Ashoka Buildcon Limited (ASHOKA) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day. And welcome to the Ashoka Buildcon Q3 FY '20 Earnings Conference Call, hosted by Centrum Broking Limited. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Ashish Shah from Centrum Broking. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Yes. Thanks, Ramon. Very good afternoon to everyone. We are here to host the Q3 FY '20 Earnings Conference Call of Ashoka Buildcon. We have from the management, Mr. Satish Parakh, Managing Director; Mr. Paresh Mehta, Chief Financial Officer. And we also have Stellar IR on the call. So over to you, Mr. Parakh, for opening remarks, and then probably we can go for the question-and-answer session. Thank you.

Yes. Thank you, Ashish. Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome you all to the earnings conference call for quarter ended December 31, 2019. Joining me on the call is Mr. Paresh Mehta, our Chief Financial Officer. To start with, I would like to share what we have made an important progress in Tumkur-Shivamogga Package IV and Kandi-Ramsanpalle HAM projects. We have successfully signed a concession agreement with NHAI for both the projects. Currently, we are in process of tying up with debt for the said projects and expect to do the financial closure in near future. Now coming to the order intake during the quarter. Ashoka Concessions Limited, a subsidiary of Ashoka Buildcon, won the road HAM project worth INR 1,000 crores from NHAI in Telangana under the Bharatmala Pariyojna. The project entails 4 laning of NH-161 from Kandi to Ramsanpalle on HAM mode. Also, we have received LOA for a road project worth INR 1,080 crores from Uttar Pradesh Expressways Industrial Development Authority. The company's total order book as on 31st December 2019 stands at INR 8,092 crores. The order book excludes orders worth INR 1,454 crores, which includes LOA OF worth INR 868 crores and INR 586 crores received from Tumkur-Shivamogga HAM project and Kandi-Ramsanpalle. Including these 2 orders, our order book stands today at INR 9,547 crores. The breakup of the order book is as follows: the road project compromise (sic) [ comprise ] of INR 5,981 crores, which is 74% of our total order book. Among the roads order book, HAM project -- road projects are to the tune of INR 3,411 crores, and EPC projects are to the tune of INR 2,570 crores. Power T&D and other comprises of around INR 1,046 crore, which is 13% of total balance order book. Railways contribute INR 993 crores, which is 12% of the total order book. And EPC work on CGD comprises of INR 73 crores. Over the years, road infrastructure has been a key government priority. In Union Budget 2021, our Honorable Finance Minister seems to provide impetus to further enable the development of infrastructure in years to come. On 31st December 2019, the government has launched the National Infrastructure Pipeline of INR 103 lakh crores over the next 5 years. The Central Government has provided INR 22,000 crores in the form of equity infusion in NIIF and IIFCL. This support will enable the financial institutions to leverage and provide financial support over INR 1 lakh crores of various incoming projects. The government has announced accelerated development on the highways, which include development of 2,500 kilometer of access control highways, 9,000 kilometers of economic corridors, 2,000 kilometers of coastal and land projects, 2,000 kilometers of strategic highways. To fund the project, government has allocated INR 1.7 lakh crore in FY 2021. Also, the government plans to monetize at least 12 highway bundles of 6,000 kilometers before 2024. Additionally, to drive investment in priority sectors from sovereign wealth funds of foreign government the Finance Ministry has proposed a grant of 100% tax exemption on interest, dividend and capital gains. We believe this will help in faster asset monetization and support funding for future awards. In current financial year, we have witnessed a slowdown in tendering and awarding of projects by NHAI. In coming months, we expect a strong order intake as the project awarding activities by NHAI had already picked up. The government impetus on road construction improved scenario in terms of land acquisition and availability of funds will help the sector. Moving on to other key developments of the company. I'm happy to share that we have acquired remaining 29% of equity in Ashoka GVR Mudhol Nipani Roads Limited, held by GVR Infra Projects Limited. With this, Ashoka Buildcon now holds 99.99% equity share in this SPV. The consideration of INR 35.69 crores for the transaction was already paid in cash in the past. That is all from my side. I would now request Mr. Paresh Mehta to present the financial performance of Q3 FY '20.

Thank you, sir. Good afternoon, everyone. The result presentation and press release for the quarter has been uploaded on the stock exchanges and on the company's website. I believe you all may have gone through the same. Now I will present the financial results for the quarter ended December 31, 2019. Starting with the consolidated results. The total income for Q3 FY '20 stands at INR 1,303 crores as compared to INR 1,382 crores in Q3 FY '19. EBITDA stood at INR 401 crores in Q3 FY '20, a growth of 4% year-on-year. Coming to the stand-alone numbers, the total income of Q3 FY '20 stands at INR 1,021 crores as compared to INR 1,091 crores in corresponding quarter last fiscal. During Q3 FY '20, BOT division recorded a toll collection of INR 238 crores. EBITDA for the quarter was at INR 161 crores as compared to INR 170 crores in the corresponding quarter last year. EBITDA margins has been at 16% for Q3 FY '20. The company reported PAT of INR 86 crores in Q3 FY '20. PAT margins stood at 8.5%. Total consolidated debt as on December 31, 2019, is at INR 5,881 crores, of which project debt is INR 5,366 crores, including INR 150 crores of NCDs at ACL level. The stand-alone debt is at INR 515 crores, which comprises of INR 216 crores on equipment loans, INR 149 crores on working capital loans and INR 150 crore of NCDs. With this, we now open the floor for Q&A. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Mohit Kumar from IDFC Securities.

Sir, firstly, on the revenue. Sir, the dividend was slightly on the lower side for Q3. Are we still maintaining 25% to 30% growth in revenue for FY '20? And is there some kind of guidance that you'll give for FY '21 now?

EBITDA -- I mean going with the revenue side, we did guide when we started off the year with 25% growth. But in view of the delayed appointed date for a couple of projects and for the 2 projects, TS-1 and TS-2, and also the Bettadahalli project and -- it elongated drains during this last 2 -- Q2 and Q3, our estimates for the year-end stands revised to almost around 15-odd percent, and we will achieve that too. But all the revenues then will get postponed for the Q1 of the 2021.

Okay, sir. Something on the asset monetization side? So what's happening there? Is there some progress which you can share? What is time line we're looking at?

Pardon, didn't get you, sir?

So on the asset monetization side, is there something which you can share at this point of time, the time line, which you're looking at now?

So as updated in our previous calls, Macquarie is in the lookout for exit from the portfolio. And in pursuance of that, we are already -- they're already in certain process of diligence where we are facilitating. We do have an option of giving them an exit or monetizing all the assets put together. The kind of investors which are available are looking out for assets, 100% stakes in SPV. So we believe that by March-end, we should get the clarity on the exit of Macquarie or stake sale.

And lastly, on the -- sir, on the project, Kandi-Ramsanpalle and the Lucknow and Shivamogga, when do you expect all the projects to start construction? Is there something which you can share?

Kandi-Ramsanpalle is quite in advanced stage, where 95% of the land is available. So that will get started in time, like 4 months from now. And Package 4 Tumkur-Shivamogga may get -- may need another 6 months to start.

So what about Lucknow? Is that this expressway?

Lucknow project has already started, and we have begun work on the project already.

The next question is from the line of Koundinya N. from JM Financial.

Sir, sorry for hopping on, sir, revenue sort of on a stand-alone level again, because if we look at the monsoon data also, maybe, October could have been partly impacted by monsoons. But otherwise, also our order book is decent enough to, maybe, achieve the growth. But still in 9 months, we achieved only 7% growth. So just trying to understand if there is any liquidity issue either for us or for subcontractors? Or if there is any other issues which are hampering the execution?

Monsoon, in fact, affected us up to, right -- up to the first week of December. The major 2 projects were like Vadodara-Mumbai Expressway and Karnataka projects, where we really had a very long monsoons. And Vadodara-Mumbai Expressway, we really know the entire work in the Narmada bridge, temporary bridge was completely washed away. So we have to completely redo the Narmada bridge, for which definitely we'll get insurance, but we are not going to get the time we have lost and that really affected the entire quarter.

I can assure you that the cash flow is definitely not an issue. We -- if you see our stand-alone debt, working capital plus NCDs are to the tune of almost INR 300 crores, where we have a headroom of another INR 200 crores to borrow. So that's not a concern. And to just put a limelight up, on the first 2 weeks of January, we received almost INR 400 crores. So this debt is -- I mean this debt is totally under control. And there is a lot of comfort on the working capital debt.

Stand-alone level, we are really comfortable. I mean my question is that, if disbursements to HAM projects are happening and then secondly, because we -- also subcontract part of our work, this cash flows to subcontractors are on time? Or is there some stress to that extent?

So we have no concerns on either the grant being received from the authority because based on the pace of the work, we have been receiving our grants in time, maybe 8, 10 days plus/minus. The debt also is being reached by the existing bankers in time. So there is no challenge in that, so they are going ahead with their -- sale down of their debt. But they are revising till now -- till the sale down happens. So there is no concern on cash flows at all.

Sure, sir. Sir, my second question is on Tumkur 4 HAM. If you can help -- Tumkur 4 HAM, can you help us understand that land acquisition status, 3H?

So that is around 46% as of now.

46% 3H, sir?

3G has been done up to 60%. So this will expedite in the coming months. So once 80% is done, we'll get the appointed date.

And sir, Ramsanpalle is 95% is 3H, right?

3H is already there. We are tying up to our debt. So our debt tie-up will happen within a time limit given by NHAI. So that we'll -- we hope to start in time.

Sir, lastly, one bookkeeping question. Can you provide the net -- outstanding net debt number on the BOT assets, which are part of this Macquarie stake sale thing?

So that net debt on the ACL deal is around INR 4,821 crores -- ACL assets.

The next question is from the line of Vibhor Singhal from PhillipCapital.

Sir, few questions from my side. As of now, that you mentioned that we're looking for a 15% kind of growth in fourth quarter, that would mean that in the -- sorry, for the full year, that would mean that for the fourth quarter, we would need to do something like a 30% kind of growth Y-on-Y, around INR 1,700 crores of revenue. Do you see the enough visibility? And also, as we might have seen in the first 40 days of the quarter, do you see enough visibility for us to be able to do that kind of a revenue in this quarter?

I think we have started well on Bundelkhand Expressway, plus we are now completely in shape and work is in full swing. And Tumkur-Shivamoga also work has started in full swing. So we definitely feel that we'll be able to catch up.

Sure, sir. That's heartening to hear. Also, sir, any chance that you could share the debtor and the inventory days number with us for the -- at the end of this quarter?

Yes, one second.

Sure, sir.

So the total trade receivables are in the range of INR 1,500 crores. This is including receivables from our SPV. And as of January, we received almost INR 400 crores on that account. And the inventory, unbilled revenue are to the tune of -- I'll just come back to that.

Sure, sir. Along with that, sir, if you can get the net working capital number also? That will be great. So in the meantime, if you would -- I would just maybe ask on a strategy level in terms of asset monetization. So the ACL, we have around 7 projects, in which SBI Macquarie has invested directly. So as of now, are we looking just for the -- so SBI Macquarie is looking for a partner for the exit. So are they looking just for the partner -- somebody to buy out their stake in these 7 projects? Or are we also at the same time contemplating the other annuity and the HAM projects that we have in our portfolio?

So from a diligence and from a process which we are progressing, we are looking -- we are also looking for 100% monetization of all the 7 assets, which they partnered when they came in. And additional HAM projects, which were taken up during the course of the partnership, there also we're looking out for a financial arrangement where somebody can buy out the equity, as the project is completed.

So that would mean that all the 7 HAM, also?

Yes, that would.

Sure, sir. Right, sir. I just need the inventory days and working capital days. I'll come back in the queue. Whenever you have, I'll be okay to take those numbers, sir.

The next question is from the line of Prem Khurana from Anand Rathi.

Am I audible?

Yes, sir.

So first one was -- I mean if you could help me with the breakup in terms of -- I mean how much did we have from roads in terms of revenues and how much was from Power T&D this quarter?

Yes, on the roads, for this quarter, we had INR 742 crores; on the EPC power, INR 95 crores; on the Railways, INR 74 crores; other projects, around INR 32 crores.

And sir, just to continue on this revenue recognition. Sir, essentially, we've had good numbers from roads. And I'm assuming a part of it would be from your hybrid annuities as well. But when I look at my project-level debt, it seems to have come up. So does it mean, I mean, we could have mobilization advances in grant from government to be able to fund our execution because -- I mean when I look at the presentation, sequentially, your project debt is down by almost around INR 60-odd crores despite this kind of execution in this quarter. How do we explain this?

So this is -- you're right. There are 2 parts. One is the repayment of debt on the old project, which has also happened during the quarter, one. And second, definitely, disbursement of grants and mobilization advance has helped in funding all this progress of work.

Sure. Would you have that number available with you? I mean how much was the mobilization in grant in this quarter that you would have received?

I'll just come back on that.

Sure. And just one last time, and if I may. So what's the status on Kharar-Ludhiana COD and as well as -- I mean when do we expect the same for your Ranastalam project?

COD is very much in advance stage. You can expect by the end of this quarter.

Okay. Sir, the schedule COD was September, right? So it is already delayed by a quarter or 2, right?

Actually, work has been completed. Now the process takes time in NHAI than what we account.

Sure. But then will they compensate you for the -- this delay, essentially in terms of the interest that you were supposed to get or the annuity that...

Because we'll not be supporting this. First annuity will be anywhere due and paid in time.

Yes. And Kharar-Ludhiana, the entire 100% land was available? Or there was -- there is still some missing land there? Because when I look at the order backlog, there is some more work that needs to be finished.

Yes, yes, yes. There is work balance, which will be done in maintenance period as and when land is released.

Sure. Sure, sir. If I may have that grant in mobilization advances number, sir.

Sure.

We move to the next question. Next question is from [ Avinash Chenna ] from Spark Capital.

Sir, can we know exactly what is the cash available as on December '19? And I understand gross debt is around INR 5,881 crores.

On the stand-alone numbers?

Yes. On the stand-alone?

Around INR 50 crores. Cash available on balance sheet as on 31st December is around INR 50 crores.

Okay. Sir, and next question is on your bidding. What's the current bidding status on pending awards or pending results?

See, we are actively participating in various EPC as well as HAM projects. We have number of bids where results are yet to be out, like high HAM projects which we have bidded in, we are awaiting for the numbers.

Okay. Sir, of this INR 80,000 crores to INR 1 lakh crores of pipeline that NHAI is ready with, so how are we targeting? Are we specific about any geographies or -- in HAM and EPC?

We have selected projects worth INR 30,000 crores for bidding in the next 2 months. It's compromising (sic) [ comprising ] HAM as well as EPC.

We move to the next question. The next question is from Jiten Rushi from BOB Capital.

Sir, firstly, on the equity invested so far in the HAM projects and balance to be invested in next couple of years, can you please give us a breakup?

So in the existing HAM projects, up-to-date equity invest is around INR 490 crores.

Okay. This is 7 HAM, right, sir?

This is 7 HAM, yes. And then if we move ahead, we intend to invest approximately INR 75 crores -- INR 76 crores in '19, '20, that is the remaining 2 months.

INR 76 crores, okay.

And then around 2021, we expect to invest INR 240 crores. This is including the 2 new projects, that is Bettadahalli and Kandi project. And the balance of around, say, INR 130 crores will be invested in '21, '22. So this is the schedule of the existing HAM projects which we have.

So what is the equity you have to put in these 2 HAM, put together, the new HAM, the Tumkur-Shivamogga?

So HAM would be, in Bettadahalli approximately INR 129 crores; and in Kandi approximately INR 76 crores.

Okay. So Tumkur-Shivamogga INR 129 crores and is Kandi is INR 76 crores, right? Okay. And sir, can you throw us the light on the land status for the other HAM projects? As you said, that for Kharar-Ludhiana only 80%, 85% land is available. That was the case last time. I think that is the case now also. And what about the other HAM projects, the land status?

Look, Kharar-Ludhiana, around 91% is available, which we are completing. We're getting COD on that. And other projects, as I explained earlier, Kandi, the new project is 95% kind of available. And package 4, Tumkur-Shivamogga, that is Bettadahalli, there today only 60% is 3G done and 46% of 3H done, so that we expect to pick up in the coming quarters.

Right. And sir, the revenue which you have lost in Vadodara-Kim, so I see some INR 100 crores plus revenue execution in Q3. So what kind of run rate you can expect in Q4 and in FY '21, because you said you lost some revenue because of the extended monsoon and Narmada river bridge...

Right. Right. So all this will catch up in this Q4 and Q1.

So can you just give...

Now everything has come down to, again, completely -- the project has now come to fast track. So we're trying to maintain the scheduled completion date as it is. So we increased more resources and we are trying to catch up with the run rate.

So what is the CapEx for 9 months and Q4 you are expecting, CapEx?

CapEx for the balance 2 months is not very significant. But for the 9 months gone by, total CapEx done during the 9 months was approximately -- I'll come back on that, one second, sir.

And sir, just for the ACL portfolio with SBI Macquarie, can you just give us a breakup between the equity -- the sub-debt and the external debt for 7 portfolio?

So equity on SPV, right?

As you are comfortable. It's up to you, sir.

Well, we could come back separately on that.

But total -- you can tell -- the total equity, if you can. SPV is fine, but if you -- just total equity...

Total equity approximately 14 -- all the projects under ACL is approximately INR 2,400 crores.

And what is the sub-debt and the loss funding which you have done so far?

That would be approximately INR 250 crores -- INR 300 crores on loss funding, basically, Sambalpur.

And sir, the external debt outstanding?

INR 4,281 crores.

INR 4,281 crores?

Sorry, INR 4,821 crores, not 4,281 crores.

And sir, what is the mobilization advances and retentions as on December, sir?

Mobilization advance as of December is around INR 340 crores.

Sorry, sir, INR 240 crores?

INR 340 crores.

INR 340 crores. And retentions?

Retentions, I'll have to come back.

Sir, any -- so what is the mobilization expected...

Mr. Rushi, I'm really sorry to interrupt, but may we request you to rejoin the queue as there are several participants waiting their turn. We move to the next question. The next question is from the line of Vaibhav Shah from Centrum Broking.

So what are the T&D receivables that we have currently? And how have they moved on over the past quarter?

On the power -- on the T&D, right?

Yes, power T&D?

Around -- total receivables in power would be approximately INR 600 crores.

And what was the number during last quarter?

We'll come back on that.

Okay. Sir, and with respect to our new HAM, Kandi-Ramsanpalle. So if we see that the EPC cost is quite lower at INR 586 crores. So what could be the reason for that?

Equity? The project cost is less...

EPC cost.

EPC cost?

Yes, the EPC cost...

Because project size is small because the projects -- basically the project size is almost 20% lower than the BPC. And accordingly, around, say, INR 650-odd crores would be the EPC price. IDC plus other things would be around INR 720 crores, would be the project cost, INR 750 crores.

Okay. Sir, and what would be our inflow guidance for FY '21?

What would be our...

Inflow guidance? Order inflow guidance?

We expect biddings to happen in the next 6 weeks, we believe. And we'll try to target at least INR 3,000 crores to INR 4,000 crores of order book either in HAM or EPC. In the -- because whatever biddings have been postponed, we'll continue to participate in those. So against our target of INR 5,000 crores to INR 6,000 crores, we'll try to at least do, within these 2 months, INR 3,000 crores to INR 4,000 crores.

The next question is from the line of Ashish Kumar from Infinity Alternatives.

Sorry, maybe I joined a little late in the call. But just wanted to understand where are we on the transaction for unwinding the Macquarie stake? And do we expect -- when do we expect it to close?

Can you repeat the question, sir?

The sale of the stake in Ashoka -- ACL for unwinding the Macquarie stake, where are we? Have we got any term sheets?

As decided, we are already in the process of diligence. And we are talking to investors on the subject. And we expect clarity by March -- before March end.

But do we expect our equity stake to get diluted further or will it be that 39% only based on our discussion.

That will all depend on the valuation, which actually pans out and our minimum number, which we have already disclosed, INR 1,500 crores, the Macquarie should be making in their transaction, their investment -- on their investment.

So we were only known by end March as to whether we need to dilute...

Before March end.

The next question is from the line of Parikshit Kandpal from HDFC securities.

Sir, earlier in the call, we have said that, that the 7 ACL assets, equity investor is INR 2,400 crores is only the 7 assets, right, of SBI Macquarie?

These are 7 assets. Equity, which I told about. Yes, 7 assets. 7 plus the 2. So it is -- we have -- for Bettadahalli and Kandi, the investment will basically start in '20-'21, '21-'22.

No, no. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the SBI Macquarie portfolio of 7 assets, the total equity invested is INR 2,400 crores, right?

The INR 2,400 crores is for all, invested by Macquarie and by Ashoka Buildcon, for all the assets, 7 beautiful assets, annuity as well as HAM assets.

Okay. But the monetization, which you're looking at is for 7 assets of -- which you have earlier with SBI Macquarie, right?

Yes. And there is also opportunities available for...

So what will be the equity of those -- only those 7 assets? If you can give a breakup of equity and...

Approximately INR 1,900 crores.

How much, sir? INR 1,900 crores equity?

Yes, yes. The INR 500 crores has been invested in the HAM projects.

So only for 7 assets, I'm talking about?

Yes. So out of INR 2,400 crores, INR 500 crores have been invested in the HAM.

Okay, INR 500 crores in HAM and balance INR 1,900 in these 7 assets. And this INR 1,900 crores -- does it include loss funding as well? Because you spoke about INR 300 crores of loss funding. So this INR 1,900 crores includes that loss funding or...

Yes, it does.

Okay. So it includes that INR 300 crores of loss funding?

Right. Right.

And this INR 1,900 crores includes -- what is our share in this INR 1,900 crores, ACL's -- Ashoka share?

So INR 800 crores is of Macquarie.

Okay. Okay. And just last thing, sir, what will be the total debt of these 7 assets? I think you mentioned about INR 4,800 crores for the total portfolio. So what will be the debt of -- net debt of these 7 assets?

One second. So on the 7 assets, as of December, it would be around INR 950 crores.

INR 950 crores total, 7 assets debt?

Yes, Kharar, Ranastalam, Ankleshwar and Khairatunda. These are the 4 assets where we have taken debt. Others debt are yet to start to drop because...

No. I'm talking about only the 7 HAM -- 7 assets of SBI Macquarie, beauty assets, sorry?

INR 3,713 crores.

INR 3,713 crores. Just last one thing, sir. If you can give the breakup of other income? How much has been the interest on the advances to the subsidiaries?

Advances to the subsidiaries?

What is the other income breakup? If you can give me what is the...

Other income breakup in the stand-alone?

Yes, yes.

One second. Majorly, it is interest income from subsidiaries and joint ventures of around INR 30 crores. Then bank deposits and other interest is around, say, INR 4 crores, and that's the major breakup.

So this INR 30 crores will continue until we monetize, I mean, these assets?

Yes.

Okay. So next year onwards, we'll see a substantial reduction in this -- whenever the money is coming. So from there on this reduction will happen?

Right, right.

The next question is from the line of Parvez Akhtar from Edelweiss.

A couple of questions from my side. What would have been the equity that we would have infused in Q3?

Q3, around INR 25 crores.

And this would have been entirely in the Road segment? Or was there something in the CGD segment also?

Nothing in the CGD segment. It's only in Road sector.

Sure. What is the kind of CapEx that we are looking at going ahead?

Approximately for 2021, we will be in the range of around INR 75 crores to INR 80 crores of CapEx.

Okay. And just lastly, one thing to clarify, the INR 3,000 crore to INR 4,000 crore order intake that we are targeting, this is over and above what we have already won this year, right?

Right.

The next question is from the line of Mohit Kumar from IDFC Securities.

Sir, this toll number, toll collection remain low. How -- can you just comment on the traffic growth for each of these stages?

So -- yes, toll growth continues to remain low. If you've gone through the presentation, presentation talks about the ACL portfolio as 1% negative growth year-on-year for the quarter. If we consider the toll rate rise impact also, then the traffic growth would be in the range of 3% negative growth. So that is there. Majorly contributed by Jaora-Nayagaon in Sambalpur where the traffic degrowth is higher in this quarter. These are majorly due to certain activity -- in Jaora-Nayagaon, there is certain construction activity happening south -- northwards of the project where traffic has been temporarily shifted. We expect the temporary to shift back by Q2 next year.

So has anything improved after the FASTag implementation for us?

Not significantly as of now. Of course, the ratio of FASTag to others are definitely increased more than 50%. But otherwise, not much of it -- not significant impact on the collection growth.

And sir, secondly, on this NHAI arbitration, given that the government has come out -- CCS come out with a new mechanism and the -- and there is sense of urgency, which seems from the media releases. Sir, is -- have you seen anything on the ground which has changed materially over the last 3, 4 -- last 2, 3 months?

I've not followed your question.

No, sir, given the fact that we also have a large arbitration claim and award, I'm asking, has anything materially changed from the government side or NHAI side to resolve this...

Yes, yes, we have applied to government for 4 of our arbitration claims where we have 3 awards in our favor for settlement and one which is under arbitration. So 4 applications we have done to NHAI, and we hope that constellation process should start soon.

The next question is from the line of Parikshit Kandpal from HDFC Securities.

So sir, next year, what kind of revenue growth we are looking at for FY '21?

This will all be the function of incoming orders, which we bag in the next 2 quarters. So looking at current order book, yes, at least we'll be able to do decent numbers because always project should be on quite advanced stage of execution. But if you can back in the order book of INR 3,000 crores, INR 4,000 crores, then definitely we look at 35% plus growth.

As of now, the current visibility, 10% kind of growth we can do for next year, from the current order book, 10% to 15%?

Current order book, yes, 10% to 15% is very much possible.

The next question is from the line of Jiten Rushi from BOB Capital.

Sir, can you just highlight on the bank limits, nonfund and fund limit?

So we have a fund limit of -- total working capital limit of INR 350 crores, that is CC limits; and supply chain financing of around INR 200 crores. We have bank guarantee and nonfund-based limits of around INR 3,800 crores.

Okay. So what is the utilization of nonfund limit?

Nonfund limit would be around, say, 60%.

60%. Okay. And sir, the other income, which you're talking about, the INR 30 crores interest you received on subsidiary. So that is the actual cash we have received this quarter or...

No. Majorly, this interest is received from ACL, where we have given loans. So it is typically not cash. It is accrued basis. Most of it.

Okay. Okay. And sir, the retention number and the CapEx for 9 months, you are supposed to come back. Can you get the numbers? Or should I get back to you later?

Retention money is approximately INR 230 crores and CapEx for 9 months is around INR 36 crores.

Okay. And sir, last time you had guided for INR 100 crores CapEx for FY '20. So now this CapEx would be around INR 50 crores this year then, broadly?

CapEx is around, say, INR 50 crores. But because of this -- couple of projects getting delayed appointed date, we're looking at -- for the CapEx in 2021.

And sir, what is the mobilization expected in Q4?

Q4, maybe mobilization will be majorly approximately, for TS-1 and TS-2.

And this Bundhelkhand, this...

And EPC project of Bettadahalli where we have already received the amounts in this last 40 days.

So what is the...

In Bundhelkhand, 5% we have received. Another 5% we are about to receive.

So TS-1, TS-2, 10%; Bundhelkhand, again, 10%; and the Bettadahalli 10%. That is what I can assume?

Bettadahalli may probably come in the Q1 because we expect the [ FC ] to happen by...

Next quarter...

4 months' time. So next...

Bundhelkhand, 5% has already come in. Balance 5% will come in now.

But that 5% you've received in Q3 -- Q4, only, right, sir?

Q4, yes.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Koundinya N. from JM Financial.

Sir, I just want to understand what is the pending arbitration claim from NHAI for us? And if there are any other amounts from any other authority?

2 arbitration awards, which we have won, for which we have applied for reconsideration is around INR 200 crores. And one, which is under arbitration claim is around INR 350 crores.

INR 650 crores, sir?

Total -- so around -- INR 350 crores. So total around INR 550 crores, out of which INR 200 crores are urgency work and INR 350 crores is what we have claimed, which is on the arbitration.

Understood. Sir -- and second question, sir, on the new BOT concession agreement. So what is your view? I know that in the last con call, you have highlighted that we are not interested in participating in the BOT. So just on industry outlook, do you see the new BOT concession agreement favoring the developers? Or what's your view on that?

No, we will take a call when this really comes out for bidding and depending upon what kind of relief authorities are giving in the agreements now.

Okay. Sorry, sir, I missed you. Can you repeat, please?

It will not dependent upon comfort on traffic numbers they give us because estimating traffic and uncertainties [indiscernible] highways. So on this, there has to be some comfort given by the authorities in the concession agreement. If there is some comfort given, then we can go ahead with BOT. Otherwise, we would like to play with HAM projects.

That was the last question in queue. I would now like to hand the conference back to Mr. Ashish Shah for closing comments.

Yes. On behalf of Centrum Broking, I thank everyone for participating in the call. And thank you to the management of Ashoka Buildcon for giving us the opportunity to host the call. Thank you, Mr. Parakh. Thank you, Mr. Mehta.

Thank you very much.

Thank you. Thank you, everyone.

Thank you very much. On behalf of Centrum Broking Limited, that concludes the conference. Thank you for joining us, ladies and gentlemen. You may now disconnect your lines.