Amber Enterprises India Limited (AMBER.NS) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Q1 FY '26 Conference Call of Amber Enterprises India Limited. [Operator Instructions] Please note that your conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Jasbir Singh, Executive Chairman and CEO and Whole-Time Director of Amber Enterprises India Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Hello, and good morning. On the call today, I'm joined by Mr. Daljit Singh, our Managing Director; Mr. Sudhir Goyal, our Group CFO. We have uploaded quarterly presentation on the exchanges, and I hope everyone had an opportunity to go through the same. I'm pleased to report robust performance during the quarter, driven by growth in all the 3 divisions despite a challenging season for the room AC industry. The consolidated revenue grew by 44%, reaching to INR 3,449 crores for the quarter and operating EBITDA grew by 31% to INR 263 crores and PAT of INR 106 crores, recording a 42% growth over previous year. The operating EBITDA margin was impacted due to divisional mix and product mix. However, we expect the consolidated margins to be in the range of 8% to 9% by FY '26 end. Let me now take you through the divisional performances. On the Consumer Durable, this division continued the growth momentum in line with our earlier guidance of outpacing the industry for the year. The growth is driven by the following factors: a diversified product offering, adding wallet share in some customers, expanding component business, conversion of earlier gas charging customers into full ODM customers and robust growth in our commercial AC vertical. We also onboarded one more multinational customer in commercial AC vertical during quarter 1, which will contribute a decent growth in quarter 4 and thereafter. Further, we have signed a strategic cooperation agreement with GMCC, the largest compressor manufacturer of the world, ensuring compressor supplies for 3 years as per our plans. Based on our cooperation agreement, GMCC is expanding its capacities in India. This expansion will be operational by November of this year. We continue to remain optimistic about outperforming the RAC industry growth by a factor of 10% to 12% for the year, supported by our strong portfolio of finished goods and components to a diversified customer base. Additionally, on the washing machine front, quality control orders is getting implemented by October 2025 on this product. We are now revisiting the strategy, considering the CapEx required due to this quality control order of washing machines. Coming to Electronics division. The division continued the stellar growth trajectory, almost doubling the revenues to INR 766 crores, reflecting growth of 97% and resultant operating EBITDA of INR 49 crores with growth of 62%. The performance is driven by both printed circuit board assemblies and bare printed circuit board vertical spanning across the customer segments in consumer durables, hearable and wearable, telecom, automotive, energy meters and defense. On the strategic front, we have filed 2 applications under the electronic manufacturing component scheme, one for multilayer PCBs through Ascent Circuits of INR 990 crores to be spent over the span of the scheme. Second, HDI, high-density interface PCBs through Korea Circuit JV for INR 3,200 crores to be spent in phased manner over the scheme. The JV will cater to HDI and flex PCBs, bringing advanced technology in country, which so far has heavily relied on imports. And the buyback arrangement with Korea Circuits offers us early visibility on the revenue. On the strategic front, I'm pleased to share that IL JIN Electronics has signed 2 definitive agreements, one with Power-One Micro Systems, Bangalore; and second, Unitronics Israel, strengthening the industrial segment of the electronics portfolio. Talking about the Power-One first. It's prominent player in rapidly growing battery energy storage systems, solar inverter space, including on-grid, off-grid and hybrid solar inverters, EV chargers and industrial UPS catering to customers in large public sector units and large corporates. The Industrial segment complements to our well-spread portfolio of electronic division. From the financial standpoint, it's a debt-free company and clocked impressive EBITDA margin of 17% to 18% on the revenue base of approximately INR 245 crores in FY '25 and is expected to reach INR 325 crores in revenue in FY '26. This partnership enables the following: direct synergy to our Electronics division. It adds a portfolio of high-margin power electronics and energy sector modules. Given the multibillion-dollar TAM of this sector, it is highly scalable business. We shall be leveraging the group's purchasing power and also the capabilities of the component ecosystem such as printed circuit board assemblies, printed circuit board and sheet metal fabrication, enabling it to backward integrate and manufacture at scale. In Tranche 1, we will pay INR 262 crores plus a deferred consideration basis on FY '26 numbers. We expect the closure of this transaction within the next 15 to 20 days. Moving to Unitronics Israel. It's an Israel-based listed company and a prominent lead player offering comprehensive solutions in industrial automation and control systems such as programmable logical controllers, human machine interface, HMIs, PLCs integrated with HMIs, VFDs and software solutions. On the financial front, Unitronics command an impressive EBITDA margin profile of about 30% on the revenue base of approximately $57 million, deriving almost 95% of the business from U.S. and European region. Furthermore, it is a dividend-paying company, almost debt-free company and generating business ROCE of 60%. This partnership enables the following for us: entry into rapidly growing sector of industry automation and control systems, access to global markets like U.S. and Europe, expansion of Unitronics products in the Indian market, leveraging backward integration of printed circuit board assemblies and bare PCB boards and leveraging the purchasing power of the group. The total consideration converted into Indian rupee is expected to be around INR 403 crores for approximately 40.24% controlling stake. We plan to close the transaction in the next 60 to 75 days. To sum up, both the companies operate in fast-growing niches of industrial electronics applications, complementing with the strategy of strengthening the industrial portfolio and have rich margin profile, which will enhance the divisional profitability and returns. And these partnerships will augment the domestic manufacturing in the country aligned with Atmanirbhar Bharat vision. Both these add-ons balances volume and value play in our Electronics division. The Electronics division began by -- which began by addressing the shift from fixed speed to inverter air conditioners in 2018 and is now evolving into a full stack EMS company. It features printed circuit board assemblies vertical serving diverse customer segments and a bare printed circuit board vertical offering a range of products, including HDI Flex PCBs and substrates. Furthermore, the division has expanded its capabilities to include complete box-build products into multibillion-dollar power electronics, energy market and automation market for industrial applications. With all the add-ups, we intend to take Electronics division to $1 billion by next 3 years with target EBITDA of 11.5% to 12% range. Coming to Railway division. This division delivered a strong performance due to offtake in the metro projects. The division recorded revenue of INR 123 crores, registering strong growth of 29% and operating EBITDA of INR 22 crores, reflecting growth of 8%. On the expansion front, the construction is progressing well for Sidwal's greenfield facility for HVAC, pantry, doors and gangways and expected to commence operations by quarter 4 of financial year '26. With regards to Yujin Machinery joint venture, new facility for pantographs, driving gear couplers and brakes is to begin product trials by September of '25. Our data center products developed by this division have also started gaining traction. Special cooling products for missile launchers and other defense applications are also gaining traction and are expected to contribute meaningfully in the coming years. Backed by the strong order book and product portfolio expansion, we remain optimistic of doubling the division's revenue over next 2 financial years. Now let me hand over to Sudhir Goyal, our CFO, for financial highlights. Thank you.

Hello, everyone. Good morning. I'm pleased to report a strong performance for quarter 1 financial year '26. Let me first take you through the quarterly consolidated financial highlights. The consolidated revenue for quarter 1 '26 grew by 44% year-on-year to INR 3,449 crores compared to INR 2,401 crores in the same quarter last year and operating EBITDA increased to INR 263 crores for the quarter compared to INR 200 crores in quarter 1 financial year '25, reflecting a significant growth of 31% year-on-year. Please note, operating EBITDA is before impact of ESOP expenses and other nonoperating income and expenses. We recorded PAT of INR 106 crores, reflecting a growth of 42% year-on-year. Now let me take you through the divisional performance overview. Firstly, revenue and operating EBITDA. Details of the divisional performance are not comparable with published segmental results. The Consumer Durable division reported revenue of INR 2,560 crores in quarter 1 financial year '26 compared to INR 1,918 crores, reflecting a growth of 33% year-on-year despite the challenging season for RAC industry. Strong performance was achieved on the back of a strong product portfolio, including RAC and CAC and continued traction in component vertical. Operating EBITDA for the quarter increased by 28% year-on-year and stood at INR 192 crores compared to INR 150 crores in quarter 1 financial year '25. Coming to the Electronic division performance. The revenue for the quarter increased to INR 766 crores compared to INR 388 crores in the same quarter last year, reflecting a robust growth of 97% year-on-year. Operating EBITDA for the quarter increased by 62% year-on-year and stood at INR 49 crores compared to INR 30 crores in quarter 1 financial year '25. If we look at the performance of Ascent, it recorded a revenue of INR 100 crores in quarter 1 '26, highlighting a growth of 37% against quarter 1 financial year '25. Moving to Railway Systems and Defense divisional performance. The revenue for the quarter increased to INR 123 crores compared to INR 95 crores in quarter 1 financial year '25, reflecting a growth of 29% year-on-year and the resulting operating EBITDA of INR 22 crores, translating into a growth of 8% year-on-year. The business delivered strong performance, particularly in metro projects with a robust order book and an expanding product portfolio, we remain confident in doubling the division's revenue over the next 2 financial years. In summary, with all the key divisional performance strongly, consumer durable delivering robust growth driven by deepening customer engagement and traction in new categories, electronic continuing its strong growth in trajectory and the Railway Subsystem and Defense division portfolio expansion, the company is well positioned for a strong growth phase. This growth momentum, coupled with strategic actions like bare PCB expansion and inorganic growth is expected to drive significant growth and lead to a structural improvement in our margin profile over the coming years. Thank you. And now I request operator to please open the floor for the Q&A.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Dhruv Jain from AMBIT Capital.

Congratulations on a good set of numbers. Sir, first question on your opening remarks, you mentioned that you're looking at electronics business touching $1 billion revenue in the next 3 to 4 years. So just wanted to understand how much of it will be driven by acquisitions? How much by the bare PCB and PCBAs? And broadly, just want some color on how are you thinking about the individual scalability of these various components of the electronics segment? That's my first question.

Dhruv, thanks for the compliment. On Electronics division, see, it's a very big TAM today. If I tell you about -- the manufacturing footprint TAM of room air conditioning industry, that is about $5 billion today as a current year, right? But when we talk about PCB TAM, which is about $4 billion, PCBA is about $12 billion to $15 billion today under the $135 billion of electronics getting consumed in the country. Then we have added UPS inverter and battery storage space, which is another TAM of $4.75 billion. And plus, we have added VFD drives and HMIs and PLCs, which is about $6.5 billion TAM. So we've jumped into ocean on the addressable market side for the products which we are offering now in the electronics space. PCBA, PCB, the industrial parts of HMI and PLCs and drives and the UPS and battery energy storage. It's about $22 billion to $25 billion TAM. So I think looking into that whole number of today, going to next 3 to 4 years, this will be almost double. So out of that $1 billion achieving -- I think it's very much visible, the kind of customer profile which we have built. On a $1 billion kind of a thing, we should be about INR 2,200 crores or INR 2,500 crores in the PCB front by that time and largely driven by PCB applications and the industrial portfolio, which is HMI, PLCs and inverters plus the other one should be contributing around INR 1,300 crores to INR 1,400 crores by that time.

Okay. Okay. And sir, my second question is on the consumer durables vertical. So we have seen that Amber has significantly outperformed the industry in this quarter. And while you maintain that 10% to 12% outperformance for the full year, some -- I mean, some brands are talking about inventory buildup in the channel at this point of time. So do you see that your business in the durables segment sort of slows down in the second and third quarter given the fact that there is still some inventory in the system?

Dhruv, on the inventory numbers, generally, the inventories are 1.4 million to 1.5 million. That's the standard inventories which the industry carries on. But now the numbers which we have is about 2.5 million to 3 million. I mean different research reports are stating different numbers, but that is the inventory. So it's almost double the inventory what is normally kept by the brands because of the bad season or things. So what we are saying is that whatever the industry will be, normally, quarter 2 and quarter 3 are anyway the lean season for this industry. That's a historic trend in this -- quarter 1 and quarter 4 are the large quarters, which contributes about 65% of the revenue. I think depending on how the offtake will be in the festivities and in the quarter 3, that will define where the industry is going to head towards. And whatever the industry will head, if it is flattish, we expect that we should be about 15% growth level. If it is negative, we will outnumber that number. And if it is positive by 10%, we should be there because nobody can predict where the quarter 4 and how good or bad the season will be. But what I would like to tell all of you is that in last 25 years of my experience, we have seen 7 bad seasons. plus 2 COVID seasons, which were impacted in the March of 2020 and March of 2021. So we have witnessed the disruption because of bad season plus COVID, 9 years, 9 seasons out of 25. 25 years back, the industry was 0.5 million mark. Today, industry is 15 million mark. So despite of this, I would only request all of you not to see the room air conditioner stocks from a quarterly numbers. You will end up buying at a wrong quarter and selling at a wrong quarter. It is to be seen from a long-term perspective. One bad season is not an impediment for the longer-term outlook of this sector. It is very -- we are very bullish. We are very optimistic. I believe personally and my team also believes. And if you map the number of current households, the division of HNIs, middle class, lower middle class and BPL families, this complete curve is shifting in the next 5 years in the households. You can map the number. The number of 15 million should be about 35 million by 2030. So that talks about 2.5x kind of a thing for -- of course, there will be 1 or 2 bad seasons during the time. But on the longer outlook, we are very optimistic.

Can I squeeze in one small one?

Sorry to interrupt, sir. We request you to return to the question queue for follow-up questions as there are several participants waiting in for their turn. The next question is from the line of Praveen Sahay from Prabhudas Lilladher Capital.

Many congratulations on a good set of numbers. Sir, first question related to the consumer durable. And in the consumer durable, you had also an indication of a commercial AC. There is a good expansion. So is it possible to quantify like any indication how much of the contribution that has reached to? Second question is, sir, related to the acquisition of Power-One. If you can give a INR 50-odd crores of revenue bifurcation in terms of the product mix, where it's largely coming from?

So on the commercial AC front, we don't want to give a number because it keeps on changing, but it's growing pretty well. It has grown more than 40% for us because we've added product line. Now we can cater entire range from 3 tonnes to 17.5 tonnes, both in deductibles and the packaged parts. Plus we also added cassette air conditioners and tower air conditioners, which are add-on, and we are now launching 2 more products by quarter 4. So -- but it is growing pretty well. I think that's given us a good growth story for -- good add-on what we've done in the sector. On the Power-One front, on the Power-One, your second question, basically, we will not be able to give the whole bifurcation of this. What we have the number is that they are targeting INR 325 crores. Last year, it was INR 245 crores. So it's going on a good growth. Looking into the solar installations and the requirement for battery energy storage space, I think this company has a very big potential of growing almost more than 40% for next 3, 4 years.

Largely in the solar segment only, whether it's solar inverter or EV charger kind of...

Sorry to interrupt, sir. We request that you return to the question queue for follow-up as there are several participants waiting for their turn. Our next question is from the line of Vipraw Srivastava from PhillipCapital.

Yes. Just quickly, firstly, on the EMS industry. So obviously, the long-term growth trigger is there, and we remain bullish on that. But sir, for this year, FY '26, what kind of growth you are seeing? Should we continue with the quarter 1 run rate or you are seeing any ramp-up in the coming quarters for the Electronics division?

Well, see, in the Electronics division, largely right now, if you see the split, we are about 60%, 58% to 60% is still the consumer durable. And in consumer durable, the quarter 2 and quarter 3 are generally the lean seasons. So I don't think that we will be able to maintain this run rate of 100% growth for quarter 2. But on the overall year basis, yes, we are heading towards a very, very good growth because the automotive segment has started kicking in. Telecom has gained traction. Hearable wearable has gained traction. The smart meters is up and running. We believe that by year end, by year-end, we should be bringing the banking of consumer durable to as low as 45% and in the next 3 years to as low as 25%, while growing the other segments.

Got it, sir. Sir, second question quickly on the financials. So in the segmental breakup, the other unallocable expenditure has gone up. Reason for that? And secondly, why is the tax rate so high?

Other unallocable expenses has gone high.

Decline, sir, sorry, my bad.

Okay. So I think we'll talk on this separately. I need to check on this.

And sir, why is the tax rate so high 30%?

So since we have some MAT credit available with us, so in the main entity, we are still using the old regime of the taxation, which is 35%. And plus we are getting some additional benefit on the additional depreciation. So we are largely calculating our taxes based on the actual net cash outflow in taxes. So we will shift to the new regime once all that benefit has gone away.

The next question is from the line of Sonali from Jefferies.

A big congratulations to the team for such a stellar set of results. Sir, my first question is regarding the 2 applications that you have filed under ECMS, one worth about INR 10 billion, one worth about INR 32 billion via JV. Could you please help us understand the CapEx requirements for this over the period of next 5 to 6 years? And also how much of that do you expect to be subsidized from both the central and the state government? So in and I want to understand what's our CapEx outlook for FY '26, '27?

Thank you, Sonali. Basically, on the 2 applications, first one is Ascent Circuits, we filed INR 990 crores to be spent over a period of scheme, out of which the first phase we've already announced last year, INR 650 crores, which is getting implemented and executed this year at new facility in Hosur. Second is -- the remaining portion of that, we will be investing after 3 years. Second application we have filed is the joint venture with the Korea Circuits, which is INR 3,200 crores. In that, the first phase will be INR 1,200 crores in the very first year, which will be -- we expect that the scheme, the announcements of -- the approval from the applications filed will be done by maximum October or November by government and then 15 more months for start of production. So the real, I think, output -- tangible output from this new JV will start coming in maybe quarter 4 of FY '27. And this is -- the first phase is INR 1,200 crores. Then after 2 years, another INR 1,200 crores. And then last year, which is about fifth year, will be another remaining portion. Now coming to the incentive scheme. In HDI, 48% will be given back by the Ministry of Electronics and IT. And we have negotiated 42% of the incentives by the state governments, which is to be reimbursed over a period of the scheme. So nutshell, but there is a catch here. The MeitY scheme is only applicable on the plant and machinery. The state government schemes are available only on building, plant and machinery. So on a net basis, if you will see, we will be able to get back almost about 70% of the net invested capital. But this is not a pari passu scheme. First, we will have to arrange funds and organize and implement, execute and then apply for this. Out of 48% from IT, 25% is the capital subsidy, which will be given after the start of commercial production. And remaining 23% is to be spread like it's a hybrid of top line incentive and employee-linked incentive. It's a hybrid of TLI and ELI, which will be given in a span of 6 years. And so are the cases with the state governments. Their incentive also starts from third year and spreading into next 5 years. So that's how we will get about 70% back.

Sir, that's very clear. Sir, so is it fair to understand that per annum over at least the next 2 years, our CapEx in our consolidated balance sheet could be about INR 5 billion to INR 7 billion per annum and not more than that?

If you see on the net CapEx side, I think it will be a little more because INR 650 crores is being spent this year in Ascent, then we are putting up INR 150 crores out of the INR 350 crores announced in the Railway division. And then there is a further expansion of the Sri City plant in this. And then Korean JV -- Korea Circuit JV, we'll be buying the land piece in this financial year. So this all CapEx will come here. And the remaining portion of the Korea Circuit JV will come to next year.

Understood. Got it. And just one last question. What is the reason for the decline in the margins in railways because last year's base was low, which is why we are checking.

So this is basically because of the product mix because metro, we have sold more in metro little -- we have a little less margins in the metro. In railway, we have a little more. But nothing changes on the outlook of Sidwal for the financial year. You have seen these margins getting dipped because of commodity issues and because of the product mix. And even our bus air conditioning division is a little bit at a less margin, but whereas our defense is at a high margin. So generally, in quarter 4, defense, our AMC business and our railway business is more. And that's what brings the whole margin of Railway division back to 20% plus range.

The next question is from the line of Nirransh Jain from BNP Paribas.

Congratulations again. Sir, my first question is on the double-digit margin guidance for the Electronics division by next year. So is it fair to understand that this would primarily come from the uptick in the Ascent's new facility and the consolidation of the 2 acquired entities for whose benefit we might start seeing from third quarter this year itself? And also wanted to check on the Power-One margin guidance. So till FY '24 on the reported financials, the margins used to be in the range of 7% to 8%. So what is leading to the 17% to 18% guidance on the Power-One Micro Systems?

On the Electronics margin guidance, you see, I'll just take you all through the journey of electronics, which is very important for all of you to understand. when we acquired IL JIN, this was a INR 300 crore company manufacturing printed circuit board assemblies for LG and IFB with 2.8% EBITDA. So this was what we started and inherited. For first 3 years, we were very focused in air conditioners and refrigerators and washing machine space. By 2021, the company grew to INR 500 crores and the margins went to 4%. We were struggling to see that why we have not been able to cross 8%, 9% of the range. And then we realized that we need to balance the volume and the value play. So the large part of the printed circuit board assembly, if you want to be in the highest range of the margins, you need to be in the defense and aerospace. Now that is a high entry barrier business, very sticky business. Net working capital days are a little stretched in that business, but margin profile is very good. Second comes the industrials which is again in the range of 15% to 20%. Now industrial itself is a very big ocean. You can divide it into the power electronics part like Power-One products, starting from UPS, battery energy storage space, you can divide it into HMI, PLCs, automation-related products. Even the smart meters comes into that. Even railway signaling also comes under industrial. So these are large portions, which are in the range of 15% to 20%. Again, high entry barriers, sticky businesses, little net working capital stretched, but good decent ROCs. Third comes is the medical sector, which is again 12% to 14% range. Then comes the automobile sector. Automobile can be further divided into 4 categories: EV, non-EV, 2-wheeler, 4-wheeler. With 2-wheeler non-EV, which is like a high-volume business, it's about 7%. But if you can go for 4-wheeler EV, you can make about 8%, 9%. Then comes the telecom, then comes hearable wearable and lowest is the consumer durable and appliances. So when we realize this that we are not doing anything wrong, if we continue to be in consumer durable, our margins will be in the range of 4%, 4.5% range. But we have to balance the volume and value play. That's where the strategy of bringing new applications started. 2022, we added hearable wearable. '23, we added automobile. '24, we added smart meters and defense. And now we have added defense -- this industrial applications by inorganic growth. So we are taking gradual steps, careful steps, bringing portfolio very cautiously. And then we backward integrated it into PCB to give more solutions and increasing our TAM while being focused in the electronic space, which is into PCB sector, which is a business of 15% to 20% range, depending on what kind of PCB you deliver. So this is our journey, and that's why we are confident that we will be able to deliver you double-digit number by next year. And on the Power-One margins, I think, Sudhir, I'll ask Sudhir to answer that.

Yes. So on the Power-One, if you see their declared results of financial year '24, they used to give their sales revenue, including the GST. And GST gets adjusted in the notes to the accounts. So if you eliminate that, then it is around 9% to 10% plus there is some more salary they used to take, which is not maintainable after this transaction. So they normally draw the larger salary during the -- before the transaction. So that will become a maintainable salary, and that will bring the EBITDA level to around 17% to 18%.

Sure, sir. And sir, lastly, on the funding plans. So out of INR 4,200 crores CapEx plus another INR 700 crores, INR 800 crores outlay for the acquisitions. So how are we looking at the current funding plans, especially for the time gap before we start receiving the subsidies?

Well, you must have seen that we filed an enabling resolution to our -- for the AGM for INR 2,500 crores of QIP. And our AGM is on 11th of August, and we believe that after the clearance, that is one portion -- one direction we can take. Second direction is a lot of private equity funds who are chasing to invest in the electronic division. And that could be the second portion to begin with. So we will see we'll take a right step at the right time, and we'll keep you updated as any event happens.

The next question is from the line of Keshav Lahoti from HDFC Securities.

I wanted to get a sense how is your RAC component mix right now?

It keeps on varying RAC components and the finished goods because we don't define the demand side from the customers. We give solutions to whatever is demanded to us. Sometimes, it is 60-40, sometimes it is reverse, 40-60. So very difficult to predict and even give the number.

Understood. Got it. And sir, last question on the Unitron. What sort of growth you are looking for next 2 to 3 years?

Well, whenever we've acquired the companies in last 7 acquisitions, which we have done, our trend is that for first 6 quarters, which is about 18 months, we generally get into the company, we integrate our systems, our cultures, we understand the company and the possibilities and then drive the growth from there onwards. So I believe currently, situation in Israel, they have just moved out of the war. There are still tariff issues happening. So I believe it will be going muted this year while maintaining their EBITDA margins -- and -- but yes, the very big TAM, they don't have presence in India. We've already hired a very dedicated team for bringing those products in India. India itself has a $6.5 billion total addressable market for the products of Unitronics. And secondly is the backward integration in the printed circuit board assembly and PCB. These 2 things we will start early, but larger tangible output of the growth, you will see after about 6 quarters.

Understood. Got it. Just a follow-up on this, but the Power-One is a different case. That way will continue to grow by whatever upwards of 40% from acquisition only, what I understand.

Yes. Power-One is a growing company. It is -- they have all the required eligible criteria for participating in the government tenders. Their customer profile is very niche like Power Grid Corporation of India, BEML, BHEL, NTPCL, all of them and the large solar installations. So I believe that they will continue to grow in about 40% range.

Our next question is from the line of Mr. Achal Lohade from Nuvama Institutional Equities.

Congratulations for fabulous growth. Sir, just on the margin part for the consumer durables, if you could give us some sense; for the quarter, we have seen a substantial revenue growth, but actually a margin contraction. So if you could explain for the first quarter and also give us some sense about the direction just the way you kind of highlighted for electronics business?