Alimak Group AB (publ) (ALIG) Q4 FY2025 Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Welcome to the Alimak Group Q4 2025 Report Presentation. [Operator Instructions] Now I will hand the conference over to the speakers, CEO, Ole Kristian Jodahl; and CFO, Sylvain Grange. Please go ahead.

Thank you, and welcome, everyone, to our quarter 4 '25 call. And as always, I have Sylvain with me here. Turning page, yes, recapping the group a little bit. We are a diversified global industrial group focusing on vertical access and a leader in the segments that we are focusing on. We have some fundamental drivers supporting our business like urbanization, electrification, regionalization, robotization also with our movable platforms and health and safety. Strong presence, long history, which means we have a lot of installed base around the world, which is great for our Service business, which is the fundamental piece of each division. And we also run with a capital-light operation, which means that it's a solid financial business. Turning page, our strategy. We started 2020 with what we call the New Heights, and that has served us well. And this is also what we talked more about in the Capital Market Day a couple of months ago, and we are now into the second phase of this and stronger profitable growth in the coming years. Turning page, we also upped our financial targets last time we spoke, and we have an average annual revenue growth target of 8% to 12%, and we also said that we should reach 20% adjusted EBITA margin by 2028. And also relevant for today, it's our dividend payout ratio policy of 40% to 60%. Turning page. So diving into Q4. Yes. So happy to see we are continuing with a strong organic growth for the group, but also a little bit disappointing with mixed profit performance in the quarter. But the strategy continues to work well. We have 4 out of 5 divisions with strong organic growth, Facade Access up 18%; HSPS 14%; Wind 72% and also Industrial 4% in the quarter, while then very disappointing was Construction, of course, which is down 29%, but driven entirely by the difficult market condition. And also affecting the group heavily still, which has done for a couple of quarters is the currency effect, the strengthening of the SEK. So in the quarter, we had negative impact of 9% on order intake, which is SEK 158 million, but also a significant negative impact on EBITA of SEK 26 million in the quarter and also a significant effect full year. EBITA margin, 16.8%, disappointing as you understand. And again, Construction is the one that pulls this heavily down, but also multiple smaller things within several divisions, which didn't provide any help in the quarter. But strong financial position and cash flow was SEK 276 million, giving a leverage of 1.76. Turning page, looking briefly at the full year. So yes, and we have delivered, I think, a strong order intake also for the full year. It's up 8% -- even though it's been a challenging market from an external point of view, we have had many headwinds. And one is the currency effect I just talked about. We also had the U.S. tariffs, which have impacted demand during the year. And of course, this global construction market, which is remaining difficult. We also had the Wind market, which delayed order intake over a couple of quarters that the U.S. administration put pressure on that market, but something we now see has changed. And also full year, 4 out of 5 divisions show strong organic growth on order intake, HSPS up 6%; Facade Access 14%; Industrial 15%; Wind 17%, while Construction division is then down 10%. Happy to see that we're also lifting margin, even though, of course, we entered the year believing and feeling confident we should be able to do more but with everything around us, I think it's been a year of consolidation and where we have also continued to invest, and we are absolutely ready for moving forward and taking the group to the next level. Strong financial position, which means that the Board of Directors proposed a dividend of SEK 3.3, which is up 10% to last year. Turning page. Details of Q4. Order intake was SEK 1.808 billion, down 2% or up 6% organic. Good contributions then from Facade Access, Wind, HSPS, but also Wind growing. Weak in Construction. Revenue was SEK 1.692 billion, down 7% or up 1% organic. And here, it was HSPS and Construction, which contributed positively in the quarter, while we saw a decrease in Facade Access and Wind. Adjusted EBITA, SEK 284 million, down from SEK 320 million, giving this margin of 16.8% versus 17.6%, 11% decline year-over-year. And here, 8% is due to the currency, but also, of course, the weak margin in Construction and also in HSPS. Turning page. Service remains to be, of course, a fundamental thing for the group for all divisions and order intake decreased by 5%, but 4% organic increase to SEK 604 million. Organic growth was driven by Facade Access, Industrial and Wind. Revenue decreased 8%, flat organically to SEK 658 million, and we saw a good performance in Wind and Industrial. For the full year, organic order intake increased 4% and revenue increased 7%. Turning page, Facade Access. Order intake was SEK 511 million, up 6% or 18% at constant currency, so strong order intake and also a positive book-to-bill here, which is the first time we have seen in some quarters. So it's a very good sign. We had good momentum in the Middle East. We saw refurbishment in Netherlands and also U.K., we saw good momentum in the quarter. North America continued to do well for us, mostly driven by all our great initiatives with Integrated Design Services, low-complexity solutions and also on the infrastructure side with a nice variation order in the nuclear segment. Revenue was SEK 447 million, down 15% or down 5% at constant rates, and it's reflecting the lower order intake in the previous quarters. EBITA at SEK 68 million, down from SEK 82 million, giving still a strong margin of 15.1% versus 15.7%, and it was a high comparable towards last year. So I'm happy with this margin. And yes, somewhat reduced fixed cost absorption due to lower revenue, but also supported well by our continued operational improvements. Turning page. So the BMU market continues to be somewhat challenging, and we only take what we really are comfortable with from a contract and the margin perspective, but we had some nice wins in the quarter, especially in Asia. And then it's the strategy we drive with Integrated Design Services, infrastructure and also RRR or aftermarket, which is continuing to also bring very nice orders for us. And yes, positive outlook going forward. Optimized manufacturing is also, of course, something that has been on our agenda for a while, as you know, and we are now in the -- or we finalized the improvement and the cost down in the CoxGomyl factory in Spain, and this is something that will also support us now into 2026 and onwards. We, in addition, made cost of SEK 40 million related to closing down of one legacy project, which has been painful. And overall, you could say historically, the situation with Facade Access has been a bit painful, but I'm very happy to see that we have very good progress in fixing this division. And operationally, we are really on a good move now. Turning page, Construction. Again, a challenging quarter. And it's what we see that the willingness from our customers on the Rental side and also on the construction companies to drive CapEx investments into machinery when there yards are not fully utilized as it is. That's, of course, very difficult. And also in the last quarter, it was -- also the aftermarket was lower because machines are standing in the backyard and thereby underutilized. So order intake was SEK 300 million, down 36% or 29% at constant rates. Revenue was SEK 380 million, down 5% or up 5% constant rates and supported by previously booked orders, but also some light equipment projects in U.K. and U.S. EBITA at SEK 36 million, down from SEK 44 million, giving a margin of 9.4% versus the 11.1%. And yes, decline was primarily driven by the lower revenue, but also some negative mix effect. And this is, of course, well below what we would like to see and believe that this business can deliver. But it's under current revenue situation, it is what it is. Turning page. We are continuing to drive, and that's also what has been the essential piece of this division like with any other division since we started New Heights to take control of our own destiny. So we have focused heavily on product development, being closer to customers and driving new solutions, and this has served us well. So if it hadn't been for this, the situation in the division would have been much worse as we speak. And we see some nice successes now coming on the STS300, the scaffolding transportation system. We are launching a new work platform also. And also in the quarter, we have changed EVPs. I'm very happy to have Karin Baathe appointed as our new Head of Construction Division, and she will start on April 7. I would also like to mention that we start to see some few positive signs in the European market, not so far in the North American market, but in the European market and in the Nordics, we see and hear that our -- some of the Rental customers start to get back CapEx budgets. So there are some positive signs to maybe that we are at the bottom point of where we see the Construction business. Turning page, Height Safety and Productivity Solutions. Very pleasing to see strong order intake after 2 soft quarters and -- meaning that our transformation works, but it's still a lot more to do here. Order intake was SEK 358 million, up 6% or 14% organic. We had strong momentum in the Middle East and India on the elevator segments, but also North American market was good. We continue to see a challenging construction market and specifically in Europe, which is then also affecting order intake negatively. Revenue was SEK 312 million, down 2% or up 6% organic and influenced by the softer order intake in the previous quarters. EBITA, SEK 47 million, down from SEK 56 million, giving a margin of 15% versus 17.5% and multiple effects, unfavorable product mix. We have increased investments in product development, marketing and sales, and we also had some one-offs in the quarter, putting pressure on the margin. Turning page, full speed in the transformation of this business. And really, as you know, it's been resilient from a profit perspective, but not growing. So that's what we are driving, and that also means some disturbance, of course, inside the organization and investment. So we are reorganizing sales, and that's ongoing both in Europe, in North America, and it's about getting closer and more aggressive in the market. We focus heavily on where we see high potential segments. We accelerate product development, more products in the making to come to be launched very soon. And we also, of course, drive operational improvement projects like LEAN in the factories to ensure that we also utilize our resources in the most effective way. And of course, we win some nice ones, and that's also good to see. Turning page, Industrial. Order intake, SEK 439 million, up 1% or 4% organic. We had strong equipment order intake in Americas, Asia Pacific, but offset by some timing of some projects in Europe. Several projects won within power, mining, oil and gas. So these are strong segments for us and continue to be. And we also had a stable aftermarket in the quarter. Revenue, SEK 415 million, down 2%, up 1% organic, solid equipment deliveries despite some project delays. EBITA at SEK 106 million, down from SEK 108 million, giving still a very strong margin of 25.5% versus 25.7%, slightly diluted by some mix effects, but also put under a little bit pressure from the Century acquisition, which, as you know, we said was according to group margin levels, but not fully at Industrial margin levels. So that's something we feel comfortable we will be able to lift and important contribution going forward. Turning page. We focus on also here, taking control and mining and Latin America has been an important focus for the division as many other things. And very nice to see we are investing and it's also paying off. We are also investing, of course, in the aftermarket and have launched a new e-learning for operators, which should also generate more revenue streams within the aftermarket going forward. Turning page to Wind. Very strong order intake after 2 softer quarters, and the order intake was SEK 209 million, up 59% or 72% at constant rates. Strong recovery in U.S. and also solid performance in Europe. APAC continued to be important and high performing for us. And here, we also clearly see we are taking market share gains, working with our strong Chinese partners in the Asian market. Revenue was SEK 150 million, down 10% or down 2% at constant rates and is reflecting the lower order intake in the previous quarters. And that was again put under pressure due to the U.S. administration. EBITA at SEK 28 million, down from SEK 29 million, but giving a strong margin of 18.7% versus 17.4% and again, supported by excellent operational activities with price management, cost management and operational efficiency. While at the same time, we continue strong investments in R&D. Turning page. The Wind market globally going forward is being slowly and steadily pushed upwards. So it looks good in the years to come. This will remain an important energy source. And we put high pressure, of course, on developing products and solutions. It's a market very automotive driven, where is a cost down pressure from our customers all the time. So we need to really be on our toes, and that's what's really also making us great because we are able to do that in a good way. With that, we turn page to profit and loss, and I hand over to Sylvain.

Thank you very much, Ole. Good morning, everybody. So in the quarter, adjusted EBITA decreased by 11%, 3% organically, whilst revenue decreased by 7% and grew slightly organically. So we see a quarterly adjusted EBITA evolution, which is slightly worse than the revenue evolution, and that is primarily driven by the lesser absorption of SG&A cost, and I'll come to that on the next slide. I'd like to mention that on a yearly basis, adjusted EBITA performed slightly better than revenue. And so we see a small margin expansion to 17.4%, although that is still short of our expectations. Items affecting comparability in the quarter relate to the Facade Access division. The main component, SEK 40 million is a nonrecurring loss with respect to the last remaining legacy project. And the rest comes from the restructuring activities, which are now fully completed. The plan was executed within the total SEK 60 million cost, which we had announced, and we still expect SEK 30 million of annual cost savings. The quarterly amortization is in line with the previous quarters and our expectations and the decrease versus Q4 2024 relates to some Tractel related intangible assets, which are now fully amortized. And looking forward, we should see a similar level in 2026. Finance net in the quarter is up versus Q4 2024. That's coming mainly from foreign exchange favorable effects, which we had in Q4 2024 and were not repeated in Q4 2025. We are still slightly above the expected level of SEK 40 million per quarter in '25 that is due to our investment in Skyline Robotics, which value was decreased in the quarter to reflect the financial performance, but we are still very confident in the future of robotics for the Facade Access division. Taxation rate in the quarter was 25.3%, up versus Q4 2024 and that's coming from the country mix, but 25.3% is close to our expectation of around 25% for the group. So in the quarter, net earnings come down by SEK 91 million. That's a 47% reduction and the main contributor to the decrease is IAC. For the full year, the net earnings decreased by 3% -- and if one excludes IAC and the related tax effect, it's a small increase of 3% in the year versus 2024. So we now move to gross margin and operating expenses. Excluding IAC, gross margin went up in the quarter from close to 40% in Q4 '24 to 41.6%, excluding IAC in Q4 '25. And Facade Access and Wind are the 2 divisions which have driven that increase. And in both divisions, that reflects improvements in operational efficiencies. In Facade Access, we start to see the benefit of the restructuring program. And in Wind, the quarter was supported as well by some favorable product mix effect. To be complete on that, we saw a slight margin degradation in the HSPS and Construction divisions. As a percentage of revenue, operating expenses, excluding IAC went up in the quarter. And again, the same 2 divisions drove the increase, Facade Access and Wind, and that's due to some investments, in particular product development in Wind division. But overall, at group level, the SG&A share of revenue has grown faster than the gross margin expansion, and that has resulted into the small EBITA -- adjusted EBITA margin expansion -- degradation, sorry. And that means the work we do on cost efficiency is even more critical. We don't plan any additional restructuring program at this stage. We do surgical work. We hunt waste. We hunt cost inefficiencies. And at the same time, we continue to invest in some expenses, again, typically R&D, sales and marketing to fuel the profitable growth. And I'm now coming to results for the period and EPS. So the result for the period was SEK 103 million versus SEK 194 million in Q4 2024, that's a 47% reduction. Excluding IAC, the result was SEK 164 million versus SEK 200 million in Q4 2024, that's an 18% reduction. EPS was SEK 0.98 versus SEK 1.83, 47% reduction. We have had the same number of shares. Adjusted for IAC and acquisition-related amortization, EPS was SEK 1.64 versus SEK 2.21 and that's a 26% reduction. We have generated solid cash flows in the quarter. This has been the best quarter in 2025, and that's mainly coming from the working capital reduction of close to SEK 120 million. And you should remember that Q4 2024 was exceptionally high. If we look at the full year, we saw a small -- somewhat working capital increase of SEK 90 million, and that's primarily coming from the Construction division. This is due to some increases in stocks in some geographies in a voluntary way to be able to seize commercial opportunities, but we were affected as well by the softer revenue. Although it's not impacting operating cash flows, I'd like to make one comment on CapEx, which this quarter included the acquisition of the Century Premises. That was an opportunity to establish ourselves long term in Houston and recoup the operations of the Construction and Industrial divisions locally. Excluding this purchase, CapEx is well in line with our expectation, the historical practices of Alimak, and this is 2.3% of the 2025 full year revenue. So in short, cash generation is and will continue to be in very high focus. The net debt at the end of Q4 2025 was SEK 2.4 billion, down from SEK 2.6 billion at the end of Q3 and the decrease comes from the operating cash flows, partially compensated by the Interlift acquisition and the CapEx. Leverage at the end of the quarter is 1.76, slightly down versus Q3, and that remains well within our target of being below 2.5. As I already said, we will continue to focus on cash generation in order to contribute to future deleveraging. Our capital allocation priorities remain unchanged. We will invest in organic growth, as I've commented a few times in typically R&D, sales and marketing. We continue to actively work on acquisition opportunities. And then we have room for maneuver with our relatively low leverage. So we have generated [indiscernible] here to make those acquisitions. And we are committed to delivering our dividend policy, and you have seen that the Board's proposal for this year is again within that policy. One final comment on ROCE, which is an important metric for us. It decreased in the quarter to 24.7%, excluding goodwill, 10% including goodwill to be compared with 26.1% and 10.6%, respectively, in Q3 2025. And that decrease is driven by the lower profit margin in the quarter. On that note, I will hand over to Ole for some concluding remarks.

Thank you, Sylvain. And yes, we turn to the summary slide. So New Heights continue to serve the group very well, and we end the year with strong organic growth, which we have seen throughout the full year, so up 8%, as I was saying, the organic growth for the year. Profit somewhat mixed and a bit disappointing in Q4, but full year, we are increasing and that I'm happy to see. So it's maybe a year of a little bit consolidation before we also continue our step up towards the financial targets of 20%. We see the geopolitical tensions around us in the world, we are sure will drive local and regional investments, which will be an important piece, of course, also for us going forward. Short term, construction market will remain subdued and at least for the first half, even though we believe that maybe we should start to see some improvement towards the second half and that we are most likely at some turning point. We see some positive signs in Europe at the beginning of the year. Strong financial position for the group, which means that we are well set to continue to take the group to new heights and deliver on our both financial and sustainability targets going forward as we have done. So with that, I would like to thank all our employees, customers, partners, shareholders for their support, and we turn page and move to Q&A.

[Operator Instructions] The next question comes from Sofia Sorling from DNB Carnegie.

Can you hear me?

Yes.

So I will focus on the Construction division for my first question. And yes, so order intake was down 36% year-over-year. And obviously, the order intake is volatile from quarter-to-quarter. But would you say the order intake reflects a more negative underlying market now for you? And are you preparing for even worse underlying market into 2026? Or do you expect to stay same low levels? Or do you expect an improvement from here? I'm curious about your reasoning here given what you see.

Yes. It's a good question, and I wish I would know. I don't know. But we believe that we have seen the worst of it. We believe it shouldn't become worse. We -- as I said, we are hearing and seeing that some Rental customers in the Nordic start to get back investment or CapEx budgets for 2026, something that hasn't been there since '23. And so there are some positive signs. But we saw the order intake was very low in Q4. So of course, that will follow us also now in the beginning of the year. We are taking whatever measure we can, of course, on the factory side, on the cost side, in the sales and everywhere to make sure we save and to make sure we hold back on everything that we could hold back on because protecting profit is the first and the foremost. But at the same time, we don't want to make stupid moves, as I've said all along because it's just a question of time, and it will start to move slowly and steadily in the other direction. And we have continued to invest throughout all this period. We are lean. We are very lean as a group. We are also very lean in Construction. So it's not really a question of that. It's more to also be able to stand through this period, I believe, and be very, very cautious with cost. I can't say for sure that we will see better times during '25, but I would believe so that we will start to see some improvements throughout the year.

Okay. Yes. And could you give more color on where you see the weak order or the weakest order trend in the Construction division? Like does it differ depending on geographical regions? Or is it the same levels in many of your countries?

No, it's mostly North America and Europe. And that's been the core market for our hoist business, which was really the dominant piece of this division when we started New Heights. And basically, all of it was focused on that. So we have driven a strategy over these last years to really go to new markets, strengthen our presence all across Asia. We have built up a solid, very high-performing factory in China, which is serving all non-CEE markets, Eastern Europe, Asia Pacific, Middle East, Latin America with high-quality machines, very cost competitive out of that factory, which has served us extremely well. We have lifted and driven globally now this used strategy, et cetera, et cetera. So these are things that has helped us a lot during the last years, while the market has been depressed. But now the market is even more depressed in North America and Europe, what we saw rock bottom in 2025. It will still remain challenging on the new hoist in North America and Europe in '26. But we believe, at least in Europe that we will start to see some improvements in '26, and we think we already do slightly. So -- but North America, I don't see anything yet.

Okay. You touched upon it earlier when you answered my question, but what could you do in-house in order to improve margins in the Construction division? Or how much are you dependent on the underlying market to pick up?

Yes, the market -- the margin is now 10%. So -- and the full year was 14%, same last year. So we have been able to maintain a 14% margin on a full year base, which if you go back historically, that would be, I think, one of the -- you need to have peak years to be on or slightly maybe above that level. So I think the margin that we still deliver for this business, we shouldn't neglect. And then also since I came here, we have changed in the sense that we have -- we do not have excess resources. We are very lean in all parts of the organization. So I don't feel it's about cost or excess cost in that sense. Of course, you have a significant factory in China and also in Skelleftea and it's the Skelleftea factory, which is under most pressure because they have these hoists that go to North America and Europe. But that factory also supports the Construction division. So we need to keep a balance in that sense. And it's also -- so we have a very good dialogue with the unions. We save cost. We use short-term unions are active educating and investing in our people. So we do all these things absolutely. But I don't foresee that we can take that to a much lower level than where we are today. So then it's also a question of activity level in all parts of the world that we utilize whatever we can. And that's, I think, what we have been very good at. But it also has some limitations. So you can't create what is not there. But we believe that we are, as I said, in a place where things slowly and steadily should start to move into a more positive direction again.

Okay. And then I have a question on your HSPS division. So the margin dropped during Q4. It was clearly below your financial target and also historical levels, I would say. And -- how should we think about the development of this business going into 2026 versus 2025? And also, if you can give some more color on, yes, the specific margin drop within this division during Q4.

Yes. It's a disappointing margin, of course, what we saw in Q4 here below, as you say, also very clearly what we have as an ambition and also where we believe this business should be and it has been historically. But at the same time, it's a quarter where we have multiple things hitting us. They are also quite significantly construction exposed, and that was very low in Q4 in Europe. And HSPS is mostly Europe and North America. They are not so much into Asia Pacific. But this is also now -- so I would say the main reason for the drop was the lower revenue, which is then coming from a low construction market in Europe and also some one-offs that we took in the quarter because we are changing. We are updating the organization. So it's in many aspects, some people changes and focus, et cetera. And then we are also investing in sales and marketing and going forward, product development. So in a way, you could say that we focus on this division when we got it into the group was really to ensure we stabilize it, get control over it and so forth. But now the mandate to Jose Maria when he went in a year ago was really to ensure that we turn this division into a profitable growing business because it had not been growing over the last years. And then we see it's a lot of things we want to do. So we are changing a lot in sales. We are changing a lot in the factories. We are much more active out in the market, and we are much more active in product development, driving a lot of things there. So I don't foresee that this should be turning anything worse than what we are seeing, but there is a lot of things happening inside that division, which -- but it will be for the good absolutely going forward.

[Operator Instructions] The next question comes from Timo Heinonen from Handelsbanken Markets.

I'll start with the Industrial division. You mentioned that it was some timing effects on orders in Europe. Can you quantify how big that effect was?

No, I don't want to give you a correct number on that one, but we expected some order intake in the quarter, but something that moved into Q1. And this is a bit a normal thing also, but it's a good strong order intake, but it was more a remark towards maybe people and we are all used to having double-digit order intake in that business for a long, long time. So just to explain that still we see a very good order intake level in this business.

Okay. Okay. Then it seems that you are performing very well on the mining end market. What is the average size of the mining orders? Are they bigger than the orders from the other end markets or segments?

You asked a question, I can't answer actually. So I do not know. I cannot answer.

Okay. But then the Industrial outlook. Of course, it has been super, super strong performance in the last couple of years. And it sounds that it is still a very positive outlook. But can you say anything about the sales funnel or pipeline or I mean how they have developed to give us some understanding that how fast you could grow in '26?

You talk about Industrial still, yes?

Yes, yes.

No. But I think we don't see a really slowdown in this business. But of course, we also need to take into note we have done extremely well and over a long time. And it's not never anything. It's just a straight line upwards. So it will be some sort of levels. But of course, we are better every day at attending to customers. We are in more places every day because we move forward and we develop our portfolio and we do more with our customers. So absolutely, we expect this to continue to grow. But also, of course, as you grow it, you also meet higher comparables all the time. So that also needs to be taken into account that -- but we believe this is to remain a very solid, growing, highly profitable division for us as we -- and as Jens talked very clearly about a couple of months ago.

Okay. Then I move to Facade Access. And of course, now the legacy projects are delivered, so the margin of the backlog must be clearly higher. Can you say anything about the margin of your legacy Facade Access backlog?

I can't give into the detail of the margin. But what we have done over the last years is completely change the way we work in this division. So we are changing the way we sign the contracts. We are changing the profit, how we calculate ensuring we have full control over that as much as you can have, of course, in that type of business and that we are not taking contracts which we should not take or provide a significantly profitable margin for us. We are always building in contingencies et cetera, et cetera, plus that we have a very, very rigid and solid process to follow up projects to drive change orders, et cetera, during delivery or basically from the time we get the order. So -- and that process that I now described is there now with the order book we are having. So we are not having anything really in the order book anymore of these type of contracts in the past where it was very different -- or we didn't have the same control on the terms and conditions. We didn't have the same profit perspective because then it was more to get orders to fill factory. And we didn't have any contingency, which is a fundamental piece, and we didn't have the process to really ensure throughout the life since we -- from the moment we signed the contract until we have delivered it and got paid everything that we have full control. So that piece is behind us. That's what we now mean also with the legacy projects. So -- and what that means, that means that now we have control over it. But it also means that we live in a real world. So I cannot sit here and promise forever that we will not have a sour project, but we will not have sour projects that we have had in the past, where it was nothing in place basically from the beginning. Now we have all the fundamentals in place, but still, we can, of course, face issues.

And then if you look at the fourth quarter profitability and of course, excluding the one-offs and the delivery of the legacy orders, I mean, was it something kind of special in the fourth quarter? Or was it a clean quarter, excluding the legacy projects?

For Facade Access, it was a good -- I would say it's a relatively straightforward quarter, nothing really special. So I think what you should expect from us going forward, you need to recognize quarters also historically and so forth, but that we slowly and steadily continue to improve our margins, but not that everything now jumps from 16% or from -- to 15% or everything jumps. But you need to -- so if you go back and look at our Q1 last year, we should absolutely improve compared to Q1 last year. And we should be on that journey now, continue to be on that journey.

The next question comes from Anders Jafs from SB1 Markets.

Just one final question there on Facade Access because you mentioned now a couple of quarters these Integrated Design Services in North America having good momentum. Are those types of services something you [ excludedly ] offer in North America? Or is that also in other regions? Or could you expand those to other regions? And has that been a sort of extra part in boosting the margins lately? Or is that anything you could comment on?

No, absolutely, I like the question. It's an important piece. IDS is -- if you just bear with me 2 seconds, it's -- we analyzed and try to understand why is it or how to get more -- or how does this overall business work. And then we realize that we are far ahead -- far away from actually the real decision maker. We were offering to consultants and dealing with consultants, which can have a lot of different incentives to decide upon who should deliver versus really the customer that were sitting with the machine for 30 years. And when we really realized that and we said this cannot go on, we decided to start that type of service ourselves. So we are becoming the consultants in this value chain. And that means that you are dealing with the general contractors and you're much closer to the final customer, plus you are sitting in this position where you are more or less basically advising them on which supplier to choose, and we are one of the suppliers. So you see it gives us a good spot. This was taken on board very quickly and very well in the North American organization, which was at that time headed by Herve, which is now head of this whole division. And they also took on this service and they took on the infrastructure. So Herve has really with his structure there has been the structure and the brain and the capability to get this done and to make it commercially viable and business. And of course, yes, this is something which they are now moving to the rest of the world. Herve is driving that very strongly. And we have already done it in Europe. We have examples in Europe where we're now also taking IDS contracts. So it's there, and it will be a global thing, absolutely.

I see. I see. And just maybe touch upon or give some more color also on -- because you also mentioned within Facade Access getting a growing amount of orders within the nuclear industries. Is that a subsegment that is growing rapidly? Or is that something you would like to comment extra on or give some color on?

No, it's too early to say it's growing rapidly, but we all know that nuclear will be or most likely will be a very important and back on the table energy source in the years to come, but projects are long and it's -- but most likely a very interesting segment going forward. And we focus on infrastructure. That's really what we -- because, again, the group I came to had extreme focus, pure focus on these big BMUs. And we said with the market depressed and all of that dependency on that, we have no control. So that's why we decided to go for infrastructure. And then we have done some very nice bridge projects. We have done some tunnel projects. We have now also won lately a couple of nice nuclear projects. And it will be more of this. And we also see that it's something we manage very well.

There are no more phone questions at this time. So I hand the conference back to the speakers for any written questions and closing comments.

Yes. Thank you. We have on our screen here, no further questions. And I think it's been plenty of time to also write it. So unless something pops in the next second, I think that -- yes, it's not. So then I would like to thank you all for listening in and also for great questions. And thank you until next time.