American Tower Corporation (AMT) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon. Good Evening. Welcome to continuation day 1 at the European TMT Conference. It's my great pleasure to welcome back American Tower and Olivier Puech, the President of Latin America and EMEA for American Tower. Welcome.

Thank you, Simon. Thanks for having me.

Great. Great to be here. So for important disclosures, please see the Morgan Stanley Research Disclosure website at www.morganstanley.com/researchdisclosures. There's also an ability to ask questions via the web portal. So feel free to do that. We'll get to your questions as we get an opportunity. So yes, it's been a strong year for American Tower. The international portfolios have been performing well. And we're looking now at Europe growing faster than the U.S. So perhaps you could just talk about how each of the regions you're responsible for are trending as we head into 2022?

Sure. Simon, thanks for the question, and welcome everyone to this webcast. As you said, I think 2021 in spite of everything, if you look at this kind of the COVID backdrop and everything we've been going through those past 18 months. I think the telecom sector has been somehow spared from the worst of the crisis. And this is true also for international. So whether you're talking Africa, Europe or Latin America, in spite of some of those regions being hit very hard by COVID Latin America, for instance, with big lockdowns. We've been able -- I think the industry has been able to work and to operate in a way which has been very favorable. So we've seen a lot of good leasing activity across the 3 regions. I think we guided -- The Street recently in terms of organic tenant billing growth with the number of each region, so north of 7% for Latin America and north of 8% for Africa and north of 5% for Europe, which is very solid numbers when you look at kind of the history and the trends in those markets, in particular in Europe, as you say, where we see some renewed activity and growth linked by many factors, maybe to start with Europe. First of all, the continued activity to deploy 4G and densify networks in most of the markets. But that has a lot to do with, I would say, the push from the regulators, the government towards the MNO to make sure that there's a real improvement further in terms of coverage, especially for suburban and rural areas. There is this new deal in France, for instance, proved by President Macron, which has been very favorable to the industry to accelerate more deployments in the market, the same in Germany from the German regulator. And we see that quite everywhere across Europe. So that's one side, I'd say, the growth. The second piece is 5G. So 5G is also coming to Europe like the U.S., and we've seen a lot of activities first on the auctions or new spectrum in the market. The arrival of new players as well in some market in case of Germany. So we see also and we foresee a lot of activities around 5G deployments in the different European markets. Regarding the other 2 regions, I think it's a more traditional and steady growth on 4G technology across different shape and form will say, of course, you have organic growth on the existing infrastructure from the different players in the industry. There's a lot of BTS activity as well. So which has been kind of a surprise given again the COVID environment were leaving operationally to see that there's been a lot of demand from the carriers across the planet in terms of BTS activities. So places like India, Africa, LatAm, we've seen record level of activities in BTS. Well, in my region, we'll probably end up around 2,500 new BTSs for 2021 alone. And a big chunk of that being in Africa, of course, but also a positive on and Latin America. And then we've seen the regulator and the government, in general, supporting kind of this transition out of COVID for most of the market, most of the MNO being more flexible in terms of spectrum allocation, auction and some of the regulations around permitting as well, which has been helpful to the industry. So all in all, yes, I think a positive year and a positive forecast and optimism, I would say, for us also moving into 2022.

Right. And Obviously, one of the big events for you was the Telxius transaction, and that hits a lot of those growth factors. So perhaps you could just update us on where you stand on the integration, the opportunities that, that presents for the company?

Yes, sure, may just maybe a little bit of background on this one because I get a lot of questions why you were not more aggressive in Europe before why now, why Telxius with Telefonica. As you know, you know a company very well, Simon, it's all about kind of the discipline in terms of capital allocation, the right timing, the right place with the right, I mean, of course, Telefónica being one of the key players, not only in Europe, but globally that was certainly a factor for us in considering this acquisition, which is really a strategic partnership with Telefónica. We have a very long history of dealing with Telefónica in Latin America. We did many, many transactions across the 8 markets where we operate with Telefónica over the past 15 years. So this 1 in Europe and in LatAm was a good complement, I would say, of the history we have with the Telefonica. The quality of the assets was the other one. When we do a due diligence, you can imagine. We have a solo analysis of the assets in the different markets where they are. So this was important. There was good growth potential, definitely from the locations of assets, the quite the profile of markets where those assets were in particular in Europe. And I think what you can see in Europe is the realization now that this was probably the right timing as well with this growth coming from 5G and accelerated 4G deployment in particular in Germany and Spain, which are the 2 markets that Telxius have had portfolio. So very happy with the integration. Very transparent and speedy partnership, I would say, with Telefónica on integrating the assets or integrating the people were new to space. So we have to integrate a new team coming from Telxius as well. and working closely with Telefónica on their deployment and the growth in both markets.

Great. Great. And -- If we can talk about the long-term growth trajectory, the company gave '20 guidance out through 2027. And noted, I think that international markets would grow at least 200 basis points faster than domestic than U.S. in terms of domestic -- in organic tenant billings growth. So it sounds like you think that there's good duration to this. Is that from the Latin America, the Africa is moving to 5G and kind of starting to see an acceleration there? What are the things you look for over that medium term?

So it's a combination, Simon, when you look at FFO per share growth of 10% and the guidance we gave, I mean it's -- of course, it's a cocktail right, of organic growth, BTS activity, accretive M&A, even share buybacks. So in terms of organic growth and BTS, I mean, definitely, I think we see multiple opportunities. 4G, You look at LatAm and Africa, we see markets with double-digit growth this year are like Nigeria and Colombia. So some of the markets that are clearly now at their full potential in terms of growth. The BTS activity I mentioned kind of the numbers that we see for this year. Europe will be a factor in BTS, we think, by the way, moving forward. We have a big commitment to Telefónica as part of the Telcel deal to build new sites, in particular in Germany and also in Brazil. There will be more coming. There are new operators like the new 1 in Germany, for instance, that we probably need to deploy by also building. So -- so yes, I think it's a combo of those different elements that support, we think, this 200 basis point difference in terms of growth versus the U.S. moving forward.

Right. And on the BTS, it certainly sounds like momentum is good there. Talk about the initial yields you're expecting there? And are these in locations where you think there's the -- it's traditional lease-up opportunity?

Yes. So it's a combination of having the operational expertise to minimize the cost of the build-out of those sites and at the same time, maximizing the lease of potential of those sites. It's especially good in Africa and in Latin America, in particular, where the deficit of infrastructure is such that the location and the partnership with the MNOs is, I would say, the location are kind of ideal for those kind of sites. We expect the same with Europe, in particular, driven by 5G. So we think it's going to be about speed to market a lot our capability to drive permitting, zoning and having the right skill set in place in the markets to do that. That's for the BTS part. I mean in Europe, of course, having a portfolio that is dense and urban will support colocation on existing portfolio more than BTS as it will be probably a mix of both in the case of Europe.

Great. And just on that point, what are you seeing in terms of build costs and supply chain given we've seen cost of steel and other components are going up here? How do you manage that risk?

Look, I mean, surprisingly, this is a sector that has been spared somehow from this massive supply chain hiccups that we see everywhere and everything. I think it's a combination of the MNOs and their suppliers/partners anticipate relatively well the demand. I mean we cooperate very closely to -- with the OEM manufacturers. And we see good support in terms of supply from the traditional OEM players for the MNOs, for instance. The same kind of fiber deployment where supply is there as well. So we haven't seen, I would say, a major issue there, including diesel in the case of diesel generators in Africa and India, for instance. So so far, so good, we don't foresee and we have not seen a major disruption in the supply and the operations.

Okay. Great. And American Tower made a large acquisition of CoreSite on Monday, announced the big data center deal there. CoreSite's obviously U.S. focused at the moment, but it did sound like Tom and the team are focused on potential international expansion. So whilst it's not initially in your focus area, but how do you think about the edge opportunities for American Tower in Europe and beyond over the next 5 years?

Yes. We certainly hope that the same applies to Europe. As you said, this is a kind of U.S.-centric forecast for the time being. This company comes. It's a very healthy, I would say, profile of company as a stand-alone acquisition already in the U.S. It comes also with a very experienced team of people. By the way, we did not not have this in-house in terms of data center. And that's so forth is mobile edge story that we see a looming in the U.S. in the next 3 to 5 years and the role that the cloud players and cloud technology, in particular, is going to play. So how do we link if you want this kind of world with core data center to the mobile edge in the next 3 to 5 years, we believe that this acquisition gives us a seat at the table, if you want with scale at least starting with the U.S. to play in this environment. What does it mean for the rest of the world? I mean you're probably right, I think that Europe could be next. But we're primarily at our company. I think it's important to say or repeat this, particularly in my regions, there's just plenty of opportunities, whether it's new portfolio, new market, more cooperation with the traditional MNOs, in particular in Europe. And this is where my focus and my team's focus is going to be probably for the next 2, 3 years.

Okay. Great. And maybe digging a little bit more into Europe. Just how are you seeing the German market that you've got drillers building out? What's the kind of the growth, the kind of most -- the fastest period? Is that a 2, 3-year build out? And what's the -- how much of your growth do you think will be amendments versus colocations versus BTS coming out of that market?

Well, we've already seen very kind of positive TBG trends in Germany today. So without drilling or without the addition of a new actor or tenant in the market. We're pretty bullish on Europe in TBG and growth in general, particularly in Germany moving forward. Because of medicines. I mean, custom 4G densification that is happening for all the players or also for Vodafone, Deutsche Telekom and Telefónica. The arrival, as you say, of one-on-one. They need to build a new network. So they will have to do that, I guess, by both building and colocating on existing infrastructure. There are several players in Germany proposing that as Vantage and DFMG. And so that will be an option for them. I think the regulator and the German government is also pushing for more competition and a fast pace. So yes, it's probably 3 to 5 years, I would say, environment, which is very supportive, not only for the new entrant, but also for the other markets -- the other players to accelerate the deployment. So we we're very optimistic regarding Germany moving forward.

Great. And 1 of the aspects of the Telxius portfolio is rooftops. Can you talk a little bit about how you view rooftops versus macro towers?

Yes. So in Germany, in particular, the regulations are really stringent in terms of permitting and zoning and so on. You're talking about 5G, you're talking about densification in highly urban areas, Europe is urban and much more than the U.S., which is more suburban. So having an existing portfolio, in particular of rooftop is important. Of course, part of the due division for us was to make sure that we move up our usable and leasable to both Telefónica for amendments and for new players. So I think in terms of the size of the portfolio to the portfolio of rooftop in the market where the operators have to deploy first 5G in the next 2 to 3 years is going to be important for us. And having this infrastructure already existing in the market is going to be a big advantage in terms of speed to market versus having to build a new one and getting the permit in to.

Great. And how do you think about escalators in Europe as inflation moves up? We don't know whether it's transitory or not, a lot of your emerging market leases have CPI-type escalators. What's the general outlook here?

It is the same in most of Europe for us, Simon. So it is broadly CPI-based carrier, not fixed carrier, like were in the U.S., for instance. So it is softening, if you want, the impact of potentially inflationary pressure that we see right now around the globe. We have some contracts with most of the secured base.

Okay. But you don't have a lot of input cost inflation, presumably your ground leases are long-term fixed price is good. And then, obviously, Spain has become a big market. What are the other -- after Germany, the other markets that you really have us focus on in terms of driving your European portfolio for it?

So today, we are in a significant presence in 3 markets: Germany, France and Spain, especially in Spain and Germany since the portfolio was in those 2 markets. We have a very small presence in Poland. So traditionally, I would say, we like to build from where we are. So we'll continue to look in those 3 markets. If we can, from an antitrust standpoint, to continue to build scale in Spain, Germany and France. And then we look at the other markets. This is going to be more opportunistic driven. There's a lot of buzz around potential consolidation in Europe. Of course, you have 3 big captive towercos there. So we'll be open for business. I think that's the message. I'm very trusted. We also have partners in Europe. So the fact that we brought on board 2 new partners with CDPQ and Alliance is not only a financial play. It's clearly an alignment of strategic vision and objectives. So those guys have deep experience either in Europe, being a European player, case of Alliance or in the telecom industry, both for CDPQ and Alliance, same with PGGM, by the way. So this is a kind of a long-term play so that we can continue to grow together with those guys in the tower industry in Europe. And I see you'll see more of that moving forward, hopefully.

And I think that was something that was made clear on Monday is just because of this core site deal that doesn't preclude other the ability for the company to make other acquisitions in global tower markets?

Exactly. And it's one of the reason is the fact that we are keen to continue playing with the existing partners or to bring new platforms on board. They could be opportunities and circumstances where some other companies are willing to join us. Some of the M&A also moving forward, in particular, in Europe might not be kind of the traditional M&A with a complete divestment from a seller. So there may be some minority, majority stakes that also makes sense in terms of further partnership with broader MNOs, and we look at that as being one of the options as well.

On that, I seem to recall that you generally want a control or a path to control in any deal. Is that correct?

Yes.

Okay. Great. And I'm not sure if you have a perspective on this. But in the U.S., you may know that the FAA is calling on the carriers to delay C band deployment as they sort out some of the potential interference rules with altimeters, about C band. A lot of European markets have already auctioned off the spectrum and some of it's being deployed. Have you seen any of the carriers look to maybe move stuff away from airports or deploy different antenna heights or anything, anything to kind of address interference concerns in -- around European markets?

Not really, Simon. We haven't seen that as being a kind of a consistent issue, a massive issue across the different markets. So there might be here and there, some potential restrictions that may not be.

Okay. Yes, because I think the CTIA and others are making the point that there's 30 or 40 markets already where the spectrum is deployed. Okay. maybe we could turn to Latin America then. And I mean you talked about how the markets are continuing to invest even through the pandemic way. In Brazil, we've had a -- just had the 5G auction. So what the way restructuring should be finalizing here pretty soon. So does that set the stage for a pretty robust leasing cycle?

I think Brazil is going to be interesting. I mean you have sizable population to 20 million people. You have, I think, also a super commodity cycle happening in supportive of some probably faster growth or rebound in Latin America, we hope moving forward. And Brazil is one of them to probably benefit from that moving forward. The consolidation around the 3 major players in Telecom Italia is -- it's probably good for the industry in the sense that you will have bigger, more robust players committed to long-term strategically to the Brazilian market. This has been a record 5G auction in terms of blocks and spectrum in Latin America. It's the highest and biggest 1 ever. There are commitments there will be some flexibility from the regulated government in terms of the deployment, especially in 2022. So it will take a little bit of time. And obviously, they will have some flexibility to deploy 5G equipment and networks moving forward. But certainly, we see Brazil in the next 2 to 3 years with a strong rebound in the industry.

Great. And -- how do you think of kind of potential churn in the industry as we do see the rationalization?

We are already going through that. So part of that is embedded in our numbers for Q4. We guided the 7% plus OTBG for LatAm. It's going to be impacted a bit in Q4. That's what we said. There will be some lingering churn in 2022 as well when you look at a little bit the situation in Mexico, for instance, with Telefónica or those customers, and I think the exposure is very low at the local level and at the global level, even more. And again, we're still very supportive of true consolidation of spectrum or some of the players like AT&T in Mexico, like the 3 guys I mentioned for Brazil of more activity coming in. So we're still quite optimistic, I would say, on most of the markets moving forward.

Okay. Good. And we talked about inflation in Europe. It's higher in Brazil right now. And I think those -- the currency has been volatile over time. How do you think kind of a big picture about managing emerging market currency risk? And there is a hedge with the inflation escalator, but with a lag. But what's the philosophy there?

Look, I mean, we looked at different hedging tools. In this industry, because of the length of the contract, it's pretty tough or costly. So I think naturally, because we reinvest the cash flow and the money locally in our operations, including M&A including BTS because, as you say, we have the CPI that kind of hedge against the FX. And when you look at the kind of the long cycles over time, it has been playing out relatively well for us. So -- that's the way I think we've been looking at that. Now if you look in general at the portfolio, the investment we've made, especially the last 2 big ones, CoreSite in the U.S. Telcel in Europe, a bit LatAm, but mainly in Europe. It is also about balancing in terms of exposure where we are and where we'll continue investing. That's why Europe, again, back to it, it's important to us, especially for towers because it creates this predictability and stability from the macro standpoint that the U.S. is enjoying and that the rest of the market maybe is a bit more unpredictable to.

Okay. And the escalators, it's usually kind of a trailing 12 months. Is it sort of reset once a year? Is that the right way to think about it?

Yes.

Okay. But it's hard with the account and you can't really sort of straight line that. You've got to see what the CPI comes out at, right?

It is and it's at a different time of the year, so you cannot generalize it. But again, it has been supportive also for us of growth in general and of our models in the market will operate.

Great. And you mentioned Mexico there briefly. So what -- where are we in terms of that integration, that network sharing deal? And does that kind of set the stage for some better growth out of that market in the coming years?

We hope so. I mean, this is a big market, the 120 million people. That's the first market where we operate in international after the U.S. is '99. We have close to 10,000 towers there. So we're a long-term relationship with most of the players. AT&T is committed. AT&T is going to have more needs because now serve to support also the Telefónica. So this is a positive. We see also with, even though they are going through a restructuring, a player which is important for the Mexico market. It's highly supported by the government all exclusive spectrum, the 700 megahertz band. It is now a quality network covering most of the population, pretty strong names shareholders behind. And I think when you see the look at the size of the Mexican market, even with dominance of American Mobile, there is probably room for AT&T and LatAm to continue going in the market. So we'll be there. We have a portfolio that has been, of course, quite profitable and a good location used by all of the players, and we'll continue to invest in this market.

Great. And presumably, Mexico is going to be looking at 5G and at least some of their big cities in the not-too-distant future?

It's a bit behind in Mexico to what it is in Brazil and definitely in Europe. So I'm not sure it's 2022 even. But probably in 2023, there should be more news around 5G spectrum in Mexico.

Okay. Great. And then you talked about Africa, I think it was an over 9% billings growth, organic tenant billings growth in -- the third quarter continues to lead the portfolio for American Tower. So Nigeria has been strong. It's -- we've seen other markets. You've expanded into quite a number of markets over time. Is -- are you more focused now on growing within your existing markets? Or is there more to do in Africa in terms of geographic expansion?

There is always more to do. Africa is an interesting continent of 1.3 billion people, 55 markets were in 7 markets. right? So -- and when you look at the deficit of infrastructure there, it's pretty amazing that the opportunity, I would say, the size of the opportunity now it's kind of risk-reward type of analysis that you need to do. We have security concerns. The rule of law in some markets, which is probably not as supportive of the towerco model. You have some level of consolidation between the operators. So this is important to continue looking kind of the big picture longer term in Africa. Some of the big guys, MTN, Airtel, Vodafone, Orange are committed long term. They are multi-market players across kind of the telecom industry, not only looking at the tower side, the role that we played there. So we continue to be disciplined in the market where we operate, if there is a way to do more, we will. We're enjoying right now, as you said, the growth which is coming from the existing portfolio. Nigeria has been double digit. TBG this year in the back of good healthy competition in particular between MTN and Airtel and lease up on our BTS built in particular last year, record level of new build again this year in Nigeria. This will continue given the size of the population there. And there might be more markets. So when we look at it probably with a focus on towers primarily and also being careful at the profile of market and the profile of the anchors.

Great. And I guess, with commodity super cycles playing into some of those markets as well.

As well, you're right.

Yes. And you talked about diesel earlier. Help us understand how you think about edging out into things like providing generators? And I think it's -- American Tower has certainly been focused on sustainability, but diesel would be one of those areas where even if it's not used except in backup, but where this may be a focus on is there a greener solution to that. So what's going on on that front?

Yes, absolutely. So we -- this is what's interesting, again, with Africa is that beyond the pure traditional wireless connectivity that we bring through that our industry -- you have broader needs. The MNOs are broader needs that we can support and power management has been one. So as you say, historically, we provided with diesel generators because the grid was nonexistent or very weak in many of the markets where we operate. We're transitioning towards a more sustainable type of solution for power management, together with MNOs. So this is an area of strategic partnership is looking at more sustainable solutions. We invested $0.25 billion in new solutions, more sustainable solutions in Africa, whether it's lithium ion batteries, looking at solar, wind energy for the supporting of the energy needs of the MNOs in the market. And we're looking also the announcement we made on the science-based target as that we have to diminish the emission of gas to the diesel generators at cooperating more with the MNOs in this area. So more to come, but definitely, this is a field of heavy investment and focus for the company, not only in Africa also in India, which is kind of the similar type of issue opportunities facing moving forward.

Right. We were talking about the edge earlier, and you were just talking about generators. I think in the U.S., the company generally stayed away from things like fiber or outdoor small cell activities. Do you see opportunities around that in many of your markets?

There might be. I mean, silicon power management is 1 which we have more experience more years working with the MNOs on that and now moving in terms of technology to the next, I would say, cyclo more sustainable solution. Fiber is an interesting one. I think in fiber, so the different small investment we made in LatAm in particular. The question is whether there's an opportunity to replicate somehow a neutral host model around FTTH solution? And I say FTTH because it's about dealing with Tier 1 MNO and potentially sharing capacity primarily through dark fiber for multiple tenants in the industry. And when you look at LatAm, unlike the U.S., you have lower ARPUs in terms of bandwidth and focus of investment for MNOs cannot do everything. So there might be an opportunity for us to see what we see right now in Brazil, for instance, to do that for them or with them. So create and deploy those fiber network. Again, FTTH oriented primarily share capacity for the MNOs. And then the MNOs, as it is the case with wireless, they would compete for the consumer and for the best offering to the consumer in the market. So there's certainly an opportunity there that we're looking at in Latin America might be the case in Africa, but it's again, a very fragmented market. There's a kind of say, the demand is just starting. Not sure in Europe because it's already kind of very crowded environment on the fiber side. So it's -- this is something that we'll look at. On the ODAS, IDAS, small cells, I mean, small cells, early days. I think we're pretty cautious in this field. As you said, I think the U.S. we stayed away from it. We will see some delays in the MNOs looking aggressively at small cells outside of the U.S. as well. It's probably more around right of ways and potential partnership for us to complement maybe the tower portfolios that we have in some of the markets, which we do have in some markets. So takeing Argentina. Winter Argentina through an agreement to work with the utility company of the city of Buenos Aires to have an exclusive right of ways on the polls of the city of Buenos Aires. So this enables actually 2 things, the fiberization of the network through the use of those and adding wireless equipment on those calls as well. So it's been a creative way of looking at it. There might be similar type of opportunities as well as well as we start to see more demand for small cells.

Great. And we talked a lot about the MNOs and 1 feature of 5G seems to have been a rationalization either network sharing or mergers or ending with a smaller number of networks but much stronger players. But we have seen in the U.S. perhaps the hope that cable will come out and build out some markets with their spectrum. I know private networks are a big opportunity maybe for some enterprises or smart cities or other things like that. So there's always been this goal at American Tower, I think, to expand both the services but also the customer base. So how do you think about bringing in nontraditional customers? What are you seeing today? What do you see in the future on the macro side?

Definitely on the edge and the data center opportunity. This is 1 of the things that cross. This is complementary with new customers, including the cloud players that will be somehow consolidating this industry together or against the MNO. So that's 1 piece of it. On the -- okay, we said around sharing or kind of the cooperation between MNOs, which we see more in my market than the U.S., where U.S. has been more about competing for the best network. Historically, we see that more in -- especially in the emerging markets, in particular because the economics are difficult for these operators. It's up to us as an industry to play with the same MNOs and to find the right solutions. And is a might be way for us to take a bigger role in some of those markets. You take Africa, for instance, rural solutions. Economically, it's very difficult. For instance, for the MNOs to deploy on their own with towerco, the traditional BTS model. It's a different model, which is a cheaper solution where you can recharter those population given the pressure from the regulators in those markets and we share those kind of sites from day 1 between the MNO because economically, it makes sense for all of them. So we're looking at that. And regarding kind of the private network and new customers in Europe, we are doing some experiments. So we kind of keep doing into some of these things. We have an experiment in Paris on Smart City, ahead of the 2024. We have a big IVAS experience in Germany as well. So we'll see where it goes. I don't think there's yet kind of a firm strategy there, but probably opportunity to look at.

Great. And tower assets, any portfolio has been in great demand here, and you get a chance to look at assets all over the world. How do you see the M&A landscape today in terms of -- you've obviously done a couple of large deals this year. But in terms of the pricing of the assets for sale versus the value of the growth opportunity, is it still an area where you think you can still see good opportunities over the next couple of years? Or do you think portfolio goes to be harder in this external inorganic in this sort of valuation environment?

No, we'll continue to be acquisitive when you have accretive M&A. So in spite of the pure cost and multi-probe pass portfolio, this is supported by the right level of growth and in the market will look at it. I mean multiples are kind of all over the place right now. So yes, it's true that it's very expensive in some places. It's also relatively shipped in place because of the risks linked to some of the markets, so the situation for a particular portfolio in particular sales. So for us, again, back to the discipline and the way we allocate capital, does it make sense strategically with the anchor? What's the growth profile? And even if may look relatively expensive. And I've never really seen the multiple go down over the past 10, 15 years in this sector is because you guys is predictability of the tower model and you see growth, telecommunication, being in the center of everything with 5G coming and probably low latency needs and there's going to be even more than that. So hopefully, we'll continue to make a smart decision when we look at M&A.

Great. And maybe just one last one here. You talked about discipline a lot, but you've got everything from emerging markets in Africa or Latin America and Germany. And once the risk profiles are very different across the world, you've got to prioritize it and then you've got to take it to Boston and get the projects approved. So -- how do you think about discount rates and weighing one project against another if you've got to sort of rank them? What's the framework there?

It's a good question. We try to be disciplined by prioritizing what makes sense long term for the company. And again, it has been complex in the decision-making process because of the macro environment because of the evolution of the different MNO landscape over time in all of the geographies because of the evolution of the kind of the asset class in which the company has been willing to invest because of the evolution of technology itself, with this kind of move towards kind of the more mileage moving forward as well. So -- that's why we -- we are trying on the fiber space, there is we're looking at this power solution, not only for emerging market, by the way, but also to potentially solve the energy prices that some of the developed markets are seeing in Europe and the U.S. and the same with data center. But regarding towers, it's again, it's looking at -- you need to -- if it's accretive from a purely financial standpoint, we make sense strategically in terms of partnership with the anchor and the MNOs. It tends to be cheaper in terms of multiple when you look at emerging markets, of course, versus the developed market. So sometimes it's complementary. It's not 1 against the other. But it's busy. It's been busy, and we continue to see the trend continuing for in the next future.

Great. Well, a great rundown, Olivier, we appreciate your time today. Thank you so much.

Thanks. Thank you for your time and invitation.