Arafura Rare Earths Limited (ARU) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Are there any other questions from the floor related to this resolution? Online?

Nothing.

Okay. So there being no further discussion, I'll put the resolution to a poll, which will now be taken. Regarding the procedure for the poll, I direct that a poll be taken in respect of all resolutions. Persons entitled to vote on this poll are all shareholders, corporate representatives, and attorneys of shareholders and proxy holders who hold a yellow voting card. If you appear in one or more of those capacities, you will be issued with as many yellow voting cards as you have separate capacities. If there are any aspects regarding the voting on which you are uncertain, please do not hesitate to ask the share registry staff who are circulating the ballot boxes. Shareholders and proxy holders are now asked to complete the ballot paper. A representative from the share registry will then collect the papers and will be verified against the register. Please indicate by raising your hand if you require more time to [indiscernible] and lodge your vote. [Voting]

Anyone left in the room? So it appears that it is now completed. So I declare the poll closed, and the results of the poll will be announced to the ASX following the meeting. So ladies and gentlemen, that brings us to the end of the formal business of the meeting. Thank you for your attendance today, and thank you for your support as a shareholder. I now declare this meeting closed at 11:39 a.m. Darryl will now provide an update to shareholders on the company's activities.

So again, thank you for everyone that's here in person and online, and thank you again for your long-term support. I'm going to give you a bit of an update and normally, we give you a bit of an update at our AGM and also at our quarterly. Now we're going to release our quarterly next week. So I'm going to give you a bit more of a comprehensive update, give us that. But before I do, I just want to recognize and thank Mark Southey, who's been our Chair for 8 years. When Mark became Chair, the value of the company is $30 million. So it's 1/3 of what it is today. We didn't really have a differentiation strategy. We didn't have a funding strategy. And Mark very methodically sought out to strengthen the Board, strengthen the management team. And not only did he perform as a Chair, but Mark and his project expertise also not just help get us to a FID but help make sure that from a project execution perspective, we're ready to deliver what is a complex and large project. So Mark, I just want to thank you on behalf of the Board, on behalf of the company, but also personally. Mark's always been available and has offered a lot of counsel. We will miss you, and we wish you the very, very best. I also want to thank Peter Sherrington. Peter has been our CFO for nearly 18 years. If you look globally, we are different to pretty much every other rare earths project because we've gone ore-to-oxide. And you've got to ask the question, why have the others not done that? The others have not done that because it was very difficult to get funding all the way to an oxide. Normally the CFO stops you from doing that. Peter not only stopped us from doing that. We came up with a strategy to do it, and he has delivered on that strategy. Thank you, Peter, for the strategic insight. But this has also come at personal cost as well. Something like this just doesn't happen because it's a great idea. If you're in on a Friday night, who do you see in the office? Peter. In on a weekend, who do you see in the office? Peter. Peter is the guy that's also doing calls into Europe. So this did not just happen because it's a great idea and its commitment. It came with sacrifice. So Peter, I just want to recognize you for that. We would not be here today if it was not for Peter's, I sometimes say tenacity, sometimes I say stubbornness. I'd like to welcome Ian. Since Ian's come on the Board, Ian spent a lot of time understanding the company, understanding the rare earth sector. It says something about the strength of the Board, the bench strength of the Board when you go internally and externally for a very critical period for this organization and the best candidate is Ian. So Ian, thank you and very much look forward to working with you in your new capacity. All right. So let me jump into a bit of an update. Please note our standard disclaimer slide. So the last 12 months has felt like 3 years. So let's just quickly go through what has been achieved. So we secured $200 million with the National Reconstruction Fund Corporation. We were only the second project to secure funding since the creation of the NRFC, and we are the most significant. We secured EUR 50 million through the German Raw Material Fund. And again, we were the second project to have secured that with the first being a German project. We secured USD 100 million with Export Finance Australia, the first project to ever secure equity from EFA. When you're the first or the second, again, this just doesn't happen except with a lot of effort. As you know, we got USD 300 million of interest from the U.S. EXIM Bank of debt, and that's on top of the debt stack that we need as part of our fully funded solution. Last October, we were designated as a priority project 1 of under the US-Australian Critical Minerals Framework. That just doesn't happen. We're the first project to be declared a significant project with the Northern Territory. From an offtake perspective, we need to have 80% of our offtakes locked in by the time of debt drawdown to about 12 months. You can see if you add up the numbers, we're actually above 80%. So we're in a very, very good place. Just mindful that we're switching volumes as much as we can from the Asian Metals index to the independent and transparent seaborne index. That was only created 12 months ago. 12 months ago, we will end up somewhere between 45% and 55% of our volumes on this new index. No way in the world that I see would be able to get that far on a new index that was only created 12 months ago. And more recently, in May, we mentioned as part of the critical minerals strategic reserve and again, the first to receive an offtake under the Australian government's new strategic reserve. That then gave us the confidence to call FID on the 21st of May. We said we would start construction 4 months later, and we started construction in September. So it really has been an incredible year. If I just move on to the next slide. We recently had groundbreaking that Mark referred to a couple of weeks ago. And what was very prevalent with the amount of support that we have and the significance. So from the traditional owners, traditional owners the Anmatjere people, nearly 500 people, 60 people turned up. So they have been long waiting for this project to get up as well. So we very much appreciate their support, and we do not take it for granted. We had federal members turn up, including the Resource Minister, Minister King, and we had the Tourism and Trade Minister and Senator Don Farrell turn up as well. And we had quite a contingent from the Northern Territory government. So we had the Chief Minister, Lia Finocchiaro turn up, the Mining Minister as well as the Treasurer. So very well supported. Over 120 people came to what was quite a remote site with one of our customers traveling 35 hours one way to get there. So the support was very, very evident at groundbreaking. But what was also recognized, this is a project. This is the largest mining investment ever in the NT. It is Australia's first ore-to-oxide project, and it is of global significance where we will be feeding rare earths into 4 of the 5 manufacturing global powerhouses outside of China. Let's move to the next slide. Now construction. So we announced that, as I mentioned on the 21st of May, the first thing that we did was just reestablished the site, get the camp facilities up and running, commissioned the water pipeline, et cetera. The first construction was getting site access off the Stuart Highway. So the first main contract that we will be awarding in a matter of weeks is the bulk earthworks and you need to bring heavy equipment off the Stuart Highway on site. So that's why that was the first works. We had put out to tender over $700 million. We have done that and Ron a little bit to your question, but I'll answer it later. We said over a year ago, that we would go out to competitive tender, and that's why there's a 4-month gap between announcing FID and starting construction. We've put out over $700 million of tender to get competitive pricing, but you always need time to negotiate. So that's why we're pushing this up rapidly to get the best possible pricing for both equipment and services. We have also secured long lead items as part of early works, and we are awarding in a matter of weeks some additional long lead items to protect our schedule. I just move to the next slide. I mentioned it previously. So the last, if you look at the last 18 months, we have gone from a management team, a study team to an experienced execution team. And from a Board perspective, we have bolstered the Board in terms of operational and project expertise. So we are ready. And then late last year, we appointed Hatch EPCM for 2 reasons. Their knowledge around the hydromet circuit, I think, is second to none. But we also, there's a continuity of accountability and ownership by giving them the EPCM when they own the engineering. So we've got accountability all the way from engineering all the way into commissioning. Next slide. So just some pictures. So the top pictures on the top there to the left is the works around the Stuart Highway. Again, that's safe access to site off the Stuart Highway. And then you can see we've got camp facilities for around 250 people that have been reinstated. We actually got people in those facilities today. All right. So that's all great, right? So much has been achieved in the last 12 months. We finally got into construction, but you don't see it in our share price. And this has been frustrating to us as it has no doubt to many of you. If you look at the graph, and we are the light blue line on the graph. So we have moved with the general rare earth sector. So market tensions come off the rare earth sector, which has hurt us and has hurt others in the rare earth sector, including the producers, Mountain Pass and Lynas as well. The 2 exceptions that you can see on the graph there is one, Linian that's moving to the concentrate production at the end of this calendar year. And then the second one is Meteoric that is subject to a takeover from Lynas. So we've moved with the rest of the sector. It doesn't make sense given that the structural challenges of having a reliable source of rare earth is the same today as it was a year ago as it was 2 years ago. So we would like to think that disconnect in the market will be corrected. However, what can we do about that? There are 3 things that we are doing and we will continue to do. So one, as already mentioned, delivering this project. That is the thing that will deliver more shareholder value than anything else. As Ian said, this is a difficult project in a remote area. It requires 100% of our focus to pull it off. So this is our #1 priority. This is the #1 way we deliver long-term shareholder value. The second thing that we are doing is getting in front of new and existing investors and just reminding why we're different. We're an alternative supply chain because we produce oxide. We on a very large ore body and at the bottom of the cost curve, and we're the only ore-to-oxide project globally that is in construction. So as attention turns back to the market, that will be driven by some macroeconomic catalyst, we get a disproportionate benefit from that. But the third thing is whilst Nolans Phase 1 has to be our primary focus, the value of the company is more than Nolans Phase 1. We've got growth options that I will talk to later that we've previously shared. So this, we share your frustration. We think it is a disconnect in the market. Our market cap equals the amount of money we've got to make, which is to say ridiculous. I'm not the financial adviser, as a person speaking here. But clearly, there is a disconnect. The supply issues in the market have not been addressed. It will take years to address them. So you can see that there will have to be some catalysts that will bring market attention back. Let me move on. So when the market reacts, why does it react so strongly when the market sees that there's a potential supply disruption. This slide shows that you can't make electronics, EVs, wind turbines, robotics, military equipment without rare earths. You look at the demand drivers for rare earth, they are strong for at least the next 3 decades. What other commodity can you say that about. But I would argue there's another emerging thing here. You get different supply-demand curves from different companies, and they're very hard to predict. What's easier to predict is the signs of a structural supply deficit. So if you look at the demand drivers, so EVs and robotics as an example, the demand on those thematics is increasing. Robotics particularly is not a linear demand curve. It is exponential. That tends to lead to an underrepresentation of a growth in demand. And then you look at the supply side. The supply side is based on projects coming online in time frames that have never been delivered historically. So if the supply is not going to come online as quickly and demand is increasing and continues to increase. This is why we think there are signs of a supply structural deficit. Then you say, well, what happens then? We will move into a very different pricing regime. Why do I say that? If you look at the biggest driver of rare earth demand, it's currently EVs will ultimately become robotics. What's the alternative to a rare earth magnet in EVs, it's a synchronous induction. If you go with that, you need a battery that's 15% to 20% bigger. That's at least another $1,000 per car to give you the range. How much does rare earth cost per electric vehicle traction about $110. So you can see from a substitution risk, there is a lot of headroom on the current pricing before you have commercial substitution risk on the primary rare earths driver. Let me move to the next slide. You have supported, many of you have supported us for many years, but you might not, if you look at all the rare earth projects globally, I would contend there is none that have same amount of government, multi-government support that we've got. If you look at the debt side, export credit agency support, we've got debt from Australia, Canada, Korea, Germany, U.S. In terms of equity, we've got equity from the German government, from the Australian government. We're dealing with allied countries that have bilateral policies. And in terms of offtake, we've got offtake under the Australian government strategic reserve. We've got offtake going into Korea, Germany, actually Europe, U.S. and more recently, India. If you look at the producers, the 2 producers, Mountain Pass are largely locked into the U.S. If you look at Lynas, largely locked into Japan. We have got supply going into 4 out of the 5 global manufacturing powerhouses outside of China. No one else has that. So we've got a lot of support to progress us through execution. This is the price curve. So one of the, again, we talked about the share price. The share price has been a disconnect to the NdPr price. Normally, the 2 correlated and you would expect that. So since the U.S. government put in support for Mountain Pass with a floor price of USD 110, you can see that the Asian metals index pricing has been somewhat range down between $100 and $120. So what the U.S. has done has been a very effective tool that is essentially approximately double the price of, the other curve here in the light blue gray is the seaborne independent transparent index of Benchmark Minerals Intelligence, which we see very deliberately putting our volumes on. You can see that the 2 have tended to move within $10 a kilo of each other. But the reason we are pushing to get as much volumes onto this independent index is so that investors yourselves can be confident that pricing will only be driven by market fundamentals, and that's why it's so important to us. Let me move on. So I know there's been quite a few questions from shareholders about funding. When does the funding become available? Are we truly fully funded? So let me talk to that for a minute. On the right-hand side of this curve, you can see that we have got funding we need to build the plant and the mine, capital to run it until first net cash flow, but also financing costs. So when we talk about funding, it's for everything that gets us to a net cash flow position with some completion support. You look on the left-hand side, how funding becomes available. So today, in U.S. dollar terms, we have just under USD 600 million sitting in the bank that this is at the end of June that's enabled us to start construction. When we get contractual close, the contractual close in layman speak is when we have our 9 lenders signed on the dotted line and the agreements become binding. When that happens, that allows us to pull in funding from EFA, German Raw Materials Fund and the National Reconstruction Fund Corporation, which is just under USD 300 million. In terms of contractual close, this is a very important market indicator. Whilst we don't need the money today, all of our lenders are ready to go. And with the one that isn't there yet, we're working through the 2 matters, which is going through their internal corporate process. We like to think relative close to. In terms of the debt, the USD 775 million, we will only draw that down when we have used the equity and the convertible note. For obvious reasons, we don't want to incur interest until we need to. We expect to get to that point towards the back end of next calendar year. That debt has conditions, those conditions precedent customary. There's nothing peculiar or different to what you typically expect for that debt. At contractual close, we also get access to the cost overrun facility. And then as we move into ramp-up, we get access to the standby liquidity facility of USD 200 million. So this is how the debt and how the funding unravels, and we are on track to unlock that debt as we expect to and as we need to. Let me just close, let me just talk on the on the growth optionality. So we sit on a very large ore body, low cost. And the reality is it's not fully discovered. So you only drill down to 400 meters and it goes beyond 400 meters and the first 200 meters gives us a 38-year mine life. And power pricing you've seen has doubled over the last 18 months or so. The pricing for heavy rare earths has increased even more so. Consequently, we've had a study underway to look at additional recovery of heavy rare earths and some NdPr in the waste stream. As mentioned previously, we've also been doing pilot studies in ion exchange. Those pilot studies to us some time to be complete. We look forward to sharing with you in half 1 of next year the results of those studies. But to date, they have looked very promising. We've previously spoken about a central processing hub, and we're originally going to do that as part of Phase 2, but we are bringing that forward. That gives us an additional growth trajectory, but it also helps unlock other rare earth projects because they only need a fraction of capital that we've needed. And then we've also previously spoke about Phase 2. As we get Phase 1 underway, we will progress with engineering and approvals for Phase 2 and Phase 2 is up to 10,000 tonnes per annum. And just to put that into scale, if you look at Lynas production today, it's the order of 7,000 tonnes per annum. So we will, we are globally significant with Phase 1, but we build on that for Phase 2. So let me just conclude with a bit of a summary. So again, we're the only project globally ore-to-oxide that is in construction that can provide an alternative source of rare earth oxide. So a very large high-grade, low-cost ore body. And the reason it's low cost, produce sulphuric acid as a byproduct credit. We've got strong ESG credentials and it's an important part of the debt requirements. We are fully funded, subject to meeting customary CPs. Strategic project. We feed offtake into 4 out of 5 global manufacturing houses. And as we do those things, we would like to think that the value we pushed through the funding risk. And now as we push through the project execution risk, that should lead to a re-rating. You don't have to be a rocket science to look at the sort of key multiples that the producers are getting to what we should get as we push through the project execution risk. Now let me stop there. What I'd like to do is 2 questions that we haven't, that we didn't address fully in the formal part of meeting. So let me address them, and then I'm going to hand over to Catherine for any questions.

So you asked a question about further dilution. So as we showed in the graph, we have a fully funded solution based on our CapEx estimate, based on working capital, et cetera. The million dollar question is CapEx pressures, right? So projects like this have CapEx pressures. So the question is what are we doing about those CapEx pressures. And we have set ourselves up for the last 18 months to give us the best chance to contain those CapEx pressures. So we said more than a year ago, before we release contracts, we would go out to competitive tender, which we have and are doing. We have looked at our engineering specs and made sure that we're not doing anything that reduces our competitive tender. We've looked at the scope of the work, and we've carved it up to get the most competition in responses, and we're going broadly globally to all the different, I'm going to call it low-cost countries to get the best possible outcome, and we've gone out early. So we, if you look at the Hatch team, they've done, I think, a remarkable job of ramping up the engineering and the procurement effort and we've gone out early so that if we get response that we don't like, we've got time to negotiate and get the price down. So I feel like we're doing everything we can at this point to contain CapEx pressures. And then your name, sorry. Sorry. And your question was around, this is the lay nonfinance person speaking, really around the replenish capacity of the 15%. Let me make a couple of comments, but then I might throw the ball to Peter. We had, when we had the EGM, so 2 points. When we had the EGM back in May, we replenished that 15% capacity that applies for this period. And with the resolutions today around EFA, National Reconstruction Fund Corporation, they don't come out of that capacity because the resolution being passed today. So as it exists today, we've got that capacity. Peter, do you have any other comments to make on that?

No, I think that's probably what I said. I'm not sure we've understood the question correctly, but that's how I respond.

Did we understand your question correctly, Harry?

Yes. But the issue of further dilution is...

Yes. So which is I think a little bit back to Ron's question. And look, I would, let me make 2 comments. So just to reiterate the point, we are very, very conscious of CapEx pressures. And I think we've set ourselves up in the last 18 months to mitigate that as best we can and share that. But the second one I just want to remind you of, and this is just to indicate that this is top of mind for us, right? So we work for the owners of the company, which is the shareholders. If you look at the funding structure, we maxed out on debt. We went as far as we could on debt. You know why we did that, Harry? Dilution. The problem or the choice that we have, we work with an oxide strategy. This differentiates us to everyone else. The downside of it is you need more funding. So we can be an alternative source of rare earth oxide to China. If you don't go to oxide, you don't have that ability. They're depending on someone. We're not dependent on anyone else. That's why we've got so much government support. The problem with that strategy is you need more money. That means we needed to raise equity. But what we've done is we maxed out on debt in order to minimize the equity. But this is an essential part of the strategy, which I would like to think as we deliver on it, you will see in time how that differentiates us against other rare earths projects. But the downside is we needed to raise more money.

[indiscernible].

Are there any other questions? I'm looking at you, Catherine.

Yes, we do have other questions. So we're ready to move on. I will first read out the questions that we received prior to the meeting. So a lot of it we've actually addressed in the presentation, but there are still a few that we have left to address separately. So the first one comes from Diane. Given the scale of dilution associated with financing Nolans, has the Board considered mechanisms for the economic participation of existing shareholders such as loyalty rights, warrant options, preferential participation in future capital raises, while ensuring the ordinary shares retain full exposure to any future increase in [indiscernible].

Yes. So I would just, I'll answer that by commenting on 2 things. Firstly, we need to minimize dilution, right? And hence, we spoke at some length about how we're mitigating CapEx pressures. But the second bit is if you look at the capital raise that we've done that we needed to do to get to a fully funded solution, if you look at when they were done, they were done deliberately to minimize dilution. But secondly, just secondly, every one of them, as we brought in new investors, we made sure that existing shareholders have the ability to participate on the same terms. Now if you start to provide terms for existing shareholders, you lose the ability to bring in new investors. And then once they're on, they want to create the same. So we've made a point in every raise that we've done to make sure that existing shareholders can participate on essentially the same terms.

The next one is from [indiscernible] from Nielsen. Some you answered as part of your presentation, but the remaining one is what does the Board identify as the primary drivers behind our stock trading at such a discount relative to our peers' value by being fully funded under active construction and the only oxide rare earth mine outside China that is coming on stream over the next 3 years. Are our long-term cornerstone investors considering going into the market, given our share price, and increasing their stake and averaging the purchase price down or attracting new long-term investments at severely discounted levels? And the majority of them bought in at $0.28 and $0.26 capital raise. I'll summarize the other questions. So what proactive steps are we taking to [indiscernible]?

Let me try to remember all those questions, Heath. So firstly, the cornerstone investors and, Heath, correctly pointed out, they've come in at a share price that's much higher than where we are today. They would not have done that if they did not think that long-term value is beyond that. With the cornerstone investors that we have pulled in, we want quality investors that don't trade, but they come in and stick with us. So they're not the type to buy and sell on market. But you should take some level of confidence that because they've come in at a higher level, because they've done their homework and their due diligence, you should take some confidence that they come in at a higher level. Heath, you made the comment that we've dropped in value compared to our peers. I showed the graph, that's actually not the case. We've actually dropped very similar to our peers, including Mountain Pass and the 2 only producers. So this is happening across the sector. But there are things that we can and are doing, and that is making sure with existing and new investors when the attention turns to the market, they do see us as differentiated. They do see us as having funding risk behind us, and we're actively working with investors both here and overseas to realize that. But the reality is they will generally only kick in when the market attention comes back.

Are what are we doing to unlock that value? The best way for the company is to build the project. That's what we do. We've got the money, we've got the team, build the project, hit the milestones, deliver production, and that's where you get your re-rating. You look at all companies that have gone through the construction phase, you get that revaluation as you deliver on your key milestones.

I just want to share something that reinforces Ian's point. Could you go back to the share price slide, if you don't mind. You see Ian's point. I've talked about Lindian, which is the top green line there. So they've come down recently, but they're in construction. So as they hit their construction timelines, you see that reflected in the share price. That's why, we've got to keep the main thing. The main thing is delivering Phase 1 is going to require everything that we've got. It's not a simple project.

The other question from Heath that we haven't quite addressed is around consolidation. He mentioned a few times over the past 2 years where the Board has said they're looking at it, why not do it? You now have nearly 7 million shares on issue, which the short-term trade.

Yes. It's a good question. So firstly, there's been investors coming, which always makes a little bit difficult. Like I said before, this is an open question for us. There is no decision. To do it, there needs to be a material reason to do it. And there could be a number. And I just want to share one example is our volumes into the U.S. have increased. We're now supplying 850 tonnes into the U.S. and into what they call Project Volt, which is really something that the U.S. has set up to, I'm going to call it, stockpile critical minerals. And to my knowledge, we're the first supply into that. So we're becoming more and more relevant to the U.S. We want to get more long quality U.S. investors on our register. With some institutions, they require the stock price to be over $1. That has not been a barrier to date. But if that were to become a barrier to bring in long quality U.S. investors, that would be an example of why we would do the consolidation. So just coming back to Heath's question, Catherine. So it is an open question, but we'll only do it if it actually unlocks shareholder value. Harry, I'm mindful, we've taken a few questions from Heath, and the first one from you. You said 2 more.

First one was -- the questions were answered. The second one was you indicated that you've got $700 million there for construction. Quotes coming in and you're giving yourself time. Are those quotes within the range that you had? Or are you having to look at using contingency to meet those commitments? The reassurance we need those numbers are in the right ballpark. It's been prepared some time ago, a lot's happened. So we need to see that. The other question that came out of those aspects was in relation to in the future, obviously going to need further funds for Phase 2 and that's when the opportunity arises for the Board to recognize the long-term shareholders and perhaps has been suggested to come in with some preferential arrangements with our shareholders long term. That's sort of the second question extended from one of the answers.

So just on your first one, I just want to clarify. So we have in the bank just under $600 million. We've put out tenders for $700 million a few weeks ago. And often, you've got to provide anywhere up to 8 weeks for these tenders. So it's early days. I can't really answer your question on any indications at this point. All I can say is very early phase is what we're doing to maximize pressure to contain CapEx. On your second question around Phase 2, look, our intention is with Phase 2, not to start constructing Phase 2 when we've got Phase 1 up and running, and we understand how to debottleneck Phase 1 to get the best out of it, which then gives us capital efficiencies that we can factor into Phase 2. If you look at the pricing of NdPr, if you look at our expected cost of production, net of the byproduct credits like $32 a kilo. It's a very high-margin business. If we do Phase 2 and can always change. If we do Phase 2 and we intend to, I don't see us needing to raise equity. This thing is up and running, it generates significant cash. Any other questions in the broader room?

Darryl, just the skyrocketing rocketing diesel prices, is that being factored in?

Yes. So the world is a turbulent place. So let me, we've done a sensitivity on that. So diesel prices increased by 50%, that adds about 5% to our total CapEx. So that kind of, if you like, quantifies, I think, the question you're asking. Bulk earthworks and quite a significant cost driver of bulk earthworks is diesel. But it's not, in total project terms, I think it's not significant, but it's [indiscernible].

Is the chemistry and chemical engineering well proven, and do we have the capability in Australia compared to clay production?

Yes. So would you make the comparison to clay is simpler, but I wouldn't say it's proven, right? So they've still got to do pilot testing to prove it. We spent 15 years testing on the pilot plant, looking at different parts of the ore body. If you look at each step of the process, it is not new. Each step is not new, and we have thoroughly tested it. We've got very strong internal expertise in this space. In fact, one of our longest-term employees, [ Dr. Alex Ali ], has been all over this for nearly 20 years. We've got Hatch that gives us a lot of confidence. A lot of the complexity in our process is in a hydromet circuit and this is where Hatch is particularly strong. So I'd like to think we've got strong capability and capacity here. Olympic Dam. Olympic Dam is not, it is probably more similarities to what we're building than any other mining processing plant in Australia. And the challenge is not managing each part of the process plant as a silo. It's how you bring it all together. And there is a few things that we have to get right. And there's one of those few things that we've got a natural advantage over. So firstly, Lynas went through this. It took them 3 years. We've looked at what did and didn't work. We factored that into our flow sheet and our equipment design. The 3 things that get nailed. One is around maintenance, predictive maintenance. You can't have a stable plant if it's breaking down. It sounds pretty basic. But if you look at the last 10 years, predictive maintenance with AI has just improved remarkably. The second thing is getting the right team capability and culture where the team can solve complex problems together. When you have a problem on a complex plant, no one person is going to solve it. You need people, different disciplines to work together to solve it. So that's really important. But the third thing is the operating technologies. So how you integrate the whole plant, how you speed up the learning curve. So in the past, pace of learning is based on how you transfer knowledge from one shift to another. But now with digital twins, AI, you can speed that up. So just as an example, for solvent extraction typically takes 6 weeks to do a cycle. With AI, you can bring that down to less than 2 weeks. So investing in this AI, this digital twin and how we set ourselves up from an operating technology, I would like to think derisks and brings our ramp-up forward. This is something that our predecessors didn't have a benefit from. But I shared that with you, right? So I'm an engineer. So I would argue, if you look at us as an organization, we're more an engineering organization than a marketing, which is exactly what we need for the phase that we're in. Any other questions or comments?

We have another one. How many fully paid securities does the newly appointed Chair hold in the market? So you have 748,000 roughly per the change of director's interest notice on the 14th of July. He actually bought on market and also participated in all our SPPs to date, even the last one where the SPP price was higher than the market price. Are there any other ones from the room? We have more detailed questions that we addressed on the page in your presentation already, and there's some more detailed ones that we will reply directly back to the shareholders. But is there anything else from the room because we've probably got 5 minutes before we need to vacate.

Quite a few more questions this time around.

Thanks, everyone, for their attendance.

Thank you.