Anterix Inc. (ATEX) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Well, thanks, and good afternoon, and welcome back to Citi's Global TMT West Conference. For those of you I haven't met yet, I'm Mike Rollins, and I cover the communications services and infrastructure sectors for Citi Research. We do have disclosures available on the conference and registration site. If you didn't get those and you like them, you can also e-mail me at [email protected]. This session is intended for Citi clients, and it's closed to the media. So if there's anyone from the media on the line, you could excuse yourself. I'd also like to welcome Iyad Tarazi, President and CEO of Federated Wireless; and Rob Schwartz, President and CEO of Anterix, to discuss Private LTE and Shared Spectrum opportunities. It's great to see you both today.

Great to see you, Mike. Thanks for having us.

Thank you.

Great. Well, if I could turn it over to each of you to just take a moment and introduce your company for our audience and describe your company's strategy and role that allows others to share Spectrum and employ Private LTE systems? Rob, we could start with you.

Sure. Thanks again, Mike, and thanks for having us at this event. I'd say, it's as good as usual, although the food probably isn't as good as it was in Vegas as we're pushing forward here. But I'm sure we'll get back there soon enough. Look, I'm proud to be the CEO of Anterix. Anterix, for those of you who don't know, we're a public company founded by the founders of Nextel with a very specific focus, which is taking a nationwide band of 900-megahertz spectrum that we own throughout the country. We went through an FCC process to have the rules changed, so it could be used for broadband, and specifically, are focused on bringing this spectrum to market to enable critical infrastructure, entities and enterprises focused primarily on utilities to build Private LTE networks. And so with the rulemaking that we got in May to effectuate the use of this broadband spectrum, and we're proud to have announced recently our first major customer, Ameren, on that network. We're excited about enabling Private LTE networks on this 900-megahertz low-band spectrum.

And Iyad?

Yes, let me jump in. Thank you so much, Michael, as always, and I will miss Vegas. Eventually, will all be back. We're a software company. Think of us as the Airbnb of spectrum. The band is CBRS, which most people probably know about it. It is a large mid-band spectrum that's specifically being built for sharing by the regulators. It's in a sweet spot for 5G, which is mid-band. This is the weak, probably everybody believes and understands that with the pricing of C-band that we're seeing, mid-band is popular. We pioneered the regulatory process, created the product, created an ecosystem, and we created some enablers. Probably what's known about it that is the innovation behind it is that it is cloud native. It's about managing interference through APIs. We have built special sensors on the coasts to monitor the Navy and allow 99% of the spectrum to be available. We use sophisticated algorithms, and we basically built a lot of partnerships. It's very low-cost per entry. There really is 0 cost to entry, and the spectrum is available immediately under 200-milliseconds from the time you request it. And so create a lot of new models. Looking forward to talk about some of them here on the panel. Thank you, Michael.

Thank you. Well, let's get our audience involved, and we'll introduce our first survey question during our time together. And I'll ask it to our audience, it is anonymous. We're not tracking individual responses. And the question for our audience is how -- or what or how can CBRS best be used? Is it indoor coverage and venues? Is it outdoor macro coverage, Private LTE networks, a turbocharger for what many expect to be the upcoming C-band deployments or all of the above? And so we'll throw that out to our audience. And while we do that, I'd like to ask each of you if you could share the breadth of interest that you're seeing from utility companies and enterprises that want to build or at least access to a private network? And Iyad, we could start with you and then go to Rob.

Sure. For us, it's probably pretty easy to articulate a lot of discussions with the utilities, a lot of active prototyping for enterprise solutions. In terms of numbers, 10 utilities paid $170 million plus at the PAL Auctions. These are the licenses to -- I call them as to elbow somebody else out of your way into CBRS. 2 are already in deployment with us, close to 100-plus cell sites each. Several are in the testing evaluation phases. And there are a lot of adjacency to that. Oil and gas and refineries that were seeing a lot of interest in that. And we're seeing -- on the enterprise space, in general, we're seeing a lot of business development activities. The leaders in this space appear to be the DOD. There are $600 million rolled out by the Pentagon to create 5G solutions. We were fortunate to win one of the big contracts, $12 million contract for 5G private wireless deployment in one of the Marine Corps warehouses for automation of vehicles and for managing robotics. And that is probably one of the early deployments that we will learn a ton from. We have done some other deployments with AWS in a campus. We're doing other deployments with other partners, and we're happy to talk about all of that. Very, very early first 10 minutes of a 9-inning game, but a very exciting 10 minutes, if you would.

And Rob?

Yes. I think, first of all, I'm going to say, it's a pleasure to be with Iyad. My friend, Iyad. And what's important to note is we're going to talk about, obviously, CBRS, other bands and 900, the Anterix band, there's a really strong complementary aspect of CBRS with 900. We've been talking about it for a while. Those in the wireless space understand this. As you see the layer cake, the way in which any global carrier has evolved over time, starting with low-band as foundational coverage and building on to other spectrum bands. So I think it's an important just foundational point to put out there as we talk about these customers, Iyad really gave a good summary of the way utilities have actively participated in the CBRS auction, which is really important. And it's really the first time you've seen end users outbid carriers for spectrum. And it just, to me, shows, first of all, the ability to pay, but the willingness to pay and the understanding of the value that can be created from that spectrum. And so I think that's -- that, to me, is the tip of the iceberg of some of the indications of utilities' interest because as Iyad said, there's a lot of utilities that have stepped forward. We've been working with utilities really over the past several years as we've been perfecting our licenses. And now that we have, we -- there's over 40 major utilities, investor-owned utilities in our pipeline that we've talked about. 8 of them have been granted experimental licenses by the FCC. So a number of large investor-owned utilities are out experimenting and demonstrating the ability of using Private LTE on 900-megahertz in their footprints. We recently announced the granting of Dominion's experimental license as the eighth one. We're also seeing a tremendous amount of commercial demand. We announced just near the end of December our first significant customer contract, a long-term lease with Ameren, the utility in Illinois, Missouri, public company. It's a 30-year lease, with an additional 10-year renewal option. And so it really also gives you an idea of the duration that these utilities look when they build and put something in place, the useful life for them is a long time relative to commercial users. Utilities, you can see now, some of the systems that Ameren has talked about that this system will be replacing our legacy systems that have been in place for over 30 years. One of the key people at Ameren talked about in the press release, quote, that we put out about the convergence of over 20 existing legacy systems that they have onto this more robust private LTE system. And the demand side, kind of what's driving the interest from these utilities? It's really coming from some pretty key elements. One is, obviously, the security aspect of it, right? And so cybersecurity is at the forefront. We've heard about all the incidents that occurred across the landscape, but specifically within the utility infrastructure. So the ability to have a private separated network and carry that traffic outside of any commercial network where they're prioritized, they have the control and the aspect to build it where they want. And so Private LTE is really a solution that both on the low-band to provide the broad area coverage. These are utilities that have state-wide territories, and they've got transmission lines and substations in places where there is no other coverage alternatives. And so they have to build this, and they're used to this. Utilities have been operating private networks for decades. So the idea of building and operating private networks isn't new. So we're seeing really demand across the utility sector, but also in a lot of other industrial sectors as well.

I'm glad you touched on that in terms of the reasons why firms would use private networks because it's a question that we get with -- especially moving into 5G, where there's the concept of network slicing, we're being asked why an enterprise or utility would want a private network. Iyad from your experiences with the CBRS, are there some additional reasons or factors that our clients should be mindful of as to why enterprises and utilities would employ private networks for wireless?

Yes. Sure. Absolutely. I mean -- and we've been engaged in about 100 different private wireless deployments. A lot of them are for testing and prototyping over the last 5 years. What has emerged at the end of the day is that people look for private wireless to be a tool for privacy security and control. They don't necessarily think of it as a way to replicate carrier business. They don't think of it as a way to displace Wi-Fi. They think of it as something like this. The deployment we did in Carnegie Mellon with the AWS team is probably a good example. The team there wanted to monitor social distancing at bus stops. They wanted to do it cheaply. They were able to get, from AWS, a good high-definition video solution to install at bus stops. And they wanted to be able to install a quick and simple network, but they also wanted to be their own. They want it to be very secure, very isolated, under their control with their own applications or their own software. And that's where CBRS and private wireless in general comes in, in these types of applications. It could be much, much larger. But ultimately, they're looking to have a network that is 100% firewalled from the outside world. And the new requirements that we're seeing is for it to be software-driven, to be programmable, to be driven -- to enable edge compute solutions to allow them to integrate it seamlessly into their enterprise security infrastructure, to integrate it into the wireless WAN and wired -- and wireless WAN type solutions. For example, integrated with SD-WAN type applications. All of these are new drivers that we're not used to as we came from the carrier business. So I expect that these private wireless solutions will have 2 personalities. One is, has an operator view that require it to be either managed by an operator or by an enterprise that will bring in OEMs and partners like the people on this panel and others. But then there's also another personality of it that will have to be truly open, software-managed, integrated into enterprise ecosystem, allow the enterprise team at that enterprise to be able to manage it. So I would say, privacy, security, programmability, the ability to control it and manage it is what people are after, ultimately.

Let's bring in the results from our first survey question, see how our audience thinks about the applications for that CBRS spectrum that we were talking about earlier. And it looks like you have an even split between indoor coverage and venues, outdoor macros and Private LTE networks. And we'll come back to a little bit more on CBRS in a moment. But as each of your customers are trying to deploy and consider deploying private networks, like how do they do that? It just seems like a skill set that most utilities or enterprise companies that are focused on their widgets and their services and their people that they don't have the in-house wireless expertise. So how does a non-wireless firm go about building a Private LTE network?

Yes. Ultimately -- so that is a million-dollar question right now in the industry, no question. Everybody is trying to figure it out. I would say traditional system integrators are a preferred path for many people. These are people that have their own applications. Without mentioning names, if you think of big retail operators, they've invested billions, if not -- billions into their own application infrastructure, security, and they built their own IoT frameworks and ways on board employees and ways to automate retail. And they want something that -- they typically will go look for system integrator-type solutions because they've used them before. Enterprise OEMs, cloud companies are getting into the business. They're trying to figure out a way to extend their partner models, their third-party solutions, their VARs into that. That's the work we did with AWS, was basically a cloud solution for deployment. We were one of many that they've integrated into the solution, and they basically operate it as within their overall platform of creating a customer-specific solutions that can be bought in the marketplace really. There is -- we've created a light SI model for some of our close customers to help. There are some light SI models that are being created by tower companies. Some of our partners are working on that, specifically looking at early opportunities. There's also offerings from traditional OEMs, the Ericsson, Nokia as others. Typically, they target really big installations that are visible that look as close to carrier model as possible. I personally think where the market is going to evolve. We're beginning to see very, very early stages of that is you're going to see a really big base of resellers, general partners that are specialized in this. And they've become really the path to market in the bigger sense. So for example, we've created now a set of easy to understand onboarding tools for VARs for them to be able to say, okay, I'm talking to a customer about deploying a fixed wireless network for CBRS. They don't really know what that means. Can you give us the list of 5 things they have to do? Yes, you need a planning tool, potentially, you need an ARF Engineering services contract. Here are the people you can work with. I think we're going to see more of that. But again, we're very, very early in the development process. There's no natural go to other than the normal chaos that comes from enterprise adoption of anything.

And Mike, if I could add...

Rob, how about for the utility companies? Yes.

Yes. Absolutely. One of the reasons, well multiple reasons why Anterix is focused on utilities in that regard is because utilities, if you think about it, have been operating very large complex networks. And people say it's one of the most complex systems in the world as the electric grid. And so their ability to build, own and maintain infrastructure is pretty substantial. Obviously, their ability to raise capital and deploy capital as well as they build out these systems. Historically and going forward, they have a strong incentive to do so. And so what we see is a strong interest, as we talked about from all of the reasons why, from a control standpoint, the ability to control reliability and security and the resiliency, one of the key words to them, how fast networks bounce back after incidences? And we've seen so many different kinds of incidents that have occurred across the country from wildfires to storms to cyber instances. But also importantly, and compared to carrier networks. I know, Iyad and I both come from the carrier world. So we've got tremendous respect for the models and the great businesses that the carriers have. But in a carrier world, the prioritization of usage in the most important time of need is also really important. And that's where a private network, where you own the spectrum or at least have the proprietary rights to use that spectrum, is critical. We are seeing -- and part of the role that Anterix plays here is bringing this utility industry together to understand exactly how to best approach build, own and operate these kind of networks. So we launched something called the Utility Broadband Alliance, for example, which now has over a dozen different members, large utilities that have been founding members. Uniquely in the sector, the customers, right, the utilities are willing to work together. So Ameren does a pilot and test 14 different important use cases. They immediately come and present that findings to the Utility Broadband Alliance and share it with all the members. So they're all climbing this collective curve together, and there's a level of support. There's also a lot of key vendors as part of it. In fact, Federated is part of that group as well, so that when the utilities come together in this forum, they're able to learn from vendors collectively about how to do so. We're seeing a lot of different kinds of approaches from the vendor community, which is now growing into a pretty significant ecosystem, thanks to both the work done at Utility Broadband Alliance, but a lot also about the ecosystem growing on the backs of CBRS. We're seeing all of the large OEMs focused on the opportunity. And so utilities that want to go for a full turnkey solution are able to do that in the traditional way. We're also seeing all of the large-scale engineering firms, the engineering firms of record of these utilities, developing expertise, acquiring expertise to be able to -- because they realize this is the future of the infrastructure of these utilities. One last thing, I think it's really important is kind of what's driving these utilities into the need, right? So when we think about sort of the changing business model of utility, historically generating power in one place with a spider web of wires, bringing that power out to every place, including our homes, now with all of the changes that are really being forced upon them, but now being embraced by utilities with distributed energy, with renewable energy, and we'll clearly see even greater acceleration with the new administration in that area, there's a need to have a much more robust communication layer to be able to communicate with a growing number of endpoint sensors on -- most of this is fixed wireless, devices that are already existing in networks, but are being deployed in networks as well to be able to get this level of command and control of what now are distributed energy sources and intermittent sources of energy. So you've got to monitor when solar power is coming in and when that home or industrial leader -- user is going to need power coming out. And so the growing need for the support of this renewable energy sources is a critical use case. The other side we talked about is cybersecurity, right? The ability to have such a higher level of awareness, situational awareness of all the assets in the network. Historically, the networks weren't -- just weren't designed for that, both because of the legacy communication systems and the kind of devices that are being put out there. Now with the ability to have a wide-scale broadband communication network that they can build where they need it, how they need it and prioritize how they need to be is a critical piece of the solution, and that's what we're seeing utilities driving towards.

Rob, if you could spend a couple of minutes and talk about the transaction that you just announced with Ameren? In a couple of respects, why now? Why was this the right time? How did you agree on a value with someone that hasn't been operating in the wireless arena? And finally, was there an interest or a path for them to use CBRS in their pursuits?

Absolutely. So as I mentioned briefly in the opening, we were very proud to announce our first large-scale commercial customer with Ameren, the investor-owned utility in the lower half of Illinois and most of Missouri. They announced that they'll be building a system-wide service territory-wide Private LTE system. It's a 30-year deal with an additional 10-year renewal. It's about $48 million contract. We'll get about 50% of that upfront in 2021. The rest would be paid -- prepaid through 2026. So it's a prepaid lease, in essence, over that term. And so we're wildly excited about Ameren as this partner. Ameren, for those of you who don't know them, and if you're not sort of a utility wonk, it wouldn't be a reason that you do. But they are the bread and butter supplier in that area, but also a national leader in the utility sector. Their CEO, Warner Baxter, is very much a visionary on a number of big industry platforms. He's now the Vice Chair of the Edison Electric Institute, which is probably the most notable group. And when he executed this agreement, he's made some really strong statements about the importance of them bringing this digitization capability, is really what they talk about in the utility space, but it's taking these legacy fragmented information networks and putting them into a single pool of data. And you think about all the things that are -- that they can then do with that as they bring this data together across all these different -- or historically, I call them kind of puddles of information, and now they build this big data lake collectively to use for all the right kind of things, using all of the capabilities across the artificial intelligence decision-making or doing predictive analytics, for using drones to be able to monitor everything from vegetation growth and for service on their lines. So they've got an exhaustive list of current use cases that cost-justified your question about price paid, that cost justifies today buying it. What they and we are really wild excited is about the future. It's kind of like when we first got our first 4G phone and said, someday we'll get video on this, and the content had to catch up. There's very much the same thing going on the utility space that Private LTE is rationalized by the current use cases. But the exciting part is what they'll be able to do with in the future as future developments happen with new use cases and application layers that go on top of that. I think a lot of what Iyad talked about, what's happening on the edge cloud and with the cloud vendors is going to bring a whole another layer of excitement and capabilities there. About the price itself, the $48 million they paid, I think it was just kind of about the midpoint between the 600-megahertz auction and the AWS auction. It's kind of historical bookends as we looked at it. Although I think with the C-band auction going on, that may change the paradigm as we move forward. If people are paying those kind of prices for mid-band, obviously, that says a lot about the value of our low-band spectrum as well. So we expect to continue to see transactions occurring kind of within that range. But it does take time. It's a good question, Mike, about how do you get utilities to understand the value of spectrum. Historically, utilities got spectrum for free. They got narrow-band channels to operate their LMR 2-way radio systems for filing a $35 application with the FCC. And so they've been asking for broadband spectrum for over a decade from the FCC. And finally, with that report and order, we were able to bring spectrum to the market. But obviously, it's at a cost. And I think with the help of a lot of outside experts, as you know, there's no shortage of information available and transaction comparable information, have gotten comfortable and bringing it back to the CBRS auction issue, we've seen a number of utilities that finally realize that they actually have to compete in these auctions to be able to get spectrum. So we're confident now that Ameren shows not just the willingness and the ability of utilities to pay, but also the value that can be created with low-band spectrum in their networks.

Thanks. And Iyad, if we can go back to you for a moment, the survey we put up earlier showed different use cases for CBRS. And this has been a big debate for both carriers, the investors and even the perception that tower companies have in terms of how CBRS gets used. Can you frame for us, based on what you're seeing from your customers, what percentage is going indoor and venues? What percentage is going macro? Are you seeing a significant amount of fixed wireless being used on this, which is another application that we've heard about? Just be curious for the context of how CBRS is being used so far.

Sure. Thank you. By the way, the survey response was dead on because we're seeing all 3: indoor, outdoor and fixed wireless. So I think that it was absolutely accurate. The vast majority of deployment early on is fixed wireless primarily because there are a lot of equipment already deployed that had 3.5 in it with this. All it needed is a software to allow it to become CBRS capable. So we've seen a lot of deployment there. Just in terms of numbers, today, we're -- as a system, we're about 100,000 nodes. These are either cell sites or access points. We're adding about 10,000 to 20,000 a month is what we exited last year and accelerating. So there's -- we're in real deployment. We, at Federated, we're 48% market share in terms of deployments. The other big player is Google. And then after that, the next player is about 4% or so. So it's essentially a 2-player business today. We are seeing a lot of MNO densification, cell sites. We're beginning to see a lot of venues in preparation and DaaS deployments. There have been multiple launches from operators, the private wireless solutions for -- that include CBRS, namely AT&T and Verizon, both went and different models and launched it. We are also seeing a lot of prototyping and development in labs in cloud companies and in equipment makers for enterprise and traditional OEMs that are beginning to work on our early deployments for enterprise indoor solutions. So my expectation in the long term is that it's going to be -- in 5 years, it's probably going to be primarily indoor, but there will be very significant outdoor deployment for -- specifically for fixed wireless and densification. That will be my expectation over time.

Just a follow-up on that very briefly. When you say there's 100,000 nodes that you currently have from your customers, what does that mean? Is like a node a sector in the cell site? Is a node a cell site? How do we just kind of contextualize, because 100,000 is a significant number?

Yes, it's a radiating node. It means it has its own antennas and directionality, and it's generating its own power and heat because remember, what we do is we create these real-time performance management in the software and the cloud. And the regulatory process is all around that. So for a big macro cell site, it might be 3 nodes. For a 250-milliwatt indoor small cell, that's maybe one node. The vast majority of fixed wireless deployments with CBRS will probably not be counted as nodes. We'll only count the cell site just off because it's low-power. But for a lot of the fixed wireless that require high-power CPE at a big location that would be a node. So it's a hodgepodge of stuff. A Wi-Fi access point, like that would be a node. So we support all of them in different ways. But anybody coming from the carrier business knows that I used to struggle to try to get 1,000 small cells deployed in a year and call it a good year, or maybe in some cases, say, no, guys, it's going to be next year again, right? To be able to build a system, because of the open ecosystem, because of the way sharing works, because of the software automation, to be able to bring 20,000 nodes a month, that tells you densification of network will happen. That tells you sharing is really going to work, and you're going to be able to onboard all these customers. That's what's quite essential for us to create a deployment model that can scale.

Another question for each of you is as you look into the future and you look at the spectrum that's out there, spectrum that's underutilized, not being used, up for reclassification, how do you think about the opportunity to expand the addressable market for each of your businesses? Iyad, beyond CBRS for you. Rob beyond the low-band spectrum that you have. Just kind of curious how our audience should think about that future direction for each of the businesses? Iyad, we could start with you and then go to Rob.

Yes. There's 2 opportunities today that are active in the FCC process. That range between 3.1 to 3.55, which is right below CBRS is being pegged to be suitable for sharing or clearing or a combination. The proceedings for a 3.45, 3.55 are active. And actually, the last legislation that went through Congress during the holiday included a requirement for the FCC to at least auction a portion of it by the end of '21. Yes, Michael, one more auction coming your way. The rules there, most likely, will look like an extension of CBRS, but also more power. And it will probably be combined with CBRS for now at 250 framework. That's very exciting. There's a lot of people engaged. We have a good coalition working with us. I feel good about it. The other early work is the 12-gigahertz. There's 500-megahertz there, where Chairman Pai circulated a draft notice for sharing the 500-megahertz between satellite system and terrestrial 5G, and it would need a sharing system as well. There's a few other items like 6-gigahertz include some sharing. But I would say for your audience, these are the 2 big ones. The extension below CBRS and 12 gig and over the next 2, 3 years of both become real.

Thanks. And Rob?

Yes. I think to add-on, I think, first of all, you know our background as -- we have -- the founders of Nextel, we are all about the spectrum opportunities. And it's not just about the speculation of that spectrum, it's the businesses we can build with that spectrum. And so when you start with the foundational aspect of our nationwide 900-megahertz spectrum, our clear #1 objective is to be able to continue to monetize it in the way we've demonstrated with the validation of the Ameren deal, and continue that momentum to be able to do so. We expect -- kind of through our fiscal year-end, we've talked about, which is March 30 -- fiscal year in 2024, March 31, 2024, to roughly trying to get to monetization of half of that spectrum sort of as we ramp up. And what's interesting in the utility space, these are -- it's a big game hunting. These are the large customers that it doesn't take a lot of customers for us to be able to get to that. We estimate somewhere between 6 and 11 of the large investor-owned utilities to be able to fill that kind of pipeline. But with that said, other bands, you asked the question before and I don't think I got to it, we absolutely see already the opportunity to use CBRS as part of that, right? So the overlay of CBRS on low-band in all the kind of use cases that we've talked about already, whether it's spot capacity in areas, being able to do things in doors in certain places or certain campus environments, clearly not a substitute at all for wide area, but a complement for that kind of capacity, we are actively looking at other bands to find opportunities. And when you think about kind of how Anterix expands beyond the spectrum monetization, it's into other bands. It's also into other services. As we start building this nationwide network of networks that we like to call it, the collective of utilities and other industrials that are going to build private networks, the benefit of them working together and having someone like Anterix as the connective tissue between that, the services that will be required, then once that starts happening are the kind of things that are of interest to us. And so it's both expansion to other products and services, with partners for sure, but also expansion into other potential spectrum bands.

In our final few minutes, are there opportunities, other opportunities or aspects of your business that you want our audience to be mindful of as they think about each of you over the next 12 months? Rob we will start with you.

Sure. And so for us as a company, the validation of the business model we've been talking about, bringing our spectrum to market for a long time and getting report and order and having that going in the federal register this past year was a big occasion. It takes time and patience, and we thank the investors that have come along with us for the journey. Same thing with the customer side. These are long sales cycle customers that we're going after. It requires a lot of patience. The prediction of the day or week when they're going to happen, it can't necessarily happen. But for us, it's the long game about being able to bring this collective industry to market. The value that we've demonstrated with our first transaction, I think, absolutely can be extrapolated into the value of both the asset and our balance sheet, but obviously, the asset we want to bring forward. And we think that's just the foundation of the platform on which we're going to continue to build our business opportunity on nationwide scale.

Thanks. And Iyad?

I think there are 2 things that will probably be interesting. One is that I do expect there'll be more power in CBRS and more power for new bands for sharing. That will obviously be something that would remove a lot of the concern that people have had perceived or not. I do think that there's an environment because we have proven that these systems can work. We can continue to improve the algorithms and ask for more power. That's something I expect to happen in the next 18 months or so. The other thing is that there is, in this business, a marketplace aspect or a resale aspect of PAL. We're seeing a lot of interest from people looking for these touchless marketplace developments from the PAL Auction proceedings that they won, and we would -- you should expect us to begin to create that market later this year. Thank you for the opportunity here, Michael.

Yes. Thank you for sharing your time with us today. It's great to see you both. Look forward to doing this in-person in the future. And thanks to our audience for joining us today.

Thanks, Mike. Good seeing you Iyad. Take care.

Thanks. Great. See you.