Alma Media Oyj (ALMA.HE) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to this Interim Report Session of Alma Media's Third Quarter 2025. My name is Elina Kukkonen, and I'm responsible of the Communications and Brand of Alma. We will begin with the presentation shortly, and we proceed as usual. Our CEO, Mr. Telanne will be first to go on stage, and he will present the overall result of Alma Media and highlight the performance of each of our business segments, Alma Career, Alma Marketplaces and Alma News Media, After Mr. Telanne, our CFO, Mrs. Taru Lehtinen, she will present the financial position of Alma Media today. And then Mr. Telanne continues about the operating environment, the strategy going forward and our outlook. And then we close the session with the Q&A, and we first take the questions here at Alma Premises in Helsinki, and then we answer your questions coming from online. Our Director for Investor Relations, Mr. Teemu Salmi, will moderate the online questions. So once again, warmly welcome to this session to join us today and follow us, And please, Mr. Telanne, the stage is yours.

Thank you, Elina. You are all warmly welcome to the third quarter result presentation. I will start with the main achievements and the numbers as usually. And then later at the end of the presentation, a few words about the strategy and some of the initiatives that we have made. As we all know, the market conditions, underlying markets all over the Europe, they have remained as is more or less quite soft market. But despite this, we had quite a solid performance in every segment. Operating profit improved, especially on the Marketplaces and also on the News Media sector. Revenue grew more than 5%, of which about half came from organic growth and the second half from add-on acquisitions, mainly on the Marketplaces side. The profitability of third quarter is actually an all-time high one quarter EBIT result. We are closing the long-term target, 30% profitability target, which is, of course, a good sign of the cost control of the company also. The transformation from print to digital is proceeding as expected and according to the plan. The share of digital business on a record high level, almost 88%. With the good results and our balance sheet is getting stronger and stronger, we have plenty of room quite soon for new investments. The leverage 1.5 and equity ratio close to 50%, which is, of course, good for us and for the new initiatives. As said, the biggest contributor to the revenue and profitability growth was Marketplaces, where we have had the investments during this year like Edilex, the latest EUR 4.1 million increase in revenues, split half and half with the organic growth and M&A. Adjusted operating on that segment, EUR 1.2 million up according to our plan. And on other businesses, quite solid performance on revenue-wise and profitability-wise. The most growth came from Digital Services, of course, because the M&A came to that sector, but the classified businesses are picking up and the underlying markets are picking up slowly. houses and premises, cars and recruitment as well. The ad market in Finland is on a low side still, reflecting the weak consumer confidence and the retail sector difficulties here. But the digital advertising and the digital content sales of us -- ours is growing nicely. So this was the overall picture. If we go deeper into the business segments, just to remind you, these 3 business segments that we are running the business, Alma Career, Alma Marketplaces, Alma News Media, the heads, the leaders of the businesses are available for you in this room if you have any questions to pose. These are the main numbers. We will go into details next. So I start from the Alma Career. We have some fluctuation between the quarters in revenues, and we have also differences in the countries, how the underlying markets are developing. The revenue on par with the last year. We have increased development cost on Career United project that are weighing the profitability. The invoicing in the Central Europe is growing around 1%, which is a good sign. The labor market in Finland is on a very low level at the moment, still around 12% down free jobs and the market is on a very low level. So they are -- light at the end of the tunnel, yes, but that needs to be seen how big the growth will be. But for us, the next slide will show you the differences between the invoicing and the revenue recognition here, which is, of course, a good sign for us. But anyway, the cost control is good also in this segment. So there is in Central Europe, especially an inflation going on, quite heavy inflation also on the wages. We will be able to mitigate the inflation with the reduction of headcount and that will continue also in the future. We are on a high profitability level, but we aim at being even higher during the coming years. As said, the invoicing, the sales is picking up and the revenues are coming later. So this is a sign of small recovery, slow recovery in Central and Eastern Europe and in the Southern Europe as well. The North should come later and start getting better. Alma Marketplaces, all the business units were able to increase the revenue and the profitability, as said. In Finland, the real estate market from the used dwellings used apartment has been growing already for a couple of months. The -- unfortunately, the sales of the new apartments is still on a very low level, and there's been no change for that. And the same applies to car market. The used car market is growing. The new car market just started to grow. The growth was around, was it 2% or something like that. So hopefully, we will see a speedy up market recovery also on the new car business. But our performance on those were really good. So the transactional services are increasing like for the DIAS digital advertising -- digital house market and buying more than half of the apartments sold in Finland were done by DIAS Digital Service. But most of the growth, as I said, comes from the digital service like 23.6% and the Edilex acquisition is, of course, one of the main reasons for and behind that. But also the other services are growing as expected or even better. On real estate side, the biggest growth came again from Sweden, from the commercial property business growing more than 20%, but the other parts are growing also, which is a slight sign of recovery of those businesses also in Finland. And the classified market, 12% up. So the Marketplaces of ours are working properly and are developing nicely. So we are developing and deploying AI into all of those services step by step, and that will increase the productivity of those and enrich the services as well. So pretty nice development, and we see that there's a possibility for this to continue as well in the future. There are a few slides on the market as we just -- so the housing market update and the vehicle market update in these slides. I don't go into details this, but you can read this later. I would say that on the housing market, that is more or less like a buyer's market still. So there are a lot of supply, like you can see from the left -- down side -- down part of this, but not that much demand on the market, which means that the prices of the houses and apartments are still going down in many places. And in mobility market, like you can see from this slide, the market is going up. The used car market is moving like expected. The new car market is still on a very low side, but still picking up about 2%, if I remember it correctly. And that is a little bit different case from the housing market. So they are also demand, 7% up the visitor base on our services, but there are lack of advertisement in the -- or listings in the services and in the market compared to the demand. So this is more like buyers' market because -- the new car sales are -- is at a low level. So there are no new items or new cars in the market, which, of course, affects also to the used car business. And lastly, the News Media, once again, a strong performance in every brand and sector. We gained some market share in digital advertising. That was a really good performance. The print advertising is going down as expected. The content revenue growth came from digital. The print revenue and content is also lagging behind and declining and a very good cost control and ends up to the result of 17.3% EBIT, which is a high level compared to any markets and any colleagues, and that's really good. Transformation is going as expected. 63% was the digital rate there, and that will continue and even speed up with the high decline of the print business. There's also still a high demand of the journalism like in Iltalehti, Kauppalehti and other brands. We have now over 223,000 digital subscriptions and growing. So the Iltalehti Plus and all the initiatives around the business media are going really, really well at the moment. So we are pushing a little bit further and investing a little bit more on those as well. So that's it. Very nice. Digital up 5.2% and print going down like 9%. So the transformation will go on and even speed up. This is a cloudy market on Finnish advertising. And unfortunately, there's not much light in in this. The print newspaper advertising heavily declining still. The online advertising slightly up, but not much. So there's a heavy task to keep on growing on this market, but we will push on. So that's it. The key numbers and achievements were this. I come back with the strategy and some of the latest initiatives after Taru -- Taru's presentation of the financials. Thank you, Taru.

Thank you, Kai, and good morning also from my behalf. It's again a great pleasure to present to you our financial performance, stable development in our businesses and our financial position is improving quite strongly at the moment. So about first to go into details of our financial position. So our balance sheet KPIs progressing really nicely and according to our plan. Our net debt decreased from the previous year, amounting EUR 145 million in the end of the September. And our equity ratio and gearing going down and up according to the plan, so improving really nicely. What is maybe worth of mentioning is that our financial costs and interest cost has been decreasing compared to same period of previous year, and there are like 3 elements behind this. Of course, the market interest has come down, but we have also done some active management of our debt portfolio in a way that there has been more weight in the commercial papers, which has slightly decreased the interest expense, of course, due to that. So in that sense, stable development in the financial position and balance sheet. Then moving on to the cash flow. And actually, the Q3 cash flow in 2025 was really strong, amounting EUR 21.5 million and being EUR 3 million stronger than in the previous year. We have some bigger tax payments allocated to Q3 this year, but actually in our effective tax rate hasn't changed. So this is more or less this kind of quarter-to-quarter type of fluctuation and seasonality, how the taxes are paid. And when looking at the cumulative effects on the taxes paid, they are more or less coming from the previous year, while we had some prepaid taxes from the tax authority related to 2023. But the improved cash flow is mainly driven by the operating result, of course, but also by net working capital change. And actually, our advanced payments received from the customers was EUR 1 million stronger or better than in the previous year and this is mainly driven by the Czech market. So like Kai was going through the invoicing and revenue recognition chart, we can see the same effect happening also in the balance sheet at the moment. And what comes to the cash flow after investments, it was EUR 15.1 million, a little bit less than in the previous year, and that mainly related to our investment of Effortia Oy. So in our investments in Q3, the biggest item was the Effortia, the business operating under Alma Marketplaces, and our CapEx level remained stable around EUR 1 million in the quarter level. And finally, the earnings per share, also our KPIs, return on equity and return on investments are progressing really nicely. And actually, the earnings per share also EUR 0.20 stronger than in the previous year. And this is also mainly explained by the strong operating result, but also with the lower level of restructuring and other negative one-off items. We also, in the previous [Technical Difficulty] 19:8 had negative effects of the fair value of interest derivative, and actually, the long-term interest has been quite stable during this year. So there haven't been that big fair value changes in this year and in the Q3. And then I shortly comment our financial performance against our long-term targets. So actually, -- the revenue growth was 5.4% in the Q3. And like Kai mentioned, half of coming as a nonorganic. So we actually in the quarter level, we were above our long-term target. But the cumulative 2025, 4.6% and last 12 months, 4.5%. So we are actually progressing really nicely towards our long-term target. And the profitability level remains more or less stable in the 25% adjusted operating profit margin. And maybe comment a little bit about our adjusted operating growth development now in Q3. So like you remember, we had an extremely strong growth, not extremely, but was a bigger growth in Q2, a little bit less than 9%. So now if we compare the Q1 and the cumulative growth rate for adjusting operating profit, it's more less like stable around a little bit above 6%. And what comes to the leverage, the KPI is proceeding according to the plan, so well below our threshold of 2.5% and the goal or the target level of 2.5%, representing 1.5%. So that was more or less everything I wanted to go through.

A few words about the underlying environment and markets going forward. This is something that, of course, every businesses want to change at the moment, quite sad picture, so to say. On the left side, we have the business confidence of the Finnish industries. I would say that same applies also for many other countries. But then the consumer confidence, which is on a very low level in Finland due to many reasons, is the sad thing here. So the worst business sector overall in Finland is, of course, the construction and the new apartment problems are reflecting to this and many other businesses in Finland, like the Finnish wealth is well in touch with the construction industry and the value chain. So this is something that needs to be changed. If the consumer confidence is not going to change in the forthcoming quarters, we're going to continue as is, meaning a very soft market. So my view is that in Finland, we are not going to see any rapid development in the market and the GDP growth, having these kind of slides in our site. But then on the other hand, we have here the GDP forecasts for our main key operating countries and smaller countries as well. And if you look at this, it seems that we're going to have pretty much the same environment that we have had this year in every country. There are no big differences in GDP growth. The unemployment rates are not going to grow. They are quite low in Slovakia and high in Finland. But this tells us that we have okay environment. It's still soft. So we have to be able to survive and grow in a softish environment also in the future, at least in the coming quarters. So the challenges will remain. But on the other hand, we will take advantage of the possibilities that are coming from the AI and the tech development. And of course, the main markets if they grow, we will take our share. This year, we have been able to take market share almost in every business, which is, of course, a good sign of the productivity and the effectiveness of the operations, and that will continue. A few words about the strategy. We will build on the good position, leading brands and the current plans in every business. So we will concentrate on these market areas more or less. We will continue expanding in new geographies in the South, as we are doing at the moment. But this is a good standpoint for future development, of course. We are #1 in recruiting houses and premises, vehicles, news media and digital advertising in Finland and very strong player in the Eastern Europe. So the journey continues. As I said, we are, at the moment, integrating our services into digital platforms like increasing our share and volume in value chains. So we are enriching with the data and AI, the services and helping our partners to develop their own businesses by integrating those to our platforms and doing more on digital. With the AI also, we are concentrating heavily on personalizing the services for different customer needs, which is, of course, increasing the quality of the services and effectiveness. And of course, if we can find proper targets for acquisitions, we will continue doing those, both the add-on or bolt-on acquisitions as we have done also this year, but also bigger moves if possible, while the balance sheet is getting stronger. So to be precise and clear, transform continues. All the current businesses are in a transform phase from old technology to new technology. We will grow diversifying our businesses into new services and revenue streams and accelerating that with that organic growth with M&A. And of course, we concentrate on the businesses that are scalable. We create new products and services into current geographical areas and new geographies, of course, if only possible. And as we know, Alma is a synergistic company. We use all the resources in the company for the benefit of every business. So we share the audience, data technology and countrywide ad sales. But we concentrate on these 3 business areas: advanced marketplaces, intelligent insight Services and inspiring media and national media, especially. So this is the concept of Alma that we continue. As said, from traditional revenue sources like advertising and content, we move on to transactional services and transactions like digital house transactions, DIAS or other data-related businesses in houses and premises, inside services, car business and others, just to name a few. So that will continue. So the revenue streams and the revenue setup will be leveraged into more transactional step by step also with the help of AI and the ability to personalize the different services. Where we are at the moment in deploying the AI. As we have disclosed the core strategy, the steps that we take in deploying AI, we use this kind of simplified view. We are at the moment in the phase of increasing the internal productivity to take the tools at our use on corporate level in every business, in every team and on personal level. We are in a good spirit with this. We have a lot of initiatives around this, and we have the needed tools at our use. And we are moving into the Stage 2, where we have a bunch of nice examples already. I can show you those later. So enriching the services with the help of AI already. A good results on that on productivity, on quality, on customer usage. And then the third phase is, of course, the most difficult ones that comes later like changing existing businesses into new value chains, disrupting our own businesses with the new technology totally or creating completely new businesses that we have at the moment and that might come. Also the competition might come on that side later, but now this seems to be nicely under control. So we had dozens of different kind of initiatives on the table and going on inside the company. We have quite a lot of investment also on the AI side. And the personnel in Alma, they seem to be really, really excited of deploying all the new technology around the [ AIC ]. A few examples, I wouldn't go very deeply into the details. But as mentioned, in every segment, dozens of new initiatives in order to deploy in order to learn how to use the AI, how to increase the productivity in the first place, but then how to increase and enrich the services for the benefit of the customers, are they private consumers or businesses. In Alma Career, this is not a new thing. They have developed AI-assisted services with the, how to say, heart AI for years, like for content generation, automatic summaries of feedback and so on. The newest ones are Jobly Vibes, which is a new service for summer jobs in Finland. It is about to launch right now and so on. So a lot of things happening here. And in Alma Marketplaces as well, a lot happening around the search like semantic search on Etuovi. Edilex AI, which is, of course, one of the key investments this year, intelligent legal content search for professionals, it's really, really nice and others as well. And on the media side, news media side, Sophi is the Dynamic Paywall. It takes care of or into consideration the context and the consumer usage, the personal way of using it, different kind of moderators, chats, and AI produced podcasts. So a lot of happening here, which is interesting to see and all the time, new things and new initiatives arising from the current feedback and learnings. That's good. As said, we just made a little bit changes in the outlook. As you already know, we expect our revenue and adjusted operating profit to remain at the last year's level or grow, and we are well on that path. That's it. That's it. Any questions? There are a few.

This is Nikko from SEB. I have 3 questions, one of which regarding the guidance and then 2 business area specific, but let's start with the guidance question. So what was the trigger that made you update the guidance 2 weeks back? And what business areas or parts were those that were doing better than you had initially expected?

The Marketplaces business is growing better than we expected actually. So the one of -- part of that comes from the slight increase and pickup of the markets, underlying markets like from the housing market and car market, but mostly from our own operations. So the Marketplaces where the other business units were growing faster than we expected, especially the Swedish commercial property side and the inside service side. So that is a nice -- it's not a surprise, but it's going better than we expected. So overall, the Marketplaces.

All right. And then maybe could continue on that topic on Marketplaces growth there. So could you a little bit more open how much of your improvement was driven by your own actions, how much of that the market? And then how long do you think that you can kind of continue growing with your own improvement actions at the pace of this?

No. Well, we have -- as we have disclosed before, so we have a quite intensive investment phase going on, on that Marketplaces side like we have OviPro and on the car sector as well. So they will be -- they are set up and now we are in a phase for deploying and integrating the customers into the services more or less. So that will come next year, more or less, the revenues. But then the current services are working as expected. And while the market is going up, the results will come. But then we have this kind of product and pricing initiatives going on there. So we are developing our products prices combination, which are a little bit increase in the prices as well. So that's a combination of volume and prices in every sector. So that's the thing. It's a little bit difficult to say how much of all the increase comes from the market and our own initiative. It's a combination. But as we saw in Marketplaces, like broadly, the housing market, the used apartment business is growing. I have the numbers here if you need. The used apartment business is now growing, started to grow. It's a biased market as we see. There are more supply than demand at the moment. So the prices are getting up and the used apartment market is going up. The new apartment market is still going down or it's stable. So we are on the bottom of that. And the same for the cars. The car market is on a very low side. It's 2% increase in new car business, but nice -- was it 6% increase in the used car market. And of course, we are going to benefit on that growth, at least with the market share that we have. That's clear. So underlying market development on initiatives, on product development and pricing and of course, the productivity initiatives in doing the businesses with the help of AI, that's a combination of this and that will continue.

Okay. So that there should be room to continue improving.

Exactly. Yes.

Great. Then on Career, where you mentioned that the current expenses are elevated and you expect also or said that you expect the profitability to improve in the coming years. So how long should we expect that we start to see profitability or margins improving in the business area?

So we are doing productivity initiatives all the time. But the double cost for the tech -- like for let's put it this way, we are doing the cloud migration at the moment. So the local technology is transferring to cloud to Amazon in our case. And there we have double costs, and that will continue until the end of next year. So we have extra costs there until next year. Plus we have the product development costs on the Career United project. So we are creating the setup for the thing. So this is the final part of the project of 3, 4 years going on, and that will end up at the end of next year. So then the margins will -- at last, they will get up. But we are doing other initiatives as well. So the technology is not the only one, but others as well. But then, of course, the markets are getting better there. So we have seen growth already and the invoicing is growing in our case. So we are quite positive on the market development on that side as well.

Petri Gostowski from Inderes. Continuing on Career, you've seen the invoicing going up and advances going up. Are you expecting the revenues to continue on an upward trajectory from here on? Or how do you see it?

Yes, we are. Yes, we are. Definitely, yes.

Then continuing on the Career United project development costs. Did I understand correctly that the costs have picked up now in Q3 compared to the first half due to increased development or --.

So we have continued -- there are a little bit more cost on Q3, especially compared to the last year's Q3. But then on the other hand, we have decreased the amount of personnel in order to mitigate the wage inflation there. So we have 10% less personnel than we have had last year, around 10%, of course, but that only keeps the cost on par compared to that. But yes, we have -- at the moment, now we are in a phase where we have all the old cost there on tech side and product side and increased new cost because of the cloud transformation, right? And that will continue by the end of next year, as I've heard, unfortunately.

Then jumping to the real estate business in Sweden. You've grown rapidly there for some time now. Can you talk about the market growth or the development of your market share? Where are you taking the market share if you are taking some?

Good question. So the -- that's also a combination of market-based development and own initiatives. So market is growing in Sweden. It's a totally different market than we have in Finland. So there's a lot of movement there. We are market leader there. But then on the other hand, we have developed our services, products and prices as well. It's a combination of those. And in Sweden, we are really good at that. And the services are performing really well. But we have Santtu Elsinen here who can answer.

Okay. So you can hear me, Santtu Elsinen, Head of Alma Marketplaces to continue Kai's comment. So yes, we have taken market share also from the competition.

Can I add on that? How do you differ from competition there?

Well, in principle, most of the marketplaces are feature-wise fairly similar. Of course, we have many features that the competitors don't and some of them have features that we don't. But our success in the Swedish market largely relies on the fact that we have performed really well on search engine positioning. So when people are seeking for, let's say, properties in [ Etua, OviPro ] or so, they typically -- the first search results come from our services. We have put some effort into this. And that, of course, helps the sales. And since clients see that we are the top providers of traffic to their properties, it helps our position, let's put it that way.

The service, of course, performs. It brings you the best results, like the market-leading service should do. That's actually the final reason for succeeding in the market.

Yes. One more on the same topic, if I may. How many players are there currently on the market that you're competing with? And then maybe if you could share some idea of your current market share?

We have not been disclosing the market share, and it is also somewhat difficult because we don't have exact figures from the competition. There is one service which is similar to ours based on [indiscernible]. And then there are, of course, the services of the large real estate owners. Those are, in a sense, competition. They also advertise on our portals, but they are significant players in their own right, the largest ones.

So they have their own services, right?

Yes.

Any other questions? From online?

Yes. Happy to say we have quite a few questions online. So let's start with Pia Rosqvist-Heinsalmi from DNB Carnegie. Your Q3 sales grew by 5%, whereas adjusted EBIT grew slightly less than 4% year-on-year. Any temporary timing-related issues in the cost? Or what explains the faster cost growth compared to sales growth?

Yes, it's time related, but then we have also the extra development costs. So the comparable Q3 last year was really good, really, really fast. So overall, our view is that we have a steady growth like rolling 12 months. Development is really steady from our point of view. There are differences, of course, between the months and quarters, but we are going to the right direction. So I would say that the speed has remained from a revenue point of view and from profitability point of view as well.

Okay. Second from Pia. Marketplaces grew organically 9% year-on-year. How much of this growth was driven by price increases and how much by improving volumes?

Well, we don't disclose exact numbers, but the overall view, Santtu, you can say if you want if you have the better view than I have.

Yes. So Santtu, again here, you probably saw the graphs concerning the total volume growth. And I guess it can be said that there hasn't been any dramatic growth per se. So we have increased our pricing mostly via packaging. But of course, some small market pickup has been seen as well. Then there are services where the volume has clearly grown like DIAS, the digital property trade. So we enjoy currently around 60% market share of the Finnish trades, and this has improved by 10% -- over 10% during this year. So it was below 50% at the beginning of this year. So there are services where the volume has definitely increased as well.

Thank you. Third from Pia. What is your current view on your cost growth outlook for '26?

Well, the budget yet. But -- so we have extra costs for the AI definitely, so the tools, but they are there already. So I would say that the rate -- cost rate that we have, the burn rate that we have would be quite normal for the coming quarters and years. And the salary increase will be according to the agreements that we have, a couple of percent maybe and so I can't see any big extra costs in terms of current businesses. Of course, if we acquire new business --.

A little bit with the details. So our reported cost increase has been more or less the cumulative numbers, I think it's more relevant to focus on the cumulative numbers has been like around 4%. And the organic growth of cost base has been more or less like 1.6%. So I would say that, that's representing quite nicely about the effects of inflation and so on and also the continuance of the cost.

Yes, it's difficult to see that the running costs of current businesses would decrease more than that. And of course, with the help of AI, we either try to decrease the cost or speed up the time-to-market with the new services that we are doing at the moment. It's actually a good target to speed up the time-to-market to speed up the development with help of the AI with the new tools.

Okay. You mentioned the M&A pipeline a little bit, but Pia was also interested to know about the description of the M&A pipeline. So are there larger target companies under negotiation currently?

Pia, good try. So we investigate all the time in every segment, there's a specific procedure investigating the markets. And as I mentioned, we are considering the 3 main focus areas; classifieds, information services and media. And in every sector, we have all the time discussions, investigations, negotiations going on, which is normal. That's no news. So we will definitely continue with doing this kind of bolt-on investments, speeding up the product development and speeding up the service integrations into current businesses. But then we have increasing room for bigger steps, also like at the moment, around EUR 200 million, I would say, and developing. So of course, we are interested in using this resource in the future if we only find the proper targets that we are currently investigating, of course.

And finally from Pia, you are committed to reaching your financial target of an adjusted EBIT margin of more than 30% in 2027. What are the main hurdles to reach this target?

I would say that we don't have interim hurdles at all. All that -- all those will come if they will come outside of the company. They can be regulated. They are geopolitical. They are market -- underlying market-based difficulties that, of course, we have to be able to adjust like we have done in recent years. But inside the company, I can't see what would hurdle the development and reaching the target.

Okay. It seems to be the final question is coming from Caj Toppari from Nordea. What did product development investments include within the Career segment? And do you expect them to continue within the next quarters?

Yes, Vesa-Pekka, you can actually -- would you like to answer that?

Yes. So what did product development investments include within the Career segment? And do you expect them to continue with the next quarters?

So we have -- as Kai pointed out, we have actually several operative projects going on. One of them is the Amazon transfer from old servers, local servers onto a cloud-based. This is one of the reasons of our increase of cost or double costing was already reflected today. The product development, you can put that in 2 categories. One of them is developing our joint one product platform for Career. The main time of development has been this year and next year. We already implemented these components to the job boards Career-wide and that implementation is almost mostly done by the end of next year. In addition to this platform development, we also do new product development. Kai mentioned earlier, Jobly Vibes, which is a concept we are now first launching in Finland and taking over to other countries beginning of next year. So the investments are both for platform as well as for new products.

All right. Any other questions? Or was this all we have for the time being. All right. In that case, I thank you very much for your attention, and we'll see as put here next time with the financial year '25 results on Thursday, 5th February and the Q1 on April 29. Elina, anything else?

We're ready. Thank you.

Okay. Thank you very much. Have a nice weekend.