ARN Media Limited (A1N) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Hello, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to ARN Media Half Year '24 Results. [Operator Instructions] I would now like to turn the call over to Ciaran Davis, CEO and Managing Director. Sir, you may begin.

Thank you -- excuse me, welcome to ARN Media results. Good morning, and thank you for joining. Andrew Nye is unfortunately sick today and won't be on the call, but I'm very pleased to be joined at the last minute by Dilly Coomaraswamy, who is our Head of Finance. Thanks, Dilly. Our agenda follows the usual format, group operational and financial highlights, a review of the financial performance, followed by a look at ARN much more than radio strategy before closing with the trading outlook and Q&A. ARN's performance from a listener and commercial perspective has been in line or better than market. In metro markets, we have maintained a cumulative audience reach of 6.2 million people and remain the #1 network in Sydney and Melbourne. This has translated into commercial performance that was slightly above market. Regionally, our investment in live and local content is delivering rating success, and we continue to see significant national revenue share growth. Our digital audio strategy has seen a digital audience accelerate, including a 9% growth of live streaming. We now have 2.8 million addressable registered users on the iHeart platform, which we are monetizing, and we are still the #1 podcast publisher in the country. Cody in Hong Kong has been awarded 2 significant contracts, the Hong Kong Tramways and the KMB Bus Body contracts, which position the business to rebuild scalable market share in the future. Against the backdrop of advertising markets facing ongoing challenges, total group revenues of $168 million were up 1% on a reported basis and 4% on a pro forma basis. EBITDA before significant items was $35.5 million, was in line with prior year reported results and 10% on a pro forma basis. NPAT is down on the comparative period despite a solid operating results owing to higher depreciation charges and financing and costs incurred in the year. Our net debt is currently $86.8 million or 1.58x EBITDA. This is higher than our 1 to 1.5 early leverage target range while we rebuild the early working capital position following these 2 significant contract wins in Cody, which we will talk to later in the presentation. Considering the current market conditions and the share of one-off costs associated to the ARN proposed acquisition to acquire SCA. And despite the cash generative nature of our business, we declared a fully franked dividend of $0.012 per share, a payout of 70% of NPAT after significant cash items. The radio market continues to demonstrate incredible resilience from both an audience and commercial perspective, showing strong reach and better advertising support relative to other media sectors. Total ARN audiences and revenues grew, driven by excellent performances in regional radio and digital audio. While metro revenues were back 2.7% for the half, ARN was back 2.5%, and we continue to see strong growth in regional revenues up 15%, well ahead of market. A key criteria of our strategy is to grow broadcast and digital audio revenues together, and we are pleased with -- excuse me, and we are pleased with the above-market performance in digital audio, delivering a highly efficient model. Earlier in the year, we guided the market to a cost-out program delivering $10 million permanent annualized savings over 2 years with $6.5 million being realized in CY '24, and we are on track to deliver both. We are also on track to deliver against the previously stated OpEx growth of 2% to 4% for CY '24 and have also commenced a further operational efficiency program with [ core dementor ] which is ongoing and targeting an additional $5 million to $10 million cost out over the next 2 years. This will allow us to continue to invest some of these savings in growth opportunities specifically Kyle & Jackie O in Melbourne and accelerating the growth of our digital audio strategy in '25. As the image in the middle of Slide 3 shows our strategy to invest in regional markets and digital audio have seen our revenue mix shift from being 100% metro revenue 3 or 4 years ago to a more diversified mix encompassing metro, regional and digital, protecting us from the current challenging metro advertising market. Important to remember, though, that the growth in digital is driven from the core strength and relevance of our talent and radio brands. In Metro Radio, our ratings dominance continues in the 2 largest markets of Sydney and Melbourne. Our network ranks #1 in Sydney, achieving a 21.7% share and an average weekly cumulative volumes of 2.2 million. KIS 1065 remains its position as the #1 FM station for 25, 54 year old (sic) [ 25 to 54 year old ] and the Kyle & Jackie O Show recently celebrated its 44th consecutive survey as the #1 FM Breakfast show. Overall, 46% of the Sydney population tunes in. Similarly, in Melbourne, our 2 stations combined have secured #1 network position, capturing 19.7% share and an average weekly cume of 2.2 million. Gold is the #1 FM station and holds the top FM spot for breakfast with the Christian O'Connell breakfast show, 43% of the population tune in each week. In the most recent survey, KIIS97.3 in Brisbane reached a cumulative volume of 161,000, the station's best result in over a year. Mix 102.3 is the most listened to station in Adelaide with 371 (sic) [ 371,000 ] people tuning in each week and 96FM remains Perth's #2 station overall with a 13.6% share. On the 29th of April of this year, we launched the Kyle & Jackie O show in Melbourne. Overnight, it went from reaching 851,000 people in Sydney to 1.22 million people. Melbourne and Sydney together represents 62% of the commercial metro market value and growing the show to mirror the success in Sydney will unlock the potential to capture up to a 10 share point gain. Like all new shows, there is the bedding in process, and it will take time to build a loyal audience. We saw that in Sydney when they launched back in 2005, but we are very confident in the strategy and the ability of the show to make this move a success. The early performance indicators are encouraging, with commercial market share for KIIS 101.1 above prior year for the half, and we are starting to see audiences settle. K&J syndicated Hour of Power is #1 nationally. K&J remained the #1 catch-up podcast in the country with 16% of downloads coming from Victoria. This is up 11.5% from launch. Moreover, our ground tracking demonstrates with steady improvements across all demographics and brand health metrics, specifically an increase in conversion from awareness through to trial. Since the baseline at show launch, we have experienced a 17% improvement in people saying they will consider listening to the show and a 29% improvement in those who have actually trialed the show. We always like some anecdotal evidence, and the show's mass appeal was demonstrated on the 20th of June when we ran a promotion for every caller to the show that got to [ wear ] won $5,000. We had over 3 million calls to the studio, a phenomenal number of [ entries ]. And in one 5-minute period, we tracked that 28% of them were coming from Victoria. ARN remains a major force in regional media with 47 stations across Australia, serving as pillars of the community. This year, our survey results have been exceptional. Across the 5 surveys we have featured in, we have secured 5 #1 positions in markets like Ballarat, Mackay, Darwin, [ Canberra ] and Ipswich. We had a breakthrough result in Hobart, where we increased listeners by 20% year-on-year. On the Gold Coast, our live and local strategy continues to prove its value where we maintained our #1 position. Just yesterday, our station [ Hot 91.1 FM ], the Sunshine Coast went #1 for the first time. 17% of national media budgets are spent recently and since acquiring a regional network, we have continually grown our share of that ad spend, both on a local and national basis. Since the acquisition in 2020 and despite declines in government spending and a challenging economic environment, local revenues are up 6%. We've grown share of national revenue by 14%, and we are progressing on the path to $20 million per annum revenue target established at purchase. And as regional populations continue to grow, so too does the available audience we are reaching, and we expect to see increased relevance for national advertisers. Our digital audio platform, iHeartRadio, is the most technically advanced and CapEx efficient model in the market. Our unique long-term licensing model means we have a 200-person strong development team, constantly developing the listening experience for our audiences and tech-enabled solutions for our clients, delivering live radio podcast songs and playlists on over 500 platforms across 2,000 different connected devices, iHeart gives audiences a personalized listening experience powered by AI that's modeled on learnings from hundreds of millions of interactions. This same technology means that currently 60% of our digital inventory is addressable. In the first half of the year, we continue to optimize the way we deliver all of audio solutions via digital platforms for our clients. And pleasingly, you can see the results in our profitability. We delivered EBITDA and cash flow positive result in June this year and are forecasting to be EBITDA and cash flow positive for Q4. Dilly?

Thank you, Ciaran. The financial summary slides are presented in a manner consistent with previous announcements. The impact of the exited contract for Cody Outdoor being normalized to allow comparability in the far right column. Additional information is included in the appendices. The statutory reported results for the period is a profit of $5.4 million, down on last year's result, which was buoyed by the gain on disposal of the group's investment in Soprano. Reported group advertising revenues were up $2.2 million or 1%, a solid result in a challenged market. On a pro forma basis, revenues are up 4%, benefiting from 2 months revenue on our new Hong Kong Trams contract that commenced in May 2024. Costs were up $2.4 million or 2%. Net profit before tax was impacted by higher depreciation from the right-of-use asset on our Hong Kong Trams contract of around $3 million and increased interest costs of $3 million that related to $2 million on leases in Hong Kong Trams and also our North Sydney office and $1 million on higher drawn debt levels and increased interest rates. Underlying NPAT attributable to ARN Media shareholders was down $4.2 million or 19% on a pro forma basis with $3.5 million of this attributable to the Cody Outdoor business split fairly evenly between the Western Harbour Tunnel contract and the Hong Kong Tramways contract. The statutory result of $5.4 million is further impacted by $5 million of significant items, net of tax, largely attributable to our share of costs in the proposed SCA transaction. Details of all significant items are included in the appendices. We declared a dividend at interim, fully franked of $0.012 per share. Considering the current market conditions and one-off cash costs in relation to ARN's proposal to acquire SCA, this dividend payout of 70% of NPAT after significant cash items is considered prudent. Performance of the ARN Group for the half year split out by our metro, regional and digital businesses shows total revenues up by 1%. While metro revenues finished back 1%, they are slightly better than market on a consistent share. National regional revenues now account for approximately 35% of regional revenues and were up 21%, materially outperforming the market. Local retail revenues that represent the remainder of the regional business was stable and down 1%. Digital audio and other digital revenues were up 26% in total, delivering revenues in line with the market. On the cost front, revenue-related cost growth reflects the higher cost involved to secure revenue in this tight market. While investments in the launch of the Kyle & Jackie O show into Melbourne increased marketing costs in the half, these were offset by the impact of the cost-out program, specifically reduction of people costs. In mid-2023, we announced an internal review of ARN's operating model. We are now well progressed in the implementation phase of this program to simplify and standardize our radio operations. The objective of this program is to maximize operating margins through the economic cycle and to enable continued investment in line with our strategy. Under the program, annualized permanent cost savings of $10 million or 5.5% of the addressable cost base have been identified with $6.5 million of P&L impact to hit in 2024 and the remainder to come in 2025. A bridge to our targeted total people and operating costs for FY '24 shows our path. Firstly, selectively reinstating certain cost saved in 2023, then adjusting for one-off marketing costs for the launch of the new Melbourne breakfast show and a level of CPI growth. And finally, to capture the expected current year savings from the cost-out program. In total, we're expecting year-on-year people and operating costs to increase by between 2% and 4%. As has been the case in the recent past, should trading conditions deteriorate, we will move quickly and decisively to manage all available cost [ needs. ] During the period, Cody Outdoor successfully tendered for and secured 2 pivotal advertising contracts in the Hong Kong market, which will see the business return to a key player in the market. Announced in February '24, the Hong Kong Tramways Tram Body contract was secured on a 5-year term with a multiyear extension option. In the contract that commenced in May '24 and covers the iconic tram car, circulating key districts of Hong Kong Island and providing advertisers with access to Hong Kong's affluent CBD consumers at scale. In July of 2024, Cody secured and commenced operating the Bus Body advertising contract with The Kowloon Motor Bus Company. KMB operates the largest public bus franchise in Hong Kong, covering over 400 bus routes predominantly on the Kowloon and new territories. Cody Outdoor will be responsible for selling advertising on KMB's fleet, which comprises just under 4,000 buses over the term of the contract that runs to 30 June 2030. On a combined annual basis, we expect to write approximately $65 million of revenue across the 2 contracts once revenues are established. [indiscernible] EBITDA for these contracts is exceeding healthy. This measure failed to show the impact of AASB 16. So we have taken the additional step of calling out EBITDA and net profit before tax to highlight the growth of the balance sheet to write off these assets and liabilities and the increase to depreciation hitting below EBITDA. Finally, there is an impact to the early working capital of bedding down these contracts. While initial -- while rental guarantees are payable upfront, collections are in more generous terms in the ARN business, and we expect a working capital impact of $12 million to $15 million in H2 '24. Our experienced local team are focused on quickly building revenue pipelines. Bus revenues for July and August are well ahead of plan, while TRAM revenues were behind our expectation in July and August, pacing is showing improvement from September. Advertising revenues were up 1% to $9.7 million in the period, with EBITDA up 18% to $5.1 million. The impact of lease accounting of the new Hong Kong Trams contract to remain, resulted in an EBIT loss of $1.3 million, with the right-of-use depreciation on Hong Kong Tramways outstripping its EBITDA contribution. Economic data released at the end of May indicated our spending shifting towards low-cost network media assets and low business confidence impacting the advertising market in Hong Kong. While it's aligned with the initial months, of the trams contract, we are seeing pacing bookings forward for trams improving into September, indicating that our spend is returning to premium assets, such as trams and billboards. ARN remains a highly cash-generative business with operating cash conversion sitting at 65.2%. Cash metrics in the period were impacted by the transaction costs of the proposed SCA acquisition and the beginning of the working capital rebuild in Hong Kong Tramways. This working capital requirement will continue to build into H2. However, collections are keeping pace with revenue, this will moderate. Excluding Hong Kong and SCA transaction costs, operating cash conversion is 101% for the Australian operation. Free cash conversion is hampered by increases in lease payments across Hong Kong Tramways, our new head office premises in North Sydney and our former premises in Macquarie Park. Excluding these items, cash conversion for the Australian operation is at 106%. The working capital rebuild of $12 million to $15 million required in H2 to support the Hong Kong contracts and the timing issue of collections sitting at 90 to 100 days, while lease payments are due monthly and in advance. CapEx is forecasted at $10 million with full year requirements of the network going forward expected to remain unchanged. The balance sheet remains sound with net debt of $86.8 million and slightly elevated leverage owing to the necessary CapEx investment for the Sydney office relocation and our share of the costs associated with the proposed SCA acquisition. As noted already, you will see a marked increase in the right-of-use assets and liabilities on recognition of the Hong Kong Trams contract. Good tenure and access to approximately $70 million of undrawn limits remain on the group facility at 30 June. In line with adopting a prudent capital management approach, we have kept the share buyback on hold. And today, we announced a fully franked dividend of $0.012 per share. 70% of NPAT after significant cash items. Ciaran?

Thanks, Dilly. ARN operates in a sector of traditional media in Australia that is growing audiences. 9 out of 10 Australians listened to audio with this growth not only coming from newer digital formats like music streaming and podcasting, but also from incremental listening to radio. Radio audiences are at an all-time high, reaching 12.2 million people weekly, gaining over 1 million in the last 5 years. Radio reaches 81% of the population with 9 million people listening at breakfast, that's 2.5x more than breakfast TV and 5x more Australians listen to radio than ad support and Spotify. In regional areas, radio remains the [ strong workforce ] to community amid the closure of local newspapers and television stations. We are the only source of local news in many of our regional license areas and the only source of trusted mainstream local media. This relevance is not lost on national advertisers with regional advertising revenue nearly doubling in the past 5 years. Each week, people spent 17.5 hours or 23% of their media consumption with audio. This is the same amount of time people spend with free-to-air TV and against popular belief outstrips the time spent with social by 7%. Of this 17.5 hours, radio still dominates with 84% of metro and 78% of regional populations listening. 27% of the population now streams radio in a digital format and almost 50% listen to podcast each month and spend almost 1 hour per week of the format. These digital formats means we now offer advertisers a highly valuable and measurable audience. This growth of connected listing and addressable audiences will see new markets unlock for radio, broadening to include the video and social budgets. With the opportunity that while audio accounts for 23% of total media consumption, it only gets 9% of advertising. I won't spend too long on this slide. But a very important part of our strategy is the low CapEx partnership with iHeart. Working closely with them, several initiatives are underway that will elevate our addressable audience and monetization solutions for clients by unlocking 7x more high-value inventory. We are also expanding our targeting technologies by integrating conversational targeting and brand suitability capabilities later this quarter. Many of the programs at work are well progressed for release later in the half to ensure that we continue our growth in digital audio in 2025. You've seen today the continued relevance of radio and the acceleration of consumption across digital channels. Combined, this represents a compelling proposition for ARN advertisers. We continue to see the value of investments in key talent across the country as they attract mass audience. We continue to see the value of a highly localized regional strategy, coupled with emerging regional advertiser sectors. We continue to see the value of developing strong addressable audience via live streaming and podcasting, all of which offer our clients scale, trust, precision targeting and measurable campaigns. It is a challenging market, but we are focused on a number of priorities for the half. In our core ARN business, we will continue to drive towards achieving audience and revenue targets, finalizing the operational efficiency plan to deliver the $10 million permanent cost out, progressing further cost-out opportunities, targeting an additional $5 million to $10 million over 2 years, working with Kyle & Jackie O in Melbourne and completing the digital audio content commercial program we are doing to accelerate digital growth in '25. At Cody, the sales teams are working to accelerate Tram Body revenues in Q4, capitalizing on the good pipeline conversion. Ensuring we continue the strong Bus Body forward revenues and set the business up for a successful delivery of fully operational potential in '25. And finally, regarding our SBA shareholding with the increasing pressures from global technology and media platforms and the government regulatory environment that has not kept pace, the industry needs market restructure, and we firmly believe in the merits of consolidation. We've had a number of inbound queries, but there are no updates to the market today, and we are remaining focused on core operations. Finally, to the trading update. At ARN, Q3 revenues forecasted to perform slightly above prior year with digital growth offsetting radio results. Revenues for the half are estimated to be 2% to 3% ahead of the prior year with radio growth of 1% and digital 25%. People and operating costs remain in line with previous guidance of between 2% and 4%. In Hong Kong, Trams revenues for the balance of the year we forecast slightly down to adjust for early trading conditions. Costs contained in line with budget and the trams and bus contracts resulted in an increased right of use lease balances that translate to higher D&A over the term of the leases. Thank you for your time. I'll now open for questions.

[Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from the line of Darren Leung with Macquarie.

I just had 3, please. The first one is just on Metro market share. Obviously, you've got the slides there that show your performance relative to the market. So a bit of market share gain in that regard. But just a feel with where you think you guys are from an absolute number perspective, and what's kind of changed in that to sort of increase that market share piece, just given I know there was a bit of concern around what market share was doing during COVID and the sustainability of that. Should I go on to my second one or...

No, Darren, no problem. I'll take that. So yes, obviously, the -- particularly the strong performance out of Sydney and Melbourne in the half have been -- have delivered good share. It's a very competitive market. Not only are we sort of battling for audience with our competitors, we battled for CPMs and obviously, integrated ideas as well. So we're very pleased with the holding -- slightly improving share performance that we had for the half. It's -- I think what we're seeing in the market at the moment is that there's a challenging advertising conditions. So there's all media operators are fighting hard for whatever share of advertising is out there. So in a competitive market like that, we are pleased with the sort of responses we have to campaigns that are resonating with advertisers and implementing them well. So overall, I think if you look by market, Sydney and Melbourne. They have a good months, bad months as total markets, if you like, but overall, performing similarly. I don't think there's any trend in terms of by market. And as I say, our sales teams are doing a very good job responding to briefs that are very short term in nature, working as hard as we can to ensure that the CPMs are competitive, but obviously not trading too hard, which is not good for any of us. And also then the quality ideas that we have back in market are, as I say, are resonating with clients.

No, that makes sense. It's probably a good segue into my second question and maybe just a bit broader at the industry level. So Ciaran, I noticed in your slides, in your comments, you mentioned the piece around audio being 23% of total media consumption with only 9% of ad budgets. I guess what I observed is kind of known this for a few years now, the industry has been making some reasonable efforts to try to close this gap. But I guess is there anything you think the industry needs to do differently? Or is there a catalyst we should be looking towards to sort of see this gap close in the next 1 to 3 years?

I think for a number of years, we've been talking around the growth of digital audio. And while we've been seeing it on our side, I'm not sure the market probably fully appreciated that digital audio was not just podcasting, it wasn't just for global tech, but actually it was very relevant for operators of radio stations like us in this country. We have spent money investing in our digital audio platform, content creation and tech stack to make sure we deliver solutions for clients. And what we're seeing now is very good strong growth in both audience and advertisers to that. We have 2.8 million registered users, 60% of which are addressable. They are metrics that are actually are very, very valuable in the trading environment in a digital trading environment. And what we do believe is that not only we talk sometimes about radio share amongst ourselves and Nova and SCA. Increasingly, I think we're moving out of that sort of talking about gaining share, sorry, in the radio market to actually looking broader at those video, digital social budgets, which are sizable and over 50% of the advertising market because we're offering a product that is tradable in a digital environment that has addressable audiences that has measurable audiences, and we're combining it actually. And I think this is a really important point. We're combining it with mass reach of radio, which is its traditional strength. And so the growth of digital audio should not and at the moment is not coming from linear broadcast. It shouldn't do because there are still large advertisers out there who value that mass reach, value the cost efficiency of the platform, value the ROI that radio delivers and values the particularly call-to-action metrics that it does. So we have been talking for a while. I think we're now starting to see from an investor perspective, the actual numbers coming through. And I think that's quite heartening.

I understand. Maybe just a final one for me. Just on the Hong Kong business, obviously, some good contract wins there and sort of giving sufficient scale in that front. Can you remind us what the longer-term ambition is for this business? Because my sort of prior understanding was it was kind of up for sale, but it sounds like you're trying to get back into the market again.

Well, we did talk to the fact that there were 2 contracts coming up that we felt would be very beneficial for Cody to win. The business last year and in 2022 was coming towards the tail end of contracts. So having secured these 2 contracts, they're both on a long-term basis means that we can rebuild share and scale in the market in Hong Kong. That's very beneficial from a valuation perspective, and it's a very good result to be able to do it. We have had very good success starting the -- particularly the bus body contract, which is ahead of expectations. Trams is slightly behind. But I think when you're taking on 2 contracts very quickly and moving at pace we're very pleased to see that the pipeline of revenue for the trams into September into Q4 actually is building nicely and focused on the conversion of that, which is good. So I think overall, from a Hong Kong perspective, it is not core. But equally, if we're looking at the opportunities and what to do with the business, having secured these 2 contracts longer term in nature is good for the business.

Our next question comes from the line of Entcho Raykovski with E&P.

My first question is around your trading update. And you've given us your expectations at ARN for the half, which is -- I mean it's quite helpful, but I'm curious as to what gives you the confidence to provide second half expectations for ARN revenues this early. Do you have -- do you feel like you've got better visibility into Q4 than you would normally have? And it seems like you're guiding to a bit of a pickup in Q4 in those comments. So if you could provide us some color on whether there's increased bookings in that -- into the fourth quarter, which is driving your confidence.

Thanks, Entcho. I think obviously, 2 things on that. We look at the briefing activity that's there and the pipeline is good. Now it doesn't always translate into a sign-off. But I would say the briefing activity is strong. Also remember that, that quarter 4 last year for radio was back quite a bit. So looking at contract clients, looking at the briefing activity, yes, there still is uncertainty. But we believe that the growth that we put in there is achievable based on sort of the contract business, say, and the pipeline of activity.

Okay. Great. I mean just a related question to that. Maybe it's difficult for you to see, but have you seen a negative impact on bookings in July, August as a result of, say, the Olympics sucking money into TV? Like are there any other one-off factors that perhaps we need to think about, which will drive a better trajectory into the fourth quarter?

I think the radio market performed okay for June, July, the sort of -- with radio, the impact of big events like Olympics, is not as significant. So I wouldn't think any special event like that drove an outcome for radio.

Okay. Fair enough. And then I mean you've mentioned that no updates today in relation to the SCA transaction. But I don't know if you can elaborate on how you're thinking about your options from here. And assuming the transaction doesn't go ahead, would you explore discussions with other media operators potentially outside of radio?

Well, first of all, in terms of SCA, obviously, we're disappointed that, that didn't progress. There have been a number of inbound calls, but I say there's no updates for the market today on that. We are a firm believer in consolidation and the need for consolidation. We're fighting global tech increasingly for ad dollars and audiences and share of listening and share of dollars. The regulatory framework that we operate in this country hasn't kept pace with technological change, and that needs change. But we're not going to rely on that for consolidation. The merits of what we put forward still hold true. In terms of consolidation with other media operators, I think from our perspective, we're looking and focusing on the audio market is what we can do. But we're also focused on the core business, and we're maintaining the strength of the performance of ARN particularly is really important to us. But as I say, broader consolidation is something that I think the media industry is going to talk about increasingly now for the next period of time.

Okay. Maybe just a very final one. This is just a clarification. In relation to Cody -- in addition to the working capital impact, do you expect CapEx will need to step up at Cody in FY '25, given the contract wins? Or is that fairly minimal and no real impact on Cody CapEx and growth CapEx?

No. It's very, very, very minimal CapEx for these 2 contracts, which is also pleasing. So no impact at all.

[Operator Instructions] Our next question comes from the line of [ Elsa Lee ] with UBS.

I've got 3 questions, and I'll just fire them one at a time. Firstly, on the Hong Kong contract, I guess, how much of the recent 2 Hong Kong contracts were factored into the first half revenue? And then just on the trading update, how much of the Hong Kong Trams revenue were adjusted down for the year due to early trading conditions? And I guess, more broadly on what were those early trading conditions?

Obviously, there's 2 Hong Kong Trams contracts that are there, the bus body and the trams. The bus body performed above expectations that the trams were slightly behind. I think because of the upfront cash payments that are in them, the impact and the flow-through to EBIT obviously was there. We're seeing for the back quarter an increase -- increased improvement in [ pacing ] for trams. And if I could actually [ Eliza ], just because Andrew is not here today at short notice, so apologies. If I can take that on note and come back to you because I mean looking back to the market in terms of the specific number around that you're looking for, it's just that, obviously, Andrew would have that. And I don't have that at the moment. Sorry.

Yes. No, that's all good. And then my second question follows on from Darren's question on the metro market share piece. I was just wondering how much of that improvement, it was driven by the Kyle & Jackie O Show launching in Melbourne?

Well, Kyle & Jackie O already launched in April. So there's only 2 months, if you like, of share growth for Kyle & Jackie O. But in the run-up to that and the share for the first half was obviously [ helped ]. I think it's too early. And I think there's an expectation amongst a lot of people that Kyle & Jackie O are going to go, number one, straightaway. That was never built into our business plan. We know it takes time. They're new to the markets, they're not as well-known as they are in Sydney. They've had over 15 years of relevance and broadcasting in Sydney. So I think it's good trading from our perspective in Melbourne, very strong trading by the sales teams down there. We obviously were delighted to secure Chemist Warehouse as a foundation sponsor. And we're pleased with the progress that we're making and the interest that is there in the show.

Yes. That's fair enough. And then lastly, on digital audio EBITDA forecasting breakeven fourth quarter, I guess how do we get comfort on future investment levels, given the competitive landscape from other digital platforms?

2 things on that. [ Eliza ], I think, first of all, if you look at our license agreement with iHeartRadio, we pay, as we've called out many times before, a fixed license fee about $1 million, that gives us access to all of the back-end technology, the tech stack, the product development, the AI, the improved listening experience, and we're on the same road map as our -- the guys in the U.S., which is terrific. So from our perspective, the ability to not have to spend to fund a platform development and BAU CapEx, things like that, let alone what it would cost to upgrade is covered for in our license fees. So we're pleased with that. I would say that a lot of the investments we've made around the content, the sales teams have already been done. I think if we look to continue to expand to next year, we may look to hire some more salespeople, particularly to go after those digital budgets. But overall, that will be an OpEx expense that will be reviewed according to performance. So I think upfront investment is probably nearly done, and that's a great thing in terms of profitability for digital audio.

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm showing no further questions in the queue. I would now like to turn the call back over to Ciaran for closing remarks.

Thank you, everybody. Thanks for your time. Dilly and I will be around today to those meeting and tomorrow. We look forward to seeing you. Thank you.

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.