AS Tallink Grupp (TAL1T) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you all for taking interest in today's webinar and overview of Tallink Group's third quarter results. Today, the results will be presented by a member of the Management Board, Harri Hanschmidt; member of Management Board, Margus Schults; and Financial Director, Joonas Joost. Many thanks to the investors who have sent their question to us in advance. We will address those at the end of the presentation. And as always, it is also possible to ask questions during the webinar by writing the question in the right hand -- in the question box on the right-hand side of the webinar screen. And that concludes the introduction. And now I will give the word to Harri Hanschmidt.

Thank you very much, Joonas. Hello to everyone from my side. My name is Harri Hanschmidt. I'm a Management Board member for Tallink Group. Thank you for tuning in to the third quarter financial results of Tallink Group. First time since the beginning of the pandemic, we have seen a profitable quarter. We managed to do EUR 5 billion positive result in Q3. And we believe this is a good sign that we have managed to adapt the business model to the difficult business environment that is still ongoing. We clearly see willingness to travel that was hampered by the health concerns regarding COVID-19 and different restrictions and uncertainties. The pandemic still has a very strong effect on our business and business environment because not all the restrictions have ended. Currently, we see a higher number of COVID infections in Estonia and Latvia. The situation is much better in Finland and Sweden. But right now, travel is possible, and people use the opportunity to travel. During the third quarter, we only had one vessel, the Isabelle, from the Latvia and the Sweden route that did not operate. All other vessels were either on their routes operating or were chartered out. And this is what you can clearly see in the positive result on the profit level and strong cash flow level. However, Q3 is always our strongest quarter and the profits have been much higher in the past. So although it's optimistic we still have very difficult quarters ahead of us. We are right now entering the -- or have entered the low season, and the pandemic numbers are also going up. So, okay. But maybe we move -- okay, now we have that slide in front of us already. Just to remind, Tallink Group is trading European provider inflation and business travel and sea transportation services in the Baltic Sea region. We own a fleet of 15 vessels. We operate 7 ferry routes, 1 route right now is suspended, the Riga route -- Riga-Stockholm route. We also operate 4 hotels right now, Tallink Hotel Riga has been suspended for 2021. Past year our revenues were EUR 443 million. We transported 3.7 million passengers and 360,000 cargo units with a EUR 1.5 billion asset base. This is mainly the vessels. We have currently about 4,500 employees and 2.8 million loyal customer members in our Club One Program. So if we take a look at the developments and key facts of the third quarter, I already mentioned the extensive impact of lingering corona pandemic, but also there have been restrict -- many restrictions lifted by the government. There is -- has been more willingness to travel. We have restarted the Tallink-Stockholm route with Baltic Queen and the Helsinki-Stockholm route with Silja Symphony and Silja Serenade. Also, Victoria and Romantika were on short-term charter agreements and operated briefly in the Mediterranean Sea in July and September. We also had christening of our new LNG shuttle vessel MyStar that is being built in Roma and will be in operation in next spring. We did our public share issue, where we issued 73 million or almost 74 million new shares and raised EUR 34.6 million capital to improve our capital structure and have additional liquidity for the coming low season. We also decided to sell the Baltic retail, our fashion retail business to run to focus more on the core business. We have had charter agreements for Silja Europa and Romantika as a combination vessels in Scotland in October and also November. As an overview for the third quarter, we can see there were less passengers, but the spending onboard was improved and there were more passengers with passenger cars. So we could see a higher ticket number and higher onboard spending number. Revenue was affected by COVID-19. And we had a limited effect on the cargo operations. Cargo operations has been more or less stable throughout the pandemic. We also had 13% less departures compared to the third quarter in the past years same time. Our cost of sales decreased by 4%. We have extensive cost control. We only do the investments that are necessary to keep the ships in good health. Administrative and marketing costs decreased by 6% to EUR 1.2 million. Our EBITDA was EUR 35.1 million, and our net profit was EUR 5.5 million. If you look at revenue development by the operating segments, then we can see that compared to the third quarter last year, the most revenue increases came from the restaurant shop sales and ticket sales and also from the income from the charter contracts. And other sales include hotel sales, web store sales and so forth. Our revenue structure in third quarter looked very much like our classic revenue in the past has been, and I think this is a good sign. Most of the revenues come from onboard sales from the restaurants and shop sales, 26% from ticket, 13% from cargo, and we had more charter revenue than usual. And on Slide 7, we can see the revenue development by geographical segments. Estonia and Finland route was pretty much the last route that was opened, there were still restrictions in place during the summer. And even after the restrictions ended in June, there was instantly, not so much willingness to travel, and travel started to picking up during the quarter. Estonian-Sweden route made a good season, and there is right now no operation between Latvia-Sweden. And Finland-Sweden also made good results. And then we see the charter revenues in the other segment. On Page 8, we can see the seasonality in here. I would like to remind you that we are in the high see -- we are reporting right now the high season. And typically, in the high season, we have about almost 3 million passengers. This time, we had 1 million passengers. So there has been quite a lot of cost cutting and therefore, cargo looks quite usual to our model. Revenues, EUR 170 million and on the EBITDA level, EUR 35 million, but you can remember that in 2019, it was EUR 83 million. So we still have a long way to go with recovery. And here, we can see also the dynamics of high seasonality on the profit level. So first time profit during the pandemic, but right now, then we will have the low season. I will give now floor to Joonas Joost, who will continue with the presentation.

Thank you, Harri. And let's quickly run through the financials in some more detail. So as mentioned, Q3, the high season quarter and in general, typically, the most profitable quarter of our business model. And this year, we managed to increase the sales, yes, to EUR 170 million, obviously better than last year's results. But as a reminder, we were still 41% lower than the revenues achieved in the high season quarter in 2019. The cost of sales slipped a bit, however decreased compared to last year. And line by line, effectively all of the cost lines decreased with the exception of fuel costs due to the fact that the fuel prices have been rising quite much compared to the last year. Marketing expenses and administrative expenses overall remained fairly similar level close to last year's result. Actually slightly lower, both marketing expenses and administrative expenses. And due to the fact that we had the share capital issue in this quarter, the results also include about EUR 0.5 million expenses -- one-off expenses related to the share capital issue in this quarter. And I would also stress that in the high season quarter, we did receive only very limited government assistance, about EUR 300,000 in this year. Last year, the government assistance was in third quarter, EUR 4.6 million. Government assistance is reported on the other operating income. So the difference mainly here compared to last year is a decrease in the aid we received. But we feel that it's still positive that we managed EUR 35 million EBITDA result with a margin of 20.6%, which is significantly better than the last year's result. Net result, positive, EUR 5.5 million. But again, in a normal year we would -- in 2019, the Q3 result was EUR 55 million net profit. Hence, actually, when we're looking at the 2019 full year results, then all of it was effectively earned in the Q3 and the summer months. Due to the fact that, operationally, the quarter was positive for us, we managed to end the quarter also with a positive operating cash flows of EUR 24 million. The capital expenditure was -- continued to be extremely low focusing only on the most critical items. Expenditure this year was only EUR 4 million. Last year, we were also making investments and prepayments to the new LNG vessel, MyStar, which resulted in higher capital expenditure last year. And this year, we also see that asset disposal has a positive impact of around EUR 1 million. And most of this has to do with the disposal of the subsidiary Baltic Retail O and exit from the clothing retail business on land. When we are focusing on the debt financing, then the net impact of debt financing in this quarter was EUR 55 million. And quite a big change in the position was drawing of EUR 90 million Nordic Investment Bank working capital loan over the course of third quarter. But the net impact is lower as the row also includes changes in the overdraft balances. The higher debt burden, which we have seen since the onset of the COVID pandemic has also brought about higher interest expenses. Interest costs, together with other financial items, in this quarter was EUR 6 million. A year ago, the figure was only EUR 4 million. And as Harri mentioned, we had increase of share capital due to the share issue this quarter nearly EUR 35 million. So overall, due to both strong positive operating results, new debt and new equity capital, the change in cash in this quarter was strong and amounted to EUR 105 million. And as a result of the increase in cash, also, the total assets now again increased EUR 1.6 billion. However, as well, the liabilities have increased. And overall, the total liability balance also increased -- exceeds EUR 900 million. After profitable quarter and issue of new shares in new equity capital, the shareholders' equity totals just under EUR 700 million, at EUR 696 million. Net debt stands at EUR 660 million. Equity and asset ratio remains continuously at 43%. And the book value per share is EUR 0.94. When we look together, the cash balance and also the amount of unused overdraft, then the total liquidity stood at nearly EUR 253 million at the end of third quarter. And as mentioned, there were some sizable changes in the loans during the quarter. So the total interest-bearing loans, together with the outstanding overdraft amounted to EUR 689 million, of which the long-term loans amounted to EUR 663 million and the outstanding overdraft balance, which is in use, was EUR 26 million. And as a reminder, the vessel MyStar, which was christened in this quarter is expected to be completed and delivered to us in next year. The financing of the vessel -- the loan financing has been secured, and it will be drawn on the delivery of the vessel. And I will now pass on the microphone to Margus, who would discuss briefly about the events after the reporting period and the outlook.

Thank you, Joonas. Yes, my name is Margus Schults, and I am member of the Management Board in Tallink Group and responsible for Finnish operations in Tallink. So there have been no major events after the reporting period. We know that we are entering the low season in normal year. And of course, in this time, this low season will be affected more by different external factors like COVID situation, speed of vaccination in our major home markets and also, of course, by different authorities, which built on our operations. We can say that overall, the vaccination has helped a lot comparing last autumn or last spring time. We can see definitely positive sentiment in people's behavior in all our home markets. We can treat the different travel industry companies, hotel companies restaurant companies report that there have been clearly interest of people and consumers to come back to travel or consume food. And therefore, we, of course, in somewhat positively ahead of us up. On the other hand, we know that COVID situation is still severe in some of our home markets, like in Estonia and Latvia. And even we don't expect any major travel restrictions put by governments for vaccinated people or people who have had COVID during the last 6 months, we still know that there are some client groups which are very careful yet to travel or to participate in different events. Therefore, we do not think that normal so to say business will be restored in the coming months. And knowing that, of course, we are working ahead with different other alternatives for our vessels. We know that we have routes which are suspended, and we have some routes, which have reduced capacity during Q1. And we are, therefore, exploring different opportunities for renting chartering vessels to third parties like we had opportunity to do for Silja Europa and Romantika during October and November this year. And also we continue, of course, to work with opening, we had after reporting period 1 restaurant opened in Vilnius. And we expect 4 more restaurants will be opened during Q4 in Latvia and Lithuania. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you, Margus, for the overview. This now concludes the presentation part of the webinar. And we will now proceed to the questions and answer section. And we would start with the questions which were sent to us by e-mail and in writing prior to the webinar.

So the first question is that the Tallink's biggest value for me as an investor is the fact that the company's equity is higher than its market value. What is worrying is the fact that from quarter-to-quarter, companies losing money and historically, we are facing quarters where Tallink is losing the most amount of money. And the next year does not promise fewer restrictions in the society. What are the red lines below which assets would be either partially or fully sold? How can I as an investor be sure that my money will just not melt with all these losses?

Yes. I will maybe answer this one. The COVID situation has had significant negative impact on our results since March 2020 and with a low level of vaccinations and high level of infections in the hospitalizations in Estonia and Latvia it does continue to have a negative effect in at least the coming months, but hopefully not for the whole year next year or forever. So no doubt, the low season will be difficult. And when the company makes a negative profit, and this is reflected in the equity, and there is nothing to do about this. But we now made the first profit and hope to make more profitable quarters in the future as well. Looking forward to spring 2022, then we are heading into the start of the high season with generally higher level of vaccinations than we did in 2020 or 2021. And we are optimistic that these quarters will be overall better for our business and then for all businesses and in travel sector. Well, and also the management and Supervisory Board are also investors of the company. So the interests are aligned so far, the management board and the supervisory board have opted not to sell the assets and well partially can't sell anything. It's -- but what we have done is we have found many opportunities for chartering the vessels. And this already has brought an impact to the results. And if day is still there where we have to sell something, then we will obviously let everybody know. But theoretically, all the vessels are always available for selling -- we can only sell them, but I guess we still believe it's better to use them long term there, tailor-made and built for this region, have high class and very high quality. So to just sell something too easy, will not be in the best interest of the business. Thank you.

Thank you, Harri. The next question, average ticket price looks to have increased substantially. Please elaborate the reasons and will this continue?

And Yes. The ticket prices are obviously based on demand and also based on which quarter we are in based on passenger mix, also if people are traveling more with passenger cars or more by foot. So here, we have seen a positive trend, but it will be different for every quarter, and it will be very much dependent on demand.

Thank you. Do you foresee meaningful support measures in the last quarter of this year and the first half of next year?

Well, we cannot foresee support measures if currently, there is this crisis ongoing, and the government offers it, we are happy to receive it. And I think it's quite important that this sector survive. But obviously, we see that there is a decline in government support, and in the third quarter, we did see already quite little support. But if the winter situation should be worse, we do hope that there will be different support measures available. And we can use them, but our business needs to be sustainable also without support in the future.

Thank you. Should we expect income from charter of vessels to continue at Q3 level in Q4? When will the level normalize under current agreements? I would comment that in third quarter, in addition to the Atlantic region, which is a long-term charter agreement in third quarter, we had Victoria and Romantika both chartered out effectively for the entire duration of the quarter. So this was quite strongly supporting the charter revenues this quarter. But however, this deal has now been concluded and ended. So there will be not support from this deal anymore. However, as we've said that at the end of the -- at the end of September, we signed agreements charter Silja Europa and Romantika out for another short-term charter in the fourth quarter. [Audio Gap] and the entire months. So I could comment that due to the fact that there is additional charters in Q4, the result should be higher than in Q1. But due to lower duration, it will likely be difficult to have the same level as in Q3. But as we are continuously looking to find opportunities to employ the vessels, then it's difficult to forecast sort of what would be a normalized level or when good situation normalize. And the next question is, should we expect positive operating profit to continue in Q4 and H1? So we haven't generally been providing any financial guidance. But I think it makes sense to bear in mind that we have, in general, very seasonal business. And right now, and in addition to entering the low season, we are also facing additional risks from the development of COVID. And as Q3 is typically our most profitable quarter and the situation with the COVID-19 is not good in Estonia, so it will have its negative impact in the Q4 results. And just as a reminder, if you think about the first half results, then before COVID, looking at 2019, then our operating profit in the first half was only EUR 6.5 million. So I think this should give some indication. And obviously, it depends whether the situation with the COVID and restrictions will remain in the coming months. The next question is, Finland has 2, 3 different places with travel restrictions recommendations, which is quite confusing. In your view, which source is the most important? And what is the recommendation from that source currently?

Yes, that's true that corporate recommendation for consumers to travel or not to travel have been quite confusing on periods of the COVID pandemic and not only in Finland, but I'd say also in the other countries. I would say that for Finnish traveling abroad, the most relevant source of information is Minister of Foreign Affairs home page, and they are considering travel restrictions and recommendations based on health authority, recommendation on that country, but also on other security development on that country. And at the moment, the recommendation overall is that within European Union, it is fine to travel for vaccinated people and people who have had their COVID during the last 6 months. So overall recommendation is that you can travel without any major concerns. And also, I understand the background of Russia and Estonia has not been somehow highlighted as a red country in this recommendation. So at the moment, Head of Health Authority, Mika Salminen said in the beginning of this year -- this week in the media said it's safe if you travel -- if you are vaccinated to travel to Estonia. When it comes to foreign people, non-Finnish coming to Finland, then the best probably is to follow Ministry of Social Affairs or Health Authority home page and currently requirement is that you should have a vaccinated -- proof of vaccination or proof of past COVID during 6 months or test -- negative test with you. This, at the moment, this requirement to continuous till the end of the year. It has been already prolonged several times, and there might be possibility is that it will be prolonged also over the year-end. But unless you have these documents, you can't freely travel to Finland. Thank you.

Thank you. There's another question concerning the sentiment, the Finnish passenger side, I'll ask this one now. And then the question is, what is the Finnish passenger sentiment in the situation when the Finnish media has been communicating that medical assistance may not be accessible in Estonia? So what is the communication between the Finnish state authorities and Estonian authorities on the topic of traveling to Estonia?

Yes. Over our sentiment in media and our population, I think, is mixed. Definitely people who after -- who want to travel to the neighborhood countries because it's probably the easiest and the most safe way to travel. And those people after the recommendation that within EU, it's safe to travel, they started to come also to our vessels. Then as I mentioned, definitely, there is a group of people who are more careful and even the official recommendation is now that it's fine to travel for vaccinated. They want to wait a little bit longer and prefer to stay home. So I personally, as I follow Finnish Media on daily basis, I would say that it's not as dark sentiment as you might imagine. But of course, everybody says that we should have a vaccination and you should follow common sense and security when you go to Estonia. And regarding authorities, of course, I cannot comment how much cooperation is there between Estonian and Finnish authorities, but we have a full cooperation with authorities in both countries. And we are represented as a whole industry, shipping industry in Finland and also in Estonia. And of course, we give our opinions when different restrictions or bans have been implemented during the last 1.5 years. And we, of course, continue the dialogue in order to find the best place -- the best place for safe traveling. Thank you.

Thank you. Is traveling between Finland and Sweden trending up, giving consideration to the high level of vaccinations in both of those countries? And Yes, I would say that in general, the answer is yes, that we have seen the high level of vaccinations provide an increased interest for traveling as well most recently, the high level of infections and hospitalizations in Finland -- sorry, in Estonia also seems to have an interest of -- a less interest in travel to Estonia and more to Sweden. The next question would be, when will fuel price fixing agreements end?

We currently have no fixing agreements. The last one ended last year, so we are buying fuel in market or spot price in 2021.

The next question concerns related part transactions. For which services goods -- the purchase of which services and goods is the biggest contributor in those transactions? So as a largest group, it's rent payments of outers, logistics centers and office buildings. But the single largest item is the energy cost for -- from Ice Class in relation to the LNG and operation of Megastar. And this quarter, we were conducting also COVID-19 testing services onboard of the vessels. So there is some increase from those services, which were not there a year ago. Next question. What is reflected in other sales in addition to chartering? And what increased the other sales in Q3? So that's true that the chartering revenues contributed the most to the increase in the other sales. And the rest is rising from several various items. There isn't any specific one to highlight too strongly. These are mostly all related to retail activities, including web shop sales, restaurant sales and other sales activities. And these also reflect increased advertising sales revenue, which is related in turn to the onboard shop sales activities. There was also a slight sales in -- slight increase in the hotel sales. And also the intra-group eliminations are also accounted in this segment, and there were less of those this year compared to last year. Next question. How is Tallink Taxi performing in a situation when there are a lot of cheap service providers on the market?

Yes. Thank you, Joonas. I will take this one. Just to remind that Tallink owns 34% of the Tallink Taxi company. The company has about 80 taxis right now. And during the crisis was mostly doing business-to-business client transportation. And right now, it has -- the taxis are more gaining market share on the retail market. The taxi business is important for us because when hundreds of -- or thousands of people arrive in the port, there is always not enough ways to transfer to the hotel or somewhere else. And so -- but it's -- overall, it's a very small part. And obviously, the taxi business has been negatively affected by the reduced amount of tourists, but it definitely serves its purpose. Yes. That's about it.

Thank you. The next question is, maybe you said it, but could you please repeat what have been the cuts and costs under the line cost of sales, especially compared to 2020 and 2019? And yes, I'll reiterate that compared to the third quarter of 2020, effectively all of the costs in the cost of sales were declining with the exception of the fuel cost due to the fact that the fuel prices were higher compared to 2019 due to the significantly lower business volumes and overall cost reductions, all cost items were lower. And here, the only exception perhaps is the depreciation and the amortization expense, which has remained throughout the years, fairly similar level. And the next question. Why did you draw down the remainder of the NIB loan of EUR 90 million fully in Q3? Do you see complicated quarters coming? And the answer is, in a way, yes, we see that we are heading into the off season, and coming months are clearly not as strong as were the summer months. But the other part is that the loan had also the guarantee of Ministry of Finland -- Minister of Finance in Finland. Due to that factor of legal restrictions related to the loan, so the loan wasn't due to regulatory reasons available indefinitely. So the next question is maybe you could add some color on the Burger King contribution to group sales this quarter. From our -- my side, I would just say that the Burger King franchise, which is also impacted negatively by the COVID and the restrictions still relative to the entire group is very limited. I don't know, Harri, if you want to comment to that anything.

I believe right now, we have 11 restaurants open and this year, we opened another 5. So it is limited. Obviously, we -- Burger King is affected by the restrictions, especially right now in Latvia, where there are -- again, there is a curfew and shopping centers are restricted or closed, et cetera. But I believe most restaurants are positive on the EBITDA level, but it's still -- we are still starting this business. And when we have about, I think, 20 restaurants, then we can start to better measure. But we still believe strongly in the Burger King business. This is the first business that we are able to do throughout the Baltics and then we right now keep opening the next restaurants. And definitely, we'll see a boost in sales when the pandemic also recedes.

Thank you. The next two questions concerned, the Finland-Sweden routes. So I will address those to Margus. So first question is, how will the Helsinki-Stockholm routes operate in the first quarter, 1 or 2 vessels or none?

Yes, we are, of course, constantly monitoring the situation and based on the development of external environment and demand of customers, we make our adjustments and decisions. Currently, we plan to operate most of time of Q1 with this route with 1 vessel, Silja Symphony but we are currently assessing and the need of having baby for certain higher demand periods like winter holidays, 2 vessels on set route and this is based on maybe quite encouraging results what we had during the Autumn holidays now in October on set route.

Thank you. And the next question concerns Turku-Stockholm route. Will you make any changes to the Turku-Stockholm route next year as the competition will increase?

At the moment, we don't plan any changes. Turku-Stockholm route is operating until year-end based on the support from Traficom, which is a Finnish state authority. And therefore the insurers at Finland, which have 80% of import and export traveling on sea, will remain also connected to the rest of Europe during COVID pandemic time. So we have had that this support already in place for more than 1 year, and we expect also that government will prolong this at least in the first half of last year -- next year, sorry, when the high season has not yet started. We had also the same situation in 2014, when our competitor brought new vessel named [ Glory ] to set route and we didn't make any changes but we tried to answer to the competition with service level, service quality entertainment and of course, we tried to make the same also this time. So no, at the moment, no plans to make any changes.

Thank you. Next question. Do you currently foresee any other chartering opportunities in Q4 or for first quarter '22?

We cannot comment on future charter contracts. But we have said that, especially when we have ships available, we would like them to always work. If they're not on the route, then they should be chartered out. So we will definitely keep our eyes open and also let investors know first thing when the charter contract actually is signed. So let's see.

And just as a reminder, the Silja Europa and the Romantika are being chartered out in short-term deal in Q4. Next question. Given the inflationary environment, how much higher would the price be for MyStar today?

This is, I think, a very difficult question for us to answer and should be directed to the factories, but I'm pretty sure it would not be cheaper because steel prices are up and then the electronic prices are up, and not only are the prices up, but the commodities are not always available when it's needed and so forth. So I think ship building definitely is right now challenging, and we are very happy that we ordered MyStar when we did, and that is almost ready.

Thank you. Next question, are there any concerns to let the vessel be chartered outside Europe? Your competitors say it might affect the condition of the vessel?

Well, charter contracts are thrown out very carefully, and there are insurances and all rights of restrictions regarding the charter contracts. So when we give out the vessel, we have to get it back in same order. So whoever charters first is very carefully chosen, and not everybody can charter out vessels. There has to be a track record and so forth. So I don't think this is a concern. And our ships have been chartered out and currently are as well. One is in Canada, Silja Europa, previously has been in Australia, and we have received a ship just in fine condition. So I don't think this is a special concern.

Thank you. Question. How much does competition with Viking and Aker affect the survival in COVID times compared to previous years?

If I can answer?

Yes. Go ahead Margus.

Yes. So yes, basically, of course, we have always said that, first of all, we are not competing only with Viking Line or Aker Line. Basically already many years, we are competing for the free time of customer and therefore, we are competing our competitors also on Netflix and we intend on Facebook, et cetera, et cetera. So I don't think landscape -- competition landscape has been changing or will be changed too much comparing what has been the landscape during the years before fair prices. So therefore, it's very important that the vessels are green because consumers are to have less CO2 emission. Therefore, it's important that vessel have new concept of service and entertainment where we have, in the past, invested quite a lot. So what I want to say is that even yes, there are definitely further attempts to make very low ticket price, but competition is much more complicated and a single ticket price is not the only thing which counts when a consumer makes a purchase decision as there are many more other things to consider. And therefore, I don't think that situation of competition will be so much different from the daily time.

Thank you. And another question is, you have repeated multiple times, and it is also obvious that the COVID situation has affected everything from transport, cargo transport and even hotels and taxi transport. It is also obvious that this COVID-19 virus is here to stay. What are your actions to increase traveling even if this COVID Virus will never go away?

Well, from our perspective, although it's terrible pandemic for our business, COVID virus is not main reason that it's a very challenging environment. It's the endless different restrictions and rules. If the COVID virus will stay, and so most likely, it looks like it does, people will have many tools to fight it. We will have, hopefully, everybody vaccinated. We will hopefully also receive different medications for it, not only the vaccinations, and it will not be a show-stopping medical problem, where the hospitals are overwhelmed and so on. And so yes, there are other viruses as well, there is a few that's also terrible virus. And we have learned to live with it. So I guess, something like that should happen relatively soon as well. And then we will not be talking about coronavirus anymore. We will be talking about other issues that affect the business, but we already see today that we can offer a very safe travel experience and then vaccinated people used and then have no issues. So hopefully, this situation goes -- improves by time.

Thank you, Harri. With that, we've exhausted all the questions, and we've exhausted almost an hour. So thank you very much for your time and attention and questions and interest. And the next webinar -- we'll meet in the next webinar most likely at the end of February. Thank you very much. Goodbye.

Thank you, everyone.

Thank you. Buh-bye.