Amgen Inc. (AMGN) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Great. Good afternoon, everybody. I'm Terence Flynn, the biopharma analyst at Goldman Sachs. We're very pleased to welcome Amgen. Joining us today from the company, we have Peter Griffith, who is Executive Vice President and CFO; Dave Reese, who's Executive Vice President and Head of R&D; and Arvind Sood, who's Vice President and Head of Investor Relations. Thank you very much, gentlemen, for joining us today. We really appreciate your time. And so first, I'm going to turn it over to Peter and Dave to make some opening remarks before we launch into questions.

Terence, thank you very much, and thank you to Goldman Sachs. In the midst of the unprecedented COVID-19 pandemic, our focus remains on the safety of our employees and their families and continuing to reliably supply our medicines to patients across the globe. Dave and I, led by our CEO, Bob Bradway, have reached out to any number of our employees regarding the current climate in the United States on race relations, and we've stressed that this is not a time for silence, and Amgen will continue to work across our organization and communities to seek concrete actions to address the inequalities faced by people of color in our society today. And I would commend Goldman Sachs, Terence, for your standards that you've sent around Board members and IPOs recently that's received a lot of very important and very meaningful press. Now turning back to COVID-19, although we're going to absorb the impact of some business disruption, our business is resilient. We're executing well. We'll return to revenue growth this year, growth from our newer products, including Otezla, combined with that from biosimilars, is outpacing declines in our more mature legacy products. We reported solid results in Q1 with revenues up 11%; earnings per share, up 17%, driven by strong unit volumes with 10% unit growth in the United States and 32% outside the United States in unit growth. Otezla integration, onboarding of the Astellas joint venture in Japan and the BeiGene partnership collaboration, are all on track and on time. We reaffirmed our revenue and non-GAAP EPS guidance at our Q1 call. We expect some uncertainty across the quarters, with the greatest impact in the second quarter, with stabilization following that and then partial recovery occurring in the second half of the year. At Amgen, capital allocation continues to be a forethought, not an afterthought. Our priorities are unchanged and uninterrupted. We'll continue to be transparent and predictable. First, we're going to spend on internal innovation. Then we go to capital expenditures. We'll then look at important external business development opportunities, and it's important to us to maintain the cadence around returning excess cash to shareholders. We're committed to our growing dividend. It's $1.60 per share per quarter, and our share repurchases, we've signaled will be towards the lower end of our original range of $3 billion to $5 billion. As we continue to pursue business development opportunities, we'll continue to be patient, wait until we're one of the best or the very best buyer; prudent, where we select deals that clear our hurdle rate and provide return to our shareholders, not just the shareholders, the sellers, where they're precise. They focus on our areas of expertise, oncology, cardiology and inflammation. Lesser degree, we'll look at opportunities in our other 3 commercial areas, bone, nephrology and neuroscience. And finally, we look for opportunities where we can promptly integrate them and realize the returns for our shareholders on a timely basis. Last, then I'll turn it over to Dave. We have a strong balance sheet. No liquidity issues, strong access to the capital markets, cash flows, free cash flow of $2.0 billion in Q1. We raised an additional $4 billion in long-term debt in May, demonstrating the strength of our business. We achieved that at record low rates for our 7s, 10s, 20s and 30s. So with that, I'm going to turn it over to Dave Reese. Dave?

Well, thanks, Peter, and thank you, Terence, again, for the invitation today. I'll just give a very brief update on some of the activities across research and development as we move back towards, I would say, a normalization or a new normal of activity. Let me start with some of our later-stage programs. I know many are interested in the status of those programs. And so I'll speak briefly about those. Sotorasib or AMG 510 has an ongoing potentially pivotal Phase II trial, I think, which many of you are aware of. We expect that to read out on time. It's on track for data delivery in the second half of this year. While we have experienced minor disruptions in terms of a few patient visits here and there or scans, there is no compromise to trial integrity. I expect a very high-quality dataset. I don't think that, that will arrive in time for the ESMO meeting because we wish to have at least 6 months follow-up on all patients after a time -- after the first initial response. And so given the completion of the trial at the end of last year, that probably pushes us a little bit past ESMO. We are looking at the fall meeting schedule as that evolves and are committed to appropriate data disclosure, whether that's through a congress, if available, or other mechanisms such as top line results later in the year. Likewise, the tezepelumab and omecamtiv mecarbil Phase III trials in severe asthma or advanced heart failure, respectively, are on track and will read out in the second half of the year. Again, we don't see anything at this point that leads us to believe there are any compromises in trial integrity. In the earlier stage pipeline, there was a little bit bigger disruption earlier, beginning in March, as you can imagine, for Phase I trials, where an intensive safety monitoring is required. We are seeing a, I would say, fairly rapid resumption of activity of those studies now, including, for example, combination trials with AMG 510. The next few months, I think, will tell us how quickly we're able to come back towards a normal level of enrollment as sites reopen. Many of these patients, of course, are quite ill and cannot wait long periods of time. And so I'm, I would say, cautiously optimistic there. We do have some programs in the earlier stage portfolio that we hope to share data on later in the year, including half-life extended BiTE programs, targeting PSMA in prostate cancer, DLL3 in small cell lung cancer and, of course, BCMA in multiple myeloma. I'd also point out that in the earlier stage portfolio, we are looking to launch the AMG 890 Phase II trial. That is a small interfering RNA that targets Lp(a). We had put that on hold as the lockdowns went into place, but are getting ready to ramp up rapidly. Our research labs are coming up. Again, in Shanghai, we're largely back to normal. We are normal or near normal in our European research labs, and deCODE in Iceland and our labs in the U.S. are resuming activities as well. The laboratory scientists, as you can imagine, are quite eager to get back to the bench, and so I'm very optimistic in this regard. And then finally, I'll just end with a few words about our COVID-19-specific efforts. As you're aware, we have a partnership with Adaptive Biotechnologies to develop potentially neutralizing antibodies. That is progressing very quickly. It's been quite a good collaboration. It is in the preclinical phase, and as we move along, we'll provide additional guidance as to when we might be entering the clinic with a potential therapeutic. Otezla, as we have announced before, will be examined as an immunomodulatory agent, and it is now going to be in, I think, at least 3 platform trials going forward across the patient spectrum in terms of severity of illness. We expect the first patients to begin enrolling in those trials in the coming few weeks or so and read out a little bit later in the year. So we'll keep you apprised of that progress as well. And then finally, we're participating, of course, in a number of industry-wide efforts, and I sit on, of course, a lot of the leadership groups that are trying to drive the industry response to COVID-19. And so I think we'll pause there and open it up for the fireside chat portion of the discussion here.

Great. Well, thank you both for your comments and thanks for the overview. It's a great way to frame the upcoming discussion. Maybe, Peter, I'd like to start with you. COVID-19 is obviously going to have near- and long-term impacts on the health care industry. And just thinking about kind of your business model, any perspective that you can share in terms of ways maybe COVID is going to impact it, either over the near term or the longer term?

Yes. Thank you for the question, Terence. It's very, very good. It's very important. Our strategy is it will remain to discover, develop, manufacture and deliver innovative medicines that address significant unmet need for patients with grievous illnesses all around the world. Number two, we're going to -- we're focused across the organization in assuring product supply. As Esteban Santos, our Head of Manufacturing, says, it's every patient every time, and it's continued to be that. We're happy with that, and it continues to be in good shape. We're also very focused on helping patients navigate the disruption that's been created globally in health care. Our teams are stepping up, finding innovative solutions to help patients secure treatment, including some that are technology-driven, highly effective. We have a very broad and geographically diverse portfolio of products, and we're seeing some improvements as the markets start to open up from some of the stay-at-home orders, different geographies. The only way we come through this pandemic and return to any semblance of normalcy, in our view, is through innovation. So disruptions led to change, and we in the industry are finding ways to adapt to the current environment. Our industry has stepped up, I think, as we view it, in unprecedented collaborations to address the pandemic. Certainly, Dave will talk about our collaboration with Adaptive and also on the upcoming Otezla trials. The industry's response is also leading to a shift in the perception and reputation of the biopharma sector and the value it contributes to health care based on some recent polling. Now specific to Amgen, our teams are working to address urgent continuity of care issues and explore novel solutions, including alternate sites of care, mobile nurse injections, prescription fills at specialty and retail pharmacies. And in some countries, we've also been able to accommodate home delivery of medicines and home infusions. We've had a number of scaled digital health platforms in place prior to COVID-19 in neuro and cardiovascular, and we've accelerated those efforts in the past few months and are utilizing those tools for medical education, for sales promotion, participation in virtual congresses and continuing medical education with our field employees fully enabled, and we're working with policymakers and advocacy organizations to address patient continuity challenges in this environment. And regarding the increased number of unemployed and a very important discussion for society, Amgen provides any number of programs that ensure patient access and affordability of our medicines, and we would anticipate increased utilization of these programs. So in general, when a patient loses employment, they become unemployed, he or she often turns to COBRA or other measures before becoming eligible for Medicaid. So we're projecting, given those various steps and the unknown timing of an economic recovery, that we currently project that segment mix impact of Medicaid expansion could become negative maybe later this year, and more of the effect will be seen in 2021. And then finally, we also see some savings and expenses slowing for more discretionary categories like travel, meetings, conferences as well as what we might accrue for in some trials that might temporarily pause some supplies. So as I say, it's expense atrophy due to the pandemic. So Terence, that's how we're thinking about it. It's a long answer, but it's an important answer because it's the worst health care crisis in 100 years and really kind of the hardest economic abrupt kit in 85 years, and that's how we're dealing with it. And I'm also -- I think that our background in dealing with difficult situations going back to Hurricane Maria, when it went right over -- a Stage 5 hurricane went right over our facility in Puerto Rico, our flagship manufacturing facility a couple of years ago, and Esteban and the team and our incident management team managed right through that, I think that gives us strong muscle memory to deal with what we've been dealing with. And frankly, at this point, we're viewing this as the norm. So we're going to be ready to move forward with this kind of environment, and we intend on emerging stronger.

Great. Great. Well, thanks for that. Really appreciate it, Peter. I guess one follow-up. As you mentioned, you're seeing the recovery efforts across the board. Are things trending generally in line or maybe slightly better than your expectations? As you think about kind of the second quarter pace of recovery of states and countries are reopening, how should we think about that kind of slope of the recovery here?

Yes. But the slope of the recovery, Vs and Us and Ws and wobbly Ws and Ls, I don't know what to think. We ought to turn to David. Is it David Boskin? Who's your technical analyst there?

Dave Kostin.

Kostin, I'm sorry. He's fabulous. Yes. He's the one that probably ought to answer how that's going to look. But what all I'll answer is we continue to believe the most pronounced effect will be now in the back half of Q2. We don't know, though, precisely when that's going to lap over the end of the quarter, but we think then there'll be stabilization and then partial recovery later in the year. We're not anticipating an additional peak in what we're thinking about in the fall. But at this point, we're going to stay with that and not reflect significant business impacts from any type of reinfections. We'll certainly provide an update at the end of the second quarter. We see patients beginning to return to physicians' offices. We see the beginning of some enrollment in paused clinical studies. Hospitals are beginning to resume elective procedures, and frankly, I think, hospitals are also beginning to see serious illnesses that probably got deferred and diagnoses deferred during the COVID -- the height of the pandemic. So that's all, I think, probably, most importantly, positive for all patients. And that's what we're glad to see. And we're working hard to maintain the recovery at this point.

Great...

Terence, I would just add that if one of the indicators is patients returning to physician offices for care, we are beginning to see an improvement in that. We're also seeing an improvement in patients returning to pharmacies to renew their prescriptions. So there definitely seems to be some improvement in these behaviors. Now what we can't venture to guess, of course, is the sustainability in terms of what the pattern of this pandemic will be.

Yes. Okay. Understood. I guess, one other big picture question before we go to Dave, is just you touched on this a little bit, Peter, in terms of capital allocation, your strategy being unchanged here. One question we get is -- relates to the Enbrel IP. Obviously, you guys were successful at defending your patents last year. There's an appeal decision, as everybody knows. But just if you were to lose that decision, would that alter in any ways your capital allocation strategy?

I think, Terence, we remain confident in Enbrel's IP. And I just want to reiterate our commitment to our capital allocation principles, which start with investing in internal innovation. That's going to be number one. We're going to continue our CapEx. We've got an industry-leading, environmentally-friendly next-gen 2.0 facility in Rhode Island, just outside of Providence that comes online very soon. It will be up in license, we think, in the first quarter of 2022. So we're very committed to that. We'll partially evaluate -- patiently, rather, evaluate external business development opportunities that clear the hurdle rate, as I mentioned. We're going to continue to do that and we're going to continue to return capital to shareholders. So we're -- the history of Amgen is strong in all those categories. We intend on remaining transparent and candid about what we're going to do there.

Okay. Great. And Arvind, any updates in terms of timing on that decision that you can provide?

We don't know the hearing, Terence. As you know, it was held back in the first week of March and truly is up to the discretion of the appellate court to render a decision. So has there been a disruption in the court scheduling because of the COVID-19 situation? That's a possibility, but we really don't know.

Okay. Okay. Great. Maybe, Dave, just as we're coming out of ASCO now, I know you guys had a pretty strong presence there this year and you hosted a conference call and went through a lot of different assets. But maybe just, at a high level, start out, give us an overview of kind of the current strategy at Amgen in cancer? And really, what are the key focal platforms that you're focused on here coming out of ASCO?

Yes. No, it's a great question, Terence. Thank you. Several years ago, we articulated a strategy in which we really stated and felt that the future of oncology would be a marriage between what's now called precision oncology or targeted therapies and immuno-oncology. We had actually put the fundamentals of that in place several years ago. And so the strategic question then became how would we focus in each of those areas. And we took the approach that, within precision oncology, we would go after very high-value targets. So we weren't going to generate 80 or 100 small molecules, for example, but go after high-value targets. And I think AMG 510, of course, is now the premier example of that strategy coming to life. The MCL-1 programs, in addition, are an example of a high-value target where we've introduced molecules into the clinic. Within immuno-oncology, our primary investment focus has been on the BiTE platform and what is a second-generation set of BiTEs that have been engineered to have an extended half-life with the goal of being able to administer them weekly, potentially even less frequently in some settings after an induction phase. And as I mentioned, we're going to start getting some readouts from those programs a little later in the year. So that, I would say, has been the broad strategic focus, and what you saw at ASCO were really data readouts now that emanate from that original strategy around AMG 510 in tumors other than lung cancer, including colorectal cancer monotherapy and then evidence of other activity in a smattering of other tumors that carry the KRAS G12C mutation. We presented some BiTE data there as well, and again, the half-life extended BiTE data anticipated in the second half of this year.

Great. Maybe just a follow-up on the 510 program. I mean as you look out now, you gave a pretty comprehensive update at ASCO, but what are the key outstanding questions as you see them here on the forward? Obviously, really exciting targets, some early data, but what remains to be known about the profile of the drug?

Yes. So I think we have some knowns and unknowns right now. I think the path forward in lung cancer, in monotherapy, is pretty clear, and we simply need to get the data read out from the potentially pivotal Phase II trial a little later this year, as we discussed earlier. In colorectal cancer, I think it's an outstanding question as to whether monotherapy will be sufficient in and of itself or whether combination therapy is a preferred approach. We have a fully enrolled Phase II trial now in colorectal cancer. This is advanced colorectal cancer in the patients whose tumors, of course, carry the G12C mutation. That was actually able to enroll and complete enrollment despite the challenges of the lockdown, and I think that's an indicator of the lack of treatment options for these patients. I think that -- the data from that Phase II trial will be highly informative about a monotherapy approach, and that -- and we are enrolling in parallel now and we are up and dosing patients in multiple arms of an umbrella or basket trial of various combinations that are moving forward, all of them predicated in biology and tailored potentially towards or preferentially towards specific indications. So I think how those combinations play out, of course, is a key question going forward. And then I think the third piece is now really beginning to understand on a molecular level, can we generate predictors of response and resistance. And we've got a very extensive biomarker program now that we have treated sufficient numbers of patients to do informative analyses, and there are over 400 patients now enrolled across the program in less than 2 years since it's been in the clinic. We are hoping to present the first tranche of that biomarker data later in the year as those analyses start to read out, and I think that's going to be very important for AMG 510. It's going to be very important for the field in understanding the behavior of tumors that are driven by this mutation.

Yes. Okay. Great. Maybe just a couple of follow-ups. In terms of thinking about the Phase II lung cancer trial, I know the data you said is unlikely to make it for ESMO. But as you think about kind of the target profile there, I think, one point of discussion is how to think about this relative to some of the other options out there, so how to think about the efficacy profile, et cetera and then, ultimately, like how do you think about getting into frontline here if KRAS is a driver mutation? So maybe if you could just walk us through that and maybe loop in the Phase III program, where that fits into the overall strategy in lung cancer.

Yes, sure. I don't want to speculate about specific outcome measures that we're hoping to see in terms of the response rate. I think it's going to be a package of efficacy measures. Response rate will be important, but also duration of response and I think, very importantly, progression-free survival. If you look at some of the data that we presented at ASCO, for example, in other tumors, you have -- they're clearly a subset of patients who may not meet the formal definition of a response. The tumor is around 20%, but doesn't meet the 30% threshold, but the duration actually doesn't look bad. They're clearly deriving clinical benefit. And so I think putting all of that together -- and then I think you bring up a very important point, which is also compared to what. These patients have all had prior combination chemotherapy, the vast majority, meaning, we anticipate over 90%, in all likelihood, will have had checkpoint inhibitors, those who have not, probably, due to some sort of contraindication to checkpoint inhibitors. And really the available therapy there is typically single-agent chemotherapy, which has low response rates and historically at least short durations of response. And we believe that the -- based on the data we've amassed to date, the tolerability and safety profile of AMG 510 should compare very favorably to that. And that, I think, then leads directly to the Phase III trial, which is a head-to-head comparison with docetaxel. That has resumed. We were literally on the eve of launching that trial when the lockdowns went into place. We paused for a period of time because we did not want patients to start the study and then lose access to the study and have to come off. We have now reinitiated, and that trial has been powered to detect an overall survival advantage. It could potentially serve as a confirmatory trial if we were able to achieve an accelerated approval in the U.S., for example. And of course, in many jurisdictions or markets around the world, these sorts of comparative data are required either for registration and/or reimbursement, and so it's an important trial in that respect as well.

Great. And maybe just the last one on 510. And you touched on this a little bit, I think, coming out of ASCO. But just is there a similarly fast path to market for colon cancer? I mean, I was struck by the physician commentary on your conference call regarding the profile here. Seems like the bar is fairly low in this setting and there's really a need for new options. So similar to lung, could there be a quicker path to market here in colon?

Yes. I think that's one of the things we want to look at, Terence, going forward, as we start to accumulate a little more data from the Phase II trial that has enrolled, and that will come in the coming months. And I think that's what, to me, is really the sort of milestone that I'm looking at to make a decision about whether there is a path forward in colorectal and whether there is any kind of expedited development pathway.

Okay. Great. Maybe if we just move on. The other late-stage readout. Again, you referenced this in your prepared remarks, is tezepelumab for asthma, really strong Phase II data that were published a few years ago. But maybe just remind us of kind of the Phase III program and why you're confident in a positive outcome and where this would ultimately be positioned in the treatment paradigm.

Yes. Well, let me just remind everyone that the underlying biology here because it's important to understand, actually, ultimately, the Phase III trial, so tezepelumab targets TSLP. TSLP is derived from epithelial cells at the time of tissue injury, and it's used to help recruit the immune response or the inflammatory response that occurs in the setting of tissue injury. And of course, asthma at base is an inflammatory disease, and so we are targeting, again, not an immune side effector but something derived from the resident tissue and an upstream mediator of the inflammatory cascade. Because of that, in the Phase II trial, one of our hypotheses was that this drug could have potential utility across a range of patients with asthma. And there are sort of 2 big flavors of asthma, allergic asthma or so-called eosinophil high asthma. That's the marker that's used. Eosinophils, of course, are some of the immune cells that mediate allergic reactions. And then an eosinophil low or nonallergic form of asthma. In that latter group, there are currently no approved biologics. And existing therapies for those with severe disease, in our view, are inadequate, and there's a large amount of unmet medical need and I think a large amount of residual unmet medical need in the eosinophil high group. In the Phase II trial, we were able to show roughly comparable efficacy across those 2 groups. And so if we are able to replicate the strong data from the Phase II trial in the Phase III trial, I think then you have a drug that can potentially be used across this very broad swath of patients with severe asthma. And this is a disease, of course, that globally is increasing in incidence and prevalence quite dramatically, driven by urbanization and pollution, which travel together.

And then I guess, if you do see a positive outcome in this Phase III asthma study, how broad could the program end up being here? I know you're doing an atopic derm study, you've talked about COPD, but maybe just talk to us about the breadth of the opportunity set if the asthma data look favorable.

Yes. I think if the asthma data look favorable, we will be looking at a large range of potential options in terms of life cycle management, and we'll provide guidance on that a little later. But I think that would be in context of positive data in asthma, where the genetic data, the biologic data are very strong. And of course, we would want to need to see a positive outcome there.

Okay. And I guess the other program I wanted to touch on quickly is omecamtiv, obviously, another important late-stage program for you guys for heart failure here. Maybe just remind us of the Phase III design and kind of the key features here and where this would be positioned in the paradigm? Because, again, I know there is newer option here, but you guys have some, I think, unique design features in your study.

Yes. I think there are a couple of things that potentially differentiate omecamtiv. First of all, of course, it's a novel mechanism of action and it's the first drug to reach this stage of development that acts directly on the heart muscle cell to improve contractility and, of course, failing contractility is ultimately one of the primary defects that occurs in heart failure. It's also a drug that is intended to be added to or layered on existing therapies. So one doesn't need to titrate off or, in theory, adjust other medications, and these patients are often on a variety of medications or combination therapy for treatment of their heart failure. And then the Phase III trial, as you mentioned, is -- it's very large. It's well over 8,000 patients. It's one of the largest trials in advanced heart failure ever conducted. I think it's going to -- it has enrolled a somewhat sicker population than you've seen in some of the other recent major heart failure trials in patients where we feel there is really significant unmet medical need. The endpoints are, I would say, fairly standard. The primary endpoint is a composite of heart failure events or cardiovascular death. These are well-accepted regulatory endpoints. We're well powered to detect on the order of a 15% to 20% improvement in those sorts of measures, which is what is -- we believe is clinically relevant, and that's certainly what we hear from the cardiology and heart failure community. And then I'd say, importantly, we have built in a very robust patient-reported outcomes or quality of life set of assessments in the trial. Of course, quality of life is often the primary issue for patients with heart failure. They don't come in and tell you, oh, my ejection fraction is 29 instead of 35. They tell you how much swelling they're having in their legs or how is their breathlessness. And so we really want to be able to capture potential improvements in those dimensions, which are so important for patients.

Well, maybe in the interest of time, I'll go back to Peter here. Just on the M&A business development front, any updates? And maybe again, Dave, you could weigh in here as well. As you think about kind of building out the opportunity set, you've talked about focusing on your core therapeutic areas. But any update in terms of how to think about the strategy? I mean, has this environment created any opportunities? Has it created challenges as you try to do diligence potential either collaborations or deals?

Great question, Terence. Let me begin at the end because it actually hasn't created too much of challenges for diligence and vigilance, as I would say, which is good news. And then working back up to your question around opportunities in the number, we've seen small- to mid-cap valuations and private company valuations largely come back from the March lows to roughly flat year-to-date. So they still increased in value since the beginning of '19. So we haven't seen the decreases there that perhaps intuitively or logically one might think would have happened. So I'll just go back to answer your question about M&A at Amgen, we're going to be patient. We're going to be prudent and wait for things that clear the hurdle rate. We'll be precise. We'll look for opportunities where they're going to fall under our managers who will promptly integrate them. I would say, I think the process of looking at external business development opportunities at Amgen is a really thoughtful and thorough one. And that Dave R., I'll now say Dave Reese, and Murdo Gordon, our Head of Commercial team, very effectively and create our power triangle with Dave Piacquad, who's Head of our Business Development, he's been in the industry for any number of decades. And so we feel really good when those 3 come to the table with opportunities that we can allocate our shareholders' capital to. So I think that process is very disciplined. I think they'll continue to be that way. But we continue to sort through many numbers of these. And we'll continue to do that very patiently, prudently, precisely and promptly. So I'll see if Dave's got anything else he wants to...

Yes. What I would add, Terence, is you've heard us previously articulate the notion that we're open to deals across a broad spectrum from technology plays or platform plays in the research arena through later-stage assets, such as Otezla. I don't think our strategic emphasis on that has changed at all in light of COVID-19. And we reaffirm that approach and lens going forward.

Great. Well, I think we're up on time. But thank you, all of you, for joining us today. Really appreciate it. And best of luck over the coming months. And thanks for your efforts with respect to COVID-19 as I know you're working hard on a couple of approaches there. So best of luck.

Thank you, Terence.

Thank you.

Thank you very much, Terence.

Thanks. Bye-bye.

Bye.