Ascendis Health Limited (ASC) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the group recapitalization update. Just a heads-up on what will happen today. The SENS announcement went out earlier this morning. We've put in this to go and talk through some of the detail on the transaction, it's a complex deal. And then later this afternoon, we have a number of one-on-ones setup throughout the day. And to the extent that we don't capture all the Q&A or some issues remain unresolved, we will certainly address them then. Let me get right into it. So what are we trying to achieve here? Yes, I think the fundamental principle here is this transaction is sold through an unsustainable capital structure. How do we know it's unsustainable because the PIK, the part of the interest that is charged on the debt grows by more than the market cap every 6 months. This permanently resets that. And it's important to also note that the company has pursued multiple alternative structures before deciding that this is the most appropriate and best alternative under the circumstances. It is a difficult situation, but the management and the Board believe that this is the best way to solve it. Just going to some of the specific bullet points on the page. The transaction is going to be a swap of debt for the operating assets, so not for shares in Ascendis, but into the underlying assets. I'll give you some color as to exactly what that looks like a bit later on in the slides. It carries the unanimous support of management, again it's the best possible outcome given the alternatives on the table. Now those who were on the divestment program and second, the business risk and we know in that scenario, the value returned to shareholders is limited. And the last bullet is just one for good governance. So the Board has elected to obtain a fair and reasonable on this transaction. And if we try and summarize it that bullet or that strip at the bottom says, this gives us optionality. It allows us to protect the value of the remaining South African assets and protect all stakeholder interest. Now those are shareholders, creditors, suppliers, customers, employees. I just want to thank our customers, our creditors and employees for walking this journey with us now. And I think as we pivot from the stabilized point of the 3-year balance sheet or the 3-year strategy to optimize and monetize, I think our energies can be turned in a very different manner. So I like pictures as opposed to words. What we've set out here is those first 2 blocks are what we saw, what you saw at the half year results on the 31st of March. The red on the left was all the stuff that we had to sell during the divestment process. So the only 2 assets that we're going to be left were Consumer Brands and Pharma. Block in the middle is cut and paste from the half year results. But fast forward to where we are now, April, whatever it is, April, May, the blocks in red still remain for sale. But the first astricts, I want to draw your attention to, is Farmalider. So what we've agreed to there is when that business exits, we will share 50-50 in the proceeds above predetermined number. So that's more money potentially coming in to reduce debt. And secondly, by not having Farmalider on the balance sheet, we won't have to recognize EUR 15.3 million of additional debt. That's important from a day 1 debt solvency requirement. So no debt, but upside in the future sale of the asset. The blue is what we get to keep. So Consumer Brands and Pharma remain very much inside a tent. And importantly, Medical Devices, excluding RCA Romania, we've received an expression of interest or an unsolicited offer for the business in December. We believe that RCA, which is this business that supplies the ventilators and the nasal high-flow devices and the consumables that go around it, plays very strongly into COVID. We believe that may be at top of the cycle. And in terms of a return of value to extinguished debt, it's a good opportunity now to exit that particular set of licenses, but we remain with some very interesting licenses beyond that, and I'll come to that in a second. So here are the words -- picture was in the previous slide, here are the words. So what lenders are swapping their debt for is 100% in Remedica, the shares of Remedica; 100% in Sun Wave Pharma; and the group's 49% shareholding in Farmalider with the astricts of the upside sharing arrangement and not having to account for the debt. The other piece that is important is that the proceeds from the sale of Animal Health, Biosciences and RCA will go to extinguish debt. Those 4 buckets, if you will, go to the lenders. What stays with the senders is the sum of the Medical Devices business, say if you exclude RCA, you are left with TSG, The scientific Group; SI, Surgical Innovations; and Ortho-Xact, and I'll come on to that a bit later in the Q&A.; consumer Brands and Pharma. Importantly, for any business in order to operate in an orderly environment, you need liquidity. And what the lenders have given us are 2 facilities. One is the equivalent of EUR 20 million. And by today's money, it will be in rands, it's around ZAR 350 million. That's new money for liquidity to fund costs and also to fund peaks and troughs in the working capital cycle. And a 2-year term loan of around EUR 15 million, that's around ZAR 260 million to pay off the majority of all of the capitalized interest, which is around ZAR 220 million and some transaction costs. Why is this better than the path that we were originally on the divestment program? Well, I think the first point is liquidity. We've always said that I think we used the analogy of driving a Ferrari with the handbrake on. If you don't have access to liquidity, it's difficult to grow. And what this liquidity pool provides for us is time and optionality to go after the things that matter in the remaining underlying businesses of the actionable insights that we can now bring to bear on making those businesses the best version of themselves. Secondly, it reduces complexity. We've gone from 8 businesses in different jurisdictions with different operating models in different parts of the world to 3 South African-based operations. On Medical Devices, we mentioned, excluding RCA, we keep the remaining 3 businesses. We keep the upside on Farmalider and don't have to account for the debt. And given the lack of actionable alternatives, against which we have considered this transaction, this is a better outcome. Right. What if we don't implement this transaction? Remember, at the interim as we said there is a 2-hurdle process. The one is the point we're at now, which is to get Board approval, which we've got. The next is shareholder approval. If we don't get shareholder approval or if the transaction is not implemented for another reason, then lenders are entitled to enforce their rights. What that means is they will then enforce in Europe and enter into business rescue here in South Africa. It is a creditor approved business rescue plan, and that will lead to the sale of assets. Now when you are selling assets under a BR process, typically don't get full value discovery. And there is a strong likelihood that the debt will be greater than the value of the assets that have brought back to the center to extinguish that debt. The Board has engaged a business rescue practitioner to prepare for an orderly business rescue if shareholder is not secured. And that is a fiduciary obligation the board has. We can't get to a shareholder vote. And it's voted down and the business then says what now. So we need to have a backup plan that allows for an orderly transition in the event, and in my view, hopefully unlikely event that we don't get shareholder approval. In terms of next steps, you've seen this is called another cautionary announcement. What we have to do is take this restructuring support agreement, the RSA. It's a very detailed term sheet, and reduce it into definitive legal agreements. Once those 200-page legal agreements are done and dusted, we then release Ascendis. Ascendis then starts the 60-day clock. We have then 60 days to get you a detailed circular, which sets out all the important parameters of the definitive agreements, including the pro forma financials. It's very important to have those pro forma financials as you start to understand and calibrate what the value of the remaining group is. And obviously, you will hear from the management team what we think we can do with those at the time. The SENS -- one of the SENS, the document that goes out in the circular, we'll also have key dates. There will be an EGM. At that EGM, you will cast your vote. And the way it works that 75% of those present in voting need to vote in favor for the transaction to be approved. Ladies and gentlemen, there's a bit of a whistle-stop tour as to exactly what's in and what's out and why we believe this transaction is in the best interest of shareholders given the actionable alternatives. We've also received a lot of Q&A. My friends at AAI, some institutional investors, and I know during the call or during the investor call now there have been some questions that have come across. Let me hand over to CJ now. I've documented a whole list of additional questions that have come in, and we'll go through each of those sequentially.

Thank you, Mark. The questions that have come through on the web call so far related to understanding the estimated annual EBITDA for the remaining Ascendis assets. I'll reference everyone back to the half year results. We do provide the EBITDA information as of the half year. What you will find when you receive the circular is that we will provide detailed information on all the affected assets. So there will be a 3-year historical financial information as well as a pro forma view of the implications of the transaction.

And I think that's an important one because you need that to calibrate the value of the remaining business. You've got to put that in context of the remaining debt. Also just remember, in the medical devices business, there are some 6-month numbers, but they include RCA. So we very circumspect on how you interpret those until you get the granularity of what's left behind. These don't simply multiply by 2 to try to get to a number. You will need some guidance, and that will provide in the circular. So just some help warnings around getting to a tangible number to base your investment decisions on. Right. Some other questions are how did Ascendis get to this point? What I suppose if we go back, I was employed in October 2019 to come and do 3 things: one, turn the operations around; two, get some belief back into the businesses; and three, fix the balance sheet. So I think on one and two, we're largely there. The results of the 6 months ending December 2020, I think, indicated the operational turnaround. I think we allowed the businesses to trade and on entrepreneurial DNA is such that you need to allow them to trade. And I do think we've got the belief back in the businesses. The thing we hadn't solved for them was the balance sheet. And I think the ills or the unintended consequences of the ills on the balance sheet arose from significant acquisitions taken place in 2016 and 2017. You could argue that perhaps we paid too much for them. We've certainly structured them with too much debt. If you go back and look at the way the transactions were structured, and this is very broad, 1/3 equity, 1/3 bank debt and 1/3 debt from the people that we bought the business from. So 2/3 of this is in debt, net debt continues to roll. Now in a market that continues to rise with a rising tide that lifts all ships, when the music stops that debt doesn't. And I think the point we made early on around the PIK accrual every 6 months is the equivalent of the market cap is that report of mass destruction. This transaction sorts that out. Next one, have you really explored all options? So I can safely say that there has been no stone unturned in looking at alternative ways of refinancing this transaction. So unless you rock up with a check of around EUR 440 million, there is no actionable alternative other than business rescue or a consensual deal. My strong preference is always consensual because I think it gives us optionality on making the best of the remaining South African portfolio. But to give you some flavor for what we looked at, we looked at it take-private with a number of local and foreign private equity players. The issue you run-up against there is, if you go more than 51% of the shareholding, it triggers the mandatory repayment of the debt. So you have to have that EUR 400 million, every time you have to solve back for the total debt refinancing. We looked at a sort of a hybrid where we looked to gear up some of the operating companies within the group, take that debt as part repayment against the $400 million. Sales and other assets, take a bit more of the debt out. And then for the remaining stubs sold with the convertible bond. So incentives would remain listed, but again not sufficient capital, very complex transaction to get over the line and difficult to execute. We also looked at mergers within the group. So getting 2 businesses to reduce complexity, remember, across the group, there is inherent complexity either in business models or the reliance on third-parties. So looked at putting 2 businesses together that reduce that complexity, gearing those 2 businesses up together to repay lenders and keeping the equity stub, couldn't get that over the line. Rights issue. As you know, we've engaged you on that, not an alternative. Selling all the businesses with the fire sale sign above the door, another alternative, but that was put in at the end of January. So I think in terms of actionable alternatives, it's hard to see that there is another more credible path than the one we're on right now. What happens if the shareholders do not approve the transaction? Well, then you tip into that, I think, that second last slide, then we go into a business rescue, but one that has been considered by the company and the Board. So we will make sure that the company is in as good shape as possible to pivot into that scenario, if needs to be. But again, I want to stress, I do think that this is the best deal we have on the table. It preserves that optionality on the South African businesses. And we have the liquidity and the horsepower to go after the things that matter in each of those underlying businesses. What is your strategy for the new Ascendis Health? And what are the growth prospects? So this is where I start to get excited again. Because if I look at Consumer, Pharma and Devices, just taking each one of those. If you look at consumer, there's 5 businesses that sit in there. One is the Vitamins, Minerals and Supplements business, phenomenally strong performer in the immunity phase of COVID. We've got good brands, Vitaforce, Bettaway, Solal, Menacal, Chela-Fer. These are household names and brands that will stand the test of time. When you have brands, you have IP and you have the ability to meaningfully maintain market share. There's some optimization initiatives around SKU rationalization, getting more out of the factory. And I think importantly, our Skin business is one that doesn't require a lot of capital to go and internationalize. We have this great brand called Nimue, which is a SkinCeuticals. I think that's one that with relatively limited capital you can try to expand in other parts of the world. And then I think there's this whole digitization or e-commerce strategy that can be brought to bear to bring us closer to our customers and to allow us to more better understand who the customer is and plan our marketing accordingly. Pharma. Remember Pharma is in transition, so you're going to go back to those half year numbers, and you're going to say, my goodness, we got a minus in front of Pharma. Pharma is transitioned because we've exited the Dispensing Doctor business, and we've exited the Tender business. We've got some excellent brands there. You've got Sinucon, Sinuend, Reuterina, all confer significant market share in the categories they operate in. The strategic vectors there are to lock in pipeline. Every pharma company knows, it's all about what's coming, not what you've got because prices don't go up in generics. They only go down. And it's a function of focusing on those things that are niche generics as opposed to the Me Too space. And then on devices. Well, we left with a portfolio that is part COVID defensive and part non-COVID defensive. So in TSG, the scientific group, you've got an in vitro diagnostic business, which has a decent market share. We do most of the blood typing in South Africa, that's where your A, B or O. We do a lot of the PCR testing, which is still relevant in COVID. We sell stuff into the rest of Africa. So there's a nice rand hedge. And it is COVID defensive. The other 2, SI and Ortho, are very much elective or trauma focused. So to the extent that the vaccine rollout is more prolific, those businesses will naturally reflate and create sort of an earnings hedge in that underlying portfolio. There's also some great optimization initiative. And apologies, I'm hijacking this thing, but I do get excited about the remaining businesses. There's some warehouse management, tools to implement. There is an ERP system that we're looking to implement as well to take away the discretion around how we manage our working capital. And I do think there is a more meaningful way for us to engage with our license partners. Licenses, joint ventures, ways of better aligning interest around the future. And I think we can be that one-stop shop and not to South Africa, but the rest of the continent on stuff it saves lives and diagnoses problems early on. Next question. What valuation methodology was used in the fair and reasonable? Now that's not for me to comment on. That will be disclosed in the circular, not we have the definitive terms. One of the definitive terms, the RSA, which sets out the term sheet of what the agreed terms will be. The fair and reasonable practitioner will take that, do their work and then opine on whether the transaction is fair and reasonable. That will be included in the circular. So that will be full discovery at that time. Next question. Will you now move on to do other things? No. Job is only half done. Remember stabilize, optimize, monetize. I think the optimize, we're well on track, certainly with the European businesses. We tee those up nicely. I think there's some wood to chop here in South Africa. The stabilized piece is what we hear today to solve for this [indiscernible] reset on the weapon of mass destruction, which is this accruing PIK instrument. And then my job is going to make sure that we optimize and we introduce those efficiencies that I've just spoken about in the remaining businesses to create platform businesses that can either be exited, sold or can remain listed with a unique equity story. I think these are assets that will have large appeal here in South Africa. And I don't discount the opportunity that we will receive a number of inbound expressions of interest on those remaining assets once the restructure is done. So, no, lots of work to do. What CJ and I might do after those just get 5 hours of sleep. What will Blantyre/LetterOne do with the assets that they get? That's a question for Blantyre/LetterOne. What happens to your costs? And I think it's implicit that when your earnings base shrinks, you have to rightsize your costs accordingly. So we will make sure that as part alongside the optimization initiatives and growth initiatives in the underlying businesses, we will make sure that we set a cost base that's appropriate for the reality that we inherit. So is this not a definitive agreement? What is still pending? So this -- as I said earlier, this is a term sheet, a very detailed 40-page term sheet, but it is very granular in what it says you can and can't do. We now have to reduce that to definitive legal agreements. That then again triggers the announcement on SENS, which will then trigger the 60 days for the circular. So one additional sort of legal step, if you will, in converting the RSA to definitive legal agreements. How much is new Ascendis now worth? Now that's unfortunately not my job. That's the market decides on all of that. And this is where I think the pro forma information that CJ spoke about is going to be fundamental to your understanding. Pharma, I've given you the health warning. Consumer, half year results are what they are. But the medical devices, please wait until you see the granularity that sits for the TSG, SI and Ortho businesses. And equally, you'll need to see what the pro formas are for the head office costs because there is some optimization initiatives there as well that need to be brought to bear, as I said, given the reality we face. How expensive is this new PIK instrument? And how does it compare to the previous instruments? So the previous instruments ranged in cost between 14.5% and, I think, 17% there or thereabouts. These instruments are around 10%. And importantly, certainly, on half of the facilities, they are all PIK. You might think I got now this PIK again. But the difference here, the PIK allows you to manage your cash flow. So to the extent that you don't have to pay cash interest, you can deploy that into earnings in the group. The PIK will be discharged and can be discharged at any time. So there's no prepayment or make-whole premiums in either of the facilities. So to the extent that the business get earnings to a certain level, we may be able to refinance those, but they're there to provide this interim liquidity to get us to a point where we can fully reach the optimizing part of the strategy for the remaining businesses. I think that's about it. Let me just have a look here, CJ, anything else come in?

So Mark, I think you've answered some of the questions that have come through. There is a theme around head office costs. I think you've touched on that. But just to give everyone comfort, that work has started with regards to assessing our head office costs. We indicated that at half year already. And as we get to a point where we can provide guidance to the market, we will do so. There are questions around the EBITDA with regards to medical and RCA. We've indicated that, that granularity of detail will be included in the circular that will be circulated to all the shareholders. And I think the question -- there's a question here, just to clarify whether we'll retain Animal Health and refinance the business? I think just clarity around the SA disposal assets, a couple of questions related to that.

Okay. So those assets, Animal Health, I think is on Slide 2 or 3. I'll go back to it quickly. There we go. So this is what is not in remaining Ascendis, so the shares that we spoke about before. But the proceeds from Animal Health, Biosciences and RCA will go to pay down debt so effectively, the debt part is X, we will use that cash to reduce it to Y. And the remaining assets, the shares in Remedica, Sun Wave and Farmalider form the remaining part of the discharge. Now just remember, the net proceeds are just that. So it's gross proceeds less any tax, less any CapEx or working capital adjustments and adviser costs. So sum of those 3, again, just to be clear, will not remain in the group, but will be used to reduce the debt power.

There is a question around the new debt and whether we'll need any additional debt to unlock optimal value of the businesses and the remaining businesses in the short to medium term?

Yes. So what we've done is we ran that. I think we mentioned that at the half year, we ran those 3-year forecast, in some case, 4-year forecast for each of the underlying businesses with a view to understanding, one, what the day 1 capital needs are for each of those businesses. And so this -- or these 2 facilities have been sculpted based on that day 1 capital requirement or at least solving for the trough in working capital. Remember, you don't need a full amount of your debt for the full outstanding period of the year. September, October tend to be working capital-intensive periods for our business. So as long as you can get through the hump and you can pick that up in those 3-year forecasts, that's how you determine what the ultimate value of the debt needs to be plus some buffer. So based on that analysis, we believe that we can trade for the next 12 to 18 months, which is the period that you have to look forward to and actively go after the things that matter in each of those businesses.

And there's a question related to the Farmalider dossiers, and do you -- you will have access to those to optimize pharma?

That's a good question. The intention would be, yes, because I think if I think about how you maximize value in, let's say, the Pharma business, it's about pipeline. So most Pharma businesses that are in transition like ours, will talk to the pipeline. They will talk to launch readiness. They will talk to uniqueness of molecules. But I think it's fundamentally important for those niche generics that we currently have inside the group to structure those into an arrangement that allows us to permanently have that intellectual property in the South African group. We're not there yet, but it is certainly one of the things that's on my radar to conclude in getting that Farmalider transaction over the line.

Okay. There are a few questions around, I will bucket them as valuation questions with regards to the underlying businesses that are being exchanged. And I think the response there is that there will be more detail in the circular with regards to the transaction. And the fair and reasonableness will also provide additional color with regards to the valuations applying to the businesses.

Agreed.

There is a question around whether you've received any irrevocables yet on recapitalization?

No, I think that's premature question. I'm not sure if I can give you the right answer. But I think what will happen is once the circular goes out, then I think the shareholder engagement process does. I'd have to speak to our transfer secretary, not the company secretary, which is inside the company, but the transfer secretary. The transfer secretaries handle all the admin around getting the irrevocables in place or votes ahead of the EGM, to the extent we can obviously mobilize those ahead of time so much the better. But I think the period between now and the vote will be used to interact with shareholders again to make sure that we can present something that you can vote on with full suite of information, and that's why these pro formas and the circular is so fundamental to your understanding of the remaining investment case.

Okay. There's a question with regards to Remedica, and whether there were no viable possibilities in the restructure process to retain an interest in Remedica?

So this is the one where I mentioned earlier, we looked at a number of M&A alternatives. So either gearing up Remedica and using the proceeds from that gearing to pay down part of the debt didn't get us to a sufficient quantum to pay down the debt. We also looked at a merger scenario. We're putting 2 businesses together to reduce complexity, using that combined entities EBITDA to bring money back to the center. And then keeping a residual equity stub in a joint, less complex entity. But that too didn't solve for the requirement to get capital back to lenders. Remember the cannon we always face with the debt is that lenders want capital plus interest back. They're not particularly enthused about upside beyond that. And so the equity piece is always something they've seen for the shareholder, whereas the piece that you have to solve the debt needs to be sufficiently large. And in every alternative that we explore, the quantum of money that have to come back to the center to discharge that total debt obligation fell short at each turn.

Okay. Just a bit more granular understanding of Skin within Consumer? What gives you the confidence that this can be internationalized? These markets are very competitive.

Okay. Yes. So Skin, there's 2 parts to Skin. One is Solal and the other part is Nimue. Nimue is what we call a SkinCeuticals. So it's just below something that needed to script and certainly above anything you can buy over-the-counter. Now we have part internationalize that business already. We've got businesses I think in Portugal, in Sweden, Australia and other parts of the world. Much in the same way in our Medical Devices business, where we are the distributor for medical devices in other parts of the world, we choose distributors in other parts of the world to distribute our Nimue brand. That's why I think it's imminently scalable because it's past proof-of-concept, and we've demonstrated we can execute in foreign territories. It's never just as easy as find somebody and give them the product and off you go. You have to be very assiduous in your determination of who you partner with, I think pretty much anything in life. But I do believe that it is a capital-light way to internationalize something that is a very unique brand and currently only distributed through sales.

Okay. The next one I can answer, Mark, when can we expect the pro formas? And as Mark has indicated, once we've signed the definitive agreements, the clock starts ticking down under 60 days. That is required in terms of the regulations. Our -- what we are working towards is to make sure that we have the EGM well within that 60-day period. And we will provide a detailed time line when we make the announcement related to the definitive agreements. There is a question here, Mark, that relates to just clarity around which lenders are participating in this restructure? And whether it's only a one Blantyre? Because -- and the question is, I believe they only hold 75%. So what happens to the other 25%?

So that's Blantyre/LetterOne's job. They need to control. They control 75% of the syndicate that's left to them to solve.

Yes. There is -- and I think this will probably be one of our last questions that we will take, the divestment of RCA. Just wanting a bit more color on why we're divesting RCA?

So well, a couple of reasons. One, we've received this expression of interest. Two, we also looked at the state of the market. So there is an argument that says, courtesy of COVID, you sell 2 or 3 years' worth of ventilators and nasal high-flow devices into the market. So have you saturated the ventilation and high nasal flow device market in the country? I don't know. But you've certainly got 2 years' worth of stock sitting in the market. Secondly, you've got a mountain of debt to solve for that keeps accruing. So to the extent that if you believe if your thesis is right that you are narrow at the top of the cycle, to exit that business and reduce the impact of gearing and, obviously, on the remaining businesses, then we think that is a prudent decision to take as a management team. So a function of, are we at the top of the cycle, getting money back at a fair and reasonable valuation to reduce the debt path and give us more optionality on what's left. I think as a result of that, you get to keep arguably SI, TSG and Ortho-Xact, which are businesses that should reflate once you come out of COVID.

Mark, there are a number of questions around working capital. And I think what I'll just sum up with regards to working capital is now that we have more or less settled the group recapitalization and the balance sheet restructure, what it allows us to do is to focus on the remaining SA assets and optimize working capital and cash conversion within those businesses. Mark, there's a question around Remedica. And I think this is a question we've received quite a lot. Would we not have extinguished the debt if we had just sold Remedica?

Unlikely. In fact, yes, difficult to call. And if you remember what we said at the half year results, the bids came in, they were below satisfactory. And then coming at the end of January, the decision was taken away from us. There was no opportunity to go and look to sell that asset. Ascendis at the time having a check of around EUR 400 million to pay for the partners accrued interest. So it's almost a difficult one to answer because there's no benefit of hindsight here.

Yes. A point of clarification for everyone on the call. The forbearance period is extended until the proposed implementation date of this transaction. So the forbearance period has been extended up until that point. Mark, I believe we have addressed the key themes on the questions. I apologize if I have not specifically asked you questions in the format that you have put it in, but I have tried to make sure that we've covered all the themes. I think the last theme that has come through is there are actually people who have said well done for the work that you and the team have done.

You and the team. Well, thank you. Thank you. The job is not done yet. We've received lots of support from lots of people. This is difficult. This is the best outcome given the circumstances in the hand that you dealt. So I want to thank my staff who've put sleep and family on hold in the last while, and our customers and suppliers for walking this journey with us. I know for some of you, we are an incredibly large and relatively large customers. So our fortune is your fortune. Thank you for staying the course. You have mine and management teams committed that with the remaining assets. We are going to run really hard at seeking to optimize value for each of those. And just in terms of further engagement, I do have a number of engagement scheduled for later this afternoon. There's likely to be some press around all of this as well. And to the extent we haven't answered all of your questions, what we would like to do is obviously put up on a portal, on the website, to make sure that there's full disclosure and consistency of message. Please again only take what comes from either mine or CJ's mouth and or what's put out on the stock exchange news service. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much, and look forward to engaging with you all again soon.

Thank you.