Airbus SE (AIR) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

February 15, 2024

Euronext Paris FR Industrials Aerospace and Defense earnings 78 min

Earnings Call Speaker Segments

Operator

operator
#1

Good day, everyone, and thanks for holding. This is the Airbus Full Year 2023 Results Release conference call, and you're welcome to it. Sharon here, and I'm the operator on this conference. Just so you know, throughout the presentation every participant will be in listen-only mode, and this conference is being recorded. Once the presentation wraps up, there will be a chance for you to ask questions. Right now, I'd like to hand the conference over to your hosts: Guillaume Faury, Thomas Toepfer, and Hélène Le Gorgeu.

Hélène Le Gorgeu

executive
#2

Many thanks, Sharon, and a warm good morning to everyone. You're joining the Airbus conference call covering our Full Year 2023 results. Guillaume Faury, who serves as our CEO, along with Thomas Toepfer, our CFO, will walk you through the results and take your questions. We expect this call to run roughly one hour and 15 minutes, and that figure includes the Q&A session, which follows the presentation. A webcast of this call is available too — you can reach it from our homepage by clicking the dedicated banner. A playback will be posted on our website, though we don't offer a dedicated phone replay service. Earlier today, the supporting information package went up on our website. It contains the slides we're about to take you through, plus the financial statements. During this call, forward-looking statements will be made. I'd ask you to look at the safe harbor statement shown on the presentation slide, since it applies to this call as well. Please take a moment to read it carefully. Guillaume, the floor is now yours.

Guillaume Faury

executive
#3

Thanks, Hélène, and good day, everyone — appreciate you being on the call with us for our full year 2023 results. It's a pleasure to be here alongside Thomas, who will take you through the results and give some color on how we see 2024 shaping up. I'll start with a look at the business highlights from last year. Across our businesses, order intake was very strong, and we notably hit new records in our commercial aircraft business and in our Defense and Space division. Global air traffic is now back at pre-COVID levels. Once travel restrictions came off, short-haul flights recovered very fast, and as we had anticipated, we're now seeing long-haul flights recover in a sustained way. For commercial aircraft, this has been a landmark year, with a record-breaking level of aircraft orders and backlog, which gives us long-term visibility and clearly supports the production targets for our single-aisle and wide-body program. In Q4, we delivered 247 commercial aircraft, bringing our full year 2023 deliveries to 735 units, up +11% year on year. We delivered on our 2023 commitments and progressed on our production ramp-ups as planned. With an operating environment that remained complex and affected by supply chain challenges and geopolitical tensions, I believe this is a significant achievement.

Guillaume Faury

executive
#4

So I really want to express my genuine thanks to our customers, our suppliers, our partners, and naturally the Airbus team, since they're the ones who delivered this. We gain from an industrial transformation that continues to expand through additional investment in our production system, and also from working closely with the supply chain. Across the past 2 years, our supply chain has acted as a constraint, and we anticipate it will keep setting the pace of our production ramp-up as we move ahead. That said, we thoroughly evaluate and aim for what I describe as the sweet spot — the optimal balance pitting demand against what our supply chain is capable of delivering, while naturally, and this matters greatly, upholding the highest safety standard in our industry. That is the foundation of our plan for 2024. Turning now to how we performed financially in 2023, our EBIT adjusted came in at EUR 5.8 billion, which mirrors our commercial aircraft deliveries, the solid results from helicopters, and the charges booked in certain space programs. Free cash flow before M&A and customer financing reached EUR 4.4 billion, driven principally by our commercial aircraft deliveries, and it also mirrors the robust performance across all businesses. These financial results, including a net income of EUR 3.8 billion, together with our confidence in future financial performance, underpin our dividend proposal for 2023 of EUR 1.8 per share.

Guillaume Faury

executive
#5

That strong free cash flow generation—especially during the last quarter—has pushed our net cash position past EUR 10 billion. That is what supports the special dividend of EUR 1 per share we are proposing. With that in mind, let's look more closely at 2023, beginning with commercial positioning on commercial aircraft. 2023 was the year global air traffic recovered and the airline industry returned to profitability. We booked a record 2,319 gross orders, among them 1,039 in Q4, which confirms both our customers' trust and where we stand in the market. For the A220, gross orders came to 142, with 109 of those in the last quarter, and thanks to this order intake we now carry a backlog of 600 aircraft. Turning to the A320 family, we booked 1,835 gross orders—an unprecedented level—including 748 in the fourth quarter. That lifts our backlog to 7,197 aircraft, roughly two-thirds of which are for the A321. On wide bodies, we recorded 342 gross orders in 2023, among them 182, 182 in Q4, which confirms the wide-body market is recovering. Net orders came to 2,094 aircraft after 225 cancellations, which were largely anticipated and embedded in our backlog valuation as of year-end 2022, and our backlog in units stood at 8,598—so very close to 8,600 at the end of December 2023.

Guillaume Faury

executive
#6

When you look at the group level, the value of our backlog rose to EUR 554 billion in 2023. That mainly mirrors a book-to-bill above 1 across every division, though it was partly offset by the US dollar weakening. Turning to helicopters, we booked 393 net orders in 2023, versus 362 in 2022. Those orders were nicely spread across programs, with a book-to-bill above 1 in both units and value. It takes in a standout performance in the medium segment and in services during the last quarter. In Q4, we signed an agreement with Germany covering the purchase of up to 82 military role H145M helicopters — the biggest order this platform has ever received. That contract also covers seven years of support and services. We also signed an agreement with the French Direction Générale de l'Armement, the DGA, for 42 H145 helicopters — 36 for the Sécurité Civile and six for the French Gendarmerie Nationale — plus 22 options. This contract likewise includes a range of support and services solutions. Beyond that, the DGA awarded NHI, to NHIndustries, a contract for producing eight additional NH90s in Standard 2 configuration for the French Army Aviation. All in all, 2023 was a strong year, and positive momentum continues for both civil and military markets.

Guillaume Faury

executive
#7

To wrap up, Defense and Space. First off, we were glad to see a solid flow of orders come in across the whole year. For full year 2023, order intake came to EUR 15.7 billion, a rise of 15% year-on-year, which works out to a book-to-bill of roughly 1.4. And here too, much like in the commercial aircraft business, order intake is hitting new highs. This commercial showing validates our long-term ambition for the division and underlines how strong our products are. Notable orders booked in Q4 include Spain's order for 16 C295s, which will boost Spain's national security as well as its search and rescue capabilities. On Eurofighter, we're proud to point out that Airbus will equip 15 German Eurofighters for electronic warfare capabilities. That variant is set to be NATO-certified by 2030, and will afterward take over the role held by the Tornado electronic warfare aircraft. When it comes to unmanned aerial systems, we signed a contract with Spain for the SIRTAP, the next generation tactical UAS, unmanned aerial system. Developing SIRTAP will deliver vital experience and competencies in the field of remote carriers for FCAS, thus preparing for what lies ahead. As for FCAS, we keep moving forward on phase 1B together with our partners. We're also continuing to make headway on Eurodrone. Although we're encountering delays in some design specifications, we are now working toward completing the so-called preliminary design review later this year, so as to allow an entry into service by the end of this decade.

Guillaume Faury

executive
#8

Regarding Ariane 6, every hot fire test required for the maiden flight has now been completed successfully. The first launch is aimed at summer 2024, contingent on clearance of certain final tests. Further charges in the fourth quarter have affected our space business, and we'll return to that. Before turning to financials, I want to update you on the transformation we launched in the division in early 2023, early last year, intended to make our organization simpler, more agile, and more customer-oriented, with greater accountability, and of course also to drive competitiveness for the division. At the end of 2023, we hit an important milestone when the social dialogue with our European and national social partners was finalized. Consequently, the new structure went live on January first this year, a few weeks ago, with three business lines: Air Power, the largest one, combining our existing military air system and the FCAS activities. Second, Space Systems, and third, Connected Intelligence. Under this new setup, roughly 15,000 employees are moving out of former central engineering and operation functions into the three business lines mentioned above, giving those the means for clear end-to-end business ownership and accountability.

Guillaume Faury

executive
#9

So they have everything they need and the authority to act. This transformation aims at excellence all the way from bidding through to delivery, so that performance is secured going forward. Let me point to the main initiatives, which include disciplined, selective bidding to boost profitability, plus quality and operational excellence in production and engineering via specification definition, execution, and risk management, and getting the right skills and competencies in the right place. That brings some management changes, which we are putting in place right now. This transformation will also let us tackle the long-term cost structure more efficiently. Given my experience with earlier transformation programs and the long-term nature of this business, grasping the full benefits of this change will take time, but we will get there and converge toward our ambition of a high single-digit margin in the midterm. Voila! Now Thomas will walk you through our financials.

Thomas Toepfer

executive
#10

Thank you, Guillaume, and good day to everyone on my side as well. I'm looking at page six in the deck, and at this point I'd like to walk you through how we performed financially with a bit more granularity. So, as you can see, revenues for the full year 2023 rose to EUR 65.4 billion, an increase of 11% compared with the prior year, and this chiefly mirrors the greater quantity of commercial aircraft deliveries. Turning to EBIT adjusted on the top right of that page, allow me to begin by recalling our starting point, since in the 2022 financial year we were at EUR 5.6 billion, and within that figure sat a net positive impact of EUR 4.4 billion stemming from a number of non-recurring items. That came about through a favorable effect from retirement obligations as well as compliance-related matters, which were partly offset by the loss of the Pléiades Neo satellites and by international sanctions against Russia. For the full year 2023, EBIT adjusted climbed to EUR 5.8 billion, largely mirroring the greater commercial aircraft deliveries, a more favorable hedge rate, and the solid performance at helicopters, partly offset by investments aimed at preparing the future and by charges in certain space programs. Now, regarding those charges and building on what was done during the first nine months, we actually broadened the scope in the fourth quarter, and we carried out an in-depth review of our space programs.

Thomas Toepfer

executive
#11

That led to EUR 0.2 billion in extra charges stemming from updates to the estimate at completion. Now, regarding full year 2023, the charges come to a total of EUR 0.6 billion and have been booked, and they now reflect revised timelines and cost estimates, along with the reassessment of commercial risk and opportunities. If you dig into these EUR 0.6 billion of charges, roughly one-third reflect the current period, and the remainder serves to adjust past and future profits. So therefore, two-thirds is probably the right order of magnitude to be normalized if you wanna come to a clean 2023 result. And I would say, while this high-tech business, of course, always carries some risk, I now sincerely believe that we have a balanced assessment. Just as a reminder, in 2023, we made further progress on our compliance-related topics, which allowed us to release provisions for an amount of EUR 0.1 billion in the first half of the year. In terms of R&D, our expenses stood at EUR 3.3 billion versus EUR 3.1 billion in 2022, and the R&D expenses are expected to continue to slightly increase in 2024. Our full-year EPS adjusted stood at EUR 5.60, based on an average of 789 million shares, and our full-year free cash flow before M&A and customer financing was EUR 4.4 billion, reflecting the strong commercial aircraft deliveries and the pre-delivery payments collection from commercial momentum, mainly in December.

Thomas Toepfer

executive
#12

Moving to the next slide, we'll examine profitability. For full year 2023, reported EBIT came in at EUR 4.6 billion, while EBIT adjustments amounted to a net negative of EUR 1.2 billion. The details are shown in the upper right-hand portion of the slide. As you can see, this includes an impact of roughly EUR 1.03 billion negative stemming from the US dollar working capital mismatch and balance sheet revaluation, primarily reflecting the mechanical effect arising from the gap between the transaction date and the delivery date, with EUR 224 million of that occurring in Q4. It also takes in EUR 89 million tied to the aerostructures transformation, of which EUR 32 million fell in Q4 and EUR 41 million related to the A400M. Finally, minus EUR 75 million in other costs, including compliance costs, with EUR 19 million of that in Q4. Our reported EPS incorporates EUR 166 million of positive financial results, which mainly reflects a favorable impact from revaluation of certain equity investments. The tax rate on our core business remains around 27%. The effective tax rate, though, is 24% for 2023, including the tax effect on the revaluation of certain equity investments as well as a net deferred tax asset impairment.

Thomas Toepfer

executive
#13

So the net income that comes out of that is EUR 3.8 billion, and earnings per share came in at €4.80... Now if we go to the following page, we can review how our US dollar exposure is covered. During full year 2023, forwards totaling $22.4 billion reached maturity, together with the related EBIT effect, and euro conversions were also realized at a blended rate of $1.20, compared with $1.22 across full year 2022. We also put in place $20.2 billion of fresh coverage during 2023, at a blended rate of $1.13. Consequently, the US dollar coverage portfolio in total stands at $91.7 billion, carrying an average blended rate of $1.23, versus $93.9 billion US dollars at a blended rate of $1.24 as of the close of 2022. Right now that portfolio is in the process of being adjusted through some rollovers, so that it mirrors the 2024 delivery target along with the delivery profile, which we anticipate will be somewhat back-end loaded. Let's now turn to the following page, where we take a more detailed look at free cash flow. Free cash flow before M&A and customer financing came to EUR 4.4 billion in 2023, and that mirrors, on one hand, the delivery level, and on the other, commercial momentum throughout all our businesses, particularly in December, which produced healthy PDP inflows.

Thomas Toepfer

executive
#14

Conversely, carrying out our ramp-up shows up as a mechanical inventory build. And just as a reminder, the A400M keeps dragging on our free cash flow before M&A. CapEx for the full year 2023 came to EUR 3.1 billion, which mirrors the money spent on improving and upgrading our industrial system. To underpin our ramp-up, we anticipate CapEx will keep rising in 2024, though at a somewhat slower rate. The free cash flow of EUR 3.9 billion takes in M&A activities of EUR 65 million and customer financing of EUR 436 million. I would say the environment for aircraft financing is still solid, with adequate liquidity in the financial markets for our products. During 2023, the customer financing cash outflow was largely tied to the planned fulfilment of certain contractual obligations, and naturally, we could see further cash usage down the road. As you can see, our net cash position was EUR 10.7 billion at the end of December, and liquidity is still comfortably above EUR 30 billion. With that, I will hand it back to Guillaume.

Guillaume Faury

executive
#15

Thanks, Thomas. Now let's turn to the divisions, beginning with commercial aircraft. During 2023 we handed over 735 aircraft to 87 customers, which matched our plan. Turning to how things stand across the aircraft families, on the A220 we delivered 68 aircraft, and we're continuing to ramp up toward rate 14 in 2026, while still working on the industrial maturity of the program and its financial performance. On the A320, we delivered 571 aircraft, including 317 A321s, which works out to 56% of the family's deliveries. So we're clearly above 50% when it comes to A321 deliveries. Production is moving along well toward the previously announced rate of 75 aircraft per month in 2026 — I want to stress that. In 2023, we began construction of the second A320 final assembly line capacities in Tianjin, in China, and Mobile in the US. In December, we delivered the first A321neo from the new final assembly line that we inaugurated in Toulouse in 2023, at the former Jean-Luc Lagardère site of the A380, as you may recall. On the XLR, our first customer aircraft entered the final assembly line in December, and entry into service is now expected in the third quarter later this year.

Guillaume Faury

executive
#16

Turning to wide-body: we handed over 96 aircraft — 32 A330s and 64 A350s. We're still on track for rate 4 on the A330 in 2024 and rate 10 on the A350 in 2026. Those two programs are also unchanged in our plans. Let's now turn to Airbus commercial's financials for 2023. Revenues rose 15% year-over-year, largely driven by a higher delivery count. EBIT adjusted climbed to EUR 4.8 billion from EUR 4.6 billion in full year 2022, driven by the delivery increase and a more favorable hedge rate, partly offset by investments preparing for the future. Full year 2022 had included a sizable non-recurring positive impact from retirement obligations and compliance-related topics, partly offset by the impact of international sanctions against Russia. In 2023, we released provisions of EUR 4.1 billion tied to compliance-related topics. That was in the first half of the year. Now to helicopters. In 2023 we delivered 346 helicopters, in line with full year 2022, though with a different mix... Revenues grew 4% year-on-year to EUR 7.3 billion, reflecting overall performance across programs and services. As a result, EBIT adjusted rose to EUR 735 million, and the profit margin came in at 10%, confirming the division's solid performance over the last few years.

Guillaume Faury

executive
#17

In 2022 as well, there were net positive non-recurring items. Looking ahead, our goal is to make that profitability sustainable, while we keep our commitment to solid program execution and ongoing improvements. Let's finish our review of the full year of 2023 with Defense and Space. Revenue rose slightly compared with the prior year, driven mainly by military assistance and CI, connected intelligence, partly offset by some updated estimates at completion assumptions on certain space programs. The decline in EBIT adjusted reflects the charges stemming from, sorry, the update of those estimates at completion, partly offset by the strong performance of the rest of the business in the period. Those changes come from a number of factors: revised timelines, cost estimates, and the reassessment of commercial risks and opportunities, as Thomas explained. On that subject, we had a bumpy ride last year, which is very frustrating, but today I believe we now have a balanced assessment across our space programs, noting that we operate in a high-tech business with complex and sophisticated products. We will keep monitoring our exposure closely. On the A400M, we delivered 8 aircraft in 2023. We are continuing development activities toward achieving the revised capability roadmap. Retrofit activities are moving forward in close alignment with the customers.

Guillaume Faury

executive
#18

During 2023, we carried out one more revision to the contract’s estimated completion, and we recorded a net charge of EUR 41 million. There are still risks around qualifying technical capabilities and the related costs for aircraft operational reliability, around cost reductions, and around securing the overall volume in line with the revised baseline. I’d like to remind you that the full year of 2022 contained certain non-recurring items, notably those stemming from the loss of the two Pléiades Neo satellites. Before we move on now to our 2024 guidance, Thomas will provide an update on how we define free cash flow. Thomas?

Thomas Toepfer

executive
#19

Absolutely — I'm looking at page 14 of the deck. Beginning on the first of January of 2024, we're changing how we define that alternative performance measure, free cash flow, so the company can gauge how much free cash flow its operations produce. This gives a more operational perspective and is entirely in line with market practices. Under the new definition, investment in financial assets will no longer be included, which de facto brings in M&A transactions as well as investment in funds. From this point forward, therefore, we will measure and report our performance using free cash flow before customer financing. To be clear, the net cash position is unaffected, the 2024 guidance is issued on that basis, and a reconciliation of free cash flow for previous years appears in the appendix. Let me just say once more, again, that this de facto excludes M&A transactions and investment in funds.

Guillaume Faury

executive
#20

Thanks, Thomas. Moving now to the guidance slide. In setting its 2024 guidance, the company's assumption is that there will be no further disruptions affecting the world economy, air traffic, the supply chain, the company's internal operations, or its capacity to deliver products and services. The company's 2024 guidance is pre-M&A. On that basis, for 2024 the company is targeting roughly 800 commercial aircraft deliveries, EBIT adjusted of between EUR 6.5 billion and EUR 7 billion, and free cash flow before customer financing of about EUR 4 billion. This guidance mirrors the growth trajectory we expect and the investments we are making to prepare for our future. Now, a few words about our key priorities before I take your questions. As we move through 2024, we stay fully committed to serving our customers and to the strong demand for our modern, fuel-efficient commercial aircraft, and to working closely with our global supply chain partners as we ramp up across all our programs — all our programs — with safety and quality at the heart of everything we do in a new organizational setup. To support our rising production rates, we will keep investing in, modernizing, and adapting our global industrial system. We operate in a fast-changing world where geopolitical shifts, the acceleration of innovation, and the growing importance of decarbonization are increasingly in focus, and we are working to meet the challenges and seize the opportunities ahead in those areas...

Guillaume Faury

executive
#21

This also requires transforming our Defence and Space division, which I touched on a bit earlier. Meanwhile, we continue advancing our ambitions in digitalization and decarbonization. For our commercial aircraft hub to succeed, and for the business's future overall, digitalization is a key enabler, and it will be essential to how we design, manufacture, and operate the next generation of civil and military products, particularly through DDMS. So for me, delivering on our digital roadmap is a key priority, and we'll keep exploring strategic opportunities in this area. Turning now to the Airbus decarbonization roadmap: we've established very strong foundations and ambitions, and we're now delivering concrete progress against design action plans. In 2023, we received validation from SBTi for near-term climate targets, and we're cutting CO2 emissions in line with that trajectory. We're acting as a catalyst to boost SAF, sustainable aviation fuel, and to grow SAF usage in aviation, beginning with our own. In 2023, SAF accounted for roughly 10% of our fuel needs at Airbus for transporting aircraft components and flight testing, along with certain delivery flights of commercial aircraft and helicopters.

Guillaume Faury

executive
#22

We've carried out several commercial demonstration flights alongside partners, and we've set up quite a few partnerships with SAF producers. On the innovation side, we're developing multiple technology building blocks for new aircraft designs — both for the next-generation single aisle, which will be able to fly on up to 100% SAF, and for the hydrogen-powered ZEROe, targeting a commercial aircraft that's ready to enter service in 2035. Not long ago we completed a successful engine fuel cell power on. We keep investigating technology breakthroughs and solutions that support both the fuel cell option and direct hydrogen fuel burn. What we're seeing from the fuel cell is strengthening our confidence in that technology. These efforts, among others, highlight how committed we are to acting in pursuit of a low carbon future, and to uniting airlines with industry players from every sector so we can shape a sustainable aviation. Last, before I hand things over for your questions, let me restate that holding our commercial positioning right across the business — and across all the businesses — and delivering on our growth potential stay our top priorities. I believe we're now ready for your questions.

Hélène Le Gorgeu

executive
#23

We’re moving into the question-and-answer portion now. When you ask a question, please state your name and your company. Kindly keep to 2 questions per turn, and sub-questions count toward that limit. And as always, please do your best to speak distinctly and at a slower pace so that everyone on the call—especially those of us here—can follow what you’re asking. Sharon, over to you to walk the participants through how this will work.

Operator

operator
#24

Thanks. We’re moving into the Q&A portion now. If you’d like to pose a question, key in star one one on your phone’s keypad. Again, that’s star one one on your phone’s keypad. We’ll take the first question now. Just a moment, please. Our first question is from Robert Stallard with Vertical Research. Please go ahead.

Robert Stallard

analyst
#25

Thank you very much, and good morning, everyone.

Guillaume Faury

executive
#26

Morning, Robert — hello, and how are you doing?

Robert Stallard

analyst
#27

Alright, thanks. First one's for Guillaume. I'd like to hear your thoughts on what the fallout might be from that door issue your competitor ran into recently. Then for Thomas, second thing: could you take us quickly through how you move from the 2023 free cash flow to the 2024 guidance? Thanks.

Guillaume Faury

executive
#28

Thank you, Robert. I'll begin with the first question. Clearly, much like numerous other companies in our sector, we are watching how things unfold following that incident—the door plug event. We have no direct role in it, of course, yet our practice is always to absorb every lesson from whatever occurs across the industry, lessons of widely differing types, and this is one such case. The ramifications come in numerous forms—I mean possible ramifications. We'll be watching how the supply chain responds, how the parties involved respond, how regulators respond. So I'd call that fairly standard, this effort to draw lessons, even though the event itself is far from standard. So yes, it is somewhat early to grasp precisely what the implications will be, but it is one among numerous topics, one among numerous variables, one among numerous information sources that we attempt to draw on so we can keep improving, keep anticipating, keep challenging ourselves regarding what we do and how we do it—that's essentially how I see it. And, as you've gathered, we have no direct involvement in these events. Thomas?

Thomas Toepfer

executive
#29

Okay, so regarding the cash flow bridge, Robert, here's how I'd think about it: starting from the EUR 4.4, there's obviously one major positive in 2024, and that's the volume uplift. If you use the midpoint of our guidance — the 65 additional aircraft we'll deliver — that should produce a high triple-digit positive on free cash flow for 2024. On the other side, as you've seen, we had very, very strong PDP inflows, and so a positive working capital effect in 2023, which won't repeat. And I'd say that's probably the same order of magnitude in 2024, negative, as the positive volume effect I just described. So those two offset each other. Then there are a few minor items, which I'd characterize as slightly negative. So slightly higher taxes, a bit more cash out for R&D, as we mentioned, and that essentially gets you to the guidance we described of around EUR 4 billion.

Operator

operator
#30

That's really useful. Thanks. Thanks. Now let's move on to the following question. Our next question is from Tristan Sanson of BNP Paribas. Please go ahead.

Tristan Sanson

analyst
#31

Morning, Guillaume, and morning to you, Thomas. Thank you for the questions. Both of them actually concern civil aircraft. The first is about the route to 800 deliveries in 2025. Could you walk us through what sits on the critical path for that ramp-up, particularly when it comes to managing the supply chain? And what would let you land at 810 or 820 by year-end if on-time delivery gets better within the supply chain? The second one concerns a somewhat later point on the calendar. I'd like to grasp where the civil aircraft business stands today in its readiness to hit your 2026 objectives across every program. You're well ahead of plan on staffing, and you're stepping up ramp-up costs. What remains for you to do to ensure those 2026 targets can be delivered? Many thanks.

Guillaume Faury

executive
#32

Yes, thanks, Christian. Tristan, apologies — those were two fine questions. So to put it the way I've been trying to, the 800 is about striking the right balance between really robust demand and what the supply chain can actually handle: ramping up and sustaining an efficient production system with heavy emphasis on quality and safety, which we always aim to guarantee. So the supply chain sits on the critical path. There are certain suppliers, or certain supplies from certain suppliers, that are critical, and every single year we devote an enormous amount of time to assessing the supply chain's capability as well as we can. And yes, we do have some critical paths. I'd rather not point fingers or call out the ones that are holding us back on our path. Whether we land at the 800, a bit above, or a bit below is really tied very closely to the supply chain itself and to delivery — that is, from the supply chain to Airbus. Because, as you implied, at Airbus we're already well-sized in 2024 to do more. On our production system, we're ahead of the curve. So now, on to your question about 2026.

Guillaume Faury

executive
#33

We're putting money into hardware and into people. That's essentially what has to be done. Regarding people, on the numbers, we hired heavily during 2023, in line with or a bit ahead of our plans, though we may go into the headcount bridge a little more later on. That's broadly very much in keeping with what we set out to achieve. There's substantial onboarding, training, and qualification work that we must ensure happens so that people become fully efficient and effective in their roles down the line. That's significant work under way at Airbus, and we're also tracking, as best we can, what is going on in the supply chain. What I term hardware — the production system itself — I've spoken at considerable length over recent years about what we've been doing across our aerostructure organizations, as well as the restructuring carried out in Spain, or the changes, I should say. The investment made in the UK for our wing factories, the new FALs around the world — you know, we go from 8 FALs before COVID to 10, ultimately, and we actually have 4 new FALs in progress. Equipping all FALs for the A321, and I went through a bit earlier what we've already accomplished, and so I think we're on a trajectory as far as the production system goes.

Guillaume Faury

executive
#34

To reiterate, our capacity to hit those 2026 goals — reaching rate 75 on the A320, rate 14 on the A220, rate 10 on the A350, and so forth. That capacity will come chiefly from how well the supply chain can keep pace with us and carry out the ramp-up alongside us, which worked well in 2023, and with roughly 800 in 2024, it will work well again. So that is essentially our plan, and we believe the 2024 plan and where we stand today on the ramp-up line up with our targets of reaching the rates I just mentioned by 2026. So yes, that ran a little long, but I think it is an important question, and it probably covers many other questions people might have, and I wanted to be clear and precise about it.

Tristan Sanson

analyst
#35

Thanks, Guillaume.

Operator

operator
#36

Thanks. We’ll move on to the following question now. The next question is from Phil Buller at Berenberg. Please go ahead.

Phil Buller

analyst
#37

Morning, and thanks for asking. I want to go a bit deeper, if I can, into what you're learning from the Boeing situation, or how your thinking is shifting on a few fronts, really. For instance, I know we remain committed to rate 75, along with the timelines for the various production increases, but there's a great deal of pressure on the supply chain, and that has been brought into question as part of the Boeing situation. So are you at all more worried, or inclined to ease some of that strain on the supply chain, whether in financial terms? And also things like the impetus — has it grown or fallen when it comes to developing the next generation single aisle in any way? And also, the special dividend versus buybacks looks like an incremental shift. I'm wondering how your thinking has basically evolved across various topics, and what lessons we're drawing from the Boeing situation more broadly? Thanks.

Guillaume Faury

executive
#38

Yeah. Thanks, Phil. I don't think the underlying philosophy has really shifted. I mentioned this not long ago, and I'll say it again: I suppose this keeps us quite humble, and we view it as one more reminder that ours is a complicated industry, where quality and safety can never be taken for granted. You've got to keep pushing yourself, redo your plans, study things, look ahead, and be slightly schizophrenic. Naturally, there are lessons. I believe I addressed that question somewhat earlier, and one lesson — not a brand-new one — is that you keep trying to consider all the stakeholders around you and look after every single one of them. If you concentrate too heavily on one, to the harm of the others, that can create imbalance over time. We aim to strike that balance every year, every day, and I won't claim we're perfect. That's the reason we keep examining what we're doing and pushing ourselves. That's also something we continually review and talk over with our board of directors, whose job is likewise to look somewhat from the outside at what we're doing and how we're performing, and where we're placing the priorities.

Guillaume Faury

executive
#39

That doesn’t affect the next generation or the investment we’re making to get our future ready. Right now we’re in a stage of getting digital systems ready, getting the production system itself ready, and you’ve seen that we have a high level of CapEx in those years, and we’re raising the CapEx level so we’re ready for the future. On the product side, we’re not in a phase of heavy investment in programs — we’re in a technology phase. So these are years when the pressure on R&D is probably lower than it will be over the next decade. That’s why we have some financial flexibility, and that wasn’t the case in 2020 and 2021, when we withdrew the dividend payment to shareholders so we could keep investing in products. Those were the years when we had the XLR, when we launched development of the A350 Freighter during COVID. So clearly, we’re very focused on preparing for the future. But when financial performance and visibility on the future allow it, we’re happy to pay a dividend, because that’s what we think we should be doing for our shareholders, who have been loyal to us over the years.

Guillaume Faury

executive
#40

So, as I mentioned, we're working to strike the appropriate balance among all stakeholder groups. And I noted before—I offered my genuine gratitude to Team Airbus, since ultimately it's their efforts that make all of this possible. And I honestly believe they performed very well last year in keeping the company progressing and working to preserve that equilibrium. So that brings me back to where I started. The philosophy remains unchanged, though there's added reason to stay vigilant, to be careful about our actions, to keep pushing ourselves—that's the spirit the team will carry going forward.

Phil Buller

analyst
#41

I appreciate that.

Operator

operator
#42

Thanks. We’ll move on to the next question now. The next question is from Olivier Brochet of Redburn Atlantic. Please go ahead.

Olivier Brochet

analyst
#43

Yes, good morning, and thanks so much for taking my questions. I'd like to revisit briefly the costs you're dealing with right now that I'd characterize as somewhat non-recurring over the longer term. Inflation, the headwind, the excess staffing, the new final assembly, the startup cost, the preparation costs for the XLR — how should we think about the ballpark for all of these costs, and how do they trend in 2025, 2026, in your view? And my second question concerns shareholder returns. You just touched on it, but how are you thinking about it going forward? And specifically, how do you arrive at the decision between a buyback and a special dividend? Thank you.

Guillaume Faury

executive
#44

Perhaps I’ll let you handle the questions. I want to make a few remarks about staffing. You referred to excess staffing. I wouldn’t characterize it as excess staffing. We hired at the levels shown in our release, and we raised Airbus’s headcount beyond what we had signaled a year earlier, so that warrants an explanation. In fact, it’s quite significant, because it’s roughly 13,700 when comparing the end of 2022 with the end of 2023. Within those figures, there are two changes I’d like to explain. First, we are consolidating additional entities relative to the end of 2022, so there is a scope change of approximately 1,700. So if you subtract 1,700 from 13,700, you get 12,000. Second, during the year, mainly in our subsidiaries responsible for aerostructures, we chose to secure skills, competencies, and stability in the workforce by transferring people who were subcontractors into employees with Airbus contracts. That was not something we had taken into account when we provided the headcount guidance or the outlook. As far as I recall, that adds another 2,300. So we arrive at around 9,500, which is more than what we had communicated.

Guillaume Faury

executive
#45

The hiring plan is actually doing well — on track, even a bit ahead. That said, my message to the team was: don't fall behind the curve when it comes to skills and competencies. We want to stay ahead of it. Attrition in 2023 came in lower than in 2022 and lower than what we had factored in. So what appears to be a really strong excess of resources, of headcount versus what we said a year ago, is in fact a minor one. I want this understood: we will keep hiring in 2024, and we will also keep enlarging the scope of consolidated entities where we consolidate staff. So that's something to be closely monitored and shared with you as we move forward. And that has given Thomas time to prepare an answer to your more general question on costs and shareholder returns. Thomas, I hand over to you.

Thomas Toepfer

executive
#46

Okay. So on costs, I think we stated that inflation would cost us EUR 200 million in 2023. That's what has played out. My expectation is that this could carry on into 2024, perhaps a bit under that figure, though the magnitude won't be dramatically different. You also noticed R&D went up in 2023. I'd expect that to keep rising in 2024 as well, at perhaps a somewhat slower rate, as I had mentioned. But I'd say those are the two key components to keep in mind regarding cost development in 2024. Now, it's a bit hard to predict where inflation heads in 2025. I don't believe it will return to zero, but it might flatten out somewhat more in 2025. Still, I think we'll have to see when guidance comes out a year from today. Now, on shareholder return, I'd say there were a number of factors we considered. So first, what mattered to us was sticking to our word: once we surpass the EUR 10 billion threshold in our net cash position, we would examine raising our shareholder returns.

Thomas Toepfer

executive
#47

We hit that threshold, perhaps a bit sooner than we ourselves had anticipated. So basically, what we did was listen to our shareholders. There's no clear consensus, I'd say, on whether folks prefer a special dividend or a share buyback. But those are the two views, and so what mattered to us in this situation was to put something in place fairly fast and pragmatically, and also to send a clear signal that we stick to what we've said. And second, looking at the amount we consider appropriate, we felt that at this point in time a special dividend would be the better tool compared with a share buyback. So I'd say there were a number of considerations, but the most important thing for us was that we stick to what we said earlier, which is that the EUR 10 billion threshold for net cash is something we would look into before increasing returns to shareholders. However, I'd also say clearly, this is not a mechanistic exercise going forward. So while we do think the philosophy is the right one, and I think I come back to the earlier question, have we changed our philosophy on this?

Thomas Toepfer

executive
#48

Obviously not. Still, this isn’t a mechanical task where you’d forecast out for each year.

Olivier Brochet

analyst
#49

All right, that’s useful. Thanks.

Operator

operator
#50

Thanks. At this point, we'll take the following question. The next one is from George Zhao, who is with Bernstein. Go right ahead.

George Zhao

analyst
#51

Yes. Hi there. Good morning, everybody. Starting with the first question: this week, you know, there was talk of 56 per month on the A320 builds as part of its guide. So I was wondering, you know, what rate of production are you at right now, and is 56 an average rate that you're able to produce over the course of this year? And second, related to that, could you explain the shift in the A321XLR entry from Q2 to Q3? And, you know, what does your guide assume about the deliveries in H2? And if the entry gets delayed by a few months, you know, can you easily substitute other models in place of that? Thanks.

Guillaume Faury

executive
#52

Yes, thanks for asking that. Regarding the A320 ramp-up, we delivered 571 aircraft in 2023, which supported the 735 planes. I can confirm we remain on track to reach rate 75 at some point in 2026, and the A320 family's share will stay very strong in 2024, contributing to roughly 800 deliveries. I'd rather not comment on monthly or quarterly production rates, since those figures don't really make much sense, particularly right now as we bring new final assembly lines online and transition some from A320 to A321s. That's a point I've made before, and I intend to stick with it. On the XLR, there's no significant change to customer deliveries beyond the slight delays we've seen, moving from Q2 to Q3 for entry into service. That's now arriving very soon, so we're naturally in close contact with our customers regarding deliveries. And once again, the 800, around 800 deliveries for this year, take into account this XLR entry-into-service scenario. So I think that's the best way to answer your question, at least as far as I'm able.

Operator

operator
#53

Thanks. Thanks. We’ll move on to the next question now. The next question is from Benjamin Heelan at Bank of America. Please go ahead.

Benjamin Heelan

analyst
#54

Morning, thanks for taking my question. I was hoping to ask about the Geared Turbofan and whether you could provide a bit of an update on how you see that progressing in 2024 and 2025.

Guillaume Faury

executive
#55

Yes. Hi, Ben. Thanks for asking. So with the GTF, as you'll recall, two main problems are on our plate. One is time on wing and the strain that places on parts availability and on our capacity to keep the fleet flying. Over the last two years, this has caused Airbus and Pratt & Whitney to rework the ramp-up plans so they could serve their airline customers—our airline customers—as well as possible. That's the first point. The second is the more recent recall programs, as I call them, for the metal powder issue, and that is proceeding in line with the assumptions Pratt laid out last year. So I'd say there's no significant change, nothing different from what we discussed on prior calls and in prior quarters, except that the recall campaign is unfolding the way it was structured and organized, and I'd view that as rather positive news, given the size and importance it holds for the industry. But we are in that difficult period with a lot of planes grounded and engines being inspected and retrofitted. So it's an important phase, but it is on track.

Benjamin Heelan

analyst
#56

All right. Now may I turn to the A350? What I had understood is that, as a program, it was roughly at breakeven around 2022. So could you give us some insight into how profitability on that program has developed during 2023, and how you expect it to develop in 2024? Thanks, everyone.

Guillaume Faury

executive
#57

Over to you, Thomas.

Thomas Toepfer

executive
#58

Absolutely.

Guillaume Faury

executive
#59

When it comes to progress, how would we describe it?

Thomas Toepfer

executive
#60

Well, I’d say the A350 is, of course, a program that’s profitable and has reached profitability. As we ramp the program up to rate 10, as we said, that profitability will increase. I wouldn’t go deeper into the individual contribution margins per aircraft, but I can say two things make us happy: how the ramp-up is progressing, and also the profitability we’ve reached for the A350 program.

Guillaume Faury

executive
#61

But let me add one thing, Ben, that might help with this answer. During 2023, we hadn't reached the ramp-up yet. At final assembly and delivery, the A350 is not yet on that ramp-up. I can't recall the precise delivery count for 2022, though it was approximately equal to our 2023 figure, and 2023 came in at 64. So as best I remember, 2022 was quite close to that number. As a result, the effect of higher deliveries isn't visible yet. That effect is on its way, beginning in 2024, and it will clearly grow substantially across 2025 and 2026, hitting 10 per month at station 40 by 2026. Also, the forward-looking profitability statement for the A350 program stems, of course, from volumes as well, and last year those volumes truly weren't there yet. Still, the perspectives in the forward-looking profitability statement for the A350 remain unchanged.

Benjamin Heelan

analyst
#62

All right, that's very clear. Thanks to you both.

Operator

operator
#63

Thanks. We’re moving on to the next question now. The next question is from Chloe Lemarie at Jefferies. Please go ahead.

Chloé Lemarié

analyst
#64

Yes, good morning, and thanks for taking my question. I actually have two, if that's alright. The first concerns Airbus Commercial, and it's a somewhat unusual subject, but services are genuinely becoming non-negligible when it comes to their share of revenue. So could you give us a sense of how we ought to think about growth there going forward, and what the effect on margin would be? Is this activity profitable for you, or would you still call it an investment area? And for the second one, apologies if I've missed that figure, but what is your ambition for headcount growth in Airbus Commercial in 2024, please? Thank you.

Guillaume Faury

executive
#65

Would you like to share a few thoughts about services and profitability?

Thomas Toepfer

executive
#66

What I can say is that within our service business, we've achieved solid improvement on the profitability side, and that makes us quite pleased. So I'd call that encouraging progress. If you stack us up against other companies in this space, our service share remains comparatively low, and it won't rise in such a large step. The reason is that we place heavy emphasis not on revenue expansion but genuinely on profitable growth for the service business. That, I believe, is what you'll observe going forward. So for services, I'd say we're highly satisfied with the profitability achieved up to now. When it comes to revenues, though, it won't serve as a major growth driver, or that large a growth driver, for 2024.

Guillaume Faury

executive
#67

And within our services business—specifically in Airbus commercial—we actually have support and services activities. Over the past several years, for fairly obvious reasons, we've placed a great deal of priority on supporting our customers. So we continue to expand the services portion, the one that generates revenues and margin. On that portion, indeed, we're satisfied with what we do. We aren't yet communicating on services turnover and profitability. That's perhaps something we could do going forward, but even so, it's going well relative to our own expectations. And booking levels in 2022 and 2023 have been rising, so that will support growth in services. Please also remember that we have services in helicopters. That's roughly 50% of the entire turnover, so that's another significant service business. And we also have services across our business lines in Defense and Space. So it's somewhat scattered. We aren't communicating on the overall size of services, but it's starting to be really significant at Airbus at group level, I would say.

Thomas Toepfer

executive
#68

Headcount.

Guillaume Faury

executive
#69

Headcount, yes. So are we providing guidance this year? I'd prefer to hold back on that somewhat, and I want to get a clearer picture of how we'll be consolidating the other entities, so my forecasts on headcount can be more accurate. Recruitment, though, has slowed considerably. We've pulled back very substantially — cutting the hiring pace by roughly half or so — since we're on track, given that we brought people in somewhat higher last year, somewhat faster than we had expected. And we're beginning to see stability for the year 2026 ahead of us in certain activities that sit significantly upstream within our own internal supply chain. So as we progress into 2024 and 2025, hiring will continue, though more slowly, and we may address the question of numbers later in the year, with a sharper view of what's needed to avoid the trap we fell into going into 2023.

Chloé Lemarié

analyst
#70

That’s great. Thanks so much.

Operator

operator
#71

Appreciate it. We’ll proceed to the following question now. The next question is from Christophe Menard at Deutsche Bank. Go ahead, please.

Christophe Ménard

analyst
#72

Yes, good morning, and thanks for taking my questions. I had a couple. First, you brought up the backlog, which is pretty substantial at this point. Could you speak to how that backlog is priced, and whether we should expect any inflection point in pricing in the years ahead? My second question is really about capital allocation. Could you revisit or share what your priorities are for M&A in 2024, and expand on that a bit more if you can? Thank you.

Guillaume Faury

executive
#73

Regarding pricing, I had the chance to address that question multiple times during the past year, and in my view the fourth quarter hasn't meaningfully altered the picture. Pricing for the A320 family remains steady and, I'd say, is doing fairly well. That said, we're now booking aircraft for the coming decade, so any pricing effect will only show up in the PNL many years down the road. The planes we're delivering in those years were ordered and contracted long ago. The situation differs somewhat with wide-bodies. There, we genuinely face much more short-term and highly aggressive competition from our dear competitor. We aimed to capitalize on the current period, with very strong products at Airbus, to expand our market share and strengthen our position in wide-bodies. That is what we achieved last year, so we're quite pleased with the results. Still, campaign by campaign, it is quite aggressive, and wide-body pricing continues to face considerable pressure. Turning to M&A priorities, I'd like to offer a few remarks. We don't want to get distracted from what we do. We want M&A opportunities or decisions to support Airbus's very core strategy, along with our existing business lines, divisions, and activities.

Guillaume Faury

executive
#74

Even so, plenty is happening around us. There are hazards in various places that occasionally push us toward fairly defensive M&A choices, yet there are also many opportunities. We're currently in a stage of digitalizing and decarbonizing our products and services for what lies ahead. That sits at the heart of our work, and it prompts us to consider M&A deals in the digital area. As you know, we're conducting due diligence on BDS, the BDS business of Atos. That effort is underway. To be extremely clear, we will not make any decision that isn't in Airbus's best interest, and the due diligence exists to verify a strategic fit, to help us understand the business lines better, and to see whether we'd reach a positive conclusion on that one, with everything related to transaction prices being okay. But we're also examining potential investment here and there on the sustainable aviation fuel side, since we want to serve that catalyst role. Of course, we aren't an energy player, but we view that as an opportunity to make sound investments and to enable the business we have in commercial and to move forward on other activities.

Guillaume Faury

executive
#75

These are quite specific areas we examine closely, and when it comes to financial discipline, we intend to remain very disciplined. But clearly, we're operating in a rapidly evolving global environment with various outlooks, and that's what we're reviewing carefully — but seriously.

Operator

operator
#76

Much appreciated. Thanks. Now we’ll move on to the following question. The next one is from Ken Herbert at RBC Capital Markets. Please go ahead.

Ken Herbert

analyst
#77

Yes, hello, and good morning. Thank you for taking my question. It's a two-part question, if I may. First, Guillaume, could you perhaps expand a bit on how confident you are about rate 75 in 2026 on the A320 family? And what is the risk — where do the bottlenecks lie, and how do you see the risk today that could push things further to the right? And second, could you perhaps just reset us on the incremental margin assumptions for that program as you move up in rate over the next few years? Thank you.

Guillaume Faury

executive
#78

Thanks, Ken. I'll begin with the first part, and Thomas, perhaps you can address the incremental margin. So we're on that trajectory, following our plan for what's called Rate 75 by 2026. At Airbus, the key enablers are either already in place or progressing well. I was delighted that we handed over the first A321 from the new A321 line in Toulouse last year. The headway on the new line in Mobile and in Tianjin is fully on track. The second A321 line we've launched in Toulouse will be ready in 2025, 2026, as far as I recall, maybe 2026. I believe that's the last one to join for Rate 75. And then we'll pass down the 2 A320 final assembly lines we also have in Toulouse. So we're in a strong position. We've succeeded in hiring. You may recall I was quite concerned about hiring and talent and competencies leaving just after COVID, but at Airbus, we're finding people in the right quantity and with the right skills. It probably requires more training and onboarding than we did previously, but that's working too.

Guillaume Faury

executive
#79

So I’d say the risks are more, as I mentioned earlier, external factors—the risk on the supply chain—and that’s where we’re placing a lot of priority, last year, this year, to understand the bottlenecks and the bottlenecks before it becomes a drag on the, on the ramp-up. We are in a fast-changing environment. The geopolitical changes are something we are also trying to understand better and proactively address, because these are other risks. I would say the geopolitical nature of the geopolitical risks, and then the nature of our business is really something that is very carefully monitored, because that’s probably in the risks that you were willing me to address, the ones on which we have little grip, and therefore we need to work better on resilience. That’s something we launched in COVID. We’re spending money, and that’s not something we are too specific on, but we’re spending money to improve the resilience of the supply chain, to improve the resilience of our business. The diversity on the plants, on the files, on the sourcing, is something that serves that resilience. And overall, I would say these are more the traditional risks in a more complex environment than new risks that we, that we see around the corner.

Guillaume Faury

executive
#80

So that's why I feel good about the 75 rate. Barring something like COVID or a worldwide crisis of that kind, you'll see ups and downs. Obviously we'll run into a few difficulties here and there, but I believe we're headed in the right direction.

Thomas Toepfer

executive
#81

On the margin side, to build on what Guillaume said, we're obviously still in the middle of ramping up. When we get to a stable Rate 75, that stability ought to help margins as well, since stability also brings efficiency. By the middle of the decade, once we've reached that state, assuming an incremental margin of roughly EUR 15 million — one five — per aircraft is probably the right ballpark figure. But again, we prefer to say roughly, and that of course accounts for some of the uncertainty we face between now and then. Still, I think that ballpark figure is what you should keep in mind when you think about it.

Hélène Le Gorgeu

executive
#82

Thanks a lot. Appreciate it.

Operator

operator
#83

Thanks. We’ll take the last question now. It comes from Ian Douglas-Pennant at UBS. Go ahead.

Ian Douglas-Pennant

analyst
#84

Thank you so much for fitting me in at the end. Yes, this is Ian Douglas-Pennant from UBS. First, on the part, I just wanted to give you a chance to discuss the longer-term margin implications. In the past, Airbus has stated that you would return to 2019 margins once deliveries were back at 2019 levels. I wanted to offer you the opportunity to either restate or revise that, whichever you think is appropriate. And second, regarding helicopters, could you go into a bit more detail for me, just so I can better understand why the margins were so strong, particularly in Q4? Is there, you know, a single delivery batch in there that we should be thinking about? I'm essentially trying to assess how sustainable that strength is, given the underlying industry strength. Thank you.

Guillaume Faury

executive
#85

Okay, thank you very much. So I'll address the question about helicopters. Q4 was really strong for helicopters. Unfortunately, helicopter deliveries were heavily weighted toward the end of the quarter — even more so than in commercial. That's not a situation we want. And it had an impact on the full-year margin. So Q4 shouldn't be looked at on its own. I'd strongly suggest viewing 2023 in its entirety, and also treating 2023 as a solid foundation for how the division develops. You've seen how turnover and margin percentage have evolved over recent years. As I mentioned in my opening remarks, that's something we very much intend to continue. In our view, the business and the markets can sustain that trajectory. Keep in mind that services are robust at helicopters, and that helps stabilize performance across the years. It's less exposed to helicopter deliveries than, say, commercial is, since services account for roughly 50% of Airbus Helicopters' turnover. On the margins-

Ian Douglas-Pennant

analyst
#86

Right.

Guillaume Faury

executive
#87

The chance to restate that, or not — the statement?

Thomas Toepfer

executive
#88

Yes. And here's how I'd think about it: first of all, naturally, we don't want to provide overly precise guidance past 2024. Today, 2024 is where our focus lies. Now, on your question—will we hit the same percentage guidance for return on sales once deliveries match those of 2019? My answer would be that since that time, the environment has shifted somewhat, in that we're operating in a high inflation environment. So mechanically, costs are of course rising, and we can partly pass those through to customers, which therefore affects the margin. What I would say, though, is that I can restate that once we return to the same deliveries as 2019, our EBIT in absolute terms should likewise match what we were printing in 2019. Again, margins might be impacted by an inflationary environment, which naturally we did not foresee when that statement was made. But directionally, I'd say we of course hold to the view that once we're back at that year's deliveries, we should also be in the same ballpark on profitability.

Ian Douglas-Pennant

analyst
#89

Thanks. That makes a lot of sense. And of course, you're referring to commercial there, not the whole group, right?

Thomas Toepfer

executive
#90

Yes. Yes.

Ian Douglas-Pennant

analyst
#91

I appreciate that.

Thomas Toepfer

executive
#92

Thanks for joining us.

Guillaume Faury

executive
#93

I believe it was the group margin we pointed to two or three years back that would return to where it had been. Still, I'm not certain that it changes things much.

Thomas Toepfer

executive
#94

It doesn’t really matter much. However, I believe the comment that was given back then—it wasn’t from me personally—was, I think, about the whole group rather than the commercial business in particular.

Guillaume Faury

executive
#95

Right, that reflected the thinking behind what was said back then.

Ian Douglas-Pennant

analyst
#96

Much appreciated.

Guillaume Faury

executive
#97

Thanks. Hélène?

Hélène Le Gorgeu

executive
#98

Yeah, thanks. That brings today's conference call to a close. Should anything else come up, just email Philippe, Olivier, Gaspard, or me, and we'll respond as quickly as we can. Thanks, and we hope to see you or talk with you again before long.

Guillaume Faury

executive
#99

Thanks, Hélène. Thanks, everybody. Have a great day!

Operator

operator
#100

Thanks very much, ladies and gentlemen. That brings the conference to a close, and you're free to hang up your phones now. We appreciate you being with us, and we hope the rest of your day goes well. Take care.

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