Ashoka Buildcon Limited (ASHOKA) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Q2 FY '25 Earnings Conference Call of Ashoka Buildcon Limited hosted by Nirmal Bang Equities Private Limited. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Jyoti Gupta from Nirmal Bang Equities. Thank you, and over to you, ma'am.

Thank you, Luca. Hello, everyone. On behalf of Nirmal Bang Institutional Equities, I welcome you all to the Ashoka Buildcon Limited Quarter 2 FY '25 Earnings Conference Call. We have with us Mr. Satish Parakh, Managing Director; and Mr. Paresh Mehta, Chief Financial Officer. Without further ado, I request Mr. Satish Parakh, sir, to start with his opening comments. After which, we can open the floor to question and answer. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you, Jyoti. Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone. Hope everyone had a great Diwali festival and all are doing well. On behalf of Ashoka Buildcon Limited, I extend a warm welcome to everyone joining us today to discuss our business and financial results for quarter and half year ended 30th September 2024. On this call, we are joined by our CFO, Mr. Paresh Mehta, and SGA, our Investor Relations adviser. Let me begin by giving an industry overview. India is experiencing a massive boost in road infrastructure investment, bringing a major shift in connectivity and economic growth. To support rapid growth in the transport network, the National Highway Authority of India, NHAI, has launched ambitious road development projects. And these actions aim to cut travel times, improve -- improvements and build a strong road system for the future of India. Through national monetization plan, NHAI has attracted substantial investment from both local and global sources using creative financing approaches. These includes focusing on toll operate and transfer projects and infrastructure investment plus, which have helped scale up road development efforts like never before. Road investment in India has sped up significantly in recent years. NHAI has awarded 16 TOT bundles raising about INR 49,000 crores and has also raised around INR 25,900 crores under the NMP. A key factor driving this growth is the strong increase in toll revenue, bolstered by development like FASTag revenue tool, rate adjustments for inflation, and overall economic growth. Over the past 5 years, total toll collection has grown by 2.6x, reaching around INR 65,000 crores in FY '24. These measures have supported higher passenger and freight traffic, significantly increasing the revenue for the country. Coming to the company. Ashoka Concessions Limited, a subsidiary of the company, has entered into share purchase agreement with Indian Highways Concessions Trust internally for development -- for divestment of its 5 subsidiaries. The aggregate enterprise value of the transaction is either INR 5,718 crores, subject to adjustment of cash and debt, translating into an equity value of INR 2,539 crores. The company has entered into SPA to acquire 34% of equity of ACL, along with 7,741,250 Class A CCDs and 2 crores class B CCDs from Macquarie SBI Infrastructure Investment Private Limited and SBI Macquarie Infrastructure Trust for INR 1,536 crores. The company, along with its subsidiary, Viva Highways Limited and ACL, has entered into an agreement with investors for the following transaction which shall be subject to completion of sale of certain project assets of ACL, the company -- and thereby providing an exit to the investors from ACL. Post acquisition of ACL securities held by investors, ACL would become a wholly owned subsidiary of the company with effect from the date of acquisition of ACL securities. Viva Highways Limited, a subsidiary of the company, to acquire investments of investors totaling 74,600,020,000 equity shares, comprising of 26% equity share held in Jaora Nayagaon Toll Road Company at an aggregate consideration of INR 150 crores. Monetization of land. Land owned by Viva Highways Limited, our wholly owned subsidiary, under its real estate portfolio situated at Hinjewadi, Pune, has been monetized for a total consideration of INR 453 crores. Now on the projects front, let me give you an update. The company has a recent completion certificate for its HAM project: Four-laning of NH-161 from Kandi to Ramsanpalle in the State of Telangana from August 2024. The project is executed by Ashoka Kandi Ramsanpalle Road Private Limited, a wholly owned subsidiary of the company. The SPV has received a certificate for completion of entire project stretch of 39.98 kilometers. Consequent to this, the SPV will receive annuity for the entire stretch 39.98 kilometers. The company has received 3 LOAs from Mumbai Metropolitan Region Development Authority, MMRDA, in October 2024 aggregating to INR 1,737.86 crore. Company has also received LOA from CIDCO for EPC project, which is for the integrated infrastructure development under NAINA project for a value of INR 1,673.24 crores. This is in JV where the company is the lead member with 51% stake. The company received a letter of acceptance for Maharashtra State Road Development Corporation, that is MSRDCL, in October 2024 for an aggregate value of INR 2,309.99 crores. Company has also received LOA for the BMC project of construction of flyover at T Junction on Sion Panvel Highway with project value of INR 1,126.58 crores inclusive of GST. Company received the provisional completion order from NHAI project, where the company has informed at September 15, 2024, as the commercial operation date for a stretch of 39.07 kilometers as per letter issued by independent engineer for its HAM project of NHAI, or Hybrid Annuity Mode under Bharatmala Pariyojana. The project is executed by Ashoka Baswantpur Signodi Road Private Limited, a wholly owned subsidiary of the company. The SPV has received a provisional completion certificate of 39.07 kilometers of the total stretch 40.6 kilometers. Upon the declaration of COD, the SPV is eligible for receipt of annuity from NHAI for the operational period of 15 years at the interval of every 6 months from September 15, 2024. In addition to this, Ashoka Buildcon Limited is also declared as lowest bidder, L1, for MSETCL project on November 1, 2024. It's a domestic project for establishment of 400/220 kV substation EPC work at Nandgaon district. The project bid price is INR 312.3 crores including GST. Coming to the order book status. As on September 30, 2024, our balance order book stands at INR 11,104 crores. This excludes additional orders received from projects post September '24 worth INR 4,320 crores and also excludes L1 of INR 265 crores. The total of current order book stands at INR 15,424 crores. The breakup as on September '24 is: Road and railway project [ compromise ] around INR 6,582 crores, which is 59.3% of the total order book. Among the road project order book, HAM projects are to the tune of INR 844 crores. And EPC road projects are worth INR 5,185 crores. And railway is around INR 844 crores. Power T&D accounts for INR 3,939 crores, which is approximately 35.5% of the total order book. The total EPC building segment is INR 583 crores, which is 5% of the total order book. To conclude, let me share this again, that at our primary focus moments on maintaining a sustainable EPC business in segments [ compromising ] of highways, railways, power transmission, distribution and buildings. This is all from my side. I would now request Mr. Paresh Mehta to present the financial performance. Thank you.

Thank you, sir. Good afternoon, everyone. Starting with the standalone numbers for Q2 and H1 FY '25. The total income of Q2 FY '25 stood at INR 1,459 crores as compared to INR 1,590 crores in Q2 FY '24 with a drop of approximately 8%. EBITDA for the quarter stood at INR 160 crores with an EBITDA margin of 11%. Finance costs during the quarter has increased by INR 18 crores on a Y-o-Y basis due to an increase in long-term borrowings. This is largely on account of increase in working capital cycle of power orders and constitutes interest paid to 100% substitute -- or 100% subsidiaries where the funds are being borrowed from the 100% subsidiaries. PAT stood a INR 36 crores for the quarter. For H1 '25, the total income stood at INR 3,295 crores as compared to INR 3,093 crores, a growth of 7%. EBITDA for the period stood at INR 305 crores, a growth of 14% with EBITDA margins improving by 60 basis points to 9.1%. Reported PBT grew by 4% to INR 121 crores and PAT is INR 77 crores. Our revenue contribution for each segment for Q2 FY '25 is as follows. Road EPC and road HAM contributed 49%. Power EPC contributed 28%. Railways stood at 12%. And other segments, like building EPC and others, contributed to 11%. Coming to the consolidated results. The total income for Q2 FY '25 stood at INR 2,489 crores as compared to INR 2,154 crores in Q2 FY '24, which has seen a growth 16%. EBITDA for the quarter stood at INR 945 crores, a growth of 61% Y-o-Y. PAT grew by 334% Y-o-Y to INR 463 crores. For H1 FY '25, total income stood at INR 4,954 crores as compared to INR 4,090 crores as on Q2 FY '24, registering a growth of 21%. EBITDA for the quarter stood at INR 1,573 crores, a growth of 43% year-on-year. PAT stood at INR 620 crores, growth of 269%. Total consolidated debt as on 30th September 2024, stood at INR 6,881 crores. The stand-alone debt is at INR 1,317 crores, which comprises of INR 109 crores of equipment and term loans and INR 1,209 crores for working capital loans. In Q2 FY '25, in our toll collection division, the company recorded a gross total collection of INR 316 crores as against INR 297 crores in Q2 FY '24, recording a growth of 6%. With this, we now open the floor for question and answers. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Parikshit Kandpal from HDFC Securities.

My first question is that in the first half, we have grown by 7%. But if I see your debt, it has gone up to INR 2,200 crores, including from subsidiaries. So it's a jump of almost INR 950 crores. So -- and even the working capital seems to be very weak in the first half. So what is happening on this front? Working capital has substantially increased, debt has gone up significantly. So how do we look -- so what are the key reasons for this? And how do we look for these numbers in coming quarters?

So it's typically as one of the point that we've given, is that working capital on the power sector which we had won a lot of contracts in '23, have been executed largely in this 2 years, 1.5 years, a very -- the working capital cycle in the power sector is longer, elongated. That is the reason these working capital cycle has increased, which has been typically funded both by loan from subsidiaries as well as loan from the working capital lenders. So what we expect is by -- these projects will come to an end by March to June next year, and where we'll see this number is going down by INR 300 crores to INR 400 crores at least.

No, sir, I'm just talking about this quarter. So even if I look from March to September, the debt is up by INR 800 crores. So in 6 months, what has gone up? Because are there -- one thing is that your margins are not coming. So you are supporting the projects. And since the cash flows is a shortfall, so you are supplementing it with increased debt. And that means that the debt will eventually become very sticky and it will not reduce. So this INR 2,200 crores stays on your balance sheet, and you will look forward to only reduce it from the cash flows from the monetization proceeds. So because this is only 6 months, I'm not talking about -- even YoY, 6 months is INR 800 crores, Y-o-Y, 12 months, it's almost INR 950 crores. So there's not much of a difference on this. But what we know that has happened over the last 6 months.

Yes. So basically, I just said, there is a large requirement of working capital in the power sector and certain receivables in the road sector where the projects are coming to an end and there are certain receivables which will be received, as well as the project is handed off totally because these are projects coming to an end. So we will see the change. No doubt that there is ramp-up in this quarter. But if you also see, as of June 30, there was a large cash balance which was used for working capital. So if that cash balance would not have been there and what would have been used for reducing the debt, then this difference should not be that much. If you see as of June 30, they were almost cash balance of INR 357 crores which are receivables received at the end of the quarter June 30. The effective increase in working capital debt between June 30 and September 30 is to be adjusted for almost INR 300 crores of cash lying in the books as of June 30.

Okay. I'll take it off-line, sir. I'm still not able to understand. I'm going to take it off-line. Our numbers are not matching. Second question is on the margin. in Q3 or Q4 FY '24, you have said that -- FY '23, you had said that the margin will continue for 2 more quarters or 2, 3 quarters. And then every quarter, that deadline has been shifting back to 3 quarters. The only thing which has remained constant is that shifting of quarters by 2, 3, and we have already behind schedule by almost, I think 3, 4 quarters. And we're still not able to reach double-digit margins. So my question is that why don't we do cost of completion accounting and take the write-off on all these projects and we move to normalized margin? Because this plain -- the guidance is not being met, and every time, I'm missing it. So when do we get to that double-digit number is a big question now because, again, last quarter, you said 2, 3 quarters. So now do you think that in Q3 or Q4, we'll be back to double-digit margins.

No, I don't think so we'll be back on double-digit margin. It's not due to that we can change the margin. Margin's at what have been settled for the past 2, 3 years for these projects. And these projects are coming to an end. The new projects, whenever the deals take off -- probably February or March, the new projects have been -- which have already coming, which are better margins. So the double-digit numbers would be seen only in Q1, Q2 FY '26.

The original deadline almost moved ahead by almost a year. So we expect it now Q2 FY '26, that we start hitting double-digit margins?

Yes.

Just the last question. What was the total order inflow for the financial year to date in '25?

Around INR 6,000 crores.

The guidance for the full year? So if you can give some color on full year guidance, and how is the bid pipeline looking? So that's my last question.

So bid pipeline is there. Around INR 1 lakh crore bidding is there from NHAI. Out of which, INR 65,000, we'll be participating. There are bids to be opened of around INR 9,000 crores which we already bid. And bid opening is yet to balance. And we hope we should pick up around INR 4,000 crores to INR 5,000 crores in balance part of the year.

The next question is from the line of Mohit Kumar from ICICI Securities.

My first question is, sir, are we still maintaining your guidance of 10% growth in revenues for the entire fiscal F '25 and EBITDA of 9.5%? Or do you think that EBITDA will beat the EBITDA guidance?

So on the execution side, keeping in view the orders which have come in and their expected date of start of activities, we believe that the revenue top line may be flattish for this year, so what we have said or thought in the last quarter. As far as EBITDA concerned, we expect at least it should improve by 0.5% for the next 2 quarters.

0.5%. [indiscernible] 9% for the next 2 quarters?

8.5%.

8.5%, the number we achieved in the Q2, it's your number.

Then Q4 -- then we start our new orders. That time, the revenues will then start looking into that 10-plus numbers.

Given the fact that we have been doing below 10% for a very long time, what makes you confident of getting into double-digit for the project which you won earlier? Were there the fixed price contract? What is different about the new orders?

Yes. As we -- because explained in the last few, couple of quarters. The margins have been lower on the projects which we have won in the last 2.5, 3 years post-COVID. So that's the intrinsic part of it. These orders now being -- coming to an end, will change. And we now continue to bid at double-digit margins, 11% to 12%. So these are for orders which were taken in the past, and the impact of -- as they were fixed price contract, the impact of inflation or increase in prices have had an impact on the margins.

My last question is Jaora-Nayagaon and Chennai ORR. Are you looking to sell these assets to [ NIF ]? Where we are right now? Is the earlier [indiscernible]?

So as far as [ NIF SP ] was concerned, it had a long stop date which has expressed quite some time back. So presently, it is not on -- the SP is not live. But we continue to engage. We -- as far as Chennai ORR is concerned, we could consolidate our stakes. And we are in the process of structuring the debt on that and then take it to the market for sale. As far as JTC is concerned, we are still awaiting permissions from the state government, MSRDC, for a transfer of 26% of shares. And in that -- meanwhile, we'll also try to consolidate the balance, 26%, which is being helped by Macquarie.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of [ Hari Kumar ], an individual investor.

Am I audible?

Yes, sir.

Yes. My question is regarding 35% stake by INR 1,500 crores, and the total sale consideration we are getting is INR 2,500 crores. Am I right, sir?

Yes, for the BOT projects, correct.

Yes. So for 60%, we are getting only INR 1,000 crores. Or I am wrong on my assumption, sir?

So these sale of assets are presently only of the 5 BOT projects, which SPs have been signed. We also have other assets in ACL which will represent the balance, 66%, also. So having acquired 34% from SBI Macquarie, post that, all the other assets will be part of 100% ownership of ABL. So we have HAM projects, 7 HAM projects under ACL, plus certain shares of Jaora-Nayagaon, which also has -- is of value to be available to ABL for monetizing.

Okay, sir. And my second question, sir, this land sale by our subsidiary has been recorded in this September quarter account, sir? Or it's not yet included in the books?

It has been recorded, and it has -- it is reflected in the consol numbers because this land sale was held by the 100% subsidiary of Ashoka Buildcon Limited, [indiscernible] Limited. And that's the reason we see the consol numbers quite robust.

Okay. It's not shown as other income. It has been shown as regular income, sir?

Yes. It's because the land purchase/sale is part of ACL's business, so it showed a regular revenue.

Okay. Sir, my last question, sir, regarding the end of the year. Can you give an estimate of the consolidated debt profile because of the sale? How much are we going to end up as an estimate, sir?

So by the end of this quarter -- by end of this year, we probably -- the INR 6,800 will be used by debt, which is already on the 5 BOT projects of INR 2,400. If that deal happens, that will go down. Certain debt on the HAM projects also will go down, which we intend to sell. So today, it's difficult to estimate what exactly, but we expect that at least of INR 3,000 crores, INR 3,500-odd crores of debt definitely will go down before March. And then balance will happen in post March.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Vishal Periwal from Antique Stockbroking.

So on the margins front, just a clarification. So you mentioned the second half margin may be 50 basis points higher than what we have done in the first half. Is that fair...

You could expect do that, yes, definitely.

Okay, okay. So I mean, like in the first half is almost like 7.5% to -- I mean, it's touching like 8% in the second half. That's what we could see. Okay. And then second, on this transaction that we have done. So HAM asset is not part of it. So any color that you can provide, like anything that is happening on that front?

So we are -- as we have stated in the past, and we are constantly engaging. And we expect that in the next couple of weeks, we should be able to sign on the SPA for the HAM projects also.

Okay. So which means basically, I mean, probably in this quarter itself, I mean, that's...

Yes, yes.

Okay. And then this couple of the sort of BOT assets that we have done, so there were impairments that was taken. So I mean, like can you highlight, like will this lead to a write-back or anything on that front in the coming quarters? Or anything that you can share with us?

So there will be impairment at ACL level which will be reversed once these assets are sold off, which is almost -- at ACL balance sheet of almost INR 800 crores. And at ABL balance sheet, there could be a reversal of approximately INR 250 crores to INR 300 crores post sale.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Jyoti Gupta from Nirmal Bang Equities.

As I heard correctly, you said that the current order book will be executed in the next, let's say, 3 quarters. And then you would be bidding in for projects which will give you double-digit margin. What projects would that be, sir?

No, no. What we have clarified is that the new projects which we have won, there they -- the execution of that will largely start somewhere in the last month of FY '25. And then it will be full swing in FY '25, '26, wherein then, we will be in a position to book a double-digit margin.

Okay. All right. So what is the current -- how do we see this quarter? I mean, we see that the second quarter was impacted because of several reasons. How do we -- how should we see third quarter now? Has the execution picked up pace? And fourth quarter, you are more positive. So are there green shoots here?

So we -- as we said, primarily, we will end up this year, '25, in a flattish sense. So we'll have a marginal growth in the revenue based on the existing order book, which is getting over a period of time. So overall, we will do the similar turnover, which we did in last year -- last half year, H2.

Okay. And what would be the outlook for FY '26, sir?

FY '26, based on this order book, and maybe next order book, we should definitely look at -- after getting new orders, to grow by 10% to 15%.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Parikshit Kandpal from HDFC Securities.

Sir, this land sale is reflected in which line item in the consolidated?

In the revenue only, adjusted. Revenue from operations. So...

Sir, how much is [indiscernible] and how much is [indiscernible] of that?

INR 452 crores.

And you have received the payments, the payments also [indiscernible]?

Yes.

Okay. And so what is this arrangement with the subsidiary, the land debt which has gone up from a subsidiary? If I do the math from presentation, that the balance sheet, there's a difference. So what is that arrangement with the subsidiary?

[Foreign Language]

So this INR 950 crores difference between the presentation debt of INR 1,317 and the balance sheet debt INR 2,250 crores. There is a difference of INR 950 crores. So which has increased over the year, this number has been increasing, the difference between the two. So what is that...

INR 950 crores is loan proceed from the subsidiaries.

Is this for working capital?

Which has been used for working capital.

So instead of banks, you're borrowing from subsidiaries, the INR 950 crores.

It's 100% subsidiary. Like whatever land was monetized, this INR 450 crores, most of it was upstreamed to ABL for ABL's operations.

Now do you think this is the peak debt? I mean, with now the growth improving, this working capital debt of INR 2,250 crores, including the INR 950 crore subsidiary debt. So this will keep ballooning from here also as the growth picks up? Or this is a peak debt now?

From a internal perspective, it's a peak debt. But from perspective of realization of monetization money and a mix of new HAM projects and BOT prices coming up, we cannot immediately say what -- how they could peak out. But I think we should be close to a peak.

But what could be the nonrecurring part in this? I mean, because we were under assumption that once you do the BOT, there'll be some release of cash, which is not...

[indiscernible] this will happen maybe next year, '25-'26.

Is this a way of telling that the INR 2,200 crores will keep sitting now for some quarters before it starts reducing?

Yes, by Q4 or Q5 -- sorry, Q1 '26, it will start reducing.

So without the repayment -- I mean, without repayment from the monetization proceeds. So on an absolute basis, as the margins come back and we generate operating cash flow, will this number will start reducing?

Yes, definitely.

But increasing from here on, you don't see significant headroom for this to grow from here now?

I don't expect because they are almost essential working capital has been provided for the projects. And the projects will now be throwing back the realization of debtors and the WIP, which will then rationalize the working capital.

So what's the impact of [indiscernible] connections from the clients which have impacted or elevated this working capital? Because all the companies have seen that, during this quarter, there has been delays from release from the government agencies. Maharashtra has been in 2 elections. So will you attribute a part of this increase also to that? Or this is the normal business course increase in the debt?

Largely based on the working capital cycle. Of course, partly also on these slight delays in payment being released due to various non-administrative reasons. But capital cycle plays that way. So power projects which have been -- which require initial capital for procurement and other things, they pick up a lot of working capital requirement because on the purchase side, there's a lot of competition buying so you need to pay the vendors.

But sir, when I look at the cash flows on the stand-alone side, actually the increase is coming because the trade payable is going down. So not because of...

We have used that money for -- you say the trade payables more, but correspondingly, the election has been slower at the -- from the client side.

But trade payables for what? What kind of trade payables have...

[indiscernible] and vendors for my power and road projects.

Okay. And so you've given them advances for procuring the...

If you see that, trade payables have gone into WIP and debt from purchase of materials for my power projects.

The next question is from the line of Vasudev from Nuvama Wealth.

So sir, after we've acquired the 34% from SBI Macquarie for INR 1,526 crores. Will there still be anything remaining to be paid after that? And when do you expect this acquisition to get completed?

So as far as ACL is concerned, after payment of INR 1,526 crores, Ashoka Buildcon will become 100% owner of ACL. We expect this transaction -- the launch update for this transaction is June '25, and we expect to get that done somewhere in the month of March -- April, May '25.

Okay, okay, sir. And for the Jaora-Nayagaon, the Chennai ORR, any tentative time lines when we might again start to look for monetization of these projects?

See, this will happen somewhere in '25-'26. We recently focus on the BOT and HAM projects which we have already signing on.

Perfect. Okay, sir. And sir, if you can help me with the total equity requirements for the HAM project. How much have you already infused? And how much do we plan for FY '25-'26?

The balance equity for our current HAM projects is approximately INR 100 crores.

Okay. And how much of this would be infused in H2 then?

It should be totally infused before March.

Okay. And lastly, sir, what is the CapEx that we did in H1? And how much are you planning for the second half?

So in H1, we did CapEx of approximately INR 33 crores. And in [ FY2 ], we may prepare another INR 35 crores to INR 40 crores. That's H2, sorry. Not FY, H2.

The next question is from the line of Anant Mundra from Mytemple Capital.

Sir, what was the book value of the land that we sold in this quarter?

So approximately INR 65-odd crores. INR 65-odd crores.

Sorry, I missed the numbers. How much was it?

Approximately INR 65 crores.

INR 65 crores.

Yes.

So -- and INR 65 crores, we've recorded a revenue of INR 435 crores, correct?

Yes, plus other expenses, net, we are recording a profit of INR 370 crores.

INR 370 crores. And sir, after this monetization, what is the land bank that we have remaining? The book value of the land bank that we have?

So we would have approximately INR 210 crores of land bank with our subsidiaries which will be available for sale and which could have maybe a value 3 to 4x at least. These are land banks on an average hold of 6 to 7 years.

Okay. All right. So sir, in spite of these INR 435 crores flowing in this quarter, the consol debt has not been reduced. And the [indiscernible]. Is that understanding correct on the power projects work and [indiscernible]. That should again normalize and start...

Largely, this amount has been utilized for payment of -- the payables of power and EPC projects.

Got it. And sir...

I'm sorry to interrupt, sir. Your voice is breaking, sir.

Is this better? Hello?

Yes. Now it's better.

So what is the total equity plus loss funding that we've done for the 5 BOT projects that we're going to monetize?

Approximately INR 2,300 crores.

INR 2,300 crores. Against that, we are getting about INR 2,500 crores, right? INR 2,500 crores to INR 2,600 crores.

Right.

And some INR 1,500-odd crores is what they're going to pay to SBI Macquarie, which is already provided for in the book.

Right.

All right. And sir, what was the -- I mean, if you have that number handy, these 5 BOT projects would have contributed to how much PAT for FY '23 and '24?

I would not have it off hand.

But was it profit-making?

What?

Were they making profit?

The EBITDA definitely will be positive. And most of the projects would be plus also. Maybe you can take it off-line and I could give you that data.

Got it, got it, sir. And sir, this land parcel that we sold, is this -- has this been sold with some related party?

No, no. It has been sold. We have declared it was sold to Microsoft India.

Thank you. As there are no further questions from the participants, I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments. Over to you, sir.

I hope we have been able to answer most of your queries. We look forward to your participation in the next quarter call. For any further questions, you may get in touch with SGA, our investor relations advisers, or ourselves. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you, everyone.

Thank you very much. On behalf of Nirmal Bang Equities, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.