Amigo Resources PLC (AMGO) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Amigo Holdings PLC Financial Year 2022 Interim Results Presentation. My name is Nadia, and I will be coordinating the call today. [Operator Instructions] I will now hand over to your host, Gary Jennison, CEO of Amigo Holdings, to begin. Gary, please go ahead.

Thank you, Nadia. Good morning, everybody, and thank you for joining us for Amigo Holdings half year results for the 6 months ended 30th of September 2021. I'm Gary Jennison, Amigo's CEO, and presenting with me today is our Chief Financial Officer, Mike Corcoran. So in a moment, I will give a summary of our business and financial headlines for the period before Mike takes you through the numbers in more detail. I'll then give you an update on where we are with our plans to implement a new Scheme of arrangement and provide some details of our proposed new scheme. This is clearly the most critical issue we're facing as a business and any return to lending will only be assessed if a Scheme is sanctioned. However, I will touch briefly on what a return to lending might look like if we are able to do so. Then following the call, we will open the call to take your questions. So moving on to Slide 5, the business headlines. The Board continues to pursue a Scheme of arrangement to address the significant complaints liability that has arisen from historical lending. This is taking far longer than we had anticipated. And I'll go into why this is, in more detail, following Mike's presentation. And indeed, what we've been doing since the last Scheme was not sanctioned back in May. We've taken on board the recommendations made by the judge during the first Scheme sanctioned hearing including the setting up of an Independent Customer Committee. We're calling it ICC for short, if I refer to it in that way later. The new Scheme options have been very much shaped by the views of that Committee and I would genuinely like to take this opportunity to thank the Committee and its Chairman for all its hard work over the last few months. So Amigo intends to apply for court sanction of 2 separate Schemes next time. The new Scheme proposals, along with our future business plan have been submitted to both the ICC and to the FCA. A revised proposal, which was sent to the ICC on the 12th of November, will give customers the choice between 2 schemes. The first is what we're calling the new business Scheme, and this will be contingent on both a successful equity raise and Amigo restarting lending. The second is a managed wind-down of the Amigo Loans Limited business. The Board's view is that the new business Scheme will provide more value and more certainty to redress creditors. So the court will be presented with both Schemes during the same sanction hearing. And if the judge does not sanction our preferred new business Scheme, then he or she will be asked to sanction the wind-down scheme. It's important to say that 12 months on from when we were crafting the first Scheme, we have far greater clarity, most notably on the impact of COVID. And we've been able to, as a result of this and other elements, Mike will go into in a moment. We've been able to significantly increase the cash contribution to the revised Scheme. However, if no Scheme is sanctioned, then without a Scheme of arrangement, the complaints liability we are facing means that the business is insolvent. So if we move on to Slide 6 to continue the business headlines. In other business headlines, lending has remained paused since March 2020 with customer numbers down by around 55% for the end of September. So we've had significant engagement with the FCA, and this has continued throughout the last few months, not only on the Scheme, but also on the ongoing enforcement investigation and on our future lending proposition. I'll talk more about future lending in a moment, but it's important to note that significant hurdles remain, including the FCA, allowing us to resume lending and our ability to secure new funding. But if we can get there, then we have a truly innovative and customer-focused new product, which has been designed to address a pressing need in the market. And now if we turn to the financial headlines on Slide 7. Amigo continues to operate within significant financial constraints. And whilst the cash position remains strong, with current unrestricted cash of more than GBP 260 million. We had net liabilities at the end of September of almost GBP 120 million. The net loan book has reduced by 54%. All COVID-related payment plans have now ended. However, we continue to help customers in financial difficulty with alternative forbearance measures. And whilst collections have been better than we modeled for the first scheme back in December 2020, an increasing trend in the level of arrears has led to a steep rise in the impairment coverage to just under 23%. This compares with 14% in the same period last year. So uncertainty remains around the future collections performance of the loan book. The complaints provision is little changed from the full year at GBP 344.3 million, and additional cost of GBP 5.3 million in the period resulted in a pretax profit of GBP 2.1 million for the 6 months. Mike will give more detail of this in a moment. And I will now hand over to Mike, who will go through the numbers in more detail.

Thanks, Gary, and good morning, everyone. Let's start by looking at the income statement. Overall, as Gary just said, we saw a pretax profit of GBP 2.1 million in the period. Revenues have continued to decline, driven by the reduction in the loan book as a result of us continuing to run off the backlog and the continued pause in new lending. The increased impairment charge, despite the decline of the book is due to our reforecasting the loss curves following an observed increase in the level of arrears during the period. Our strong focus on controlling costs has resulted in a 40% reduction in operating expenses, primarily driven by lower staff costs and lower professional fees incurred in the period. The complaint cost of GBP 5.3 million was due in part movements in the provision alongside legal and advisory costs. We'll look at the complaints provision in more detail in a moment. Slide 10 shows the breakdown of our balance sheet. Without a Scheme in place, the complaint liability as at 30th of September is reflected in our balance sheet in full. Redress is paid either in cash or via a balance adjustments. It's important to note that with or without a Scheme, balance adjustments will be settled in full. It's the cash liability that's the variable. Without a Scheme, we estimate the complaint cash liability to be around GBP 270 million, with potential for variability in that primarily driven by future complaint volumes and uphold rates. Under a Scheme, the level of that cash liability would be set based on the expected cash available. The gross loan book declined to GBP 289.2 million year-on-year due primarily to the pause in lending. Funding has reduced considerably with the securitization now having been fully paid down. With a strong cash performance facilitated by ongoing collections and offset by the securitization paydown we have a positive net borrowings position at the end of the period of GBP 2.1 million. With a significant provision for complaints in the balance sheet, however, the net liability position as of the end of September 2021 was GBP 117.6 million. Moving to Slide 11 and a look at the new Scheme contribution. The contribution to the scheme, as Gary was saying, will be significantly greater than that of the original Scheme. And this is largely due to the fact that almost an entire year has passed since the first Scheme was first developed back in December of 2020. There are 3 contributing factors to us being able to offer more cash now. The first is the better underlying collections performance we have seen in terms of impairments versus assets modeled in the original Scheme. In December of last year, the impact of COVID was highly uncertain and that uncertainty was reflected in the higher modeled impairment projections. This was also a view clearly shared by the wider market at the time with our bonds pricing at around [ 50% ], reflecting investors' own concerns around the future collectibility of the Amigo loan book. The second is very simply the latest Scheme effective date, which we have now modeled for the first half of the next calendar year and the impact of this on the timing of balance adjustments. Collections on accounts have continued throughout the year and are modeled to continue until the Scheme is sanctioned. Thirdly, the better collections performance resulting from these first 2 contributing factors has enabled us to consider repaying our senior secured notes early, which if [ some ] would generate savings on the future interest payable and enable us to increase the contribution to the Scheme bond. What does this mean for shareholders? Progressing with either of the Scheme options will impact our shareholders, most notably through a material dilution of their holding if they do not take up their rights within an equity rate. This will leave existing shareholders with a much smaller proportion of the group. However, the unfortunate truth is that without an approved Scheme to address the significant liability that has arisen from historical lending, Amigo has an insolvent balance sheet and faces administration or other insolvency process. Moving on to look at complaints in a little more detail. Until we have greater certainty around the future Scheme, we continue to account for both known and expected future complaints liabilities on the basis that they will be settled in [ part ]. The provision has therefore been prepared on a consistent basis with prior periods and GBP 344.3 million is largely unchanged from year-end. The provision was increased by GBP 5.3 million in the period, reflecting the 8% annual compensatory interest that continues to accrue offset by the increase in the number of customers with charged-off loans, the liability for which is then removed from the provision. This GBP 5.3 million increase is the income statement charge for the period. A total of GBP 5.6 million of the complaints provision was utilized in the period, predominantly relating to advisory costs paid and Redress paid customers with a pre-fee complaint. That is complaints prior to upheld complaints prior to December 2020. Collections continue to be resilient despite increasing delinquency as standard collections have been supported by early settlements, customers on payment plans and post charge-off recovery, a total of GBP 149.9 million of cash was collected in the period with monthly collections declining broadly in line with the amortization of the gross loan book. Moving to Slide 14, which shows the impairment charge as a percentage of revenue. This stands at 45.8% for the half year, a significant increase from 21.1% in the prior year. The lower charge resulting from the decline in loan book and lending costs have been offset by a reforecast of the loss curve reflecting a significant increase in the probability of default. The probability of default has been revised following the increasing delinquency trends observed in the period notably but not exclusively from customers exiting COVID-19 holiday payment plan. The economic outlook remains highly uncertain, whilst unemployment trends are favorable, inflationary headwinds are likely to have a significant impact on our customer base. Significant uncertainty remains in respect to future customer behavior as government support measures are fully withdrawn and as the Amigo [ skew ] process continues. On Slide 15, we have the impairment provision with on the left-hand side, the staging components. And on the right-hand side, the loan book aging. The overall balance sheet provision decreased to GBP 65.1 million at the end of the half year. While it decreased in line with the reducing loan book in Q1. In Q2, the provision has been increased significantly due to the reforecast of the loss curves as just described, resulting in a coverage ratio of 22.5% versus 14% a in the prior year. Because of the increased levels of arrears predominantly from customers exiting COVID plans, we've seen an increase in the proportion of the gross loan book greater than 61 days past due to 12%, which compares to 3.7% a year ago. Slide 16 demonstrates the continued strong cash generation of the business with GBP 52.3 million positive cash flow in the period. We continue to conserve cash by controlling operating expenses and as a result of not being able to lend. The cash balance at the end of the half year was GBP 234.5 million despite GBP 64.4 million being repaid on the securitization facility. This compares to a cash balance of GBP 134.2 million in the prior year. The final slide, Slide 17 looks at our net debt and funding structure. The group is financed from a combination of cash generated from operations and senior secured notes of GBP 234.1 million. The securitization facility of up to GBP 100 million was fully repaid at the end of September 2021. We are keeping the structure of the facility in place to give us flexibility for future funding options. Net debt has reduced significantly by GBP 121 million in the period to a small positive net cash position. Our cash balance of GBP 235 million covers the GBP 234 million senior secured notes. These became callable in January 2020 at a premium of 3.8% That premium fall to 0 in January 2022. Resilient collections and diligent cash management have enabled us to build a strong cash position, while allowing the paydown of the securitization facility. Current cash is in excess of GBP 260 million. With that, thank you, and I'll hand you now back to Gary.

Thank you very much, Mike. I've now got to say a few slides on the proposed new Scheme of arrangement. So let's turn straight to Slide 19 and the progress on the Scheme of arrangement. So as I've said earlier, the process is taking considerably longer than we anticipated, but it is absolutely critical that we get it right this time. On this slide, we've outlined what we've been doing since we were unable to secure the first scheme in May of this year, just over 6 months ago. First of all, and of critical importance, we've been working hard to address all the concerns raised by Justice Miles at the sanction hearing in May as well as the comments made by the FCA. A key recommendation from the judge was to increase customer involvement in deciding how a potential new Scheme could work and which options were most attractive. As a direct response to this, we put together an Independent Customer Committee, the ICC. And this has 8 members selected at random, a mix of customers, past and present, borrowers and guarantors. The financial ombudsman service were also invited to attend as our largest creditor, but they didn't choose to. Another criticism we received was that the Scheme had not been explained properly and was presented as a binary option. The judge did not believe there was an imminent risk of insolvency. It's very clear from our results that without a Scheme, Amigo is insolvent. However, in reaching the final Scheme proposal, which gives 2 alternative Scheme options as well as a no Scheme options. We developed and presented 5 different Scheme alternatives. This is an immensely complex situation, and the committee has been fully engaged in the negotiation process and has been provided with professional advice funded by Amigo to help its members assess each option or suggest alternatives. The documents, which will go into the broader customer population have been reworked to present the various options open to our customers in the clearest way possible. Another issue raised by the judge was the low creditor turnout. This is clearly harder to address because we don't know what the size of the creditor population is. It's important to note that a significant proportion of the relevant population have indicated that they do not consider themselves to have a claim and are therefore not eligible to vote. However, we will continue to engage with our customers to encourage those who believe they have a valid complaint to vote. We continue to get a large level of customers' inquiries around the Scheme. So we're hopeful of a good turnout next time. A further concern was that shareholders might continue to benefit from the continuation of the business, while customers were expected to receive substantially less redress than they were entitled to. I'll return to this in a moment. On the 28th of September this year, we issued our Scheme proposal and future business plans to both the ICC and the FCA. The FCA has appointed an independent financial adviser to assess the Scheme, and we have continued to have extensive dialogue with both the FCA and the Chair of the ICC. A revised proposal was issued to the ICC on the 12th of November. Finally, the Practice Statement Letter, the PSL, which explains the Scheme to the relevant creditors has been rewritten to reflect the new Scheme options simplified for clarity. And this has been sent to the FCA for their views. So if we move on to Slide 20, what happens next? This slide sets out the next steps. So as soon as we receive final agreement on the proposal from the ICC, and the FCA has completed its review of the PSL, we will issue this to all relevant creditors. That's the customers and the court. We will then follow the court process, which will begin with a high court hearing to convene a creditors meeting. We plan to ask creditors to vote on both of the Scheme options. If they vote in favor, a high court sanction hearing will be held to decide whether a Scheme may proceed. As I said earlier, we'll be presenting both scheme options to the judge, the new business Scheme and the wind-down Scheme. If the judge does not sanction our preferred new business Scheme, we will ask the judge to sanction the wind-down Scheme during that same sanction hearing. We expect this court process to take several months. If a Scheme is not sanctioned at all, Amigo is insolvent and faces administration or other form of insolvency process. So let's move on now to Slide 21. Let's just look in more detail now at the new Scheme options and what a new Scheme could mean for our shareholders. The new Scheme proposal has been shaped by the feedback we received from the ICC. Specifically, its strong preference to receive cash in the shortest time frame possible and not to have to wait for either a share of Amigo's future profits or receive an equity stake. So we've provided the ICC with 2 options for a Scheme of arrangement. The first, the new business Scheme would be contingent on Amigo being able to execute a successful equity raise and be permitted by the FCA to return to lending. This is our preferred option as the Board considers it to provide more value and more certainty to redress creditors. The second option would be a managed wind-down of the Amigo Loans business within the Scheme framework. Under the managed wind-down Scheme, the business will be wound-down with any surplus money after the repayment of the bonds, the cost and expenses being paid to redress creditors. While we believe this would be preferable to an insolvent administration, the inherent uncertainty associated with the recovery of the loan book in a wind down means the actual outcome of the scheme and payments to creditors cannot be guaranteed. So as Mike said earlier, the cash contribution to Scheme 2 will look significantly more generous than scheme 1 largely due to the time that has passed since we first developed Scheme 1 back in December last year and the greater clarity we have both on COVID impact and on our future business plan. So what does this mean for all our shareholders? A potential material dilution is a difficult but necessary consequence of our situation. It's not where we wanted to be. The truth is there is no alternative. Both the court and the Customer Committee guided by the court were clear that there needed to be a balance between creditor and shareholder outcomes. The judge was crystal clear on this point, and an equity raise is needed to fund a future business, without which Amigo will be unable to fund adequate redress. A small part of the equity raise will also fund an additional payment to the Scheme. Without it, there is no way forward and the business will either go into a managed wind-down or insolvency, both of which are worst outcome for shareholders. We hope that as many shareholders as possible will invest in our new lending proposition, which will seek to fulfill the promise of improving financial inclusion with increased affordability and flexibility over the term as customers repay their loans. We recognize this is an incredibly challenging situation for all stakeholders. But as we have noticed on many occasions, we are an insolvent business. So there are no easy path forward if we want to avoid administration. And now if we move on to Slide 22, which is what our return to lending might look like. As well as developing new Scheme options, the management team has continued to advance the lending proposition with the help of an external panel of experts, we have created an innovative new customer-centric proposition designed to encourage healthy credit habits and to reward good payment behavior by customers. We plan to relaunch lending with a revised guarantor loan product under the Amigo brand along with 2 further products: a guarantor, and an unsecured personal loan with dynamic price reductions under a new brand. But, and this is important to stress, we have some considerable hurdles to cross before we can do this. The FCA has been very clear that they will only consider a restart to lending if a new Scheme is sanctioned. We will also need to raise both debt and equity to fund the business. So now let's finish on the final slide, Slide 23, summary and outlook. As a Board, we are committed to satisfying our obligations to all our stakeholders in the most equitable way possible and to our purpose of enabling financial inclusion for those locked out of mainstream providers. Whilst our cash position remained strong at more than GBP 260 million, Amigo continues to operate with significant financial constraints, including net liabilities of almost GBP 120 million. Ultimate asset realization depends on our ability to continue to collect the loan book and the challenges with this continue. In conclusion, there can be none other than material uncertainties remain. The continuation of the Amigo business is dependent on a successful Scheme outcome and the FCA allowing us to resume lending. Our ability to raise both equity and debt and a satisfactory resolution of the ongoing FCA investigation. So with that, I will now open the call to questions. We'll first take questions from the phone line and then move to addressing questions from the webcast. Nadia, if I could ask you to invite the questions, please.

[Operator Instructions] And our first question today on the phone line comes from Mandeep Jagpal of RBC Capital Markets.

Two questions for me, please. You've mentioned that the continuation of the business depends on a few things. And one of them was the FCA allowing Amigo to resume lending. It would be useful to get an idea of how that conversation is progressing. I won't give you confidence that the new lending proposal and affordability framework will ultimately gain approval from the FCA? That's the first question. And the second question is just on timing and when we can expect Amigo to return to lending? Clearly, there are a few moving parts here, such as the venture new scheme and need approval of -- the FCA they need to give approval under the capital raise. But any indication on the current best estimate for that would be appreciated.

Mandeep, thanks very much for those questions. I mean, the second one is the easiest to answer. We will be allowed to -- the FCA will consider allowing us to return to lending only if and when the scheme is sanctioned. So we're not going to be returning to lending until post the sanctioned hearing date. In terms of the first point in FCA engagements, I mean, it would be wrong of me to be presumptuous about their intentions. But all I can say is that we've had very frequent and constructive conversations with the FCA about Amigo's return to lending, we shared with them our details of our new propositions. And they are working on that, but they haven't given any commitment either way. But I'm very pleased to say at least we've had good engagement with them in parallel with the discussions of the scheme.

Our next question comes from Tomas Mannion of Sarria.

You talked about if and when you possibly will return to lending that you will need an equity rate and a debt rate, do you envisage debt rate beyond the securitization? Or are you talking about just the securitization initially?

Yes, Tomas, I think all options are still on the table from a debt perspective, both in terms of current secured bonds, and securitization and all other [indiscernible] all other funding search. So we are still considering all debt options.

Get. But just for clarity, the current secured bonds will need to approve in their own client side of Scheme of arrangement. Correct?

Sorry, can you repeat that question? That the bonds would have to...

Under the Scheme of arrangement you'll need creditor approval, the bondholders will vote as one class?

Well, the bondholders don't formally vote on the scheme. We obviously will engage with the bondholders and make sure that the bondholders fully understand what the Scheme entails and what we're doing. And there will be a fairness opinion under the terms of the bond for that. So -- and that's really not different or not changed from where we're at in the first Scheme.

And our next question comes from Peter Cuckovic of SC LOWY.

I've got a couple of questions. The first one is -- and I'm sorry, I joined 15 minutes late to the call. Did you mention the size of the equity check that you're planning to raise?

No, the guidance we put in the RNS in outlining the future business plans. We put an estimated number in there of a capital need of GBP 300 million. But at this point, we haven't broken that down in terms of how that would break down between equity and debt.

Sure, sure. Okay. So it would be fair to say GBP 100 million of equity and GBP 200 million of debt or some mix within the GBP 300 million. And do you have an anchor for the equity raise or indicative underwrite perhaps from a third party?

No. We're in sort of fairly preliminary stages of looking into that. We have had expressions of interest from a number of parties, but it's very, very preliminary stages at this point.

Okay. And just to confirm, the -- all of the equity rights stay with the existing equity, right? There's no leakage in that sense. Just to..

Yes that's correct.

I think that's it for now.

Again, I said, correct. That's based on an assumption from the Scheme perspective that the...

No, of course, that you'll be able to continue is a going concern. That's fully understood.

[Operator Instructions] At this time, we have no audio questions. So I'll hand the call back over to Amigo's team to go through any webcast questions.

Thank you. Yes. We do have a number of questions. Some have been answered already through similar questions being asked on the call. And so I'll go into [indiscernible]. Can you please comment on plans for your unrestricted cash position? Do you intend to pay down the bond in full which is to set down in January?

Thanks for the question. So no firm decisions in terms of what we will do with the bonds, as we've outlined here, our cash position is such that we have cash that's in excess of the bond liability. But we're having to sort of look and manage at what our cash forecast and projections are and timing of those, both in respect of payments and contributions into the Scheme and finalizing what those amounts will be and the timing of those amounts. And equally, the current level of bonds, clearly, that debt at the moment is more than we need in the short term when relending resumes. So as I say, we're working through the options, but no final decision has been taken at this point as the amount that will be paid down on the bond.

One other question from SQ. When do we expect the issue of the PSL? Will it be in December this year?

Thanks for the question. I wish I could answer that. It's not in our gift to determine the date. We have to get the final terms agreed by the Independent Customer Committee. They are considering it right now, and we're very hopeful we'll get a response from them. And once they do give us a response, we have to then share the final terms with the Financial Conduct Authority and reasonably, they need a decent period of time to be able to review it. So Wednesday is the 1st of December, then I suppose 3 weeks after that, we're into Christmas period. So if we don't get it out in good time for Christmas, we're going to be issuing it in the new year. But at the moment, it's out of our hands, I'm afraid.

A question from the same person, what is the managed wind-down and what was the impact to shareholders be?

Yeah, I'll take that. So managed wind-down as distinct from going through an insolvency group would be an assumption that the Board effectively would retain. Control over the management and collect out of the loan book. We would be talking about a managed wind-down of the regulated entity, which is Amigo Loans Limited. So that doesn't necessarily mean a wind-down of the whole group. If -- so coming back to the second part of that question on impact on shareholders, it would really be determined on where we get to with new lending. If we were to do a wind-down, a managed wind down, then we would have to look to do lending through another entity, which we'd have to go through the process of authorizing another regulated entity.

Back the capital grade, will the new share issue be underwritten by a firm commitment by all unfold shares? Or is it best effort?

Well, I think that similar question was asked earlier. So as I said, we are following up on some expressions of interest. It will be something we are exploring and we'll look at in terms of ability to potentially sort of backstop the shares at the right time or fully take them [ out ].

Could you please -- this is a question from [indiscernible]. Could you please comment on the timing of the FCA investigation in the handing of redress claims and lending practices and whether you're planning to rectify with the Scheme or will it be left outstanding? And if so, whether it will be against old or new Amigo?

Yes, I'll take that. I mean, the -- we've got 2 FCA investigations. One was launched in May '20 and the other one in March '21. And it's a very slow process. We've engaged extensively with the enforcement teams at the FCA, and we're working through every question they ask us, we provide the information. We've provided them a huge bundle of stuff and they're still working their way through it. It takes time. And we're in their hands as to how it might get resolved. But we're trying to -- we've talked to the supervisory team about it in the FCA. We're trying to wrap the things up together because it's going to be very difficult for us to do a capital raise when we've got the threat of enforcement actions hanging over us. So I think the FCA supervision understands that it will be -- provide more clarity for stakeholders if we kind of concluded the investigations. But as I say, yet another factor that's outside our control.

And a question from [indiscernible]. What is the proposed new cash contribution in the revised proposal?

Well, the contribution is still under discussion. We've made a revised proposal as we say to the customer committee, and are waiting finalizing a response and agreed with them, I think once we have an agreed number. Obviously, we'll update the market on that. But at this point, it's still uncertain.

A second question from [indiscernible]. How much cash do you need to run the business looking forward as you see trying to work out what financing should look like 2 to 3 months out?

Well, I think we've given some guidance in terms of estimated volumes. So from a cash need perspective, obviously, that drives the cash need [ of our ] as that loan book is built back up. From an operating expense perspective, we wouldn't expect it to be significantly different from what our current run rates are. Obviously, there will be some increases in cash needs around the start of relending, but really, we haven't sort of provided any more specifics than that. But I think in general, the guidance that we put in the RNS, I think most people could try to model what that might look like in terms of cash needs.

I think we've got time for just one more question. So I will just quickly -- and can you give any color on why the lines were effect in...

Yes. A couple of weeks ago, we closed the telephone lines, and we closed the office at 03:45 on Thursday, but that's because we wanted to take time out to share the new customer proposition with all our employees. So we had -- we've got just over 200 people left in Amigo now and pretty much all were able to attend an event where we could share with them what the future proposition look like. So nothing sinister. It was all about looking forward to the future to give our people hope that as and when we're allowed to get back to lending, it will be a good customer proposition. So nothing more than that.

Great. I think that is all the time we have left. If people do have other questions, please do e-mail us on our [email protected].

Good. Thank you very much to all of you for dialing in, and thanks for your questions, and thanks for listening.

Yes. Thank you.

Thank you.