Alkem Laboratories Limited (ALKEM) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

August 6, 2021

National Stock Exchange of India IN Health Care Pharmaceuticals earnings 59 min

Earnings Call Speaker Segments

Operator

operator
#1

Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and a very warm welcome to the Alkem Laboratories Q1 FY '22 Earnings Conference Call, hosted by Motilal Oswal Financial Services Limited. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Tushar Manudhane from Motilal Oswal. Thank you, and over to you, Tushar.

Tushar Manudhane

analyst
#2

Thanks, Ali. Welcome to Q1 FY '22 earnings call of Alkem Laboratories. From the management side, we have Mr. Sandeep Singh, Managing Director; Mr. Rajesh Dubey, Chief Financial Officer; Mr. Amit Ghare, President, International Business; Mr. Yogesh Kaushal, President, Chronic Diseases; and Mr. Gagan Borana from the Investor Relations. Over to you, Gagan, for the opening remarks.

Gagan Borana

executive
#3

Thank you, Tushar. Good evening, everyone, and thank you for your joining us today for our Q1 FY '22 earnings call. Earlier during the day, we have released our financial results and investor presentation, and the same are also posted on our website. Hope you had a chance to look at it. To discuss the business performance and outlook going forward, we have on this call, the senior management team of Alkem. Before I proceed with this call, I would like to remind everyone that this call is being recorded and the call transcript will be made available on our website as well. I would also like to add that today's discussion may include forward-looking statements and the same must be viewed in conjunction with the risks that our business faces. After the end of this call, if any of your queries remain unanswered, please feel free to get in touch with me. With this, I would like to hand over the call to Mr. Sandeep Singh to present the key highlights of the quarter gone by and strategy going forward. Over to you, sir.

Sandeep Singh

executive
#4

Thank you, Gagan. Good evening, everyone. So without further delay, I'll get into it. We have had a strong start to the financial year with total operating revenues growing by 37.1% year-on-year, EBITDA margin coming in at 21.7% and net profit after tax growing by about 11% to INR 468 crores. During the quarter, we also generated healthy cash flows, which has helped us further strengthen our balance sheet. And now we have a net cash position of INR 980 crores as on June 20, 2021. Talking about our India business, it registered a growth of 30 -- sorry, 65.3% year-on-year during the quarter, which was majorly driven by strong volume-led growth in acute therapy. Even adjusting for the low base of last year, the company delivered a robust growth over quarter 1 FY '20 base, which was more of a normal quarter for the company. Moving to international business. Our U.S. business reported a sequential growth of 11.2% year-on-year. Decline of -- and a decline of 9.3% in the quarter. During the quarter, we filed 2 ANDAs with the U.S. FDA and received 5 approvals. Apart from the U.S., the international markets delivered a strong year-on-year growth of 56.4%. Tracking our progress in the biosimilar segment, I'm happy to share with you that last month, we have received market authorization for 2 more products for India market. We will soon be launching these 2 products, taking the total of 3 product launches in India from Enzene platform. We have also signed a few important licensing and supply agreements in the biotech space worth INR 100 crores. They are based on milestones going forward with global pharmaceutical companies to monetize the product pipeline globally. In terms of regulatory status of our manufacturing facilities, St. Louis facility was inspected in June 2021. And post the inspection, we received 2 observations. We have already replied to the U.S. FDA with a corrective and preventive action plan to resolve these observations. Apart from St. Louis, all other 5 manufacturing facilities supplying to the U.S. markets have an EIR as on date. Our new manufacturing facility at Indore is awaiting pre-approval inspection by U.S. FDA. Also recently, we had a remote and virtual U.S. FDA inspection of a bioequivalent center at Taloja, which we successfully closed without any observation. With this, I would like to open the floor for Q&A. Thank you very much.

Operator

operator
#5

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Prakash Agarwal from Axis Capital.

Prakash Agarwal

analyst
#6

Congrats on good numbers. Just on the sales growth outlook, especially for India business, given that it's a very high growth, how do you see the rest of the year panning out for you?

Rajesh Dubey

executive
#7

So Yogesh, you can go ahead.

Yogesh Kaushal

executive
#8

The first 2 months certainly were supported by COVID and all that stuff. So it was a very healthy growth. But now -- yes. So with now industry settling to around 11% to 12%, we expect that balance 9 months and by end of the year, we should be in high teens. This is what is our projection by March.

Prakash Agarwal

analyst
#9

Okay. You mentioned COVID there so, I mean, apart from vitamins, which is indirect COVID use, did you have any other COVID products?

Yogesh Kaushal

executive
#10

No, no. No. We don't have anything antiviral or anything to do with the COVID, except for multivitamins, A to Z, yes.

Prakash Agarwal

analyst
#11

So it's all COVID portfolio, right?

Yogesh Kaushal

executive
#12

It's all COVID portfolio.

Prakash Agarwal

analyst
#13

Okay. And 2 quick ones for Mr. Rajesh Dubey. On the -- one is on the gross margins. It seemed a little low despite a strong growth. Are there any one offs, if you can explain that? And secondly, on the free cash flow and net cash flow for the quarter.

Rajesh Dubey

executive
#14

So Prakash, I will take your first question, that is gross margin, yes, the gross margin in this quarter. It is, I mean, one-off. And that one-off is -- we have extended our provision related to near expiry. If you recollect in Q4 of last year, we revised our policy for taking provision for near expiry from 6 months to 12 months. And that was 1 quarter where we took a sizable near-expiry provision. When we are taking provision, we conclude or we estimate we'll not be able to sell this product at normal price. And -- but possibilities are there, it will get realized also. But right now, we expect we are not going to do that. So some of the inventories, if it's all due as our policy within 12 months sales-like period, and that also is considered. So I think definitely, we see this as a one-off because going forward, then, again, it will come in our normal cycle of 12 months. So this time, actually, NRV provision and the year expiry, if we put more this together, so definitely, it is going -- it is impacting our margin by 1.5%. And -- yes. I think that is the major reason behind it.

Prakash Agarwal

analyst
#15

And free cash flow and cash flow from operations?

Rajesh Dubey

executive
#16

Yes. So we have free cash flow of INR 981 crore as of 30th of June. In this quarter, we generated more than INR 450 crores free cash just on the year-end. If you want some guidelines, we'll be crossing INR 1,000 crores.

Prakash Agarwal

analyst
#17

So INR 450 crores is after all the CapEx and working capital, INR 450 crores?

Rajesh Dubey

executive
#18

Yes, yes.

Operator

operator
#19

The next question is from the line of Nithya Balasubramanian from Bernstein Research.

Nithya Balasubramanian

analyst
#20

So in India, I presume other than the VMS portfolio, your anti-infectives portfolio, azithromycin and doxycycline, et cetera, would also have seen a benefit because of Wave 2, is it possible to strip out the growth from those kind of products and tell us what's the true underlying growth of your base portfolio ex-COVID?

Rajesh Dubey

executive
#21

Other than -- COVID, in fact, didn't really impacted our core portfolio. So other than multivitamin and all, yes, there was, in fact, an impact on anti-infectives, but the anti-infective also grew because this time, the lockdown was not for patient and doctors. The patient flow was almost normal. So that's the reason. Because of base effect also, we got a high-growth and because of patient flow also we got a good growth. So of course, in the coming quarter, we should be coming back to, as I said, in a normal growth trajectory, we projected around the high teens in all.

Nithya Balasubramanian

analyst
#22

Got it. In terms of your critical care portfolio, how is the recovery between like in that part of the portfolio?

Rajesh Dubey

executive
#23

We -- as far as -- if you're asking me, portfolio, which is for critical disease management, then we are mainly into hospitals, okay? And which are injectables. So our critical care portfolio is largely major antibiotics like meropenem and all. Other than that, we don't have any cardiovascular portfolio, which is used in critical care management. So as hospitals are opening up, COVID, there were very high uses of high-end antibacterials. So there were some traction we have seen in injectables. But in the coming time, as elective surgeries opens up we XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX a similar trend.

Nithya Balasubramanian

analyst
#24

Understood. And one on U.S., I think a couple of calls earlier, you had guided for about 15% to 16% growth for the next 2, 3 years, driven largely by new launches. But we are seeing the growth kind of cooling off a little bit, though Q-o-Q still looks healthy. Anything -- do you still stick to that guidance? Any color on why the Y-o-Y growth wasn't as you would have expected?

Rajesh Dubey

executive
#25

Yes. Mr. Ghare, can you please take that?

Amit Ghare

executive
#26

Sure. Yes, I agree with you, the broad guidance still remains broadly what we had given. And year-on-year quarter growth, of course, there has been a degrowth. A couple of reasons obviously affected. One was, obviously, we had a lot of -- a strong quarter last year, mainly because of some of forward buying done by our customers, a bit of stockpiling and panic buying as well affected that. The reason -- so that's one of the reasons. The other reason has been some loss of market share and, obviously, price deflation, which has sort of depressed this particular quarter compared to 12 months ago. But our broad guidance remains similar, and we are looking to grow at those numbers.

Operator

operator
#27

The next question is from the line of Abdulkader Puranwala from Anand Rathi.

Abdulkader Puranwala

analyst
#28

Congratulations on a good set of numbers. So would it be possible for you to provide some color on how the growth in India would be within acute and chronic and the trade generic segments?

Rajesh Dubey

executive
#29

I think broadly, we kind of not give therapy breakup, but I can tell you that acute grew -- outperformed growth overall in spite of a high base. And chronic and trade generic both grew like very substantial, above 50%, both of them.

Abdulkader Puranwala

analyst
#30

Understood, sir. And my second question is on the U.S. business. So recently, we got an approval for a dual test. So any color on that? I understand the product size is not very huge, but since you own exclusivity and you are maintaining your guidance, would you -- [indiscernible] a similar [ SBU ] of opportunity play an important role in maintaining our guidance for the U.S. business?

Rajesh Dubey

executive
#31

I think I will let Mr. Ghare come on that. So Mr. Ghare, over to you.

Amit Ghare

executive
#32

Thank you, sir. Yes, we have launched generic Duexis famotidine and ibuprofen. And obviously, we will look at acquiring as much market share as we can. Please remember, this launch is at risk, we are still mitigating in the upper circle. But beyond that, I would not like to comment anything further at this time.

Operator

operator
#33

The next question is from the line of Nimish Mehta from Research Delta Advisors.

Nimish Mehta

analyst
#34

My question is, again, related to the U.S. market. Can you tell us, we have -- we are likely to launch this product Pradaxa, which is Dabigatran at the end of this calendar. So if you can let us know as to whether we will be having 180-day exclusivity on that? Or -- and will it be a meaningful product for us?

Rajesh Dubey

executive
#35

Mr. Ghare, please.

Amit Ghare

executive
#36

Yes, we will launch this product. I'm not sure that it will launch in December or it has been pushed back by 6 months because of pediatric exclusivity. So I don't want to comment. But certainly, we'll be the first to launch the product in the market. We will have a 180-day exclusivity. The first launch and the 180-day exclusivity will be shared amongst all the first filers. And in terms of whether the product will be significant for us or not, I would not like to give any specific guidance on any particular product in any case launch is a few months away. But we will obviously try our best to get commensurate market share.

Nimish Mehta

analyst
#37

Understood. And given that we have had 2 high-value launches that is generics mesalamine and the [indiscernible] that we just mentioned, which I would assume that it is very high margin, given the recommendation. Would you not think that the lower gross margin guidance that we had given last quarter needs to be revised upfront? Any thoughts on at that will be helpful.

Sandeep Singh

executive
#38

Yes so...

Amit Ghare

executive
#39

Sandeep, go ahead. Go ahead, sir.

Sandeep Singh

executive
#40

I mean, the question is for you, rightly. Both products are for U.S. So go ahead, sir.

Amit Ghare

executive
#41

Okay. Sorry for that, Sandeep. Look, the overall guidance given by CFO, obviously, he will explain. But generally, the new product always comes with a better margin profile. And when we look at our overall product mix, we obviously factor that. So certainly, the new products will come at a higher margin. I guess that's all that I can answer on this question.

Nimish Mehta

analyst
#42

Yes. So yes, if CFO can tell me about the lower gross margin, will that be maintained or we think it will improve [indiscernible]?

Rajesh Dubey

executive
#43

Yes. I think our guidelines is not on lower side. Our guidelines, it was 60% to 61%. Of course, we are not factoring product to product, it's a basket gross margin guideline. There are so many factors, which affects margin and particularly gross margin. But we strongly believe what gross margin we have given, we are going to work towards that. In this situation, even this gross margin, we might feel a little bit pressure kind of situation because of API prices increasing. But all [ blames ] put together, we feel we'll be there what guidelines we have given of 60% to 61%. Is this okay?

Nimish Mehta

analyst
#44

Yes. This helps. And yes, obviously, if you can also comment on EBITDA margin, that will be even more helpful.

Rajesh Dubey

executive
#45

EBITDA margin, our guidelines, it was from 19% to 20% for this year because our endeavor was to improve by 100 basis points after a year. So we remain with our guideline, looking to better quarter 1, we believe 50 to 100 basis points, we'll try to improve on that.

Nimish Mehta

analyst
#46

How much, sorry? How much will you try to improve? I'm sorry.

Rajesh Dubey

executive
#47

50 to 100 basis points, we'll try to improve.

Nimish Mehta

analyst
#48

50 to 100, okay, understood.

Rajesh Dubey

executive
#49

Just to clarify, last year's guidance was 19 -- I mean, last call, we guided for 19.5% to 20%. So this 50 basis point improvement is over the guidance and not be...

Operator

operator
#50

The next question is from the line of Neha Manpuria from JPMorgan.

Neha Manpuria

analyst
#51

First on the trade generic business. How has this business momentum been over the last 2 quarters? We did see some pickup during the pandemic. Has that -- has the growth rate for the business rose? And related question, we are seeing more players enter the trade generic segment. Does that make it difficult for us to continue to grow this business at double digits that we've been seeing over the last few years?

Sandeep Singh

executive
#52

Yes. Yes, I'll take this question. So there's no -- so to answer you, trade generic continues to do at a very healthy pace, and the growth is not slowing down. And this question specifically of large presenting trade generics, I think it was expected because this is kind of growing very, very handsomely for the last few quarters. But you said, can -- will this double-digit growth continue? The answer is emphatically yes. Because keep in mind, we don't only grow in double digits, we grow in very high double digits. So achieving double digits and maintaining that over the next few years, we don't see it as a challenge at all.

Neha Manpuria

analyst
#53

And what will drive this growth, Sandeep, despite the competition in your view?

Sandeep Singh

executive
#54

Sorry?

Neha Manpuria

analyst
#55

What will drive this double-digit growth, the strong double-digit growth that we are guiding to despite the competition that you will see?

Sandeep Singh

executive
#56

Sure, sure. So I think a lot of people underestimate trade generics business, and that's also a franchisee and a brand business actually. It might seem like an oxymoron, but it's not. So the relationship which we enjoy with the trade generic -- trade channel is something which can't be replicated overnight. It takes many, many years. We have reached -- where we have reached in 20 years, didn't happen overnight. So all the best people will have come in, but they will also take the time, ma'am, and we got to kind of appreciate that. This is a tough business, actually.

Neha Manpuria

analyst
#57

Understood, understood. And in your opening remarks, Sandeep, you mentioned licensing -- [ you have some ] licensing deals worth INR 100 crores with global pharma. If you could give some color on that, I didn't really catch the context of that thing?

Sandeep Singh

executive
#58

I'll tell you that, yes. So Enzene Biotech subsidiary has out-licensed this. One of them is a mAB. It's with a European company. And that in -- out-licensing value is $10 million based on milestone and up to launch. And they have also out-licensed 1 recombinant peptide to a company in South Korea. That's around worth $2.5 million. So therefore, both of them put together, I said that it's close to INR 100 crores. And that's again based on milestones. But I think we have begin out-licensing. And I personally see a bright future for biosimilars as we go forward.

Operator

operator
#59

The next question is from the line of Harith Ahamed from Spark Capital Advisors.

Harith Mohammed

analyst
#60

On biosimilars, will you be able to share what percentage of our R&D status today is for biosimilars? And on the licensing of the mAB products that you have done to a European partner, what stage of development is that product? And could you give some time lines around the development and launch for this product?

Sandeep Singh

executive
#61

Sorry. So I got your first question. Second question, maybe I'll ask you to repeat, but I'll quickly answer you. So we spend close to 12% to 14% of our R&D on biotech historically. What is your second question, sir?

Harith Mohammed

analyst
#62

So this product that you've licensed to Theramex, what stage of development is that product? Is it in clinical trials already? Or [indiscernible]...

Sandeep Singh

executive
#63

In India, we have got approval. So in India, it's going to be launched. But yes, this is for Europe and some other countries. So that -- we are going to enter clinical stage very soon for Europe. Phase I will initiate in a couple of months, so early stage.

Harith Mohammed

analyst
#64

And then the market -- and the market formulation or patent expiries for this product will be -- what timelines?

Sandeep Singh

executive
#65

I mean, if you launch it, that's still like 4 years away, 4 to 5 years away. Yes, yes.

Harith Mohammed

analyst
#66

Okay. And my second question is on the PCPM for domestic business. How much lower is the PCPM for the chronic segment in our domestic business? And do you expect this to catch up with the acute segment PCPM for us?

Sandeep Singh

executive
#67

Yogesh, you can take that.

Yogesh Kaushal

executive
#68

So we have some very evolved business and then we have evolving business. So for the evolved business, we have a productivity range of around INR 8 lakhs to INR 10 lakhs. And from the evolving business, we have a productivity range is around INR 3.5 lakhs to INR 4 lakhs. And the new businesses, our productivity ranges between INR 1.5 lakhs to INR 2 lakhs. Have I answered you?

Harith Mohammed

analyst
#69

Okay. Yes, got it. And then the evolved business, can you talk -- you're probably referring to our neuropsychiatry segment and...

Yogesh Kaushal

executive
#70

No. Anti-infective side. Yes. Anti-infective.

Harith Mohammed

analyst
#71

Okay, okay. Okay. And then within chronic segment, the chronic therapies, would the PCPM be significantly lower versus the company-level PCPM?

Yogesh Kaushal

executive
#72

Yes. Since we are almost 80%, 85% antibiotics, anti-infectives, so where our PCPM is in the range of around INR 8 lakhs to INR 10 lakhs and chronic is evolving, where we are in the range of around INR 3.5 lakhs to INR 4 lakhs.

Operator

operator
#73

The next question is from the line of Kunal Randeria from Edelweiss.

Kunal Randeria

analyst
#74

So my first question is on the vitamins portfolio. So it's -- this business is growing at a very fast clip, and I think actually growing double -- almost 2x the market. Now we're #2 in India. I'm just wondering what the sustainability of this business from here on?

Sandeep Singh

executive
#75

So see, COVID certainly has an extraordinary surge on such multivitamins, and particularly those which are zinc-based preparations. So this 3-month traction, certainly, you can't see a regular time, but they are our core products. They are our focused products. So they will sustain. They will out beat the industry group, that is for sure, but certainly not the COVID surge. So these are our core focus products, and we should outperform the market growth.

Kunal Randeria

analyst
#76

Right. I mean, sir, would it be fair to assume that maybe a quarter or 2 down the line, there could be some pressure on this portfolio as the core for high base?

Sandeep Singh

executive
#77

No. Yes, yes, you can expect. In the first quarter next year, you can expect some pressure on these portfolios.

Kunal Randeria

analyst
#78

Sure, sure. And my second question is on [indiscernible] product that you launched in this quarter. So would it be fair to assume that you're working on other mesalamine products also? And are there any sort of launch time line that you would like to share with us?

Sandeep Singh

executive
#79

Yes. So honestly, we don't like to talk about our pipeline. So any assumptions, I think, would not be correct. And I also would like to add that these mesalamine formulations, we all know are pretty tough. So even if we are working on it, I don't think so, we'll be in any position to tell you when -- or where, if at all it happens. So nothing right there, we want to comment.

Kunal Randeria

analyst
#80

Sure, sure. And just one more question, if I can. Can you share how the API prices are behaving now, whether it's going up or it's stabilized now? And what -- how is it impacting gross margins?

Sandeep Singh

executive
#81

Mr. Dubey, please.

Rajesh Dubey

executive
#82

Yes. API prices, it has started going up from margin. And till mid of May, actually, we witnessed a major spurt in selected API prices. But after that, it started softening, and it has not come back to normalcy. But I think the major it has come within range. And slowly, we expect it is going to be normalized. So now trend is not upward. Either it is softening or stable kind of.

Kunal Randeria

analyst
#83

So sir, is it yet to impact our numbers or has it already impacted in this quarter?

Rajesh Dubey

executive
#84

In this quarter, some little bit impact, it has come. But since -- as I said, prices started showing upward trend from April and May. So we procure material, then formulation has happened. And now once sale is going to happen, then it will lead to our financials. So June sale, to a certain extent and very normal or very minimal kind of impact it has done. But in quarter 2, we'll be having rest of the impact of API price increase. But I think, yes, it has impacted, but it is manageable, and we are comfortable on gross margin, what guidelines we have provided.

Operator

operator
#85

The next question is from the line of Sriraam Rathi from ICICI Securities.

Sriraam Rathi

analyst
#86

So just one question from my side. The staff cost looks very high this quarter. So I mean, was there any one-off in the quarter? And are there any specific increase that has happened?

Sandeep Singh

executive
#87

Staff cost is a little bit up. So staff cost, we have a few one-offs in this quarter. One is, in fact, it's on account of gratuity and leave encashment liability provisioning. And this has happened because we revised basic of our employees. Traditionally, it was 37% of the CTC, but new wage bill is expected. So we decided to true-up to a certain extent. So from 37%, we increased to 42%. So that one-off which has come in this quarter. And that is not going to remain going forward. Second, staff cost, it looks on a high side because we had a very good quarter on our revenue. So we paid the incentive. If you are comparing with last year's quarter, it was definitely incentive percentage-wise and achievement-wise also, it was very much compromised this quarter, since we had surplus. So incentive percentage it has increased as well as quantum also it has increased. So putting this 2 together, it gives an answer -- major answer to your question of increased employee cost.

Sriraam Rathi

analyst
#88

Okay. So going forward, how should we look at this figure like? Earlier, we were around INR 400 crores kind of figure. So will it be like INR 450 crores or INR 500 crores? Really, what should be the range?

Sandeep Singh

executive
#89

Definitely, it will be optimized by, say, another INR 40 crores, INR 45 crores, what we have now. So if I take out, suppose, INR 50 crores out of this, then it will be somewhere in the range of INR 480 crores, INR 475 crores.

Sriraam Rathi

analyst
#90

Okay. Got it. And other expenses would be normal, right, now, if this quarter also like is a normal run rate?

Sandeep Singh

executive
#91

Other expenses, it looks normal. But let me just tell you, still our marketing expenses, it is normalized to the tune of 80%, 85% only. So we should expect 10% to 15% with our marketing expenses, I mean to say. Other expense includes the rebate. So out of that marketing expense, as far as still 85% normalization has happened, we can expect another 5% to 10% going forward.

Operator

operator
#92

The next question is from the line of Saion Mukherjee from Nomura Capital.

Saion Mukherjee

analyst
#93

Sorry, can you hear me?

Gagan Borana

executive
#94

Yes. We can.

Saion Mukherjee

analyst
#95

Just this -- you mentioned about employee cost, there is some adjustment on [indiscernible] inventory. Is it possible to quantify how much are these 2 elements in this [ quarter ]?

Rajesh Dubey

executive
#96

Yes, yes, employee cost, Saion, I'm sure you must have -- I was able to explain why it has -- we are having onetime cost of that. We increased basic from 37% to 42%, resulting into increase in gratuity liability and the encashment liability. So it is not cash payout. It is provision. And if I put both this together around, INR 28 crores, INR 29 crores additional provision we had to pay.

Saion Mukherjee

analyst
#97

Okay. And on the inventory provision that you took this quarter, sir, on...

Rajesh Dubey

executive
#98

Inventory provision and additional NRV provision because the NRV it goes along with your sales. So if I put both this together around INR 35 crores to INR 40 crores, in fact, INR 38 crores, it was additional, which we can term as one of kind.

Saion Mukherjee

analyst
#99

Okay, okay. And Sandeep, on the biosimilars front, there seems to be some progress made. So what is the kind of investments we have made so far? You mentioned almost 12% to 15% of R&D goes in there. So what kind of annual expenses we incur? And I mean if you can talk about the capabilities that you've put in place, the people that you have got, the team that you've put in place, just to give us a sense like what makes you feel good about the business in terms of you being able to execute your strategy here?

Sandeep Singh

executive
#100

Sure. No, thank you, Saion. So totally, we have invested INR 650 crores in biotech. This includes R&D and CapEx and total expenditures so far. Roughly, we spent close to 100 cr on biotech, including now manufacturing and everything. That's it, all expenditure in biotech. Your question on what is the capability to kind of -- for the front end. So mainly biotech are for, let's say, some indications of onco and some of them also in bone health and osteo segment. So I think on the onco segment, yes, we have some role to -- I mean some catch-up to do there. But on the bone health side, I think we are very strong. We have good connect with orthopedics, and so we'll do well there. But keep in mind that this is a business which is meant to be not just for Alkem. So we have out-licensed some drugs to Lupin. We have out-licensed to Zydus. And even globally, we are out-licensing. So we should not rely only on our strength to do justice with biotech. So just keep that in mind, timely -- they will tie up with the best irrespective of whether it's Alkem or not. We get the best partners, and we will be executing this. In India, Alkem is a strong partner, so Alkem is the right choice. But globally, we'll go with people who can do justice with it.

Saion Mukherjee

analyst
#101

Actually, Sandeep, I was also looking at the product development capital capabilities, R&D, if you can give some color on that.

Sandeep Singh

executive
#102

So honestly, Saion, I don't know, I mean, how much color I can give on that because, honestly, only with time, it will tell how good or bad it is. But what I can tell you why I think I'm confident about it is people have done extensive due diligence. And only after that, we can out-license things. So we have gone through those rounds. I hear good things about them from our partners. And they are putting the money where their mouth is. So we have out-licensing deal already in a very early stage of a company. Second thing, the employees who work on this -- in this business in Enzene biotech, a lot of the senior management has come from U.S., they have worked in companies like Amgen and BMS and all. So I think I've got -- I mean, we've got great people there. But yes, but few things, only time will tell, Saion. I can -- as an entrepreneur, I'm always positive, but that's my job. But I think you all be cautious and just watch us, exactly how our answer is, honestly.

Saion Mukherjee

analyst
#103

Okay. And do you plan to kind of list this separately? Or do some funding here?

Sandeep Singh

executive
#104

Yes. I think they're discussing, Saion, that's an interesting -- very interesting topic idea. We do mull over it, but we also kind of are in a situation where we think if we kind of raise our list so early, we might lose a lot on valuation because we are at very early stage. But I do think that biosimilar or biotech is a huge opportunity. It might need a lot of capital as we get ambitious in the next few years. So those options are certainly on the table, Saion, I must say that.

Saion Mukherjee

analyst
#105

Okay. Okay. And just one clarification, Sandeep. This INR 100 crores you said, over what period you have invested?

Sandeep Singh

executive
#106

Yes. So this is based on milestones, and some of it would be on like back ended, what I mean is on completion of Phase I, Phase III and on launch. So some of them are back -- a large part of it is back-ended, but they would -- I think would -- say it's up to launch, Saion. So you could assume in the next 4 years.

Saion Mukherjee

analyst
#107

Okay. No, Sandeep, actually, I was mentioning about -- you mentioned INR 650 crores of CapEx. And then you mentioned something about INR 100 crores additional...

Sandeep Singh

executive
#108

CapEx, OpEx, both, Saion, INR 650 crores. That's the total investments we have made there, yes, not just CapEx. Yes.

Operator

operator
#109

The next question is from the line of Damayanti Kerai from HSBC Securities and Capital Markets Limited.

Damayanti Kerai

analyst
#110

Sir, my question is coming back to operating costs. A few clarifications. So on the API prices increase, you said after May, it's now cooling down and you haven't seen anything incremental in recent months, right? Can you clarify, like any observation on the API price in recent weeks?

Rajesh Dubey

executive
#111

Yes, the Damayanti, you're right. I'm presenting [indiscernible] API prices, mainly in the month of [indiscernible] so something up to mid of May and this can come back to the normalcy to a certain extent closer to earlier one. So...

Damayanti Kerai

analyst
#112

Okay, okay. Okay. And then coming to marketing costs. In India, you said we are now at 80%, 85%. And then as business picks up, we will see further change there. That's on marketing cost, right?

Rajesh Dubey

executive
#113

True. Actually, in fact, I just wanted to [indiscernible] our marketing activities, it has not come to normalcy, when I see cost of -- my marketing cost. So we strongly believe still cost -- on cost front, we can have additional costs to the tune of 5% to 7% or 10% going forward once it becomes normal. And I think Mr. Yogesh Kaushal is also here, and he will be in better position to give you exact feel on marketing activities how much it got normalized.

Yogesh Kaushal

executive
#114

If I go back to what our CFO said, initial first quarter because of May lockdown, there were certain questions on marketing. But in the second and third quarter, we see the marketing cost opening up. So we should come back to our usual marketing investment in the second quarter onwards.

Damayanti Kerai

analyst
#115

Okay. Sir, that's helpful. And just, sir, a final comment on your observation on recent cost on the freight and logistics side because some of your competitors have mentioned a certain increase in there. So what are your observation on this freight and logistic part?

Sandeep Singh

executive
#116

Yes. Actually, we witnessed higher freight and distribution cost, which is mainly logistic costs. And if I have to bifurcate between domestic and international, domestic, obviously, it has to be on higher side because of our enhanced sale. So that pretty high. Even for our international logistic, actually, it is -- it has increased. So that also resulted in higher selling and distribution cost in this quarter. And that increase in rate is significantly high. So it was a substantial amount which has gone in our P&L of this quarter.

Damayanti Kerai

analyst
#117

Okay. Sir, that was for 1Q. What are our recent observation? Like what update on this logistic cost? Has it cooled down a bit? Or it's at similar level compared to last?

Sandeep Singh

executive
#118

[indiscernible], but not substantial. Still normalization has to happen. If I'm [indiscernible] overseas logistic cost. For domestic, I think it's -- it will go in proportion to your revenue. So when I see on absolute amount term, it indicates higher debit it has gone. But it is in the ratio of our revenue. So domestic, I don't think any abnormality it has happened. But for international rate, it has gone up. It has come down a little bit, but not very significant. So still we are waiting for normalization.

Damayanti Kerai

analyst
#119

That's helpful. And sir, my final question is on your general observation on the pricing erosion environment in the U.S. So can you please comment on that?

Sandeep Singh

executive
#120

Mr. Ghare, please?

Amit Ghare

executive
#121

The pricing deflation has [indiscernible] and it has been strong in the past 15 months since the beginning of COVID. Obviously, the products which are launched, the newer products undergo higher deflation. I think overall, on our portfolio basis, our deflation was still in single digits, but on the higher side, higher single digit numbers.

Damayanti Kerai

analyst
#122

Okay. So we are still in single digit. And are we seeing any, I'll say, intensifying pressure in last few months? Or it's broadly in that single-digit range for us?

Amit Ghare

executive
#123

Well, let me just say that the pressure has been there since the [indiscernible] months. And not that it wasn't there before, but that increase that I talked about from the 3%, 4% level to 8%, 9% level, has been there for last 12 months. So it hasn't increased, but unfortunately, it hasn't decreased as well.

Operator

operator
#124

The next question is from the line of Yash T from ithough PMS.

Yash Tanna

analyst
#125

Congratulations on a good set of numbers. So I have 2 questions. The first one is, so on a medium-term basis, let's say, like 5 or 6 years down the line, can we double down on our current revenues, like which is around INR 8,800 crores right now. So can we go around INR 17,500 crores to INR 18,000 crores organically? So I don't want any very specific number, but as a long-term shareholder, if you could just give some broad guidance, is that growth still achievable? And if yes, like what would be the drivers for this growth?

Sandeep Singh

executive
#126

Yes. If you're talking about doubling in 6 years, I think my math is not very good, but that's maybe 12% to 13%. And that's the case, we would. We normally don't like to give forward numbers.

Yash Tanna

analyst
#127

Just like some broad guidance. I mean what would be the drivers for that growth? If you could just...

Sandeep Singh

executive
#128

Yes, the drivers for this -- I mean those Alkem would be obviously domestic business, which is a large part of our business. Chronic business, please don't forget, we have hardly scratched the surface. U.S. business, we are still in -- not very large. We are still in oral molecules, oral solids. There we could come into really complex generics and biosimilars 4 or 5 years down the line. So that would help. I mean, 6 years, doubling is not massive. So that's okay.

Yash Tanna

analyst
#129

Sure, sir. And my second question is, so what is the durable competitive edge that -- which has led to consistent market share growth for Alkem across all therapies over years? And are we taking any new initiatives now to maintain or enhance this competitive edge that we have over the years?

Sandeep Singh

executive
#130

That's a comprehensive question. I think our competitive edge is luck, but I'm just joking, sorry. I think we got huge brands. We are a very entrepreneurial company where everyone is a quick decision maker. We have a culture. I think culture differentiates you. So that's a very kind of answer I'd like to give, but the management is very focused. The promoters tied to this. We have passionate entrepreneurs. We've got a good set of people. I think that's why I said it's a matter of luck. We've got great people. And we don't hesitate to invest. There was a time, if you remember, EBITDA margins were close to 14% in the IPO. That's because we were investing. So we take a long-term call on business, and we invest, and we wait and we do all the right things.

Operator

operator
#131

The next question is from the line of Bhaskar Bukrediwala from Arthya Investments.

Bhaskar Bukrediwala

analyst
#132

Couple of questions. One, on the margin profile from a medium-term perspective. Now as you can see that your chronic portfolio is shaping up quite well, so would structurally your margins range, which has been, let's say, between 21% over the 3-year period, likely to inch up because of the [ sale-based ] [indiscernible]?

Sandeep Singh

executive
#133

Yes I think it will inch up, but don't ask me how much. But it will certainly inch up, for sure.

Bhaskar Bukrediwala

analyst
#134

Any very broad directional guidance, would you like to give without giving very specific numbers?

Sandeep Singh

executive
#135

Directional guidance, always given 50 to 100 basis point. Every year, we'll try to inch up, hopefully. We maintain that stand firm.

Bhaskar Bukrediwala

analyst
#136

Okay, okay. Sure. Sure. And would your gross margin in the chronic portfolio be higher than your acute portfolio?

Sandeep Singh

executive
#137

Yes, yes. For sure.

Operator

operator
#138

The next question is from the line of Prakash Agarwal from Axis Capital.

Prakash Agarwal

analyst
#139

Just on the MR, so in the last 2, 3 years, we had an addition of about 2,000 people. And so what is the current MR run rate and what is the current MR productivity and tying up with the margins? So if you are largely done with MR additions, with 10%, 12% growth, is there a possibility of -- like what the earlier participant also asked, 50 to 100 basis points? So that is a culmination of that?

Sandeep Singh

executive
#140

Yes. That's also one of the culminating factors, for sure, because the addition of MRs have more or less been done. But I think on specific numbers, Yogesh you could answer them.

Yogesh Kaushal

executive
#141

Yes, sure. As a group, we should be around 10,000 plus, around 11,000 people, 11,000 MRs. And yes, we -- other than the respiratory division, which we have launched, we are almost done with our addition of MRs. But nevertheless, we -- as our MD also said, Sandeep, that we are not close to any future opportunities. So as of now, we are not -- on a close run, we are not seeing any expansions, but we are open to opportunities.

Prakash Agarwal

analyst
#142

Okay. And MR productivity, where we are in the...

Yogesh Kaushal

executive
#143

Come again, sorry, I didn't get you.

Prakash Agarwal

analyst
#144

What is our run rate on MR productivity?

Yogesh Kaushal

executive
#145

Yes, I told you just some time back that our evolved business, we are in the range of around INR 8 lakhs to INR 10 lakhs. In the evolving, we are somewhere between INR 3.5 lakhs to INR 4 lakhs. And just a few -- couple of years long business, we are in a range of around INR 1.5 lakhs to INR 2 lakhs.

Prakash Agarwal

analyst
#146

So ballpark will be around 5...

Yogesh Kaushal

executive
#147

Around INR 5 lakh to INR 5.5 lakhs overall as an organization.

Prakash Agarwal

analyst
#148

Okay. And secondly, on use of cash, like now from an upcoming quarters and seeing in the last few quarters also, there is a very strong free cash flow generation that is happening. And I think in the last call, there was a mention that we are evaluating M&A after a long time, we said that. So are we looking at aggressively anything on the table? And what is the current thought on this?

Sandeep Singh

executive
#149

So, Prakash. So I think, yes, I think accumulation of cash will happen, and that's a good thing. I don't recollect whether we said we are open to M&A acquisitions, unless I have amnesia, I'm not sure. But -- so -- but I don't think so. So I think as we go forward, Prakash, I understand that cash accumulation will happen in the next few years. I think once we cross, let's say, some numbers, and it becomes a problem, we could discuss that time. But so we are not changing anything right now, Prakash, in terms of our dividend policy or anything or anything like that, Prakash.

Prakash Agarwal

analyst
#150

Okay. So you're saying you're not too keen on M&A. Is that what you...

Sandeep Singh

executive
#151

We're not too keen on M&A, Prakash.

Prakash Agarwal

analyst
#152

Okay. So natural and organic build-out is what you prefer working?

Sandeep Singh

executive
#153

Yes, yes.

Prakash Agarwal

analyst
#154

Okay. Great. And lastly, on tax rates. So we have seen 1 domestic company raising tax rate guidance. How do we feel like, given our plans, which are still in Sikkim, all these. So how long we have these tax breaks? And how long we could be under 14%, 15% kind of tax rates?

Rajesh Dubey

executive
#155

Prakash, for this year, our guidelines is 13% to 15% of tax rate. I think that is going to remain. For next year, definitely, it is going to add up by another 100 basis points. So next year, you can take 14% to 16% kind of. And if I understand your question correctly, you asked me how long we are going to have Sikkim benefit?

Prakash Agarwal

analyst
#156

Yes, sir.

Rajesh Dubey

executive
#157

So as you know, Sikkim benefit ends in '26, '27, so...

Prakash Agarwal

analyst
#158

'26, '27?

Rajesh Dubey

executive
#159

'26, '27. But have in your mind, we have a facility in SEZ also. So that also is having tax advantage. And they were back [indiscernible]. Yes. So this is even though for 5 years, it is 100%. But next 10 years, 50% advantage is there also. But yes, as Managing Director he said, we have used [indiscernible] rate. Even though our tax rate it is going above [indiscernible] rate, but our cash flow on account of taxation, it is -- it will be under control. But yes, definitely, debit will start coming to P&L. Cash outflow, it will not be there up -- beyond 21%. Are you clear or you want anything specific?

Prakash Agarwal

analyst
#160

No, no, this is very elaborate.

Operator

operator
#161

The next question is from the line of Nitin Agarwal from DAM Capital.

Nitin Agarwal

analyst
#162

Sir, on the other expenses, this has been obviously one very volatile and unpredictable element for the last 4 or 5 quarters. I mean, in the past, it has been in early 20s, mid-20s as a percentage of sales for us. I think in the conversion that you've had over the quarter, what -- if I understand right, we've been suggesting that there is not much structural change which has happened in this cost item. So is it fair to expect that at some point in time, we start going back to early 20s percentage of sales for the other expenses? Or there are some changes which have happened in the overall business, which sort of make us -- will be optimized significantly on that?

Rajesh Dubey

executive
#163

There are so many factors, if you are referring other expenses. Other expenses is the combination of so many expenditures. It's a marketing expense, it's a manufacturing expense and corporate overhead. And whatever is not covered under employee cost and [ few years ], mainly it is coming under other expenses. So it is very difficult to give exact prediction. But generally, our other expense is in the range of 20%, 18% to 20%. But definitely, our operating leverage is one important component in that. So just now, we discussed, for example, employee-related costs. When we have productivity improves, definitely, our revenue is going to go up, whereas cost is not going to work that in that proportion. So that advantage is there. Same thing applies in other expenses also. If I have to take our manufacturing cost in consideration, marketing also similar thing applies. But I think our other expenses, broadly, it is in the range of 18% to 20% when it gets normalized.

Sandeep Singh

executive
#164

Between the quarter, we have some seasonality. So if you double check across the quarters, there would be this variation of 18%, 22% because there is seasonality part also in our portfolio.

Operator

operator
#165

The next question is from the line of Nithya Balasubramanian from Bernstein.

Nithya Balasubramanian

analyst
#166

Just one question on your chronic therapy strategy. So one read through, if you look at commentary across companies is everybody wants to grow on chronic therapy. And the market leaders in chronic therapy, obviously, is one to keep the market share and keep the leadership. So as the company is now building presence, how is your strategy differentiated? Is it in terms of prescribers? Or geography focus? Portfolio focus? What is it that Alkem brings to the table in such a highly competitive and a highly concentrated market?

Sandeep Singh

executive
#167

In a generic branded business, very difficult to say that you can build a differentiation. But yes, our focus is very clear. We are known for building large brands. So this is -- this legacy we carry, and that's how we are looking at our chronic portfolio also. We are looking at brand size of INR 100 crores, INR 200 crores price in the current time. And we have already chosen some of the key therapies like cardiology and dermatology, which constitute around 52% of chronic. So where there will be industry heavy and will look at building productivity and future expansions also. At the same time, we are reasonably good at CNS. So we will continue to consolidate. And some of the business like urology and all, we will have a reasonable expectation, not very high. So this is how we are working on our various portfolios and various therapies. In terms of customer, yes, this is where we will be working a little aggressive because we have a -- we don't have such a large prescriber base. So our endeavor would be see that we expand our prescriber base across therapies.

Nithya Balasubramanian

analyst
#168

[indiscernible] because of your leadership in anti-infective category. Would it be easier for you to bring the therapy down to the primary care level and the leverage your leadership rather than trying to establish yourself as a specialist?

Sandeep Singh

executive
#169

It will always remain. You have to make a choice between 2, whether you want to go through a primary physician or you want to go through a specialist. I think we have chosen to go through a specialist route, and we will continue to sustain that.

Rajesh Dubey

executive
#170

Yes, it's a tougher journey, but a more sustainable one once we arrive there.

Operator

operator
#171

As there are no further questions in queue, I now hand the conference over to the management for their closing comments.

Gagan Borana

executive
#172

Thank you, everyone, for attending this call. If any of your queries remain unanswered, please feel free to get in touch with me. Thank you.

Operator

operator
#173

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Motilal Oswal Financial Services Limited, that concludes this conference call for today. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.

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