, INR 120 per lead. And today, they are at INR 50 per lead, INR 40, INR 70 per lead. So it is even better than that time. CAC has really improved last month, CAC was incredible. How much cash we have today? Today, I cannot say, but it's around INR 9 crore, INR 10 crore cash in bank, somewhere around -- somewhere between INR 9 crore and INR 10 crore. We added now -- in that quarter also added INR 2-something crore we added cash, and we have added last month also. Do we have plans of buyback? No, absolutely not. These are not things I want to think about. So right now, I want to think about how do we grow the business. If I have INR 40 crores, INR 50 crores of cash sitting in the bank, we think -- right now, this is not the time. Okay. One promoter kept selling its stake during the year, any reason for stake sale? So this is a person in the promoter group, not so promoters are not selling -- I haven't sold anything. Now there is one person in the promoter group who exited the company 1 year back. He was our technology head and he exited a year back. And so thereafter that, he sold, I mean, we don't control -- and he sold without notifying stock exchange without notifying -- and he had asked for permission also from the company secretary, which was denied, and he still went ahead and sold it. We reported it to the stock exchange. He even had insider information, and he still did all this. We have dutifully reported it to the stock exchange to take proper action -- but if you ask me why are you selling, I don't know the answer. I personally intend to buy. I'm waiting for the window to open and I'll buy. And even I think today, one of our parents is buying, right, has filed a planned trading plan to buy more shares and so on. So we are buying...

[indiscernible]

Okay. Yes. So somebody -- Abhyudaya's father has filed directing plan to buy more shares. And I will also like -- if I can buy after the trading window opens, then I will buy, and otherwise, I will -- I have in the past also bought from the open market, again, we'll buy from the open market as soon as we get an opportunity. Any question -- micro learning courses? Micro learning courses we are working on. But like I said, see the priority remains that bootcamp, sales team, AI. Micro learning, I have a team working on micro learning. So we have some great opportunity on micro learning. We are building -- we have a lot of inquiries also on micro learning. But I don't have a clear number or -- I mean, it's still in a planning stage, right? So I have more to share in the future. In terms of course sales per month, can you explain that 6 months sequentially? I can do so from memory, but I don't have a slide on this, right? So and course sales is the right word. So sales which actually is around not booking. So last month, we did INR 8.8 crores, previous month, we did I mean, I think around INR 8 crore something, INR 8.3 crore or something. Before that also was around that only INR 8 crore something, INR 8 crore maybe slightly later than it -- that was in June. And before that, we are doing something like INR 7 crore, some months, INR 6 crore, so it has been like that. I mean I am not ready with the exact numbers and slides. But for sequential revenue for those not revenue the sales for those months. But if you have an interest, we can prepare this. How does the management think about ROCE? So see, like I explained that we invested a lot in building so many courses because we are expecting our distribution to ramp up, and we are not able to ramp up the distribution. So because of that, our revenue did not grow as fast. Now if our distribution grows, then suddenly ROCE also will start looking much better. And -- that's going to happen. I hope we are able to deliver that. Expected EBITDA margin? So this is very hard for me to say -- but it is definitely going up from the previous quarter in a big way. What are the list items management would like to achieve by the end of the year? Biggest lease item is hitting -- I mean in the next -- and this is not for the whole year, but in the next 6 months, definitely do INR 10 crore revenue and with a cost of around INR 7 crores and stay at that level. This is the first goal, like -- it was like INR 8 crores and INR 6 crores, now reached to INR 7 crores. This is achievable and just working on it, we have to just improve our -- operations, improve our like basically, whatever we're doing, doing it a little better, we'll create that outcome. So that is the first thing. And once we do that, my goal is definitely to restart our U.S. sales engine with the university up and running and with the courses approved. Did you have any management level hires in the last 6 months. Yes. These are good questions. You know what? I should get these questions before the presentation so that I can make a list and come. But yes, like we had some fabulous hires in the last 3 months, people who are making a huge difference mostly on technology, on automation and systems very huge, very, very good hires. Can we expect PAT of INR 10 crore in the year?

[indiscernible]

I don't want to comment on that. I don't want to comment on that. What I can comment on is net cash. This is what I will speak to. So this -- let's just look at this quarter, in the current quarter, how it is going, because half of the quarter is over. So I can tell you what has happened in the first half, right? It is there in the slides also which we have submitted to the stock exchange. So -- like I said, we did a INR 2.3 crores net cash -- or like it may not be INR 2.3 crores but INR 2.2 crores or something like that, let's say, INR 2 crores. So my -- if my revenue is around my revenue should land some upwards of INR 24 crores, maybe INR 24 crores, maybe INR 25 crores, maybe a little more. So that is on the revenue part. And then Basically, when I'm looking at my cost, cost is around somewhere between INR 18 crores and INR 19 crores, maybe INR 20 crores max, not more than that, right? This is my cost outflow and cash inflow is -- so it's looking pretty good. But then the amortization is the amortization will land with a INR 4 crores, INR 4.5 crores, right? So then whatever is left that will go towards PAT, right, after paying taxes. And EBITDA will obviously better because it is before amortization, right? And we are not capitalizing our capital expenses are much lower now. What are the monthly fixed cost in INR 6.5 crore cash outflow? I'm not prepared with the list, but I'll not be able to answer that question off the cuff. There is some data, do we have something in the slides? No, we don't have something in the slides. I can tell you my ad cost is around INR 2 crore month on year stable, INR 1.8 crore, INR 1.62 crore, somewhere in between. People cost is around INR 3 crores, I think, yes. Software cost somewhere between INR 50 lakh to INR 1 crore. Yes. So Punit, we are looking at right now, no one is working from the office, hardly maybe 5 people, but we'll have 70 people working from office going forward. We have our HR department as we do. But if you outsource your hiring to HR, then it is on to us. So we are very much hands on our hiring. Any other questions? So this time, it seems to be more defensive than all your previous con calls. I don't know, let me know if I can -- I mean the business is doing very good compared to better. So I'll -- if -- I mean, if you mean that I am more conservative, yes, we have become more conservative after dissapointing myself and investors in the rest. At what cash level will we start working on the U.S. university? So more than cash in the bank, what I'm looking at is having INR 2 crore per month cash flow, INR 2 crores, INR 3 crores. Not going to be spending that much cash, but it gives me confidence that my -- like it will not happen when I start working on U.S. and I'm investing money and time and effort there. And suddenly, my business in India is going off that, and I have to come back, and I have to focus here again, and I have to leave that orphan. I don't want to do that. So that's why -- I mean, I will wait to start that. But yes, by that time, I think we'll have somewhere like INR 15 crores, INR 20 crores of cash in bank. So it will give us that much comfort also. In the past, a major bottleneck were a host of bootcamp, what changed this quarter suddenly? So we have had internal training programs and there is a difference now. There's a lot more people who are able to deliver good bootcamps. But we'll need even more. So it is a process and it will go on. So for the current levels, we have enough people, but for growth, we'll need even more -- the internal training program that's what changed. Better people. We also get better after making mistakes once or twice you don't make the same mistake. So your next second, third attempt that's a higher chance of success. By end of the year, can we end up at a INR 24 crore cash level? Yes, I think so. I mean I don't -- if we continue on the current trajectory, then yes. [Technical Difficulty] Sorry, I lost my Internet. I'll switch off of my video. Happy to take your question. And even Siddhant, you want have any questions for Siddhant, he's our CFO or for Komal, she's heading our compliances. We have also Yash who is heading our sales, so you can address your questions to them, and they can come and speak. That'll be great. Any questions that I have missed I can't see any questions anymore -- are you planning an acquisition -- Yes. Yes, go ahead. Please.

Till what revenue in the INR 7 crores expenses be fixed? I think like what we have already mentioned, we're hitting -- we're keeping expenses at a INR 10 crore revenue level, and that is what we want to focus on and bring that stability to it. So the INR 7 crore expenses will funnel in the INR 10 crore revenue growth. And with the INR 3 crores of net cash that is what we're looking at. Yes.

Paying requesting to continue...

Participant is asking what are the recent carriers, which we are keeping an eye on, which can again derail our current improved performance?

What the risk here, which we are keeping an eye on, which we can again needs, which we can derail our current improved performances. Also, you told $1 billion ed-tech company, have lower education sector, so how can it positively or negatively impact us? Well, I tell from the finance standpoint, what are the risk are which we are keeping a -- quite frankly, I'd say unit economics, I mean, there's a difference between investing in growth and keeping very close on our unit economics. And I think what we are focusing on very extensively now with a very big clear north start metrics of net cash positive. That is something that we are keeping a very close watch on. And everything else depends on that, the compounding of revenue growth and the optimization of cost all are a factor of that. So that is one area that we're keeping focus very strongly on because everything -- everything else will be a subsector of there. Second question is $1 billion ad-tech companies that left law education sector, how can positively or negatively impact us? Yash, you want to take this question? Yash, are you there? there. Okay, I don't see how it is impacting us, quite frankly, like we had mentioned in the presentation is that we have created a lot of entry values for our competitors. As you can see, a lot of tech work that we have done for students for internal development in terms of improvement of processes and quite frankly, is that somebody may have a big amount of money, but when you have such high entry barriers, which basically has to optimize your cost. You see the per unit costs have gone gone massively down, and we were able to do that because of the kind of money that we had invested over the years in our technology. I think that entry barriers make it difficult -- and that is why it is very difficult. And I think that is something which is difficult to kind of counter. So I don't see any negative impact on our side because we have been very focused on creating those entry barriers. Yes. So the INR 7 crores of undeployed funds where the IP on that are not used? These are mostly -- these are our -- most of them been investment in bonds and mutual funds, which are under the compliant regulation by this thing -- which are in the regulations of [indiscernible]. So most of the part of that particular money is a hold in that and rest is about net cash that we have generated over a period of time, that is what it is. Can you feel an amortization time line for the next 3 years? So I mean it clearly said that since our deployment on CapEx, most of the heavy lifting has already been done. So amortization is a factor of that kind of a deployment. And now we see not much money being invested in CapEx. Of course, we will keep investing money in content development and tech, but it is not at that kind of a level. So the amortization that we used to create that kind of an impact...

The INR 4 crores, INR 4.5 crores kind of number will continue for...

Will continue versus 3 years 2, 3 years. But that we see. But like -- but if you're using that kind of a...

That's like INR 15 crore, INR 16 crore a year or something.

INR 16 crores, INR 17 crores in a year, but kind of now the North Star metrics, we see in current quarter the impact on it on the EBITDA and more importantly, on the bottom line will not be as significant as it was earlier, and especially as you would have seen in Q4, [indiscernible] major, we don't see that kind of a situation coming in again and again. We see that earlier as a one-off incident, also learning phase for [indiscernible] any further questions?

Requesting to continue con-call quarter. Of course.

That is -- so once you choose to declare quarterly then it has to be quarterly results at will be quarterly for sure.

Someone is asking, we are planning to use automated AI call in discovery as well as in bootcamps. Ana is asking, but the general experience is that AI is boring and not interesting to listen to so much long time. Can it cause long-term brand image issue for us. So [Foreign Language] So we know that it works, but it has to be worked judiciously ought use judiciously, yes and not overused. So that's what I think. The risk areas, when I talk to my co-founders, basically, we all agree that everything is under control, but there are two things. One is that bad hire in important places is a big risk. Second is that our ad cost ballooning like it did in the past after October. That is also a risk. If these two things, we don't have to allow it to happen. University approval in Arizona very fast, like 2 months, 1 or 2 months once we apply. So we have to be really good at keeping our ad cost down going forward. This is a critical thing. Is there -- someone is asking what is the TAM? Is there a cap of INR 120 crores, INR 150 crores? No, that's not true. But TAM is massive, especially that all the courses we have built out and what we are selling now it's not restricted to law, right? Komal you have to stop putting LawSikho here -- Addictive Learning. Otherwise, people see that it's only law. So yes, law can be maybe [ 150 ] but there is like every category is much bigger, like patent is so huge, U.S. accounting is huge, right? So our like -- it's not about how big is the ocean. It's about how big a bucket we have to take what we can do with that, right? So the on -- only our bucket. Can you give the split in revenue from different such as LawSikho? I can tell you for the last 55%, 45%. So LawSikho has grown back up again in a big way. And earlier it was around 25%. Now it last month was 45% of the revenue was LawSikho. But month-on-month, obviously, it's not -- we haven't prepared it. So what changed our LawSikho -- bootcamp, we're able to do the bootcamp again. We had stopped doing LawSikho bootcamp. We started doing LawSikho bootcamp. Most of the communities, the communities are huge in law compared to the new stuff. So all that benefit are coming. So bootcamp can be starting? And there's -- and they're becoming profitable on ad level and more communities for LawSikho. Will the 50-50 proportion remain for the overall year? It can remain -- I mean it's not something I focus on. But I know last time we will ask this time I check before coming at what is the current level. Yes. But it is not something that is critical for us as such. Sales -- like we will have to see sale, these are courses which requires some convincing. These purchases are like not something that is a necessity but more of a desire and a commitment, so it requires sales support. It does not happen without sales support. Which courses are more profitable? Skill Arbitrage and LawSikho courses are more profitable. Yash, any questions you see that you want to pick up from the Q&A? Is there any seasonality in revenue for our sector. You answer this, Yash.

So I think except a festival season probably Yes, except the festival season, were mostly because of ad costs. Otherwise, we have seen people buying a closer in terms of sales and roading and everything our batches out consistent and everything. So I don't think there is a seasonality, except whatever happens at the marketing end of it. Am I audible?