Agilyx ASA (AGLX) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Welcome to the Business Update of Agilyx, the Oslo-listed leader in chemical recycling solutions for waste plastics. My name is Elliott Jones on Clean Tech and [indiscernible] And we're very happy to be hosting and moderating the event. With me today I have Tim Stedman, Chief Executive Officer of Agilyx, who will be running us through the update on the company side. Before I quickly hand over to the company, just like to remind listeners to please feel free to submit any questions through the live stream, and we will look to ask the company these questions at the end of the presentation. On that note, I am happy to hand over to you to kick off.

Okay. Elliott, thank you very much. Really appreciate the opportunity to be able to talk to everyone today about what has been a really exciting time period year for Agilyx. So with me today, as Elliott said, I have joined by the CEO of Cyclyx, Joe Vaillancourt; our CFO, Russ Main; and our Chief Commercial Officer, Carsten Larsen. I'm going to run through these slides, but I'm hoping that these guys are going to come in and help me with addressing some questions to be able to fill out some more color on an awful lot of activity and development that we've had over this period. So if we move to the next page, then this is a kind of a new view of the way that we are seeing and positioning the company. And I wanted to share this with you in terms of really capturing the essence of what it is that we're doing. We think it's important to do this because we believe that Agilyx is truly unique. It's unique as being the integrated solution for plastic waste. Nobody else is doing that. That is what we're bringing to the party, so to speak. And we're doing that through 2 prime vehicles. Firstly, on the left-hand side, it is critical when you think about plastic waste and using it in a circular solution that you have an answer for how you can turn that waste into feedstock. That's what Cyclyx does. It is basically using feedstock as a service. It's developing new waste plastic supply chain. You're going to see examples of that later. It's building out a consortium approach that can leverage huge volumes to be able to address the challenge that is making waste to usable feedstock, taking cost out as you build availability. It's looking at how do you basically get the right feed to the right technology. So it actually is out serving the entire market regardless of which conversion technologies people are using. It's an industry answer. And of course, from an Agilyx point of view, we're remunerated on a royalty basis on throughput. Now that's one half of the equation. The other half of the equation is how do you take the feedstock and make it to a product. Well, that's Agilyx. That's the offering we have in our conversion Technology solutions business. This is really about licensing conversion technology to different players with different needs providing them with a specialized core equipment that can allow them to become part of and participate in the circular economy. It's an asset-light model. We're not building, owning and operating assets as many other people in this space do, and it's based on a technology that is robust against the reality of plastic waste. When you combine Agilyx with Cyclyx for partners who use both, what that Agilyx conversion technology does is it allows Cyclyx the maximum amount of freedom to access waste at the lowest possible cost because it's robust against the reality of plastic waste. And it's not dependent on specific legislation. This model is highly flexible. It's flexible globally. It's flexible in terms of pathway, in terms of products that we use. and that allows us to position this to provide a really unique integrated solution for people. So let's turn to the next page, and this is a kind of -- I guess, in one way, you can see it immediately that it's been a very, very busy year, and I apologize for the font size. This is just picking up since June, the things that have been going on with significant announcements that will be happening. And I'm not going to go through all of these in detail because we've talked about some of these in the past, but we thought it was important to provide this context. And one of the things that I'm going to do over the coming pages is try and reshape this activity into a form that actually allows you to see how we're developing as a business in the past years, but also how we're going to move forward and how we're going to develop. However, I did want to pick out a few key announcements that have come out recently. Most notably, the two in sort of yellow, I don't know what I call those, green or gold or whatever. So the first one is on the plastic recycling recovery facility made by Cyclyx. Now we've got a page later on, on that. So I will go into that in more detail later, but this is really, really important in terms of making material the proposition that we've had of developing new custom supply chains. The other one came out yesterday, and many of you have been anticipating this for a while, which was the move of Toyo Styrene into construction. And I did just want to make a couple of comments on that. First of all, this is the first project -- licensing project that we've had that's moved into construction. So obviously, we're very, very excited about that as a proof of concept of what we're doing and the beginning of the next phase of the development. I also wanted to highlight that this is a small unit, 10 tons per day. It's a first step. Toyo Styrene is very, very excited about this, but actually also what comes beyond it. But we also issued some follow-up guidance around revenue because many people looked at that and thought, well, it's 1/10 of a 100 ton per day unit. And actually, that's not the case. There is a scale and efficiency hit thing here that works against 10 ton per day units, which is why this is a one-off. All of our other units will be based on the 50 ton per day module. So the revenue expectation from us for that kind of unit is about $7 million to $9 million in construction. Now I also wanted to flag when we talk about construction, how does this work, because that $7 million to $9 million is on critical core equipment. That means long lead time equipment. That is typically what gets ordered early on in the construction phase. Now we've told you before that we are asset-light. We are not taking working capital risk. And so therefore, it is natural to assume that we will get paid early in the construction phase for that kind of critical equipment, which is the majority of that. And that, that would then be recognized over a period of time as that construction phase continues. But the critical equipment, the long lead time equipment tends to be earlier, not later. So I wanted to flag that because I think that there have been some confusion in terms of when this might be coming. We haven't provided that before. So I wanted to make sure that, that was a little -- it gave a little bit more granularity in that. The other two things that I wanted to highlight here had not been announced previously. So -- and we are super excited about this. This is a huge credit to the Cyclyx team because we are flagging today that both Dow and Sabic have joined Cyclyx. Now Dow, Sabic, Exxon, LyondellBasell and INEOS; those 5 companies are the 5 biggest producers of plastic globally. They are now all part of that Cyclyx -- this Cyclyx consortium. And so this is hugely significant, hugely encouraging. And I wanted to think about that later as we talk about some of the volumes and some of the growth opportunities because we have now got very, very substantial [ brackets ] behind us looking for Cyclyx to deliver volume to solve their problem that they have of being part of the circular economy. So moving on to the next page. Now what we've done, and I recognize this, is we've thrown a lot of announcements at everybody. There's been announcements coming out. They're not always in the same form because they're almost always with the partner. And those partners have their own kind of requirements on some of these things. And it could be difficult sometimes, I think, to understand how this all fits in together. So these next few pages, I'm trying to also tell a story about how this fits together and then how this translates to the future. So I'm not going to go through everything on this page because a lot of it you've seen before but I think it's an important way of understanding the -- development from -- technology development of Agilyx, the technology conversion solutions business through early commercialization and now looking into growth. And we've obviously had a huge amount of activity, but this sort of structures it in a way that I hope is helpful in terms of pointing towards that growth story. So last year, if you look in the middle, because that's really the tranche that's kind of the transition point that we've just come out of. We've had things like the 16,000 hours of commercial rates operation. We've got a substantial track record of operation and more importantly, of learning, learning how to do mixed waste plastic, how to do specific plastics like polystyrene or acrylic. What you're going to see in the coming pages is that over this period, we've had a massive increase in the strength of our pipeline. Earlier on last year, I talked about the fact that, yes, we have an asset-light business, a risk associated with that is the fact that we don't control when projects move from one stage to another; Toyo is a great example of that. We didn't control that. And we knew it was coming. We knew it was coming for some time, but the precise date was something that we could influence. So one thing that we can do is massively broaden, deepen and strengthen the pipeline, and we've delivered that. 50% increase in the business development pipeline in 12 months. The other thing is looking more maybe to the future is we've recognized that if we're going to take this opportunity, we have to leverage partners. And so in 2020 and 2021, we have been working on building out partnerships, partnerships in different areas with technology players with EPC players and doing that across multiple pathways so that now we're positioned to be able to leverage their support and their capability to grow. And so when you look to the future, look to this year and beyond, what are you going to see? Well, that's what these icons are for signposts. You're going to see projects going into development, expansion of that global pipeline. Also in developed, one of the things that we'll be aiming to do is look at new sources of capital to support those projects. Now we have one financial player already in our pipeline that we've talked about before, Aeon in Australia, but there's so much potential in that space to be able to move beyond just the traditional companies. We're going to have projects going into construction. Obviously, Toyo is the first one, but that's just the beginning. And then we expect these partnerships that we talked about to continue to evolve, to grow and to allow us to access new customer bases such as what we're able to do with Technip and going to people like Kumho, going after people who use styrene, not who produce styrene, much, much bigger pool of customers. So let's just talk about some numbers for a minute because, again, one of the things that I've realized is that with all of this flurry of announcements, it's very difficult to follow what's really happening in pipeline. And so we've been listening to feedback from various people to say, can we give a more precise view of what's happening in the pipeline. And this is what we're trying to do now. We're at that stage where we've got enough perspective in here that we feel it's appropriate to be able to provide you with further insight. So snapshots really of where we are in the pipeline. We have a huge number of products in the predevelopment stage as well as through development and now going into operations and construction. Now not all of those 10 in development have been announced and some people might say, well, why not? This is partly because of the way that some of our partners work because these would be joint announcements normally. But it's all consistent with the one project into development per quarter. And so what we're going to do is in addition to announcements where we can or when we have, we feel it's appropriate because we've said that we're not going to announce at every stage in development. We are going to provide this perspective as well, showing how the pipeline over time is developing and it's developing a lot. We now have a total potential capacity in the pipeline of 2,300 tons per day, that's an increase of 50% in 12 months. These projects are spread around the world, of being in 5 continents, 19 countries. And the pie chart at the bottom is really beginning to show how over the past 2 years, we have broadened the application of our technology. So whereas we were really focused very, very much on polystyrene. Polystyrene is still super important, and it's very, very key part of our growth. But we also have strengthened the mixed waste plastic arena, which is so much bigger, fundamentally bigger. So all of that then translates across to the chart on the right-hand side, where what we do is putting the context of our commitments for the future where we are right now. So if you look at our pipeline and you look at the tons per day in development and in operation, you can see that we've got 900 in development, 10 in operation. And you can see where we are targeting to go to by 2025, '26 to be consistent with the $200 million to $300 million of revenue that we talked about. . And we believe with our partnerships with the strength of the alliances we've got that our pipeline is in very, very good shape to do that without assuming 100% conversion of absolutely [indiscernible] because that would be kind of not -- and that would not be an appropriate assumption to make. So we believe that we have made huge progress for the pipeline and that we are well positioned to deliver for the future. So let's turn to Cyclyx. Feedstock as a service, that concept of how do we help people solve this problem. Now the history of Cyclyx is shorter, albeit that it was built off that fundamental Agilyx chemical fingerprinting that had been developed over many years beforehand. But whilst its history might be shorter, its development and dynamism is unbelievable, really, if you reconsider what has really been kind of very, very active just for one year, what has been achieved, it is really incredible. There's been a lot of formation work that was done between 2017 and 2020 as this was recognized the value of the data and then how do you turn this into-a business model, how do you make this real. And obviously, that all became more concrete with the joint venture with Exxon. Exxon, who was looking for exactly this type of solution. They have their own conversion technology, they believe, but they did not know how to get waste plastic as a feedstock into that technology. That's what Cyclyx was offering. And Cyclyx is now developing that with Exxon and with a broad consortium base, in addition to Agilyx conversion customers in order to be able to bring out this truly unique offering in this feedstock as a service area. In the last year, there have been so many things that they've done in addition to the memberships. It's been strengthening the foundations around the data. We're continuing to grow that database. We've established ISCC PLUS certification. We've identified numerous new sources of feed. And importantly, as I mentioned earlier, with this plastic recovery facility, really started making progress in terms of developing new supply chains and demonstrating to people how do you take cost out, how does this work. So let's talk about the partnerships, the memberships that we've been building out. And really in the last year, it's been focused primarily in a couple of areas. Current members are around 17, but there's a huge number of ongoing conversations across the value chain. But the initial focus was really on offtake partners, people who needed the volume. And as we talked about already, amongst those partners are the 5 biggest plastics producers globally. So it's pretty powerful from that perspective, but it's not enough. You've got to have the people who got waste. You've got to have people who are able to support the processing of it and the supply chain associated with that. And that is what Joe and the team have been doing. So you'll see people like, as we've talked about before, MilliporeSigma, Merck and Corning life science industries, people who need a solution for their waste who see Cyclyx as a means of making that happen. Now that's all good. We talked about it in the past. You've seen things on this before. But the question is, is it actually being translated into action? And the answer is, yes. If you look at the chart on the right-hand side, and I know I'm not showing a scale on this. That will come later, but this is just an indication of the fact that feedstock is flowing. It's not only flowing, but it's growing. So when you look at the data on this, and this is by quarter 2021 and now what is currently anticipated for 2022. You can just see enormous growth. If you look at Q4 '21 and go to Q4 '22, that is 7x the volume expectation growth. And this is all related to existing partners and existing customers. So this isn't a wild hope. It's linked to things like that plastic recovery facility. So this is real tangible product and progress that is being made in a very, very short period of time, driven to huge volume requirements of our customer and membership base. Now talking about this curve, this becomes an important angle in terms of that future growth because one of the things we recognize is that when you have people who have very, very specific requirements, and Exxon is a good example of that, then it isn't good enough to just go to the existing industry and say, "This is what I like, this is what I want. They are not equipped to do it. They don't understand how to do it. They don't have source material for it and it's extremely inefficient and extremely expensive." While this kind of plastic recovery facility approach to us as it says, "I have somebody who has a guaranteed offtake which is very substantial." We've seen the announcements by Exxon for what they're looking for and these units will be somewhere between 40,000 and 120,000 tons each. So these are big units. But they have a guaranteed offtake and these are with big strategic blue-chip companies. That is very, very financial -- sorry, financeable. And so this is now a concept that if we can bring Cyclyx's capability, Cyclyx's knowledge linked with that chemical fingerprinting, so we can find the right feed to custom design facilities just for one of these big companies. That's how you take -- go for huge efficiencies, big scale, take cost out and open up the availability of waste plastic as a source. So this is the beginning of how do you make this happen? How do you build the scale? How do you make it credible for these companies and tie them in to this supply chain? And so this is the first one. It's being worked right now as we've announced on the U.S. Gulf Coast. But I want to stress, it's the first one. There are going to be many follow-ons to this because of the requirement of these consortium members to feed, and that's the next page. So this is the update in terms of the existing customers around what they are looking for, and it's on the basis of this perspective that we are upgrading our '25/'26 targets for Cyclyx to 650,000 to 900,000 tons. So we're moving top and the bottom of the range by 100,000 tons. But it's in the context of there's much, much greater volume potential going forward. There is a huge capability here, and this is the kind of volume that Cyclyx will be leveraging into the supply chain to remake it for recycling as part of their program to drive recycling rates from where they kind of languish today at around 10% up to 90% in the future. And by 2030, this is wonderful. 6 million tons, it sounds great. Let's put it in context. That is about 1% of the addressable market. The chemical industry today adds about 6 million tons of polyethylene capacity every year. So this is fantastic. We have huge growth potential. We have the right partners behind us to do this. And the great news is that there is enormous potential even beyond this. And so we are super excited about what Cyclyx has done and what the future holds as it integrates in with the broader Agilyx offering. So let's turn to 2022 goals then, let's get back to the reality of today. And so I wanted to come back on this perspective of this unique integrated solution and how this is then represented in our goals through our feedstock as a service business, Cyclyx and our conversion technology solutions business, Agilyx. So looking at Cyclyx, what are some of the things that we are driving, obviously, a step change of volume through Cyclyx. You've seen that already. We will quantify that in due course. We're going to further expand our memberships, especially across the supply chain, the value chain, if you like. We're going to have a PRF in operation, a Plastic Recovery Facility in operation. But more importantly, we will be developing more initially in the U.S., but it is -- we clearly are wanting as a next step to start developing this in Europe and Asia, and we have exciting plans for growth globally within Cyclyx. So work is ongoing in that area. So there's been a lot of preparation work done last year. You're going to see a signpost for kind of announcements going forward. You're going to see things around supply partnerships. You're going to see things around custom processing of waste. You're going to see things around offtake partnerships and more, but those are some of the key signposts that will play into this future development that we've got. Then in the conversion space, conversion technology solutions, we're staying at the moment with our one project into development per quarter on average, that means 4 in 2022. Let's just be clear about that we're not going to kind of play around with that. But that's kind of how we see this moving forward. We're targeting 3 projects into license/construction, and we're looking at how do we further strengthen the partnerships to reinforce that global scale. That includes EPCs. EPC is a key part of supporting that rapid scaling. And then we're going to be working to look at how do we bring in different sources of funding to support our customers' projects directly or indirectly in order to accelerate project development. So that is something that we view as part of the solutions offering that we can help our partners with to actually enable growth and enable deployment of assets and capital effectively to build out the circular economy using this integrated solution. So you're going to see announcements around technology development partnership, around projects into development and projects into construction and licensing. Those are some of the signposts. The other thing in our 2022 goal is very clear. We made a commitment to you all back in August that we would uplift to the main Bors in Oslo within a year, and we remain committed to that and we remain on track for that. Clearly, just to reiterate our 2025/'26 revenue objectives, nothing new on this page at this point other than the 100,000 tons additional material going through Cyclyx. But we stay within that range, $200 million to $300 million in 2025/'26 as our target. So thank you very much for your attention as I've run through that. And hopefully, I didn't go too fast or too slow, just right, but we now have some time for Q&A. So back over to you, Elliott.

Great stuff, Tim. Thanks a lot for that. And great to hear all the strong data points on the Agilyx front and of course, on the Cyclyx side with those increased Cyclyx target volumes. Time for some Q&A you yourself and the team. We've got quite a few questions that come in. So I'll just kick off. Firstly, on the conversion to all your side of things. How is your technology able to take on board single plastic types, whereas competing plastic chemical recyclers can seemingly only take on board mixed waste plastic to producing oil?

Yes, Carsten -- in order to allow people to get other people, I'm going to let Carsten take this one because Carsten spent 3 years with them studying every different type of conversion technology out there. So he's extremely well positioned to answer this.

Yes. Thank you, Tim, and I think this is a brilliant question actually. Our technology is very differentiated in the sense that it's a very robust and very stable technology. That technology allows us to process single-use plastic, very specific streams of plastics that are not recycled today, but also allows us for mixed-based plastic. And it turns into -- blows down to different technology design. So we have a reactor with properties designed deliberately so it can handle those types, and this is also a must for Agilyx because we want to address real waste, real plastic waste issues. And plastic waste today is not very clean and very heterogeneous or very stable. We want to address real-world problems, and that's what our technology can do.

Yes, I would just add as well that 2 other things. Firstly, we don't use a catalyst. Catalyst tends to be very specific to a pathway. And secondly, we use electrical heating, which allows us to dial in the exact amount of heat that you need depending on the conversion you're trying to do. So within the same fundamental design, you can actually dial in the right amount of energy for the product that's coming in. If you're using a much more sort of sledgehammer type approach, then you can't do that to say I just want to do a deep linearization of a specific plastic. I always have to do this low [indiscernible] approach. So a couple of add-ons as well. Elliott?

Great. Very helpful, guys. Thank you very much. Next question, we'll stay on the conversion technology. A lot of your competitors use catalysts, as you just mentioned, and chemicals in the recycling systems, creating massive amounts of contaminated wastewater, is this the same for Agilyx in terms of creating wastewater? Or is it different since you do not use catalysts?

Well, I think it goes beyond just the catalyst that run on water, but ours is effectively a dry system. So we don't have any kind of significant amount of wastewater. Very, very minor amounts. We don't use chemicals that could cause an issue in terms of waste. So actually, I mean, I can't talk about -- I don't want to talk about other people's technologies and I don't know whether those statements are correct or not with relation to them in terms of what people might have heard. But I know that it's not correct with relation to our technology. And clearly not having a catalyst is something, as we've talked about before, which gives us much greater scope when it comes to what kind of waste we can deal with.

Makes sense. And then one kind of clarification here. The 3 projects into construction in 2022, does that number include Toyo Styrene?

Yes, it would.

Thank you. And then moving on to Cyclyx. There are loads and loads of questions on the Cyclyx, as you can imagine. One, just touching upon your new additions regarding Dow and Sabic. Is there any way you can elaborate on the recycling strategies of these 2 players, whether they have any targets or pledges out there that could maybe aid in kind of missing as to kind of build up the Cyclyx volume?

Yes. Maybe I'll take this one. And I think the next one will be for Joe. But I am very quickly on those two, Dow has made a comment about 1 million tons by the end of this decade. Sabic's commitment is a little older, but I suspect it will be updated very soon, which is more for the middle of this decade, which is 200,000 tons. But the reality is that all of these guys are moving their commitments further and further up. And so I think that we're going to see similar kinds of volumes out of all of them and probably becoming more and more aggressive on that point over time.

Makes sense. And then sticking to some of these -- some of the Cyclyx global players that signed up. One question here mentioning ExxonMobil, who've obviously targeted, I believe, 0.5 million tons recycling capacity by 2026. The question is basically around if you think these companies will look to use internal technologies or if you think that they will look to outsourcing technologies to pure players like yourselves or other chemical [ recyclists ] ?

Joe, do you want to pick this one up?

Sure. I'd be happy to. Good morning, everybody. Good to be here. For my lens, some of the strategies are sort of presented to us openly, some are being developed. My position would be that you'll see a mix of both. As Tim highlighted, different types of feedstocks and technologies are appropriate for a specific product pathways. And some of these companies have multiple product pathway strategies in which maybe they have an internal technology that addresses one and maybe not their full suite. So my guess is as the appetite and demand grows from some of these big petrochem players, you'll see a combination of strategies deployed, both -- including internal development and also leveraging third-party technologies.

A question on Cyclyx. Should we expect the construction of a Cyclyx plant in Europe and/or Asia in 2022? I assume maybe that question is kind of geared towards the recovery facility that you've previously announced and may announce obviously in the future.

So we do have a lot of active -- well, it's a business development activity in Europe at the moment. We can't really disclose of how that will be, but it is a combination. It's a little -- Europe is a little different than the U.S. Obviously, there's much more maturity in existing programs that we could tap into. There's lots more legislation and waste and recycling incumbents that sort of control the flow of material. So we have a sort of a dual-pronged strategy in that we will continue to develop custom PRFs where we would then help source the materials that would be appropriate for it. What we're also developing, as Tim sort of mentioned at the beginning that Cyclyx can be delivered as a service in collaboration with existing waste and recycling incumbents that they could just utilize our technical know-how with their existing infrastructure. So you'll expect to see both approaches from us. The exact timing, I think, will be more visible in the next 6 months or so.

Makes sense. Quite a few questions here around the, I know, Tim, you mentioned the company goals just then. One specific question here around listing venue [indiscernible] and Europe, an international company with U.S. operations. What made you kind of gravitate towards Oslo? And do you see a potential of you listing perhaps in the U.S. in the future?

Look, I think the reason why Oslo was chosen was really 2 factors. One is that it was and it is a location that, I think, puts a high value -- sort of high appreciation is the way I put it, because I don't want to get to talk about value in terms of dollars but about high appreciation and a high focus on ESG, and that's clearly where we sit. And so there's a lot of people that want to be involved in that, and it's -- that feels like -- and it remains a very good home for us. The other thing, of course, is that one of our main shareholders is based in Oslo. So from a couple of different angles, it made a lot of sense. It remains a place that we think is appropriate and right for us. And so we're very happy to be talking about and focused on uplisting to the main Bors in Oslo. Obviously, one of the things that we announced not very long ago, and we will be leveraging is the OTCQX listing. That's early days at this point in time, but that allows maybe a more straightforward access to U.S. investors to be able to invest in Agilyx in Oslo. And so we think that that's the right approach for us at this point in time and hence the focus on uplifting there as opposed to going and doing anything anywhere else. And so that's very much our plan for 2022.

Makes sense. Thank you. Quite a few further questions, so I'll rattle through them. Regards to Cyclyx again, can you describe the agreement you have with General Electric? And what is the status of this agreement and what they bring to the table?

Yes. Joe, do you want to pick this one up again or...

Yes. Sure. So one of the attributes of the Cyclyx model is the complexity around the data management, right? And it transcends both from a technical perspective in that. If you think about the demand of a particular facility, it could be upwards of 1,000 different sources of feed. And for us to maintain ISCC PLUS certification, every single shipment of material has to be tracked. We have to track it through all of the supply chain elements all the way through delivery. And somewhere in there, we need to preprocess and mix the custom mix for that product pathway. It's very data intensive, but it also could benefit from artificial intelligence algorithms. And so the relationship with GE was a multiproduct or a multi-series of AI tools that help us with advancing the chemistry management. So when we get up -- when we find a new source of material, we test what it is. We then can put it into the GE tools that help us understand what product pathways that product could be used for. It can allow us sub-recipe calculations. And so that's the first tool. The second tool has a little bit more to do with the supply chain and the cost efficiency. So we're using a different set of AI tools to sort of manage how material flows and the efficiencies under which to do so. So there's a lot of integration for the tool sets that GE is providing that will allow us to scale more efficiently in the future.

Very clear. Thanks, Joe. A more broad question now. Increasing the recycle rate seems to hit both the reduction of waste and the reduction of emissions. And yet chemical recycling industry is yet to catch fire, what are the key ingredients you think yourselves and the broader market needs in order to flourish.

Yes. I think it's a great question because it points to that chart that I showed from a Cyclyx perspective, which, of course, gets translated out into a conversion perspective as well around the enormous opportunity. I think that in terms of the key elements that need to happen is we have to find solutions to the things that people believe are getting in the way. One of those things is how do you make ways to use full feedstock, that's what Cyclyx is doing. And I think when you look at the membership base that it's got and the players that are involved, I mean it's kind of difficult to overstate this. If you've been in the industry, you know it. Dow and Exxon joining the same thing is a big deal because those 2 -- some of these combinations don't naturally fit together. But there is a recognition that actually we need to work differently within the chemical industry. So that's really important. But the other thing is people recognizing that the conversion technology is capable of delivering at the right level at the right economics, a solution to make plastic circular, that's what we're doing on the Agilyx conversion business -- the conversion solutions business. And so I think that we've got the ingredients are all there now, and that's why we sort of positioned it as we are ready to really accelerate and grow because these things have been proven now. These things are happening. And so this is now becoming an area where other people are getting interested. People who are, I think, prepared to move faster. That's why I talked about different sources of capital, people who want to deploy money into these projects to drive change. Sometimes I would prefer to it as the Tesla moment. I never compare us to Tesla, but the fact that you need a disruptor to come in and challenge the sort of existing status quo to really make that move. And I think that this industry is approaching that point. And I think Agilyx and Cyclyx have a unique offering in there to make it happen.

Thanks, Tim. Just one more kind of broader question on Cyclyx maybe for Joe. Basically touching upon essentially how Cyclyx works and how it will work with, for example, municipalities, how you guys are set up to work with municipalities and maybe other waste managers and potentially it was who you would prefer to kind of obtain waste plastic from?

Yes, it's a good question. It's -- there's a lot in that question. So when we think about Cyclyx, it's operationally doing 2 fundamental things. In the first instance, when we talk about increasing recycling of plastics from 10% to 90%, the first challenge is how do you find plastics that currently are not recyclable and find product pathways that would allow it to then be used as a resource. And we do, do that through our -- what Tim referred to as chemical fingerprinting. Once we sort of understand what it can be used for, then you have to move it. But to move it, that implies you have to get it. So today, most of the recycling industries, and I'm all were generalizing, but only receive waste plastics that they know they can put on the market in a fungible way and sell. So if you go to a particular municipality and you look at their single-stream recycling programs and you look at what's allowed in or maybe more importantly what they don't want in the recycling, there's a huge amount of plastics that don't even wind up in the [ bend ]. So in addition for us understanding what products can be made from waste plastics, we then have to help sort of attract new plastics into the supply chain. And we do that in a couple of different ways. In the first instance, we can work with existing waste and recycling companies. And if they've got 2/3 or 50% of the recycling that they bring in that they don't have a home for, we can certainly find a way to use it. However, we do need to find new materials. So we're encouraging and working with many municipalities. It's unfortunate we're right on the verge of a notable announcement, but we're excited to launch a municipal program where we're encouraging folks to give us the plastics that currently don't go into the system. That is a principal program with municipalities, but we're producing take-back programs based on that municipal program that could then be launched independently through retail and corporations and just local communities without municipal engagement. So you'll see a lot on that this year because, ultimately, for this chemical industry to grow, the amount of waste plastics needs to increase that comes into the system. Very easy thing to think about is the types of plastics with fire retardants in it today are not welcomed at all and we can take that material and recycle it. So this is -- this whole concept of helping create a supply chain is somewhat disruptive and needed, and it's a key strategy for our next 24 months.

Makes sense. Another couple on Toyo Styrene on the recent years. I can put these 2 together. Firstly, what is -- can you just shed some light on the total CapEx for the Toyo project? And I believe that's the total project CapEx. And secondly, considering you are guiding construction revenues of $7 million to $9 million, how much should we expect for a generic 50-ton plant?

Yes. I mean actually, it's a great question because actually the number for a 50-ton plant isn't dramatically different. And this is one of the reasons why you're not going to see very many 10-ton-per-day plants because at that level, it's just not efficient. In terms of the kind of total cost, that obviously is a Toyo Styrene number, not ours. And the total cost in any situation is very much dependent on what else do they have and what else do they need and what is the scope of the overall unit as it integrates back into their systems. But I think what we've shared for the 100 ton per day plant is that the core equipment in terms of the total cost of the unit to a partner is somewhere in the region of 20% of the total cost. And so it just gives you a flavor for when these companies go into construction, yes, it's nice for us. That's what drives our revenue very, very significantly. That's a big step change for us, but it's a huge commitment for them, whether that's a strategic chemical company or in the future, may be an infrastructure player or somebody else that's wanting to come into this space, that's the big difference in terms of the commitment. And that's why this step with Toyo Styrene is so important in terms of the validation's.

Makes sense. And then we have time for one more, quite a few people doing some maths and back-of-the-envelope calculations to try and get to your mid-decade target of $200 million to $300 million sales a year. People seem to be kind of zoning in on the cyclic side of things. And yes, there's a lot of questions around how people should think about, how you get paid through Cyclyx, the Cyclyx royalty, if that's going to increase or decrease depending on volumes, and what the margins are. Is there any way you can kind of try and help us kind of understand maybe how that's going to work?

Yes. We've shared previously some insight into that regarding the numbers, but we have been steer clear of providing specific numbers ourselves on royalty through Cyclyx. And look, I know everybody wants to see that, but that is extremely commercially sensitive, as you can imagine with the type of companies that we are dealing with. So there are analyst estimates out there that we have kind of rebroadcast, if you like. And I think that's kind of -- those are numbers that people can use. The key thing is that as we are successful in taking cost out, the absolute royalty goes up. So thinking about royalty as a percentage, I think, is the wrong way to be considering it because what Joe and his team are trying to do is actually drive down the unit revenue of feedstock that they supply to their customers, they're trying to take cost out. But as they're successful in doing that, the unit royalty to Agilyx goes up. It's basically saying, look, we've been successful in delivering the program to you. We have provided you with feedstock, the right feedstock to enable your system to work, we've been able to provide it at a lower cost. And if we're able to do that, we take a higher royalty. So it's a win-win situation for us and a consortium member. So it's -- I think it's better to think about it on an absolute basis than it is on a percent basis as you model that. But that's -- I can't go into further detail on that because of the commercial sensitivity.

Understood. [indiscernible] And maybe we have time for one more question that's just come in. Yes, there's been a lot of talk with regards to kind of recycling and pyrolysis technology, in particular, around emissions, whether to look at that as an absolute value of emission or maybe to compare it to virgin production and incineration. Yes, there's just a question here around emissions and carbon reductions of your technology versus maybe competing technologies and also virgin use and mechanical recycling. Is there any kind of helpful data points-you could give us on that front?

Yes. So we shared a study that was done with our support by SCS, the Styrenic Circular Solutions, which showed a 75% reduction versus of -- on the LTA versus material going through to incineration. But the reality is that -- and our steps that we've taken, which by the way, wasn't in there of moving towards renewable -- 100% renewable electricity would further enhance that. So there is no debate that by comparison to virgin material, it is substantially lower. Now when you compare one technology to another, you have to be very careful about where do you draw the box because there's lots of different types of pyrolysis. There's lots of different types of potential conversion solutions out there. But bear in mind what have you got to do to the feedstock, to the waste in order to get it in there, because there's a number of -- you've got to look at this end to end. You've got to include the amount of energy and potential emissions that you have from that processing piece, especially if your conversion technology is one that requires a very specific type of ways to very clean type of ways, process to a certain size, all of those kind of things. And there can be a huge, huge emissions load on that processing, which has nothing to do just purely to the conversion stat. We believe that because we can deal with waste with very little touches, very few touches in very efficient ways through Cyclyx, given that with our 100% renewable offering in the pyrolysis phase with very, very limited things like wastewater, then actually end-to-end, we have a very good offering. And we will be doing more work on supporting our customers to be very specific about certain installations because again, we don't actually build and operate the units but they have to be integrated in with their systems. And so we will be doing more work in that space to help our customers understand how to optimize that as well end-to-end, including the wasted feedstock.

Great stuff, Tim. On that note, unfortunately, I think we're out of time. So that concludes the business update from Agilyx. It's been extremely interesting and insightful. I want to thank Tim and team to share Agilyx's endeavors of the company. And -- Of course, thank you to everyone that's starting. We look forward to continuing following the story further.

Thank you very much. Really enjoyed the opportunity to present Agilyx and Cyclyx.

Thanks a lot.

Thank you. Bye-bye.