AMA Group Limited (AMA) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Thank you for standing by, and welcome to the AMA Group 2022 Half Year Results Call [Operator Instructions] I would now like to hand the conference over to Carl Bizon, Group Chief Executive Officer, who is joined today by Darren Basford, Interim Chief Financial Officer; and Geoff Trumbull, Group Chief Financial Officer. Please go ahead.

Good morning, everyone. On behalf of the AMA Group, I would first like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of country throughout Australia and their connections to land, sea and community. We pay our respect to their elders past, present and emerging, and I extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples today. I am currently in Melbourne and would like to acknowledge the Bunurong people as the traditional owners of the country I'm joining you from today. Thank you for joining us as I present the AMA Group results for the half year ended 31st December 2021, which I'll refer to as first half '22. For those of you joining us via webcast, you should be able to view the presentation on screen. If you are joining us via teleconference, you should have access to our investor presentation via the ASX platform or our company website. I will begin by providing a summary of the first half '22 results and operational highlights. Darren Basford will then take you through the financial results of the business in greater detail, and I will finish off with a review of the outlook for the business before we open for questions. If you can now turn to Slide 6, please. It's fair to say that the first half '22 saw the most challenging conditions experienced since the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic, with both New South Wales and Victoria experiencing depressed mobility through much of the half. The group reported revenue and other income of $418.1 million, down from $435.1 million in the first half '21. Through proactive management and thanks to the hard work and dedication of our team, the group reported normalized EBITDAI of $4.2 million compared to $65.2 million in first half '21, reflecting the flow-through of decreased revenue, increased cost of raw materials and consumables and increased employee benefit expense as no grants were received from the Australian government in the period. During the half, we successfully completed a $150 million capital raising. Some of the proceeds were used to pay down $72.5 million in debt. This, combined with cost and cash control, saw us close the period with a cash balance of $81.3 million. Covenant testing will recommence in June 2022. The Board is committed to delivering shareholder value while maintaining the ability to invest in the growth of the business. As such, the Board has not declared an interim dividend for the first half '22. Now turning to Slide 7. COVID-19 continues to impact the volume of vehicle repairs through our network, and we experienced the lowest total repair volume since the onset of the pandemic during the half. The business took the opportunity during the operational trough to undertake a detailed network review. This led to the extended hibernation and consolidation of a few underperforming collision repair sites during the period. The leadership team focused on AMA Group as a great place to work. With our people front of mind, several key initiatives were developed during the period and will come to fruition in the second half of '22 and beyond. The establishment of the executive leadership team was completed during the half, ensuring the key skills, experience and talent are in place to execute the AMA Group strategy and to run a business of this scale. To Slide 8. In September, the group completed a $150 million capital raising, including a 1 for 2.8 pro rata nonrenounceable entitlement offer, which raised approximately $100 million and a $50 million senior unsecured convertible notes offer. Through the process, I was pleased with the support for the capital raising and the positive feedback on our strategy. Turning to Slide 9. We continue to work through our target metrics. And today, I present our key metrics for the first half '22. As always, the safety of every member of our team is paramount. With an ongoing focus on reducing operational harm, I'm pleased to report our group-wide LTIFR decreased from 5.14 to 4.22, a fantastic result. While we maintained fairly consistent repair and customer satisfaction metrics across the collision repair business during the half, our Supply business saw a significant jump in its Net Promoter Score. This was the result of outstanding commitment of our leadership and sales teams to meeting our customers' needs. Average repair days remained elevated during the half due to the continued supply chain disruptions delaying the receipt of parts, symptomatic of the impact COVID-19 is having on automotive parts supply. We are committed to quality and service and look forward to continuing to develop these metrics and focusing on the service we provide. Referring now to Slide 10 and some notes to the results. No government grants were received from the Australian government during the half and $0.5 million was received from the New Zealand government. This is also the dynamic for team management as employees in Australia have to be formally stood down in order to personally receive government support. The extended hibernation and consolidation of some underperforming collision repair sites during the period resulted in a $16.7 million in impairment related to these sites. With this background and context, I will now hand you over to Darren to take you through key financial information.

Thanks, Carl, and good morning. The financial results of the group for the 6 months to 31 December 2021, are set out on Slides 12 to 15 of the presentation. On Slide 12, you will see normalized EBITDAI for the half came in at approximately $4.2 million. This compared to a prior corresponding period result of $65.2 million, reflecting decreased revenue from reduced repair volumes, as Carl has already discussed. We also saw the effect of increased cost of raw materials and consumables as well as higher employee benefits expense as no JobKeeper subsidies were received from the Australian government during the half. As Carl mentioned earlier, following detailed network planning, several sites were placed in extended hibernation and 4 were closed. We have recognized a $16.7 million noncash impairment expense that primarily relates to these hibernated sites and closed sites, which includes $8.1 million against right-of-use assets in relation to leases and $8.4 million (sic) [ $8.6 million ] against leasehold improvements and plant and equipment no longer expected to generate an economic benefit. The group's summary financial position is set out on Slide 13. This remains strong despite the situational challenges we faced throughout the period. With substantial cash reserves of $81.3 million, the business is well positioned to manage the continued uncertainty created by the ongoing impacts of COVID-19. On Slide 14, you will note that the group's net debt position, excluding any deferred contingent vendor consideration, was $87.2 million. This significant reduction was largely due to the repayment of $72.5 million in debt out of the proceeds of the capital raising in September 2021. However, given the slower-than-expected recovery from COVID-19 in the third quarter 2022, subsequent to the end of the half year, the group has further renegotiated its financial covenants and net senior debt limit to amend the calculation for its next covenant test on 30 June 2022, and the amount of the net senior debt limit to reflect the delay in the return to more normal trading conditions. Cash flow for the group is set out on Slide 15. Key movements in cash for the period included the proceeds from the capital raising and repayment of $72.5 million of debt. Net operating cash outflows for the period reflect the ongoing challenging conditions caused by COVID-19 and the absence of government grants. I will now hand back to Carl to take you through the segment results and the strategy and outlook for the group.

Thank you, Darren. Please now turn to Slide 18. As we've already spoken to the key drivers of the results, I'll focus now on the operations in our vehicle collision repairs segment, Drive and Non-Drive. While it has been slower than we had hoped, repair volumes are expected to return as vehicle use normalizes. We have been focused on supporting our team through the challenging COVID-19 period, and so are well placed to respond as volumes do pick up. We will remain focused on cost control, including reducing indirect labor, improving vehicle pathing to reduce towing costs and focusing on the repair/replace balance. Adverse legacy contract impacts continue to be managed as we seek to be compensated fairly for the value created for our customers. Further, network planning to ensure our active sites reflect forecast volumes continues. And finally, revenue enhancement programs are underway, including additional private work. Now turning to Slide 19. While still subject to the same cost pressures as the Drive and Non-Drive businesses, Heavy Motor maintained positive momentum throughout COVID-19, thanks to the essential nature of trucks and buses and completed a significant New South Wales bus refurbishment program. The Heavy Motor team is solid and with a different skill set required and a slightly less competitive labor market and the forward workbook is strong. Turning now to Slide 20. As our Supply business is a key strategic focus, you will see that we have done a lot and continue to build out this strategy. Within our Supply business, recycling revenues remain strong. However, the previously held complete vehicle wreck insurer agreement has been canceled this quarter, which means there is approximately $6 million in revenue, which will not continue into the future. We are also reviewing the low-margin brokered sales business. Parallel imports improved with increased inventory and availability as we continue to build out range and expand our sourcing footprint. Pricing remains a focus here, with well-publicized increased supply chain costs being passed through with active price management. Further, as part of our commitment to recycling and parallel imports, we have increased the number and volume of SKUs carried, improving the breadth of service delivered to our customers. We have established a consumables business to service both internal and external customers. A one-off cost of $1.7 million was recorded to provision for excess inventory in this area. Similar to the collision repair side of the business, we have also conducted a network planning exercise in supply. This has seen a small Queanbeyan site exited during the half. The ACT is now serviced by increased deliveries from our Sydney facility, resulting in better service at a lower cost. Further, we have recently signed a lease for nearly 20,000 square meter facility in Somerton, Victoria. This will see consolidation of the existing 2 Victorian sites around midyear 2022 and an approximately 50% increase in our Victorian capacity. Now turning to Slide 22. As I've said previously, my immediate focus for the group is to drive the business through 3 key dimensions of value with everything we do underpinned by our team. I will talk to the progress we have made to date in greater detail over the coming slides. Now turning to Slide 23. As we have already covered the capital raising and cash and cost management, which tackle the most immediate impacts of COVID-19 pandemic on our business, I will move on to the more strategic elements of our current activities. While impossible to fully separate the effects of COVID-19 from the talent shortage and part supply issues, we are actively tackling these as individual challenges. Further, while current circumstances are tough, we remain focused on the future and continue to progress our strategy and our plans for the growth of the company. Turning to Slide 24. Starting now with procurement. Further to previous discussions on the business strategy during our capital raising, our enhanced focus on parts distribution has commenced with our Supply business signing a lease for a very large distribution center in the northern suburbs of Victoria. With the addition of this facility, our network capacity will be more than 40,000 square meters across Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane and Perth. This is the beginning of the evolution of our integrated path strategy as we focus on increasing and improving supply of both new and recycled mechanical and collision parts to our customers. Now to Slide 25. Turning to production. With the recent appointment of Jim Lynch as a dedicated and deeply experienced senior resource in procurement, we are already seeing the volume-based benefits in both direct and indirect purchasing that you would expect to see in a business of our scale. Approximately $10 million in annualized benefits have already been identified and are expected to be realized across calendar year '22. While we paused any acquisitions during the height of COVID-19-related lockdowns, we have spent the time network planning and have identified a number of potential acquisition opportunities in both collision repair and associated industries. We will update the market as and when any of these come to fruition. Finally, as repair volumes return, we will continue to manage our capacity in line with market forces. Now turning to Slide 26. Partnerships remain critical to our business. We will continue to work with our insurer partners, and we acknowledge the assistance provided by customers who have adjusted historic revenue mechanisms in light of the challenges experienced over recent times. We are pleased to note there has been broad recognition that historic pricing models are no longer appropriate in a COVID inflationary environment, and there is now more of a focus on pricing constructs, which provide fair compensation for the value created by the services we provide. Finally, I'm pleased to report that during the half, we successfully piloted the claims management services to further add value to our customers. This initiative is one way we intend to expand the value we offer our customers and diversify revenue in closely related areas. Turning to Slide 27. We know that our team underpins our success. We are committed to building better for our people and creating a great place to work. We asked our team what matters most to them and reflective of that, we are focused on the workplaces our teams operate from, their career opportunities, benefits and communication. During the half, we launched the AMA Way, our code of conduct. We have also created the Building Better program with some initiatives already rolled out. These include weekly opportunities to get people together over a meal or a snack, the introduction of a quarterly magazine and increased frequency of communications and soon we will launch the AMA Group employee share plan, gifting our people with shares so that they share ownership in our business. Turning to Slide 28. It is no secret that there is a skilled talent shortage in the collision repair industry as there is in a number of other industries. AMA Group is building the workforce of the future. As a former apprentice and training myself, I value this career pathway very highly. We know that apprentices are the next generation of leaders and skilled trades people, and we are committed to bringing in the best people and ensuring the best start to their careers in the industry. To this end, we had an intake of 71 apprentices in January 2022 and a target intake of 168 across the 2022 calendar year. A total of 317 apprentices in AMA Group at February '22 represents 10% of our collision repair team. This is an industry-leading statistic and one of which I'm incredibly proud. Now turning to Slide 29. While we train and grow apprentices, skilled migration is an important element of ensuring we can meet the needs of our business and our customers. Visa holders already represent 8% of AMA Group's workforce. Now with borders open to fully vaccinated visa holders, we already have a number of candidates identified and undertaking the visa process with additional promising candidates in advanced stages of the hiring process. Now to Slides 30 and 31. We now have a clear executive team structure, which brings a blend of skills, experience and depth, commensurate with the group's current and future potential. Today, we also announced the appointment of Caroline Waldron to the Board effective 1 March. Caroline's substantial experience as a Non-Executive Director, with a legal background, further strengthens the breadth, independence and diversity of the Board. Turning to Slide 32 now and our operational priorities. We are focused now on the progressive and strategically managed return of capacity as life hopefully returns to a more normal state. With the management team structure in place, it is now important that they find their operating rhythm and focus on the strategic priorities within their given area of the business. Through our trusted partnerships, we are focused on ensuring we have mutually beneficial customer contracting arrangements, which reflect the current operating environment. We will continue to pursue the realization of the benefits of best practice operations, maximization of the value derived from technology advancements available to our team and seeking growth opportunities. Further, we are committed to pursuing margin expansion and securing access to parts through the growth of our Supply business unit. Finally, and most crucial to the success of the business, we will continue our people focus and continue the ongoing effort to position AMA Group as a great place to work. Turning now to Slide 33 and the outlook. We had hoped to be in a more normal operating environment. However, we have continued to face COVID-19-related headwinds and as self-selected isolation, COVID-19 infections and exposure affect our teams and our customers. These elements combined to result in lower-than-normal repair volumes, which affect both site productivity and our ability to absorb fixed overheads. As you can see from the chart here, January repair volumes were lower than peak volumes in December and affected by the summer break and public holiday weekend. However, February volumes have continued to trend upwards. Importantly, current headwinds are situational and not structural. We continue to progress our strategy and address key issues facing the industry in parts and labor supply. And of course, we have a continued focus on both efficiency and cost management across the group. I remain optimistic about the future of AMA Group as COVID-19 cases turn downwards. I would like to take this opportunity to thank management and all our employees for their ongoing dedication and commitment to the business even in these challenging times. I will now address questions. Please note that you may submit your questions through the webcast facility.

[Operator Instructions] Your first question comes from Tim Plumbe from UBS.

Carl, I appreciate there's been a particularly challenging operating environment. And looking at that February, we are seeing the increase versus January. Can you maybe talk to those February volumes and how they compare to the February '19 volumes? How far down are we still?

Tim, February of this year is still lower than February of last year. So we are -- and I think the main difference is the engagement of both the 2 main markets for AMA in New South Wales and Victoria that wasn't there a year ago to the same level. So right now, we are still behind the numbers from February 12 months ago as a trend.

Yes. No. And -- I'm sorry, versus February, I mean, can you give us any sort of quantum. Are we kind of 25% below the volumes that we are experiencing in February '19? Are we 5% below? Are we 30% below?

I won't quantify that, Tim, other than to say it's lower.

Okay. Maybe could you talk about average pricing increases that you've managed to achieve on a per vehicle basis versus the average cost inflation per vehicle. How should we think about the GP per car?

In the 6 months to December, we've renewed probably half of our agreements across the business. And the amount of increase depends on the age of the agreement that was repriced. Obviously, if the agreement was a 12-month agreement, it was less substantive than an agreement that was a number of years old. But -- and without sort of getting into the sensitivities of the commercial arrangements with our customers, I would say to you that the results that we've achieved have been a fair outcome for both the company and for the insurers. And I think the insurers that we deal with are very interested in maintaining a strong repair network and are very aware of the sort of inflationary challenges that the industry faces, but also cognizant with their ability and their need to keep their own claims cost down to maintain their own competitiveness. But I would say to you that there has been some correction in the margins of some of those legacy contracts through the half. And over the next couple of years, anything that was, I guess, prior to COVID, would have been rinsed out of the business. So I would expect over the next 6 to 18 months that effectively the book of business that we have would have been repriced in a COVID-contemporary -- on a COVID-contemporary basis, if that makes sense.

Got it. And last question just about the parts supply chain 40,000 meter square capacity. Can you maybe run us through what sort of percentage of your parts business you think could flow through that facility? And maybe how we should be thinking about the medium-term opportunity in terms of cost-saving benefits from the parts side of things?

So Tim, we have an internal target, which I won't share with The Street, obviously. But we will continue to expand our internal participation in the supplier parts into our business. As I've mentioned before, we spend circa $350 million on parts on a normal annualized basis across the group. Any increase in participation of our own wholesale distribution business in the supply of those parts to our own stores is obviously margin accretive to the business. And I've said publicly that generally, wholesale margins sort of hover somewhere between maybe 20% and 50%, depending on the part and the amount of use that it has. So I'm quite optimistic that any investment in working capital in inventory in our own integrated parts supply business will be margin accretive to the group as a whole. So that is a clear strategy of ours to take advantage of the volumes that we purchase. There will always be a constraint to that, of course. The parts supply business is very complicated. There is a reliance on the OEMs and the dealer network for a substantial portion of our parts supply. But there is also a substantial opportunity for the group to direct source either recycled parts or aftermarket parts or parallel import parts to the benefit of our insurance partners who choose to work with us into the future and also to the benefit of AMA and its shareholders.

[Operator Instructions] We will now go to webcast questions.

We've just got a question here from [ Sam Street. ] Can you tell us more about the consumables business?

Sam, our consumable business is a subunit of our Supply business that direct sources the materials that we typically consume in a repair. So it's masking tape, masking film, sandpaper, abrasives, body filler and those sorts of things. So one of the benefits of our scale is that we direct source that product from manufacturers offshore. The bulk of our, if not all of our, competitors buy those products through wholesale distribution here in Australia. So we have a benefit of being able to direct source that. So that distribution margin is avoided by the AMA Group. It was something that was set up quite some time ago by one of my predecessors. And it is our intent to expand that business not only to obviously fully supply our own repair centers all the way from Drive through to Heavy Motor, but also to offer that as a product line to independent repairers in the Australian and New Zealand marketplace.

We have a follow-up phone question from Tim Plumbe from UBS.

Sorry, just 2 further questions from me. Just noting labor supply constraints, can you talk about what sort of salary increase you've had to implement on a like-for-like employee over the last kind of 12 months, Carl?

Tim, it's nothing substantial. I think where we are right now is we've attempted to mitigate some of that pressure. And I think whenever there is a supply constraint, there is a lot of pressure on lateral hires across the industry. And I think from our perspective, we've maintained a strong focus on our value proposition as an employer. And whilst we've seen wage pressures not out of kilter with CPI, there certainly hasn't been, in AMA's case, a mass wages breakout as we attempt to fund our way into retaining our staff. I mean, I think one of the challenges the repair industry has got, particularly as people open new sites, is that the labor availability is not there. People will attempt to poach other operator staff. But my clear understanding from the insurance network is they're not prepared to pay for that. So we get no compensation for it. So we're certainly reluctant to participate in an industry-wide wages breakout as everybody tries to laterally hire from each other in the industry. So we're seeing no extraordinary pressure. There are isolated instances where there has been demands made of us that we've resisted. Sometimes people leave, sometimes they stay, sometimes they leave and come back. I mean we've had a fair amount of that in the last 12 months. So I think AMA is attempting to keep a lid on wages pressure, knowing that ultimately, any pressure on costs in wages will not be recovered from our customers and is in effect not solving a problem.

Got it. And just in terms of your current workforce, what sort of volume uplift would that be able to service at the moment? Like how should we think about incremental hires that you would need to make as that volume comes back on board?

Look, I think right now, I think we're essentially still not at full productive capacity. We still have a number of sites that are hibernated. I've mentioned on a number of times that I think in a full demand situation that the industry, in my belief, is somewhere between 9% and 11% undercapacitized. That will continue to put pressure on skilled labor. But as I've mentioned before, we're doing our bit to improve and increase the skilled labor force in Australia through a very strong apprenticeship program, while simultaneously addressing the short-term needs by retaining our own staff and also increasing our overseas skilled migration program. So we've got a number of strategies in place. If I had to think about what would it look like maybe at full capacity, we could probably do with another 300-odd employees. I think our natural hire with our footprint is around 4,000, and we're sort of circa 3,700-ish at the moment. But in any business of this scale, you're always getting turnover. I mean, I think that's a natural part of life. But I think as the market returns to normal, I think the entire repair network, whether it's private or ourselves as the only public participant, could certainly deal with more staff to address the volume that's out there. And I think that's just a natural state of where things are across a number of industries at the moment.

Got it. And very last question for me. Just can you remind us how we're thinking about the synergy benefits that are there as a result of that Capital SMART acquisition? Obviously, volume dependent, but how should we think about the potential upside opportunity there?

So there, I mean, Tim, that -- the integration of Capital SMART is complete. There was $17 million worth of full run rate normal volume synergies that were identified prior to the acquisition. Those synergies are bifurcated between our own source consumables and the benefit of our purchasing power in our paint supply agreement with our major supplier. That was the limit of the synergies that were identified. And I'm pleased to report that the Capital SMART network of 53 sites has fully transitioned across to our own sourced consumables and our paint agreement. So those are in place. And obviously, they're limited by the reduced volumes being experienced in Capital SMART. And as volumes return, the full run rate benefit of those synergies will be realized.

[Operator Instructions] We do have a follow-up webcast question.

We've got a question here from Steve Johnson of Forager Funds Management. What sort of time lag is typical between traffic recovery and repair volumes?

Steve, it really depends on the time of year. We -- I think there's a bit of a difference between holiday traffic and commuter traffic. I would think as a rule of thumb, a couple of months would be a reasonable analysis. But again, we are observers of the trends rather than creators of the trends. So we're keenly watching traffic volumes return. And we know intuitively that as traffic volumes return and the total number of kilometers driven increase, that invariably leads to an increase in collisions. That increase in collisions means that we will share in our part of that increased volume in the ordinary course of events. So the -- certainly, the early-stage indicators of a return of volumes is seeing more cars on the road. Anecdotally, in Sydney and in Melbourne as our 2 biggest markets, we are seeing more cars on the road. That invariably leads to more collisions and that invariably leads to more work for us. There is no direct time-based correlation. It depends on the particular case of the policyholder and the insurer as to how and when they deal with that claim, whether the claim is drivable or not. So there's a number of factors that go into it. But I think if you thought about a couple of months, that would be a reasonable presumption I would think. Thanks, Steve.

And we've got another question from [ Samantha Street. ] What is the significance of the cancellation of the complete vehicle wreck agreement?

Significant. I mean I suppose if you're ACM Parts, it is significant. When we bought the ACM Parts business, it came with the benefit of a wreck purchase agreement that had in it various commercial conditions. And one of those conditions was the ability for the insurer to provide notice and to cancel that agreement, if it suited them. And that's clearly what happened. I mean, I think the market well knows that with the scarce availability of spare parts, the price of wrecks and salvage parts have gone up quite substantially. And I think pure commercial forces were at play. From our perspective, it means a guaranteed source of wrecks that we had post acquisition of ACM has now been canceled. We simply participate at the auctions like a lot of other recycle parts providers bidding on wrecks and pay the price that we're prepared to pay cognizant of the value that, that wreck would provide to both ACM and AMA's collision repair shops and the broader community -- the broader collision repair community. So significant, yes. Showstopper, no. We just simply joined the wider market in sourcing wrecks for internal consumption as a real participant in the industry does. Thanks, Sam.

We have a follow-up phone question from Tim Plumbe from UBS.

Sorry, Carl, I just wanted to do a follow-up from Sam's question. I mean is there a way to think about the gross profit that would be attached to that $6 million of revenue from the vehicle wreck insurer agreement?

There is. But ACM is a very small part of our business, Tim. So I think there are bigger opportunities for the group rather than focusing on the wreck supply agreement. So I think as we assess the recycling business strategically and operationally, it makes it clear that we now understand exactly where we stand in terms of supply. And I think whilst the acquisition of ACM, which was by far the smallest part of the Capital SMART and ACM acquisition from Suncorp, it was the beneficiary of that supply agreement and no doubt that was like an enhancement to the acquisition of ACM. But ultimately, the true value of ACM over time will be in a substantially increased role in the supply of recycled parts or aftermarket parts or parallel import parts to the group. So I don't like to use the word materiality. But it's -- is it substantial? No, it's not substantial. And ACM have a substantial amount of value to provide the group in line with our parts strategy that we've spoken about many times before.

We do have another webcast question.

This question comes from Akshay Chopra at Karara. Given labor costs are up as is some pricing, what is the net outcome for earnings as volumes normalize? Has the earnings power of the business lower or higher today on a per car basis or at an aggregate level?

I think you'd have to say, Akshay, that it's obviously improved as volumes return. I mean, I think the world knows that we are -- we have a very high level of fixed costs around our fixed operations. As volumes return, we will get the benefit of increased overhead absorption through greater volumes as well as the benefit of more contemporary pricing structures. So I think the earnings potential for the company will obviously be enhanced by the return of volume and the benefit of more contemporary pricing arrangements with our insurance partners that reflect the current cost of doing those repairs and the value that we create for our insurers.

Are there any further webcast questions at this time? There are no further questions. That does conclude our call. I'll hand back to Mr. Bizon for closing remarks.

I'd like to thank Darren Basford for his efforts over the last 6 months as he stepped into the role as our interim CFO, and I wish him all the best as he finishes up in about a week or so with the company. Thank you all for joining us today, and we'll now end the webcast. Thanks for participating.

Thank you. That does conclude our call for today. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.