Ahluwalia Contracts (India) Limited (532811) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Ahluwalia Contracts India Limited Q4 FY '21 Post Results Analyst Conference Call hosted by Ambit Capital Private Limited. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Varun Ginodia from Ambit Capital. Thank you. And over to you, sir.

Thank you. Thank you so much, Nirav. And good afternoon, everyone. And I wish and I hope everyone is in -- keeping in good health. We welcome everyone to Ahluwalia Contracts 4Q FY '21 Post Results Earnings Call. Today, we have from the management, Mr. Shobhit Uppal, Deputy Managing Director; Mr. Vikas Ahluwalia, Director; and Mr. Satbeer Singh, CFO. In terms of flow of the call, Mr. Shobhit Uppal will give some opening remarks, and then we will open the floor to Q&A. Sir, over to you.

Thanks, Varun. Thanks, Nirav. Good afternoon, everybody. Welcome to this results call year ending FY '21 financial results for Ahluwalia Contracts. During Q4 FY '21, the company has achieved a turnover of INR 761.70 crores and a PAT of INR 37.07 crores in comparison to a turnover of INR 549.22 crores and a PAT of INR 6.10 crores in Q4 of FY '20. EPS of the company for Q4 FY '21 is INR 5.53 as compared to INR 0.91 in Q4 of FY '20. During Q4 FY '21, the company's EBITDA margin is 9.62% as compared to 4.71% and a PAT margin of 4.87% as compared to 1.11% in the corresponding period of the last financial year. During the financial year '20/'21, the company achieved a turnover of INR 1,982.19 crores and a PAT of INR 77.24 crores in comparison to a turnover of INR 1,884.93 crores and a PAT of INR 64.44 crores in the financial year '19/'20. EPS of the company for FY '20/'21 is INR 11.53 as compared to INR 9.62 in the financial year '19/'20. During the financial year '20/'21, the company's EBITDA margin is 8.91% as compared to 8.67% and a PAT margin of 3.9% as compared to 3.42% in the corresponding period of the last financial year. Net order book of the company as on 31st March 2021, stood at INR 7,605 crores, to be executed in the next 2 to 2.5 years. Thank you. We are open for questions now.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Nitin Arora from Axis Mutual Fund.

Yes. Sir, first, need your opening remarks related to what kind of an execution you are seeing at the town level for -- specifically for our order book in context of 2 things: one, how's Bihar project is moving now, and the projects like Sion, because Maharashtra, you have 2 projects, which is your metro and the Sion one. How they are proceeding? Why I'm asking this, sir, because the projects like Jammu and the Delhi government project, the central government, Central Vista was in full swing as you were guiding earlier as well. So if you can throw some light, will execution ramp up from the Bihar and the Maharashtra project, how we should build in that?

Okay. Yes. Bihar, the projects now going forward will move full swing. First, there was a hangover of elections. And secondly, what we've seen in Bihar and in most of the government projects that when the financial year ends, the next couple of months, the treasury movement is a little slow. So that is behind us now. That coincided with the impact of second wave of COVID. So while the first quarter is sluggish, but going forward, Bihar, I think, will pick up speed now. It's already -- it's in the process of doing that. We are picking up speed there. And some fund release there has already started in the last 7 to 10 days. As far as Mumbai, the 2 projects are concerned, MMRDA, the depot has also picked up speed. Sion, as per the nature of the project, it really doesn't affect the total turnover too much because the stipulated duration of that project is about 4 years. So it's not the run rate and that project is never going to be high. That's what has been taken into our planning also.

Sir, next year, given what second wave would have impacted your Q1, I'm assuming not much impact because of the construction activity was picking, was, I think, already on, you can comment on that, it will be helpful. But generally, for the next one year, given the Bihar will ramp up, I think Jammu already in full swing, how much revenue one should build up for the next year here going forward?

Look, Nitin, there is an impact. If people are telling you that the first quarter, there is no impact. While construction did not stop totally, but definitely, our labor dropped down to about 30% on an average in these 2 months. So yes, as I mentioned, first quarter will be sluggish. And then secondly, everybody is talking about the third wave. That's an unknown, how that is going to impact moving forward. This uncertainty continues to be there. And labor force still is not back to 100% on all our projects because of this uncertainty. However, in spite of these headwinds, our guidance for this financial year is 10% to 15% growth in our revenue.

So you're taking much impact of third wave, any which ways in your guidance. Is that the right way to look at it when you're guiding at the lower end at 10%?

We can only take a certain amount of impact. We don't know how bad it will be.

Because -- why I'm asking this, that because INR 7,500 crores backlog, you will be executing very fast your Central Vista in Jammu the first half. In second half, it has to be driven by, let's say, Bihar. So that's why I asked if Bihar have started moving on all because Calcutta not much order book left now? You've already executed very fast there.

Yes. Within the first half of this financial year, Calcutta will contribute because it's been good that the same regime has come back to pass, and we have a couple of large projects which now has started moving post elections there again, the auditorium project and the Milan Mela project. So yes, the first half will contribute. Contribution will be there from Calcutta also.

So just last take of yours on the bid pipeline across the projects. And that is one. And second, can you throw some light how now you're viewing the real estate part because we keep hearing from the real estate sector that the demand is coming back. So some of the players are in a hurry of new launches as well. What's your sense, sir? Because you are generally being positive on commercial, I remember, and we saw some orders also coming from there. I just need your take on the bid pipeline. How you're seeing in terms of ordering? How much you're planning and your take on real estate? That's it, sir.

We continue to be wary of private real estate, especially residential. It is yet not a focus area for us. So that's one part of your question answered. As far as the bid pipeline is concerned, we have submitted bids for about INR 2,000 crores, INR 1,930 crores as things stand today. And beyond this, also, I'm seeing a bid pipeline of about INR 1,200 crores.

The next question is from the line of Shravan Shah from Dolat Capital Market Private Limited.

Congrats, sir for a good set of numbers. Yes. Sir, a couple of things. First, when we are saying that labor is 70% and first quarter is sluggish, if you can help me, just a broad number, can we say at least INR 500 crores or INR 762 crores is the fourth quarter revenue, even if I do a 0.7% -- 70% of that, that is INR 532 crores. So will it be even lower than that? Or that would be a kind of -- broadly on that range as we are already finishing the quarter?

I think it will be around INR 500 crores. That's what our projections show.

Okay. And on the EBITDA margin front, previously, we said that we were looking at 10% for this year and 11%, 12% for FY '23. Is there any change in that number?

No. We are quite bullish on our EBITDA in this year, the ongoing financial year, 11% to 12%. So we increased it by 1 percentage point.

Okay. Okay. That's great. Third thing, sir, just wanted to understand, in terms of the provisions for debtors, last time, we said in 9 months, we have written INR 13.78 crores. But now if I look at it in terms of the cash flow, it is around INR 53-odd crores. So this quarter, it seems that we have written off INR 39-odd crores or made a provision for debt. So just trying to understand what is that? And is it over? Because even last time also we said we will -- expecting INR 6 more crores provision this quarter. And now still we have done close to INR 39 crores, INR 40-odd crores. So I'm not able to understand where we are going wrong. And what is still left in terms of the debt? And at the same time, in terms of the CapEx also, last time, when we said that in 9 months, we did around INR 19 crores and expecting INR 7 crores, INR 8-odd crores, but we have done actually INR 35 crores, INR 36-odd crores. So what will be the number for next year in terms of the CapEx also?

Yes. I had given you a total CapEx for the entire year at about anywhere between INR 25 crores to INR 28 crores. You're right. We have done INR 35 crores. That is because due to paucity of labor, we've invested more in mechanization to get projects up to speed, especially large projects like -- especially hospital projects, where we've taken a calculated gamble in investing more in machinery, primarily cranes and excavators and also shuttering systems. And we've done this on the Jammu Project. We've done this on the Hamirpur Project and the Chamba Project. These are hospital projects, where the state governments are also extremely bullish as is the center for the Jammu project because they feel that the funds for these projects are not going to be in short supply. Going forward, the CapEx for this year will be between INR 25 crores to INR 30 crores. As far as the write-offs are concerned, there is no confusion. I think we use the word where we are going wrong. We're not going wrong at all. I thought The Street would be happy. We cleaned up our balance sheet totally. And I had maintained that, that by the end of this financial year, most of the so-called bad debts, we would write off, and we've done that.

Okay. So now nothing left in terms of the provision?

Minor. It's minor, right? Minor things. That also we are hoping that it would not come to that. But the balance sheet is mostly totally cleaned up now.

Okay. Lastly, sir, on data point, a breakup of order book segment-wise, region-wise, and also the number on the mobilization advance, retention money and unbilled revenue?

[Foreign Language].

This is -- government is 80% and private is 20%. And segment-wise, it's commercial, that is 4.90%, hospital is 51.58%, infra 12.75%, institutional 16.27%, residential 14.48%. And region wise: East, this is 33%; North 46.1%; and West 20.23%, and South, negligible, 0.66%. And you are asking about mobilization advance, that is around INR 322 crores. And further -- what you were asking?

Retention money and unbilled revenue.

Retention money that is including -- this is retention and debtors. This is INR 616 crores. And unbilled revenue is INR 252 crores.

Sorry. Sir, retention, sir, you said, how much?

Retention is out of that, INR 181 crores.

INR 181 crores?

INR 1 crores, including current and noncurrent.

The next question is from the line of Mohit Kumar from DAM Capital Advisors.

Yes. And congratulation on a good set of numbers, sir. Sir, on trade receivable, you said that you written off entirely everything and there's no -- absolutely no write-off likely in the FY '22. My question is how do you see the trade receivables going forward for FY '22? Do you think it will increase? Or do you think it will maintain at these levels given that we are guiding for a very muted kind of revenue growth, given our large order book? And secondly, sir, can you just -- is the order book INR 7,500 crores? Can you confirm that number?

Yes. INR 7,605 crores.

And so my question, sir...

Hello? Mohit, did you get that?

Yes, I got it, sir. And trade receivables, can you please elaborate on that? How do you see the trend going forward?

Look, trade receivables, it will be -- it will remain at these levels because, as I said, the pandemic is still continuing. And the impact of the third wave, what is going to be. And how -- even if it's not there, how the economy reacts or bounces back. So these are some of the things which are still in the realm of uncertainty. Do you want any specific numbers on trade receivables?

I think it would remain like -- I think you're guiding for a stable trade receivables, right?

Yes, sure.

Sir, my -- so if any order inflow guidance you can provide for FY '22. And what kind of orders are available from the government side in the sense your hospitals? Are you seeing more tenders of hospitals? Or is it a general building?

At the moment, it's as far as the government order pipeline is concerned, we are seeing focus on health care projects. Otherwise, it is sluggish because the government -- various state governments and the central government also looking at balancing their budgets and seeing how money can be allocated for various projects. So there is a bit of slowdown in other projects -- other institutional projects, let me put it that way. As far as our guidance or the order inflow is concerned, it's about INR 2,500 crores for the entire year.

And last year was INR 2,000 crores. Am I right, sir?

Yes.

The next question is from the line of Ashish Shah, from Centrum Broking Limited.

Sir, just coming back to the subject of provisions. So as of the last annual report, we have 3 distinct buckets of issues. One was the BG encashment, which is about INR 20 crores. We had overdue retentions and receivable of INR 79 crores and we had INR 53 crores of inventories of flats. So I believe that inventory part is what it remains. And what is -- where are we on the BG encashment part of '19. Is that completely written off during this year? And where are we on the INR 79 crores, which we had recorded as of the last time annual report? So how much of that is remaining?

We are not able to understand what you are asking?

The first part, I think he is talking about the BG encashment of Reliance.

Right.

In that what's that he is talking about with the Reliance Group?

Sir, talking about the ADAG Group?

No. That is not written off. There a settlement has been reached with Reliance, in addition. This is -- this INR 19 crores in addition to that, another about INR 24 crores, I think the total settlement is about INR 40-odd crores, which they have to pay us in the next 4 to 5 years. Obviously, the repayment plan as per the repayment plan, it should have started, but only a token amount has come, obviously, on account of because their revenues continue to be hit because of metro not functioning on account of pandemic, and their award from Delhi Metro or airport line yet not having fructified. So that is not written off. What was the next part of your question that I think we didn't understand.

That part was about overdue retentions and trade receivables? That was recorded at INR 79 crores in the last annual report. What I'm checking is that...

It is not the overdue. Basically, that is a part of the -- if you're asking for old legal project, that is amount of hardly INR 4 crores retention money.

Okay. So INR 4 crores...

If we are in legal and arbitration then we are hardly INR 4 crores retention you can say. But all the rest of the retention money for the running projects are there. Out of INR 181 crores, you can say around INR 175 crores are related to running projects.

Okay. Sure. So we are basically saying what is balanced. What Shobhit sir said is that of the remaining amount, if at all, are going to be very small. So we are talking about the quantum of let's say, around INR 4-odd crores of retentions, which probably are...

That is for only INR 4 crores, INR 5 crores related to old projects that we have taken action in legal or arbitration.

Correct. Apart from that, there is nothing remaining...

No, no, that's all running projects that we are realizing time to time. According to the situation of the availability with the client and also availability of our labors also. So that's -- we are realizing time to time. Against the BG. Most of the projects have some couple of realizing and retention of the services.

Okay. So can you give the breakup of the finance charges, the interest cost for Q4 and FY '21 as reported in the P&L?

Interest cost is hardly -- now this is coming out...

No. What I am saying the total finance charges, the finance cost reported for the quarter...

This is basically majorly related to mobilization advance that we have taken around INR 320 crores. That amount is around INR 21 crores, that's a mobilization advance [indiscernible]. And another one is you will find that the discounting of the lease liable to E-license fee, that is INR 4 crores INR 20 lakhs. That is also included in the Kota project. And this is another INR 12 crores to INR 13 crores related to BG commissions like expenses. Interest cost was hardly INR 3.90 crores.

Sure. Got it.

This was given through our banks.

The next question is from the line of Parikshit Kandpal from HDFC Securities.

Congratulations on a good set of numbers. Yes, Shobhit, so my first question was on, if I go little bit back in the industry. So if I see your numbers for FY '19/'20, we had major inflows. And FY '18 to '21, you've almost more than doubled our order book. And in terms of revenue, we are still struggling in that range of INR 70 to INR 2,000 crores of numbers while the order book has more than doubled. So the INR 750-odd crores which we have done, so is it the optimal revenue we can do in a normalized condition on the current order book? Because I was waiting for the last almost 2 years that somewhere we catch up with the order inflows and order book in terms of execution. Have you reached that stage now maybe whatever happened in terms of COVID first and second wave? So are we there?

You used the word optimum condition, yes, we are there. If conditions stay optimal, then yes, INR 750 crores is achievable. But as we are seeing, Parikshit, year-after-year, there are surprises around the corner every time we get to complacent. So that is why I'm giving the guidance that I am, that probably by the end of this year, we should be at INR 2,300 crores or there and thereabout.

This will be almost very conservative in terms of pricing and the -- in terms of large extent of second wave and other conditions related to payments of your dues and all, so is it considering the economic factors as well. So I mean that could be potentially upside from these levels, I mean this is not the optimal kind of execution which you're guiding, right?

It could be, Parikshit. It could be. But as I said, we are still not out of the pandemic. So it's only prudent to assume that there will be some continued effect over the next few months at least.

Sir, second question was on, again, I am seeing that the order book has doubled, so that large part of that has not reflected yet in the execution. And it is followed by a massive increase in the raw material prices last year. So do you think that this 11% to 12% kind of margin guidance prices in the raw material escalation on the entire order book? Or are there any further negative surprises on the margin front, which could possibly come up?

They have been factored in.

Okay. And for FY '23, so trajectory wise you said you're getting bullish on the margin. So 11% to 12% for next year and does it have further scope of increasing to 12% to 13% in FY '23? If hopefully by then, we'll have a no more of like third or fourth or, potentially, fourth or fifth wave. In the absence of that, so can we move back to our normalized margins of about 13% to 14% range by FY '23?

Yes, yes.

Okay. Great, sir. Just lastly, on this year, so how much is the total write-off which we took in FY '21?

I think INR 53 crores.

Okay. Okay. And this is -- and you're saying that next -- this can -- maybe very minor amount may come in, almost everything...

Yes.

The next question is from the line of Vibhor Singhal from PhillipCapital India Private Limited. [Operator Instructions]

Yes. Sorry. I think that was mute. So sir, my question -- just 2 questions. One, just harping a little bit more on the provision side. So you mentioned the total INR 53 crores of provision is what we have taken for this full year. Assuming -- and going by the call that we had in the last quarter, the total provision for this quarter would be around INR 34 crores?

Yes, exactly.

Okay. And sir, this would reflect in our?

That gets reflected into...

Sorry, sir?

Hello?

Yes.

We have made provision and write-off of INR 34 crores.

INR 34 crores? Right, sir. So sir, basically, if I were to -- sir, and this would be reflected in the other expenditure, right? In the P&L?

Yes, yes, yes.

Right. So, sir that's around 450 basis points. So we can assume that if the provision was not there, our core operating margin would have been close to 13%, 13.5%?

This rounded to total...

12%. INR 53 crores, about 2.5% there, so about 12%, 11.% to 12%.

Right. So sir, that is the margin that we can -- as you mentioned, we can replicate as well next year, on our core operation basis...

Exactly. That's why I said 11% to 12%, yes.

Sure. Great, sir. And sir, this entire INR 53 crores was related to the Commonwealth Games project. Or were there other provisions -- other projects as well?

Majorly to the Commonwealth Games.

And the Commonwealth Games have been expensed out completely. There is no more provisions left for that project to be made?

Yes.

Sure. Great, sir. Sir, my next question is just one, I mean, I just wanted to get a clarification on a couple of balance sheet items. So our noncurrent -- other noncurrent assets has increased from INR 71 crores to around INR 120 crores. And our other current assets have increased from INR 315 crores to INR 458 crores. So put together, there is approximately INR 150 crores of increase in our other current and noncurrent assets.

Basically, you are asking other current assets, that had increased INR 315 crores to INR 458 crores, majorly due to unbilled revenue. That had been grown from INR 120 crores to INR 252 crores. And besides that, that basically due to GST, we have to take a refund around that amount has also increased by INR 30 crores. That is the major impact. The current asset have been increased from amount INR 143 crores. And we are asking other current financial assets. For the current financial asset or?

No, sir. Other noncurrent assets? From INR 71 crores to INR 118 crores.

Hold on for a moment. That is -- hold on, hold on.

Other noncurrent, sir?

That is due to increase in retention money. Retention money has increased to INR 60 crores to INR 105 crores. That is the major impact only, in other noncurrent assets.

Right. And sir, in the unbilled revenue, you mentioned unbilled revenue has increased from INR 120 crores to...

INR 124 crores to INR 252 crores.

INR 252 crores. So sir, this INR 130 crores of incremental, this is -- again, any specific project which captures major part of this unbilled revenue? Or is it spread across?

That is due to change in the system, basically what's happening now that earlier, we are taking the work done in particular a quarter -- particular month, we are taking -- we are inviting according to that. But now because of real-time invoicing is there, that's why we have to increase the amount that is WIP and an unbilled revenue that we are not able to recognize in revenue.

Okay. So just that maybe a recognition kind of a problem, not a real...

Changes in the GST system that you might be aware that they have introduced an E-invoicing system.

Okay. So because of that -- the major increase is because of that?

Yes. That's why unbilled revenue has been grown up.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Sure, sir. Shobhit, sir, just one last question from my side. I just wanted to pick your brain on, basically, we know that the health care sector is basically seeing a lot of boost. And as we were having this call, the FM again came on television, and they've been delivering some more shocks to the sector. So do you see the -- our business also kind of moving towards that direction? We have certain expertise in this domain. So do you foresee that in the next couple of years, maybe larger part of the order book than what it is today could be in the health care segment and there could be much larger projects coming through our way in this segment per se?

Look, I will not exactly replicate what you're saying, but what I would say, and I had said this in my last call also, that we are in a special position because of our expertise of having delivered hospitals in the past 5 to 7 years. And going forward, this will remain a focus area, and it will help us in growing our business.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of [ Rajat Setiya ] from [indiscernible] Financial Consultings.

Sir, most of my questions have been answered. One thing is remaining. If you look at our finance costs, so it keeps on changing, obviously, depending on the order that we received and depending on the order book that we didn't. Sir just wanted to understand in reference to the revenues, maybe is it something that we can generalize revenue...

Rajat, your voice is not very clear. Rajat, your voice is not very clear.

Is it any better now?

It is. It is.

Okay. I was saying in terms of finance cost as a percentage of sales if we have to look at, is it something that you can help us understand how it moves in relation to the revenues?

Satbeer, you want to take that question? You want to answer that?

Basically, [indiscernible] finance cost will be reduced gradually because of adjustment of mobilization are gone. Mobilization advance is INR 322 crores, you can say our project about 2.5 years to 3 years, that would be advanced to the adjustment. So that's -- now going onward, you will find that coming down 2.14%. So that will be come -- came down. Basically major mobilization advance interest is INR 21 crores. That we are expecting that will be...

No, no. I think what he wants to understand -- if I understood your question correctly, you want to understand why there is a variation year after year. Is that what your question is, Rajat?

Yes. I just would like to understand how do we -- how to really understand this particular cost component? Because I think it is a function of not just the revenues that we book in our P&L, but also the order book, I think that we have in the pipeline, correct?

So I'll tell you what it is a function of. If you -- see normally for companies which are declared, a majority of the finance cost comes from the interest that they pay to the bank. We are actually a debt-free company. Out of this total, I think the advance -- total finance cost is about INR 40-odd crores -- INR 42 crores. Out of this, what we paid to the bank as far as is virtually negligible it is INR 4 crores. More than 50% -- about 50% of this cost is on account of the mobilization advance, which we have taken on various government projects, which is interest bearing. About INR 20 crores out of this INR 40-odd crores is that finance costs, right? In this year, particularly in the latter part of this financial year. Last financial year, we did not take much mobilization advance. Even when it was due, we did not take it. But seeing the market scenario, seeing the fund position with various state governments and central government, we thought it's prudent to take this advance. That is why this absolute figure stands of this advance outstanding on our books is about INR 320 crores. And what Satbeer mentioned -- has mentioned is that going forward, if conditions improve, we would get it deducted and try and reduce this finance cost on our balance sheet. The other portion of this finance cost is what we pay to the bank for our bank charges against banks guarantees that we pick, which we have to give as performance securities as mobilization advance and guarantees and redemption securities to various government clients. And about INR 4 crores, he mentioned as an answer to one of the earlier questions is for the Kota project. Is your question answered?

Yes, yes. Pretty much. Just one follow-up on this. On this mobilization advances that we get. So we took it because we thought the considering in mind the liquidity situation. But now going forward, let's say, when we don't take this advance, this interest-bearing mobilization advance then how do we finance from our own books? Or how does it happen?

It depends on project to project. As you know, it is the central government project, especially relating to Ministry Health Care, for instance, we -- going forward, we would avoid taking mobilization advance or we will not take it to its fullest extent. And we would like to finance it from internal approvals. But if it is in state like Himachal, for instance, if we feel in the long-term funds may be an issue, we would like to stock up by taking the mobilization advance.

And what is the charge on mobilization advance? I mean what's the rate of interest?

It's 10%. The rate of interest is generally 10%. And the charge -- there is no other charge other than the charges that we pay to the banks for getting the bank guarantees because this advance is securitized by giving bank guarantees to the client.

The next question is from the line of Jiten Rushi from Axis Capital Limited.

Sir, in the order backlog, can you give us a breakup between the fixed price contract and the contracts wise, is it even initially covered by application or most of the contracts are covered by escalation?

I think about 80% of the projects. We will send these exact numbers to you, so please note this. But about 80% of the contracts are covered by an escalation clause.

We are like well protected against the raw material increase? right?

Yes, yes.

And sir, on the inventory part, so do we have -- have you sold any inventory in the form of real estate, which you were having -- which you have taken from our clients and which were in our books? And what would be the pending outstanding inventory as type of inventories?

That we have sold during the year that is a relative new entry, around INR 7.89 crores. And that is -- there is -- also we have shown -- and out of INR 2.94 crores, it includes impairment of INR 1.91 crores.

Sorry, I didn't get you, sir. You said INR 7.9 crores was the opening, you said, right, sir?

We have sold during the year INR 7.89 crores inventory.

So that is what we have sold?

Yes.

And now what is -- the outstanding is?

You can see the result segment wise here that we have shown there for that part.

Right, sir. And sir, in terms of the order backlog, so can you give me the outstanding order backlog for 2 key projects, if I may ask, as on March ending? So Jammu project, the hospital project and the hospital project in Nagpur, AIIMS in the Kalyani in West Bengal then the Government Hospital project in Bihar, Chapra. So if it is possible, can you share these numbers or should I take it...

Project wise, I will tell you.

He is asking for majorly, the outstanding...

AIIMS, Kalyani, INR 177 crores.

Hello? Sir, which project did you say?

You asking for Bihar...

[Foreign Language]

AIIMS at Kalyani, INR 177 crores. And you are asking about Chapra, this is INR 314 crores and Nalanda, INR 258 crores.

Okay. And Jammu?

And Jammu, this is INR 1,176 crores.

INR 1,176 crores. Okay.

INR 1,176 crores.

INR 1,176 crores. Central Vista, sir?

Central Vista, this is INR 246 crores.

So almost a significant execution done this quarter, I think.

Yes, yes, yes.

Okay. And sir, in Nagpur, AIIMS, sir?

AIIMS in Nagpur, this is INR 125 crores.

Okay. And these are Chapra, I view. Okay, okay. And sir, one more project if you can -- like say the MCGM of Sion Hospital, you said it has started. So is it still the same in the order backlog...

That has just started. That's all amount of spending.

And that 240-bed hospital project also started or how it takes, sir?

Which project?

Hamirpur, Hamirpur project, sir.

It just started.

It's a design-build project, but work on the ground has begun. We have already done a billing of about INR 10-odd crores.

Excatly, INR 10-odd crores.

So sir, can I get separately the list of outstanding order backlog project wise, if I mail to the IR team. Can they mail me, sir, if it is...

Yes...

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of [ Jaimin Shah ] from [indiscernible] Securities.

Congratulations on a good set of numbers. Sir, my question is regarding the gross margin that we reported during this 4Q FY '21. So, sir, if we see the trend of Q3 FY '21 or 4Q of FY '20 and the gross margins were hovering around 17% to 18%, whereas we have recorded around 21%, 22% during this 4Q FY '21 despite this raw material prices increase. Like how you are looking at this margin going forward, like in the range of 21%, 22% or below that?

Look, we have been able to achieve an excellent set of numbers in this quarter due to various factors, primarily some projects where the margins were high, we could -- our execution levels were very high. So -- but this, I don't expect these kind of numbers to last quarter after quarter, especially on account of the uncertainty, as I said. But if optimal conditions are there, so why not? As I mentioned, I think it is Shravan who asked that question, maybe 2 years down the line, we'll go back to the highs that we had attained in the past, around 2010.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Shravan Shah from Dollard Capital Markets.

Sir, last time, you said that we did it, 2 projects, one was NBCC, Delhi and one was Patna around 1,000, 1,000 each. Has that bid open? Or is it still pending that what we said around INR 1,930 crores that we have submitted. So that is still part of that?

So the first one, the Delhi one in Karkadooma, there were 2 bidders, one was Nagarjuna, one was us. The job has been awarded to Nagarjuna who was about 18% lower than us, if memory serves me right. So what we had bid as INR 1,050 crores, I think he has taken the job at about INR 830 crores or INR 840 crores. So that has been awarded, not to us. The second job is yet to be -- the price bid is yet to be open. I think Bihar because it was various -- government departments were reeling under the effects of the pandemic. So I think the evaluation is on the prequalification or post qualification is still continuing.

Okay. So currently, what we said around INR 1,930 crores bid submitted to around INR 1,000 crores would be the Bihar one. So the other INR 900 crores or INR 1,000 crores, that would be a single project or a 2, 3 projects are there?

Now there are 1, 2, 3 -- 5 other projects.

The next question is from the line of Parvez Akhtar Qazi from Edelweiss Securities.

Just a couple of questions from my side. First, I mean you mentioned that this pipeline has been slightly settled. So what is the kind of competitive intensity that [indiscernible]. You just said your [indiscernible] bid some 18% lower than you. But as a general trend over the last 12 months and that the -- prior to the second wave, how was the competitive intensity?

Parvez, as I had mentioned in my last call, I had expected the competitive intensity to be high. But now it will taper. I think things will start normalizing because almost every contractor is reeling from the price increase. I did -- although most of the contracts are covered, government contracts are covered by a price escalation clause, but in the short term, it has impacted contractors whose balance sheet, whose borrowings were high. So I think they would have learned their lessons going forward. Maybe in the next -- in the second part of this financial year, I think the competitive intensity would not be as much.

Sure, sir. And sir, just had a couple of book keeping questions. What was the overall debt at the end of FY '21?

I think the debt is about INR 15 crores.

INR 14 crores.

INR 14 crores.

And -- as we said if it is not too much has happened, can you please repeat the segment-wise breakup of the order book?

This is commercial, 4.92%; hospital 51.58%; infra 12.75%; institutional 16.27%; residential 14.48%.

[Operator Instructions] the next question is from the line of Parikshit Kandpal from HDFC Securities. [Operator Instructions]

INR 325 crores of cash on the book. So is it largely explained by a high level of mobilization advances which we have availed during this year, just to keep the liquidity buffer on our side?

Parikshit, just repeat your question, please?

INR 325 crores of cash which we have on the book.

Yes. that's largely on account of mobilization advances, yes.

So this year, how much was the incremental mobilization advance you would have a versus last year?

That -- last year mobilization was, outstanding was INR 207 crores and now INR 322 crores, but we have to set how much mobilization advance has been taken this year.

Okay. So INR 207 crores was last year closing and now you said INR 300-plus crores. Okay. Sir, the second question was on, sir, on the real estate side, we are seeing very good recovery in residential, which was sad that the second wave hit us. And even if I listen to the commentary of most of the real estate -- private real estate developers, they sound very confident in the second half FY '22. And this COVID has also resulted in a large part of market share shifting, just from Bengaluru market alone, top 4, 5 developers market share has increased from 20% to almost 50% when the market shrunk about 35% from 50 million to 31 million square feet. So are we -- and these are all like strong balance sheet developers. We can see developers like you, on-time, can give you good projects, good contracts. So are -- somewhere in the near future, do you really think that we can come back and start looking at private sector, especially the Tier 1 developers, as the potential part of our order book and growth? So if you can comment something on that.

Yes. If I take you back a couple of years, I told you that in the long term, we would like to maintain a 50-50 order book, right? But in the short term, we continue to be risk averse and wary of residential projects on the private sector side. In the long term, in the past, it has been our bread and butter, and we will eventually, after evaluating the stronger players and when the market has stabilized, we would -- we will obviously be working on the private residential projects also. We are doing that in a handful of projects. The projects in Puna that we are doing, 50% of the project is residential, as you know.

Okay. So -- but that long term is now not that long term, right? I mean is it maybe -- is it like maybe another year or like -- so how far do you see that you'll be in a position to come back?

There is a lot of uncertainty. As I think stand in the next 1 year, at least, residential projects on the private sector side do not interest us.

Ladies and gentlemen, we'll take the last question from the line of Mohit Kumar from DM Capital.

Sir, one clarification, sir. So the kind of order we bid for in the government side, be it the state or central, all are covered by escalation clauses, right?

Yes.

There is no fixed price contract on the government side. Am I right in saying that?

NBCC used to have fixed price contracts. But on larger contracts now, they've also exceeded to the demand of the construction companies and put in -- and have started putting in escalation clauses.

Thank you very much. I will now hand the conference over to Mr. Varun Ginodia for closing comments.

Thank you. Thank you, Nirav, and thank you so much, sir, for patiently answering all the questions. And I hope everyone does keep in good health during such times. Sir, any closing remarks? I hand over the call to you for that.

Thank you. Thank you, Varun. Thank you, everybody, for joining in and listening to us. We -- if there are any further questions, please feel free to mail them to us. We will respond. And see you soon, hopefully, with a good set of numbers again after a couple of months. Thank you. Thank you so much. Bye.

Thank you very much. On behalf of AMBIT Capital Private Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.