Arion banki hf. ($ARION)

So good morning, and welcome to Arion Bank's presentation for the first quarter results 2026. My name is Olafur Hoskuldsson, CFO of Arion Bank. For this morning's agenda, I will start by walking you through the key financials of the quarter. Then our CEO, Benedikt Gislason, will cover the key operational highlights in the quarter as well as looking at the outlook going forward. Then our Chief Economist, Erna Bjorg Sverrisdottir, will provide a brief update on the Icelandic economy. Before I start the presentation, I would, as usual, like to remind participants online that you can submit questions throughout the presentation through the message board, which is located below the video feed. We will then provide answers to your questions in the Q&A session at the end of the webcast. So starting as usual with the key highlights from the quarter. First, a solid start to the year, which continues a good momentum from the recent years in Arion Bank's operations. Second, from my perspective, of course, a highlight in this quarter is related to the net interest margin. In the past couple of quarters, we have had some short-term fluctuations in the margin. We have, of course, to an extent, expected this and continue to guide for this in previous earnings calls. This quarter, for example, saw the Icelandic annualized CPI print mature at around 10% level, which increased from a very low sub-1% level in the fourth quarter last year. This means that while the net interest margin was at the lower end in Q4, it is high this quarter. As of course with most things in our business, the underlying products driving these fluctuations, namely the CPI-linked mortgages are clearly not priced for a 3-month period and we look for a longer-term view of real interest rates when managing these products. It is, of course, important to keep that in mind while putting these numbers into perspective. Another clear highlight from my perspective for the quarter relates to balance sheet growth. Despite the economy in Iceland generally slowing down in response to the high policy rates, we have continued to find good and solid profitable growth opportunities, both on the corporate and retail side. And importantly, in parallel, we have continued to grow deposits -- stable deposits in line with that loan growth. And finally, and of course, very importantly, given the global external market backdrop, we continue to maintain a very robust capital position and liquidity position. And with most of our upcoming bond maturities prefunded early, we can be opportunistic in the funding markets. And actually, we are this morning in the market with a EUR 300 million 3-year senior issue. So now looking more closely at the income statement. Net profit in the quarter was ISK 7.3 billion compared to ISK 6.4 billion for the first quarter last year. Core income, namely net interest, fees and insurance revenues were ISK 21 billion, which is up from ISK 17.5 billion for this quarter last year, or up by 20%. So I will cover the key line items in more detail on the following pages, but just looking at some of the other line items. Financial income was again challenged this quarter as equity markets in Iceland were again depressed. And this, of course, impacts our insurance business, investment portfolio and also our market-making business on the banking side. In addition, this quarter, we have a markdown of unlisted equity holdings of around ISK 800 million. These are mainly 2 holdings in the tax sector, where we have taken a conservative view based on broader market backdrop in that market. These, however, remain very interesting prospects and close partners with the bank going forward. Because of the losses on the equity holdings, the effective tax rate is again higher this quarter at close to 34%. Cost of risk is down 12 basis points in the quarter. So now looking more closely at some of the key line items. I'm starting with net interest income, where as discussed, of course, we had a somewhat unusual period. Net interest in the quarter was ISK 16.3 billion, up from ISK 12.4 billion in the fourth quarter. The annualized net interest margin as a percentage of interest-bearing assets was therefore 3.8% compared to 2.9% in the fourth quarter. As we have discussed and guided for, there is, of course, an inherent enhanced volatility in the short-term margin with the increased CPI-linked mortgage lending that we've seen over the past few years. Especially, of course, as mentioned, in the past couple of quarters, we've seen significant moves in the monthly CPI prints, which does increase the fluctuations in the margin. Again, these products are not priced based on 3-month real interest rates and we tend to look through these short-term movements when managing these products. We continue to guide investors for a margin over the mid-term above the 3% level. We do, however, continue to see some -- or expect some fluctuations in the margin in the near term, in the coming quarters, but we also expect that to be reduced when our clients move more into the non-CPI-linked mortgage format. And we are starting to see signs of this this quarter and the CPI imbalance seems to have peaked at least for the time being. How this then, of course, develops over the coming quarters is highly correlated with the level of inflation in Iceland and in term policy rates and how they developed in the near term. One additional point that I want to mention on the net interest margin is that this month, we have a maturity of an expensive EUR 300 million senior bond that was issued in 2021 at spreads above 400 basis points. So of course, refinancing this and we're in the market this morning, we'll see how that ends up, this will be a good tailwind for the NIM from Q2. So now looking at fees and commissions, another solid quarter in terms of fee generation with total fees of just under ISK 3.9 billion. In general, our fee-generating businesses are doing well and demonstrating strong stability through the cycle. Where we do see some fluctuations is in the CIB business, which is to be expected. These fees are generally more transactional and lumpy than the other areas. In this quarter, for example, last year, we had some sizable transactions closing and we had less so this quarter. But again, this is, of course, a 3-month period, very short, and we are very happy with the way this business is doing and very confident in the long-term trajectory of the business and fee generation of the group going forward. So now moving on to the insurance business, Vordur. The growth momentum continues very strong in that business. Growth was 7.2% from the first quarter of last year and the combined ratio of just above 100%. As you, of course, see on the slide and we've talked about in previous earnings calls, this is a seasonal business and the combined ratio tends to move around quite significantly between quarters. This -- the winter months represent generally a high point in terms of claims and the combined ratio is usually around the 100% level at this time of the year. As we have seen in recent quarters, however, there has been a positive trend in the claims ratio and we continue to see that this quarter with the claims ratio is at around 77%, which is down from 79% from this quarter last year. So net results for Vordur including investment income was a loss of just above ISK 60 million in the quarter compared to ISK 640 million loss for this quarter last year. And the improvement is largely on the investment side. In general, we continue to be very positive and see strong momentum in this business in terms of growth and profitability and significant further scope for this business to become a key profit contributor to the group, especially with improved conditions on the investment side. So now looking at the operating expenses, including those from the insurance business. Total operating expenses in the quarter were ISK 8.4 billion, which is up by just under ISK 1 billion from this quarter last year. The headline number is impacted by some one-off items, which we outlined on the slide which makes the comparison slightly cumbersome. But just taking sort of take you through it step by step. So looking at salaries, for example, it increased by ISK 754 million between years. Last year, we had a one-off ISK 320 million reversed expense due to the incentive scheme. And this year, we have ISK 120 million expense related again to the incentive scheme due to the change in accounting methodology. So if we exclude these items, effectively salaries were increasing by ISK 300 million, or around 6.9% between years. Just for sort of putting that into context over the past year, the number of employees in the group increased by 4%. And at the start of the year, we had the 3.5% general wage increase related to the collective wage, union wage negotiations coming into effect from January this year. And in terms of other expenses, we have around ISK 200 million increase between years and just under half of that is related to the Kvika merger process, you can say also is a one-off. So just moving on to the balance sheet and starting with the loan book, which grew by ISK 23 billion in the quarter or -- and takes the loan book to ISK 1,352 billion. The growth in the quarter was relatively evenly split between corporates and retail and mortgages, while around ISK 9 billion of the growth is related to the CPI-linked loans for inflation impact on the loan book. As discussed in previous calls, we remain dynamic in the way we manage balance sheet and loan growth, balancing credit strategy and profitable growth opportunities. The loan book continues to be very well balanced, 43% mortgages, 5% other loans to individuals and 52% to corporates. In terms of provisioning, as discussed, we had a ISK 391 million impairment in the quarter or 12 basis points. That takes the total loss allowance at the end of the quarter to ISK 12.4 billion, or 0.9% of the loan book. In general, the story is very similar to what I've described in recent quarters. The nonperforming loans ratio has increased somewhat over the past few quarters, which is, of course, to be expected given the rate environment that we have in Iceland. Credit quality indicators remain, however, very robust and we retain a conservative provisioning position based on our comprehensive stress testing, which we have been doing for the past few years. Just for an example, we have conducted a stress test of our construction loan book, which is an area that we have seen a somewhat high NPLs recently. The result of that stress test suggest that these projects are very well positioned to endure a prolonged period of market stagnation and price depreciation without creating additional credit losses. These stress scenarios, just to give context, assumed a real estate price decrease of around 40%. So looking at deposits, which continued to grow in the quarter, increasing by just under ISK 10 billion to ISK 932 billion. As we have discussed, we have a clear strategy in this area, which is to grow, especially in the more stable categories of deposits. And as we have continued to highlight in the top right chart of this page, the growth continues to be in these areas in these categories. For example, the recent product development related to our group's loyalty program further aims to support this strategy and has been very successful as Benedikt will probably go into in more detail later. So now looking at capital, our position continues to be very strong, common equity ratio of 18.5%, or 318 basis points above our regulatory requirements and still above our 150 to 250 basis points target. We are, as before, committed to our medium-term capital target and expect to move a position within the target range near term through a combination of balance sheet growth and shareholder distributions. In terms of the leverage ratio, of course, continues to be very strong at 11.2%. And in terms of MREL, we are also in a very robust position with substantial headroom above requirements. So on that note, I would like to thank you and welcome our CEO, Benedikt Gislason, to go through some of the key operational highlights in the quarter and outlook going forward. Thank you.

Thank you, Olafur. I would like to start by focusing on the 2 medium-term targets that we didn't meet in this quarter. And just reiterating what Olafur mentioned around the insurance business that this is a seasonal business. And for Vordur, we've usually seen the combined ratio at these levels in the first quarter, as he explained. And we're obviously quite committed in delivering that medium-term target of combined ratio below 95%. I think it's also worth mentioning with our insurance business that Vordur reached a key milestone during the quarter, temporarily becoming the third largest insurance company in Iceland with an insurance revenue market share of 19.5%, reflecting strong commercial momentum and sustained customer growth. The result underlines the strength of Vordur's operational model, brands and distribution as well as benefits of closer integration with the Arion Group. And as Olafur mentioned, we see further growth opportunities for this business throughout our bank assurance strategy, leveraging Arion's customer base, advisory capabilities and physical presence to deepen relationships and increase cross-selling. The other medium-term target that we haven't met and has taken us quite a time to get closer to is the CET1 ratio. And on that target, I would want to highlight that we will continue to manage profitable balance sheet growth along with capital distribution through buybacks and dividends and at current CET1 levels, balance sheet growth remains well supported and buybacks will continue to serve as an active tool for capital optimization alongside ongoing dividend distributions. And these buybacks, which we've conducted throughout the years have resulted in a higher earnings per share growth than the sort of net earnings attributable to our shareholders and as well a higher dividend per share growth than the bottom line stipulates. Now going to some of the operational highlights for the first quarter. The Arion Rewards momentum continues. The majority of our active retail clients are now enrolled, with rewards deposit accounts, the program's latest addition, growing 68% in the quarter. And building on that success, the next step is to extend a similar rewards program for our corporate clients. And in the corporate space, we rolled out automated SME credit decisioning in the first quarter, covering overdraft applications below ISK 20 million, delivering instant 24/7 decisions with a 50% approval rate since launch. On the insurance side, Vordur delivered 3 successful new product launches in the quarter with further product development ongoing. And on the cyber risk, we continue our focus on ensure and sort of improving the cyber risk and resilience with using latest technology like AI to support vulnerability scanning and extending third-party risk oversight. Now going to the merger discussions with Kvika. It became clear through the extensive pre-notification discussions that the simplification of the financial system, which we strongly believe would have been desirable and beneficial for customers and shareholders alike would not materialize and resulted in termination of those discussions. Our strategy is clear and unchanged. We will be targeting capital priorities, optimizing our capital stack and growing profitability -- profitable and focusing on efficiency and shareholder returns. And the bank is well positioned to evaluate further value-accretive opportunities that will support, in particular, our focus on the Arctic region and corporate and investment banking activities there. And one initiative in this quarter supported our activities in the Arctic, in particular, the European Investment Bank financing facility towards the blue economy, which covers not only Iceland, but also Faroe Islands and Greenland. This is the first blue economy financing facility that European Investment Bank has extended to a financial institution and the first facility towards these 3 countries. On our large residential real estate development project, which is an asset that sort of came out of an enforcement many years ago and is the last asset that we've been working with out of that portfolio. And I'm very glad to tell you that we have now reached a major planning milestone with a detailed zoning plan for Phase 1 of this project, which was formally approved by Mosfellsbaer at the end of March, the municipality that we're working with closely, making significant milestones after years of development work involving leading experts in the field. This is a high-quality nature-based design that follows the 330 -- 300 urban green standard. And for those of you that do not know anything about that, it means 3 trees visible from every home, 30% green surface coverage and more than -- no more than 300 meters to the nearest park making it -- this project one of the only a handful of new neighborhoods in the capital region to achieve this and the largest residential real estate development project in the capital area for quite some time. This project is financially structured to accelerate delivery with our financial contribution to the municipality over the development period, enabling the community to build out the neighborhood and its infrastructure at pace. We are now evaluating our strategic options for future ownership, including partial divestment, full divestment or partnership structures, which may ideally include a listing format, providing shareholders with enhanced liquidity and most importantly, establishing a market-driven price point for asset revaluation. And before I turn over to our Chief Economist, I want to highlight some of the key themes going forward in our operations. As Olafur outlined, this is a solid start to a New Year where, again, the diversity of our business provides support for the overall earnings momentum through the cycle. We continue to cautiously anticipate a continuing complicated external environment near term, which I'm sure that Erna will explain to you in her presentation, both near term in terms of domestic rate development and in terms of the international political landscape. And with this market backdrop, it is, of course, important that we and other key participants in the Icelandic economy do what we can to facilitate economic stability in areas that we can control. That will require a holistic discussion and open dialogue between different parts of the economy. And we, at Arion have certainly, in the recent months, attempted to support this effort with a structured public discussion around what we see as the key drivers in this area and will continue to do so going forward. Arion and the Icelandic economy are well positioned to navigate this environment and capitalize on opportunities as they emerge. And finally, while our recent effort to consolidate -- for consolidation in the Icelandic banking sector has proved unsuccessful, we are proud of the effort and continue to strongly believe in the rationale for Arion and importantly, for Iceland. We have a clear strategy and strong operational momentum and we will not stop looking for ways to strengthen this further and support our clients. And with that, I will hand over to Erna Bjorg, our Chief Economist.

Thank you, Benedikt. Good morning. We have an old saying here in Iceland, [Foreign Language] which means that an outsider often notices things that locals overlook. This remains relevant today as sentiment in Iceland has been subdued with rising rates, high inflation, higher unemployment and global tensions pushing and pulling at oil prices. External observers, however, tend to be less pessimistic, pointing to our renewable energy base and commodity exports. In fact, the IMF currently expects stronger GDP growth in Iceland this year than in other advanced European economies on average. That said, Iceland is not immune to high oil prices. Around 13% of our total energy consumption is imported. And as an island and a small open economy, we rely heavily on transportation and foreign freight. So the global environment will likely weigh on the economy, which is already coming off a challenging year. GDP growth came in at a modest 1.3% last year. The fourth quarter was particularly weak with GDP contracting by 0.6% between years. Investment and consumption were effectively pulling in opposite directions with consumption increasing significantly, up 5.5% as households rushed to purchase new cars ahead of tax changes at year-end, while investment declined largely in relation to major data center projects. Although weaker investment reduced imports, the contribution of foreign trade to GDP was still negative as goods exports, particularly aluminum, contracted between years. This year has started on a somewhat stronger footing for the export sectors. The seafood industry had a record first quarter, supported by a strong caping season and high prices, while tourist arrivals have broadly stabilized after declining last fall and winter. We also received positive news from Nordural with a return to full production capacity expected by late July. At the same time, imports have continued to decline, both computer imports related to data centers and outbound travel with Icelanders' trips abroad down 7% after a record year last year. And this is consistent with other signs that households are becoming more cautious with growth in payment card turnover in the first quarter slowed markedly to 3.5%. And this is one of the key changes to our latest economic forecast as we now expect a slower private consumption growth, reflecting tougher conditions for households. The other major revision relates to the export sectors. First, the temporary production hub at Nordural and the weaker outlook for mackerel and blue whiting were not yet on the radar the last time we published the forecast. Second, and perhaps more concerning is the expected drop in tourist arrivals, or 5% drop according to our forecast due to reduced flight capacity. Uncertainty remains high as high jet fuel prices may constrain flight capacity. So far, the impact on capacity to Iceland has been limited and bookings for the summer remains strong, especially around the solar eclipse in August. Overall, we expect a 1.6% GDP growth this year, driven by private consumption and a positive contribution of foreign trade to GDP, as export revenues from data centers and aquaculture continue to increase, while investment softens and weighs on growth. The falling investment, high interest rates and limited room for expansion in the export sectors has had a clear impact on the labor market, which has cooled quickly in recent months and not just in sentiment, but in the hard data as well. Job growth has been weak, total hours worked and vacancies have declined and hiring plans have softened, particularly among export-oriented firms. So unemployment is expected to remain high or around 5% on average this year. Even though the labor market has softened, pay rises are still too large and not consistent with the inflation target. The steep pay rises have had a clear impact on the domestic portion of inflation, while the strong krona has helped suppress imported inflation. Therefore, headline inflation has proven persistent, measuring 5.2% in April. Even though higher inflation is, to some extent, due to hikes in public levies and rising oil prices, underlying inflation has reached its highest in over a year. To make matters worse, inflation expectations have also begun to rise, which increases the risk of second round effects through wages and prices. And this development played a key role in the MPC's decision to raise rates by 25 basis points last March. As the inflation outlook has not improved substantially since then, the committee is likely to opt for another 25 basis point rate hike later this month, not least to send a clear message that it remains determined to bring inflation back to target even if that proves painful for the economy and for the housing market, which is already cooling. The supply of new housing has continued to accumulate and the average time to sale for newly built homes has grown significantly longer. Still, we are not seeing any clear signs of distressed sales. Market activity has partly normalized and nominal prices are still increasing. We expect nominal prices to continue to increase, but at a very slow pace, while real prices are projected to decline through next year. In this day and age, uncertainty is high. So I'd like to finish my presentation on a slightly positive note by reminding you that the fundamentals of the economy remain strong. Both households and businesses have shown remarkable resilience and are supported by, again, strong economic fundamentals and healthy balance sheets. And that concludes the presentation here today. I'd now like to welcome Theodor Fridbertsson, our Head of IR, to the stage to lead the Q&A section. Thank you.

Thank you, Erna. Good morning, everyone. As usual, remind participants online that you can still submit questions through the platform. And kicking off with the online questions already submitted. We have a few questions from Alexander at Aker. The first one is around the construction portfolio. Olafur, you mentioned that earlier. The net impairment of 12 basis points annualized is below your 20 to 25 basis points long-term expectations despite IFRS 9 weights still tilted pessimistic. With corporate NPL growth since 2023 concentrated in construction, what is your current construction exposure? And this 12 basis points sustainable through 2026?

Yes. I think I covered some of this in the presentation already. Our construction book is around ISK 110 billion. We -- like I outlined in the presentation, we stressed this considerably. There are some elevated NPLs there. But we have been very conservative in the way we provision for this in recent years. So the fact that we're only impairing 12 basis points now probably reflects the fact that we have been very forward-looking in the way we provision and increased pessimistic sort of weights in our IFRS 9 scenarios early. So effectively, the picture that we're looking at now is probably at least not worse than what we were anticipating, actually better. So that's why our impairments are where we are and we are very confident in the levels where we currently are. In terms of sort of the outlook, I think we continue to guide around the 20, 25 basis points through the cycle. Of course, these are -- there are some fluctuations between quarters.

Thank you. Next question is on Blikastaoir. Phase 1 zoning at Blikastaoir is finalized at 1,260 units with re-monetization path flagged. After the Arnarland disposal, what is the realistic time line for Blikastaoir? And how does the listing compare against the share on value realization and capital release grants? Benedikt?

Yes. I would say, it's -- in current market environment, it's the -- sort of predictability and outlook is sort of more uncertain than when we were working on the sale of Arnarland, unfortunately. But our kind of approach has been always to sort of retain the value of the asset and reduce the uncertainties. And the reason, this is a 15-year development plan or even 15- to 20-year 3 phases. And the value obviously is generated throughout the development, even though there are some upfront revaluation potentials in it and depending obviously on the market environment. The listing concept is an idea that we floated in our Capital Markets Day, our last Capital Markets Day because of this nature of the long sort of tenure of this project, where we wanted to explore the option of our shareholders retaining the upside value of this development project over a longer period of time. And we continue to explore the opportunity of going down this route. But at the same time, we are opportunistic in terms of sort of partial or full divestment, but that has to meet our kind of valuation criteria and sort of timing as well. But I would say that there's a substantial decrease in the uncertainty of this project now, which should facilitate a sort of clarified interest of developers and investors on the project. And I think this is very different to other development projects in the sense that this is sort of the largest of its nature in many, many years and is done on a site where sort of you can operate over a longer period of time and not sort of the smaller development sites that have been sold and developed in the capital area in the recent years. So there's scale in the project and all of the kind of the infrastructure, sort of the roads and sewer system are controlled by the entity that holds the land.

Thank you. Next question is on external growth. With Kvika off the table, domestic external growth is unlikely. Is the bank evaluating opportunities abroad? And if so, in which business lines and jurisdictions?

Yes. As I mentioned in my presentation, we're always looking for opportunities to sort of create value for our shareholders. And I think we've been quite successful in kind of this long-term strategic initiative of focusing on the Arctic region. And as I mentioned, the signing the financing facility with European Investment Bank is a testament of that. And we're generally welcomed in the Arctic and we see opportunities for growth there. And I think sort of when it comes to external growth, we would always be looking for platforms that support that strategy.

And final question from Aker. Headcount is up 20% from the 2021 lows with Q1 FTEs at 900. The CEO frames AI as among the most far-reaching technological advances of recent decades. At what point does that translate into stable and declining headcount and further operating leverage?

I think it's worth mentioning, if you look at our salary item line that we've been managing this quite carefully throughout the years. And if you sort of adjust for the headcount changes, you can see that sort of the average salaries within the group have not gone up the same tune as the salary index in Iceland. And sort of our performance management and HR are sort of very focused on sort of keeping or sort of managing the cost side of this and having tight control on it. I would also want to mention that we have since the sort of large language models were made commercially available, been exploring this technology and we're making sure that all -- as many of our employees as we can are made available to the latest technology and we're currently exploring the utilization of the technology in various units within the bank. And we see, for the time being, sort of with kind of the earnings momentum, the revenue momentum in our business and our success in enhancing cross-selling and cross-selling our products that there are also quite a number of opportunities in extending that momentum and creating more personalized services and using these tools to become more efficient. We have -- we are not sort of -- the tone from the top has been very clear that this is major opportunity for advancing our services and we want to make sure that our employees get access to these tools and training. And that is the primary focus for now. On guidance when it comes to FTE number, I think it's just too early to say. We will be exploring these large language models and the agents that are rolling out. There were 10 new agents coming out just a couple of days ago that we're looking at now. And we will be then sort of guiding on that as time progresses. But these are very exciting times for an institution like us.

Yes.

Maybe just -- maybe saying the same thing again. It is a key process within the group. And we have basically -- everyone is working on mapping out the opportunities, the threats and what could be the impact on our business. And in addition to having a dedicated team working on this full time. But it's just -- I think it's -- for any institution, it's too early to put those -- to put that work into changing our targets just yet, but it's getting closer definitely.

Then final 2 questions come from Ellert with Fossar. First one on unlisted equities. Unlisted equities were down ISK 765 million during the quarter. Can you explain the drivers of this fair value reduction, including the relevant sector exposure and comment on the risk of further write-downs versus potential reversals over the remainder of the year? Olafur?

Yes. So I think covered some of this in the presentation already. So these are sort of marked down conservative. These are unlisted holdings, not made trades. So we try to be conservative in the way we value these. These are effective -- just to add maybe a little bit more color, these are effectively 2 holdings in the tax sector [ Amantra ] and Controlant, both sort of tech companies that are global companies, but have roots -- strong roots in the Icelandic economy and have worked with the bank for a long time. So the Amantra holding is at ISK 1.8 billion and Controlant is at ISK 0.8 billion. These are the largest by far sort of that's around half of the unlisted equity holdings. And those 2 are the ones that we are marking down this quarter.

Yes. With the reference price coming from other shareholders in the company.

Yes. Yes.

Or recent trading.

Yes. And always trying to be very conservative in the way we mark these holdings.

And the final question is on fee income, given that the year-on-year and quarter-on-quarter decline in fee income in Q1 is largely attributable to corporate investment banking. How do you view the outlook for the CIB fee income over the coming quarters of 2026?

Yes. I think as Olafur went through in his presentation, there are -- first quarter of last year was a particularly strong one with one of our largest kind of advisory work recording fee income, JPT model. So it was an unusual quarter, I guess, last year in terms of fee income from that standpoint. But as we outlined in our presentation and in the financial statement, we continue to see sort of healthy growth in the corporate space. Credit activity remains robust. And I think sort of we're also seeing, as I mentioned, increased activity in the Arctic region. So we sort of -- we're positive for the year and going forward that we -- the momentum in this business will continue. But there will be sort of seasonality, especially on the advisory side as sort of fees are posted when projects are finalized.

Thank you. That concludes the questions from the online participants. So are there any further questions from the auditorium? No. And I think this concludes today's session. Thank you all for attending, and see you next time.