Angi Inc. (ANGI) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

[Audio Gap] here at Wedbush. Thanks for joining us today. We have a very exciting lineup centered around Real Estate technology. Thrilled to start the day off with Glenn Schiffman, CEO of IAC at ANGI Homeservices. Glenn, thanks so much for joining us today. Just a couple of quick notes. [Operator Instructions] So with that, we'll get started, and thanks, Glenn, appreciate you being with us.

My pleasure.

So let's start with the recent announcements of a change in management of the top with Brandon stepping down and then your Chief Product Officer, Oisin Hanrahan, taking over as CEO. I know Brandon was also a product guy stepping to that role. Why Oisin at this stage? And what does this move bring to the table for you in terms of reaching your product goals?

Yes. I mean Oisin was, obviously, more than the Head of Product at ANGI Homeservices. Oisin was a very senior member of the management team, and frankly, the architect and the visionary behind our move into fixed price. And as you know, we're going through a really exciting transformation that really opens up the total addressable market for us pretty significantly. And Oisin has been the driver of that for a period of time. I think also -- and you saw this in the press release that announced his addition. Oisin brings an entrepreneurial energy and a spirit and a scrappiness that I think was missing from ANGI Homeservices. And I think that the energy level there right now is the highest that, frankly, I've seen in a while. I think also bringing Oisin on as CEO, you saw the organizational changes there. And we think that's pretty positive, where we have one person, the Chief Revenue Officer, solely focused on driving the fixed price business. And then we have a Chief Revenue Officer solely focused on driving our marketplace matching business, which we think is pretty exciting. So we have a clear alignment, a clear focus around our 2 big horses, or 2 big engines. We have plans to accelerate the growth, obviously, in the traditional matching business, the marketplace matching business, under Bryan Ellis and then under Umang, continue the really exciting growth in fixed price. And this is -- there's been a lot of investor questions around this transition. And what I'd say to it is it's only natural as the business evolves and as an opportunity comes forth for us to transform this business once again. That leadership transitions happen, and we're in the midst of that right now, and we're excited about the leadership transition. We're excited about the org structure. And we do think this gets us faster to our goals of removing friction and adding value for both sides of the marketplace, the demand side, of course, in consumers; the 18 million households we touch every year; and on the SPs, the 250,000 SPs that we serve every year.

Great. Thanks for that. And looking forward to hearing from Oisin shortly. Let's kick off at a high level, just with an overview of where the business is. I mean there's been a surge in demand for home services since the beginning of the pandemic that somewhat worked against you in a way just because supply has been so impaired. You remain very focused on investing to build out the opportunity, as you mentioned, with fixed price, and we'll get into all that. So just at a high-level kind of state of the union for ANGI Homeservices right now, where you guys are? And then dovetailing on to that, if there's anything you could share around 1Q trends, what we're seeing so far through February and the first few days here in March.

Yes. Sure. Yes. I mean you're right to say the surge in demand in some respects works against us, right? We're at our core, a demand engine. And when our SPs and our customers are flooded with demand, they have less of a need for demand engines. That's why we've been over time, countercyclical, so to speak, and various recessions or various slowdowns in the business don't impact us as much. We think we fare better than other sources of demand for SPs because of the ROI that we give to our SPs. And we've previously published for every dollar, someone puts on our platform or spends with us. It's a 15 to 20x return on that dollar. And we're working hard again with product to get that even higher and increasing our SPs' win rate. So yes, it's kind of funny, surges in demand, especially volatile and episodic surges in demand are not terrific for us. Now it's, again, one of the reasons why we're so excited about fixed price is because fixed price enables us -- enables us to -- satisfies that. We can use 2 very powerful things with fixed price. We could use price to meet our supply and demand, and we could use time to meet our supply and demand. And again, by increasing the TAM, having the entire transaction on our platform, we open up additional revenue opportunities for us, which is exciting. In terms of the state of the union, how we're doing, February was slower than we expected. First of all -- and you'll see we'll report our monthly metrics, I think, next week or so. But you'll see a deceleration in February from January. Now one reason and probably the main reason for that deceleration is February had less days this year than last year. So 1 divided by 29 or 1 divided by 28, that's 3% right there. So our 6% from January with less days in February, obviously, that will impact us. And then we have not solved our supply constraint. We think we're making progress on that, but we still labor under the supply constraint, for sure. And then the weather patterns for this month were pretty aberrational. The extreme cold and the freeze in every -- probably every state south of the Mason Dixon line, that impacts our ability to monetize our demand, and you'll see that in the metrics. Now weather and episodic events smooth themselves out over a quarter, clearly, but in a month, they just do not. So I think you'll see a deceleration, as I said, in the February revenue from the 6% in January. We will still grow, but we will not grow at all significantly, or at all where we were hoping to be. On the EBITDA side -- that, of course, flows down to the EBITDA side. So EBITDA for the quarter will likely come in lower than we expected. And we're also investing. We had mentioned before. First quarter was a big investment quarter in fixed price, in marketing, and in our international business, and we've leaned into that slightly more. And then parachuting out and looking at the year and the quarter, on the revenue side, we've previously talked about 9% to 10% revenue growth for the ensuing quarters. We think we're probably at the lower range for Q1, given the weakness in February, maybe even lower than that, we'll see. We have obviously the headwind of the surge and the volatility in demand, and we have the tailwind of the COVID comp. So we have to see where March plays out to see if we're at that lower end of the 9% to 10% or even a scooch lower than that. Again, we'll see how it goes. And then more broadly, we are thinking, as you can imagine, given Oisin as CEO, given our focus on fixed price, given the success of fixed price, given what we think fixed price does for our business and how it transforms our opportunity and transforms our ability to penetrate the market in which we compete, we're considering investing more in fixed price this year, in branding and then also potentially investing more than we previously thought in that category management opportunity. So we'll, of course, transparently lay this out as we go forward. But we're super excited about our opportunity. And all of this is about -- all this investment we're talking about, let's put aside the temporary slowdown in February, all this investment about is accelerating our opportunity and accelerating our ability and de-risking our ability to penetrate the large addressable market in which we compete.

Got it. This is quite an update. We'll look for those -- the full metrics coming up. But I definitely want to spend our time today right around that area, the investments and the fixed price because that's obviously your big opportunity. So I want to make sure we really got to the heart of that. Right now, fixed price is a little over 10% revenue. You're still really at the early stage. As you said, you're likely going to invest even more into that. Your goal is to get to about 50% of revenue over the -- I think, you called it 5 to 7 years. So let's just start there. How does fixed pricing open up your addressable market and the opportunity for ANGI? Why is it so important versus -- not versus the marketplace, but I guess, in addition to the marketplace?

So at its highest level, it's a better experience for the customer, right? The customer, by and large, doesn't like the wrangle, and it's hard to kind of figure out the wrangle of hiring someone, knowing what to do, making sure it's a fair price and going from imagined to finish or start to finish, okay? Fixed price takes that all the way. Because we think we're a trusted platform, and we work hard to earn that trust every day. Again, 18 million households, 32 million service requests there. So we have the ability to price these jobs on a fair and transparent basis, and we can take the angst away from the customer. That's just a better experience for the customer, we think. And then on the SP, we fundamentally transform the equation where we go from asking an SP for money versus giving the SP money and the SP's win rate is 100%. And that's really important, because I know you and others have done surveys of our SPs. And their -- the win rate isn't always 100%. So if we can drive the win rate to 100%, our take rate will go up dramatically at no additional cost to the SP, in fact, the better experience for the SP. And that, of course, is really interesting from a P&L, from a revenue perspective. Also, by putting the entire transaction on our platform, we could do payments, we could do financing. And then potentially, as people get more and more comfortable with us, we can layer in maybe bundled services, maybe subscriptions. So we don't have to reacquire a customer every time a customer goes on our platform. They become the first choice. We -- sorry, we become the first choice. Our biggest competitor, as you know, as we've talked about many, many times, is word-of-math, okay? We'd like to change it, so they go to ANGI, and ANGI's our word of -- everyone's word-of-mouth. I trust ANGI. They provide a solution that's done, a solution that's at a fair price, and no matter what that is, we can fulfill. That's a goal. That's incredibly ambitious. As you've seen in our results, it's not going to be linear and up into the right, but that's where we think this ultimately migrates where, again, if you do a fixed price service per chance, it's the gutters, we have a relationship with you. You're probably, if not exclusively, on our app, we can engage with you and say, "Okay, the gutters, how about the sprinklers, how about the lawn", and all of a sudden, we manage your entire house outside. And then we can manage your entire house inside. The average American should do about 12 jobs a year on his or her home. The average American does not, because it's too darn hard. We do an average of 1.8 for all our customers. And you've heard me talk about one of the biggest margin -- the biggest margin drivers in our business is repeat. So if we can take that 1.8 to 2.0 to 2.5. And with some of our products we've disclosed, obviously, our repeat rate is significantly higher. That's what we need to do because, by and large, ours is an episodic business, and we are migrating it towards a recurring business, and that's really exciting.

Got it. And we'll dig into a lot of those things, particularly the financing and the payments and the subscription side, and all those are really interesting. But before we do that, so where you are right now, it's -- you're at about 200 jobs that are pre-priced. It's about -- you guys call it about 1/3 of the TAM, and you've done some testing around larger ticket items, which are a little bit harder to pre-price. Can you talk about that journey from where you are today to getting there? What some of the challenges are? And why you feel kind of confident that you can go in and preprice a kitchen remodel, for example, and that's something that could work in that model?

Yes. Look, I think we've passed a terrific milestone in the last year, right, $162 million or so of revenue in fixed price. So product market fit, absolutely, box checked there. And its contribution margin positive, which also box checked there, which means scale turns into profitability over time. The deficit, which we go in this effort, will determine how quickly we get profitable. Product market fit, clearly there. So the question is how far and wide to go. And we're rethinking everything, given Umang's promotion to Chief Revenue Officer over everything and Oisin's promotion over the entire business. I think where we're leaning towards is to go deeper into the medium and the lower consideration jobs and make those incredible experiences for homeowners and for SPs before we go to the higher-end consideration jobs. So I think you'll see us going deeper there and working on automating it. But the consumer taught us something over the last 12 to 18 months, and that is, again, clear product market fit. And you know from IAC, when we have aggregate demand and we have aggregate supply, which we do, and we have product market fit, the conversations we're having internally is how to make that even better, how to widen our distance from any competitor and how to pour fuel on that. And of course, that's balanced with. We've got to make sure the unit economics makes sense. We've got to make sure there is a path to profitability. I also said something on the earnings call last -- whatever it was, last month, which I don't know if got any play or not, but on our lower consideration jobs, on our everyday services, our contribution margin, again, on lower consideration everyday services, is higher than on an equivalent SR, okay? That also is a really, really interesting thing that gives us more confidence. So again, early days, and we're rethinking a lot, but we sit here pretty optimistic about that opportunity.

Great. Let's talk about frequency. It's -- obviously, one of the most important pieces for any business model. The stronger the frequency, less -- the lower the customer acquisition costs and just really strengthens the flywheel. So you noted that a little bit. You guys have been seeing really good frequency from the fixed price products and from the mobile app, from the subscription side. I want to talk about the subscription side a little bit more. You guys talked about it on the earnings call, too. It sounds like you're just scratching the surface there and your -- there's a lot more, but I think you are already offering a little bit around subscriptions. So what are you offering today? And how does that evolve over time?

Yes. Let's do a baseball analogy. We're not even in the first inning. We're in pre-game batting practice on this deal. So it's super early. It's a very rudimentary product right now. All we're really doing is giving you a discount. If you're a subscriber, we give you a discount on fixed-price services. But importantly, we commence that relationship, and get into a recurring revenue cadence with our customers. And again, like I said a little earlier, that starts the journey of us doing more and more for our customers. So we don't have to chase -- the customers then come back to us. The customers then have a more intimate relationship with us. The customers are on our app. We don't have to chase them around the Internet to serve them an ad and get them on the platform. So our cost per SR, clearly, then, therefore, goes down and our LTVs go up. That's the kind of math we like here at IAC, and that's kind of math we invest into. We made a tiny acquihire of an incredibly talented team, and they're on it. But it's early days, and you could see a world in which we bundle subscription with payments. We bundle subscription with financing. And again, early days, but this is an exciting development.

How are you marketing that subscription piece? People come to the site and you offer them a discount to sign up for it. Is that really what it is right now?

That's basically what it is. Look, with 32 million SRs coming on our platform, that creates a nice top of funnel, a beautiful top of the funnel. But we haven't done any marketing per se or any significant marketing per se on subscriptions. Nor for that matter, have we done any significant marketing per se on our fixed price offering. You haven't seen any TV on that. We've done some stuff online. But -- so we're relying on that top of the funnel. We spent a lot on marketing throughout ANGI in general, and we're going to continue to invest in that, and that drives top of the funnel, and then the consumer can pick their journey from there.

Got it. Let's talk about consumer financing payments, that's created a lot of value for many of the companies that we cover, especially on the payment side. So maybe just talk a little bit more about your plans for consumer financing. I would think that, that's something that would add a lot of value, especially on the higher consideration jobs and your plans around building payments directly into the ecosystem. And what about lending? Something we've seen from others is also lending to the business side. Is that something that's kind of -- that makes sense down your road map if your SPs want to grow and they need a little bit of capital to kind of grow out their business, is that something you think about as an opportunity as well?

Absolutely, we're on it. Again, early days, but we're on it. We think that drives TAM. We think that drives conversion rate. And we think that drives a more deeper relationship with our SPs. So for example, like our SPs can use our payment platform and potentially -- this is out in the future, this is not currently, but they can use our payments platform and make it use our financing on jobs that they don't source through ANGI. So all of a sudden, right, we've developed a whole another vector of growth. So again, early days. We're not there yet. But as we develop these products as we get more and more entwined with an SP, the $400 billion becomes all of our revenue opportunity, not just a small take rate of that. And we've created TAM, because the financing TAM is over and above that $400 million, potentially, the payments TAM is over and above. And that's the long game we're playing here.

Okay. So you mentioned this a little bit. I wonder if there is a little bit more to dig into, just around getting customers into these experiences is going to be really important for you. You noted the top of funnel from ANGI, the 32 million people that are coming there. Is that all you're focused on right now in terms of getting people in and then maybe just as we go over time, and it becomes a more important piece and you've invested more behind it, what are the plans to kind of get -- bring more consumers in on that side?

Yes. I mean, look, we -- it's multifaceted. I mean, obviously, we drive the top of the funnel. We want to drive the top of the funnel and for every day. There's -- you've seen us develop partnerships, and we're going to continue to do that down that path. And we spend a lot of money, obviously, on marketing every year. What sometimes is lost, and I try and always bring this up, is our 0 accept rate, as everyone knows, given our COVID-induced supply constraint has spiked, right? So we were at a 50-odd percent 0 accept for most of COVID. This last quarter, we get down to 47%. In the fourth quarter, we usually typically do better on that metric than other quarters. We used to be at 40% 0 accept, right? So if we go from 50% on average to 40%, that's 10%, right? Every -- quarter on average is 8 million service requests, 10% of 8 million is 800,000. At $70 a service request, that gives us $50 million of very high-margin revenue. So if we don't drive top of the funnel and every day, we work our tail off to drive top of the funnel, if we don't drive top of the funnel, and we are driving top of the funnel, you've seen SR growth pretty significantly through the pandemic, we still have all that embedded growth, right? We have latent -- what I call, latent demand and latent supply, and it's all about monetization. And it gets back to our product discussion, our product discussion and our product priorities want to take advantage of that latent demand and that latent supply. Did I answer the question? I mean I've been [indiscernible] these questions, so I apologize.

You did. And I actually want to go into a little bit more detail on that. You're talking about building a large and loyal audience, right? That's really critical for you guys. Let's just talk on the competitive environment for a little bit. That's a question we get a lot from investors. Who's ANGI's competitor? And I know you just said it, word-of-mouth is your biggest competitor. But let's just stick on the digital side for a little bit. Google turned into a headwind for you guys a little over a year ago. I think it was a little -- maybe we're coming up on 2 years now actually.

Right, summer of '19.

Summer of '19. Right. It's hard to keep track of time in these days. But you kind of addressed it, but Google is still kind of, on the digital side, a meaningful competitor. Can you talk about Google a little bit, the things that you're continuing to do to be less reliant on Google? And I know you've got partnerships with Realogy, with Lowe's. You're trying to drive more traffic directly to the app. What's the digital ecosystem like? And how do you really kind of capture that to the best of your ability?

Yes. Look, it's everything we've been saying. Yes, it's driving to the apps. Yes, it's partnership. Yes, it's investing in brand and having people think about, I said earlier, us as the source of word-of-mouth, not the competition to word-of-mouth, and it's the repeat usage. As you have a great experience with fixed price and actually had a fixed price experience yesterday and a matching experience yesterday, and they were outstanding experiences. Now, we don't always have outstanding experiences, right? We're human as well, and it's early days. But when it works, boy, it's magical. And just like when other Internet consumer platforms, I want a blue shirt, I can go somewhere, and I can have a blue shirt waiting for me tomorrow morning at my front doorstep. That's where we're going to. And if we get there, again, it's not going to be linear, it's going to be hard. It's going to require investment like other great Internet platforms and how they've invest, fundamentally transforming the product experience. Repeat will increase. Repeat will increase. We got to just be better, service the customers better, service the SPs better. And that's the long game we're playing, and we're excited to play it.

Got it. Are you guiding any real contribution from the Realogy partnership right now?

Yes, the Realogy partners is -- partnership, we haven't disclosed any of the metrics on it. I think they've talked a lot about it. I think the Realogy partnership is super interesting. The change it control of a home or the sale of a home to put it in better terms, a lot goes up, right? The seller has to get the home ready to sell and the buyer turns the house into a home. So the number of SRs that are around that are really, really interesting. So Realogy is a start. They're invested in the partnership, we're invested in the partnership. And we hope we can expand that. But again, think repeat usage, if we have a great experience with the seller and the buyer of the home where they rely on ANGI Homeservices, make it seamless, I never have to call anyone again. That is my word-of-mouth because I trust ANGI, they deliver. And that word-of-mouth, if I want my gutter, if I want my this, if I want my that, that's my word-of-mouth solution.

Got it. Is that an exclusive partnership? Or can you potentially do similar things with other real estate providers?

I'm not sure if the terms of that partnership have been publicly disclosed. So I'll [indiscernible] on that one.

Okay. Let's shift slightly. We've been really focused on the fixed price side. But clearly, the issues around capacity constraints on the marketplace side are continuing to be a headwind, as noted earlier. What can you do to narrow that gap in the near term? I know you've hired a lot more around sales. What are the things that you can do there to kind of narrow it aside from all the investments in the fixed price and payments in that piece?

Yes. I mean some of it's outside of our control, right? We're all reading every day of supply chain bottlenecks. The latest thing last week in the journal was lumber. Lumber is very expensive and good luck getting lumber, copper gutters, et cetera, et cetera. Some of it is the supply chain, which is having some real issues. Some of it is SP's ability to hire people, which has been a challenge. Some SPs just don't want to go into someone else's home. So that's a challenge, again, outside our control. And then you have the natural backlog. These SPs are very busy. All that being said, yes, you said it right. It's fixed price to solve that. And we're also doing -- and under our new org structure, I think this will help us a lot. We're de-average -- we're trying to de-average everything and not -- the SPs that we have on our platform range from the SPs that have a big call center and hundreds of technicians in the field to the one-man shop. And that embedded in that is the solution that we're working on. We're de-averaging it. The solution for a one-man shop is different than the solution for someone with the call center. So again, it's product and it's the -- it's product in the natural evolution of a business that gets to our size and gets to our scale. And our challenge and our opportunity is to continue to transform ourselves, and continue to grow in the context of this market. So you'll hear us talk more and more about specific solutions for different SPs. And I think therein is a good path forward to think about the answer to that question.

Got it. Very helpful. Well, let's take one -- we have one from the field right now. So I'll just read that one off. And just as a reminder to everyone, if you have any questions, you could drop them into the Q&A function, and I could ask them on your behalf. So the question is, how should we think about the gen revenue per transaction on the traditional matching business growing throughout '21 and further out in time as well?

Yes. So it grew in 2020, not terribly robustly. Obviously, in January and February, its growth was challenged for sure. You see our number of transacting SPs. Again, I call that kind of a top-of-the-funnel metric. That's been strong. That's been the 9%, the 10%, the 11% kind of number. What our challenge has been our revenue per transacting SPs, and you see that show up in a couple of different ways and the difference being monetized transactions and service requests. So our path to growing that is SP engagement is solving -- is anniversarying, not just the COVID comp, but the impact of COVID. And then continuing to make sure we drive win rate to the SPs and get SPs more active on our platform. And again, it gets back to the de-averaging comment of that, that I talked about, it gets back to the product. It's not just fixed price, that is our only innovation on product. We've gotten ANGI's List to grow by more equitably sharing contacts with our SPs. And we think there's product work around on the traditional matching business as well that will alleviate some of these concerns. Some of our consumer choice functions where it's -- we're experimenting in various areas with a kind of a double opt-in concept to drive the win rate higher. So there's a lot of things we could do. And that's the benefit, frankly, of having such a wide footprint, 500 Geos -- sorry, 500 categories, 400 Geos. And in Europe, we're in what, 7, 8 countries, if you include Austria, and we have very -- we have kind of different models in Europe than we have in here. So we're experimenting with a lot there. And we think as the impact of COVID recedes, we think we can get that business accelerating. How fast? That's a great question. We're not stopping to debate how fast, we're continuing to innovate in that, and we're continuing to drive fixed price.

Got it. Okay. So you mentioned two things that one, there's another question in the field; and the one that I want to ask about. Just any more update on Europe, things that you're seeing there that give you hope of a quicker than expected rebound? I know general, the restrictions there have been a little bit more challenging. So it's been more of a headwind for everyone, not just for you. But anything you're seeing there?

Yes. So first and foremost, we're benefiting from the currency. So the currency has been a headwind for a while. That's a tailwind. So it's only fair. When you look at our Europe numbers, which are -- were strong. Obviously, in January, will be strong in February, the dollar has helped us there. That said, on February -- oh gosh, the first week of February, February 4, 5 or 6, we lapped the replatforming of France. France is our largest business. And that replatforming has been positive. The management team there did a really nice job of that. So that gets them on a common platform, that changes the business model. And now we're growing again in France, which is -- in France, which is our largest business, is providing a real tailwind. And the team there, Jeff, and Ronald, have really done a nice job over the years. We -- in 2018, we made real progress in the Netherlands, and that stuck. 2019, we made real progress in Germany and that stuck. And in 2020, we made real progress in France and that stuck. And yes, that's returning to growth, and that will be in all likelihood with the progress they've made there and the accretion we're getting from the currency, that will be accretive to our growth throughout the entire year. And I think we passed a significant milestone there, the re-platforming work in France. So we're excited.

Great. And then last question for me. We spend a lot of time on HomeAdvisor. Obviously, investors are a lot more focused there, I think, rightfully. But just on ANGI's lists specifically, you've returned that back to growth. With all the things that you're doing around fixed price and kind of building tech and this ecosystem around HomeAdvisor, why is ANGI's List still important? And what role does it play for you guys in your ecosystem?

Yes. I mean we -- a lot of SPs like to interact with us, however, in different ways. So some SPs prefer the ANGI's List platform. Some SPs prefer fixed price, some SPs prefer our matching platform. We used to talk about the SP universe as 2 million to 3 million. Some of the recent studies have shown, it's 3 million to 4 million. So we want to make sure we have the best solution and a panoply of solutions for all SPs in the market. And ANGI's List is one of them and doing, as you said, very well. It's also -- from a margin perspective, it's a very attractive business because, obviously, we share a ton of costs in the business. So it's absolutely part of our future. I think with ANGI's List now being managed next to our marketplace matching -- or HomeAdvisor marketplace matching business under one person. I think we're going to try and think creatively around can we and should we integrate that business a little more. Are there long-term cost savings there by thinking about sales force, operations? Remember that whole third bucket of synergies I talked about in May of 2017, when we acquired ANGI's List, maybe merging the sales force. We never got there. Unclear, we will. But in this new org structure, there's no safer cows. So we're thinking creatively around are there opportunities to drive that business together, could that be a short-term investment for a long-term gain. Again, we're thinking about that, but this org structure liberates that kind of thinking.

Got it. We have a few more minutes. I want to ask one more actually, just around M&A. You're -- obviously, there's a lot of investment here in a lot of different areas. Do you think about M&A as being able to kind of build on that, accelerate some of what you're doing? Or are you more focused on doing things organically internally?

Yes, yes and yes. And you know IAC well enough. ANGI, we think we have a great runway of organic growth at ANGI and IAC and all of our businesses. Well, we look at M&A very simply. Can M&A accelerate our business or de-risk our business? So if there's something out there to accelerate or de-risk our business, we're all ears. Now as you know, the market has gotten a little more challenging for bid or bid to meet sellers ask, bid meet ask. So -- and I think it's even gotten more challenging for larger acquisitions. So we have a great runway of organic growth here. Again, it's going to be a little rocky here and there as we work through some of the current challenges and the current opportunities. But we have a long runway, we think of organic growth, and we'd love to supplement it with M&A. Again, if it's consistent with our strategy and accelerates us.

Great. I'll leave it there. Thanks so much for the time, Glenn. That was incredibly helpful, informative. Thanks for joining us.

Thank you, and thanks, everyone, for their support. And thank you for letting me substitute for Brandon in this response.

Great. Thanks. Talk to you soon.