Andritz AG (ANDR) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Yes. Thank you very much for the introduction. Welcome also from my side to all of you. It's been 2 years now since our last Capital Markets Day. And I'm sure these 2 years has not only been interesting for us but also for you. I think in hindsight, it sounds a little bit, let's say, unusual, but I really think that the things that we had to face last year and that we had overcome last year, really sort of rejuvenated ANDRITZ. And I think the results that you see and have seen in the first half year -- first half of this year, I think, confirm that, that we will have not only come through the difficult time reasonably well, but also that now with the upswing in the economy, we are really benefiting from that. We'd like to go for I was a little bit euphemistic about my role here in this introduction. That is I really were an appetizer for you. And what you hear from me may sound more or less more of the same, basically over the last several years. But I can assure you that I'm very confident that in the 7 presentations of my colleagues on their respective businesses, you will get a lot of meat, a lot of substance on what we plan and why we are reasonably optimistic and cautiously optimistic for the future. And I look forward to listening to these presentations and obviously also to the discussions. I would like to start with a sort of reality check. What have we communicated 2 years ago at our last Capital Markets Day in terms of goals for the next 2, 3 years, and what have we achieved. On the left side, you'll see the targets. And, let's say, a rough assessment of what the status of that. And to start quickly, we said we wanted to promote organic growth by intelligent mill services and also further expanding our operations and maintenance business. We have successfully launched Metris UX, This DCS software, operations software. This does not add hundreds of millions to our top line, but it's very important to leverage our complete equipment, our processes and taking them into the digital world. On the O&M business side, Hydro has been very successful to grow this business organically. They are running tens of hydro power plants remotely from our center in Italy. And this has become a very important business, and we're very confident it will continue to be an important business growth area for ANDRITZ. On the external growth side, we have done several smaller acquisitions. You can see a list on the right side, just to mention a few. KEMPULP is a company that offers the same washing technology as our main competitor in the pulp area. So with that, we have now not only our -- what we feel leading and advantageous washing technology with so-called DD-Washers, but we also are able to offer a lower cost or benefit with this wash process with certain disadvantages but also certain advantages. So basically we have a menu to offer to our customers, which certainly broadens our attractiveness to customers that traditionally have concentrated and provided on this wash press technology. With Laroche and other important acquisitions, you will hear more about that in the presentation of my colleague, Joachim. Takes us along with -- does not only broaden our nonwoven product range, but also takes us into textile recycling, an area that has received a lot of attention from the European Union. And therefore, we consider it to be a very attractive growth area. From GE, we had other acquisitions. The electrostatic precipitator business, which is a nice complement to our offering on the recovery side of the pulp mills. Service business has continued to grow. It's on a good track also after the first half of this year, as you see. So I think good progress there. Group profitability, we have made good progress on the turnaround in the Metals Forming and also, to a certain extent, Metals Processing business area. We're not yet there. Clearly, there is a gap to fill over the next few years. And Domenico Iacovelli will certainly give you a lot of evidence why he's very confident that he can make a progress in the future on that. On Pulp & Paper, we have increased our EBITA margin target to 10% to 11%. Hydro has been successful in securing their profitability in spite of continuously shrinking sales. And the Separation, obviously, is maybe small, but clear success story with the increase in profitability over the last several quarters. On the next page, cost deviations. I think this achieved maybe a little bit optimistic. I think this is something that every -- each and every company in our field has to continue to do for the future. It's a constant struggle to try to avoid cost overruns in a very demanding, difficult environment with geographic challenges on respective construction site with very big risks that you have to take, and very little time to execute these orders without running into a delay in this. So I think, yes, we have made progress, but that certainly will continue to be a challenge. And last but not least, the -- let's say, the continuing or introduced integration of our group with Schuler. We have succeeded with the squeeze-out, which has allowed us really to do this very substantial restructuring that you will get also some data on that later on. We have reorganized our corporate structure in various areas, in various countries with a goal to decrease our efficiency and become leaner, but not leaner, so to say. Yes, on the next page, I think we give you some development over the last 2 years, starting with the order intake. Obviously, 2020 has been impacted by COVID. But on the other side, if you compare it to 2019, you have to keep in mind that 2019 has been exceptionally -- an exceptional year regarding the order intake of EUR 7.3 billion, thanks to EUR 1.4 billion of large orders, bigger than EUR 100 million. The comparison is maybe not really, to say, typical or a concern. I think if you look at this regular order level, which declined from EUR 5.9 billion to EUR 5.4 billion, EUR 5.5 billion, I think this 10% decline is owed to the complications due to COVID. And I think that first half year, this year has shown, is that there is a really very impressive pick up of our business. So we have achieved EUR 3.6 billion in the first half year without having obtained any large order bigger than EUR 100 million, which obviously is very good for the order book, very good from a risk standpoint and to be honest, also good from a gross margin in order intake standpoint. Next page. One example that COVID has not only created challenges for us but also has created opportunities for us. Our nonwoven business area, which typically was around EUR 200 million, maybe EUR 250 million in 2019 went up to nearly EUR 500 million in order intake last year because of the [ pull ] of nonwoven equipment having been sold to cover all these needs for medical clothing, wipes, et cetera, et cetera. And in addition and as we referred to it already in our quarterly informations, our recently acquired some 2, 3 years ago, Diatec subsidiary has been exceptionally fast, developed a high-speed face mask processing or production line for the production of disposable masks. They started after having revealed their pilot line to produce masks for our whole group, which at that time, was being a scarce resource. And then started to sell these production lines. I think so far, we have sold now 35 of these mask production lines globally. And that certainly has been very success story. Next page. So to show you also the numbers, you see 2020 regarding EBITA, adjusted EBITA, but also after non-operating expenses has held up very nicely. So we increased our EBITA from EUR 340 million to EUR 390 million, 7%. And net income, also up from EUR 120 million to EUR 200 million. We paid a dividend. If you remember, there's been a big discussion if the company should pay dividends during these times. We have decided to reduce the dividend to sort of stay within the mainstream but clearly, we have committed the type of share that we consider to be -- requires a, let's say, a sustainable and reliable dividend policy. And because of that, we take this also reduced dividend of about EUR 50 million. And for the beginning of this year or spring of this year, we pay to remain back to EUR 1 per share for the business year of 2020, noting for this EUR 99 million. Net liquidity through these times held up very nicely, is at a good level now, and hopefully, will continue there also going forward. Overall 2020, I would say, encouraged us to avoid saying forced us, encouraged us to really look at our cost structure to adjust very quickly. You see here the numbers with regard to employees. So overall, on a global scale, we reduced by 10% within last year and beginning in the middle of this year. And you see also the differentiation between minus 5% in Pulp & Paper and minus 18% in Metals Forming. Metals Processing, similar, minus 17%, and the others minus 8%, minus 10%. I think in hindsight, we did the right thing. We -- in spring, we discussed what should be our game plan, which is our expectation for the rest of 2020. And we had agreed that there will be decline in order intake, there will be decline in revenues also to a certain extent, which, in the end, we utilized by the way. And therefore, we took advantage of temporary supports like short workweek, et cetera, in the respective countries. But at the same time, decided we consider that only as a, let's say, as a transition help, but we want to adjust permanently to be [ taken ] this reduction to be effective by the end of last year, in this amount of about 10%. And I think that turned out to be not easy to realize, but to be very successful. And so as I said, to rejuvenate us as a company and to be in a very good starting position this year when the economy has picked up and hopefully, will continue to proceed on a good pace. On the right side, you see -- on the right side, you see employees by region. Obviously, the majority of the reduction is in the developed countries in Europe and in North America and substantially less in the other areas. Next page. Yes, I think in hindsight, you see here the development of EBITA margin before and after nonoperating expenses on operating income. So reasonably stable and with good development since 2019 up until the first half of this year. Next page. Just some important orders. We received huge pulp mill orders from the APRIL Group in Asia, from Klabin [indiscernible] and [indiscernible] in Brazil, from Klabin and Bracell, UPM has decided to build another pulp milling Uruguay. These mills, we either build completely or at a large extent. And Bracell order is one of the biggest pulp mills in the world and the biggest viscose pulp mill in the world which is now startup. First line has already been started up as communicated by our customer and the other one is just a few days before the start of the second line. We received the biggest maintenance order from a pulp mill that we've ever received. It's triple-digit for 7 years, I think. And it also shows that we clearly are dominating the global market for maintenance of pulp mills, which is a good business for us and keeps us in the pulp mills, enables us to see and experience the challenges of the operators and that enables us to develop, hopefully, better and better products that are more automated, that are easier to operate at lower costs, lower direct costs, lower maintenance costs, et cetera. On the power boiler side, where we build boilers based on biomass, we have continued a strong order intake. We are a market-leader in Japan, of all countries with their own very strong domestic boiler industry. So again, that has been a continuation of the success story. And the last bullet point I'm about to [ take on ] is typical for the communication that our customers have developed, really just building a pulp mill anymore, he's building a biorefinery, which the main product is pulp, but there are many other products that are produced in a sustainable and renewable raw material basis. And for example, the sulfuric acid or also biomethane or any other byproducts that can become quite interesting sizable product in the future. Hydro has a successfully sold a pump, a pump storage turbine, to a company in Dubai. You can be sure we checked it. Yes, they have water, and they can run this pumped storage hydro power plant. We built the largest pump storage plant in India. We also built in Australia one of the first coupled renewable energy, renewable electricity combined with the pump storage batteries, so to say, in Australia, which shows the potential for hydropower that lies in the home of solar in wind electricity production. And we entered into an agreement with Mercedes-Benz for operating the field of large battery, stable storage systems. Let's see what the outcome of that will be. On the right side, Metals. Obviously, we continue to be a very important supplier to the leading battery-powered car manufacturers in the world, whether it's Volkswagen, whether that's other companies, U.S. companies, Chinese companies, we have finally succeeded to sell our globally leading tailored welded blank laser welding systems also to a Japanese, and the third leading Japanese car manufacturer, Toyota, in North America. Big breakthrough. And also really leading. And for companies that want to use this leading technology, [ unavoidable to say ], they need to buy it from ANDRITZ. We sold some rolling and annealing and picking line to Jindal Stainless in India and also one of the largest melting furnace for aluminum to China. So a lot of interesting projects just to give you the flavor of what we are doing. Next page. Yes, we have our ESG strategy or position defined. I would say it's rather easy for us because we are a green company, and we'll give a few more information in a second. So we defined our goals on the environmental side, on the social side and also on the corporate governance side. I expect you see the goals so we can commit to reduce our greenhouse gas emissions by 50% until the mid-20s, reduce the waste volume, reduce lost time accident frequency rate, where we are already quite good, I would say, but we definitely have defined a quite ambitious goal to continue to improve in this respect. We want to reduce water consumption, we want to get 50% of revenue from sustainable solutions and products and also have the vast majority of our suppliers, have been audited by 2025. On the next page, some examples of why we think we are a green company. Pulp & Paper is, obviously -- is a discussion I have with my team, I think. All our sales, which are owing to 50% of the overall group sales are based on renewal resource, everything comes from wood. The products that are produced are recyclable. Pulp & Paper is recyclable. Biomass is sustainable. So I would say this is completely a green product, might be some different definitions based on some of the companies that are following us on that. Metals obviously with the battery cases and lightweight materials, ANDRITZ Metals business area is leading in this advanced high strength steel production and processing. Joachim will give us some more details on that. Hydro is this 100% renewable. Separation, wastewater treatment activities are renewable. And automation, obviously, also. So I would say that 45% is very conservative. I rather think it's [ 2/3 and ] more that already of our current revenues is sustainable and renewable. Then quickly to the road map. And again, I think this is just a little appetizer for you and you will get the substance behind that by my colleagues. I think we have covered our achievements already on the left side. The road ahead is more of the same. It's that we want to grow. We are confident we can grow organically. We want to increase the share of green products, which in Pulp & Paper capital is easy as I outlined. Textile recycling is a very distinct area. There will be an EU regulation in place in a few years that prohibits the destruction of unused textiles or returned textiles from the Internet companies, and that should provide us a very good business opportunity, thanks to the acquisition of Laroche that we have made because of that, obviously, because of our assessment. And our goal to develop the autonomous pulp mill is a long-term goal. We are making good progress on that. Again, you will hear details on that. Next page. On the Service side, similar. We want to continue to grow faster than the market, 2x to 3x its base, maintain the high profitability, organic expansion. I think some of the -- or many of our products can grow organically. And also the acquisition of Xerium definitely offers very good opportunities for organic growth because before the acquisition into ANDRITZ, Xerium has not had the means to take advantage of investment opportunities to expand capacity there in both the Rolls business, but also the Fabrics business. M&A will continue to play a role. We definitely are on the lookout for acquisitions in this Pulp & Paper service area. Metals Forming. As I said, we are in the middle of the restructuring. We've made good progress. We are above the borderline line, so to say. Now we need to stabilize that and make gradually progress towards regular profitability up 6%, 7%. I think there are good plans in place, and we will hear more about that later. E-mobility offers very good advantages for us, for Schuler, both within the automotive industry but also outside the non-automotive business, we see good opportunities to add one or the other EUR 100 million to the top line for Schuler. Share of service obviously needs to be expanded with a good profitability side effect. Metals Processing has adjusted quite well and very sizable. The project execution is an issue there -- continues to be an issue there. Service, we have made a few acquisition that so far have not fulfilled what we have expected. But with the restructuring, we are now -- that is now underway, I'm confident that we can create growth there and also get profitability up to the level that is -- that we expect from the Service business area. Green hydrogen is the substance behind that, definitely substance. And you will hear why we feel that we are well positioned based on what we have done in the past to participate in this growing market, both in the Metals Processing side but also in the Metals Forming side and to a certain extent also in the Hydro product side. On the Separation side, next -- sorry, Hydro. Yes, I think it's stabilizing profitability, high profitability. There are -- if all the expectations of converting electricity production to renewable resources come through, hydrogen has a great future. And this is just from the conversion of all the coal-fired power plants. In addition, this green hydrogen creates a huge demand on green electricity. It's huge. It's difficult to imagine given that you can't provide this green electricity to produce green hydrogen in a sufficient volume. But I think we have everybody [ risk ] green hydrogen will play a role, and we are confident that Hydro is necessary to provide this electricity capacity. Service also is to be expanded there. And Separation. We have entered using the successful development. Including digital products, we have entered and are about to enter in some very interesting growth areas like non-animal proteins; the E-mobility with our products with lithium; mining industry where all the leading lithium producers, of lithium mine companies are customers of our Separation business area. They have plans to become more of a process solution provider as opposed to a machine unit provider. There is already some new products, service-related offers, also growth opportunities. Together with the M&A goals, our sight is towards the EUR 1 billion area for this whole business area, including the [ feed ] subpart. It will not be done in the next 2 years, but we are confident we can make good progress towards this EUR 1 million goal. And finally, the summary, so to say, of the commitment of my colleagues. So for Pulp & Paper, we confirm our profitability goal of 10% to 11%; for Metals, 6% to 7%. Obviously, there is a gap and expect, hopefully, step-by-step progress, don't expect a jump to the old profitability. Hydro has committed to, we say, to stabilize profitability is 7 to 8.5 percentage range. Some increase in the top line, obviously, would help Hydro to achieve that. And Separation is on a very good development since 2018. And because of that, and to keep them awake, we have decided to increase profitability growth from 8% to 9% to 9% to 11% now. If all of that, what I have outlined and what we will get more details immediately comes through, what would it mean for our group? It would mean a business volume well above the EUR 7 billion mark. If we would include some moderate M&A success, this will take our top line towards the EUR 8 billion mark. We would expect EBITA margin to be at a solid 8%. What does solid means? Solid means that the majority of time, we should have 8% or 8% plus. And our net income, as [ overlooked ], our CFO, Norbert, who has -- makes other things concentrated on reducing the gap between EBITA and net income. So we expect the net income to increase to better than 5%. And obviously, we will continue on our M&A strategy. We are not going to diversify. We see sufficient growth opportunities also on the M&A side within our existing business areas. And last but not least, hopefully, we can make progress regarding our ESG goals and targets. So much for my introduction. We created a 5 minute overrun. But that's from my side and enjoy all the presentations of my colleagues, and I will then wrap up in my end and we may have then some more general discussions after all the other presentations. Thank you.

Thank you very much, Wolfgang. Now we will open up the Q&A session. We have a question from Sven Weier from UBS.

So my question would be around the margin target that you've just mentioned. You said a solid 8%. I think in the CFO slides, I think you say, 8% to 9%. I guess this year, you will already be around 8%. So should we look at the 8% rather as a bit of a floor, even if times are a bit tougher, and the 9%, if you really go to the EUR 7.5 billion, which would be quite a positive scenario?

Yes, I think the 9% are obviously a demanding goal. I would not promise you that we will never go below the 8%. I think that would be unrealistic. But I think it is what I said, it's -- we are really -- we feel confident that we should be sustainably at 8% or above.

Any other question from the auditorium? Okay. Then we will continue with the Pulp & Paper Capital business with Joachim Schonbeck. Just give me a minute.

Okay. So good morning from my side, Pulp & Paper Capital. To make a quick recap of what happened over the last 3 years, we managed to take the Pulp & Paper business above the EUR 3 billion threshold. Last year, we had revenue of EUR 3.3 billion and we will work to keep it to keep above the EUR 3 billion. The power market, and we had an extremely good development the last 3 years. We could increase business volume by 70%, and that was mainly driven by the energy, new energy strategy in Japan, which is, to a large extent, built on biomass boilers, where we have a solid market share. The profitability of the combined Pulp & Paper, we could constantly increase from 9.4% now first half of this year to 10.4% EBITA margin. Unfortunately, a turnaround in paper technology is still ongoing, but we are working on that. General outlook for Pulp & Paper looks good. We have -- I think that's not new to you. For tissue, containerboard, cartonboard, we have quite a substantial growth, while newsprint is definitely shrinking. On top of that, which is not included here, there is definitely growth potential for replacing many plastic applications through a paper product. A lot of research is going on, on that. Go to the next one. The areas of interest also did not change a lot. So the North America, Western Europe, Japan are shrinking, while China, rest of Asia, but also Latin America, Eastern Europe are substantially growing. ANDRITZ' strong position in the pulp area definitely has been stabilized, but we could extend our leading market position by pushing the targets and pushing the thresholds further to build even larger and more economic partners. This you see on the chart, the ones in South America. The blue ones supplied by ANDRITZ. And you can see that when it comes to large partners, we have a good market position. What is critical to maintain our profitability is to run the projects on time and below budget. And it's a huge undertaking and it takes a lot of effort, a lot of teams. Here, we see example from the Suzano Horizonte 2 project. Entire project can contain more than 1,000 people. Total hours that have been worked on-site has been 15 million. We only had 8 lost time accidents for these working hours, which is really a very good achievement. So keeping our capabilities there is definitely one of the key areas of -- to make our customers happy and also to make our shareholders happy. We definitely distinguish from the rest of our industry that we have usually a much better start-up performance of our pulp mills. This comes, of course, from our experience and that we optimize the processes, but we also see a huge benefit from implementing all these IIoT solutions and our performance management metrics tools really from the -- basically from the first day of the start-up can really start to optimize the plants much faster and better than we can do it traditionally. On top of that, when we have the maintenance contracts with ANDRITZ, usually, the performance is also much better. That leads to the fact that usually already in the second year of the start-up, our mills overachieve the design capacity, which really is an excellent payback for our customers. If you look at 3 major megatrends we see in the industry, the decarbonization, the circular economy and the digitalization, we believe that we at ANDRITZ, we have leading solutions in all these areas. And I will talk to you a bit about that. We start with the decarbonization area. We have -- and Wolfgang already introduced that we have started initiative, what we call CircleToZero, where we would like to move the rest of the pulp mills, which is not yet in circular operation into circular operations and take a better utilization of side streams and to create new value-added products. What's the -- so what is the program about? We would -- pulp mill that is without any waste or any emissions. We would like to reuse the chemicals that are used. And we would like to turn all side streams into value-added products. The strategy how we're going to do this is we would like to utilize the existing side streams into products and remove or recycle all non-process elements from that process. So we do not start from scratch. We already have the first 2 applications running. The first production of biomethanol, where we have a -- what is the byproduct from the evaporator. There, we have the first plant in operation. Go back, please. So we have the first plant already in operation in Södra in Sweden, and that is delivering quite promising results. And then we have the production of sulfuric acid, which we -- which we get from the noncondensable gases from the pulp operation and there we have the -- now I cannot see the presentation. Can you go back to sharing? So the first sulfuric acid plant is under construction in Brazil. But you see this is only -- this is only a start and many more products will come. Next one. So if we look at the total methanol demand, for example, which is about 100 million tons a year. And out of that, 35% is coming from coal, 65% from natural gas and only 1%, which is about 1 million ton, is coming from renewable sources. The pulp industry, if we only look at the large pulp mills in the world, they have upward potential of about 1 million tons of high-quality biomethanol, which can be easily produced from the -- as a byproduct. And as I said, this is a byproduct, which today is burned in the boilers of the mill, yes. But there is -- these are good products to really make a more sustainable industry out of the Pulp & Paper. All these products, which we are developing, they should have a return of investment of about 3 to 5 years. That's our target in order to make it also economically feasible. Next one. We -- as Wolfgang said, we acquired from the market leader GE, the industrial dedusting business, electrostatic precipitators, switch-integrated rectifiers and fabric filters to complete our portfolio in the air pollution control on the dust division. We have access to the installed base of more than 2,000 plants, and we believe that not only in Pulp & Paper, but Steel and Metals, Energy and Cement, we have strong growth opportunities there. As we look to the circular economy, definitely the most important step here is the acquisition we did last year of the company, Laroche, which was founded in 1927 as a company for recycling textiles. So there is about 100 years' experience in recycling textiles. And looking at the portfolio of Laroche, it offers fiber opening and blending, and that will complement our product portfolio for the nonwovens business. Then we have the textile recycling where we see a lot of business opportunity as there will be a ban on burning or landfilling used or unused textiles in the EU. So a lot of opportunities coming up there. And the third leg of that company is natural fiber processing, where also a lot of activity will go on because we see a lot of movement in the textile area where this natural fiber processing will be a key element. The nonwoven business of us definitely has taken huge advantage of the pandemic and as the demand on hygiene products really leapfrogged. And you can see that here, the revenue and you might be -- you might have to take a very close look because the column on the right-hand side only shows half the year. And you can see that already after half a year, the revenue of the -- it's already above EUR 200 million. So we definitely are growing here faster than the market. And that's what we'd like to achieve. Through our company, Diatec, we took opportunity of the pandemic's need for a face mask machine. We took a head-start in development in April last year. The machine and the process design was finished within 6 weeks. And after that, we already had within 3 weeks more than 100 project requests. And up to date, already more 30 face mask machine are in operation. It's a fully automated machine so it can be -- can be taken care of by one operator only, which makes it extremely economical. The high-speed operation produces up to 600 pieces per minute, which is a bit above 750,000 a day, which is a solid production. So looking into development in textile. We can see here on the left-hand side, you can see the distribution of textile materials. And you can see that the majority is based on fossil resources. And then we have wool, cotton and cellulosic fibers, which is basically representing the natural and sustainable fibers. On the right-hand side, you can see a graphic where we have plotted the water requirement per kilo of fiber. And you can see that on viscose, which is the cellulosic-based fibers you need 300 liters of water; while for cotton, you need 12,000 liters of water. And that is a substantial drawback, and we can expect that in the future, growth potential for viscose fiber based on cellulose will grow much faster than cotton because the restrictions in -- for areas and land and water for the cotton will limit further growth. Next one. On the textile side, I think it's interesting for you to know that a lot of development is going on to make -- to produce textile, basically yarns, on to 3 different routes. The first is the text -- recycled paper; second is the textile waste; and the third is the wood. So that would be the viscose roll. And ANDRITZ is involved in 8 different projects because we believe all are feasible, and we don't know which technology will prevail but we are very confident that there will be huge changes in that industry. And we believe with the technologies we have, we are well positioned to be there and to be ready when the market is picking up. As mentioned by Wolfgang, the largest dissolving pulp mill in the world just started up last week on September 9. It's a 2-swing pulp lines with continuous digesters, which can either produce 2.8 million tons of bleached kraft pulp or 1.5 million tons of dissolving pulp or a combination of both because the plant is designed in a way that we can produce kraft pulp on one line and dissolving pulp on the other line. For dissolving pulp production, it's a major scale up by a factor of 3. But as we can see so far, technology is under control and is running quite well. This mill will add approximately 15% of the global capacity in dissolving pulp. And that really -- you can see from that investment, that there is a growing demand. And there is specifically a growing demand according to our customer, from their customers from the fashion retail chains, H&M, whatever they are. So we believe that out of that, we will see a major boost of all of these tree to textile activities and with this technology, we are really well positioned. Coming to digitalization. Automation solution, you will hear separately from Wolfgang Semper. If we look to special applications in Pulp & Paper, this Metris OPP, basically our key application for asset performance management, is a huge success. We have more than 70 contracts in 15 different countries. And basically, everybody who started with this, stayed with it. All these contracts are basically performance-based so we proved improvements through this -- through our software and our services, and we get [indiscernible] but it's a very sustainable business model. If you go to the next one, autonomous operation, we are -- we have the target to develop the fully autonomous pulp mill. We are not there yet. But you can see that on the different levels, we are moving constantly towards that. I would say we are somewhere between hands off and eyes off of today. And mind off might come and will come maybe within the next couple of years. This is driven, first of all, by the fact that we see from our experience that the higher the automation mode is in the operation, the better essentially the output because the interference of the operators do not always benefit the total process. The second driver is the strong request from our customers. We see that a huge know-how drain will happen within the next couple of years and working in industrial environment is not very attractive for the young generation. So they expect that they also have less capabilities available over the next years. And this is why they are really going into this direction. We already have supplied a couple of biomass power plants, which operating basically already mind off. They are attended by operators only from Monday to Friday in a 1-shift operation. And during the rest of the day, of the weekend, they are controlled by a central control center several hundred kilometers away, and that is running very stable since already a couple of years. And also, on the mechanical side of our business we are striving for autonomous operation. But also on the mechanical side of our business, we are striving for autonomous operation. Here, you have a very nice example of the artificial intelligence-based solution for a log yard, which is basically the first step in a pulp mill process where the logs are coming into the plant and then will be loaded to the wood yard where they are put down to chips. And of course, first and foremost, you are saving the crane operators. You are saving -- you're increasing safety in your operation because you're getting rid of all the truck drivers when you move to a crane. But on the other side, a significant benefit comes from the fact that once you have this artificial intelligence solution included exactly where you have which log in the log yard, and you can manage much better to put the same qualities, the same sizes together, and you can gain significant advantage in the downstream process in the wood yard but specifically in the fiber line in the cooking stage. So you increase pulp properties. You increase yields. You decrease losses. And so we believe this is definitely a future in the, how to operate a modern pulp mill. We have one installation already under commissioning that's in the U.S., and we have one order in manufacturing for the EU, which will start up next year. Looking to cyber security, which is a requirement if we want to go to autonomous operation customers. Have to rely more on the operation, which also requires a higher degree of -- on security and safety in that respect. We need to be able to access the -- our customer sites from our product terms , our performance centers that we have set up. And also, the customer needs to be sure that we are not violating their IT security through these connections. And this is why the ANDRITZ joint venture, Otorio, developed basically 3 products to support that business. One major difference, which you might or might not be aware of between the IT side and the OT side in cyber security is that on the OT side, you cannot update your software security patch, which you usually do for your iPhones and your computer on a regular base. On the production network, that is not possible. First of all, in many operations, you have certified processes where you would do certification, have to redo everything again. But secondly, you cannot be sure that with this security patch that your processes will really run as they are. And so there is a significant danger involved there. So we need different solutions, and this is why we have developed 3 products. The first is what we call spOT, is basically to ensure that we are delivering to the customer a cyber secure machine with controls where no bugs are in or all bugs are fixed, and no harm can be taken into the site to the customer. We can extend that through the spOT software by going into the machines once more once they are installed on a regular base to see whether the configuration is still up to date against the current threats and vulnerabilities that we know in the market because every day, new threats are coming up and new box in the systems and softwares are detected. Next slide, please. The second product is what we call RAM2. That is basically a complete cyber security orchestration platform, which, at the customer premises, basically scans and monitors every second the entire installed base, all assets, including connections, networks, end point protection, firewalls and also the connection these machines have with the customers' IT system. We check it on -- [indiscernible] we check it on a -- frequently against our vulnerability database so that we can see whenever a technician puts in a USB stick into any machine to read something out, we immediately -- it's recognized. It's tracked, yes, and it is taken care of. Of course, traffic between the different assets are recorded, are supervised, are then -- can be managed and informed. We have developed through that, we have what we call playbooks. This is easy-to-read instruction sets that we give to the operator who operate the machine, that they know exactly what they need to do if they run into a cyber security difficult -- threat or a difficult situation. It's a clear escalation behind it when they have to inform whom and at what stage. They would then ask for help from our help center. Next one is the remOT cloud. That is a management platform to secure the remote access. Our customers usually have many vendors from machines, have many vendors for -- also for control systems and each vendor basically requires a remote access. There is a need with our customers to have a central platform to monitor that, to understand who has success rights, to make sure that these access rights can be contained only to the assets that are really taking care of that is controlling who is in, who is not and which data have been gone in and out. And that is a service that is highly needed in the future in order to understand what is going on but also to know if things go wrong, if there is an attack, through which channel this came. So putting that together, we believe we are in a good position to take growth opportunities that there are in our industry over the next years and push the revenue above the EUR 3.5 billion, while the EBITA should stay above the 10%. We would like to increase the share of the service business back to the old levels, and Humbert will more elaborate on what we have in mind there. We would like to grow with the tree to textile and textile recycling opportunities that are there in the market. We definitely want to transfer this biorefinery and CircleToZero into business opportunities for ANDRITZ. We believe there is a huge potential. We need to further improve project management capabilities because that is something, which is so important that you can be sure you really have everything under control. And of course, we continue our endeavor to push the autonomous mill to the next level. Thank you very much. That's so far from Pulp & Paper Capital.

Okay. Thank you very much. First of all, I'd like to apologize for having a problem with switching the slides. It's a technical issue. We tried to resolve that. So our apologies. We are now open for the Q&A session, and we have Andreas Willi. Go ahead, Andreas.

I've got a question on whether you could help us a bit with the revenue breakdown in this [ industry . Where are you in terms of paper versus biomass versus pulp? And maybe it was in nonwoven you already gave us an indication. And maybe also where are we on profitability for these businesses? Is there -- you mentioned that paper is still more of a turnaround. Is there a big margin difference for the other areas if you compare them?

I'm not fully sure I understood everything. So the question was about the difference and different -- difference in the different pulp and paper areas. So I would say we have a good profitability in the pulp area and the nonwovens, and we are still struggling in the paper area.

Then we have Teresa Schinwald from RB International, Teresa, go ahead.

My questions are on the softwood pulp in the textile angle of the growth. So we are going to see 2 million tons of capacity coming onstream right now. Only a few lyocell plants being built and the balance of production capacity in China, the utilization still a bit fragile. What's your horizon for this textile-driven pulp mill demand growth? So when do you think the market can digest the new mill? And frankly, is there enough certified wood for that? And the second one, also on the textile business. How do you plan to tackle the issues with the recycling that are blended fibers and also the chemicals used in the textile processing. Curious on that.

So the -- it is a good question when the next dissolving pulp mill comes onstream. So the one that we are currently starting up will not hit the market because it's to the vast majority of the dissolving pulp will be processed in the customer's own downstream installations, where he also has a clear need from the markets. All the woods that are processed in this start-up in Brazil come from certified forests. And of course, we can believe that almost every operation that has started up in Brazil will have a certification on that. On the textile, the question was about chemicals and sorting. Now the -- there is a various -- and this is why there is a lot of research. There are various ideas how you -- what is the best way to sort and separate the various textiles. There are technologies available and some go off for a chemical recycling and chemical separation. Others go for a -- on the mechanical side. I think both are viable, and we will see which will then -- the technology that will prevail. We are basically with our equipment and technology and know-how and all -- in all these areas. On the growth side, we believe that a huge growth will come if the fossil-based textile fibers will decrease. And we see from the retailers already strong demand to include certain degrees of recycled textiles but also certain degrees of viscose fibers. But of course, here, you don't know it's -- you don't know what is in the future. We believe it is definitely a growth area.

Thank you. Next one, we will have Simon Benneth Smith .

So I was listening to the fact that it's very important for you guys to deliver on time and to budget when you're delivering these big plants. So my question is what is the kind of range of circumstance on your big projects in terms of how narrow is the outcome of meeting timeliness and budget. And what are the biggest risks that you have to contend with to ensure that you do meet those? And added to that, are there any specific risks today from the sort of well-chronicled supply chain issues that seem to be affecting most industries?

Yes. The biggest risk are the ones you don't know and you cannot prepare for. So we did not plan for the COVID. We did not plan for the shutdown of the major Chinese ports, yes. We did not plan for the travel restrictions to our experts, yes. So in the running projects, I believe we mitigated all that quite well. We had a delay on the projects, which are now going onstream, but this was in the range of a couple of weeks, which I believe for a total project time of 2.5 years is acceptable under the circumstances, yes. Of course, it took a lot of effort from our teams, yes. A lot of additional costs, of course, have been involved if you look to the site, which you have to run in Brazil under COVID conditions, yes, with a peak attendance of 12,000 to 15,000, yes, coming in and out every day, having COVID protocols in place, testing, yes, isolating, quarantining, yes. And so I would say that is definitely the biggest threat. But I would say the last 2 years showed that our project teams can handle these risks in a decent way without creating financial nightmare for us.

Do you have to bear the cost of all those...

No, this is shared on -- also with the customer. So part of the cost on the logistics side, they mainly reside with us. But for example, all these COVID protocols at site, that's -- basically that's with the customer, yes.

And you're being affected too badly by the supply chain issues that have been affecting other industries?

No. We are for sure, yes. As I said, high prices -- the rising prices of steel, yes, definitely and the availability of steel, especially in Brazil was a big issue, yes. The closure of the ports definitely have affected our supply chain, but that is -- that needs then a special attention from our logistics teams, yes, but we can handle that.

And the cost of that can be passed through to the client there ]?

That depends on the specifics of the certain event. So -- and then it depends -- every contract is a bit different. Yes. Sometimes the logistics is, on the financial side, with the customer; on the organizational side, with us. Sometimes it's all on us, so it depends from contract to contract.

Thank you very much. Next one, we have Sven Weier from UBS again. Sven, go ahead.

The first one is on the biomethanol that you mentioned and replacing the fuel side. Obviously, in the next few years, we'll have an additional market coming to that from the marine side, which is a 200 million ton market alone. So what capacity do you see in the pulp and paper industry in terms of tons to be made available for biomethanol?

As I said, we see a potential of 1 million ton per year, yes. And that is with an -- if we look at the projects, we carry a payback time of 3 to 5 years depending on size of the equipment. And it's a pure byproduct, yes. And taking that into account, it can really be a very good additional business. We will not drop the methanol market globally with that, yes. But we believe it's exactly what the industry is looking for. Everybody has to do a small step, and we have the -- we need to provide the technologies. And then it's basically on the customers to take it. I see good opportunities, and I would say the social pressure on activities like that would also increase. So then our customers would choose the one where they have an economical benefit plus a relief on the social pressure.

So you see 1 million in total globally for the entire industry.

Yes. That's the potential we see on the current installed base. So -- but of course, with every new plant that we are building, and that also is included in our volume assumption of 3.5 billion . As of then, that, of course, will come on top. Yes.

And you haven't spoken about the pipeline in general for ordinary pulp mills. I mean LatAm seems to be quite strong. So can you give us an update how the pipeline looks for the next few years, how stable it is?

I would say stable, yes.

Stable on a high level, it seems now.

Stable on a rather high level, yes. And a lot of activity is going on in South America. A lot of activity is going on also in China surprisingly.

Thank you, Sven. Next question is from Richard Schramm, HSBC. Richard, go ahead.

Yes. I have a question concerning your target of this 0 waste and 0 emission pulp mill. So can you explain a bit what the time line is for achieving this target here? And how is the usual question, the willingness of customers to, yes, quite obviously, then kick up the higher cost, which might be connected to this development? Do you think there is a clear commitment also on the customer side to grow this way and to be the connected cost package with these efforts here?

Our strategy is basically to focus on those applications like the biomethanol that we just discussed, which has a, I would say, a feasible payback time. We -- our target is 3 to 5 years, which would then mean for the customer an additional investment. That's for sure. But it is not an economical pain because it has a decent payback time. So the risk is then that it's -- that these are new developments, yes, and that's then the question whether the customers are ready to take it. We are -- believe you know that pulp and paper is quite a conservative industry. So a good idea does not fly easily on itself. There needs to be [ controls in this range . But I don't see -- at least what we are concentrating on will not be disrupted too much by the higher cost, rather by the higher investments, yes? But definitely, everything will have a good payback.

Okay. Thank you very much. I would like to then pass on to on Wolfgang for some words.

Yes, just to conclude. And I think the focus of the question says -- demonstrates what -- or confirms that there really has been a sort of transformation of our Pulp & Paper business area from concentrating the question on this, let's say, conventional way from -- out to paper imports and what is growing in paper and what is [indiscernible] in paper and what is growing import . All the other streams that Joachim has outlined, starting with this biorefinery, with this biomass, with this dissolving pulp going into viscose fiber, it may have peaked this year because this year probably can account to nearly half of Pulp & Paper Capital volume, not far away from that. But definitely, it will continue especially in this textile side also. And just to make it very clear, this investment -- these are attractive investments with a good payback. No customer would -- well, maybe they would, but they are not -- we do not require customers to invest to accept low returns in favor of creating a good environmental track record. These are -- these things make a very good business sense; and therefore, we consider them to be long-term businesses, to a certain extent, driven by regulations maybe in the kind of case of recycling of textiles. But the rest is good business, reducing products for existing real commercial markets.

Okay. We've received one more question from Peter Roger Rothenaicher from Baader-Helvea. Peter, go ahead.

One question regarding your paper business. So you mentioned you're very satisfied with pulp. Paper has some problems. Perhaps, can you give us some information how big is your order and sales volume currently in the paper area? And what do you expect -- when will you be able to fix these problems in the paper area and what margin might be possible then in, let's say, 2 to 3 years?

We expect that in 2 to 3 years, it will be on par with the other business areas, and we are talking about roughly EUR 200 million.

Okay. Thank you very much. If there are no further question, we are perfectly on time. And then I would like to switch to Humbert giving us his views on Pulp & Paper Service. Just give me a minute to share the presentation. Humbert, go ahead.

Good morning or good afternoon, wherever you are, from my side. Humbert Köfler, I would like to give you an update and an outlook on the Pulp & Paper Service business, where they have stated that Pulp & Paper reached [indiscernible] Capital, Service, EUR 3 billion, we have achieved in spite of the COVID-19 pandemic. Ongoing goal is to extend M&A activities in the paper service market, where we see the biggest growth potential from our perspective because it is the lowest share we have compared to the pulp area. And we have the goal to maintain -- we had the goal to maintain high profitability in the future. We have reached the highest profitability ever in service with a strict cost out, cost control including turnaround of low-performing business, which was in the paper service area. And we also have closed several workshops, especially in the mature markets like in Canada, Delta, U.S., Kelso and also smaller shops in Spain, in France and so on. Here, the overview of our service capabilities, starting from the new mill. It starts, of course, with standard. We have spare parts, fabrics and rolls, basically our Xerium acquisitions and in many cases, we also start with the mill-wide maintenance from pulp and mill. After some years of operation, we're moving into rebuild retrofits of field service, inspection performance studies, shutdown and start-up services on a regular basis. And if you look at the whole life cycle of pulp and paper mill, which basically is in the, depending on the countries, between 30 and 50 years, you have after maybe 70 and 80 years starting the first upgrades, modernizations of mills, expansion of mills where we are fully present with our technologies. And lately, what we have introduced in the market of synergy services, basically where we are bundling performance services from various product groups to a tailor-made solution for our customers, including all diagnostic automation and digital solutions. Okay. We have a global expertise with our center of competencies, and we have good presence around the globe. Here, you see an overview where we have locations, service and [indiscernible] in the pulp and paper service area. We are quite even and or fully distributed around the globe. If you look at EMEA, we have around 30% of our global order intake in service and around 45% of the employees also because most of our center of competencies from historic regions are located. In Europe, most adjustments we have done were in the European workshops and areas. North America, around 30% of the order intake, 25% of the employees. Latin America, 16% of order intake, 20% of the employees. This is also due to the fact that most of our pulp mill maintenance business, which is quite labor intensive, is located there. We have over 1,000 people basically in pulp mill maintenance contracts in Latin America. APAC, 17% of order intake with only 10% of the employees. However, we are going to make a shift, strengthening the local for local. Also with latest investments, we are basically finishing or started like expansion, nearly doubling of the manufacturing capacity in the fabrics area in China, plus the establishment of the new rolls shop in southern part of China, which is the largest papermaking area in the world. So there is a shift towards that goal to be even local for local all over the world. If you look at the market development in the service area, I mean, we had a reduction in 2020 and [ definitely ] bounced back this year. Overall, the long-term global pulp and paper production growth is expected to be around 2%. We have seen details from Joachim before. We have the goal and still have the goal to grow 2 to 3x faster than the market, and here we are talking organically. If you look at the historical growth from 2014 onwards, including acquisitions, we had a compound annual growth rate of 12.9%, of course also due to large acquisitions like Xerium, smaller ones like paper machine. And if you look at the pure organic growth since 2014, the compounded growth rate was 4.4%, which is above the market -- the other market players in that field. So the strategic focus, how we want to achieve this growth is basically all 4 pillars, which are people, which is market, market coverage, which is innovative products and efficient operations. We start with people. Of course, safety first is important because that's a big requirement of our customers, especially in the northern hemisphere. And as an ongoing effort is to strengthen the culture of customer centricity of all our employees, expanding local presence and competencies. And we have -- and are going to put our key account management system, which is already existed since many years together with our cooperation project with capital on a new level. We are and will continue to constantly improve the skills and the know-how of our experts with continuous training, also with succession planning in time. We also basically are hit like everybody else in the industry with aging experts workforce. And basically, we are bringing new talents on board. And we want to get, especially we have seen how important it was in the pandemic, where basically we could not send experts to start-ups, to field service activities that we can support with all the digital means. We [indiscernible] from experts without going directly to mills. So we want to basically have all our employees fit for digitalization. And there are some training programs like a training and [indiscernible] on a global basis. If you look at the market, we are still improving our footprint, especially in emerging markets, Asia Pacific, Latin America. We continue to establish additional local service centers to improve customer support, especially in emerging economies. We improving our service center in Indonesia. On the other hand, we have reduced our footprint in the mature markets where we had 2 big presence in order to keep our standard control. You have seen in the presentation of Joachim, there's quite a difference in the growth rates depending on the various grades. So tissue, certain packaging grades have overproportional growth rates over the pulp market, whereas graphical paper, printing and writing, especially newsprint, have a negative trend. We are trying to focus and -- on this so-called growing pulp and paper grades, like tissue, pulp packaging grades and other industrial applications, which have improved growth. I think it's a standard thing like focus on new digitalization tools to improve the efficiency, especially with remote support of customers worked quite well. We have started up and did field service without sending anybody to the mill, basically directly instructing from kind of local remote location, the customer, giving him instructions and so on. And we are developing and basically are in the execution of strategic investment projects to support the growth. Here, we are talking local for local. So we have currently, by the end of the year, we will start up expansion of our PMC plant in China. We are starting to be competitive, And we have started to build a new roll plant in China South. Basically, one of our areas where we didn't have enough presence. Basically here, we can now attack also the biggest paper market in the world, China South. And if we look, not only means that we have take away business from our competitors, but basically announced investments in China South is around 10 million new paper capacity, and we will be well prepared right in time to basically be present there to offer our services. And as stated before, the biggest growth area is the pulp and paper -- the paper, the service market, and we are constantly looking to identifying the target to get a stronger position that they have. Products, I mean, it's very much a standard. There, we work in development. We're concentrating, of course, on developing product and service portfolio to offer added value solutions to customers for all delivery types. We have a very big focus on innovation, research and development in order to be able to differentiate from our competitors. And all our, basically, focus is on improving customer performance, having a very low payback for our customers. Basically, everything should be below our yield by savings in operating costs for the customers, whether it's energy, steam consumption, chemical consumption or the like. We also, basically on the mega trend of green products, also recycling. On one hand, recycling of our waste we have in our manufacturing plants. If we look, for example, of the fabrics business, a certain portion is basically waste. We have started to recycle that and basically put it back into operation and not having it as waste. And we are also working in the area that we can basically [indiscernible] back use paper machine closings and also recycle it and have a second use. We are doing that, for example, in the area of refiner plates. We have agreements with customers. We picked up our used refiner plates, put it back in our foundry and reuse the material without, here, we have reached levels of more than 2/3 of using recycled metals. Digitalization, remote service and a very big focus is, and if you want to grow well above the market, we have to focus on enlarging our product portfolio on a competitor installed base, and we want to continue this strength. Operations, I think this is really a big business. We want to be the #1 in efficiency in the market. We have done enough, but we are continuing to expand manufacturing capacities. I've told you about China South, about the China fabrics plant and emerging economies to be more local for local. And we are continuing or planning to continue to expand the engineering and manufacturing to the so-called best cost countries in order to improve our profitability and also day-to-day business, continued review of our cost structures and implementing sustainable measures to secure profitability and competitors. Okay? Here is just kind of a teaser. Two examples of typical new developments. First one, basically, on one hand, it's improving the customer operations by reducing steam consumptions, increasing yields, reduce heat waste by new gas handling and secondary heat-recovery system installed in the reference within Austria. But the interesting thing is that it's installed on a vertical digester and ANDRITZ doesn't have and never had vertical digesters as a technology. And so that's not a big growing market because basically the world has moved to continuous digesters, but there is a similar -- a lot of installed base from the past of vertical digesters. So it's on one hand, basically improving customer performance and attacking our competitors, and it's a very good example to [indiscernible] for the customers, which is rolled out globally. The next one is an example of digital product development. I mean it's an example of a reference mill in Russia, is the largest Russian papermaking group with several mills. They are focusing on a common digital strategy for all the operations. Target is -- of the project to profit maximization and covering all the processes of the complete mill. And we have been chosen to part of their journey. It's a project which will be finished in the next 3, 3.5 years. We have been chosen as their supplier for the digital twin for all the process control, besides that we have installed and are installing advanced process controls, which basically transfer the results and control the process of the mill. And we also have signed agreements for long-term service agreement with our OPP technology. Their goal is to be the most modern, most autonomous digital mill in the world, and we're happy to go this path, and it started quite well. We have made a proof-of-concept in the existing mill. And by end of the next year, we will have installed and newly started up. Okay. Summarizing the road map for '22 to '24. Target is to reach a business sustainable over EUR 1.5 billion organically in the aftermarket. As stated already, we see good growth potential in the paper service market with M&As. Goal is to maintain high profitability in the future. As outlined before, with measures we are taking, we are confirming that we want to grow 2 to 3x faster than the market is growing, by closing white spots in market coverage, improve market penetration in emerging markets and further grow on competitor's equipment. And one of the measures is to expand the rolls and shoe press belt business with a new manufacturing facility in China South. Okay. That was it. Thank you, and I'm open for questions.

Okay. Many thanks. [Operator Instructions] We have Andreas Willi. Go ahead.

A question on what you just said on growing on competitor machines. How do you do that effectively in terms of having an advantage over the person that had the installed base? Is that profitable to basically go after other people's installed base? And what's the differentiating argument you're making to your customers for that?

I mean we are not going on a simple replacement. Basically, a copy of competitor parts and so on. So in most cases, we are using our technology to improve performance like this example. So we are not -- it's basically adding new features to the competitor installed base. And this gives us the ability to be a differentiator because customers, of course, tend to business with the original OEM. But here we are in a complete new game, and we have been very successful in the past by upgrading, taking new technically developed -- ex developed over the years in the market and bring it to, not only our installed base, which is the same as our old installed base, bringing old installed base also with new features, but we do this also with [indiscernible].

If I may add to something. You may remember in previous presentations, we used the engineered wear parts. So we are not selling copies of spare parts for competitors' equipment, 0. What we are selling is engineered wear parts that have a very important role, defining the quality of the end product of our customers, et cetera. And there, we consider ourselves, and we are a technology leader. So we are selling the best refiner plates in the world regardless whether it's an [indiscernible] refiner or a raw mat or an X or Y refiner. And these businesses have been developed over the last 15, 20 years probably gradually. And because of that, we are a leading technology provider for certain wear parts, whether that's the refiner plates or steam baskets, [indiscernible] coating, whatever. And because of that, there is no question that they are profitable and definitely a cornerstone of our overall pulp and paper profitability, is this EUR 1.5 billion roughly of our service and aftermarket business.

Does it answer your question, Andreas?

Yes, it's very clear.

Okay. Thank you. Then we will move to Sven. Sven, go ahead.

Yes. Question is on the Latin America sales share that you've mentioned in the mid-teens. I would have expected that maybe to be a bit higher than that given the dominance of LatAm pulp production and the pulp line. So do you see that share going strategically much higher in the next few years? Or do you have just simply too much local competition there? Is that an area of potential M&A?

Thanks for a very good question. But basically, we see the biggest growth year-on-year is in Latin America. But you should not forget that the biggest installed base worldwide is still in the U.S. and Europe, but the share is strongly expanding. And we should also not forget that a lot of Latin American installed base is very young. So you really start to increase your business once the mills are to 10 years old because then you start to rebuild them, upgrade them, expand them which is a large portion. But Latin America is the biggest growth in the last years, and it will further grow. If you look at the installed base that are coming on stream, we have talking of [indiscernible], have been talking UPM [indiscernible] and others. So this will add in the next years. Partly, we are already in these maintenance agreements we are doing from the day 1. And then after warranty period, it starts with wear and spare parts and mills services. And this is also partly compensating the shrinking installed base, especially in North America, but also in Europe, the mills are closed down. There's a shift of pulp production, for example, into Latin America. And there is a shift of paper production, partly where in Europe and North America, the graphic papers were very strong into the strongly growing Asia paper market. And we are basically -- we are there. We are expanding there. We're investing there, And the other [indiscernible], we have to reduce a little bit our footprint, of course, in the shrinking mature markets.

Next question comes from Richard Schramm, HSBC. Go ahead, Richard.

Yes. So I'm curious to come back to this market share gains you target, I mean, growing 3 -- 2 to 3x faster than the market sounds pretty ambitious in this market. And I cannot imagine that you competitors sit there and just watch you doing that, but we'll strike back. So while you are upgrading competitor machines, are your competitors doing the same as ANDRITZ machines, for example? So what is, at the end of the day, your net gain here? And what is really the advantage besides these additional features you mentioned you offer to your customer? Is it then at the end of the day, a clear cost reduction you can maybe guarantee and you have to share with the customer in some aspects here? What is the incentives that customers reach to you instead of staying with the original OEM and the service activities there?

Thank you. I mean for sure, it's an ambitious store. But on the other end, we have demonstrated in the past and have shown that we have been growing above 2%, the market growth, which is I said also in the past, around 2% or slightly below, which is 4.4% organically. As Dr. Leitner mentioned, we are very strong in this engineered wear parts, spare parts offering performance improvement for our customers. We have gained in many areas absolute market leadership which, of course, is collected that we gain market shares from our competitors. We take business away. On the other hand, basically, what we see also is that certain local players, we are taking them out of the market, which are basically public and private by expanding our footprint in these local regions, and we have an advantage. And if we couldn't have an advantage, there's no reason to be a business against pure local copycats with improving performance. So basically, we are not really concerned that this is not achievable target with the growth. But you're right, it -- we have to offer and we have not our strategy because this would be controversial to our goal to increase and keep the profitability. We are not going to sell over the price. We are going to sell over performance [indiscernible] customers by also guaranteeing a certain performance.

Maybe also an additional comment from my side. I mean you may think of our one single big competitor in pulp. But in many cases, we are doing refurbishments for equipment, of which the original, the OEM is no longer run. Think of [indiscernible], think of many other companies that have gone out of business, number one. Number two, in many of these cases, this big single competitor in pulp is not our main competitor in these wear parts. This big single competitor account is not our main competitor in the spare parts.There are specialists -- there are various companies that are providing these products. So this is part, let's say, win and lose loose at the same time, fight against one company. It is a huge market. It's a -- it's also, to put it, being outsourced or in-source [indiscernible] companies that are running these equipment. And clearly, we want to be cautious. We do not want to grow at the [ expense ] of price. And I can guarantee you what is a guarantee for that as you will never ever agree to the [ logistics ] of what compromising on the price. It is really relevant. And obviously, it is [indiscernible] going to the [indiscernible] so we need to be realistic on the growth rate. But again, as somebody said, we have around 4%, 5%. I think in the other years, we're going to [ change ] constantly. And so why should it not be possible to continue having this basket of opportunities.

And you should not forget that in certain cases, our biggest competitor is the customer, and we're talking about in-sourcing and outsourcing. On the maintenance side, we are taking away business from our customers and that they are shifting the maintenance to us. And here, we have to be competitive on performance, on increased availability, basically also basing on kind of bonuses for increased production, et cetera.

We still have one question left from Daniel Lion from Erste Bank.

I would like to focus a little bit on the overall profitability for the segment. Everything you've told us so far now reflecting on additional costs in the capital business that you had from COVID and partially maybe also related to logistics. We have still the lag in paper business, which you aim to increase in profitability towards the other parts of the businesses in this segment. And then you have actually your growth targets and expansion in the services area where we are still actually -- in the second quarter, we were at 46% of services share at an EBITA margin of 11%. And now you have an overall margin target for the segment of 10% to 11%, which seems somehow really conservative when all these improvements are going to become reality in the coming, let's say, partially in next quarters, partially the coming 2 to 3 years. Am I overseeing something? Or does this really seem rather conservative?

I think you are right, it is conservative.

So what would be a more realistic or -- range going forward?

It's -- the realistic range is 10% to 11%. But you are right, it's conservative.

Okay. Thank you. Then we will move on with Metals Processing, and we would like to ask Joachim again to start with this presentation. Joachim, please go ahead.

Okay. So if you control it, I'm going to share.

[indiscernible], please.

Okay? Can...

You have to share.

[ I'll start with this ].

All right. It's was in the center of your screen. Just try again.

So can you see?

Yes, perfect.

Okay.

Now it's okay. It's all right.

Okay. Is my camera on?

Yes.

Okay. So good morning, once again. On the Metals Processing side, just a reality check on the past, what has been promised in the 2019. I think on the advanced high strength steel galvanizing lines, market leadership definitely achieved. Aluminum, the market was really down. So we have no real track record there and tailored weld [ plains ], I think we have a clear market leadership there. Aerospace industry, I think you're all aware that this market segment was pretty much hit by COVID and no real investments took place there. We were able to realize synergies with Schuler. We had joint projects and orders, especially for railway wheels, that's in the forging area. We combined the furnace competence from hundreds of melts and Schuler's forging for the [ railways ]. That's excellent business. Reducing cost overruns [indiscernible] proven way. We have positive EBITA since '19, and we are constantly improving. Can it be faster? Yes. That's -- we will come to the outlook later. Push the share of service, I would say, we are on the right way. But in 2020, we definitely had the COVID impact, but we are recovering this year quickly. The long-term target is confirmed and unfortunately, what I think achieved is maybe this was overlooked mistake. So I would say this is rather work in progress and achieved. Okay. Also in the Metals area. We can and we do provide good solutions for the mega trends in decarbonization, circular economy and digitalization. And I would emphasize a bit on that. If we look to decarbonization, then we have the main driver for the steel industry or let's say, for the automotive industry is still the rate reduction, and I will give you some hints to understand how we are contributing to that. And this might look a bit complicated for you, but if you see the tensile strength and the elongation, this is the engineering words you use when you work with steel. You can translate the tensile strength to age of the car, and you can convert the elongation to safety of the passenger. Both are main drivers to reduce the weight. It's still the most easy and most efficient way to reduce the fuel consumption of cars and not putting a danger to the passenger is the second line. So you want to be in this area, you want to be on the upper right-hand side. And you could see that with the development that was made with 2 of our main customers, voestalpine and ArcelorMittal. We could produce the second generation and third generation, high-strength steel that then move after the hot stamping and quenching process really moved up in this chart from the, let's say, middle left side to the upper-right side, and that is a huge development. And the basis of that is the furnace that we have delivered to these 2 companies. And all these deals that are delivered to the automotive industry are coming basically from these installations that we have made. The difficult part is that this galvanized steel is very highly appreciated by the customers since Porsche introduced galvanized cars in 1975, it became kind of a standard. And if you want to alter the material properties through this hot stamping, you need to be aware that the zinc coating of this galvanized steel, that the zinc is melting already at 900 degrees. So you need to prepare that steel that you can do with hot stamping and quenching process without elevating the temperature too high, and that's basically the key element in this area. It's to make sure that you have the right heating curve, but even more important is the right cooling strategy. And you can see on the downside picture, that if you don't apply the right cooling strategy, the material is still okay, but the -- but you cannot process the sheet anymore because it's wrinkled. So that's basically where the work is around. And the equipment that we supplied here is this continuous galvanizing line for the third-generation advanced high strength steel. It's a huge furnace or basically, it's a treatment device because it has a very flexible heating and cooling curves for each individual equipment which is then further on processed to the steel properties the customer needs. These deals are then transformed what we call laser tailor-welded blanks. And that is the largest and the fastest-growing area in the automotive industry. And you see here, this is an example for the market in North America, the NAFTA market, that the cold stamped is increasing, but the hot-stamped tailor blanks are even increasing more because the targets of the car manufacturers in reducing CO2 require lighter and lighter steel. So you can see what you -- when you see in a car that this is basically joined together out of very and many different parts, which each of that are basically tailor-made to the function. And you can see that for the latest developments, these branded products from [ Voith ] and ArcelorMittal, which I mentioned to you, are key elements in these in these cars. And we definitely have developed a strong market position there. Here is an interesting area where how integration of process steps and parts have been made available by availability of this new high-strength material that you can easily understand that production costs go down when you move to this one-piece solution, but also greenhouse gas emission goes substantially down. And here is this interesting chart. And you'll see that you have a material saving of 4.3 kilogram per vehicle, which is 20%, which means that 20% less steel needs to be produced and processed in the steel factory. And that definitely and significantly reduces the greenhouse gas emissions of the steel manufacturer by delivering the same product to the end customer. Then the second important is the weight reduction in the vehicle, which is 10%. But this 10% is available for the entire lifetime of the vehicle because it will -- it reduces the weight. So with this development of these high-strength steel and the technology of this tailor-welded blanks, it is definitely a key driver for bringing down the net weight of the cars. And it will maintain and it will remain the main driver in the future because the requirements -- new requirements coming from the electric vehicles, completely new parts with new requirements on weight and on stability will arise. If we look on the solutions for this tailor-welded blank applications, we have a company [indiscernible], which is market leader for these tailor-welded blanks and the [ Zolas ] and the [indiscernible] are these other -- the main products in that arena. And you can see how many parts of a car are already produced there. We have a market share well above 50%, and we believe it is increasing. Another area where our technology is perfectly suited for the next challenges in the automotive industry is concerned, e-mobility. On the left-hand side, you see the core loss of electrical water as a function of the thickness of this electrical steel that is in this motor. And you can see that the core loss is significantly dropping if we reduce the thickness of that material. The processing of this -- of these same materials out of electrical steel is a huge challenge because electrical steel has an extremely high silicon content. And if you have high silicon content, then the material gets extremely brittle. So at the moment, the lowest thickness that can really be produced trouble-fee is between 0.25 and 0.3 and technology needs to be developed to push it down to 0.2 and 0.1 millimeters, and requests from electrical car manufacturers are already on the table. You can see on the right-hand side that with the newly and the proprietary S6-high rolling mill from Andritz is highly suited for this application because it is between the conventional 6-high that our competitors can offer and the 20-high, which is a very expensive method to produce -- to roll the steel. So we believe that for the high demand of silicon steel, which will come if the electrical vehicles will develop as wished by our society, this will be a good business opportunity for Andritz. You can see a cross-section of this 6-high, which works with very small working rolls, supported side rolls by the special arrangements. But this is all put in one quickly exchangeable cassette. And so we can run the same rolling mill in a 4-high mode and in a 6-high mode which is -- which gives it a high flexibility and an ideal working horse for our customers. So this is -- works extremely well for high-strength steel and advanced high-strength steel, but also for these silicon steels. In circular economy. We have developed for the stainless steel pickling process, we have already developed CircleToZero application where we regenerate the acid waste into regenerated acid, which then is fed into the pickling line that is done in the PYROMARS plant, and then we recycle the rinse water in the ZEMAP plant into clean water. So basically, we have a closed circle operation already here. Unfortunately, unlike -- and I remember the question from the Pulp & Paper side. There is no byproduct. Unfortunately, this is cost, especially on this water recycling. So this is only viable when environmental restrictions are high. But we have already 2 of these plants in operation in the Republic of China. It's a small island and very highly populated, but we believe that environmental requirements will increase in other areas, and we have a good product there. On the digitalization. We have deployed our Metris platform also to a huge extent in increasing asset value with condition monitoring, risk-based maintenance. Product quality is a key driver for the automation in the steel industry, especially for the intelligent CGL with the high value of the material coming out, especially the advanced furnace control with a forward looking to control the process parameters, we have already more than 40 references in the middle area. Improving production performance is basically part of the manufacturing execution system, and we are tying in into the overall system of the customers usually. And then we have developed a tool search to track emissions, utilities, energy consumptions in an easy way that the customer -- that our customers easily get the data available. What the emissions are for the time being on spot, but also accumulated over time. So summarizing it, the road map for the next years. We need to finish and will finish the turnaround and would like to grow on a healthy profit level. So the revenue, we aim to run it towards EUR 700 million, with an EBITA more than 6%. Big share of reaching that rest on the Service business, which we'd like to increase beyond 35%. We definitely need to strengthen the project management capabilities, and we have frequent know-how and best practice exchanges with Pulp & Paper divisions. We need to leverage our strong position in niche markets into regional expansion. This went pretty well for the last couple of years into the U.S. Now we have other targets ahead of us. We are in the process of developing solutions for the steel industry's hydrogen journey, and we would like to increase the share of green products above 30%. And I think that is on a good track to do that. That's about it.

Thank you very much, Joachim. We open up the Q&A session, just raise your virtual hand if there are any question from the auditorium. No questions received. And I think we will move on with Metal Forming and [ Domenico Iacovelli ] [indiscernible] ...

Yes. Let me jump in. First of all, congratulations to the Bachelor of Science degree you have earned by following Joachim's presentation. Secondly, I think you have noticed that Joachim will miss responsibility for this better processing part. I need to move over to [ Metal ] [ screen ]. But I think he really hands over a very well-positioned division, and he gave you a lot of evidence for that. I mean in short, I'm really convinced there would not be a modern lightweight car in the world without that -- for which not certain parts have been produced on Andritz equipment. And I think that is a very, very good position, and a very positive aspect of that is that this position is completely dependent which engine drives the car. Whether it's a [ ICE ] or whether it's [indiscernible] car, all the parts you have seen in Joachim's presentation, they are the same. And therefore, this is definitely not old industry or not dying industry or not -- I don't know what. It is clearly an [ exciting ] industry where Andritz has played a very important role in developing all these applications for this advanced high-strength steel going into delivery banks, going into pressing very complicated parts. And I think Domenico will take up on that also to a certain extent.

Okay. Thanks. We have received a question from [ Simon ] again.

Just a quick one. On Servicing, is that a higher-margin business? Could it be above the 6% to 7% that you're targeting for the whole business?

Which one?

The servicing. Services?

No, the Service is definitely above the 6% and the capital is struggling to reach the 6%.

Then we have [ HSBC ] and Richard again.

Yes. I would be interested in the cost for these developments you have outlined, which is a lot of work to do, quite obviously. And the size of sales you have it to leverage on is not really big, I would say. We know that this decarbonization of the whole steel industry is obviously getting a lot of subsidies from the states also. Are you able to participate in this development? And do you get also here some subsidies which make it easier for you to drive forward R&D in this area?

We don't get subsidies. Sometimes our customers do. I would say, the majority of the decarbonization journey of the steel industry is happening upstream in the iron and steelmaking, where we are not present. We do offer, through our [indiscernible] control division, we do offer, of course, evolution control systems. We are in CO2 separation, we are in -- but the market did not really take off yet, but it might. So there are options. But I would say, we are not a strong player there. We are strong player downstream. And -- but there, we have, I would say, even though the volume is small, we have the good positions in the niches, which also allows us to earn the money needed for that development because everybody needs to take -- can only put in the money from these markets. So I would not see that we have -- that we are in that by that size in that area.

Okay. Thanks very much. We are perfectly on time. And then I would like to ask Domenico Iacovelli to go ahead with his presentation. Domenico?

Perfect.

You have to unmute. [indiscernible]. I think he froze. So [indiscernible]. Can you hear us, Domenico?

Yes, sure. One sec.

Perfect.

[Indiscernible] the presentation.

While Domenico is [ preparing ] maybe I can add that this [indiscernible] company really, when it was acquired by bandwidth, it was managed by Domenico and he played an important role to develop the business of this [ tech ] company. So he certainly will also be a good [ partner ] in the future when he takes our responsibility for Metals processing.

So now the benchmark is high. A good day from my end as well. I will share the presentation. It's just a couple of seconds. So thank you very much for the [ introduction ]. Of course, from my future colleagues. I mean we are faced by a transformation in the automotive business towards the electrification. Further, there is a trend in less cars in the future as well which not means there's no growth, so that's why already effect in 2019 at the last Capital Day I was present, I announced really big changes in our organization. But let's go through the presentation. Let's hope it works. Perfect. A short overview of [indiscernible]. One second, please. Always -- everything doesn't work.

We can see your presentation.

That's the wrong one.

Oh the wrong one?

But the intro was the right one, at least.

I can also try to share to you, if it's easier.

No. [indiscernible].

I can upload it and you tell me when to change the slides. That will be more easy.

Can you see it now?

Yes.

Good. Okay I will make sure we are in time [indiscernible] to about Schuler, it has been founded 1839 in Göppingen in Germany. We are still sitting and at [indiscernible] here in Göppingen. Our products, I mean it's clear, we are the biggest press manufacturer worldwide. We believe in full automation for these lines as well as the software solutions. We have even a [ wide ] group, not to say sale like we had 2 years ago, but quite a significant one. We have a wide process know-how. And of course, we deliver all the services related to the net performing industry. As mentioned already, I do believe it's...

Sir, there is a strong background noise in your -- coming from you, which makes it difficult to follow you.

I have no noise here.

Okay. Okay.

Okay. Sorry for that. I hope you can still understand me. So I think Schuler is definitively the lead on -- in the business and will provide first-rate technology. And we are definitively the innovator in the industry in terms of machine solutions as well as for the digital transformation for customers. Our worldwide site of the top leading car manufacturers, we have even now start-up car manufacturers, their suppliers. We are [ enforcing ] household appliance, electronic industries and so on. And as mentioned by Joachim, even in the train industry, which is quite interesting business for us, we well positioned. We are everywhere on the world. I don't want to go on each slide. I think what I would like to highlight are the yellow signs you see, especially Brazil, of course, Europe, in Germany, in China, where we have productions and service in the future, we have in product homes -- we have product homes, very important work for us because we are going to deliver out of the region for the region, but not only by manufacturing, but by developing the product. This is part of our [ load to follow ] strategy. We are quite successful developing products for China, out of China, which are really only for the Chinese market. So we are more and more getting away from the centralized development out of Germany, which is why I would like to show this slide. Let's move ahead to technologies and products to shortly -- I mean, it's clear. We are press manufacturer. Aside from presses, we are delivering all the automations on -- we are going from outstanding presses, which are needed for the application presented by our team tailor laser-welded blanks, hot stamping. These are all stamped, then later on in the hot stamping presses with small [ simple ] presses up to big transfer presses. As in here, we are talking about the range of, I don't know, 160 tons up to 35,000 tons presses. All these small brands you see like PCH flex or efficient [indiscernible] forming. These are all technologies developed by Schuler [indiscernible]. So that's why I do really believe that we are the innovation leader besides the biggest press manufacturer in the world. I just would like to show you a very nice plan with this smart press shop in Halle, where we were able to bring in all our capabilities beside of the press line. You see on the left-hand side, which is a new developed [ 20 ] press line. We have given our tryout press in there and our cutting-edge laser blanking technology. Why this is special in this case because it is the first plant having only Schuler equipment, and everything is connected to each other with all our digital solutions. For us, digitalization is one of the keys. I'm happy to say that we are wide. So digitalization is not only anymore a buzz word, it is reality. We included here all our digital solutions. So you will see on the next page, we put together all our know-how in digitalization in this one Digital Suite, and this pressure you find the visual die protection, track and trace, monitoring solution, quality solution, DigiSim, Schuler Connect. And what is great, we have full access to these plants. We can learn. It's the first time we get the data out of the producing plant customers, they like to keep their information by themselves. And for us, it is enormous very important that we get the information out of the production in order to develop the closed loop. What means close loop? It means that out of the data, we are going to reap the learning. And we bring automatically back to production lines, so that the machine adopt themselves to the environment whether it is material, whether it is temporary, what else, different products and so on. I would like -- three of these digital tools, which we combined or consolidated to now Digital Suite because we really believe that digitalization on one hand, it's clear, it's part of the equipment -- or capital equipment you're going to sell. In the other hand, we are convinced, and we got the proof of the case that we can make money out of it, okay, especially brownfield. One of them is track and trace. With track and trace, we can really read the incoming material. What kind of steel do we have, when it has been produced. You can load it into machine and we can track and we see production step and connect all the datas directly to pulp [ ideas ]. So even in 20 years, we have a crashing car, the OEM can figure out where it has been produced, which car maker had been used, which material has been used. And with that, we can really be able to check, an investigation why maybe a part cracked which shouldn't crack. I mean the second one is visual die protection. Here, we already achieved a lot. And here, you see 17 systems sold. It looks like it's not that large, but with this visual die protection, we are using visual detection technology to figure out whether there are mistakes in the die room. So maybe a maintenance guy is losing his hammer or a screw is breaking up before the press is closes and damages the whole die, we recognize this and stop the machine. And I do believe that by the end of the year, we will definitely have more than 30 systems running and quite great business. This is purely brownfield business. So we are selling these to existing customer, so far only in Germany, by the end of the year, we are going to rolling out all over the world. And what is good, beside of selling these systems, we even can animate the customer to upgrade this system. I mean to have the system running with a certain level of control system. So maybe you have old an machine of [ 5 ] years, you have an old system and you have to update this control businesses. With that, we really do believe and we already see in our numbers that you can generate more brownfield business in this services business. We already sold 45 cloud solutions systems with edges on the machines. Of course, some of the new machines, we're selling with these edge devices, but we are selling it in brownfield existing productions. And this is, again, as already mentioned before, a big achievement, and I open up for customer, because even we get new machines with this technology, one of this OE tracking [ preventive ] maintenance or assess unit or whatever you can have, he will -- he likes to have it taken in, in his existing equipment. And with that, you generally even Service business. Hopefully, you then you find everything on our Digital Suite. You can check it out even on the home page, it's tested, again, as it's clear digitalization revenue will not perform nor generate additional money. Of course, we are talking about the billions we are doing maybe with capital business, but it is a different model by creating [ involvements ], which have been paid licenses. And it is slowly but very strongly growing market. Good. The market in [ oil ] [indiscernible] you might imagine it is difficult. I mean even 2021 at a prepricing level will be not reached in 2021. COVID made just, let's say, speeded up the whole situation. In my eyes, our problem was not COVID, even though [indiscernible] is [ product ] like everybody else, by sending engineers over the world by executing our projects. But we were already in a transformation mode before COVID. And maybe this was exactly our lucky situation in the [indiscernible] because many of the measures, we already initiated back in '18, especially '19 helped us to get to 2020 and even 2021. The fact is, car sales fell by 50% to EUR 75 million in 2020. So EUR 90 million to EUR 75 million has an impact. There will be an upturn in 2021, up again to [ 2016 ] but this is mainly driven by China and of course, the chip shortage as well as the raw material shortage which not having to recover fast. So I do not expect that we will have a precrisis level before to 2022 or 2023. What is good? We positioned ourselves quite well in the market when the overall press market declined by 20% I think from EUR 7.6 billion, down to EUR 6.1 billion. If you take the 10 top companies dominating the global market in prices, they are covering EUR 3.3 billion, which is more or less 55%. You see it on the right side. And what is really very positive is we were able to increase our market share to 10.4%, 11.6%, which is a nice achievement, but we see that even other big ones were able to increase their market share. Not as significantly like really, especially due to the electrical car manufacturers, which really helped us through this difficult year, but it means that there's more test manufactures that really have -- 3 top ones in the [indiscernible] but growing by 2% market shares, which shows that somebody else is losing a lot. So our market shares are still high. I do expect that even for 2021, we will have a similar picture. Going back to the global demand for the light vehicles. The recovery is there, starting from North America. You see in 2021, we will [ be far not ] achieve the numbers we had in 2019, but we will be back on the same level in 2022. Europe is down even in 2021. Here, I do not even expect precrisis level in 2022. China went fast than we all expected. I mean they are already in 2021, there will be above precrisis levels to above 2019, and they look quite confident for 2022. I will skip now South America and Asia Pacific because it's [ not impacted ]. So if we look at the world, we will be more or less above the precrisis level in 2022, even very substantively. And COVID, honestly, it's -- it will not have the direct impact we had last year. I do not expect that there will be a gain shutdowns due to COVID. We faced some of the shutdowns this year in Europe as well as in the U.S., but not because of COVID because of the chip shortage. But I think we are all in the industry, we are out to deal with COVID, configurating our costs online. We are also happy that we have the control of the door. But is much more important for us and this is a very positive sign development of the battery electrical vehicles. I'm talking about battery electric vehicles. We're talking about plug-ins. So everything in the past, not only a battery, so not only hybrids and talking about targets as well as full battery electric vehicles. And here, we have quite a [indiscernible] operation. And I think this is our biggest opportunity. We have an extreme growth as we had a CAGR up to 18% in the U.S. by 2030. In absolute figures from today, 0.5 is a very homeopathic number up to 4.1 million cars a year in Europe from. This year, 2 million, up to 9.4 million in 2030. China, up to 10.6 million. In Asia Pacific, from 0.3 million this year, up 1.5 million in 2030 as well as -- which means the world will go from 5.8 million up to 26.9 million battery electrical vehicles in 2030. What is very impressive and we'll see later looking at the battery production. Europe is extremely strong, driven by Germany. You see that in 2030 in absolute figures, Europe is close to China. But China is producing different size or volume of cars. And in Europe, we nearly have half of the cars electrified in 2030. I can tell you, if I look only at the Germany, I do expect that in 2025, 50% of the cars will be electrical vehicles, and this is a very strong driver. In my eyes, this will be supported even in the future. I mean there is a worldwide demand as shown before by 50% until 2030. The strong regulations worldwide to achieve the CO2 targets will drive this one. You see the elections worldwide. They are all based on sustainabilities here [indiscernible] even in Germany, which is a pulp market for us. This is a key. And you see all common practice are not only [indiscernible] but electromobility, autonomous driving and software. So I already mentioned before, Europe and China will be the 2 most important market, having a share of 20 million cars together per year. I'd like to remember, this will be by 2030, depending on the overall growth, 20% of the worldwide car sales, which is an unbelievable number. So how we are going to achieve this? I told you at the beginning, we are coming from a different situation. Downturn of the volume, transformation into the electrification of the cars and so on. On that we place the core strategy. And I'm really happy that we see that we are in [indiscernible] this one. And we still focus on our core business, which is presses. We have to build up quality presses, that's what the customer is expecting from us. We still drive innovation and technology. And -- but we are even more aligned with our customers and the market because we are now not anymore only a German company. We are really a global company, and we see it later on in the headcount. We have different needs. The Chinese might have different quality needs and performance and requirements in the European. And we have to really consider this. We have to deliver always the best solution for this customer. What we believe we want to deliver business, the huge culture change, we went through. I mean it's clear, it's an ongoing topic. But we are in the right direction and the solution in the market is giving us, right? We have to avoid over engineering, excellent product management. I think we heard it a lot today, and we have to costs overall. And If you see on the right side, you see a new model, which is called e-core. This is not only e-mobility. This is everything that has to do with renewable energy to take the opportunities out. So what we have achieved out of this core strategy already -- I mean we developed after these [ product portfolios ] even with [indiscernible] strategy all around the world. And take the demand for this strong line -- I don't want to explain it in detail. It's a hot stamping line dedicated for the Chinese market, developed out of China, sold out of China. We already sold it in the 2-digit level in the moment, and this is deeply right path to go. We took out some products which were not profitable. It's cleaning up. We still own [indiscernible] in restructuring as well. We reduced project deviation and so on. Digitalization, I will not explain too much on this one because I already did. But we will accelerate our innovation rate, and we're extremely happy about this. The increased output of [indiscernible] in existing facilities, especially benefiting from the local-for-local approach to product homes, and we don't have even albeit Germany we developing in somebody else is producing it. And of course, we are taking this e-mobility sector. I mean we sold several battery lines last year's in press lines as well as [indiscernible] lines to new at least e-car producers, which are really growing in a tremendous way. Just to give you an overview about our opportunities, I told you about the battery electrical vehicles. If you look at the battery production in gigawatt hours, what does it means, right? And if we start from 2020, we had 591-gigawatt hours capacity, battery capacity, produced in 2020 -- required in 2020. We will be at 1,700 more in 2025. And we will be 2030 at 2,158 gigawatt hours per annum required only to cover this e-car requirement. And this is a big opportunity for us, which we really are pursuing. I do believe that we are on track here. We have a small portion in this one of the pieces, a tremendous business. And I would like to show you where we are already dealing in terms of further opportunities in the future. I mean it's not only the battery. I mean we will have some combustion engine losses. So plus parts needed in the powertrain, but we have so many opportunities in electrical vehicles as well as batteries. I can tell you, if we look at our die division at [indiscernible], basically 90% of all the orders we are getting this year are within electrification of the car. I don't go in all the details here, but you see everywhere where you see a check mark on these pages, we are producing prototypes. We produce service production [ dies ] the machines for it. Here, you see some ideas how to go into the future with partners. We are really investigating right now how we can create the vertical and horizontal integration to widen our core product portfolio in these 2 fields. The same in batteries. I mean we are in the sale [ housings ] that are in cylindrical office market. It's clear that we are cutting this electrodes, et cetera of course, the buying and we're building the dies for it. So we are everywhere, right. We are making the model housings. And here, we have competitive ideas, new patents coming up in the next couple of days, weeks and months. And even here on the battery side, we really, we try to expand our portfolio beyond only the classic only cutting area. Good to give you an overview. As mentioned at the beginning, we went through a structuring. It was necessary. We finally had to consolidate all the many companies we were. We had to adapt ourself to the new market environment. We had to make ourself [ rich ], and we made a lot of things. I mean I explained at the beginning already '18 and '19, we started with some projects called future concept as well as fit for growth. We spin off our unique body panel, we closed our PTV or PWE in buying up, the PWE stands for powertrain buying up, and we said everything downsized our buy grew to breakeven point of EUR 50 million. It's nearly 30% less. We reorganized our hydraulic division given by optimizing our infrastructure. We streamlined our divisions, and we took a lot of international measures and made a lot of product adjustments. I mean the Separation with nonprofit or product groups is a key. I think we have now the right product portfolio. We are not yet there where we would like to be, but we are completely different company than we were 3 years ago. And if you look at the headcount, we don't have to add so much on this one. I mean we went from roughly 6,200 people by the end of '18 to really end up by the end of this year at 4,800 people. Most of them, more than 1,200, is production only in Germany. And I would like to already mention this at this stage, we do believe that we can reach the same volume as before with this -- about the organization, of course. We have less manufacturing that with the higher possibility of the organization of the cost. And if we summarize this, if we compare it to 2019, we have 20% less volume in 2021. We had less order intake last year, but we reduced our gross expenses by 25%. And if I look at the profitability without nonoperating item, even though we have lower sales, we increased our profitability compared to 2019, nearly at 300%. And it makes me very confident for the future. It's reduced our breakeven point by far than -- more than EUR 200 million. So this is, in our eyes, the right basis for growth in the future. The short outlook for 2021. Looking at the time, I mean we will continue with our core strategy. It will stay our backbone. We have also initiated additional measures to go through 2021. We still have some temporary measures like short-time work and paid leave in the U.S. We will have still -- we have seen it on limited capacity adjustments in '21. We will continue -- we will not stop to further streamline our infrastructure. There is a lot of potential resulting of the past. We'll further work on the innovation of our products. At the same time, we're reducing the product cost. And we are coming out with new products in the field of electrification. I mean 2021 will be challenging. Nevertheless, I'm quite confident and so far happy on where we are to the course of business supply 2021. This is really reason to be confident. Beside us in the development of order intake, which is more or less in the range we expected, we are able to be very -- we are able to be profitable on a very low sales volume. And we expect stabilization of the business starting 2022. I mean our road map for the next years, I mean it's clear. We have to improve profitability. We have to grow business volume again after this restructuring, this transformation of the company. We really need to rebuild [ informal ] business volume and profitability. So we will benefit from the electro ability and try and convince we will be able to pay shares up to 50%. We had to get back with ourselves business above 25%. And we will expand our own automotive product on a good way as well. And it would result again in revenue growing towards EUR 1.2 billion. And I would like to mention without upside potentials, which I'll show you in the field of renewable energy. And of course, by increasing our revenue, we would like to -- we will improve our profitability at least 1% per annum. And I would like to make one remark to a question which has been raised this morning. I'm personally convinced that we not always need volume to get more profitable, we are now proving it. We need healthy growth rate, and we have to start from a lower volume. And if volume is coming, we think that additional profitability by keeping cautious. So after a very slow start, I speed up at the end and I'm available for questions. Thank you.

Okay. Thanks, Domenico. Many thanks. We already have a question from Simon again. Simon, go ahead.

Sorry, I'm dominating. Yes, so just to understand, your market share today is 11.6%. But in that last slide, you said you are targeting 50% in electric, is that right?

Yes, that's right.

So are you seeing the shift to electric as a significant opportunity for the market to consolidate? Because it's quite fragmented today. And why exactly is that?

I mean it is quite fragmented. I mean there are 2 sides that are the new start-up companies, which we all know coming up, popping up and building a car around the computer, which is great. On the other hand, we see the existing OEMs, the big ones going to electrification as well. And if I'm talking about 50%, you have to understand if I'm selling a press line for an e-vehicle manufacturer, this is even part of the electrification. We have a huge chance. You heard today from [ your team ] that there's a new architecture coming up for electromobility. In the future, we will have a new base of electric car. But the next 5 years, OEMs are forced to build old cars, new cars as well. Because some of us, we like to continue with our hybrid cars, which are based on an old architecture, just adding one electrical motor and a small battery in the back. And on the other side, we are coming up with this gatefold [ break forth ] architecture for new designs. This will create an additional hype for us, and I see it as a bigger chance.

Maybe the question was whether there is consolidation opportunity on the side of [ price ] manufacturers, if I understood the question correct.

Right [indiscernible] and OEMs and explain on the [indiscernible] yes, we see already a consolidation but right on the smaller companies, as the big companies [indiscernible] increasing the market shares. And the smaller, how do you call them, will be consolidated. That's our expectation, but we don't have to underestimate. There are so many small price manufactures as a [ normal top shops ] all around the world. They can live with one price a year because they just deliver across the world.

Right. Okay. Do you think that mom-and-pop type structure of the market will continue eventually into the electric vehicle -- into the world of electric vehicles? I mean, I guess what I'm saying is, do the largest players prevail when we move to electrification? And does that then result in a much more concentrated market long term?

Yes. I do think so because many, many of the new players in the market, they rely on existing big players. I mean they are making big investments, and they really rely on big companies that often we recognize, and the upscaling of this battery electrical vehicles is always global and a small company cannot support.

Thanks, Simon. Now we have Will, Will Turner from Goldman Sachs. Will, go ahead. Are you there, Will? Just unmute the micro. Otherwise, we will proceed with Richard Schramm, again, from HSBC. Richard?

Yes. I have also a question on this business with, let's say, electric vehicles. And as you just said, it will be mainly the, let's say, traditional vehicle with a car battery you're focusing on. But what explicit business is there in the future for your clearly related to the electric vehicle, which goes beyond these traditional car body components you are manufacturing on your process here.

That's good question. And maybe I was not able to explain it right. I mean that's exactly the additional business we see. I mean we're making a body structure. We have a different architecture. We use the same technologies we have today. Really, the growth potential we see in batteries and as well as electrical engines. And I already stated that if I look at the order intake of Aviva, which is our value group, is -- 99% of the order intake is already into this electrical -- is already in these electrical engines, and we see the growth potential. So it might be battery cases. It might be houses for electrical engines. It might be in -- people are [ plates ] in hydrogen. You should not forget this line. So these are the additional businesses beyond classic manufacturing of cars we know today. So really the shift from powertrain, combustion powertrain towards electrification.

And what is then the portion at the moment already in this area? Maybe I missed the number, I'm sorry.

No, I did not tell the number. I would say last year, it was close to 20%, if not above 20%.

Okay. So already a significant portion of your business here to build on?

Yes.

Okay. Will from Goldman Sachs has sent me his question, but Will, I will read them. Domenico, how are large CapEx decisions developing about [indiscernible] strength for component shortage resulted in customers delaying large planned CapEx expansions?

It was very hard to understand you, but I think the question was whether the customer have hesitation to build larger plants or making bigger CapEx decisions, right?

Delaying large planned CapEx expansions.

I have to say that this is not what we are figuring out. I mean it's clear. We had lower volume last year. And in 2021, we'll be difficult on this one, but we know the plans of the larger OEMs as well as some pioneers, let's say, in this field. And they are enlarging their plans, very substantial and very fast. So we do really believe that starting from 2022, there will be an increase of capacity not only driven by China but even by U.S. and a small portion in Germany. I mean it's clear that the German market in this regard is more saturated. So talking about our old-fashioned OEMs. We have enough capacity for the European market. But if you look abroad, there is -- there will be investments, there are ongoing investments even this year. Due to some NDAs, I cannot disclose the names. There are huge investments right now ongoing in huge capital equipment in our area.

Okay. The next question from Will is, are some EV customers using existing Schuler equipment under pressure? Or is this driving new orders? Is the main opportunity relating to battery sales with regard to e-mobility? So are existing customers using existing equipment, or will it drive new orders?

No. I mean there's a good point. And that's what I tried to explain with 2 different architectures. On one hand, they have to produce on the existing equipment, existing car models. But they have to build up parallelly new capacity to produce new cars or the new electrical cars. Here, we are talking about the standard architecture of the car, body in white and so on. On the other hand, battery is a completely new field coming on top.

And the last question from Will is, when do you feel Schuler will have reached an optimal cost base versus competition? So it's about the cost base.

I'm very confident that it is -- that we are very close to it already. I would say 2022 latest. So if we -- that's our expectation, that's what we see. We reached volume-wise the rock bottom this year, and we are now already competitive with our cost base. And I just would like to take one number in percentage just that you get a feeling. Now I'm not talking about product costs, so not just our overhead. We reduced our OpEx compared to 2018 by more than 30%, and we will keep this even though we believe that we can gain our volume back, and we are on track this year in this regard.

Thanks. We have a final question received from Daniel Lion from Erste Bank. Daniel?

Can you somehow put it in figures, what's the change in your total addressable market from the additional business from battery vehicles or electric vehicles?

It's difficult to say -- it is difficult to say. But I would -- I mean that's really a rough estimation, but really in short, '21, '22, I would say roughly 20%. But difficult to figure out because the additional business, additional one is only coming. I can say what we achieved last year. But considering the development which I showed in electrical vehicles over the next 10 years, normally, we should be in line with this development. So if Germany will be at 50% in 2025, we should go in the same direction.

Okay. And a question to the digitization of the production lines and plants. Would you see this as actually strong USP especially compared to the smaller producers of presses that digitization actually moves ahead and will become utmost necessary in order to be price competitive?

It is an enabler. It is an enabler definitely. I mean we have different kind of customers. I mean we have the big OEMs. They have their own digitalization platform, and they are asking whatever supply, whether it's a big one or a small one, to supply information. They will combine -- they will make the big data and create their own artificial intelligence out of these data. Then we have smaller customer. They don't have the power to develop their own digital platform. There, we are strong. We are really strong, and we create a USP for these ones. And yes, I'm convinced that it gives us price advantage on one hand, but more competitiveness to the customers. And at the end, it comes always back to euro/dollar per part, and digitalization definitely helps for this one. But if I look how much we spend at Schuler into the field of digitalization over 1 decade, I do not believe that a smaller company can do the same.

Okay. And one last one. Do I understand you correctly that you expect the entire press lines currently used for ICE to be replaced in the coming years for electric ones?

No. It will not be replaced. We have to be careful. We have to be careful because it is additional. I do expect that the growth in overall sold or overall required light vehicles will be dominated by electrical vehicles. So I mean we can look at different models. I mean there are models saying 2030, we will reach 120 million cars. There are models saying we will reach 105 million cars. Let's just take 110 million cars, which is in the middle. And electrical vehicle will reach 20 million. So the growth will mainly be there. So you have to keep the production lines. You have to satisfy the demand. That's what we really see. I mean again, I cannot disclose these. But if I look at the plans and the press lines which will be installed, especially next year or sold next year from a German OEM in certain areas of the world confirms definitely these cases.

So would you expect services to increase going forward as the lifetime of the ICE production lines will be extended because the number of produced cars will be reduced going forward? Is this an opportunity for you, margin-wise?

It is a huge opportunity for us. On one hand, we believe that we can generate new capital business. We have to be careful not talking only about press lines because in the meantime, it does makes a big part of our company, which is a good sign as well. We are reaching a reasonable volume even with small prices. So it makes us less [ foolable ]. And the second one, you're right, especially if you look -- if I look at the United States. We have a fantastic service business for retrofitting all lines, not only Schuler lines. It goes really in the right direction, and we see their potential, huge potential. And by the way, we already had some achievements in this regard and pleased with these numbers.

Okay. Perfect. Thank you very much. And sorry for being that long.

That's okay. We have one final question from Peter Rothenaicher from Baader-Helvea. Peter?

Can you help us to bring the figures a little bit together? So you mentioned by 2024, you're targeting EUR 1.2 billion sales until the upcoming year's 1% margin improvement per annum. So where will we stand in 2021? Can you give here a figure? And Andreas has given a target for the metals area of 6% to 7% margin. So this means your target for 2024 also means 6% to 7% or...

So what I can confirm is really for 2024. It is definitely our target to be at 6%. We will not be there in 2021, but we will definitely be on positive figures even though we have more or less 20% lower volume as a sales, as a revenue than 2019.

And what -- can you give us again the sales figure for 2019?

Yes. I mean in the past, I think 2019 has still been publicated if Wolfgang Leitner is now not stepping in. I can say -- I mean in 2019, we roughly had volume of a little bit above EUR 1.1 billion.

Okay. Thank you.

Does that answer your question, Peter?

Yes. So if I calculate it correct, so we will be in 2021 at EUR 920 million or something like that perhaps.

You are not far away.

Okay.

Okay. Thanks, Peter. Okay. Thanks very much. I think we are perfectly on time. We'll now get a break, and we'll start the conference again at 12:45, yes, our time, CET. So okay. Thank you very much. [Break]

[Audio Gap] We have to say that's an ongoing effort. COVID-19 basically reduce the general stance in investments. However, we received already several major orders this year, but this is for sure how our big target in the years to come. We want to further improve profitability. This, we have achieved. We have strongly improved our profitability, on one hand, to optimizing our processes but also to long-term cost reductions we have done over the last years. We wanted to evaluate the probability to grow to EUR 1 billion revenue business area in the long term, also with merger and acquisition that is ongoing. But you will see later that this is a clear target to reach that in the near future. Offering attractive IoT solutions with Metris, I think we have several very good examples that we could state achieved on that side. Maybe as an overview where is Separation in? Generally, you can say we are well above 40% in the service portion. And the remainder, if you look on the separation portfolio, which is the watering, drying is in 4 major industries, all big. Most of them are very well growing, but we are only not covering the whole industries, but they are niches. So it's food/beverage; environment, which is our biggest portion of the business; the chemical sector; and the mining and mineral. What are we covering? So basically, we have around, I would say, at least 20 product homes all dealing with the watering and drying. So on the watering, you can look into filter presses. We have filter presses, lighter version for environment, heavy duty for the mining industry. We have decanters. We have pusher centrifuges, since separators. We have all kind of disk and drum filters, pressurized ones, vacuum ones, hyperbaric filters. We have screens, drains, presses, group presses, belt presses, several types from light-duty environment to heavy-duty presses for the mining industry. So we can clearly say we have the biggest portfolio by far compared to our competition, which offers good opportunities for the future but has been a challenge we were fighting the last years. If you look at the drying areas, we have several drying technologies starting from health dryers, drum dryers, metal dryers, rotary dryers, fluid dryers, plate dryers. This gives us the possibility to offer the best and most suitable solution to our clients' challenges. This is a clear [ USP ] compared to our competition, which maybe can offer only one solution and has to offer it even if it's not maybe the right one. But it has been, for us, you can say, bloody journey to get all these lines because we had -- still have theoretically competing products. And in order to align that and organize ourselves with a clear focus on industries, with a clear industry management offering, the best out of our basket took some time. But I can say we have achieved that, and this is also part of the improvements we can see in this business area. Next. Okay. If you look for the feed and biofuel area, we also have an animal feed, aqua feed, pet food, small today as an industry but strongly growing and in the biofuel offering equipment under complete solutions with also various techniques, starting from pellet presses and hammer mills up to basically...

Extruders.

Extruders, sorry, extruders and in biofuel basically, we can cover together with technologies from that pulp and paper, the complete process, starting from the [ lock ] until the final pellet, whether it's a biomass pellet, solid biofuel and waste pellet. Our focused strategy is based on 4 pillars. And the future, we are targeting since we have reached, I would say, acceptable profitability, the target is to grow from the current base. It's, as stated already before, getting from an equipment supplier to a solutions provider. We want to be one of the most innovative companies in the industry. We want to be service driven, keep our service mind. And we strive for being excellent in all the business operations we are in. Just to give you an overview of some of the innovations we have been working on in the past years lately, very much striving what we're also doing in the pulp and paper service. We want to offer solutions which enable us -- which enable our customers to lower their operating costs, whether it's energy reduction, chemical reductions, flocculants and so on or steam consumption reductions. The other thing, what we are aiming for is to get our product costs down either by improving the operations that we can with existing sizes, achieve a higher throughput or working on simplified designs of our machines, thus lowering the product count. One example, for example, when you see in the middle, extension of application range with the vacuum drum filter. Basically, we have replaced the drum from the very expensive alloy material to a much lighter -- sorry. Okay -- to a much lighter version, which is basically high-resistant polymer. And it also is -- gives some operating cost benefit, lower energy consumption for our customers. In a similar range is the energy efficiency pusher centrifuge also with simplified design, light design, thus lowering also energy consumption. And the very interesting development was the so-called intelligent filter press, basically here, we are optimizing press time, the time we use for pressing, which can be from a few seconds to 10 minutes by measuring pressure, temperature in the cake. How we do that? We have installed sensors in the filter plate and in the filter cloth, thus making them to an intelligent filter plate filter cloth. On one hand, by optimizing the press time, we can increase the throughput with existing machines. On the other hand, we can lower the energy costs for the customers by reducing unnecessary press time. Then there was a few examples on that. If you look for the animal feed biofuel area, we are working basically the majority of our R&D expenses and development goes into life cycle management, optimizing our existing machines, upgrading machines. We have a dual use not only like the Paladin for biofuel but also for waste compacting, which we believe will be a major trend in the years to come. On the innovation side, we are developing, let's say, completing our product range, developing equipment. We have not been yet in like Twin Screw Extruder, the aftermarket have to excuse, there is a typo there. In the aftermarket, we have more than 10,000 machines in our Online Spare catalog. The aim is to make it easier to make business with us. What can we achieve by that? We can reduce heavily the time for quotations because we have all the parts in a 3D model, in our Spare Part catalog, customers can choose. Our engineers can easily find. And we have managed in many cases, look at the -- for 80% of our business, we can quote within 24 hours. And speed kills in many cases, that you can increase market share on parts. If you look market potential, on one hand, we are looking into new megatrends like what I will show a little bit later. This nonanimal protein is a growing -- potential growing market, and we are also investing in extending our product footprint. We have -- or we are currently executing a large investment in a new die manufacturing plant in China, which gives us the possibility by being local for local to increase our price competitiveness but also lead time to a major market, avoiding shipping these products from Europe. We're already world market leader in this spare part on dies. But I think we can extend that position by being also now directly present in Asia. And this is an example of this Metris Vibe monitoring system. Basically, we decided and we are doing it already to equip all our delivered machine with these sensors, giving the possibility to continuously monitor the equipment, kind of an asset management also. This gives the ability to plan downtime because we can foresee when a part should be changed that would use this downtime, increases the availability of our customers. And we see big success, and it also enables us to make long-term service agreements with the customers because we can also provide the service from outside the customer location, by collecting all the data and giving advice to the customer when which part should be changed, what's the optimum time. That's one, I would say, target where we want to get in. We have stated already before that we are going in growing markets like e-mobility with lithium, where we have achieved a very good market penetration, delivering to all the major global customers in that area, mine operators. And here, alternative proteins are future trend. It's very good growth rates. If we go to plant protein, majority is feed protein. We have gross potential -- or annual gross potential of 7.7%. Here, they are established big players, and we have been in contact that we are delivering to the major players like Roquette, DSM. For example, we have seen major equipment delivered to the biggest investment of Roquette ever in Canada on a P-protein plant. Insects is a small business today but we're seeing strongly growing with nearly 50% growth per annum. Here, we are basically in context with start-up companies like this insect, BioflyTech. And also, we are discussing with the companies activity in the algae market. This is part of our strategy to really enter new markets. I mean we are not planning to go into industry where our competition since decades has leading positions, like in the breweries or big producers. But going into these new applications -- another application, for example, is the tailings in the mining industry. The investments have been postponed due to, I would say, COVID because governments didn't want to further punish the industry, but there is a big need to dewater the ponds. Many of you will remember the tragedy which has happened in Brazil and also in Hungary. With the red mud, dozens of people died because the dam broke and then the red mud basically devastated complete villages. There is a trend to basically empty these ponds, dewater these ponds and make it safe. We're investing also in that. How we want to achieve that? We have decided to invest in a pilot plant. It was a lot of this alternative protein and such investments are based on a joint development with the major customers. And by having the possibility that our customers can basically test their products or their processes in our pilot plants, we think we can expand or enter really this market as a complete solution provider. Summarizing road map '22-'24. I think already have stated, further establish ANDRITZ as premium brand, [indiscernible], grow the business volume to EUR 1 billion. So we are -- have made a next step not evaluate but grow it really there. We want to become a technology leader by investments in pilot plants, increase launch of new products. And we are closing still white spots with our service growth, investment in [indiscernible] manufacturing, now die shop China, et cetera. We have raised our margin -- EBITA margin goal to 9% to 11%. I think if you look at half year numbers, you can see we are well in this direction. But we want to keep the profitability also. We foresee that the growth in the capital business will outperform their still 2 to 3x the market [ over the year ] growth in the service business to reach this EUR 1 billion target in spite of the higher capital portion in the capital service share. We still believe that with the continuation of cost up, transfer of products and engineering to best cost country, we can reach that. We have to complete. We have done a lot in the past, the restructuring of low-performing units, and we have a lot of manufacturing engineering, we have transferred from the high-cost countries, Germany, to so-called best-cost countries. Process Solutions, I've stated and another goal is to gain a future leadership by implementing innovative and integrated solutions. Here, we benefit as the smallest business area from the bigger business area in the ANDRITZ Group and our automations group. Thank you, and we're open for question.

Okay. Many thanks, Humbert. Now we are ready for questions and Sven again. Sven, please.

Yes. It's on the M&A side in separation, I mean we know that especially on the decanter side, the market is extremely fragmented with a lot of private players, probably one of the most fragmented markets you compete in. But consolidation has not really happened in the last few years. So is it that all of these private players are not for sale? Or how do you evaluate the situation now?

Well, it's very much family business, which maybe not for sale. The other thing is, as I said, buying another company may not solve our strategy to move from equipment supplier to a solution supplier. So I think we have done a lot of these acquisitions of competing products in the past. We have suffered for years on that because even if the part of 100, they still competed, which is rather inside the company. So the strategy really to buy another competitor to consolidate the market on the equipment level is not really what we're looking for. We are looking more for buying -- acquiring companies, which can offer process solutions, engineering solutions over having a technology not yet in our product portfolio but not buying a pure competitor where we are daily in competition on the single equipment business.

Thank you. And then you mentioned about innovation, right? I remember a few years ago, we had these issues in Separation with the product introduction in China, I think, which are now sorted, of course. But how do you make sure that these things don't happen again?

That was basically the big issues we had, bringing unmature products to the market. I think we have professionalized much more. I mean we have solved the issues there, they are quite long. But we -- let's say, we suffered a few years on that. But if I look at the last 5, 6 years, we never had a case where we brought in a product in the market. I mean at that time, they're not very intelligent solution, was not only just bring one product to a customer, but we sold at the same time 12 prototypes to a number of customers. Now if we bring in a new product, is that basically we inform the customer that it is a newly developed product. And we make sure that we only sell one of a kind proof that it's working before we roll it out in the market. This may not bring us so fast in a growth mode, but it brings us in a safe growth mode.

Okay. Many thanks, Sven. Any other questions? Otherwise, Wolfgang, I think.

Filling the time. I think separation aspect been question, does it fit into the ANDRITZ portfolio? It's basically 10% of our sales. It's -- on the one hand, we are in Separation, we're bigger than many of the competitors in separation. But we are smaller than a few big competitors. And obviously, the conservation was on the big competitors. The question is, is there a way you can run this business successfully. At that time, we said we want to turn it around first, develop the potential, and then we can decide whether we divest or whether we tip, and then we have decided after turning it around and after really showing that we can make it profitable to keep it. Why have we decided that? Number one, it's from a risk profile also. We just heard a story about this 12, I think, prototypes. But still on the risk profile, it is far, far less risky than the big project we do in part in paper, in steel and many other areas. Number two, size may be important but it's -- more important is the market because this is a competitive position in individual segments. And these segments are very small. And the segments tend to be dominated by very different competitors. We think that to be successful in these segments, ideally, you can offer solutions. We talked about that, meaning to cover the better part of the respective process line, which, by the way, has been the success principle we had in APP for example, concentrating on adding inventory products and not buying direct competitors of products we already have. And there are many, many success stories in the separation business area. The biggest baby food manufacturer in the world is relying specifically on ANDRITZ dryes. Humbert mentioned that the dies, there is no pellet without a die. In dies, we are #1. That's a good example, by the way, that you can develop a very successful, profitable business, providing or supplying wear parts, these famous engineered wear parts to customers that are running competitors better prices in this case. So we are seen as a leading, independent -- more or less independent, die manufacture, doesn't play an important role that we also offer in the pellet presses. Customers decide for our dies. We have a very strong position in waste water treatment, sludge -- the handling of the sludge that comes out of this equipment plant. And remember, we built the biggest plant for Hong Kong, for Shanghai, for Singapore, many other countries, many other cities. I think there -- as I said, there are many, many -- maybe one last example, we have developed new Separation technology, let's call it cross-flow filtration. Today, the -- by far, the biggest supplier of a very important life-saving pharmaceutical ingredient, so command some global market share of more than 60%. I think it's relying on this cross-flow filtration equipment from EBIT. So I think there's no chance to make a big chunk organically. I mean you have to conquer each small segment after the other, develop technology, develop expertise for the complete process. Ideally, you can add one in the other company, complementary company to be successful in these segments. And that's our goal, another EUR 1 billion. Obviously, it would require sizable acquisitions in the next 3 years. But if you give us 1 or 2 more years, I think we can also achieve it organically. Have we promised to achieve EUR 1 billion without acquisitions, Humbert?

I said that we are going forward this EUR 1 billion without acquisitions, maybe not '24. Maybe it's '25.

Okay. So maybe -- okay.

But -- or very small acquisitions just to complete the range, helping us to offer complete solutions.

And in short, there are organic -- definitely organic growth opportunities and also [indiscernible] the data opportunity. And we think Separation will continue to be nicely profitable, growing part of the EBIT.

Okay. Thank you very much. As there are no further questions, I think we will then move on to the hydropower business. And then I would like to ask Wolfgang Semper to present hydropower. I'll start sharing the presentation.

Okay. Thank you. Good afternoon to everybody. Now I'd like us to introduce hydro. I'm going to follow the same pattern just to review the past year, where we have had a strong focus on rightsizing structures, capacity adjustments in line to remain on a reasonable profitability. So we achieved only 2020, we have more significant onetime cost adjustment where we didn't fulfill our promises of being 7% to 8.5% ROS corridor. We have been very much committed to this and lost confidence but we have the rightsized company now adjusted to a low level in revenues. And I learned that there are good beliefs that volume will grow, and we have a very competitive structure. Also, there is changes in the marketing environment in sales. So we have more projects in the brownfield area, means upgrading existing power stations, reequipping existing power station business, and it will continue several [ possible ] typical greenfield market where the installation are taking place in the past decade, [indiscernible]. So also in the European context, you know there is very much agenda to carbon-free energy. We see that there is a strong trend to not continue any more with more hydropower, new installations [indiscernible] installations in [indiscernible] Europe and concentrate in [indiscernible] storage businesses. So [indiscernible] restructuring the sites, but also restructuring the structures and new machines for the world-wide location. Well, we do think that they are on the right track and we have some success stories in that, we will forward to operational maintenance. And from there, our [indiscernible] is, of course, a strong digitalization road map. We are very much successful. We have been operating now more than [indiscernible] with more than [indiscernible] power plants and we will continue on this growth. [indiscernible] that hydro is still is a very old business [indiscernible] some strategies. So without hydro, the new renewables, like some wind and like ANDRITZ doing solar will not be able to support the green energy transition. So hydro [indiscernible]. Still it's -- the energy is very, very low. [indiscernible] processes are low. We are seeing a capital-based energy of electricity and several partners are more and more [indiscernible]. We believe that what ANDRITZ saying for international energy agencies [indiscernible], there is an accelerated rates in new installations in Asia in an accelerated pace in [indiscernible]. On the next slide, we give some evidence that hydropower is a really important contributor to system flexibility and stability. So you see we are discussing batteries and storage for electricity, meaning in the context of if you compare just to pumped storage, that it plays a non-significant role and will not be very efficient growth [indiscernible]. If we take the full capacity of hydropower, then you rather can see batteries in this chart. So there is a economic growth in this context also [indiscernible] we discussed whether we enlarge [indiscernible] help our earnings to stay in the energy, otherwise we will face a tough time. So the next slide, I'm going to also [indiscernible]. So you'll see here what is the expectation [indiscernible] also the deep scenario they are by the international energy agencies [indiscernible] have much more aggressive ones where the new installs will be very higher in next year. However, [indiscernible] is almost 50-50 split already in, for instance, [indiscernible]. And of course, on the right chart -- on the right side of the chart, you'll see what is the share of brownfield or how is brownfield defined and what is the share of uprates and what is the share of replacement. Means, replacements [indiscernible] without the [indiscernible] that much different cheaper. Since it's completely new, most modern technology, once we go to uprate, most of the components section or components will remain [indiscernible] therefore we've had a lot of special deductions for the change parts and in the [indiscernible] in order to really uprate means to increase power. The influence of the area on the brownfield is, of course, very less, harsh than on the greenfield. So given that scenario, we do see on great opportunities [indiscernible]. We are quite sure that we're getting our [indiscernible]. Global market. You have seen this chart since some time in the presentations. Picture is not changing that for market, so we have years up and downs with larger single power plants where they are going to drive order intake in a single year. If we go on the average, we can see [indiscernible], let's say, in that [indiscernible] have reasonable sizes [indiscernible] will be ordered by a single larger for Q3 for larger projects. 2020 was, of course, affected due to COVID. We have seen postponements, especially in the brownfield regulation business since utilities and investors in risk at [indiscernible] emergency to stop a running system in a power plant. [indiscernible] we think we have postponed another year. We see this year quite an excellent development in this area. As mentioned in the introduction by Mr. Leitner that hydro will reach 100%. Green energy, if you go to the next slide, we'll give some evidence [indiscernible]. So here, obviously...

[indiscernible]

ANDRITZ is usually very fast in...

Receiver.

[indiscernible] with sustainable solutions by and how hydro contribute to climate neutrality and climate protection.

[indiscernible]

No, it's not.

[indiscernible]

So now we have. So here, starting with IHA. And this is [indiscernible] and IEA that went for us [indiscernible] every year is supplied by hydropower and then you can start [indiscernible] it will be substituted by [indiscernible] power plant station. Just to take [indiscernible] if we look on the last bullet point, ANDRITZ with its globally installed fleet has around 900 million tonnes per year contribution on reducing CO2 emissions. [indiscernible], which gives us, as I mentioned before, in the brownfield, [indiscernible]. The other angle, where we do see is, of course, the pumped storage hydropower is like a green, rechargeable battery [indiscernible] just need to reinforce that this is not fake, this is reality and it's from [indiscernible] point of view the only industrial size storage possibility [indiscernible]. If we go to our product portfolio, I assume you are [indiscernible]. So we are in a position to deliver for all types of sizes, electromechanical equipment for the hydropower plants was more than 32,000 turbines out, corresponding to more than 470,000 megawatts will find the basic needs. We are -- we also see some modernizations and retrofitting [indiscernible] and market leaders in this respect. There is some niches where we have good references. So [indiscernible] it's not the big driver today and our volumes are not [indiscernible] interesting opportunity in the next future. I do like when we have largest installations equipped or refurbished out of [indiscernible] group. One, we discussed at the beginning operation [indiscernible] asset management services becomes more important. So more than in the past [indiscernible] in hydropower, they don't have any experience in running the power [indiscernible] to maintain to the power plant. So they are relying more and more on suppliers and on us to keep the power plants optimize [indiscernible]. As far as, pumps are concerned, so we do have also process pumps predominantly [indiscernible] by the substantial share and special pumps, water transportation, desalination and special applications, which is very relevant in all the [indiscernible]. Coming again back to our operation maintenance scenario, asset management platform based on Metris DIOMera, and we'll see later on in the presentation on automation and we were already merged by working that we have [indiscernible] numbers to [indiscernible] automation is concerned, we are pretty much engaged in this type of services. We are enhancing almost [indiscernible] and we have lost that we have as far as possible kind of development [indiscernible] station and later on the various actual business we do have since we entered into [indiscernible]. Now being more precise [indiscernible] hydro. So we have, of course, hear very physical dominated situation, it's not that much complicated to run. And [indiscernible] this has been [indiscernible] many years with an automated [indiscernible]. It's maybe more complicated to [indiscernible] the processing to since there is many hard parameters. So we are trying together with our clients to monitor fingerprint [indiscernible] of all the equipment in hydropower and coming to optimization of individual turbines, [indiscernible] where they will be playing [indiscernible] is, of course, optimize that we operate [indiscernible] since part of our value. They were [indiscernible] years ago to have the best maintenance strategy and at least where we saw. So this is a challenge for all of the power plants in [indiscernible] maintenance wise and to plan in a way that they can deliver for the market [indiscernible]. So we have the advantage that we are patient in this business. We have a big [indiscernible] for our design and our engineering. On the one hand, we are more and more [indiscernible] after having commission [indiscernible]. So although it's an ongoing business and we have right [indiscernible] status later on when it comes to larger investments in terms of business. Research and development was not only in performance, but also in environmental performance. Means that there is a strong focus to get the turbine generator [indiscernible] bearings where they were used in the past to see some [indiscernible]. So all this is very much [indiscernible] defined. We do feel that we are on top of this. We have already more than 120 references in [indiscernible] oil-free design and this is the trend actually we touched [indiscernible] that it become a challenge to convert an old-fashioned power plants to oil-free design power plant. Fish friendliness is also a concern. There's still some fishes [indiscernible] up or down. So the turbines and very special effort [indiscernible] in the U.S. market, and now growing more and more to Europe and the U.S. to have special designs that you know how fishes can be [indiscernible] can be seen with sensor fishes in certain prior period and also in the excellent [indiscernible] that we are doing [indiscernible]. In some rather southern areas have ultimately changed later on. So we have here certain designs where we can see downstream oxygen to the [indiscernible] in order to regain favorable oxygen rates in the [indiscernible] which is in the southern area some times. In terms of grid flexibility and grid stability, we are pretty much on the edge. So we have developed and have excellent references in new generator technologies in terms of variable speed. So variable speed is [indiscernible] in order to increase the range, where we can optimize range for operational [indiscernible]. It means that you can see the [indiscernible] of efficiency already in a way, that the rates [indiscernible] possibility of large scale. So we have a quite good references in variable speed plus double fed induction machines, full-size converters. We are just implementing this first power plant here in Austria in the Kühtai area. And [indiscernible] new application is synchronous condenser in order to stabilize the grid. If you have very long transmission lines, you need to have in between mass, masses, physical masses. And this is synchronous condensers generators. Just being here not to generate energy but just to stabilize energy and stabilize the grid. And here, we have special indication, so it was in the industry of renewable of the total generators, all the kind, but [indiscernible] demands and are more sophisticated. We have developed a certain range to [indiscernible] quite successful now in Australia, in Brazil, in the U.S. and there is more to come. So we are really confident. Now here comes 2 example that this leads also to success, not only 2 nice pictures. Australia is very much committed to convert from thermal energy to renewable energy. And therefore, there is quite some activity there and we has taken an order for pumped turbine and especially [indiscernible], this is an old mining area. The mine was closed, but there was still infrastructure available to distribute in [indiscernible] energy. So there was some years ago the idea to install solar power plant, and it's now being competed with the wind power plant as well as this -- the pumped storage power plant. And so you could -- the client can now guarantee energy delivery at a certain date with a certain power what he couldn't before, once he has installed solar [indiscernible]. So this is a tremendous advantage in the feasibility. And we are going to equipped this power plant and operate in the ANDRITZ power plant at least 10 years after we have commissioned this plant. It's also very much confident to the lenders, and so it was [indiscernible] samples, modernization and upgrade, so especially in North America. There is a lot of mature power plants, and there is very unusual stance in Canada [indiscernible] announced what will happen in the next 10 years in [indiscernible] just recently got [indiscernible] upgrade revenue sales [indiscernible]. It's a long-term engagement from our side. It gives us a really sound and reasonable [indiscernible] locations. We haven't had same in Rock Island in the U.S., of course, as we have been in this [indiscernible] since 10 years. And in Mexico, also larger will be power plants [indiscernible]. We upgraded now and we have a good position in this country [indiscernible] mix on the low-cost operation in Mexico and [indiscernible] based and R&D-based location in Canada and U.S.A. As far as innovation is concerned, there also indications some European funding projects, one example here is that we are upgrading our knowledge of batteries for fast and dynamic frequency response influences the hydropower equipment, what is the need of the equipment, how we design the equipment [indiscernible] change. And here we are very good in this environment that we can learn a lot that we can develop our systems and we can [indiscernible]. What is the road map? We have divided the road map in the traditional business model where we keep going being cost competitive. Means, we have a very close look on our structures, on our internal costs, on our products [indiscernible]. It's always a prototype. However, we need to also understand that we need to be very sure where's the [indiscernible] part lies or a lot [indiscernible] near our product. So we are engaging also in this early stage. Development, lot of investors at this technology partner, gaining as preferred partner status and can later on, I'd say, on the potential of the project and from the optimizations. We have [indiscernible] where there also benefit [indiscernible] more feasible than [indiscernible]. Research and development, I guess, I have elaborated on that. Just to -- as a side remark, we will commission the most high head test rig in '22. So this will [indiscernible] possibilities and especially of development and services is still [indiscernible] in our business and we are enlarging our services and offerings. We have regional control centers to operate the power plants, and this will be spent over. So having said that, we have been committing ourselves to at least 7% return on sales and a business volume of EUR 1.5 billion. There is more to come, hopefully. Means, if we believe in all the announcement on the green deal, [indiscernible] more possibilities to roll our business to grow the hydro business as such is what I mentioned before, there will be more integrated plants. So ANDRITZ's status is the community [indiscernible] Technological data, I mentioned before, we have quite back some good orders where we generate good regulators [indiscernible] of technology [indiscernible] and not only the price. Batteries, we have the one other idea. We have cooperation with Mercedes-Benz Energy. They are good in dealing with batteries and for lots of storage as such, but for Australian currency response, demand response, design and deliver. We're seeing [indiscernible]. All these are positive by [indiscernible] another additional advantage from our technology position compared to our competitors. Green hydrogen, a real [indiscernible] economic driver, a real driver for new installations. There were a lot of remote sites discussed 20 years, 30 years, 50 years ago, none of them were [indiscernible]. There is the need for the energy and do we have an industry close to the remote possibility for energy for hydropower plants. Today, we see with green hydrogen, that, that can be a solution to [indiscernible] in hydrogen out of the renewable solutions in the [indiscernible] in discussion. There is a huge potential on that. And if you just see that for 1 tonne steel production decarbonize the production. I'm not discussing [indiscernible]. I'm not discussing [indiscernible]. We need 500-megawatt installed capacity, running [ 6,000 hours ] a year. So just to [indiscernible], there is a R&D project early in the [indiscernible] to decarbonize just 6-tonne [indiscernible] steel plant, it would need around [ 1.5x ] the capacity we produce on electricity within the -- within the Austrian [indiscernible]. So there is huge potential [indiscernible] the beginning of discovery. Therefore, [indiscernible] that has potential for further growth in hydropower. That ends my presentation.

Okay. Thank you very much. Now we open for any questions, formal question. Simon, again, please go ahead.

So I'd be interested to know who you regard as your stiffest competition. And when do you typically beat them? And when do you typically lose to them? What sort of attributes to deal the less strong one?

Yes, that depends on the -- there is, of course, more players where we have [indiscernible] in the one other project, a better solution in terms of being tailor-made and maybe they have or we have a higher peak efficiency or you do have a data. But overall, they are -- I guess, this is why we also said being the preferred partners very early in this development of this power plant to create a certain [indiscernible]. I think we are doing good in this proximity with the clients. So we are perceived to have, I would say, at the same level like our main competitors, and we can name them, it's GE. It's for it on a cohort basis. And we have to see the single portion. So of course, there is certain strings we do have. And then, if you look on our references, so this is very much important for the clients as well. Our equipment's class leadership 15 years plus, so [indiscernible]. If we go to work on a very regional basis to the lower end in terms of output of our machine types, and of course, there is some local players, we are maybe -- just the CapEx is the most driving force. We also think technology is very important a certain time, we need that reference. But I guess, on a reasonable [indiscernible], it's really a single project, which is decisive. As far as service is concerned, there you see we are very much local in many of the main regions. And here, [indiscernible] as we see was occupied [indiscernible] our development in operational maintenance [indiscernible].

There are no -- Teresa, please go ahead with your question.

So in about the same time, we have heard the benefits of hydro generation for the entry transition, for seasonal storage. The cost of the alternative renewables have fallen by, yes, almost 80%. And the developers are willing to sell these projects that 2% return on equity if they get a PPA from Amazon or the like. And we see record electricity prices, at least, in Europe. But what do you think what could make hydro attractive enough to divert some of the billions that are already scheduled to be invested in renewables energies. Would it be PPAs? Would it be a return to a regulated, yes, return system. What's your view on that?

Really the -- you see the cost of energy, I don't see like competitive price. Of course, it has large installations, more competitive than if they are -- the plant sizes are smaller. And this, I guess, is, of course, and we see in some markets already, small hydro can't compete, if there is a good win side, if there is a quite reasonable solar focus in a certain area. So this will definitely [indiscernible] with market segment. But if -- on the other hand, I guess, from today's point of view, short to midterm, there is no substitution for pumped storage as kind of -- as I mentioned before, is green battery on an industrial scale. In order just to balance the energy since it's always -- on the one hand, if you see installed capacities in certain areas in wind, in solar, overwhelming, they have nice growth rates. However, if you see an average run time of $2,000 to $3,000 is only half of what our hydropower and what our [indiscernible]. The figures itself are more -- so much decisive. It's the mix. So we are -- we don't see that we are competing with these renewables development. So we are part of -- and we continue being an important part in the mix in order to stabilize the grid, in order really to have the possibility to convert from coal and fuel-based industry [indiscernible] reduction towards carbon-free production. So therefore, it's not the one or the other, it's the combination what makes sense. And this is what all [indiscernible] just confirmed.

But what would really -- sorry, but what would really incentivize the investments because even for grid stabilization, coal-fired power plants are earning -- are paid by transmission system operators. Yes.

Yes, if you apply ancillary services [indiscernible] pay for, and of course, you [indiscernible], it becomes highly competitive again, if you just operate advance partner on the spread of deep energy versus base energy, you will not invest anymore. So this is a clear scenario. And therefore, the last 2 years, there was a certain installment -- in this sense, there was no regulation on that. So I don't believe that it's a regulated market, but it will come that grid operators, they are independent from the producer need to invest in a certain way to stabilize the grid and to be able to deliver at the time when they have to deliver. And this is, again, plays hydro in the card in the storage capacity. So we are able to provide fast frequency response, which can't be with wind, neither with solar, batteries to a very limited extent. So all this goes for hydro. Again, a lot of the development are seeing an integrated part.

Yes, maybe to conclude, I mean, clearly, hydropower, in our opinion, has a future. This has a future independently from whether the governments will have to release loss regulations to save CO2 or not. As in the past, hydropower is a low-cost producer of green energy and therefore it has the future on its own. I mean we all know that the climate discussion today -- as of today -- the CO2 discussion, as of today, is to a large extent, with service. I mean CO2 is nowhere declining. And if we believe that to a certain extent that the governments will become serious, I mean, there will be such a shortage of green electricity that I think everybody will embrace every possible technology to create this capacity even without taking into account this transportation issue with regard to hydrogen or in the steel industry, whatever. And that the calculation that Joachim gave you, what it means to convert one steel mill with hydrogen, basically says we are -- our discussion today is relatively independent from the factum situation. I mean, for sure, the energy consumption will continue to grow. I mean we have added 5 billion people to the rural population within the last 70 years. And up from 3 billion to 8 billion. And our forecast say that we'll continue to grow, whether it's going to be 10 billion or 11 billion in 20, 30 years, nobody knows, but I think the most conservative forecast say 10 billion is a minimum. And they will -- and 10 billion, there may be some people saving some energy by driving or running a bicycle in Europe but the vast majority, the [ 8 ] billion today, at least 7 billion, this 8 billion have other interests, have other goals to live a better life. And we make a big mistake if we think that Europe is representative for that. And suddenly, the world will start saving CO2. So I think we see very little downside coming back to very realistic assessment. We see very little insight on the current business volume that hydro has. It's not guarantee that it is not a year and lower maybe, but very little downside and all the factors that are set to become more important in the future would be in favor of green electricity. And there is no reason why hydro should not play an important role in this green electricity capacity expansion because it's cost competitive. There's no question that hydro is as the same low cost as wind or solar. And it's more stable and it's completely green. So I think we feel comfortable with this basic outlook. Does that translate into 300 million of order intake next year? No, certainly not. But medium term, long term, we are not concerned about the future of hydro. We need to make sure that our cost base is correct for the volume that we achieve, depending on the market, depending on our market share. If we do that and continue to do that and continue to refine it, I'm not concerned about sustainability of our hydro power business.

Okay. Many thanks. As there are no further questions, I think we'll move on then to the automation part.

Do I keep going? Yes, automation, looking at ANDRITZ Group, it's more and more important, of course, we heard from all the business areas that they had, to a certain extent, the services on Metris development, which is the [indiscernible] automation of ANDRITZ. So you see that, automation is well positioned all over the world. So there is quite a community on automation guys, 1,800 plus in the hydro field, and we are in all our business areas represent. The revenues is EUR 650 million around. It's 10% of the ANDRITZ's revenues, and there is a strong desire to grow, to grow over proportionally. So we believe that automation will play a more important part as it has been today. So what makes us different to the big players? So we are well aware that there are sharks out in this environment, and they promise automation is all and they can do everything. So they can deal with Big Data and can provide you all the automation you need and why not believing that. So we do think that we have, on the one hand, the technology competence in the processes and in the business areas where we are in. So this is a huge advantage. We understand what our needs and goals. We understand how to integrate whatever we get and collect on data [indiscernible]. That's why we have a very strong angle in this respect which is not true. If you hear this from the big automation [indiscernible] outpace regulators. Now we have experience in running the show in the large projects. We have EPC competence paired with our automation. So we feel confident on the sites. We know how to integrate in the installation process. We know how to integrate in the commissioning process. We can deal once it comes to service area with all different kinds of hardware. We are hardware independent. We are discussing software solutions, which also leads us to the big automation companies where they do have their own hardware to a certain advantage. And all this leads various entities' life cycle services, where we elaborated on in the various business areas, Joachim and Humbert were coming with examples in the pulp and paper area. But of course, even the more product-oriented business like in separation, we have a lot of things to provide to the client to optimize the use of equipment in hydro before I told our O&M flagship. The industry we are serving is challenged by many, many different DCS systems, different hardware systems. They are going and striving towards fully automated production. We have all the threats out of cybersecurity. We need to -- or they need to and we need to go towards more production flexibility. And all this is prepared in our Metris platform. So we are not perfect now. We haven't developed everything, but we have a clear vision and mission what we need to accomplish. Coming to the fields where we play in is the one that I mentioned before, so we do see a lot of common development and a lot of synergies within the ANDRITZ Group even though the businesses aren't very much different. However, we are developing DCS -- a common DCS. We have the same ideas on asset performance, maintenance management. So we have process optimization. So basically understanding this as we have a common platform and then come to the particular specialties of the various industries, and I will come later on with some examples. If we go to the next slide. Also here, we see if the operator continues to move. Okay, thank you. If we come to the next slide, we see that there is different stages how we define automation. So there is the classic automation, where we have -- where we do have our distributed control systems, where we have our motors and drives automated integrated in systems. So what is very much common and what have been -- we have been doing since decades. If we go a little bit further, we have this asset performance and maintenance management. We have then process optimization. So here, it plays into our cards that we know the industry. We know the product. We know the demands of our clients. And therefore, we can run this in a better way than many of our competitors. And of course, we stride now for more advanced performance services. It's really the optimization of the production. It's really having performance monitoring, having cybersecurity services and managing. So this is our 3 layers we have to develop a lot on. Coming to one specific angle out of this is this risk-based management. So we are hosting all the data now independent, where we collect them independent, where are the suppliers of the -- in a single device or part of the [indiscernible], we are hosting all this information into one database. We have the capability to link this information. We have the capability to assess out of this complete database. Meaning of this data, whether it's an asset problem, whether it's a process problem, whether we combine those. And we can then derive out of this the strategies. Strategies, again, serving the customer in a way that we get optimized maintenance strategies, that we can optimized production strategies. And here, we can see that we have really a very, very powerful management system. And we are well advanced, and we have [indiscernible] but gradually open paper plants to a high successful optimized plants. Cybersecurity, I guess, we have seen by Joachim [indiscernible] pulp and paper. This is very much true for the automation business as such. But just to demonstrate also, there is a type test of [indiscernible] in terms of cybersecurity. So we have really expert models in order to assess whether we are [indiscernible]. We have automated checks for each and every 100 delivery out to the field. So there is no delivery, no check on cybersecurity compatibility. And we had, of course, for service -- the after sales service. So we do have quite extensive programs as to have spOT tests, where we see plant still is secured. And we also deliver a service where we have 24 hours, 7 days [indiscernible] of the plant in terms of cybersecurity. Coming to the examples, one for energy utilities. So we see here what is technology development today for hydropower [indiscernible] where we serve hydropower plant to the pipeline to the full extent in terms of protection, excitation control and synchronization. We have then a layer above to complete the controller on applications with our color system. Same in a little bit different way we provide in the process industry, if we come to the next slide, where we had also a modular approach. There is many services and many apps you can choose on. And what fits to your needs, what fits to your application, you get. So we are not providing only one system. So we are providing a system, a base system with many, many features, and you can choose also the level of support. So either you think you can [indiscernible] with this solution as efficient, you need an expert on the phone or you need an expert at site, whatever you choose. We have our models for that, and so the client will be served in the best possible way. What I mentioned before, what does this mean to the pulp and paper industry, for example. So we have been with the Suzano Group since 2007 and maintaining and optimizing their pulp and paper mills over many, many years. And we started with assessment. We started with first optimization of parts of the plant. And today, we can broadly to say the figure that the client has benefited over EUR 200 million with our services. So this is really a success story. And it's not only seen by this one group. So we have other installations as well, and this was presented by Humbert all over the world. We are [indiscernible] services. From the energy utilities, you see an example in terms of operation and maintenance. example in terms of operation and maintenance. So we have got the contract from [indiscernible] where we monitor 44 power plants over the next 3 years. It's around 9 -- almost 10,000 megawatt installation in 5 countries in Latin America. All this will be done out off location in Italy in Schio and the task is to assess to other conclusions and to come from preventive to predictive maintenance, which has then hopefully a significant cost reduction. And we are well underway, and we have an excellent feedback from our client from day 1 we have had the low-hanging fruits collected. Now we are going to optimize the stages. So again -- and this will hopefully then be a long-term agreement, long-term engagement [indiscernible]. Another good example how we operate or how we help to operate the remote space [ or unmanned ] space almost all of them are [indiscernible] 125 power plants we have provided to Uniper, our SCADA system for operating their control room. And this is also a role model for the rest of the [ hundreds ] who -- what we have been achieving since years now in HYDRO power and [indiscernible] other business areas to certain extent as well. So what is our road map for the near future? So we do think that we have a good position in our traditional industry. So we will go more and more with the matrix platform to support new installations to come to faster commissioning cycles as we have the digital twin already installed. We train our commissioning engineers, we train the engineers from the client in order to speed up the production in a new paper mill, for example, a pulp mill, for example. And drive further our [indiscernible] to provide more and more sophisticated tools to the client to have best strategies to maintain and to optimize existing equipment. That's my automation conclusion.

Many thanks. Now the floor is opened for the questions.

[Operator Instructions] Yes, go ahead, Andreas.

In terms of monetizing the customer benefits, we discussed that a few years ago in terms of the paybacks are very, very attractive for some of your customers. Do you see a trend that maybe you can gain a higher share of that value for yourself in terms of the awareness of customers of the benefits and the willingness for them to accelerate some of these developments and for you to share in the upside of it?

There are some bonus [indiscernible] where the [indiscernible] is limited, but [indiscernible] system if we really achieve what we promise, we get a fair share on that. We do think it could be a little bit more, but we get it. And for sure, in the long run it's always a door opener, an enabler. You're sitting in this power plant, you get all the data you have access to, and you know better than any of your competitor, what's going on, what is the maintenance strategy. So in terms of services, long-term services and we have a we have excellent excess spend.

And in terms of the DCS system technology, is that -- what is yours and what is standard components, the base system you would buy in from one of the major players? Kind of, where does your offering start in that sense?

Our offering starts that we apply our software solutions on various hardware. So we are not a hardware supplier. So that makes us independent and makes us also [indiscernible] very much interesting since we have the capability with our systems to apply them on different targets, which brings us then to the next level that we have old software basically in one combined system where we can process the startup and also this system. So we are not becoming a hardware supplier in electronics.

Now we have Simon, again. Simon?

Yes. I have a question regarding the profitability of automation, Valmet seems to make margins of between 10% to 12%. On an EBIT level, I guess it's quite a similar offering. You are in the same neighborhood in term of the automation business?

We try not to dilute ANDRITZ profitability. It's very different, of course, whether you be in the service business, where you just offering automation is dominating, then you usually have excellent profitability. Once it goes along with the capital equipment, then there is always a discussion what is the value of your equipment in automation. It goes volume buys itself, of course, a very little part of EUR 1 billion pulp-mill. So therefore, we are not diluting the ANDRITZ results. Let's say in that way.

Sounds good. And if I may, I have a follow-up question on hydropower. What do you think about -- when we think about climate change, obviously, we have more heavy rain, extreme rain events. And I read recently an example about one of the Greece Islands which is using hydro reservoirs exactly for such events, right, where you have a lot of rain in a very short period of time, and that's increasing. Do you see any structural demand development also as pushing that for your hydropower business?

There is a lot of danger, of course, for flood regulation, for irrigation purposes and what we do see that more and more of these things are now being used for electricity generation as well. It becomes feasible. If it is especially in remote areas. And so here, we have a little civil structure. And therefore, there is a certain trend now to harvest on that as well, especially in Asia. In the past, we were very much focused on the bigger the better. And now we see also this trend also here to a certain extent, it's then paired with solar power or wind power and you have then in the regional -- very regional level an electricity island and which is then balanced by hydropower again. So this is a certain trend. I want to say it's now changing the picture completely, but it's one of -- one stone more in the path.

As there are no further questions, we'll then move on to Norbert speaking to you on the financials of the group. Norbert, please start your presentation.

Yes. Thank you very much for the introduction. I'll start my presentation by myself, and it's easier to switch the slides to point on. Yes, it's my task now to explain what all this growth and profitability increase initiatives, which you have heard from the colleagues will have on our overall group's financial KPIs, which means what impact will it have on net income and equity on cash and liability, which is finally then the basis for our ability to pay out sufficient and satisfying dividends [ in conclusion ]. Let me start with 2 pictures, which you have seen already. First is the growth picture. Long-term performance of 4.3%. Performance in the last years up to 5%. And as [indiscernible] said already in his introduction, we remain with our group target of 5% to 8% growth and half of it's organic. Half of it acquisition, which is a rough numbers simply to tell you that we need some optimization to maintain this numbers in the level of 6% to 8%. And this is not plannable. We see what we can do when we have a good chance, we will take it and we don't have a chance, we will not buy simply for buying reasons. So we do it very carefully. So the growth fund will be determined by organic plus what we can get out of the market as acquisition targets, but 5% to 8% is certainly something which we think is possible for the next years. And then you have seen also already the profitability targets from the colleagues for the individual business areas. I don't need to repeat it. So want to point out that in [ data we are ] already there. There was a question, why not more? When you have reached to certain profitability level from [indiscernible] you have to concentrate more on growth than on further improving the balance of profitability by [indiscernible]. And any growth in the future in this period will also cut some money. So target is clearly, stay in this level and grow the business further on, which will have a much higher labor as another half of 7-point profitability. In Separations, we are also already there. Here also same, [ incumbent ] growth story for the future. I don't need it there. They have to work a little bit more on profitability, but also then shift the growth. And in metals, we have to make our homework -- complete the homework to reach 6% and Domenico explained clearly that this is very soon able to reach. So then comes the question, what does it mean for the group in total? And as the controller does here, I did it here, I did some arithmetics, simply added for, let's say, a reasonable level of EUR 7.5 billion. which we plan to achieve in the next planning cycle for the next 3 years. With the upper and lower profitability levels, I did the calculations for the group simply to show you that there is, with regard to volume and with regard to profitability, also some room for risk, which is never avoidable in this kind of business where we are in. So we are pretty confident that also when one division might have a special risk and the performance is not at that range that we will make the group targets of 8% at a minimum. And as we have announced some weeks ago, the 8% also for this year already what we expect to achieve. So -- and then based on this operational performance, the question comes, what does that mean for net income, which is the final [ truth ] and at the end, determine the dividend payments. I mentioned it between the sentence. We have to close the gap. Exactly, this is what we are trying to do. We want to make out of this 8% an at least higher than 5% net income, but not only looking to percentages, you should also look to the absolute impact of this. So the net income level, which we intend to see in the future is certainly something sustainably significantly over the [ EUR 300 million ], so that we then are able to pay these dividends, which we did also in the past. Major drivers for this is very clearly the profitability out of the operation business. But we can also work on the things in the P&L, which are below operational business. Currently -- so -- and then these levers are amortization, financial result and tax level. With regard to the amortization, we are currently at level of 60, which goes down to a level of 30 on 2023, simply based on the fact that these amortization for [indiscernible] are come to their end. I have, in my basic calculation, something in which leaves enough room for new 3 intangibles out of new acquisitions. So coming from the 60 out of the 30, 20 level in our current base, plus whatever we have from new acquisitions should keep us in the level below 1% for amortization, EUR 50 million something I consider as a reasonable value for the future years. Then we are at 7.3% EBIT and with the financial result of somewhere between EUR 35 million -- around EUR 30 million and the tax level of 27% or below, it's unavoidable to achieve the 5% in the future. The details you will find on the next slide is a detail on financial results. You see that in the last 3 years, we had some burden out of financing to carry out of the interest situation. We are constantly working to get it further down to reduce our cost of carry. For example, you might have heard already that we have paid back EUR 120 million loans in August, so that our interest level will decrease in the future. And [ we will also get ] other instruments and the whole financing structure on the tools which we use in the future on the financial instruments to come to a more flexible financing structure, which then also in periods where we have higher liquidity allows us to show -- to use lower external money and to show lower interest. On the tax side, you have heard about activities with regard to the integration of the Schuler Group squeeze-out, which allows us to integrate the Schuler Group fully also into the German tax structure, which means more or less to generate tax units, which are large and which have internally an offset of gains and losses so that we not have any more loss-making tax units in the future and that we can use losses carried forward out of the past, which then would hopefully bring us to a sustainable tax rate below 27%, maybe down in the future also maybe lower. But this depends on the profitability of the units in certain areas and our ability to compensate or to use this losses carried forward, as I said already. So 27% is the target for tax quota for the future. So -- and this then should bring us to expand this year to this higher than 5% net income for the future. That's one side, net income. The other side is cash because dividend is paid out of cash and not out of percentage profitability. Other big area of our work at the moment is improvement of the cash flow. So -- and we have given us the target of at least 85% cash conversion based on net income, which would lead to a free cash flow above EUR 300 million, coming from [ EUR 252 million ] in the last years. How do we want to achieve it? Very simply, we want to, let's say, limit our spending from net working capital simply to the cost portion. There, also the investment part will be oriented to our current depreciation plus everything what's necessary to grow. The logic behind, I think you all are well aware about in the midterm, long term, everything which you see in the P&L [indiscernible] cash flow or interest in the P&L will end up in interest in cash flow statement, same for taxes and provisions in the long run and other value changes should level out to 0. So at the very end, should bring your net income into cash. But you have to invest a part of the cash for growth. We simply set EUR 40 million increase in net working capital for growth initiatives [indiscernible] areas, product business and service business, where we [indiscernible] down payments and where we carry 20% of working capital. And if we grow this business by 5%, this would need EUR 40 million net working capital. Capital business growth target simply to do with cash -- net working capital neutral because this business is mostly funded out of the down payments. Investments, gross investments, EUR 50 million. We carry an investment base of EUR 1.2 billion at the moment. If you grow it a little bit under proportionately to the course of the business, this would mean also EUR 50 million gross investments. [indiscernible] altogether then [indiscernible] that the cash conversion is a little bit below net income, but simply driven by future growth. And there is no harvest without seed. So we consider this as a reasonable way to approach our business. So here are the backups for net working capital and CapEx, nothing really interesting to mention. It's all back up information so that you can see that we are doing our target setting on a well-based figures basis. So -- and everything together would then support our financial position and our liquidity position, we had EUR 1.6 billion at the end of June, now reduced it by EUR 120 million due to these repayments of loan, considered further increase or, let's say, consider further positive impact out of the second half year of the business, which is usually much stronger with regard to liquidity situation because dividend is paid in the first half year. So a number somewhere in the direction of EUR 570 million is what we want to see by end of the year. And in the long run, we intend after dividend and before major acquisitions to increase our [indiscernible] is per year, and this should give us enough room for maneuvering in the situations we can -- where we see some acquisition opportunities. So high flexibility to act quickly as soon as we see opportunities in the market, which we can get and would fit our business. And yes, that's about the financials and the cash situation. And then the last 2 slides, equity portion, due to the, more or less, the Schuler and Metals situation. The last year's equity went a little bit down. But now we are strengthening it again by, let's say, having -- let's say, good net income, also a little bit up here driven from in the OCI from currency and interest. So EUR 18.6 million we achieved in -- by end of June. And adding the second half of '21, certainly would give us the opportunity to achieve something about 20% of by end of the year. And yes, this then, both together, liquidity and sufficient equity is the basis to ensure also for the future, the payout ratio of 50% to 60% of our net income and to deliver to the capital market, what you expect from a company like ANDRITZ. Yes, that's it about ANDRITZ overall financial performance to be expected in the near future. If you have any questions, I would be happy to answer.

Norbert, thanks. Q&A session is now open for any questions [ on over ] the financials.

Well, any other question, I'd like to -- we have Simon again. Simon?

So just a quick one. You haven't really mentioned return on capital as a, sort of, medium-term target. I just wondered what you had in mind for that.

To be honest, we want to stay with the targets we have announced at the moment and don't want to create another return on capital employed targets because return on capital employed from my point of view is an incentive for cherry picking. And our business has a highly fluctuating capital employed basis simply due to the highly fluctuating working capital based on the huge down payments which we have. I will take this as a point and we will report on this in the next quarterly information.

One of the different reason that we are not using it is that the net working capital number plus the fixed assets is relatively low. So you can assume it's very nicely into the double-digit percentage typically. We can deliver the numbers that is up to normal probably, but therefore, it is [indiscernible] a lot. But every year, it typically would have been, I would say, more than 20 [ for us ]. So no reason for concern, but not sufficiently challenging KPI for us. Any other question, or to the Executive Board members as we now -- are now in the final presentation now and basically we then have the closing remarks [indiscernible]. I am disappointed [indiscernible].

Always usual suspect asking the questions. So sorry for that. Just regarding your M&A hurdle rates. I mean, you now presented the divisional targets, the group targets. When you look at targets, mean do they have to immediately achieve those goals? Or do you give them how many years typically to achieve these targets?

If the question goes to me. We are, let's say, looking to the targets from a perspective that they shouldn't dilute in the short term our profitability. So we certainly are not intending to buy, let's say, turnaround cases, which will jeopardize our business [indiscernible]. And so we expect then immediate -- not immediately, but at least in a very short time that they contribute to our group's performance. Any other questions?

I would like to state that some of the challenges Norbert [indiscernible] is strong statement that we cannot avoid reaching the 5% net income. We will. So you should get concerned if the CFO of the company gets bullish. But I want to remind you that Norbert said, if many things are coming into reality or functional plan, then it would be an unavoidable stock. Please don't feel that we are too optimistic.

We have a question from [indiscernible].

I had a quick question. We are very long-term investors. I'm thinking over the next 1 or 2 business cycles, and I'm thinking about pulp. Now pulp is, of course, at a much, much, much higher level than it has ever been. How do we think about it over the next couple of business cycles? I understand one structural driver has been more packaging because of e-commerce. Other than that, I understand the South America story, which has helped you over the last maybe 10-plus years. So I'm struggling to figure out what is a sustainable order book for pulp because it's tough to assume it will be EUR 3.5 billion. It's also tough to assume it will be EUR 1.5 billion that you had 10 years back. So -- and I'm not looking for any exact guidance or anything else, but I'm trying to figure out if the -- why would the world need structurally double for the next many, many years? Or is it a passing phase in the order book and the order intake can slowly normalize to a more EUR 1.5 billion, EUR 2 billion level after maybe 3 to 5 years? How should I think about it?

I believe that the growth is definitely driven by the market, but it's also driven by additional offerings we have. I also presented to you products, which we are developing, and we believe they will grow in the future, textile or this bio-refinery, the CircleToZero. So we believe that even with a moderately strong market, there is a -- for hundreds of growth potential. So that would be on the long run. We would say that a lot of offerings that will be relevant in the next business cycle is available, and we will benefit from that.

That is very useful. As far as the growth is concerned, I get that. I am more struggling as to what is the base of that growth. If I look at your order book and order intake in pulp for the last 15 years, I see a significant jump. One jump I understand, you have textile business. And the last 3 years, the big 3 projects over the last couple of years, I understand all that. But if I look at order intake, it is significantly higher than last few years. So there are 2 ways I can think about it, use this very high base and then grow it or normalize the base and then grow it. I understand your growth projects and your new services, your textiles and everything else. So that's what I'm struggling against because if I grow your current order intake rate of order book of EUR 3.5 billion, EUR 3.6 billion, that's 1 map. Another one is using more normal of EUR 2 billion, EUR 2.5 billion. So that's where I'm struggling because I understand it's lumpy. It comes in big, big projects. So what is a steady state scenario?

Recommendation is clearly normalize and don't start with the peak and extrapolate the growth rate from there. I think we have seen volatility depending on whether we get 1, 2 or 3 large projects a year. I think we have shown that there has been a certain transformation over the last several years by adding several other uses other than taking the pulp into paper and board. That will continue in our opinion. So that should add a certain percentage to the market size. Viscose is -- has added a lot over the last 2 years. That has been, as Wolfgang has pointed out, I think it's 50% of the global capacity that theoretically...

Recycle bin.

What?

[indiscernible] recycles recovered paper.

[indiscernible] capacity is 15%. Yes. And that -- it happened to lift the 2 lines that we are currently starting up if they would produce exclusively Viscose pulp, which is not a plan. So also that we think will continue. But still, I would recommend to normalize in a reasonable way, but I'm not going to be more specific on that and add the growth that we've indicated on top of that.

Yes. No, that's very useful. Do I have time for another question or?

Yes, sure. Yes, sure. Go ahead, [indiscernible]

Yes, sure. So moving on to metals. And if you already covered this, I can always get in touch with Michael later on. But as the transition goes on from ICE to EV, is there net-net, anything we should be worried about in your metals division or the stamping and everything you do and the materials and everything else that's used for EVs, you are pretty much indifferent?

I would say we are not specifically [ wide ] over there because our deliveries into internal combustion technology is very small, while the parts of electric vehicle other parts produced from our products are in the electric vehicle as well as they are in an internal combustion vehicle. And I think that's all these metal sheet forming parts and there is the change in the design of the cars because the cars need to be designed differently, whether they have these big battery packs or not. Definitely -- our technology definitely gives us a good leverage.

And ballpark, what percentage of your metal business comes from Asian OEMs, ballpark? Do you have anything there? Or most of the OEMs are western world OEMs that you have?

From engine OEMs.

Not engine. I mean car OEMs like you stamp the body parts [indiscernible] OEMs like very big Chinese, the Japanese. If I look at your customers in your metals business, ballpark, what percentage would be coming from Asian OEMs, excluding Japan?

[indiscernible]

Yes, it's a quite good question. I mean if we exclude the Japanese ones, the [ transplant ], I would say in the future, we can expect between 30% and 50%, so it's quite sustainable. But let's be careful because we are talking about -- even about the European [ transplant ]. So they are going to invest in Asia as well. So...

I'm sorry to interrupt you. I mean, I'm going from the nationality of the OEM, not where they are putting their [ plants ]. So if I look at the U.S. OEMs, when I mean U.S. OEMs, I mean U.S. domiciled, not where they have the factory. So if I look at that and if I look at the Japanese OEMs, the Chinese and the other Asians and Europe and U.S. and ask you the question, give me ballpark ideas, how much is Asia or China?

Okay. How much is -- overall, for us, I would estimate somehow between 15% and 25% market of the Chinese OEMs. We have view of them as our customer already. We have some emerging brands where we are delivering already where we already have an installed base and we see a handful coming up existing Chinese as purely Chinese OEMs. During the day, there was raised a question about consolidation. I do believe that, especially in Asia, especially in China, there will be a consolidation of a few smaller OEMs.

And so if I think about metals and if I think about the future, you have done most of the heavy lifting, whatever you could do very little heavy work left. Now we are waiting for the top line to help you to go to your target margins. And the way I'm thinking about it, you get there is, of course, global car production normalizes back to the 90-plus million units. And after that, how much of market share growth are you assuming in order for you to reach your targets? Or you're saying, no, we'll have the same market share? The world goes back to 90 million plus production per year and will make our margins.

No, we definitely have to win some market share. I am convinced about this one. And I'm convinced that we are in the situation to win some market share because we cannot just rely on the growth in selling costs. I mean, this would be definitely the wrong strategy. And therefore, we are creating products for new markets. And during the day, I even mentioned that there is a new requirement on the market. So the demand in China, for example, press line it's a completely different ones to what we have in Europe, and we are able with our sector to deliver exactly this specification. With that, we expect even an increase of market share.

So would it be a fair generalization that in order to reach your target margins in metals, the market share story will be the dominant one and not the industry going back to normal 90 million plus?

No, it is a mix because we have to be careful because metals, whether this metals forming, in [ Schuler ] or metals processing, we have a list of different products.

Yes.

Now we will talk about Schuler.

Okay. If we are talking about Schuler, it will be a key to sustainably grow. That's the point. I mean, it is too risky to just go with the market [ table ]. That's -- this would be definitively the wrong approach, that's what I said today. If there is more volume coming, of course, we take it, but we want to increase our market shares with generating new products, even existing commodity products, but which were not [ relatable ] in the past for certain markets, especially in China. And therefore, so many times called local focus strategy, the product strategy, even China as well. And with that, we will increase the market share.

I'll just ask my last question and step aside. So on -- so metals, wanting to target margin is primarily will be driven by Schuler not -- right? So it's the auto business, which is going to get you to the targets, not the aluminum and steel. Aluminum and steel is doing well and will do whatever. The main driver of going back to target margins would be the auto piece. Am I understanding it right or not?

[indiscernible].

Maybe [indiscernible] I think the targets that are laid out cannot be reached if only Schuler will make these targets. That is clear. So both areas need to improve. And I think the plan is there. And also for the metals processing, we do not expect the growth in the market. We need to grow in the markets that we have and mainly through innovation because that is the differentiation that we have. And with all the disruption in the industry, I think there is a good chance that we can grab some growth through that.

I'm sorry, you said acquisitions in processing?

No. I said we need to grow through innovations.

Innovation, sorry. Okay. I'll step -- yes, go ahead.

Maybe I can add one thing. I mean, we have to be careful if you look at the figures of metals because they're heavily impacted [indiscernible] nonoperating items included there. So the restructuring, specially made in Germany, over the last 2 years was a substantial part of this launch system. So it's not that we are coming from an operational level from a huge minus level to 6% we are targeting. I do believe that by being organized as today on a lower cost structure, already a little bit of volume makes margin that makes profitability and I agree, [indiscernible] that we have to improve in both areas by growth, by innovation and by tough cost management, which I think is one of the benefits we all had out of the pandemic crisis that we know how to manage our costs.

We have a further question from Andreas Willi. Andreas?

A question for Wolfgang Semper on hydro, on the plan to get that to a EUR 1.5 billion business again. Obviously, given the long cycle of that in terms of orders to revenues, you would need to have pretty good visibility on order intake for the near term to be able to get to EUR 1.5 billion within a reasonable time frame on sales. So if you compare the pipeline you have today compared to the one you would have had 3 or 5 years ago, is that what gives you the confidence that we can get to the EUR 1.5 billion? Because obviously, if you look at the last few quarters, the last year or so, the order intake was more running at EUR 1.3 billion, EUR 1.35 billion.

Yes, that's exactly the issue. The pipeline is good. But what we experience today is that there's certain postponements still ongoing in larger projects. What we've seen on the short term, there is opportunities out for service and rehabilitation, which usually turns faster to sales as well. So we will not deliver this year, of course, these revenues and maybe even not -- quite sure not even next year since if it is a capital business, then it takes at least 1 year that we convert order intake into significant sales. But the pipeline is promising. The projects are well advanced. We also see all the governmental-related environmental impact studies, social impact studies for some of the projects are done and fulfilled. So that's why we are rather confident that it goes in that direction. But of course, it's single project event, which leads us again to this 1,500. The base business, of course, we are confident that we keep the level, but we need the one other large order. And this is [indiscernible]. But we are, I would say, cautiously optimistic.

We have now Daniel Lion. Daniel?

One question to Norbert Nettesheim. On your breakdown, your book map planning. When I look at the -- your assumed volumes for the metals, you assumed EUR 1.5 billion. Earlier on, we had the breakdown in metals forming and then processing, adding up to EUR 2 billion. What's the reason why you remain at EUR 1.5 billion here? And the second one, this EUR 1 billion in separation seems to be rather -- or have a rather good visibility as you have it in both scenarios. Should we expect this acquisition to come rather sooner or later? Yes.

When you look into my slides, there is at the lower right asterisk, it says based on exemplary rounded revenues. When you do this kind of calculations, you have always to judge a little bit what should you show here. And with -- in metals, we are currently certainly in the area where we say, have a way to go. That's the reason why I simply have here in this area, let's say, allocated the total risk, which we see simply to get this number not too high to give you a realistic picture. So -- but you can also put this reserve somewhere else. It only should give you an impression that the 8% to 9% is possible to reach and you can reach this with various options and various portfolios. And it is a little bit more or less, kind of, an exemplary number, which I indicated here. The big message behind this number. Yes, they have the target to reach EUR 700 million in metals processing and the EUR 1.2 billion in metals forming. We are confident that these are realistic targets and simply allocated here, the [indiscernible] EUR 400 million figure to the total. With regard to separation, clear. I think it came out in our presentation that this is the area where we certainly, let's say, have to close the biggest gap to the target revenue level. And as soon as we can get something here, we certainly will consider very seriously. But there is no topic which is currently in the pipeline and which will materialize quickly. Does that answer your questions?

Yes. Yes. It does. Just to follow up the amortization. The PPA that you assumed in calculating the net margin, but somehow hinted an acquisition at the size of Xerium right? In order to come there?

That's the reason why I said when these things come like I showed them here, then it is unavoidable arithmetically to get 5%. This is exactly what I wanted to say. We have room for another acquisition, the size of Xerium in my calculation, yes. So the amortization would stay in the range of EUR 50 million in the next years also when we do such a big acquisition. So there's room for this, but it simply should show you that we have this room. It's not saying that we do it or that we have a clear target at the moment on the desk.

Okay. And last one from my side. How do you currently reflect on share buybacks? Is this something that you consider in the current environment?

Say it again, please, I didn't hear you.

Buyback shares.

So currently, we have about 4 million shares I think which obviously is also a certain drain on the equity. I mean the easiest and fastest way to increase our equity is to sell 1 million or 2 million of the shares we have. Obviously, we need to retain a certain level to be covered with regard to the auction plans that are still running. But taking into account that we have a sizable number of shares in our stock. Plus, we have clearly a will to increase our equity and also our tangible equity. I would say, unless there is a dramatic development, we would not plan to further increase our shareholdings or keeping the holdings [ of our own share ].

As there are no further question, I would like to handover to Wolfgang again for his closing remarks.

Okay. Well, thank you for whoever made it through the whole day. Thank you very much for your patience and willingness to follow us. We've tried to be as transparent as you can -- as we can be. You may have noticed -- seen a certain let's say, a little bit more optimism with regard to growth. Why is that? First one, yes, there is a certain limited of additional growth -- of hope for growth. Why is that the case? Number 1, we do not see any imminent big threat on our businesses other than another big global crash that probably inevitably will come at some point of time, nobody knows when. But even if that would come, I think we have shown last year that our business model is quite resilient even in times of a shock of a crash. But obviously, that -- in such a case, we would not be unaffected. I would not want to say that. But again, I would not be very concerned about that. Why are we more optimistic? I think we have in all our business areas, we have good market shares. In many cases, our assessment has been good at -- that we have been able to increase moderately our market share. We do not plan to do everything, including price cutting to increase further substantially. But obviously, we are following it and ideally we can gain in small steps and our market share without disrupting the market, but just by gaining it from, let's say, smaller, less visible participants in the market. We have, I think, a good pipeline of innovation projects of new products, improved products, again, we gave you some details. Some details may be too detailed, but at least hopefully I have the feeling that we understand what we need to achieve and [indiscernible] what we want to achieve. And on top of that, we have certain early, I would say, early ideas. What we could do, which we would -- we have decided not to release and reveal here. I think we should be -- we think we should be further along and closer to the market already in the market rather than communicating this, let's say, very early ideas, but you can be sure that we have that. And many of them either go on to the service side, the aftermarket side and a substantial part of our capital expenditure goes into this aftermarket side because the return for this investment is much better. It will also most likely see if we make acquisitions, many of them will be in the aftermarket for the same reason. And we will -- I think in everything we do and we plan everything, but a lot of that has a relationship or is grounded in this green deal in increasing focus of governments, of companies, on sustainability, renewability, renewable resources. And as I've said, I mean, for me, our pulp and paper division is the best example. Practically, everything is based on the raw material goods. There's no more sustainable renewable business around [indiscernible] being a net addition on the pulp side, a net producer of green electricity on top of producing the pulp. Same for hydropower. So whether you say it's 50%, it's 2/3 of our business. But clearly, we are a green company and are taking into account the projects we have. I do not see us suffering from a tightening of green requirements, but rather benefiting from that. How much will it be? And how quickly will it be? I think we can have long discussions on that. But again, we see it as a general medium-term upside and not so much downside where we say we have to replace a certain amount of our business to make it at all sustainable, et cetera. So don't take us too optimistic as always. But again, we would not have communicated this solid EUR 7 billion and approaching EUR 8 billion and a solid 5% net income, if we would not feel comfortable that we, as a team, can achieve these goals. They are challenging. There is no guarantee we can achieve them, and Norbert has shown you some scenarios, and we could add 4 more scenarios, changing some of the variables. But taking all in all and our assessment and our desire to put up for us reasonably challenging goals, that's what we have decided to communicate. We can ensure that we will do everything to achieve that. And we look forward for your further attention and maintaining of the contact we have, which we very much appreciate, because you are very knowledgeable, and it's always challenging, but also [ coming ] rewarding to discuss with you, and therefore, many thanks for your participation. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Thank you for participating. Stay safe, stay strong and see you next time. Thank you very much. Bye-bye.

Thank you. Bye-bye.

Bye-bye.

Thank you.

Bye-bye. Thank you.