Archer Aviation Inc. (ACHR) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

May 23, 2023

New York Stock Exchange US Industrials Aerospace and Defense conference_presentation 36 min

Earnings Call Speaker Segments

William Peterson

analyst
#1

Good morning, and welcome to JPMorgan's 51st Annual TMC Conference. My name is Bill Peterson. I cover Clean Tech at the firm, including Archer Aviation. And really pleased to have Mark Mesler, who's the CFO of Archer, join us here this morning. He's going to share some kind of intro comments, introduce himself as well as the company, what they do, and then we'll move on to Q&A, and we're happy to take questions from the audience. We just ask you to use the microphone as this is webcast. But Mark, thanks for coming to our conference. And yes, over to you.

Mark Mesler

executive
#2

Thanks, Bill. Thanks for everyone for coming out as well. As Bill said, Mark Mesler, CFO of Archer Aviation, I've been with Archer for probably about 1.5 years now. I've spent most of my time -- most of my career in Silicon Valley and hard tech. So Archer Aviation is a natural fit for me. The company itself, Archer Aviation is designing and manufacturing and electric vertical takeoff and landing aircraft. You'll hear eVTOL as sort of the moniker that's given in the market. When we came to market, we wanted to develop the most expeditious path to market. We didn't want this to be a science experiment, and we didn't want to fly the highest or go the fastest. We used a data-driven approach to develop what the use cases are for an aircraft in the market. And we also use that data to inform us on what the design of the aircraft would look like as well. So we're innovating very rapidly at pace to get to market in 2025. Our aircraft is focused on the specific mission, which is in the 20 to 50-mile use case. Again, that was a data-driven decision. We hired some really smart data scientists from Uber Pool early on. We did a lot of analysis of how commuters move through urban areas during the day. And we clearly -- the data showed, as we all feel that there are thousands of commutes in any given city in a day that's less than 50 miles. It probably takes 1 hour to 1.5 hours. And so we use that data to, one, identify what the use cases, which is that 20- to 50-mile mission, but help us inform the technology that we're deploying as well. So the 20- to 50-mile use case for our aircraft also informed the type of batteries that we're putting in there, the passenger and payload size. So we're focused on a 4 passenger plus 1 pilot payload. We're also focused on battery and engine technology to support that mission. Our batteries can charge in 10 minutes to support a rapid back-to-back 20-mile mission. And we've also had some great partners to help us along the way. We are -- have a really good partnership with United. They've given us a $1 billion contract for 200 aircraft that will be deployed within their network. We also have a partnership with Stellantis, who is the manufacturer of Jeep, RAM, Maserati nameplates, produces over 500,000 cars per month. And so they're a very good operational partner. They're also an investor. And then finally, we've been able to track some of the best and brightest talent in the world. This sector not only Archer, but this sector is very well capitalized with the de-SPAC dynamic in 2021, we were able to raise close to $1 billion. And what that did was brought a lot of great talent into the company and into the sector. So we've got some of the best aerospace and defense engineering mines in the world. We've got some of the best propulsion mines in the world. We've got -- our Head of Propulsion came from Tesla. We've got folks from Lucid, Polestar, et cetera. So as we sit here today, we are very focused on getting to commercialization in 2025. We're working through the certification process. And we just shipped our first production aircraft to our test site in Salinas, California, which is going to begin flight testing later this summer. So that's the background.

William Peterson

analyst
#3

Yes. Why don't we actually talk -- pick up one of the points you were mentioning. So at an investor event held in Palo Alto last year, the team spend a ton of time talking about the advantages and about the propulsion system, the electric motors that you're designing, the battery technology. What makes this differentiated relative to the competition? And I guess to that point, what are you doing in-house and where are you really leveraging external partners on the build of the plane?

Mark Mesler

executive
#4

Sure. So as I said, in that quest to develop the most expeditious path to market, we had to quickly make a decision on what we're going to design internally and what we are going to just source from a very mature aerospace supply base. We early on decided that propulsion is a key differentiator. Propulsion enables the vertical takeoff and landing capability and the power that's needed in that vertical takeoff and landing capability, and it also enables payload. So we also believe that for this business to hunt, you need to have a 4-passenger payload type of configuration. So what we're doing is developing -- we decided to develop in-house our propulsion systems and leverage some of the great work that's been done by others in the EV space. So for example, our engine technology is developed in-house. It's a key differentiator versus those that are out there. As an example, a Cessna 172 combustion engine weighs about 135 kilos. It has 29% efficiency. Our aircraft engines weigh about 25 kilos, have 95% efficiency. So the efficiency and the performance of our aircraft engines are enabling that business model. If we were to go out and source something similar just from the aerospace supply base, we'd be -- would have probably 40% higher weight ratio on that -- on those engines. So we're able to save weight in the design of the aircraft. Aircraft weight is everything. I mean we're scraping and scrapping for every gram out of the weight of the aircraft to enable payload. Similarly, with our battery technology, we are sourcing our batteries from a company called Molicel, but they are very high-power batteries, and we were able to configure them into a battery pack. There are 6 battery packs in our aircraft. We're able to configure them such that they were able to be about 30% less weight then would be in a typical off-the-shelf sort of configuration. So those design decisions that we made and sourcing that internally, developing that internally with really, really high-quality folks. Dr. Michael Schwekutsch heads up our propulsion team. He headed up the Tesla Model 3 propulsion team at Tesla. He was at the Apple -- he was with the Apple special projects group as well. And so he's done a great job in designing that tech for us. So that is a key differentiator. We're extremely proud of that. And it does though, get back to that most expeditious path to market, that it does enable our payload and it does support the back-to-back 20- to 50-mile missions and allows us to charge our batteries within 10 minutes.

William Peterson

analyst
#5

Similarly on the software side, so what are you doing internally versus externally in areas like avionics or navigation? What -- how do you guys parse that out?

Mark Mesler

executive
#6

Yes. So if our propulsion team is about 100 of the 600 people that we have on board, our software team is approaching that size as well. So software is focused on those items that are idiosyncratic to our technology. So it's focused on -- our flight controls is focused on our battery management system as well as our engine management system. And then we're able to support some of the more standard commoditized software through the aerospace and defense base such as flight operating systems.

William Peterson

analyst
#7

So lastly, on technology, you built out your test labs and capabilities in San Jose in recent quarters. So where does that stand today? What kind of test can you -- will you be performing there? And I guess will that site be used for long term after your Georgia site begins, I guess, or ramps in higher volume.

Mark Mesler

executive
#8

Yes, sure. So our overall manufacturing strategy has been to get to scale very fast. So we talked about the most expeditious path to commercialization. We believe that commercialization not only is just getting an aircraft to market but getting aircraft at scale to market. So not just tens of aircraft, but hundreds and thousands of aircraft to market, which is why we've partnered with a shop like Stellantis, who manufactures automotive every day at scale. With respect to our strategy, we are building out our San Jose test lab and pilot manufacturing facility. It's actually coming online as we speak. It's right around the corner from us. The strategy around that is that our engineers will be manufacturing tail 1 through tail 6 for our certification aircraft. The test labs there can test raw materials as they're coming in, components as we're developing them as well as full software in the loop type of tests. What we're not doing there are things that are better done outside of us, like crash testing and icing testing and things like that. So we would not do that in San Jose. Our Covington, Georgia facility, which we broke ground on about a month ago is our scale manufacturing facility. So we look at our aircraft manufacturing process as very similar to an automotive manufacturing process. We almost -- we don't look at it as really an aerospace and defense process. We've got carbon. We've got wiring harnesses, we've got batteries. We've got engines very similar to an automotive manufacturing process. So that is coming online. Our partner, Stellantis, is helping us bring that online. And we're using the San Jose facility around the corner from us to do the initial production of our certification aircraft on which we will build 6 of those. Once that process moves to Covington, Georgia, which will be next year, that manufacturing process, we're actually going to take that -- the area of the factory that we're doing, manufacturing the test aircraft and we're going to be moving our -- expanding our powertrain manufacturing there. So that powertrain and propulsion we're going to continue to own that process, continue to own not only the design, but the manufacturing of it. And we'll be able to produce hundreds of aircraft propulsion systems in San Jose.

William Peterson

analyst
#9

Great. So moving on to certification, and this is a really critical thing on everybody's mind. So where are you in the certification process what's left to be accomplished and what kind of time frame should investors be thinking about for, in this case, type certification of the aircraft?

Mark Mesler

executive
#10

Sure. So certification is clearly key to getting to market for any aircraft manufacturer. We've done a lot of -- we've done a lot of work with the FAA to get to where we are, which is we're industry-leading in terms of certification. I think there's one other player, which is very close to us or we're close to them, however you want to look at it. Just to step back there, 2 parts of the certification process. You work with the FAA to generally outline what you're going to test and how you do it. That's a big paper chase. First part is the G-1 where -- which is the means of compliance. That's like 30 pages. Then you get into -- sorry, the certification basis is the G-1, the means of compliance is like 300 pages, then you get into the subject-specific certification plans, which are like 3,000 pages. So we've submitted 15 of our 18 subject-specific certification plans. And that, along with the means of compliance, which we're working on right now, we'll largely tell the FAA what we're going to test. So we're almost through that process of telling the FAA what we're going to test. The conforming aircraft, which we're going to start building later this year are the aircraft that we'll be using to test all of those subject-specific certification plans. I know there's a lot of words I'm throwing around with respect to certification -- sorry, I'm knee-deep in certification. But as an investor, if you're looking at the space, you're going to want to understand where folks are in the certification process. So we're just about through telling the FAA what we're going to test. We've got a couple of final agreements to get with them, alignment on. And then next year, we'll start testing those, specifically the 18 subject-specific certification plans, which we're agreeing to with the FAA currently.

William Peterson

analyst
#11

And you guys have talked about the, I guess, the first nonconforming followed by 6 conforming aircraft, first of which later this year. What are these aircraft used for? Would this first aircraft, what will be used for and what will it be different for the conforming aircraft?

Mark Mesler

executive
#12

Sure. So the difference between a conforming versus a nonconforming aircraft is generally that the conforming aircraft have been manufactured in a space or in a system that has been approved by the FAA for certification. Nonconforming aircraft just means you didn't apply those same FAA principles to the manufacturing process where they weren't in place. So the nonconforming aircraft is the one I alluded to earlier, which is our first production build that we are now testing in our Salinas facility. That is going to do a full flight envelope testing. So it's, for us, a full flight envelope is taking off. It is transitioning from hover into forward flight, and then it will transition from forward flight to hover and then to landing. So -- and then all of the tests in between. So that aircraft the nonconforming midnight is going to be running through those tests. And it's really a prelude to the work that we're going to be doing on the -- with the 6 conforming aircraft. The reason we have 6 conforming aircraft is because we have to get through those 18 subject-specific certification plans. Those 18 specific -- those SSCPs for short, have very specific tests that we're going to be going through, so the propulsion tests, the environmental control system test, the airframe test, et cetera. So those 6 conforming aircraft will actually be checking the box across all of those 18 subject-specific certification plans. And we've got a very experienced team that has gone through this before from the aerospace and defense industry. Our COO and Chief Engineer have both taken each individually 7 eVTOL aircraft from design to testing. So we're excited to get to work later this year and starting to build those conforming aircraft. And then next year, Q1 of next year is where we'll really start the type certification testing process.

William Peterson

analyst
#13

Do you have a thought or a view that what would be the largest challenge or challenges to certification? And what gives you confidence that you can achieve certification by the end of the year 2024, early '25?

Mark Mesler

executive
#14

I'm not sure I'd call it a challenge as when you're representing something in front of the FAA that they haven't seen before. So if you go through those 18 subject-specific certification plans, there's probably 3 that they haven't really seen before, and that's around the electric propulsion system and the battery tech. So we started very early on with them to get them up to speed on how we were deploying, how we were using that battery and propulsion technology. So I think us taking an early run at the FAA with respect to those areas are giving us an advantage or giving us some -- a little bit of a head start in terms of when we get to the actual 4 credit testing. They're going to be very well familiar with our tech, they'll understand how we're deploying it and then they understand the test that we'll be running.

William Peterson

analyst
#15

Yes. I want to talk about the partnerships, both on, let's say, the market side and United, but also on the manufacturing side of in terms of Stellantis. First of all, signify the importance of that, again, first on the demand side. And then on the supply side, what is the key about Stellantis as part of your manufacturing strategy?

Mark Mesler

executive
#16

Sure. So we -- this is a heavy lift. We're creating as much as we're creating a company, we're creating a new industry along with some other players in the industry as well. So we felt it was very important to have some high-quality partners to help us do that. The good news is, early on, we were able to partner with United. United as an investor in the company as well as a really good operational partner and customer. So United has -- as I mentioned earlier, they've given us a large order for our aircraft that as we get through the certification process, they'll start taking delivery of and deploying into routes that we're helping them develop. In addition, they also think about -- help us think about how to operate these things within standard airports, et cetera. So we have recently announced with United -- jointly with United, our first eVTOL point-to-point route is -- was the Newark International Airport to downtown Manhattan. And then about a month ago, we announced the Chicago O'Hare to downtown Chicago route with United. So those will be United branded routes. There -- we will be helping them operate them as we both get up to speed on how to operate UAM networks. And they help us with the day-to-day tactical stuff as well, like if we're landing behind the TSA, which is if you think about what a really good use case for the aircraft is, okay, you hop on an aircraft, you go through TSA in downtown Manhattan. It takes you on to the other -- it flies you out to Newark and you get on the other side of TSA, so you don't have that friction in your commuting process, and you landed a gate very close to where you're going to take your business class or your Polaris class trip elsewhere in the U.S. So they help us think through how are we going to get spots at gates, how are we going to get past TSA. They've also helped us with looking at our aircraft design and saying, you know what, for maintenance purposes, you're going to have to really move that access plate down to the bottom here because your maintenance crew is not going to be able to access the engine there. So they've just been a great partner. And all of that learning that they've had for years in the business, they're helping us where it's needed on our side as well. Stellantis, very similar, awesome operational partner. As I said, they build 500,000 cars a month, 6 million to 9 million a year. They're embedded with us. I walk around my office, and I see guys with Jeep shirts on all the time. I'm a Jeep guy, so I go talk to them. But they're embedded with us helping us think about how to build these things at scale, how to -- what are the right process steps for this assembly process, what are the right ways to think about this subassembly, who should we be going out and talking to about sourcing components for the aircraft. So there they help us think about not only the very tactical day-to-day manufacturing, but then how to design for scale, how to design the factory in Georgia for scale. And they've just been a great partner, too. So again, it's difficult to build an industry with just one person or one company or a handful of companies, but by bringing in really good, high-quality partners to help us do that, it's been invaluable for us. It's been invaluable.

William Peterson

analyst
#17

I want to pause here and see if there's any questions from the audience before moving on with additional questions. Maybe coming back to the United thing further, 2 things on that. So just to be clear, it doesn't really exist today, right, to go behind the [ facts ] of TSA, I don't believe. So there's probably more heavy lifting on that side in the next few years. But how do -- I guess, maybe -- and this could be not only United with the first 2 routes, but how in general are you looking at the routes? So what have you done to -- that would make a particular route attractive? Maybe you could explain more about the type of tools that you have or maybe the tools you have alongside of United on how you would assess what makes a good route.

Mark Mesler

executive
#18

Yes, that's a good question. So we -- as I said at the outset, we've taken a very data-driven approach to the market. We have an internal application that we call Prime Radiant. It was developed by a data scientist from Uber Elevate, who was one of the first 10 people to joined the company. And so we can see people's mobility through pick the top 50 MSAs in the world and how they move through the cities. One of the first things that surfaced in that analysis is that high-value routes in most of the major cities in the world are those routes from downtown to the airport. There's clear ability to pay, there is clear demand. And so the routes that we've announced with United are following that paradigm. None of what we do is random in terms of picking routes, though, is Bill's question was like how do you think about route development off of that? So we think about it in sort of 2 phases of going into a market. And this is on the urban air mobility side and building out the urban air mobility networks. There's the trunk routes, which we call the city center to the airports. Those are the probably some of the highest traveled, highest throughput routes in all the major cities. There's also a fairly robust routes beyond that. Think Greenwich, Connecticut to downtown Manhattan or some suburban Boston to Downtown Boston. Those are also very beefy and meaty routes. And so our Prime Radiant software helps us map out what those look like. We're actually -- we've mapped out a full network in California right now. California has got great weather, you've got clear ability to pay. There's a lot of demand. You've got big companies like Google and Facebook that have employees who are living outside of the areas. So we've actually used Prime Radiant to develop what these trunk and branch routes look like across probably the top 25, top 50 MSAs in the U.S. and the world. So that's how we -- that's the strategy that we deploy. It's not random. But then what you have to do is that's what the data says, but we also have a -- our Head of Infrastructure then goes out and looks at what's on the ground that supports that data. He's Bryan Bernhard, he's our Chief Infrastructure Officer. He was with WeWork for 9 years and help them build out all of that hard infrastructure. They scaled very fast with hard infrastructure and he's doing that same thing for us thinking about -- we call them vertiports, what does the vertiport in Greenwich look like or if we've mapped out the Bay Area network going out to Livermore, which is a city on the east -- in the East Bay. What does that look like? Is the -- does the Google map, the satellite that we looked at when we were mapping out that route, is it really a space to put a vertiport there? So it goes into very deep -- we go very deep on how to map these routes out. Start with the data -- and then we put boots on the ground to go validate that data. And clearly, I mean, that doesn't always play out, but you get pretty close.

William Peterson

analyst
#19

In prior talk, you discussed the importance of infrastructure, one to obviously find new infrastructure, but maybe it's also important not to lose existing infrastructure. But what -- how do you see this playing out? Will this be owned by Archer? Do you think it's going to be public used by anybody? Are you going to have your own sort of lounge there? Like how should people think about the infrastructure problem? And I'll call it a problem because, look, I mean, a lot of these jurisdictions, there's going to be probably some red tape along with that and building stuff.

Mark Mesler

executive
#20

That's absolutely correct. So I think it's all of the above. I don't think there's going to be one formula that is going to -- one size fits all for each location. For instance, in New York City, the heliport on 34th Street, that's a port authority managed property. I don't think they're going to give exclusivity to any one operator. You're not going to create a monopoly for your consumers. However, if I wanted to go out to a place in Long Island and invest in that area, I might be able to cut a deal with the local municipality that I could get unique access to that area. So I think it's across the board. We will be selective on probably where we -- we don't want to -- to be clear, like we don't want to own all of our aircraft assets on our balance sheet. I don't want to own all of our vertiport assets on my balance sheet. So we're clearly going to -- so [ with ] partnerships with United and Stellantis, clearly we're going to have a partner on the infrastructure side as well. And we look at it as being very opportunistic of where we think those high-value vertiports or access locations to aircraft would be. We could be very opportunistic about how we invest in those. But I think there's going to be other areas where it's just going to be -- you may never have unique access or do you maybe not want to have unique access to that, it's going to have to be shared.

William Peterson

analyst
#21

Yes. Again, I want to see if there's any questions before moving on. Okay. Let's speak more about Stellantis. So you noted them as a toll manufacturer. How does the cost sharing work? Who's in charge of what? Who's in charge of CapEx? Who's in charge of -- how do the economics work under that scenario?

Mark Mesler

executive
#22

Sure. I think there's 2 different phases to that relationship. The relationship that we have -- is desired between us two is for them to be a contract manufacturer for us at scale. And clearly, in that relationship, the contract manufacturer would own the assets, would own the technology around producing those assets, and we would enter into a sort of like a cost-plus relationship with them. So that -- I think that's -- we haven't defined on when that, what exactly that cutover point is. Currently, they are contributing IP and people to help us think through the first phase and how that scales into the second phase. So the first phase, the Georgia factory, the San Jose factory, et cetera, those are -- the cost of those are generally being borne by Archer by design. We've always had it in our plan. When and if we cut over to that new paradigm where they're our contract manufacturer, when that happens, we'll figure out who owns what at that point. But the good news is that we've come to an agreement that our goal is for them to be our contract manufacturer at scale. So we will get out of that business and just turn it over to them.

William Peterson

analyst
#23

Yes. What is the latest thinking on these aircraft in terms of direct sales to somebody like United? You mentioned you could operate for them, but versus developing your own network. And how does that look through time, I guess?

Mark Mesler

executive
#24

Yes. So I should have mentioned probably at the beginning what our business model is invest. You guys would be interested in that. So we are actually a hybrid business model in terms of going to market. We will sell these aircraft like the contract we have with United. So when you think about that, that's a direct capital asset sale to an operating partner. I would recognize revenue generally when I sold that to them in a contract agreement. We also, though, think that there's real value in the Archer brand and the Archer customer experience. So one of the things that I haven't talked through is our aircraft. If you saw it's an extremely elegant design. So I've got a crazy -- our Head of Design came from Mazda. And as much as he says, aircraft is designed mathematically. He talks about the organic expression of huminicity in this aircraft, which is a finance guy just sort of like, "Hey, that's cool, but I don't understand what he's talking about." But that said, the aircraft is beautiful. I would encourage you to go out and look at the aircraft online, our midnight production aircraft is not only beautiful for eVTOL. It's beautiful aircraft in general. I mean this thing could be in like a Westworld or Blade Runner movie, and it would not be out of place. So I actually forgot where it's going because I got into the design for this. What question was I answering?

William Peterson

analyst
#25

Well, I mean, sales at first, followed by network, how should it go through time?

Mark Mesler

executive
#26

So the -- we also want to operate these because we want to own the brand. And we look at the direct sales will help fund that build out of the UAM. As we were talking about earlier, the UAM is going to be not easy to build out. It's not going to be day 1 where you have this massive network that you can sell into. We are going to be developing those over time. And we feel that the direct sales model to operators in the U.S. and outside the U.S. as well, will create capital and that capital can help us continue to build out the UAM networks as well. So we do think probably long term that, that's probably where the value is in the company. You've got a -- you can create an annual recurring revenue stream within these large cities once you gain customer adoption and customer acceptance. So that's how we look at the business model.

William Peterson

analyst
#27

So knowing what you know about the bill of materials and I guess, the best you can in the manufacturing process, how should -- in your pricing arrangement, how should we think about gross margins for a direct sale? But then for the network, how do the unit economics work? And how should we think about the unit economics on that and how the margin structure looks there?

Mark Mesler

executive
#28

Sure. So we're starting to -- we've done a lot of work on this and continuing to do a lot of work on this. We're probably -- we're going to hold an Analyst Day later this year and talk through more detail of the unit level economics. Loosely, our initial evaluations and modeling shows that we think that on the direct sales side, our target gross margins when we're hundreds of aircraft per year are probably in the 50% plus range. So very different from current aerospace and defense, but we look at this as a -- it's a new technology being deployed. And if you just look at the ASPs from our contract with United, they support a gross margin of 50-plus percent. The UAM side is a little bit less. It's probably about in the 40%-plus range. That's because you've got incremental costs that you're bearing there. You've got the cost of the pilots, you've got the cost of insurance for the aircraft, you've got financing costs. As I said, I don't want to hold these on my balance sheet so there will be a financing partner to help us, you've got maintenance costs, et cetera. But you do create -- while it's a lower gross margin business, it is an ongoing repeatable scaling business as well as you have annual recurring revenues from those networks that you're putting together. That's how you can think about the unit level economics. We talked about on an earnings call, I think, 2 quarters ago, a typical ride share from -- or a typical cab from Newark Liberty International to Downtown is about $100. No matter how you slice it, it's $100-plus tip. I've been on cabs, I've been in Ubers. It's always around that $100, $120. That equates to roughly $6 per seat mile. When we came out of the gate with -- on our IPO process, we were targeting to be able to make money in the $3 to $4 per seat mile. We've just seen the market, I think, converge or change of oil price to what the market will bear to be at least in the high-value areas like those routes or those commuter trips from Newark to -- and probably JFK the same is in that $6 per seat mile. But we'll clearly priced out the market will bear. If we're in that $3 to $4 per seat mile, $4 per seat mile, I'm in that targeted 40% gross margin range with taking into account all the cost to operate the vehicle as well. Now there's one caveat there, landing fees. Landing fees are something that is still being sucked out by the industry. They're landing fees in New York right now that we feel are -- don't support a long-term cost model. So the landing fees at all these locations are going to be -- because it's all across the board right now across the U.S. That's the one area that is probably -- we don't have dialed in, in our model, and we got to continue to work that.

William Peterson

analyst
#29

Yes. Maybe last question. So in terms of the balance sheet, I mean, you talked about raising, I guess, it'd be the second most of the eVTOL guys. You have some options with Stellantis. How should we think about the need, if there is any to raise capital between now and certification? And what options would you have in that scenario?

Mark Mesler

executive
#30

Sure. I think that taking the partnerships that we're going to have to think about on the infrastructure side, there are 2 vectors of financing that we are always thinking about. One is clearly how do we keep the business capitalized. But there's also the capitalization around the aircraft that we'll be deploying into our networks. I'm actively working with some -- I came from clean tech. He always financed your clean tech assets that you were deploying into your fleet. We're going to -- we're working that same vector for our aircraft assets. On the -- no amount of time, we'll just finish up. On the growth side or on the corporate side, as we said on our last earnings call, we're pretty well capitalized between now and getting to commercialization in 2025. We'll be opportunistic as we get closer to 2025. If there's some attractive financing mechanisms, we might take advantage of. But the good news is right now, we don't need to do that.

William Peterson

analyst
#31

Well, unfortunately, we're out of time, but thanks for sharing the insights, and we look forward to following the progress. Thanks, Mark.

Mark Mesler

executive
#32

Yes. Thanks, Bill. And thanks, everyone, for coming.

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