Aptamer Group PLC (APTA) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Warm welcome to the Aptamer Group webinar produced by Turner Pope Investments, which provides corporate broking services to listed companies as well as providing investment services to high net worth private investors and family offices. The 2 presenters from the biotechnology company, Aptamer Group today, who will be taking over shortly are Dr. Arron Tolley, the Chief Technical Officer; and Dr. Adam Hargreaves, Non-Executive Director, a warm welcome to you both. And before I let you take over the proceedings here, just want to let our audience know that we have got the questions that you submitted in to us. We will be asking that later, they're from investors, potential investors, business enthusiast of the firm. So we will be getting to that. Some of them were similar in terms of the topic. So we would club those ones together and also some of them will be answered in the presentation as well. So overall, we're going to be getting to all of them, hopefully, and that's the whole point of today. Some also, I must say are very detailed. People have taken real time and care with them, and we'll be doing the same as we go through one by one. Okay. So without further ado, let's get to the presentation.

Good afternoon, and welcome to a technical and commercial update from Aptamer Group. I'm Arron and I'm the current CEO and one of the co-founders of Aptamer Group. I'm going to give a short overview today of progress, and then we will move on to questions and answers with myself and Adam, one of our nonexecutive directors. So following on from a great presentation by my co-founder, David, over the last couple of weeks, we will cover here a brief overview of the market and technology and go on to a business update and then a technical update. So to explain who Aptamer Group are, we're a biotechnology company based in York. We are highly specialized, solving intractable problems for our partners. And over the years, we've partnered with 75% of the top 20 pharmaceutical companies and still do that today. We are set up to address a gap in the market for affinity ligands, which I'll come on to explain what they are later. We started trading in 2012, and we listed on AIM at the end of 2021. Our business is based on our optimal discovery engine or platform, which generates binders for partners across the life sciences industry, and we're recognized as a global key player in this market. So what is the affinity ligand market and what is this space? The best way to think of affinity ligands are to think of them like magnets that attract certain molecules. Affinity ligands are special, high-value molecules that selectively grab on to certain proteins or other molecules in a mixture, letting you separate, detect or deliver to them easily. So where is that useful? Well if you think of pregnancy tests, COVID tests, certain types of chemotherapies, these all rely on selectively binding molecules. And currently, antibodies, and these do a particular job as described. So what is the issue? Well, antibodies have been around since the 1970s. And antibodies do not work all of the time. They can take months or even years to generate and when they're generated, they can be expensive to make with things like batch-to-batch variability. So over the years, other platforms have been developed to address this need, starting with synthetic antibodies and moving on over the last 20 years or so to include Optimer and other variations. So I think of the affinity ligand market, as a continuum of different molecules, all serving a common goal of selective detection, separation or delivery. Optimer is one unique offering in this space. they differ from antibodies in that they're made from DNA or RNA, but they have multiple benefits over antibodies, such as broader target range than other affinity ligands that can be developed very rapidly. They have reduced immune-based side effects compared to antibodies when used to therapeutics and they're reliable and scalable to manufacture. So what are our USPs as a company. It's pretty straightforward really and can be distilled down into 3 key areas: a tailored approach, high throughput platform and know-how. So with our tailored approach, we can have multiple selection strategies, all optimized for different target types. High-throughput platform allows efficient processing and rapid discovery of new functional molecules. And in terms of know-how, we have a team of scientists internally with over 70 years of expertise in Optimers and related technologies. So how does the Optimer platform work? And how does our business work as an enabling technology? So on the left-hand side of the screen, we have effectively the 3 different target types that we can work with, so we've got small molecules, proteins and peptides and cells and viruses and various different tissues. We have our processes in the middle and we have 3 methods for each target class. Tailored selection processes, therefore, increase the chance of success. So we have a next-generation platform with strong differentiation from our competition. In terms of the application areas on the right-hand side, we can apply the technology to multiple different areas, such as therapeutics, delivery vehicles, focusing on the development of methods and technologies to deliver therapeutic agents such as drugs or gene therapies, bioprocessing, which refers to the use of biological systems to process or produce purified drug molecules or in fact, to removing purities from drug preparations and then diagnostics, which is the detection and identification of diseases through tests, aiding in early detection, monitoring and helping with treatment decisions in the clinic. So let's talk a little bit about our progress as a business. So the new Board took over in August, and I returned as a co-founder with the previous Chairman to refocus the business on our pre-IPO model. And that's based on 3 key areas: working with a lean cost base with a clear focus on technical progress and innovation and a clear focus on commercial revenue delivery. So are we where we wanted to be at this point in time? No, not quite, but we are making great progress. We've completed the cost base reset on time, September. And despite a highly inflationary environment, we have stuck to that number. We've delivered solid technical progress in our internal processes, improving speed and efficiency, alongside demonstrating the potential for our platform to be used for therapeutic delivery, allowing customer confidence due to our cash position, prior to the Board reshuffle around January '23, affected our revenue pipeline. And we've spent the past 12 months rebuilding confidence in the company and rebuilding our sales pipeline. So we've got around GBP 1.4 million of deals closed and in our production pipeline. We also have GBP 1.5 million of advanced stage pipeline deals in the process of closing negotiations. We're currently also manufacturing our therapeutic delivery technology with a proprietary drug cargo sent to us by a top 15 pharma company for their internal evaluation with a view to license in. It's worth at this point explaining our revenue recognition policy and how it approximates the work done on a project. So as a company, we can sign a deal worth GBP 0.5 million, GBP 1 million and be waiting for a customer to deliver the starting material and not be in a position to recognize that revenue instantly or immediately. And because of this signing a project does not mean instant revenue recognition. We can't start a project without materials being delivered to the labs, which in some cases, can take up to several months. Unfortunately, this can make our cash flow and revenue recognition lumpy. But it's important to note that a low revenue number at a single point in the year does not necessarily translate to a lack of commercial traction or a lack of interest in the technology. As you can hopefully see, we're still signing deals and building our pipeline. So in terms of our financial position, since the new Board came on, we took a hard look with regards to the cost base and took some difficult decisions. We've reduced the cost base from GBP 6.4 million to GBP 3.5 million, and we intend to review this on an ongoing basis. As a Board, we will continue to keep overheads and costs in focus to be more precise and to give more of an idea of our cash burn. Operational burn is around GBP 300,000 per month and our cash position as of the 31st of January 2024, was GBP 2.1 million. So this would imply a 7-month runway from January with no sales at all, and this would be a worst-case scenario. As discussed on the last slide, our production pipeline of signed deals is circa GBP 1.4 million, and our latest sales pipeline is circa GBP 1.5 million. But as explained on the last slide, timing for revenue recognition can be varied and is tied to some extent to customers' delivery of materials. So let's go on to commercial and technical progress, which is closely aligned to our outstanding technical developments. So we signed a deal worth GBP 0.5 million with a genetic medicines company for drug delivery and are well underway with that work. Based on successful work on another drug targeting project, a top 15 pharma company has requested that we develop optimal conjugates with their drug and send it to them for internal evaluation with a view to licensing. Another area of great progress is our immunohistochemistry, Optimer-Fc platform where we've recently signed a deal worth around $150,000. Both deals are fee-for-service with downstream licensing potential. We also have work that we undertook at least 18 months ago for a top 5 pharmaceutical company developing immunohistochemistry reagents that is currently under evaluation, again for potential licensing. I personally think that our record speaks for itself. We've repeated collaborations with major pharmaceutical partners. So despite the lulling confidence over the past 12 months and a difficult year, we have still maintained strong relationships with our top pharma partners with a total of 8 contracts with a top 5 company and 10 with a top 15 company. I personally think that this underscores their trust in our capabilities and the need for this technology. In addition to this, we've expanded our horizons and as we let the market know very recently that we've been working with Unilever since financial year '23. And one of the projects that we've been working on has made strides in novel applications within the fast-moving consumer goods sector. And I don't honestly think there are many companies of our size that has these kinds of deals in hand. We're also making significant process -- progress in our collaboration with Neuro-Bio with the development of Optimer binders for Alzheimer's diagnostics, advancing to the second phase of development. And moreover, an interesting point is we're protecting our commercially valuable innovations with patent applications underway with both Unilever and Neuro-Bio and we're protecting our internal developments with the Optimer-Fc technology by applying for patents to protect that position also. So a bit of an update on Optimer enabled drug delivery. So for the uninitiated targeted drug delivery is essential for things like gene therapy, chemotherapy and radiotherapy. But it's very challenging. So ensuring drugs reach the right place in the body without causing harm is a tough ask. So overcoming these challenges requires innovative approaches like Optimer targeted ligands. To one such area we've been working on recently, both internally and with partners is targeted liver delivery for gene therapies, and we've successfully developed binders to specific liver cells and conjugated a therapeutic payload and show in lab-based assay, successful and selective delivery of these therapeutic compounds. And as I said previously, the data has led to a request for further manufacture of this drug conjugate in shipping for evaluation with a top 15 pharma partner. It'd test these delivery systems in-house. Shipping is likely to occur over the next several weeks. And for us, this is a pivotal step as a business demonstrating the utility of our platform. So moving on to another example of an exemplification of our Optimer-Fc technology in the area of immunohistochemistry. So most people don't really know what immunohistochemistry is. However, it's something that's used in hospitals and research labs worldwide. So it's a vital tool valued at a staggering GBP 2.3 billion, and it actually serves as a gold standard of clinical diagnostics. The challenge here lies in finding antibodies that work effectively in IHC, which is short form for immunohistochemistry. So the lack of antibodies essentially underscores the urgent need for new and improved binders to meet this demand. And we would know this particularly well because one of our nonexecutive directors, Adam, who you'll hear from later, is a pathologist, and this is the primary tool of his trade. We've developed several molecules that work in immunohistochemistry previously. However, they did not fit into the existing workflow of pathology labs. So David, our CSO, who presented last week, and I developed Optimer-Fc, which is a hybrid between an antibody and an Optimer to bridge that gap. Optimer-Fc replaces one of the antibodies in an IHC experiment, giving the binding capability of the Optimer of the existing antibody workflow. So Optimer-Fc has shown promising performance in IHC and efforts are underway to expand our portfolio in this area with a view to potential binder out-licensing. Three key take-home messages on this slide. Firstly, the data was good enough for us to patent and protect our commercial position. Secondly, a top 5 pharmaceutical companies currently evaluating our developed binders in immunohistochemistry with a view to out-licensing. And thirdly, we are currently building a pipeline of commercial opportunities in this space. So lastly, Optimer+, what is it? Where does it fit in? So Optimer+ is our new platform and Optimer is a great tools. The vast majority of our achievements in targeted delivery and immunohistochemistry are Optimer based. Also, our recent success with Unilever and Neuro-Bio are also Optimer based. However, Optimer+ seeks to improve upon that platform and offer us more benefits and more advantages in the market. So Optimer+ is a scaffold with protein like binding analogs attached to the side of it. And it can be thought of as something very similar to DARPins and/or bicycles. It combines the benefits of Optimers in terms of flexibility, manufacturing and stability with the diverse target range and binding capabilities of protein-based affinity ligands. This development is a hybrid molecule that sits somewhere between an Optimer and an antibody. So you can see on the right-hand side of the slide, under Optimer+ that it has a very similar scaffold in shape to Optima, which is in the middle. However, you can also see the additional side chains sticking out, which add binding capabilities to the existing Optimer+ platform. So the key take homes in this slide are: firstly, this seeks to broaden applications and improve the performance over existing Optimer technology; secondly, it gives us a strong differentiation to enter into new markets and address new targets and gives us a proprietary position as a company. And we have around 30 granted patents protecting this particular position with all of the novel chemistries and manufacturing rights covered. So to summarize and recap on the key points. Our current focus revolves around short-term delivery of fee-for-service and pipeline conversion. We're actively collaborating with partners to promote the adoption of the Optimer, Optimer+ and Optimer-Fc technologies and we're making strides in the development of Optimer drug delivery vehicles, specifically targeting fibrotic liver conditions. In that connection, we've received an evaluation request from a top 15 pharma partner and are aiming to advance our drug delivery vehicle developments to the preclinical stage. Furthermore, progress is underway in our partnership with Neuro-Bio with plans to transition binders to a lateral flow diagnostic development partner in 2024. Our collaboration with Unilever is also progressing really, really well with a patent application expected in the current fiscal year. To ensure the financial sustainability of the business, we're maintaining and keeping a close eye on cost discipline across the business. And we're aiming for EBITDA and cash breakeven shortly. Lastly, and finally, the launch of our Optimer+ platform is anticipated to enhance our market share and facilitate the transition of our technology to customers. So I thank you very much for your time and for listening to the updated presentation, and I'll move over to take questions with Adam.

Okay. Thank you very, very much, indeed. So let's get stuck in here with the questions, not my questions, but those that were sent into us by you watching. So are you more bullish about Aptamer's prospects today than you were at the time of the last fund raise. What does the Board now consider to be a reasonable target date for it to become cash neutral?

Arron, do you want to lead with that one?

Yes, absolutely. In short, yes, I've personally seen good technical progress and progress with contracts over the past several months. And we've got GBP 1.5 million in signed deals currently in the production pipeline. We have requests for material from a top 15 pharma company to be delivered to conjugate their drug molecule to our delivery systems. So for me, it appears that we've reached a pivotal point for the company. But it is probably fair to say that this is not an overnight turnaround. It's a biotechnology company, and there's quite a lot to do in order to kind of turn the ship.

I can comment to that, yes. So I would say, I am bullish about this company. And the reasons for that are that as I tried to provide an independent objective view to the Board. And I would look at things like personnel, product and sales essentially. So what I've seen in this company in terms of personnel is there are a lot of high skill, high world staff here, so they're really eager to come in, they're really eager to crack on and they're really eager to make the business grow and develop. So that box is quite easy to take from that perspective. In terms of the product, over the last 6 months since we've kind of been in situ, I've seen that there were challenges when we started with the quality, with the repetition and the production of the physical product. So a lot of work was done within the company to improve those processes. That did take some time, and it was thorough. But it's allowed the Optimers themselves to get to a stage where they're much more likely to be specific and sensitive to the actual role that they're intended to produce so much more fit for purpose. So I think they've made real headway in terms of the product. In terms of sales, it's been -- I think, to be honest, with the shareholders, it's been quite a slow start since we came in, in the August, September time. We've done a lot of work around sales and marketing in terms of being imaginative with sales, trying to win back customers that were previously lost. And by being more confidence in the product, and I think the team are doing a really good job in delivering that third vital component of a business that's going to grow. So I'm bullish.

All right. You're bullish. Okay. So this person wants to know the trading statement in February mentioned a cash balance of GBP 2.1 million and a runway well into the full year of 2025. Do you still believe this to be the case? And how do you define well into the next financial year? Based on Aptamer's current cash position, scheduled laboratory throughput, what is your forward visibility?

I'll take that. It's a very long question. And I get that there's bound to be quite a lot of speculation on the cash position for the company. So obviously, with what we're allowed to say, I'll answer that question as best as I can. So the Board has reduced the cost base from around GBP 6.4 million to around GBP 3.5 million, and we intend to review the cost base on an ongoing basis and continue to keep overheads and costs in focus. That's one of the first things we're aiming to do. So to get to the meat of the question, our operational cash burn is around GBP 300,000 per month, and our cash position as of January was GBP 2.1 million. So this implies a 7-month runway with no sales at all. As discussed previously in the presentation, our production pipeline of signed deals is circa 1.4 million, and our current pipeline of advanced stage sales is at GBP 1.5 million.

Okay. Let's move on because this person is asking the last 12 months has seen the share price drop drastically. What does the Board mainly put this down to other than just where the last fundraising was priced?

Do you want me to take that one, Arron?

Yes. That's probably a good one for you to take.

Yes. So I'm quite interested in the AIM market in general. And what we've seen -- and we see this cyclically within the pharmaceutical and we can align ourselves to the pharmaceutical industry. There will be periods of high growth and there will be periods of recession. And during the periods of recession, pharmaceutical companies will reduce the R&D budgets. That has impacted this company. There's no doubt about that, they will reduce by a percentage, the amount of money that they're willing to spend externally. So we've had a storm, if you like, of a deflating pharmaceutical post-COVID market. I think it's become undervalued in a general sense and then deflated more than it would have ordinarily been had if we not had COVID. And we've also had a global recession. On the AIM market specifically, we've got high interest rates at the moment. That never helps investments in these types of markets. So shareholders have, in some ways, gone of flocks more to companies with revenue streams that are going to cover their overheads. So during more comfortable times, and we're seeing green shoots now in the U.S., and I'm hoping that the stocks here will follow during more comfortable times, investors are happier to put their investments into companies that offer medium- to longer-term inflection points. So John Tomorrow type deals, some would refer to those, although we would like to think that our licenses deals are very real. So we're in that period at the moment, both within the market and within the general pharmaceutical industry, where it's been difficult. And we've put things into place to manage that. So for example, sales and marketing in order to give more confidence to pharmaceutical companies in terms of their outsourcing, we've come up with imaginative strategies. Arron himself and David Bunka, our Chief Scientific Officer, have gone into roles that's pushed them right at the forefront of dealing with customers and dealing with these companies because we found that nothing beats customer satisfaction and likely hope for them to engage with the company than having these 2 on the front line. So that's a big part. And we've also said to pharmaceutical and other companies, if they're reticent to hand over large contracts in one go, we've said maybe there are other alternative ways we can look at your targets, maybe we could run a series of targets. Maybe there could be a success fee if we became successful with maybe 2 out of the 3 targets because Optimer won't necessarily target everything. So it's -- we're very cognizant of the market, and we're very cognizant in the cycle of -- the pharmaceutical cycle at present. And I would reassure shareholders that everything has been done possibly to mitigate that.

And I would pick up and add to a point that Adam just made. In terms of the kind of downturn in R&D spending in pharma. One of the critical things that we're able to do as a business is deliver products a lot more quickly to pharmaceutical companies than existing technology platforms. So actually, we believe that there is a particular angle for us to approach pharma in order to work with them in order to save money, and hopefully, in that kind of approach and we will be able to generate additional revenue in the business.

And so the commercial side of the business is very imaginative particularly with reflection to this. So that's very promising for me to see.

All right. And talking of revenue, this person picks up on the GBP 300,000 that you alluded to earlier. So only having recognized GBP 300,000 in revenue at the last trading update means that big pharma are not buying your products or that the technology is a failure.

Yes, that's a particularly harsh question, but it's a fair one, given the current situation Yes, it's a good one. Not to be too formulaic in my response, but we have relationships, as we've said many times in our presentations, we're 75% of the top 20 pharma companies globally. And we are still actively engaging in projects with them. I mean it was recently announced in the trading update, and I mentioned it a moment ago, that we have a top 15 leading pharma company evaluating our drug delivery technology off the back of a piece of paid work. We also have a top 5 pharma company evaluating our immunohistochemistry technology, again, off the back of a piece of paid work. We have 1.4 million of signed deals in the pipeline waiting to go through to our production line. We have GBP 1.5 million in the sales pipeline. I think the issue here is a question of timing and revenue recognition. So for us as a business, we can sign GBP 1.5 million of revenue but not recognize that revenue until it passes through production. And there are a multitude of different things that can cause problems in that area. For example, the delivery of targets for us to initiate our work on is one area where we're kind of at the behest of the customers, the customer has to send us material to start our production run. And if the customer is having problems delivering or manufacturing that product or there is a delay on that, then that has a knock-on effect on our ability to recognize that revenue. But to be very clear, that does not mean that we are not signing deals and that we are not still actively engaged with all of our pharma customers.

And this feeds into the longer-term licensing opportunities. We can validate Optimers to a level in-house. It's a relatively small company. I think the technology within this company outstrips the size that you might imagine it to be. But they can be validated to a certain extent. And then at some point, we have to handle -- we don't have a GBP 20 million budget. So we can't run, for example, pharmaceuticals full packages, submission packages to hand over. We have to hand over a prospect and that will have to undergo tests within the partners that are working on it. And although we strike a balance between encouraging them to do it as swiftly as possible, we are, we do recognize the fact that you can be to push it and getting to do it too quickly. I avoid some of these big companies, they contact, they take their time. So you do have to have a bit of patience from that side. But we do as much as we can, and we press a peddle as much as we feel is politically expedient to do so.

All right, patience is a virtue, as they say. This 1 is quite detailed, so I'll take my time with this one, but they have sort of several questions in one really with this one. So regarding the collaboration with Neuro-Bio on developing a diagnostic test for early detection of Alzheimer's is the work conducted by APTA 100% funded by you. And if so, does that mean you will own 100% of any intellectual property arising from the development of a lateral flow test or biosensor assays, looking further ahead, they want to know, can you visit a situation where you were collaborating to develop therapeutics rather than just diagnostic tests?

Yes, I can take that one. So to be clear, no, it is not 100% funded by us. We're getting paid for the work that we've done with Neuro-Bio. Typically, in our business model, we do fee-for-service, and we own the intellectual property, which enables us to then leverage a licensing deal. In this situation with Neuro-Bio, we have negotiated a rather healthy licensing arrangement on any tests that are developed and sold using our Optimers. With regards to the therapeutics, no, we're not directly going to develop therapeutics for Neuro-Bio. They have their own therapeutic pipeline. But we are already developing our own pipeline in drug delivery with multiple different pharmaceutical companies, as I mentioned earlier.

This one mentions Unilever. So regarding your long-standing collaboration with Unilever. Earlier this month, you announced this was expanding into looking at applications for Optimers in the FMCG sector. Could you provide a bit more color regarding this development. For example, is it likely to include self-administered tests such as pregnancy test or fertility test monitoring where Unilever already have established expertise and brands or will include new areas beyond their proven expertise.

So I can say, unfortunately, that's a great question. We were very fortunate that Unilever would allow Aptamer Group to name them in an RNS. By the same token, we would have to respect very tight confidentiality boundaries with that. So we would not want to put ourselves in a position to speculate on those consumer goods that were announced beyond the wording that was announced in the RNS. But we are -- Arron will talk about this, a patent is being worked on, and that's been worked on with speed and with enthusiasm.

Absolutely. I think what I will say to push that a little bit further and give some more reassurance is that the data that's been generated with our Optimers in Unilever's lab is patentable data. And we are patenting that data as you do with all valuable technologies to protect our commercial position. So we anticipate that the patents will be submitted by the end of June, even if not earlier. And I will also say that there are further developments progressing between ourselves and Unilever on the basis of the successful projects.

All right. And this investor is going back to the financials. So is the current half year continuing to develop along the lines anticipated in the trading update Aptamer released on the 5th of February 2024. Has a date been set yet for the publication of your interim results. Last year, they were on the 14th of March 2023.

Yes, the interims are due before the end of March, and that will contain updates announced in any trading update that we put out or we have put out along with any further updates that have occurred since the start of February. I think that's a fairly short answer to that question.

And I think -- yes, I think what component of the question was continued along the same lines. If this -- as well as in the material update that was provided in January, if anything out as a reason that we feel is announceable, that will -- in terms of sales or contracts, et cetera, an obvious or convenient place for to go would be in this interim report.

All right. Okay. So interim results before the end of March, right?

Yes.

All right. Let's move on. Okay. This one is about saturation of the market itself. So is the international Optimers space now starting to fill somewhat crowded is Optimer+ the group's will value-added differentiator that conditional output is not squeezed by heightening price competition going forward. And what is the expected launch date for Optimer+?

That's a very good question. There are more people in the Optimer space at the moment. There's no secret there. and we fully acknowledge that. But they don't have our USPs, our experience and quite frankly, our leadership position in the market. So Optimer+ is a development that we've been working on for several years and it's to keep ourselves at the forefront of the technology. And in the presentation, it was briefly described that this is a hybrid technology between an -- somewhere between an antibody and an Aptamer. And we're using this to further differentiate ourselves from our competition. We're already talking to partners in life sciences to trial list within specific use areas, and we have a couple of active projects that are outlined. We look for a full market launch in financial year '25. It's key to point out that we have both an Optimer platform and the Optimer+ platform and each has its own unique properties and advantages in the field of affinity ligands.

All right. We're going to talk about ligands now, actually, because -- yes.

I was just going to come on to add to that point in terms of the Optimer+ technology platform. It's a very exciting prospect for us to have that. It's -- the scaffold for itself was acquired a period of time ago from another company, which has had a lot of investment put in by a large Japanese company that no longer wanted to pursue pharmaceuticals as part of its remit. So that has been -- and I can say this -- I am not saying that I can say this independently, the level of science in this team is such that they've been able to take that, and they've been able to modify it, make it fit for manufacturing and present it in a way that it can be directed as a direct Optimer competition. And there are several advantages. One of the main ones really is a time of production. So the time of production can be reduced to somewhere maybe 3 or 4 months down to as little as a month in terms of producing an Optimer+. So we're really keen to get customers trialing this and to move this technology forward because I think for a lot of applications, it holds a lot of promise.

All right. And this is the last question, actually. And this person is asking about a breakthrough announcement, and you mentioned the ligand space. That's what we're going to be talking about now because this person says, the market has been looking for Optimer technology to deliver some sort of breakthrough announcement in the affinity ligand space. This would, of course, highlight the value being created by key sector players like Aptamer Group. Is it sensible to anticipate such news in the coming year or 2?

It's a good question. And I think if people watched the kind of news recently that would have noticed a very significant deal that has just been made very recently by a company called Astellas and Iveric, where they just added $6 billion for a company with a lead asset, which is an RNA Aptamer drug. I think, Adam if you've got any additional comments to make?

Well, I thought the question is was referring to in terms of -- because when we get these announcements, other companies will become more cognizant of Optimers in general. That was a particularly large announcement to make. And it's perfectly -- the target of that specific drug is perfectly doable for this group. Obviously, in that case, that drug was in clinical trials, and we're not a clinical stage biotechnology company. We're a relatively small AIM biotechnology company. We don't have the resources to carry it through, obviously, to that level of development, but that doesn't mean that we can't actually -- we could develop a wholly-owned product like that and then partner with a third party in order for that to be developed. So to an extent, the customers will come to us with a target in mind, and that will be a window for licensing opportunities. And whenever they come, we then we take and the intellectual property within this company is very vast. There's also opportunities where we have approached people and said we could produce targets to X, Y, Z and that can lead to opportunities as well. When money -- when we're in the pharmaceutical peaks, that's much easier to achieve. And when R&D budgets have been cut, we have to work harder to do that. But we still work very hard in order to do that. But we come up with -- Arron and myself, Dave, everybody else is involved with the site. We've got too many ideas on a daily basis, keeping us up at night of what we could target. We don't hold the outsourcing per strings. So we can do is trying to convince people to bear with us.

That's kind of the fundamental reason for our model as it stands where we are partnering with big pharma companies to offer our services for drug delivery, which enables us to play in the space of therapeutics with the potential large upside without the risk associated with traditional drug development.

Well that is a wrap. Thank you both very much, Dr. Arron Tolley, the Chief Technical Officer; and Dr. Adam Hargreaves, the Non-Executive Director of the company. And thank you as well for sending in all these questions as well, detailed, well research, we really appreciate that. So hopefully, you got the answers you were looking for. And if you didn't get the chance to join us for this live webinar, then you can find this on the Turner Pope Investments website in the webinar section as well, so you can watch at your leisure. Thank you. Goodbye.