Alma Media Oyj (ALMA) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to this interim report session of the second quarter and the first half 2022 of Alma Media. My name is Elina Kukkonen, and I'm responsible of the communications and brand here at Alma. We begin this presentation shortly, and first to go on stage will be our CEO, Mr. Kai Telanne. He will present the overall result of Alma Media and also highlight each business segment of Alma Media. After Kai's presentation, Mr. Juha Nuutinen, the CFO of Alma Media will present the financial position of Alma Media. And then Mr. Telanne continues about the strategy going forward and the operating environment. And after the presentations, we have plenty of time for questions. We welcome all the questions. We take first the questions here at Alma premises, and then from the online chat function. So don't hesitate to ask questions, we're happy to answer them all. Our Manager of IR and Communications, Mr. Teemu Salmi, he will speak up the questions from the online channel. So once again, welcome, all. Nice to have you here and join us today with this stream and interim report session. And I think we're ready. And please, Mr. Telanne, the stage is yours.

Thank you, Elina. Good morning, everybody. It's great to see you here and online as well. As Elina said, I'll start with the brief overview of the second quarter of Alma Media like the business review and some highlights of our operations, and Juha will continue with the financials and the balance sheet issues more or less. A good development continued from the beginning of the year. As you can see from the slide on the right side, with revenue growth of 11% and the operating profit improving with 16%. That was quite well in line with our own expectations. All the business segments, solid performance, especially the Alma Career, which is leading the way for the good performance and the profitability. EBIT margin at the top high level, 24.2% and for the first half of the year, 25%, which is actually the long-term target of our profitability that we have lately revised. Due to a very good profitability development and good cash flow, our gearing went down to 94%, and equity ratio up from 29% to 39%. That's, of course, very important for the future purposes for the investment capability of ours for the future investments. As said, Career was the leader in revenue and profitability development. Other segments more on par compared to the last year. Especially on the revenue side, a slight increase in costs in consumer and talent because of decision-based cost for product development. And so we will go deeper into this later. The core strategy of Alma is, of course, develop the digital business to transform the old print to digital and as a combination of digital media and services. This strategy has continued as expected and as planned, 16% growth during the second quarter. The first quarter and the previous quarter, as you can see, they consist of the new investments of the Nettix operations. So this 16% is more or less the organic growth of digital business. It's above our own targets -- of the targets that we have disclosed earlier. Let's go deeper into the business segments then. I start from the Alma Career, which will be the biggest segment of Alma this year and the most profitable one. Of course, as you can see from this slide, a nice growth continued with the high profitability. Revenue went up 42% during the second quarter and more than 50% during the first half of the year, with a high profitability and increasing profitability. Adjusted operating profit 53% up during the second quarter and almost 90% during the first half of the year. So this is a remarkable achievement, of course, after the difficult COVID year, and it tells us about the good rebound of the recruitment and labor markets all over the place. Every country contributed nicely, especially the biggest countries like Czech Republic, Slovakia and Baltics and so on, a really, really good performance still going on. On top of the traditional job boards, which is, of course, the core of the business and the most profitable part of the business, the other services as well, like the added services, recruitment advertising, of course, where we have a huge potential also, but the career development and staffing services as well are developing favorably. It's a little bit strange while we have this crisis and the offense in Ukraine -- Russian offense, the labor market has stayed very lively. And there's a huge demand still on different kind of labor in every country, and that seem to be continuing. Our sales have developed favorably around 33% still, which is, of course, a good sign for the future as well. This is the curve for the invoicing and revenue recognition in Alma Career, which tells us that the demand is going on nicely. Secondly, Alma Consumer, which is the Finnish part of the business, a combination of digital -- leading digital media and classified services on houses and premises and cars and so on and different kind of comparison services. Revenue growth of 2%, organic growth of 4%. Adjusted operating profit slightly down because of the investment in product development. We have quite a heavy investments at the moment on cars and services, different kind of ERP systems and also for housing systems. Nettix integrated nicely into the car mobility services. So the organization is well in place at the moment and rocking nicely, a good growth of advertising, both in iltalehti.fi, mobility services, mobile services as well as in houses and premises like Etuovi.com. Nice digital growth. At the moment, digital ratio of this segment's business is almost 83%. So the decline in print doesn't have a remarkable effect anymore for us as we know the print advertising is still declining, but it doesn't have that big effect on our businesses anymore. We will continue with the investments in products and services in order to guarantee a good development in the future. As disclosed before, we are transforming our consumer segments, classified businesses into transactional mode where we need the investments for the technology and those investments are in place. They are mostly -- in our case, they are mostly in the costs. Yes. That's the way we do that. So that is seen there. We actually doesn't have this kind of salary inflation going on in our case. Of the increased cost are this kind of decision-based costs for the product development and services, not the inflation costs. And third, the Alma Talent. Very nice digital business growth, a good development on digital subscriptions. In this segment, the decline in new car sales in the market affects mostly. So we are seeing a declining advertising on cars and other vehicles as well the lagging volume of IPOs, which is, of course, very important advertising part for car [ product ], especially. Recurring revenues on the service, especially growing according to our plan, almost 16%, and that seem to be continuing. Digital business at the moment, over 60%. So the transformation is going on nicely and as expected. As you can see from the right side of this slide, 56% of the segment's revenue coming from the media business and the other part from services and direct marketing. Solid performance there. So that is the -- those were the highlights of the second quarter, quite satisfactory quarter. And now Juha will continue with the financials, with the balance sheet and others. And after Juha, I will come back with the strategy going forward.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

Yes. Thank you. The next slides like Kai told you cover the financial position comments, cash flow, earnings per share and our updated or our long-term financial targets. So -- but let's start with the balance sheet first. Last year, we had a pretty strong investments, and that's why our balance sheet were pretty stretched at that time, but now we have stronger and stronger balance sheet in each -- after each quarter. And our net debt level is EUR 164 million at the end of June. They were slightly increased from the first quarter, EUR 7 million, and that comes from the dividend payment, which we had in April. It was EUR 29 million dividends what we paid in April. So that explains the slight increase there. But the gearing is 93%. So it's going down. And after this -- during the second half year, it will be stronger and stronger as well, both gearing and net debt level will decrease as well. The most part of the debt comes from the term loan, EUR 170 million, what we have at the moment, it is 3 years maturity and is expiring at the end of '24. And equity ratio we have is 39%. Operating cash flow, we have pretty stable during this quarter compared to last year second quarter. We had slightly stronger cash flows in the first quarter and the last quarter last year. It is explained by the high invoicing in Alma Career and especially the advanced payments, what we will receive in the first quarter. So the next quarters will be pretty balanced compared to last year. But yes, stable, strong cash flow from operating point of view. CapEx, we have EUR 4 million during the first half year. It's over -- slightly higher than what we have had in history. There is a couple of bigger investments, especially in our marketplace business in housing and cars, and that explains higher CapEx level that we have had and the CapEx will be higher this year than the last year figure, EUR 6 million. We had acquisitions, EUR 2.4 million in April as well. It comes from the redemption of shares concerning Netello Systems. We already owned 60% of the shares, and now we bought the rest of the 40% shares in April. Earnings per share was one of our highest in history, EUR 0.28. There is -- this comes from the good result as naturally, but there is also a couple of extraordinary items as well affecting in that figure. One is the capital gain from the sale of Bolt Group shares. It was EUR 6 million capital gain and in affecting roughly EUR 0.07 in this earnings per share. There was also we have a positive fair value change also in our interest hedging agreement in our -- what we are hedging the interest costs and our term loan interest, and that was affected by EUR 1.6 million in the second quarter as a positive in our financial items. So that effect was roughly EUR 0.02. So there are EUR 0.09 in a way, extraordinary items in this quarter earnings per share. Return on equity and return on investments are at the high level at the moment because of good results, but also this because of these extraordinary items. Long-term financial targets. We have not updated this. This comes from the -- in the beginning of the year. Revenue growth target, we have 5%. Naturally, this year, what we have said earlier this year will be much over. That target, this comes from the pretty strong revenue growth at Alma Career segment, but also in the first quarter, it includes the acquisition of Nettix effect as well. So these 2 items will explain that much higher revenue growth that what we have in long-term target. Adjusted operating margin, like Kai said, we have, in the first half year, we have 25%, which is the same actually what we have in the long-term target level as well. We lifted up that target in the beginning of this year. On the net debt and EBITDA ratio we have, at the moment, 1.8. We have this upper limit is 2.5, and we are below that level currently quite significantly. And it will be decreased during the following quarters as well. So our financial position is solid at the moment. We are in a good phase in that sense, and it will be stronger and stronger after each quarter in the future. So in that sense, it's -- we are in a positive path, I'd say. Yes. And then operating environment, Kai will continue about this overall market situation what we have.

All right. Thank you. As said, a nicely developing balance sheet for future purposes and for dividend purposes as well. Then there's, of course, the question that how is this operating environment developing from now on with the Ukrainian crisis going on. As said earlier, we don't have any direct business in Ukraine or Russia. So we have only indirect effects on this. They will come with the market development, of course, in mid or long term. So far, so good. As said, the career business is running smoothly, but slowing down on the advertising side in Finland. The latest forecast for the European Commission are quite clear. The GDP changes around half from the beginning of the year. Inflation rates seem to be doubling or tripling from the previous forecast or the last year figures and the unemployment rates seem to be quite stable, which tells us that the labor markets will be quite stable in all over the place. That's a good sign, of course, for us for the career business development, which will be seen and which is seen from our own sales figures as well. But the concern of ours is, of course, on the inflation and the GDP growth of the European markets. That will have its effects on the advertising and the businesses of our customers in many sectors, of course. So as we said, so we are expecting a little bit slowing down of the markets. And we have seen after the nice rebound of the advertising from the last year and the COVID times, the new situation seemed to effect on the advertising in Finland in June, a little more than 8% decline of the overall advertising coming mainly, of course, from the newspaper that has been declining heavily. But also the online advertising is declining at the moment from last year's pretty okay figures. Luckily, our digital advertising is still growing. So we are gaining market share. As you can see, our market share from the Finnish media companies, among them is 38%. We have -- in this material, we have some numbers from the most important markets of our classified businesses, mainly houses and premises and cars. It's good to understand how the market is developing at the moment. And roughly, it seems like that the -- for the houses and premises, the used houses, market is declining around 10%. And the new -- for the new apartments, much more. So the construction industry is suffering at the moment, and they have slowed down remarkably with the news of the European market. And for us, that means that the volume of the listings is slightly down, like around 5% at the moment. And the activity of the house sellers or buyers like the consumers is down around 10% at the moment. So the market is slightly slowing down. Now well, our revenues are still increasing. We have price increases and add-on services, which increases our sales still on the houses and premises. And for the mobility services, new car businesses is struggling a lot, as we know because of the difficulties in the supply chain, 25% down the market and for the used cars, around 10%. So this is the overall view. Our listing for our sales in the Nettiauto, which is the biggest business is well on par with the market decline around 10%, but the gross market value is increasing, and that comes from the fact that the cheap car volume is declining. And in the service, a little bit more expensive cars are sold at the moment. So there's a change in the market as well, which is, of course, very good for the Finnish car market in all. So that's the view. The car importers and the manufacturers are saying that this -- the difficulties with the supply is going to ease a little bit because of the heavy investments on the chip industry, for example, in the U.S. and there, but that will take time, of course. But we'll see. And the difficulties in new car business has a remarkable effect, of course, on the car advertising, which is the main reason for our talent advertising, digital advertising to decline and for the consumer side as well. That comes from the market. Our market share has actually increased, as said before. Okay, that's it. Is there then a reason to revise our strategy? Not really. We are going to continue with the 3 step strategy. We continue to transform the core to new, which is, of course, to transform the print business to digital, from traditional classified business to transactional business and so on. And we are relying heavily on a good cooperation inside the company. Part of the strategy is, for example, the Career United project that we have, we are combining force and labor in career segment in order to be more effective to gain speed in product development and cost efficiency, of course. We are going to continue to grow in digital, new services, new platforms, diversification in businesses and so on. And then thirdly, to continue the internationalization of the business to new geographies. And so -- and here are the drivers for the growth. I'm not going to go into the details. You have seen this, but you have this in the materials. This is clear. We have a strong position. It's a good place to grow and to develop. And we will keep the good position and try to increase the position in the new areas like on the Balkan area like you can see from here. Lastly, about our science-based targets, ESG agenda. As you know, Alma has been the leading media in Finland on sustainability development issues for quite a long time. We were the first one to set up the science-based targets, was in 2018. And now we have revised them in order to be in line with the 1.5% sales trajectory. At -- we have set the new targets and decided to reduce the scope 1 and 2 emissions by 52% by 2030 from a base year of 2019. We have had the targets lately approved by the sales-based target initiative. And the other targets as well. But overall, all employees in Alma Media, we have ESG targets. So everybody in the company has some or many of these targets to follow. And we are working heavily on this, of course. Some major achievements during the second quarter, most of this has already gone through. One of these is the Iltalehti Plus, which is the subscription target, the initiative for gaining paid customers for the tabloid business of Iltalehti is growing as expected and nicely. And with that, with the good growth of paid subscribers of Iltalehti Plus, we have been able to mitigate the decline of the print media, the single copy sales of Iltalehti. All right. And finally, the outlook that was given and announced on 8th July, so we will increase the revenues and adjusted operating profit significantly from the last year's level. That's it. I will stop here. And if you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask them. Teemu, do we have online some or here, first here?

Pia Rosqvist from Carnegie. Maybe starting with Alma Career. So any specific comments on costs for the remainder of the year. I'm reading your report and you mentioned higher employee, higher marketing expenses and some cost inflation, at least in the second quarter. So do you expect them to persist? How can you manage the costs in career during the second quarter?

Yes. A very good question. Thank you. I try to find the career here. So the volumes of the career business is going or are going up. we increased the labor there, especially on marketing and sales, and that increase in the costs, of course. We try to keep the margins high as we have done here. From here, you can see -- it's from here, you can see that still half -- around half of the revenues are going down to the last row, which is, of course, the target. But it's impossible to increase the volume without increasing the cost as well, at least the sales volume. But then there's the question of how the market is developing, the underlying market. And from the down part of the slide, you can see that the visitors, unique visitors has decreased a little bit. And with the tight labor market, we need to advertise more and we need to try to increase the visitors in order to guarantee that the service is working for the employers. And there goes the marketing. So marketing expenses are increasing when the market is tightening. I mean, the labor market. It's a very low unemployment rate like we have in Czech Republic, a little bit more than 2% at the moment. It's difficult to get people changing the jobs or finding the jobs for the employers, and that's why we need to increase the marketing. And that will continue when the labor market is tight. And the volumes are increasing. The good sign here is, of course, that we have been able to increase the number of paid job ads. So the tight labor market in a way enhances the need for the job ads and we can use that deal, of course. So we are not actually seeing this kind of cost inflation. It comes from the volume. This is more like a decision-based cost increase, not the inflation-based cost. Okay. We have inflation as well, but not that much on the salaries, not yet. That might come later if the inflation continues for the next year to come. At the moment, we don't have salary inflation, at least in Finland. In Eastern countries, we have slightly, but it doesn't explain the cost increase here. These are decision-based cost increases to sales and marketing and product development.

Okay. Clear. Then if I still continue on the digital advertising growth in Alma Consumer, so what would you highlight as the main success factors that enables you to keep winning in the market?

Firstly, market-leading position, a good reach of Iltalehti, a good development of the visitors and the interest, of course, of the news because of the overall development in the market like the crisis and whatever. And then a good performance of our sales and marketing, people development. Programmatic advertising, we have a very good technology, high reach and a good technology. So we are getting market share on the programmatic as well. And then mobile services, of course, most of the usages on mobile, we have a good stance there whatever. And then, of course, a very good services and the digital stance, of course. Only 20% of this segment's business is offline and only a couple of percents of the advertising is online here. So mostly the offline revenue is coming from single copy sales of Iltalehti. I don't actually remember the share of digital advertising segment, but they may -- you can check that. It must be well over 90% at the moment.

Okay. And then a final question on Alma Talent. So the overall inflationary pressure in Finland is felt. And I'm thinking already about next year and the pressure we might see on distribution costs and distribution services overall. So how concerned or are you concerned that the transformation from digital to print now is speeding up for some of your -- the final print products you still have in your offering?

Yes. That's -- you might say that I'm concerned about the cost inflation of paper and distribution, of course. There's a high inflation there. But then on the other hand, I'm quite happy with the transformation of the business from print to digital, which seem to be much more profitable than the old print one. But then honestly, we will do the print business as long as there is the demand for that and the audience like to have and likes to have and the advertisers want to advertise on the print business as well. So we are following that. But you're right, there's cost inflation in print, much more than in digital, and that will speed up the transformation. Of course, because we have to increase the prices, of course, for the print business that will slow down the growth of the print, of course, and the -- that might affect to the circulation and the subscription base of the print. But on the other hand, when we are able to transform the print subscriptions to digital subscriptions on revenue wise, it doesn't mean that much. But on profitability, it's actually favorable transformation for us.

Sanna Perala from Nordea. Continuing with the career inflation situation. If we are going to see some inflation there, will you be able to make some price increases there? Or have you done any to mitigate the impact of inflation?

Yes, we do all the time. We do the price increases hand-in-hand with the inflation that is going on. So we are able to mitigate that, of course. So I wouldn't see -- I can't imagine that kind of effect on our profitability with the cost inflation.

Okay. Then my second question would be about the product development and marketing costs and those investments you have going on. What -- is there a level going to be in the future, thinking of the investments and CapEx needs this year and the years to come?

So can you repeat the question? So what would the leverage be?

Level, sorry.

Level. Okay. Level.

Level, level of investments.

Yes. Well, about the same as we have at the moment. Of course, now we have the phase of the, you may say it might decrease, but you never know how the market and the world is going to develop. But at the moment, we have so many ongoing investments for products and services at the same time that it will affect on the figures as well. So we are developing houses and premises, ERP systems, new platform, cars and other vehicles as well and ERP systems there and also the comparison services platforms are under development at the moment. So quite a lot happening. Part of the investments are a continuation or due to the Nettix integration and like the development of the acquired business and to combine that and to integrate that to our previous businesses. So it's partly part of the -- that investment in a sense. So that will continue definitely this year and next year, I'd say, and the revenues will follow and the profitability will follow.

If we have no further questions in this -- on site, we have a number of good questions from the online community. And please do not hesitate to ask some tough questions to Kai and Juha here. First question is from Maria Wikstrom from Skandinaviska Enskilda Banken, and it is a direct quote. You're saying that recruitment growth will slow down towards year-end. If we are going into slower economic growth environment in 2023, is it like that financial year 2022 will end up being a peak year for Alma Media?

Well, it's impossible to say how the world is developing next year, nobody knows not yet. But it seems that the European labor market will be tight also in the future. If we won't end up it into a recession, the market seemed to be favorable for us. If the European Commission forecast are like they are at the moment, we have a good basis for good development in the career business. So our targets will be to grow in a very profitable way as well. But of course, if this turns to be a tough recession, for example, then the game is totally different, or at least should be. We are -- this growth -- we expect this growth to continue. That is the view at the moment.

Okay. A follow-up from Maria. Any update on merchants and acquisitions? Do you think the current volatility could open up some opportunities for you to strengthen the operations?

Yes.

And a follow-up. In which business this acquisition would be directed to?

Okay. So we have actually -- basically, we have 2 or 3 focus areas. If I start from the career, of course, the career regional growth would be of our interest. So we are going at the moment on the Balkan area. And there, we are leveraging the business on the service side on -- in there. The second focus area is digital services in Finland. Like for talent, we are developing these B2B digital services company information, legal services or law services data, and houses and premises data services like the DSN and others. And we are willing to speed up this development with acquisition as well if they only are our targets. And then the same in the consumer side. So we are developing the business and ready to speed up the development with acquisitions, especially on the digital classified services, transactional services and so on. So we have, of course, investigate these possibilities all the time that you will hear if something happens, of course. But then there's a question of the balance sheet. And at the moment, we don't have balance sheet -- after the big investment of Nettix, at the moment, we don't have resources for big investments. We have to wait for a year or 2. With this cash flow, the situation is changing. Okay, if we have a very good target, interesting target, the prices are going down, as you mentioned, we can always go to the equity market if needed. And of course, our Board and shareholders, they are willing to do that if a good targets arise. So that's the case. But at the moment, with our own balance sheet, we are not able to do that kind of Nettix size acquisition as we all understand. We have around EUR 30 million, EUR 40 million per year at the moment to use for acquisitions. And that means that for the focus areas that we are aiming at, the sizes of the deals are quite small and the businesses are quite small. As we know, they are profitable businesses with a high growth margin and they are quite expensive in any case. So smallest add-on bolt-on acquisition at the moment, the bigger ones will come later.

All right. Thank you. Now Petri Gostowski from Inderes, has 3 questions. And the first one is on consumer. Consumer's housing revenue was up 13% despite weaker market. What was the driver of this?

We are -- we have done price increases, of course. And then we have the value-added services and the ERP system services that we are developing. That's a good sign, of course, and a good example of the things that we are doing. And we are investing and putting money on developing these services. We are, of course, waiting for the revenues to come as well. And we've been in the market quite a long time. As we know, we started early in 20 years ago to be in the system market as well. So we are developing this kind of ERP systems for the agents and other stakeholders, and we are speeding up the development. One example of this development is the DS service, the digital end-to-end solution for that area. And the others will come. So that is the reason, of course, we're able to increase -- maybe increase the market share and increase a little bit of prices and new services as well. And of course, that's the way the market leader should do, keep the price level on a decent level, improve the services and increase the services to leverage the business like horizontally or vertically as well. So that's the idea.

And then Petri's follow-up is on career. Can you comment on the EUR 2 million Q-on-Q cost increase in career? To what extent is it volume linked? Or is there something impacting comparison on a quarterly basis?

What is this -- Juha can follow the exact number, but Petri is asking that what is behind the growth of the cost of the career overall. Is that the question?

One big part of that comes from the marketing expenses. So we have increased the marketing efforts quite a lot and that -- most of that increase comes from that. And also, we have increased number of employees as well. So the other part comes from the salary costs.

Yes, but that's part of -- that's what I tried to explain that the costs are decision-based costs to sales and advertising. That's it. It's no doubt of [ enhanced ] decision-based. If the volume comes down, we are going to downsize the cost as well. So we are cutting the cost and the number of employees and so on, in that case, of course.

Fine. Then we go to Sami Sarkamies from Danske Markets. First question is on investments. Are you planning on scaling back development cost level at consumer and talent in order to prepare for a slower business momentum?

No. No, we are not. So we are very decisive with the investment and the product development at the moment. So we will continue that and go into the new businesses like for the consumer business to traditional classifiers to transactional businesses. We will do that. So that train is moving and then that will go. The same on the talent side. So we are very committed on finalizing the investments and the products there during this and next year. And then, okay, this is like the continuous work, you have to develop the services all the time. We don't acquire printing machines, but we develop the software development for the current and new services all the time. But that will continue. So we are not cutting down these investments.

Okay. Then Sami's follow-up on career. Looking at our latest invoicing data point from June, it seems that the strong growth could be leveling off. Do you still have visibility for continued invoicing growth in Q3?

For the career, we just -- yes. Yes, we have a good speed still. So a nice growth there. It's leveling down, but of course, we have tough comparables as well. So it's good to have a view on the years 2020, 2019 and also. So we are well above the 5 years average and so on. So we had a nice rebound. Of course, there's no business that can grow 50% year-on-year as we know, and the labor markets are not developing that will enter this kind of growth. But it seems that the nice growth this year will continue. And if the labor market continues as expected in relation to the GDP growth of the European markets and the forecast of the European community, we are going to have a nice growth there as well on the next year.

Then on consumer. You had a negative EBIT growth in Q2. Why would the trend be any better in second half of the year?

No, it depends very much on the market development. We have our investments going on there. We have quite a good development on the advertising. But it depends very much on the car market developing, the houses and premises market development. So that's the big question, of course. What is going to happen there? Is it going to continue as is? Or is it improving or what? So it's really difficult to say and promise anything. But we are quite confident at the moment, so…

Then Sami's question on talent. You had negative EBIT growth in Q2, which was partially driven by divestments. Why would the underlying trend be any better in H2?

The same as on the consumer side. So the car industry sale is really important for us. And the car advertising, it's been declining, and it has a heavy effect on talent, especially Kauppalehti and other as well. And then, of course, the IPOs, which are lagging behind heavily is one of the other sectors. But otherwise, we are confident. Our sales is running smoothly in other sectors. But again, very difficult to estimate why -- how the overall market is going to develop and the economy is developing with this situation.

And then this is the final question from Sami. And this is also the final question from the online community as it stands. So this is on inflation. You have not complained much about inflation. How will that impact your trading and margins going forward?

Yes. As I said, we actually don't have a remarkable salary inflation. We have the normal salary increases as agreed with the unions like a normal way. But then in long term, it remains to be seen how the overall inflation reflects to the salaries next year or year to come. So nobody knows. But at the moment, we don't have that. All the -- almost all the salary increases are decision-based increases for the development of the business, increases in the volume on sales staff or increases in marketing. And I see the cost, of course, for the product development. That's the main source of cost increase in our case. But then there's a small increase in our case, the -- we have, of course, is quite a big increase of print and delivery costs, but it doesn't have that major impact on Alma level for other costs, while we have that small part of the business still or any more on offline business. Okay. That's it. Any further questions from here? If not, I want to thank you very much for your attention and interest. And next time, we'll meet. It should be here. Is it? Yes?

Overall, it's right. 20th October.

Yes. On Thursday, 20th October. It was nice to have you here. I wish you all a very nice week and lovely summer. Thank you very much.