Amara Raja Energy & Mobility Limited (500008) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Amara Raja Energy & Mobility Conference Call hosted by Nuvama Wealth Management. The conference call is to discuss recent developments on new energy business. [Operator Instructions] Please note this conference call is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Raghunandhan from Nuvama. Thank you, and over to you.

Thank you, Yashashri. Ladies and gentlemen, good evening, and thank you for joining us today. We thank the management of Amara Raja for providing us the opportunity to host the call. Congratulations to the management team for successful collaboration with one of the large and respected battery player in the world, Gotion, in the LFP space. From the management team, we have Mr. Vikramadithya Gourineni, Executive Director; New Energy Business; and Mr. Y. Delli Babu, Chief Financial Officer. I will hand over the call to Mr. Delli Babu for opening comments. Over to you, sir.

Thank you, Mr. Raghu. I thank all the participants for joining this call. This call is in specific to the technology licensing arrangement -- announcement that we have made recently with Gotion-InoBat-Batteries based in Slovakia. Now I request Mr. Vikram to give his opening remarks, and thereafter we will move to the Q&A.

Thanks, Delli, and thank you, Raghu and the Nuvama team for hosting this call. Let me just give a brief introduction. It's not exhaustive, so we're happy to entertain any questions thereafter. As Delli mentioned, we signed a technology -- comprehensive technology license agreement with GIB, Gotion-InoBat-Batteries. This is a subsidiary of Gotion High-Tech from China, that is a top 5 battery player in China and top 3 by LFP chemistry, top 10 in the world. The reason that we signed with -- let's start with Gotion High-Tech first. We're very impressed by their robust portfolio of LFP Chemistry, both on the prismatic and cylindrical form factors. Many players have the prismatic LFP chemistry and cells, but cylindrical is something we felt is something that not so many are doing well, and Gotion High-Tech is doing quite well. They have a very strong background of IP, supply chain also integrated from all parts of the battery value chain, and also having very strong OEM relationships with one of their major investors also being the Volkswagen Group. Now coming to GIB, this is a joint venture between Gotion High-Tech and a company that Amara Raja has also invested in, InoBat. We've participated in the Series B as well as Series B investments, and that gives us a little bit of comfort that there's a familiar face there. But why we're going through the European entity. We are quite comfortable with the fact...

Hello, sir. We are unable to hear you. Ladies and gentlemen, please stay connected while we reconnect the management line. We have the management team back on the call. Sir, please go ahead.

Sure, I apologize for that everyone. I think there's some network issues at our end, which is dialed in by the mobile phone. Where I left off, I believe, is talking about the European entity of Gotion-InoBat-Batteries and why we decided to route this transaction into the European entity rather than directly working with the Chinese entity. One of the things that GIB is doing at the moment is the -- they're calling as localization platform in which they are localizing not only cell production, but in the last two weeks they've announced several projects. Of course, the flagship project is being done in Slovakia with Gotion-InoBat with a 20-gigawatt hour Phase 1 of cell manufacturing. In addition to that, over the past 2 weeks or so, they've announced localization of various parts of the battery value chain in Morocco, in Nigeria, and talking about a few other projects as well. So, being an Indian player who wants some -- a bit of security in terms of supply, I think it makes a lot of sense to be not solely tied to Chinese supply chain, but also have access to other things. And of course, we have the opportunity, though it's not part of this scope of agreement, to collaborate further with Gotion and other parts of the battery value chain in the future. Coming to our India project now, we did announce earlier that there's going to be 16 gigawatt hour of manufacturing of cell capacity set up. We're still sticking to that number. Or maybe there could be an upside if, because of the Gotion product and a bit of faster uptake from the customers, we maybe even halve that number, though I don't want to give any guidance on that right now. This is a comprehensive agreement for cell technology, manufacturing know-how, a bit of supply chain linkage, and support on engineering side to help get the customer approvals on the cell and the packs. In addition to that, we have some broad export rights that allow us to sell the bulk of our solution worldwide. There are some reasonable restrictions on end-user application, which both sides feel is quite reasonable, and it's not going to make any major difference on our strategy. So whatever numbers that we earlier talked about, sales numbers, it largely remains intact. And of course, it can have an upside if there's a faster customer approval because of this product. And lastly, I'd like to stress that it's an agreement that has a period in which we have access to continuous improvements. We have access to some modifications and derivatives where, during the period, Gotion will be supporting us. And I think that's all I can think of right now, but of course, please hand it over to the questions, and happy to answer.

[Operator Instructions] We have our first question from the line of Kapil Singh from Nomura.

Congratulations for this tie-up. I just want to understand what is the key advantage according to you with this tie-up? Is it that you are able to do certain products now which you were not able to do earlier? Or is it that we will be able to do them at cost which were not possible earlier? If you could help us understand that. Given the context here, all of us understand that cost in China has seen a significant drop for LFP batteries. So, in terms of cost competitiveness if you could give your views as well.

Sure. I think just to clarify, with the products we make today, we only make packs, we don't have any cell know-how or cell manufacturing today. So this is enabling us with a pretty robust LFP product portfolio for cell making. So that product know-how is completely new to us. In terms of the pricing in the China market, we agree that there has been a pretty sharp drop. According to our partners and others we talked to in the region, we don't believe that this price drop is a sustained drop. There is going to be a glut of material availability right now. And we are waiting to see how the situation evolves. In terms of what is the advantage to us on cost, definitely on the CapEx deployment, we believe having a partner is going to lend itself to the significant advantage. We will probably be able to build out at a better rate per gigawatt hour than we initially planned for ourselves. Having access to the partner supply chain will give us preferential rates to allow us to also procure our raw material more effectively. And we also believe there is going to be some upside definitely on the way that -- on our conversion cost. There is a lot of upside in terms of the financial numbers when we are running our operations. But of course, final numbers not -- are yet to be seen.

Sure. So when can we expect a further update in terms of the CapEx plan? I assume that LFP requirements will be larger, right? So, what are the timelines for this? And also, for the customer orders, what could be the timelines for commencement of production and customer orders? If you could help us understand that also.

Kapil, as you know, as of now, we have committed the NMC 2 gigawatt hour. I think the initial capacity for LFP, while we are working on the final details, the initial capacity of LFP could be anywhere around 4 to 6 gigawatt hours to start with. Obviously, we need to firm up that and then take the congruence of our Board before we come back to you with the final details. I think in the next month or so, or maybe couple of months, we will work out these details in terms of what is the initial capacity that we should aim for and how much CapEx that it would entail to, and then what could be the ways to finance that in terms of CapEx. So, I think we just need maybe a month or 2 to come back to you with the final details. We will update you as and when we -- our Board verify those details and, I mean, give us a go ahead. As far as customer engagement is concerned, I'll let Vikram answer that part of your question.

Sure. So, we have been engaging with the customers already over the past year or so in terms of getting ourselves and getting cells into the market. We understand the requirements quite well. The customers that we are -- all of our customers have been responding to this news with a mix of optimism and curiosity. So we don't have an exact timeline on which we can bring the customer orders forward, but we do -- we can only share that from the customer point of view that the technology that we source is very credible. It's already seen good results in the Indian market. It's there in some of the top moving platforms already on the passenger vehicle side as well as 3-wheeler. So, we are optimistic, so no exact timeline can be given at this time.

We have our next question from the line of Raghunandhan from Nuvama.

Congratulations on the tie-up again. Sir, firstly, for the LFP cylindrical and prismatic, the capacity coming up with Gotion support, can you indicate the focus area, which categories and automotive, non-automotive segments will you be targeting? Also, can you talk a little about the royalty details, export opportunity for this particular partnership? And Gotion has some customer presence in India, like Tata Motors. Can Amara benefit from these tie-ups? Can Amara get business, say, something like Tata Motors?

This is time taking, but I may have to ask you to repeat some questions throughout. I lost a bit of track. But I think your first question was the end-user application that we're really targeting. We have a list of products that will be coming to market over the next, I think 5 years. And in Phase 1, we are targeting mainly into the mobility market. This is anything from your 2-wheeler, 3-wheeler passenger vehicle. So mobility would be the initial focus of the cells we're taking in Phase 1. And as we go into Phase 2, there are some other stationary applications. But I think I've stressed that because we don't make the cells, doesn't mean we won't have access to the cells and the ability to make packs and energy storage systems. So all applications will be catered to, only that our initial localization plan is a little bit more catered to mobility. I forgot a few of the questions that I believe that you asked about exports. Like I said, we have broad export rights across multiple applications. Mainly there are a couple of end-user applications that are restricted. And I think 2 things to keep in mind. We are adding anywhere from 16 to 20 gigawatt-hours over this period that we're talking about and at a time where the world is adding 2,000 gigawatt-hours. So it's not that even if we want to broadly export that we have so much opportunity, Indian market also requires, and there will be a shortage of capacity in the Indian market. And the partner also has facilities that they're building in other parts of the world. So, reasonable restrictions is what we can say, but still able to largely cater to the applications that Amara Raja performs just today. I can confirm that there is a mix of an upfront technology fee and a royalty component. So the numbers would be inappropriate to comment.

And the last part of the question was on Gotion's customer presence in India. And can Amara benefit from that?

Certainly, from the technology credibility of Gotion, I think we expect that there will be a benefit that's accruing to us. As for the existing customers, I mean, I can't comment specifically. It depends on the plan. One of the customers you mentioned, of course, has their own plan to get into cell manufacturing. I don't believe that's changed. We're open to talking to all OEM customers. And I guess only differentiator, we are offering a localized product with a defined timeline and roadmap. This is a non-exclusive arrangement. So, of course, that we will be looking -- we have those considerations.

Very helpful. Just a clarification. The 10 gigawatt-hour plan, ROE of 12%, 13% was expected when capacity reaches 8 to 10 gigawatt-hours, with optimal utilization, say, for the capacity. So, would this target remain despite payment of this royalty and technical fees?

Yes, Raghu. So, I think, as I mentioned in the earlier call also, I mean, with the learned partner on our side, as Vikram was mentioning, there will be advantages that we will see in terms of the CapEx cost. And also, I mean, if we are able to get the right supply chain access through this arrangement, I think we should be able to meet some of the cost targets that we have in our mind. Obviously, we have to keep in mind the recent price drop that someone has alluded in this call as well. So we still believe an ROC in that lowest double-digits is possible. But obviously, these are still, I would say, we are in the initial days. We are holding on to those targets and then we are trying to align ourselves to those numbers. But any correction in that, I'll have to come back to you and then update you on that. But right now, we believe that it's still possible.

Great, sir. And the total line parcel is 262 acres in Telangana, which allows, as you indicated, 16 gigawatt-hours in a 10-year timeframe. Can you indicate what could be the CapEx cost per gigawatt-hour? Assuming INR 600 crores per gigawatt-hour, is it fair to assume INR 9,600 crores investment at current prices? Also, if you can reiterate the investment plan for FY '25-'26?

As of now, at a 16 gigawatt-hour level, we are not attempting to change the numbers what we have earlier indicated to you. But as I mentioned earlier, there will be possibilities of some amount of savings in that. And if we were to bring better automated machines, which will help us in the conversion cost, then maybe those numbers might change here and there. But we still believe broadly the numbers what we have indicated will still be -- I mean, we'll be able to hold on to those numbers. But I think it is still too far away into the future. I am sure many opportunities will come in terms of saving, or maybe there could be higher CapEx that might be needed considering the changes that we will see in this segment. But we still believe we don't want to change the numbers that we have said earlier at this point of time.

[Operator Instructions] Next question is from the line of Ajox Frederick from Sundaram Mutual Fund.

Sir, what cell prices are you assuming for the lower double-digit ROCE expectations?

Yes, we are looking at -- in range between $70 to $75 over the next 5, 6 years, as sometime back Vikram was also alluding to. The current price range of about $60, $65. It may not be sustainable in the long run. Considering the current supply, there is too much supply on the raw material processing companies, which is where there is a sharp reduction in some of these metal prices. As demand stabilizes across economies, I'm sure there will be a challenge to continue to work on these numbers, and you must be knowing a lot of Chinese players working at these price ranges are not really making much money. So I believe for our projection sake, we looked at $70, $75 per kilowatt hour as a possible price range, but obviously we need to keep calibrating it to the realities of the market as we move ahead.

And the CapEx per gigawatt hour will be 600 to 650, that's the range we are looking at, right?

Things that we are trying to think about now, but as I mentioned earlier in the call, I think these numbers will be subjected to change as we firm up and negotiate, and then plant designs will, considering the inputs what we will get, plant designs also will change. I think as and when there are some changes around those numbers, we will definitely come back to you.

And sir, does it broadly differentiate between NMC and LFP, or that will be similar, CapEx requirement per gigawatt-hour?

It may not be significantly different between one another, but I would say it depends on the scale at which we are going to operate. For example, we believe NMC will stand for the Indian market at this point of time. We believe the 2 gigawatt-hour is good enough, but NMC will be on the cylindrical form factor, whereas LFP will have different form factors coming in. So, from a chemistry point of view, I don't think there could be a significant difference, but considering the size, NMC is only a 2 gigawatt-hour size, whereas LFP is larger capacity. There, per gigawatt-hour metric could vary.

Our next question is from Sonal Gupta from HSBC.

Yes. So, just -- the first question was around the PLI scheme that you also applied for. So, just wanted to check on the advanced cell chemistry. So, does this -- I mean like, will this LFP project qualify for that, or have you applied for an NMC project for PLI? I just wanted to understand.

The product portfolio that we would be bringing with this partnership, it does qualify within the PLI, and of course, awaiting the results of that.

Got it. And just the other question -- sorry, I got disconnected in between but one thing -- in the beginning, and one thing I caught towards the end was that you said that there will be a period for which the Gotion will be supporting you with improvements and modification. So, I just wanted to understand, I mean, is there a fixed period of some 5, 7 years? How does this work arrangement work?

Yes, see, as long as there will be the initial technology pass-through will happen for a certain period of time. So, considering the Indian requirements, if and when we need any minor tweakings or changes in the product, that Gotion has agreed to help us. So there is no tenure as such, but I think as and when only specific to the Indian market, if there is any requirements in terms of minor modifications, there we can rely on their existing capabilities.

Got it. But there is no end date to this royalty or, I mean, is royalty for a certain tenure or something?

Yes, obviously, all commercial proposals, we have an end date, not that I can share the specifics in this call, but we are assured of any more suitable modifications for the product to the Indian market. To that extent, definitely, there are provisions to carry out those improvements with the...

We have our next question from Vibhav Zutshi from JPMorgan.

Yes. Congratulations on the partnership. I think my first question is broadly on the industry, how you are seeing trends evolving, specifically your question that customers are in this -- with the mix of optimism and curiosity. The last couple of years, we have seen that some of the OEMs have announced making sales in-house, as well as partnering with some of the global suppliers. But now that you have this partnership and the cost advantages, is there some shift which is happening, in the sense that OEMs are more bending towards localization and tying up with you and your peers? I mean, how do you see the industry evolving between OEMs securing sales from pure-play manufacturers or doing it in-house?

I think it really depends OEM to OEMs. Globally, we have seen that there are OEMs from very beginning that have always outsourced cell in battery production. In China, I think that the norm is that all cells and [ battery] in fact are sourced directly from battery makers. In different parts of the world, you have large OEMs who have announced plans. Some have succeeded, some have not really gone ahead. So, for us, I think we are engaging with all and we are open to supporting with all we get if they want cells or packs or if they want to do it on their own, but I don't think there is any fixed model, but the market share globally for battery makers still rests largely with independent battery makers.

Got it. Just a bit more on the capacity timelines and CapEx. So, from what I understood, the initial 2 gigawatt-hour is NMC and then you are looking at 4 to 6 gigawatt-hour of LFP capacity within, say, the next 2, 2.5 years. The CapEx of which is going to be announced maybe in the next couple of months. And overall, your target is 16 gigawatt-hour for a total CapEx of INR 9,500 crores. Could you just tell what is tentatively the timeline for reaching 16 to 20 gigawatt-hour in the next 10 years? Is that a fair assumption?

Yes. I think as we have mentioned in the earlier call, we expect the overall demand for India could be in the range of 130 to 150 gigawatt-hour. Right now, while there are other opportunities that are emerging, I don't think we are attempting to change that number. And then that's how we affect our numbers to about 16 gigawatt-hour over a period of 8 to 10 years. That's the range we have visibility to, but obviously any capacity addition or fastening any capacity addition will only depend on clear market signals. These are certain, I would say, goalposts that we expect that the industry will emerge in that direction. But obviously, we have to be agile enough to change our plans according to how the demand scenarios increase.

Got it. And just last follow-up on this, just on the PLI scheme, could you just tell where the status is right now? Because I think there is still a bit of a delay. And also, what is the incentive in terms of benefit that one would get based on recent conversations?

As you know, it's a competitive bidding. We have all submitted our bids. I think the technical bid is yet to get open. We expect that might get opened in the next -- maybe a month or so. I think because of the recent elections and all, obviously it could have got a bit delayed. I think we expect the technical bid to get opened maybe in the next month and soon after the financial bid should be open. So maybe in a month or 2, we should know who will be winning that PLI. As far as the quantum of incentive is concerned, it again depends on the players, how much they have quoted, what kind of discounts they have given. I don't think this is the right time to gauge that numbers -- bid is announced.

We have our next question from the line of Mumuksh Mandlesha from Anand Rathi Institutional Equities.

Congratulations on the new partnership for the New Energy Business, sir. Sir, for 2-wheeler and 3-wheeler, will the NMC which we are working would be independently developed and there will be no technology partner as of now, sir?

Just for NMC, you are correct. We are going with a separate arrangement. As we mentioned in the past, there is a different partner we are working with and under co-development model. But just to correct you, we've communicated many times in the past that 2-wheeler is the application that would require NMC. More 3-wheeler today is predominant running on LFP.

Right. And so, going ahead, since our focus would be on LFP, sir, then because in NMC, as you mentioned, 2-wheeler is the major technology there. So, going ahead, the focus would be more on 4-wheeler segment, sir?

Can you repeat your question? Are you asking will NMC be our focus chemistry?

Yes. Because, sir, the LFP is mainly used in the 4-wheeler segment, right, while the 2-wheeler segment would require NMC technology. So, going ahead, the focus would be largely on the 4-wheeler segment, sir?

Yes, see, from a chemistry point of view, earlier also we have said that our belief is that LFP will occupy almost 75%, 80% of the overall requirements of the market and the NMC will be a smaller portion, considering the Indian requirements. And I think we are planning the capacities also in the same direction. So, while the applications could vary, I mean, as Vikram mentioned, NMC could be in the 2-wheeler side and LFPs could be on the larger vehicles as well as industrial storage requirements, et cetera.

Right, sir. Sir, Volkswagen and M&M also has a partnership for the self-sourcing. How do you see that opportunity for us, sir?

Sorry, can you repeat the question?

Sir, Volkswagen and M&M has a partnership for the self-sourcing, and since Volkswagen is a major holder in the Gotion, so how do you see that opportunity for us, sir?

I think like any OEM, we open the dialogue and see what's possible. I don't think that automatically opens the door for us because of any other engagements. But my understanding is that Mahindra will be buying the powertrain components from Volkswagen. It doesn't necessarily stop us from opening the door and attempting to sell cells separately.

We have our next question from the line of Aditya Jhawar from Investec.

Congratulations on the tech partnership. I understand that you mentioned that for CapEx, we'll get more clarity in the next couple of months. But in terms of your funding arrangement, what are the options on the table? So, since this partnership is rooted to European entities, is there an option of equity participation as well or like what are the other options of funding on the table, sir?

Aditya, at this point of time, there is no equity arrangement that we are contemplating. Obviously, as I mentioned in the earlier calls as well, this will be funded through our internal accruals as well as the appropriate equity and debt mix for this venture. Obviously, there are multiple options available to us considering our balance sheet strength in Amara Raja Energy & Mobility, and also the attractiveness of the segment from the investors' point of view as well. So, I think we will create a right equity to debt mix considering various other considerations that we have, and then we'll collect the appropriate funding structure. So, I don't think I'll be able to share much details around it at this point of time. Maybe in due course, we'll let you know.

Sir, the second question is on margin. So, post your discussions with Gotion and looking at the current cell prices and probably some different arrangement that would have taught the customer, how should we think about margin in both LFP and NMC as the capacity gets ramped up, EBITDA margin if you can throw some light?

Yes. So, I think at this point of time, as I mentioned earlier also, once we reach, let's say, 8 to 9 or maybe 10 megawatt hour is when we felt an operating margin level in the range of 11% to 12% is possible. Because we believe India, we can definitely meet the conversion cost targets in mind with any international player, whereas the material cost efficiency is something that we have to bank upon the experience and the access that our partner has. But considering these factors also, I don't think margins can go beyond that because going by the experience what we have seen within the established players in China, I don't think to expect anything beyond that will be right at this point of time. But I am sure as we scale up the operations, there may be additional opportunities that can come in and then at that time we can think about it. But even these numbers will have to be taken with a pinch of salt, and then we will have to find ways and means how to meet these targets. But going by whatever we have seen so far, this seems to be a reasonable target to work with.

Sure. As a final question, sir, is there exclusivity for both parties? So, can Gotion enter in partnership with any other company in India and can Amara Raja enter into partnership with any other tech company for LFP batteries?

So what I mentioned earlier, the agreement is likely non-exclusive, though maybe what I should have clarified, there are specific part numbers with which we have exclusivity in India, specific part numbers that we believe are going to be a unique product offering that we both agreed on exclusivity terms. Barring that, yes, we are both free to work with other people. And I think one thing I would add is, the portfolio that we are taking from Gotion is a fairly -- it's a pretty wide encompassing complete portfolio that I think covers the bulk of Indian market requirements. And while others may be free to license that technology, I think industrialization is the real key execution. And I believe Amara Raja definitely has the edge over other potential partners.

[Operator Instructions] We have our next question from the line of [ Abhishek Jain ] from AlfAccurate.

Sir, the company has taken 9% stake in InoBat. So what is your strategic plan for taking this stake? And what potential do you see in this business?

Yes. I think as we have mentioned earlier, InoBat is one of the partner in the cell factory that Gotion is setting up in the Slovakian country. And we have invested in InoBat about 2 years ago in their Series B. And they are also working on some high-powered cells which are used for eVTOL application and some fast cars, et cetera. So there are certain customers with which they are working. So while Gotion is more focused on the large volume products in LFP Chemistry, there are certain specialized products on which InoBat is working, and they are also working on the NMC Chemistry as well. So in that way, our initial talk with them was more towards the technology what they are also working on. So this will also do put in the door in the European ecosystem as well. And also this whole venture got facilitated through our relationships with InoBat as well. So right now, the idea is to engage with them as well with being participating in the Series B investment that they have proposed. That's about it. I think from here, what is the future and all, I think the businesses have to scale up and then at an appropriate time, we will take those on.

And sir, replacement demand of the lithium-ion batteries will come in the next 3 to 5 years, which would includes like INR 40,000 to INR 45,000 per vehicle in 2-wheeler side and INR 3 lakhs to INR 4 lakhs in the 4-wheeler side. So will it be catered by the OEMs only or it will be a big opportunity by companies like Amaron, Exide in the next 3 to 5 years?

I think as Vikram has explained in one of the earlier questions that world over the battery makers who are actually having the larger role to play as far as the batteries are concerned. And there are OEMs in India who are experts that they would like to have their own cell manufacturing facilities as well. But I think still we believe core battery manufacturers will have a larger share of the market, and they will play a key role by closely working with the automotive OEMs. That's how world over, things are happening, and we believe India may follow the same suit.

Okay. And my last question on that, as you said that the cost would be around $70 to $80 in the longer run. Is it including the battery packaging or it's only for the manufacturing?

At the cell level.

At the cell level. And what ROC would be if that would be 8 to 10 gigawatt of the scale?

As I mentioned in my earlier call also, I mean, this has to be calculated with a lot of riders. So we believe around 11% to 12% ROC is possible, but obviously much has to be learned and then achieved in the next 5 to 6 years for us to clearly say that yes, that is the possibility of the number. But this is our expectation, our target at this point of time. But as I mentioned earlier also, this has to be calculated with a lot of riders.

We'll take our next question from the line of Jeetendra Khatri from Tata Mutual Fund.

Yes, sir. I have this very broad question on the potential of lithium-ion as an industry. So do you think as a business model there is a chance of we being able to replicate the lead-acid model?

I'm sorry, his line is disconnected. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll take that as the last question for today. I now hand the conference over to management for closing comments. Over to you.

Thank you everybody for joining today. We generally just do these calls after the quarterly results are announced. So we felt this was significant. I'm sure you had a lot of questions and even after PR and all, we wouldn't have been able to answer all of them. Very deep and inquisitive questions, so we always appreciate the opportunity to reach out to you. I hope we've done our best to answer your questions, and look forward to maintaining the touch with all of you. That's all from my end. Thank you so much.

Thank you, sir. On behalf of Nuvama Wealth Management, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.