Ashiana Housing Limited ($523716)

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Ashiana Housing Limited Q4 FY '26 Earnings Conference Call hosted by Valorem Advisors. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I will now hand the conference over to Ms. Hena Khatri from Valorem Advisors for opening remarks. Thank you, and over to you.

Good morning, everyone, and a very warm welcome to you all. My name is Hena Khatri from Valorem Advisors. We represent the Investor Relations of Ashiana Housing Limited. On behalf of the company, I would like to thank you all for participating in the company's earnings conference call for the fourth quarter and the financial year 2026. Before we begin, let me mention a short cautionary statement. Some of the statements made in today's earnings call may be forward-looking in nature. Such forward-looking statements are subject to risks and uncertainties, which could cause actual results to differ from those anticipated. Such statements are based on management's beliefs as well as assumptions made by and information currently available to management. Audiences are cautioned not to place any undue reliance on these forward-looking statements and making any investment decisions. The purpose of today's earnings call is purely to educate and bring awareness about the company's fundamental business and financial quarter under review. Now let me introduce you to the management participating with us in today's earnings call and hand it over to them for opening remarks. We have with us Mr. Varun Gupta, Whole-Time Director; and Mr. Vikash Dugar, Chief Financial Officer. Without any delay, I request Mr. Vikash Dugar to start with his opening remarks. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you. Good morning to everyone, and a warm welcome to all of you for joining our earnings conference call for the fourth quarter and the financial year 2026. The Indian real estate sector witnessed strong momentum during FY '26, supported by resilient residential demand, premiumization trends and increasing preference for branded and organized developers. Industry consolidation continued to benefit financially disciplined players with strong execution capabilities and established market positioning. The senior living segment also continued to gain traction, driven by changing demographics, rising urbanization and increasing preference for community-based living among senior citizens. With limited organized supply and rising awareness, the segment offers a strong long-term growth opportunity for developers focused on this category. FY '26 was a landmark year for the company, driven by strong demand momentum, healthy launches, robust execution and disciplined business development across key markets. I'll first take you through the operational highlights for the quarter and the full year, followed by financial performance. Starting with the operational performance for the quarter, the value of area booked stood at INR 1,290 crores, reflecting strong growth of over 225% sequentially and 124% year-on-year growth. The performance was primarily driven by successful launch of Ashiana Aaroham Phase 1 and Phase 2 in Gurugram, which contributed booking value of around INR 833 crores at launch. Average realization during the quarter improved significantly to INR 11,566 per square foot, up 71% year-on-year, largely driven by higher realizations from the Gurugram launch. Execution momentum also remains strong with equivalent area constructed at 6.65 lakh square foot, increasing around 60% year-on-year and remaining broadly in line with committed time lines. The company also maintained healthy cash flow generation with pretax operating cash flow of INR 167 crores during the quarter, up around 7% year-on-year. In terms of business development, the company further strengthened its senior living portfolio during the quarter through acquisition of 8.83 acres of land in Raigarh, Maharashtra with estimated sales potential of around INR 450 crores. Additionally, the company entered into an agreement for another land parcel in Panvel, Maharashtra with estimated sales potential of around INR 1,000 crores. Moving to full year operational performance. FY '26 was one of the strongest years in the company's history. The company achieved its highest ever booking value of INR 2,421 crores, reflecting growth of 25% year-on-year. The Senior Living segment also delivered record bookings of INR 570 crores during the year, registering growth of around 55% year-on-year and reflecting sustained demand momentum in the category. Execution remained robust throughout FY '26 with ESC increasing 30% year-on-year to 26.19 lakh square foot, in line with project commitments and execution schedules. Customer collections reached an all-time high of INR 1,762 crores during the year, supported by timely execution, successful launches and strong collection efficiency. The company also maintained strong launch momentum across Jaipur, Bhiwadi, Gurugram, Chennai, Pune, Jamshedpur, further strengthening its project pipeline and market presence. The company expanded its senior living portfolio through strategic land acquisitions in Chennai and Maharashtra, adding development potential of over 26 lakh square foot with estimated sales potential of around INR 3,200 crores. In addition, Ashiana Aaroham Gurugram received funding support from IFC through allotment of INR 100 crores of listed unsecured redeemable NCDs. During the year, the company also settled a long-term dispute relating to Project Maitri, Kolkata and received INR 18.5 crores as FNF against the security deposit and related expenses incurred. Coming to the financial performance. Total income for the quarter stood at INR 335 crores, registering growth of around 46% year-on-year, primarily driven by handovers across projects in Jaipur, Pune and Chennai. EBITDA for quarter stood at INR 35 crores, registering growth of around 19% year-on-year, while EBITDA margin was at 10.43%. PAT stood at INR 21 crores, remaining broadly stable on a year-on-year basis with margin around 6.26%. For the full year FY '26, total income increased to INR 1,187 crores, more than doubling compared to FY '25 in the wake of higher deliveries. EBITDA stood at INR 176 crores, registering growth of 281% year-on-year, while EBITDA margin at 14.85%. PAT for FY '26 stood at INR 118 crores compared to INR 18 crores in FY '25, while PAT margin improved to 9.93%. Further, pretax operating cash flow for FY '26 stood at INR 577 crores which also was highest ever, registering growth of 34% year-on-year, reflecting strong sales momentum and healthy collections. Overall, FY '26 was characterized by strong operational execution, robust demand across segments, disciplined expansion in the senior living business, healthy cash flow generation and significant improvement in profitability, positioning the company well for sustained long-term growth. With this, I would like to open the floor for Q&A session. Thank you

[Operator Instructions] We take the first question from the line of Sucrit D. Patil from Eyesight Fintrade Private Limited.

I have 2 questions. The first question to Mr. Gupta. What sort of strategic levers are you prioritizing in FY '26, '27 to expand Ashiana's residential housing footprint across Tier 2 and Tier 3 cities and to strengthen customer engagement in senior living projects and manage risk from regulatory changes and construction cost inflation? That's my first question. I'll ask my second question after this.

So I see sort of 3 questions in there. I will take the last part first with respect to construction cost and regulatory compliance. On the construction cost piece, inflationary increases will be impacting costs going forward. I don't think there is much to say with inflation increasing in wholesale prices. We hope that some of those might cool down if situations -- geopolitical situations improve. That said, I think the price points that we have been able to achieve in our projects leaves sufficient room that even if costs increase, our margins will actually continue to improve on the reported basis because we've been able to lock in good prices on those projects with relatively low land costs. I think -- so that has kept margins in check. The other thing on construction is if we -- the faster we execute, lesser inflation hurts us. So fortunately, last year was a good year where we improved execution by 30% year-on-year. And we have less to execute going forward in terms of deliveries in what is locked as compared to we would have if construction would have been poorer in the year. So I think that's one way to really hedge against inflation. And regulatory risk in this business is part of the business. The way to ensure that is we are disciplined, compliant, don't overstretch ourselves and keep our things and then -- and building that into the DNA as we move along, improving our processes for compliance, improving our systems for compliance that more and more of that becomes more formalized in the company, and we have been doing that. Second, on the senior living piece around what we intend to do, I think the senior living piece, we are intending to grow across markets. We have picked up 5 projects that we need to launch in the next 12 to 24 months, having a GDV of more than INR 6,500 crores. in those 5 projects across Chennai, Bangalore and the Bombay-Pune region that we have. We look for more projects in the NCR region. We are looking for more in Chennai and Bangalore as well and the Bombay-Pune region as we speak. What we plan to do is have senior living at multiple price points where we straddle a larger variety of price points catering to different economic category of customers with different projects. And on the Tier 2, 3 on premium homes, I don't think we intend to do more new cities of Tier 2, 3. We will continue to do work in the existing markets of Jaipur, Bhiwadi and Jamshedpur, whereby Bhiwadi to us is really an extended part of NCR. If you would consider Kalyan to be a part of Bombay from MMR market, Bhiwadi is effectively an NCR market. And in Jamshedpur and in Jaipur, we'll continue to keep looking for JVs and executing as we've been doing earlier. I hope -- sorry, go ahead, Sucrit, please.

Yes. No, you pretty much answered all the questions. My second question to Mr. Dugar is, what type of capital allocation and risk management framework have been applied in '26, '27 to balance working capital requirements with funding for new housing projects? Any hedge against interest rate and raw material volatility? And any buffers put into place to sustain liquidity for long-term cycle in real estate development?

Sucrit, Varun here again. Vikashji and I looked at it. We don't look at capital allocation from such a complicated perspective at all. I think there is -- Vikashji has put together a very robust capital allocation framework of -- in 2 things in one location level measurement of our returns to make sure that we are -- our capital is performing. And also we are allocating capital, we look to not land bank, launch our projects within -- as quickly as we can by going for -- making our design, going for approvals and launching. So we are not land banking. So that's not something. And the second bit is to make sure that construction is mostly financed from customer advances, so we don't have really interests to work with or liabilities to handle on that nature and also go through a project within a 5- to 6-year framework once it's launched. If we do that, I think we are more or less okay.

Yes. Just to add to what Varunji mentioned, I think we always chase profitable growth. So the ROE remains the single most and the strongest metric basis which we -- and of course, the GP margin, roughly 30% that we have talked about in the past remains the single most critical metric basis which we evaluate the project economics. So basis that only we look at allocating capital, and we have spoken about this. We are allocating more and more capital towards the senior living segment. We want to increase that segment of the business more and more. And coming back on working capital thing, I think we have got a strong momentum going as far as generation of operational cash flows are concerned. And so most of the working capital requirements are being met through our customer advances. And any need-based requirement, if at all it arises, then we go for construction funding. But we are pretty well placed as far as working capital management is concerned.

We take the next question from the line of Rohit from ithought PMS.

So one question, I think we've asked this many times, and I think I'll continue to ask this. So sir, if I look at your presentation on Page 26, so we have this land available, right, which is now -- like we've been selling around 2.5 million square feet every year. So land that is pretty much 25 million, 26 million square -- 25 lakh square feet, if I look at the -- so of course, I know that you have ongoing phases in existing projects as well. But just from the -- like continuing the growth perspective, and I think we had a few things which were under I mean there were CPs and all going on for the land that we were -- that we had initially signed up. So if you can maybe talk a bit about that because I think next 2, 3 years, the next phases will all get over. And given land buying is a very long-term kind of a thing. So how do we think about that?

So thank you, Rohit, for pointing that out. So 2 things along with that 26-odd lakh square foot that we have on Page 26, you're excluding Milakpur in that and rightly so. We have another 40 lakh square foot, which is of ongoing phases, which is 66. What is also not included in this deck is in April, we signed up another 2 million square foot in the Mumbai-Pune near our Ashiana Amodh project in Badgaon. So that adds another 20 lakh square foot. So that takes it to 86. And then there is another project of about 11 lakh square foot in Bangalore, which we have sort of done title diligence, done MOU and there were some CPs for the landlord to do. On that, there has been progress on the CP movement. The CP that needed to be resolved. The tricky issue of the CP has been resolved. There is only procedural matters left in it. I think maybe another couple of months for that to get resolved and then we will execute definitive documents. But in my head, I consider now that project very much 99% likely. So with that, I think we get to about 96 lakh square foot in total, which is about 4x of our annual throughput right now. We will -- 4x is just enough to sort of maintain the annual capacity. We will need to improve this by adding more this year. And we are targeting to add more lands this year. I think the senior living pieces is where we will continue to focus and add more opportunities. As I've already mentioned earlier, in senior living, we see land opportunities, we see places where we can find viability. We are in active discussions in multiple places, and hopefully, we'll add more and get that going.

Okay. So that's good to hear, sir. And I hope the Bangalore project sort of also gets you a new geography, which is -- will really help us in the coming years. So the other question was, sir, I mean, now next 2, 3 years? So just from the -- I mean, we will probably report very decent profits in the next 2, 3 years, given all the buildings will now be reported in the numbers. Any broad thought process in terms of like how much will you sort of look at from a land point of view? I mean, let's say, that is your CapEx. So like how much is that CapEx? And how much are you sort of going to keep? I mean, any other things, let's say, buyback or anything else? I mean...

Broadly...

Substantial amount.

It will be a substantial amount. So right now, the thought is deploy as much as we can in growing the business rather than returning back capital to shareholders either by form of buyback or dividends. That's the intent as of now. As I said, the senior living is a place where I think we'll deploy a bulk of this capital, and we will like to keep some otherwise also available for opportunistic things. As I said, let's say, in Gurgaon, I think we are quite confident that we'll be able to build a decent brand and a good brand with premium pricing when we deliver our projects. We have gotten to, let's say, where we are getting -- we are in the bottom of the top tier of brands in Gurgaon. We want to get into a higher tier there for the product we are in. And as we deliver our product, we think we'll be able to get pricing. When that starts to happen, I would like to have the opportunity of doing large transactions in these large markets. So we would like to keep cash on the books for that as well. So given sort of that thought, I think it's not something that we'll do large buybacks or large dividends. Dividends will remain on absolute terms will grow. I don't say they will not grow. But capital allocation will be focused on growing the business, if that's the way.

No, I absolutely endorse that, and I think that's the right way to do it. And sir, just one question...

I would request you to join back the queue for follow-up question. [Operator Instructions] We take the next question from the line of Ishita Lodha from Svan Investments.

My question is with respect to the recent announcement that we made on Mahindra World City that we decided to terminate the lease. So can you please explain why did we not go ahead with this?

So the Mahindra World was subject to some conditions precedent that Mahindra World City in Jaipur had to get done. They needed to get their -- what is the social infrastructure layout approved so that they could carve out the residential parcels that they wanted to sort of sell to other developers. Unfortunately, that's been -- it's been -- it took like, I think, over 18 months, we were -- with them, we were not able to get those approvals due to, I would say, exigencies outside of their control as well given the situation on approvals there. And since they were not able to get those approvals, we were not able to go ahead with the transaction. And we thought since there was not enough time lines also visible time lines on approvals, we thought it was better to sort of right now terminate the lease with an agreement sort of -- with a view that in case that happens in the future, we can always restart discussions with them given that we enjoy very good relationships already. We have done 2 transactions with them in Chennai prior to this.

Okay. So in the presentation on Page #26, there is one -- there is the title is land available for future development, which shows 22.7 acres of Aranya project MWC Chennai. So this is different from the one that has got canceled?

Yes. This is different from what just canceled. The one that got canceled was for Jaipur. So Mahindra has 2 of these world cities, one in Jaipur and one in Chennai. We have done one transaction already in Chennai, which is going on, which is a project called Ashiana Vatsalya. And Aranya is right next to Vatsalya, and that transaction is fully concluded. We are in the launch -- land to launch phase that we call within the company. That is going on.

We take the next question from the line of Synclair D'Souza from Lalkar Securities.

Am I audible?

Yes, Synclair.

Sir, as senior living projects grow across India and people get more familiar with senior living, so as competitors will also increase, right? So then how is Ashiana planning to differentiate itself from other competitors?

Sia, Vikash here. So I think -- so senior living, the way we look at it is more of a structural story, the way it is unfolding gradually which is getting more and more acceptability among the senior urban living population of the country. So I think that's where the opportunity lies that more and more players participate. I think the overall the size of the industry grows. rather than thinking it through a lens that more and more competition will arise. I think more and more serious players join in. I think the industry overall, the size will increase, it will gain and players like us or for that matter, any other serious player will also stand to gain. That's the way we look at it.

I would add further Synclair that we enjoy a very good brand equity so -- and have a track record of delivery. And I think people -- when they are buying off plan, their confidence on the brand and its capability to deliver not only the ready product, but also the capability to operate and maintain and manage the development later on. We have that. And right now, also the competition that is coming in -- we are not seeing outside of a couple of developers, we are not seeing very large-scale developments the kind we do with the amount of amenities, the quantum of -- and the quality of amenities that we are doing. And the size generally is not prevalent. More it is prevalent to do 2 acres, 3 acres, 4-acre developments, which by nature of land size, amenities get comparatively lesser than, let's say, a 12-, 15-acre project. I think that is also something I would just bring to light that the kind of projects we are doing right now, nobody else is doing because you have to commit a lot more capital and take a lot more risk, where we have sort of now figured out what to do. So we are more and more comfortable of doing larger projects there.

Got it. And one more question is, how do you all see this war affecting like people's buying houses currently?

So Synclair, very difficult to comment. I have no -- I think we have no capabilities to analyze impact of such geopolitical situations within and say what will happen in the future. We just look at what is happening today and anything else we see, which is more factual and structural. So what impact of the war, I don't know. What I can definitely say though, from a senior living perspective and one of the reasons why we are shifting more and more our business towards senior living, aging in India and increasing independent -- financially independent seniors in India is a fact in given, okay? That's just how demographic profile is. People are living longer. Health is better. fertility rates are lower. Financial savings have increased. So seniors who retire now will have wealth rather than financial dependence on the next generation. All of this is sort of clear and a fact today. And it's a fact today, and that's what we are relying on. We have no capabilities to say what the real current geopolitical situations or any future geopolitical situation, the impact that will have on our business. We'll end up quoting new sources and opinion makers. Otherwise, we read that you have access to as well. So nothing further.

We take the next question from the line of Saurabh Kumar from Scientific Investing.

Sir, I have 2 questions. First question is on senior living. And my understanding is new to the company. So correct me if I'm wrong. Right now, I think we build apartments and we sell it. But from a service perspective, also, it is going to be a very, very big market. So in long run, do we have any plans? I know we are doing some kind of services, but I don't think that is very significant. But over 5 to 10 years, do you see annuity-based services kind of model where the company will be participating? That is one. And second is, I think we have done very well in terms of how the balance sheet has scaled up. If I take a number, I think our inventory is 4x up in last 7 years without taking much risk on the balance sheet side, which is a commendable performance in the commoditized sector. So when we look 4, 5, 6 years down the line, how do you see this inventory again going up from current levels given the kind of plans we have? These are the 2 questions.

So honestly, on the second part, we never thought about how our balance sheet would be today, 5 years ago in this terms of how inventory would scale up. Overall, hopefully, we will continue to scale at a good pace because our overall construction momentum has sort of built up. and we should add to inventory. I believe that the senior living business will add to growth in the organization, and we believe senior living can be a really big play in the country. At the moment of time, we don't think the annuity-based leasing-based model is the way for us to go given the low sort of yields that are there in the country. And therefore, they're just not attractive to -- attractive from a return perspective. Indians much prefer to own their own properties. And also, I think given the lack of a proper leasing structure in the country, if you're older, you actually would want more permanence for your house. You are less willing to move. If I'm 70, I don't want to be shifting homes and moving. So the propensity to rent from that perspective becomes lesser because we don't have a long range leasing deposit kind of a structure and a model yet evolved, which is financially viable. So in the medium term, which is, let's say, up till a 5-year term, I don't see leasing to become a big business for us or a services-based business, which becomes a large driver of profitability. The profitability in the next 5 years will continue to come from home sales. How it will change after 5 years, I really do not know.

We take the next question from the line of [indiscernible] from [ Riva ] Private Wealth Managers.

Yes. Sir, regarding the path to a 20-plus reported ROE in FY '27, so which project handover, the primary drivers for this target? Like what is the biggest exUVs those specific sites today?

So I would say that in general, we like to make most of these numbers, right? If at 1 or 2 slips, it can be a large date. What I would say is -- probably Ashiana Malhar Phase 2 and Anmol Phase 3 have the least impact because they are lower-margin projects. Other projects are all decent margins. Now depending on their revenue contribution, you can decide which one is more important. That sheet is more in front of you. So let's say, Ashiana Amarah Phase 2 with INR 290 crores of revenue is a lot more important than, let's say, Ashiana Prakrati in Jamshedpur with INR 102 crores of expected revenues. But I think we are on track to get to more than 20% reported ROEs for the year. There is some room for slippage here as well, given if we maintain even the PAT margin that we have gotten this year, I think with a lower revenue, we'll hit 20% ROEs. -- year-on-year margin should improve actually this year. So there is a little bit of room there from a 20% ROE perspective.

Okay. Got it, sir. Next question. We recently acquired 38 acres in Chennai and Maharashtra, adding to an estimated of INR 3,200 crores of sales potential for the senior living portfolio. What are the margins on these new parcels? And what do you expect that per square foot structurally expand as this vertical scales up?

So let me put this way, including the one more project that we have done in Maharashtra and the Bangalore parcel, which put together have a GDV of INR 6,500 crores in senior living. I would say these projects at the project level before, let's say, general and administrative expenses of the corporate should operate at about 30%, 35% of margins. Now how the corporate fixed costs will behave as a percentage will depend on total top line. But that's what we would expect to do that. I think we can look at about gross profit margins of between 35% and 40% and you're looking at about 6% of selling cost and therefore, about 30% to 35% of margins at the project levels on average. Some of them would be higher, some of them would be lower, depending on our pricing power within those markets and our ability to position the product correctly.

I request you to please join back the queue for follow-up questions. We take the next question from the line of Anubhav Goyal from Cosma Ventures.

Sir, congrats on the recent large deal done for senior living. Sir, I just wanted your thoughts on various state government policies. I think there is this Maharashtra housing policy of 2025, which brought out attractive terms for senior living for developers and buyers. So just wanted your color if do they materially improve your economics? Are they -- are you now seeing more and more players enter this sector? And are other state governments also now following up on these lines?

Other governments have not followed on the lines of Maharashtra yet. People are coming up with different regulations for senior living. Some of them is also tightening the regulations around services, so people are more consumer-oriented, which is also a good thing because the more confidence that customers will have that developers will actually deliver, the more the business sector will do well. The policy of Maharashtra is also not yet notified in the sense the rules are not framed, the policy framework that need to be incorporated in the development control regulations have not been yet been incorporated. So the policy is right now, I would say, more of an intent and less of an operational policy that you can actually utilize. As and when it becomes operational, I think what it will do for us is it makes it easier for us to look for parcels, which are more suitable for senior living because we are looking for a little bit more scenic areas, more neighborhoods, which have a different charm, if that's the way to put it for seniors because they don't have to be in the city anymore. Those neighborhoods will become a little bit more easier to work with and more parcels might come up for development if this policy goes through. And the other thing about -- other thing that Maharashtra has also done within MahareRA, they have defined what all you need to fulfill to be able to market yourself as a senior living project, which is also a good thing because that regulation also creates a little bit of regulation, which will give more faith to the customer that the senior living will be actually what it is. So I would say, overall, the policy framework right now is encouraging for senior living. Yes, there are some places where overregulation, overambitious regulations are a concern in some states. But I think those will also get resolved as things move along.

Got it, sir. And sir, just a follow-up on the previous question someone asked of slow-moving projects. So you have mentioned we can expect 35%, 40% growth going ahead. And previously, you have said that FY '27 margins should be better than FY '26 and FY '28 should be materially better because all the low-margin projects -- and I think Malar is the only slow-moving project which can impact this. So sir, as of now.

Slow moving is the wrong word. Low margin is the better word, right? It could be moving faster.

Sir, apart from Malar, is there any other 1, 2 projects you see where this can marginally impact the improvement in margins?

So different projects have a different margin profile. So Anmol is the other one, which I said, which is the last phase is getting delivered in this year, where the margin profile is significantly lower than what we generally underwrite. Now there are some projects which will be at our general levels and some projects going forward, which are -- as we have had some projects which have been below our general level, there are now projects which are significantly above our general levels. So there will be volatility in the margins, I would say, on a quarterly basis for sure. But the margin profile for a full year basis in '27 will be better than '26. And the margin profile in FY '28 will be better than '27 overall. That's the general expectation...

We take the next question from the line of Ankit Shah from White Equity Investment Advisors.

My first question is, you mentioned that we acquired a land parcel in Mumbai, Pune belt, maybe Vadgaon in April. I missed that part. Can you substantiate that a bit?

Okay. So we have acquired about a 28.5-acre parcel on the old Mumbai-Pune Highway in a place called Vadgaon. It's very close to our current project, Ashiana Amodh. We'll do a senior living project here, about 20 lakh square foot, approximately, let's say, INR 1,800 crores to INR 2,000 crores of GDV. And yes.

Okay. Okay. That's helpful. Sir, if you can share guidance for presales for FY '27 and the launch pipeline, the phases and new projects?

So new projects, we are looking to launch Ashiana Oma, Ashiana Satvam and Ashiana Aranya. Ashiana Oma is a premium housing project in Jaipur where all approvals have been received. We should launch in the next couple of months. Ashiana Aranya and Ashiana Satvam are slated for launch in the Q4 of this year. And phase launches, it's hard to say, but basically, we have phases -- Phase 3 should get launched this year. And phases in all our senior living projects like Advik, Amodh, Vatsalya, Swarang, we should be launching at least one phase in each of the senior living projects is what I would expect this financial year. So it is -- we should have decent launches in the financial year. The presales target for this year is INR 2,200 crores that we are targeting. But I would say more importantly, I think we are really looking to grow senior living. Senior living is targeted to get cross even to cross INR 700 crores. I think senior living sales have been growing at a CAGR of more than 50% for the last 5 years. If that's the way to put it, we have gone from INR 100 crores to INR 570 crores in a 5-year period in senior living. I think the key metric that we are looking for presales is to really, really rev up senior living. The more it does well the more the long term is defined because to me, it's a structural story. It's a structural change in India's demographics, particularly in the western and the southern part of the country and some of it in the northern part of the country. I would say the eastern part of the country is still -- eastern and central part of the country remains -- still remains very young demographically. But these parts of the country are changing structurally, both in financial independence of seniors and overall percentage of seniors and urban seniors. That's the presales. I think we are really, really -- even though it's a smaller subset, I think that's taking a larger attention of the management team, if that's the way to put it because that's where the future lies for us...

Perfect. Sir, in this context, we were done the project with EPO in Diwali. Can you update on that, please?

Okay. So in -- with EPOC Elder Care, we have signed up our assisted living part of the business. So senior living has 2 pieces in the business. One is what we call independent living, active living or they are called active adult communities in the world. These are for folks who are seniors, but they're active, okay? They don't need assistance in day-to-day life. You are creating amenities for socializing, for wellness, for companionship for activities, for constructive purposeful living. And this is 99% of our senior living business, if I were to say, and which is basically where we make our profits. In our senior living projects, we throw in a tad bit of assisted living because our independent living customers might in the future, at some point of time, require assistance and care home care services and caregiving. And so we have built these at our projects. They're not necessarily a focus for our customers from a profit perspective. It's a sort of a value-added service that we're providing. So in one of our projects, instead of doing it ourselves, we have tied up with EpOeltercare, who specialized in doing this to see if we can outsource these activities to free up management bandwidth to focus on the active piece itself. So right now, that's -- so we are running 2 large care homes. One will be this in Briwari called Nirbai Care Homes gone to EPO and the other will be in Chennai in Ashiana Shubham. That care homes, we plan to manage ourselves and to see what the difference we have when we have outsourced one of the projects out to see and just -- and then take a call on future strategy of care homes.

We take the next question from the line of Shubham Sehgal from SIMPL.

So mentioned the launch part of Aranya and also...

I apologize to interrupt you Shubham, your audio is not coming in clear. Could you please use your handset?

Yes, is it better now?

This is better. Please go ahead.

Yes, sure. Okay. Yes. So could you just provide any rough time lines for the, so the Pune, Karjat one, the Bangalore one and the Pune Vadga one. And also, so if we see the delivery time lines, so currently for FY '29 and '30 and let's say, '31, we are roughly around INR 800 crores to INR 1,000 crores each. So will these new land bank projects be like getting delivered in those financial years? Or like are we planning on any other projects to be delivered then? So are these 2 questions.

Okay. So one -- so I'll tell you walk you through Ashiana Oma, Ashiana Tatvam and Ashiana Aranya are to be launched within this financial year. I clarified earlier as well, Oma within the next couple of months. And Tatvam in Q4 of this financial year is what we are targeting. The other 3 projects, which is Wabverle, Vadgaon and Bangalore, we are targeting to launch in FY '28. There will be buildup in FY '30 and FY '31 deliveries and values there. Most of it will be built through -- not through new launches of projects, but launches of existing phases. I would say all the phases that we have that we are looking to launch, which would be around, I think, 25-odd lakh square foot, we would probably look to wrap up by FY '31, whether it's Ashiana Vatsalya, Ashiana Advik, Swarang, Ashiana Aroham, all of those launches by FY '31, we would look to launch that up. So that will definitely add up there. Of these new project launches, I would say Ayana Uma definitely should get delivered within FY '30 or FY '31, partly not the full project, but the phase which we will launch in the next couple of months should definitely get delivered by FY '30, I would say. And the other projects of Aranya and Tatwam, I would -- FY '30 would be difficult, but I would expect some part of it to come in '31. And the other 3 projects which are going to get launched in the next financial year will probably go to 32. So some part of Aranya and Satwam should also come into FY '31. So there will be -- these 2 financial years will build up. You will see every quarter something or the other getting added to these 2 financial years is what I would say.

Okay. Got it. Just one last question. So currently, our realizations are on a higher end just because of our launch of Aroham. But going forward, how do we see our realization trajectory moving up, like blended one because senior living would be higher, but on a blended basis?

So on a blended basis, I think our realizations, if you look at what our full year realizations, the quarter realization is what ROM is really, really impacted because of the significant there. Right now, I think we are at INR 9,000 for the full year. Let me just open this up if I don't want to get my quoting. -- we are at 0 for the full year. Yes, INR 9,000 for the full year. I would say our realizations should be in this INR 9,000 to INR 11,000 kind of a range. I would say maybe hopefully should move to about INR 10,000 on a blended basis as senior living starts becoming a larger profile and -- and let's say, Jamshedpur and Jaipur, which are relatively lower priced markets also become a little lesser in quantum, though even Jamshedpur and Jaipur have now moved to INR 7,000 plus for us as markets. I think -- and in senior living also, Vikash is just pointing me out to add that we are premiumizing as well. So the Ashiana Aranya and Ashiana Tatwam are a lot more premium products than what we have historically done in senior living. So there is a premiumization story is playing out. So I would say INR 10,000 a square foot is definitely something we should look to get to.

We take the next question from the line of [indiscernible] Private Limited.

Just wanted to know the land area and price for Oma..

Say that again, please?

I just wanted to know the land area and price for Oma, the project.

Land area of Oma is around 11-odd acres, I would say, 10 acres. 10 acres is Ashiyana Oma. We are not launching the entire project. I think -- and roughly, the pricing should be -- we haven't, I think, closed the exact pricing. But in the INR 7,500 to, let's say, INR 8,500 range, it will land somewhere or INR 7,500 to INR 8,000 in land. Exact pricing is yet to be concluded fully, I think.

We take the next question from the line of Varun Bang, an individual investor.

This is Varun Bang from Bandhan Life Insurance actually. So just first question, with respect to our Panvel project, what is the upfront investment in the Panvel project? And what could be the realization assumption for Panvel and given that this is our first project in Panvel, do we have to rely on channel partners for sales or we can drive direct sales, how we are doing in other senior living projects?

Varun, we don't generally give out individual project investment details like this publicly, so I'll refrain to do that. I think -- and the pricing of Panvel also not been concluded yet. I think we'll launch in Q4. I think there the pricing will get more and more asserted closer to launch. we give some GDV ideas basis some pricing, but I don't want to get into the exact sort of pricing as of the moment. We will be doing it at the highest end of any senior living that we have done that we can tell you. And will we have channel partners? I think senior living, we do -- we have started using channel partners, but the reliance on channel partners is very limited. The senior living market is sold mostly directly because it's more of a specialized sale to a specialized customer. And we already have a lot of customers from Bombay. Ashiana Amodh in Pune, 50% of our customers there have been from Bombay recently. And even Utsa Lavasa has had significant Bombay customers historically. And so I would say majority or nearly all material sales should happen directly and channel partners should contribute some in the beginning -- some parts in the beginning.

Got it. And just to my first part with respect to our upfront investment, if that is not possible, if you can just broadly share if we are targeting 15% PAT margin, 15% to 18% PAT margin, can you share ballpark breakup of this 82% to 85%, the remaining portion, that would be helpful.

I wouldn't like to share that on a project-specific basis. That's the only thing, Varun. But let me put it this way. As I said, we were looking at about 35% to 40% at the gross profit level of the -- of projects in general, about 5-odd percent of sales and marketing. So you're looking at a project level margin of 30% to 35% you take out general and administrative costs after that, any financial cost we have and take out tax effectively to get to PAT margins. And I said general and administrative costs will vary depending on actually what the revenue would be in a particular year. On the direct cost side, which is, let's say, about -- excluding sales costs, about 60% to 65% of revenue, you would -- typically, we would look at about 5-odd percent of what I call project overheads, which are approval costs, architect costs, we have construction says environmental fee, OC fees, all of that put together, which is like soft cost of about 5%. Hard construction costs would vary between the 40% to 50% ranges and land cost will vary between the 10% to 20% range. So that's the breakup that you will have. So some projects might have a 10% land cost with a 45% construction cost. Some might have a 20% land cost with a 40% construction cost. It will vary a little bit depending on that, depending on the deal structure also. So outright purchases generally have a lower land cost component as a percentage of revenue and revenue share projects have a higher component of land cost because you're paying over a deferred basis. So that's the basic breakup. I hope that was helpful.

That was helpful. And with respect to the Varda project, back of the envelope calculation suggests we are assuming realization of around INR 9,000 for this project. If I say Malhar project, it is giving us roughly INR 7,000 a square feet. Amod is giving us probably another INR 7,000. So is this going to be slightly premium versus Amodh and Malhar and which is why INR 2,000 premium or I mean just to understand this better?

No. So if -- just one second, yes, if I can -- it's not -- there is no benchmarking to Malhar at all. There is benchmarking to Ashiana Amodh. My understanding of Amodh is it is about north of INR 8,000 a square foot in the newer phases. We are at INR 8,200, INR 8,300 a square foot, if I can look at data, just give me 1 second. Yes. So Amodh Phase 3, if you can do the -- I was doing the math on the deck only at Slide 12, it's at about INR 8,500 a square foot. So there is no real more premiumization right now planned. We are planning as if -- it is similar to Amodh in its thought process in that working. As we plan the project, will that -- can that change? Yes, it can change a little bit. And then our prices might go up if we premiumize the product even more. But right now, it's just expectation of Am plus inflation a little bit for the delay of launch from current price.

[Operator Instructions] We take the next question from the line of Rohit from ithought PMS.

Just a couple of questions. I think just on Pune, so like how are you -- like you mentioned earlier that you -- I mean, Gurgaon, you are going deeper and you're probably in the packing order at the bottom of premium brands, you want to increase it. So in terms of Pune, which like I think about 5, 6 years that we are now in Pune. So how are you seeing that? And do you want to go deeper into Pune? Or how -- I mean, just wanted to get a sense on that.

Rohit, we are going deeper in Pune in terms of senior living. And I would -- we look at Bombay and Pune sort of fused together because the projects are serving both Bombay customers. So half our customers are Bombay and half our customers are Pune -- is 40% in Bombay, 40% in Pune and Ashan Amur and 20% is from rest of the country or NRIs were booked. That is the place where we are going deeper. So we have done 3 transactions, right, between Panvel, Varga and Waverly in the last, let's say, 3 months and those projects put together have a INR 3,500 crore GDV basis. So that is us going deeper in that market. We are not looking to go deeper for premium housing yet. As we said, Malhar has been a low-margin project. And we still haven't figured how to get a decent margin project in premium housing in Pune. What happened in Gurgaon was even though Anmol was a low-margin project, we learned from Anmol that to make money in Gurgaon, this is what we need to do. And we understood that. In Pune, we still haven't been able to understand that yet. So -- but in senior living, we are doing well. We are profitable. Margins are good. Volumes are good. So we decided this is where we are doing well. Let's just go deeper in this product profile and do multiple price points here. It was that. So we are going deeper. I would say.

Got it. And similarly, in Chennai, like, of course, we've done 3 or 4 senior living now. So we are going to be again only in senior living there? Or do you think there is an opportunity for something which can do beyond senior living also?

There is an opportunity to do non-senior living. I wouldn't rule that out. Are we actively looking for it? Not very active. So if something comes within what we call our relationships where we have comfort, we would do a non-senior living project there. But again, in Chennai, the kind of senior living projects that we have taken, now Aranya to me will -- the way we have decided the product is probably a INR 1,800 crore kind of a GDV product -- GDV project. And if we can do that, itself that adds a different kind of depth to the Chennai market for us with -- and selling Aranya and Vatsalya together next door to each other with differentiated and more premiumized product in one versus the other. That's the strategy we are going to go deeper in Chennai.

We take the next question from the line of [indiscernible] from [ Riva ] Private Wealth Managers.

As we allocate capital towards premium and senior living land banks, what are the primary macroeconomic or operational scenario stress test against to protect the balance sheet over the next 3 or 5 might be 5 years?

Macroeconomic scenario, sir, I don't know what the macroeconomic scenario would be. As I said, from a senior living piece, we see a structural shift in the demographics of the country in the western and southern parts of the country and other parts of the country -- to me, that's the macroeconomic protection towards senior living and going there. And the other bit is we are low debt, high cash. So that keeps us -- so even if shocks come along, we can absorb those shocks.

Like any major wrong things that can happen to the senior portfolio? What are the scenarios that can -- I can think of like you can think of on an immediate basis that these are the wrong thing can be happened.

One excess competition could come in. But right now, our belief is competition should actually grow the market. Second, we might take up more than we can chew. So senior living will grow, but may not grow at the pace that we expect it to grow. Third, we may not be able to handle it managerially in the number of projects that we want to handle, if that's the way to put it. And fourth, maybe our choice of markets could go wrong. These are -- they are very different markets, like our senior living in Jaipur didn't do so well. but our senior living in Chennai did extremely well when we launched. So maybe our choices might go off. I don't know. I can list out 20 different things that could go wrong. We would be -- I would -- like I'm constantly worried about what all can go wrong. Approvals can get delayed, construction costs can go up. I don't know. There's numerous things which could go wrong.

Okay. The next -- another final question would be like FY '30 guidance of INR 2,000 crores cumulative PAT, what is the -- what are the biggest bottlenecks to achieving it?

Achieving delivery time lines right now. I think the supply of materials, our scaling up of execution, some labor shortages that people are talking about, meeting the delivery time lines will be our biggest, biggest sort of thing. And -- and launching A Phase 3 this year, launching Oma. -- and as I said, Tatwam and Aranya, if we launch within this year, there are parts of it which can come on track, which will -- those were the sort of to be bottlenecks. As of now, we are on track to achieve that number. Overall, we seem to be on track.

We take the next question from the line of Varun Bang from Bandhan Life Insurance.

Yes. Just 2 follow-ups. Firstly, on the cost of construction, which you said is probably rising. Broadly, can you share the sort of rise that we are seeing in cost of construction, both on Q-o-Q or Y-o-Y basis? And second part to this question in terms of when we underwrite the project, how much do we typically built in for cost of -- increase the inflation part? Can you share...

Okay. So when we underwrite a project, we don't -- when we pick up a land, we don't underwrite any inflation either in the sale price or in the construction cost. substantially, it's more -- if it is, it's like 4%, 5% here or there, like till launch inflation. Post launch, we just don't know how prices will behave, how construction costs will behave. So if anything, we'll then just underwrite CPI for both the construction cost and for the sale price, if that's the way to put it. I think the assumption is that cost of construction and sales both will go up on a consumer price index level. At this year, probably CPI will be more than what has been historically in CPI. I think we are expecting about 8% to 10% increase in construction costs in this financial year on a year-on-year basis. as of now. Given the information we have, if things change in the next couple of months, anything more or less can happen. But as of now, the information is.

And just one request. I had shared an e-mail with Vikashi regarding a compliance requirements wherein we needed some data for our internal filing. It would be helpful if you can share that information.

Okay. We'll have a look at the mail and then come back.

Okay. Varun, in case you don't get a reply, can you resend the e-mail again tomorrow, please -- it seems like it might have slipped in our inbox for some reason.

We take the next question from the line of Rahul Jain, an individual investor.

Yes. So my question was, so if I look at the presentation, I see the value of like units delivered in FY '26 is about INR 988 crores, but the revenue that we have recognized is around INR 1,140 crores. So like I wanted to understand like from where is this extra INR 150 crores of revenue coming from?

You're looking at the consolidated accounts, if I'm correct, Rahul. So in the consolidated accounts, when we consolidate the maintenance services business, which is an annuity business, so the revenues come in.

The other reason why the revenue would be a little different is that we already would have some inventory left in already delivered projects. So some of that inventory also gets sold. So that top-up also comes in. So those 2 have to be added to the numbers that we are showing in the presentation, and that's how the revenue overall has stacked up.

Okay. So when you say like handover done, does that mean that all the units of that project has been accounted in revenue or something is still left, which may get recognized in the next quarter?

So when we say that the project is scheduled for handover, that means when we are going to complete the project, issue IOPs and recognize the revenue to the extent we manage to sell the units. And the units which are unsold, they remain in our stock and gradually get sold. But as and when that delivery starts or we start the handover, that's when we broadly mentioned that this is the year in which the deliveries will happen.

So just to clarify further on that, it only is for the sold units and not for the unsold units clearly. And in sold units, if anything is slipping to the next quarter, then we right started handing over instead of handed over. So when the word handed over is there, everything has been recorded, which is sold. Only the unsold portion when it gets sold will be recorded for revenues specifically. If it says started handing over, then it means that some of it is coming into the next quarter as well.

We take the next question from the line of Arpit Ranka, an individual investor.

So it's great to see the increased commitment towards senior living, all the best for the same. I had just one quick question on the class action suit that was filed last year in October. Given the customer centricity with which we work, it was a little surprising actually. And if not mistaken, this was a project which was delivered almost 5, 6 years and above before the case was filed. So what led to that? Was there no possibility that both the parties could have managed to settle it without going the litigation route? And second, what is the latest on that? And just in general, your sense, if it was filed in October, how much time does a case like this typically take? Because it would be good to know like how it kind of concludes that.

So there are 2 aspects to the case. One, it's been -- there is a consumer complaint been filed, okay? And in the consumer complaint, they have made the consumer complaint a class action by taking it from just the consumers who have filed a complaint to everybody in that project. whether there is a class action applicable on the suit or not, we have gone to the high court in Delhi to say that there is no class action applicability on this matter. Our lawyers have opined that we should get something favorable from the High Court, and therefore, we have gone and litigated in the high court. High Court is still going through dates because we have to service a lot of customers, notices and everything. So there is some process going on. I hope that this High Court decision should come in sooner than later, maybe, let's say, within this financial year, we should have something would be my expectations. In the consumer forum matter, even if high court rules, the consumer complaint will go on, at least to the extent of the customers who have actually filed consumer complaints. I'm -- we would have preferred if we can settle the matter out of court, we would love to settle with our customers. The last thing as an organization, we want to do is litigate with our customers. Somehow, though on the post handing over period during maintenance, there has been some increased litigation from some consumers, particularly here. Even though when we check back with our consumer, satisfaction when we check on NPS scores, we take feedback even in this project, our overall levels of customer satisfaction seem very high. And the other things, rents in the project are up, prices in the project are up. General levels when we visit the project, the upkeep and the maintenance with our eyes, we are satisfied with. But unfortunately, this litigation has happened of this extent. How long can the consumer forum matter take? -- completely don't know. It's very hard to comment on the judicial system in India. It can go for years, sometimes earlier. we really don't know. I've had a matter where the -- in a consumer forum where the matter got argued and it got reserved for judgment, all the judge had to do is write the order and pass it on. That took 7 years from the date of reservation of order to date of actually pronouncing the order, okay? So when you see something like this, you just don't know when it will get done. And then you have seen things which have gotten addressed in 6 months, 8 months as well completely fully. So I really don't know how long it will take. But my suspicion is that it will be longer than shorter given the number of parties involved.

Sure. No, just that, I mean, for somebody who's tracking the company for 15-plus years, right, it just doesn't add up. I mean it's one of those things which if you didn't see it coming from the company, you will wonder, right, like given the customer centricity with which we work, right? -- everything. So...

Unfortunately, you say -- if you go into that project and you spend time with the customers, you will say in that project also, this does not add up. As a company, you might be customer centric and you might say, okay, this scales up and they will mess up somewhere and they have really messed up here, and this -- that's why it should add up here from a customer dissatisfaction perspective, right? The litigation doesn't add up to me that the customers are litigating with us and we are not able to resolve this on an out-of-court basis. Even if you go to the project, it doesn't add up for somebody. So it is what it is at the end of the day.

We take the last question from the line of Rahul Jain, an individual investor.

Yes. My second question was on that, are we seeing any pricing pressures or like higher supply -- oversupply in any of the markets that we are operating in?

There is no oversupply yet. signs of some oversupply in Gurgaon and Pune are visible, whereby 2 quarters -- in last 2 quarters in Gurgaon saw very heavy launches. So absolute inventories -- absolute unsold inventories increased substantially for 2 quarters in a row. If that trend continues for another, let's say, 4 quarters, we'll definitely be oversupplied. So we will see how the next couple of quarters go where to that is. Pune also has some signs of oversupply. And so that's what I would say. Bhiwadi, Jamshedpur and Jaipur, I don't see any oversupply yet.

As there are no further questions from the participants, I now hand the conference over to the management for their closing comments.

Thank you all for participating in this earnings conference call. In FY '26, we are encouraged by the strength of our sales momentum, launch pipeline and operational cash flows. We remain focused on timely handovers in FY '27 and on building long-term value through disciplined execution and customer-centric development. If you have any further questions or would like to know more about the company, please feel free to reach out to us directly or you can alternatively reach out to our Investor Relations managers at Valorem Advisors. The investor presentation and relevant materials are available on our website, and we'll be happy to provide any further clarifications you may need. Wishing you all good health and a productive year ahead. Thank you.

Thank you, sir. On behalf of Ashiana Housing Limited, that concludes this conference call. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.