Ashoka Buildcon Limited (ASHOKA) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Q4 FY '25 Earnings Call of Ashoka Buildcon hosted by Nirmal Bang Equities Private Limited. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Sarthak Singh from Nirmal Bang Equities Private Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you, Anirudh. Good afternoon, everyone. On behalf of Nirmal Bang Institutional Equities, I welcome you to the Quarter 4 FY '25 Earnings Conference Call with the management of Ashoka Buildcon Limited. We have with us Mr. Satish Parakh, Managing Director; and Mr. Paresh Mehta, CFO. Without further ado, I would now request Mr. Satish Parakh sir, to start with his opening comments, after which we can open the floor for question and answers. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Good afternoon. On behalf of Ashoka Buildcon Limited, I extend warm welcome to everyone joining us today to discuss our business and financial results for Q4 FY '25 ended 31st March 2025. On this call, we have joined with our CFO, Mr. Paresh Mehta, and SGA, our Investor Relations adviser. Let me begin by giving an industry overview. India's infrastructure sector remains a core pillar for the country's economic development strategy. The government continues to prioritize infrastructure as a key foundation for growth and a driver towards its 5 trillion economy target. Flagship programs like the National Infrastructure Pipeline and PM Gati Shakti are helping streamline planning and improve execution across key segments, including roads, railways, roads, airports and urban development. FY 2024-'25 has been a relatively muted year from the infrastructure overall. However, National Highways Authority of India, NHAI, delivered a strong performance, building 5,614 kilometers of highways during this year. Capital spending crossed over INR 2.5 lakh crores, which is the highest ever and shows strong progress across ongoing infrastructure projects. Looking ahead, the outlook of highways segment remains positive. The government has announced a major investment plan of INR 10 lakh crore over the next 2 years towards improving infrastructure. These efforts aim to bring Indian highways in line with global standards. We have seen strong progress in recent years. The National Highway network has grown from 91,287 kilometers in 2014 to 146,000 kilometers today with marked improvement both in quality and execution. Now on monetization front, NHAI raised INR 28,724 crores through models like TOT, InvIT and Toll Securitization. Notably INR 17,738 crores came from InvIT alone, marking the highest ever collection from this model. Overall, the infrastructure continues to see strong support from the private sector, backed by stable government policies and new financing models. With a healthy pipeline of upcoming projects and a growing focus on digital and sustainable infrastructure, we believe the sector is well placed for steady long-term growth. Coming to the company update. To update on sale disposal of stakes in subsidiaries of Ashoka Concessions Limited. This is in reference to our early announcement about proposed sale of entire shareholding in 5 BOT subsidiaries of Ashoka Concession Limited to Maple Infrastructure Trust. The completion of this transaction has been delayed as some of the required conditions are still being worked on. In agreement with the proposed investor, the new expected date to complete the transaction is 30th June 2025. Coming to the order book status. The company has received 2 new project orders. The first came in March 2025 from Maharashtra State Electricity transmission company. It's worth INR 311.92 crores and involve setting up 400/220 kV substation at Amravati district in Maharashtra. The work includes supply erection, testing and commissioning and related civil works. The second order was received in April 2025 for Central Railways. This is EPC project for Gauge Conversion between Pachora and Jamner, excluding Pachora yard and all road over-bridges with a contract value of INR 568.86. These new orders further strengthen our position in both power transmission and railway infrastructure sector. As on 31st March 2025, our balance order book stands at INR 1,905 crores. This is excluding orders received post 31st March 2025 of INR 795 crores. The breakup of order book is as follows: roads and railways projects comprise around INR 10,687 crores, which is 60.4% of the order book. Among the road projects order book some projects are to the tune INR 1,859 crores and EPC road projects are worth INR 8,688 crores and railway is around INR 320 crores. Power T&D accounts for INR 3,618 crores which is approximately 24.3% of the total balance order book. The total EPC Building segment is INR 420 crores, which is 2.8% of the total order book. To conclude, let me say this again that our EPC primary focus remains on maintaining a sustainable EPC business and -- segments encompassing highways, railways, power transmission and distribution as well as buildings. This is all from my side, and I would now like to request Mr. Paresh Mehta to present the financial performance. Thank you.

Good afternoon, everyone. Starting with the stand-alone numbers for Q4 and FY '25, the total income for Q4 FY '25 stood at INR 2,012 crores as compared to INR 2,533 crores in Q4 FY '24, a degrowth of 21%. EBITDA for the quarter stood at INR 181 crores with EBITDA margins of 9%. PAT stood at INR 60 crores for the quarter. FY '25, the total income stood at INR 7,188 crores as compared to INR 7,841 crores, a degrowth of 8%. EBITDA for the period stood at INR 673 crores, a degrowth of 3% from EBITDA margins, but EBITDA margins improving by 60 basis point to 9.4%. PAT stood at INR 197 crores for FY '25. Our revenue contribution for each segment for Q4 FY '25 is as follows: Road EPC contributed 58.3%, Road HAM contributed 12.5%, Power EPC contributed 2.8%, railway stood at 2.11% and other segments like building, EPC and others contributed 24.3%. Coming to the consolidated results. The total income for Q4 FY '25 stood at INR 2,755 crores as compared to INR 3,138 crores in Q4 FY '24, registering a 12% growth. EBITDA for the quarter stood at INR 838 crores, a growth of 16% Y-o-Y. PAT stood at INR 452 crores. For FY '25, total income stood at INR 10,205 crores as compared to INR 10,005 crores in FY '25 -- FY '24, registering a growth of 2%. EBITDA for the quarter stood at INR 3,089 crores, a growth of 26% Y-o-Y. PAT stood at INR 1,734 crores for FY '25. Total consolidated debt as on 31st March 2025 stood at INR 6,671 crores. The stand-alone debt is at INR 1,405 crores, which encompasses INR 101 crores for equipment loans, INR 300 crores of NCD and INR 1,004 crores of working capital finance. In Q4 FY '25, in our BOT division, the company recorded a gross toll collection of INR 348 crores as against INR 329 crores in Q4 FY '24, recording a growth of 6%. With this, we now open the floor for question and answers. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] The first question comes from the line of Hardik Gandhi from HPMG Shares and Securities.

Yes. So actually, I was just looking at your closing balance sheet versus your presentation. So in your presentation, the debt is still at the similar levels as we were in the past quarter. But in the balance sheet, I can see the short-term borrowings and the long-term borrowings have decreased drastically. So I'm not able to understand why is this difference.

So they will be classified into current and noncurrent also. So maybe you can take it offline or come back later.

Yes, we can do that because if you see in the borrowings in the noncurrent financial liabilities, it has decreased from INR 378 crores to this INR 72 crores, right? And even in the short-term borrowings, if we were there in current liabilities, short-term borrowings have just stayed in the similar range. But in the presentation, the debt is still showing at a -- like there is no significant debt reduction in the presentation on a stand-alone as well as on a consol basis. So yes, that was my question. So just basically, have we reduced the debt drastically in this past quarter? Or is it just that?

So this are -- in the presentation, we are talking of only external debt. On the balance sheet, we have debt, which is including associates also. From that point of view, there is a reduction in the associates outstanding in the last quarter.

Correct so still. Sorry, but I'm not able to understand why there is this huge difference in the borrowing amount. But in the presentation, the stand-alone debt and consol debt is kind of the same from quarter-on-quarter. Like in December '24, I'm seeing the total debt as INR 6,847 crores, the March quarter is still showing INR 6,600 crore, right?

[indiscernible] So from that percentage. Even the consolidate of what's happening is one of the assets which was hideout investment is now moved on to asset head for sale. So from that perspective, also the debt number we can have offline detailing of the [indiscernible]

No worries. Yes. And the second question is on the line of government spending. Do we foresee given the recent changes in the geopolitical issues; the government spending will be diverted from infrastructure to something else? And how are we placed in the upcoming orders? If you can just give a light on that?

Yes. If you see last quarter, government -- is moving very slowly as far as NHAI is concerned. But there is nothing related to funding as such. What we see in the next few quarters, we'll see a good amount of bidding happening.

Understood. And usually, sir, sorry, but when do we get the new orders like it's in Q1, Q2? Or is it spread equally throughout the year?

So Q1, Q2 may be muted. We'll get INR 2,000 crores to INR 3,000 crores and post Q3, Q4 will be really good inflow of order books.

Understood. And just last bit on the execution side. Are we seeing any execution slowdowns? Do we expect similar growth in the top line as last year? Or do we see a drastic change? Because along with that, since the toll prices have increased, so we can expect a significant growth?

Growth-wise, coming here, we don't see more than 10% as Q1, Q2 will be still slow because whatever orders we have bagged will really pick up in Q3, Q4. There are a lot of initial orders in starting those works like land acquisition, forest clearances and all this. So they really will pick up post monsoon. Out of the 7 projects, only 3 have really started. 4 will start only in Q3. So, Q3, Q4 will be very good. Q1, Q2 still will have some orders.

[Operator Instructions] The next question comes from the line of Yashovardhan Banka from Asset Tiger.

Just wanted to understand what will be your interest cost and savings from reduction in the borrowings?

Interest cost, we are typically at the range of 9% and 9.5% and what was the other question?

So we'll be expecting savings in interest since we reduced our borrowings.

All the external debt borrowing continues to remain same for 31st March '25. '25, '26, we expect the borrowings to go down and effectively interest cost will go down, keeping in mind monetization of assets on both BOT as well as HAM side. This cost should substantially go down in Q3, Q4. Your Q2 is the period when we expect both the BOT and large batches of HAM projects should get monetized.

So just [indiscernible] with a complete clarity on the borrowings. As in the borrowings reduced from INR 3,700 crores to INR 700 crores, right? So that's a reduction of around INR 3,000 crores. So, we'll be having -- we'll be expecting some interest cost savings moving on this quarter, right? That's what I'm trying to understand.

Yes. I'm just trying to get hold of this INR 3,000 crores number which you are talking about?

It's on page number -- it's the consolidated balance sheet on Page 11of our IP , Investor Presentation.

It has not fallen down [indiscernible] If you see the presentation which has happened, if you see liabilities held for sale, it has gone up from INR 287crores to INR 940 crores and on the borrowing also [indiscernible]. If you see [indiscernible] borrowings and the highlight is INR 840 crores. This is where the change has happened. It's on Page 6 of the presentation. Largely the debt remains similar. It has reduced from INR 7,139 in March '24 to INR 6,631 in March '25.

Got it. And any further plans in reduction of debt?

As I said post monetization substantial reduction is there both due to offloading of the assets where the debt will get hideout from the balance sheet of ABL in the BOT for almost INR 2,000 crores. And in the major 7 HAM, which would be initially scored around at INR 2,000 crores. So, by quarter 2, we expect INR 4,000 crores of debt to go down from the consolidated balance sheet. And whatever excess monetization will happen will reduce the working capital take also.

The next question comes from the line of Vaibhav Shah from JM Financial Limited.

Sir, you mentioned that our revenue guidance for FY '26 would be around 10% growth. So earlier, we guided for 15% growth for FY '26. So, what has led to this cut in the guidance first? And also, what could be the guidance for EBITDA margins and order inflows for FY '26?

So basically, whatever new orders we got, as I explained, was supposed to start in Q1, Q2. Out of this, only 40% has started. 60% is getting shifted to Q3 because of various reasons like land acquisition and sales. So, these are getting delayed started. That is the whole growth for the year is getting affected.

So, FY '25 should be a much better growth in terms of sales from U.S. pick up?

Yes, definitely. All these projects would have been done in full swing and plus new order books, which we bagged this year would also get converted into business.

And sir, guidance on margins and order inflow?

So, on margins, we'll be improving our margins because based on the new order books which should have started, and we should be in the range of 10% plus.

Order inflows?

Order inflows 10,000 to 12,000 for '25, '26. That's what we expect. Still into various projects -- various factors [indiscernible]

And sir, what would be the inflow for FY '25 if we remove the GST portion and what would be the EPC value we got [indiscernible]?

Approximately INR 9,500 crores.

INR 9,500 crores. Okay. And sir, lastly, if you look at the asset held for sale number on the standalone balance sheet, it is around INR 1,198 crores. So, it includes only 5 BOT or what all it includes?

It includes all the 11 HAM projects and 5 BOT projects and 1 Annuity project HAM or BOT...

You're talking about standalone or consolidated?

Standalone.

Standalone there are 4 HAM projects and plus project, which is an annuity project.

Sir, for HAM or BOT?

BOT all this us under consolidated. That is under ECL wing. So, om a standalone we see only 4 HAM projects, plus 1 Annuity project.

So, we were supposed to receive roughly INR 860-odd crores of cash on net after all the payments to SBI Macquarie and all. So that number remains?

Not sure how INR 360 crores arrived at. Typically, what we realize is INR 2,500 crores on the BOT projects and INR 2,400 crores on the HAM project which typically INR 5,000 odd crores of which INR 1,600 crores would go to SBI Macquarie. Balance will be available for -- which include 2 parts, around INR 750 crores and another INR 800 crores will be in '25, '26, '27. So, around INR 2,000 odd crores should be in '25 '26...

We were supposed to pay -- INR 1,535 crores, right to SBI Macquarie?

Yes. INR 1526 crores and we will be acquiring Jaora Nayagaon stake also from there of INR 150 crores.

INR 150 crores. Sir, you mean the entire payment of the INR 1,600 plus crores, it will be done in 2 parts mentioned, in '26 and '27 or entirely '26?

Payment will be done in one stroke the moment we realize pretty strong the BOT or HAM, whichever happens earlier.

So, when do we expect the different process from both the deals from BOT and HAM?

So, the first set of money infusion from the BOT deal should be happening somewhere before -- by 15th of July, that's what our expectations are, 15 July to 31st July. 30th June is our [ last update ], but we are almost done with all the compliances with NHAI and the lenders. So, we would be doing our CP compliance in the first week of June, and then we will draw out the money, whatever time it takes to draw out the money. On the HAM front, we have 5 projects which we expect to complete by the first week of July, which should bring in approximately INR 1,200 crores. And another 2 assets by August, which should be another INR 40 crores.

And remainder of HAM [indiscernible] December?

Remainder of HAM [indiscernible] at least will happen by December. One assets will happen in '26-'27.

Belgaum Khanapur which will happen in most April '26.

Okay. And sir lastly, the BOT will be payment entirely on 15 July, or the balance part will come later?

It [indiscernible] to 2. Approximately INR 1,700 crores would come by 15 July and INR 700 crores would come based on extension of traffic for the 3 projects under Khanapur, Belgaum and [indiscernible] which we expect by in -- around '26-'27 transition.

That amount will come in FY '27?

'26, '27, yes.

The next question comes from the line of Jainam Jain from ICICI Securities.

Sir, my first question is what is the order pipeline which we are seeing currently for railway and power.

So, railway and power, we expect around INR 2,000 crores. And roads, we expect around INR 7,000 to INR 8,000 crores. And there are other projects like water and buildings, and all. There, we expect another INR 2,000. And so INR 12,000 is what is our target, yes.

Okay. And sir, how are you seeing things improve on the NHAI bidding side in terms of intense competition and corporate margin?

So, NHAI competition remains. Rather, it is growing day by day. So we are now focusing on specialized structures, some specialized jobs in NHAI or mortgage and state-level works at all other segments.

Okay, sir. And so what is the sort of growth that levels that we are seeing by the end of FY '26 on a standalone basis?

Based on monetization, our debt level should be substantially low, below the normal debt of [indiscernible]. So it could be at surplus too, but we could have certain project vendor considerations also on the solar front. So all said and done, debt should be substantially reduced post monetization.

Yes. So, is there any ballpark number?

So as I said, around INR 200 crores, INR 300 crores will be a general working capital loan, which will be existing [indiscernible].

[Operator Instructions] The next question comes from the line of Bhavin from SBI Mutual Funds.

Pardon me for the repetition. I actually got disconnected in between. What I was looking for is the timelines for cash flow received for the HAM project. I mean, what is in '26, what would be in '27, and similarly for the BOT projects?

So, for both the BOT, approximately INR 1,300 crores, and for the [indiscernible] HAM, approximately INR 1,500 crores, would be happening by Q2 end, before Q2 end, which should be having cash flow of this amount. Balance on the HAM projects would be happening by Q4, between Q3 and Q4, except for 1 project that's approximately INR 1,150 crores of the last couple of 3 projects. And in '26, '27, we'll have a balance payment of the BOT project of INR 750 crores.

Okay. So this year is where we should get a net flow receipt of about INR 1,500 odd crores considering the payment that should be done to the SBI Macquire. Would that -- is that like a fair assessment?

Yes, fair assessment.

The second question is if you could help us understand on the working capital side, given the projects that are there in the order book, and we have seen increase in the working capital over the last 4, 5 quarters, how should one see the trajectory given the stage of execution where these projects are?

So these projects, [indiscernible] power and the road project. Power projects our longer working capital cycle and which was back in FY'24, FY'25. So these are typically having larger working capital. So that trend of working capital cycle, at least [indiscernible] BOT on a standalone working capital basis, at a single strength, subject to monetization. So otherwise, these levels will continue for '25, '26.

Sure. Sir, the INR 1,000-odd crore working capital debt, which has been there, in your assessment, given the 10% growth in the execution you are anticipating, would that be higher, lower, or similar?

It should be similar. In this, INR 1,000 crore we should be able to manage for FY '25, '26.

Great. And in your assessment, where do you see the trajectory of the margin given the mix that you already have?

So as indicated, we will for '25, '26, we should be ending up with approximately the range of 10%, 10.5% EBITDA margin.

Okay. So we should be seeing positive cash flow from operations on the standalone entity. Leave aside the asset monetization that we are anticipating.

Yes, definitely. I mean, keeping in mind the '25 operating cycle being negative, well, time is short, for '25, '26 will be a positive one.

Okay. In that case, is there a thought process of any one-time dividend or buyback given the large cash flow that we should be seeing towards the end of the fiscal year?

So that definitely leads in good visibility. I mean, I think cash on the balance sheet will be better utilized by sharing it with investors and for newer businesses.

The next question comes from the line of Vasudev from Nuvama Wealth Management.

Yes. So, sir, in your previous question, you mentioned that there are [indiscernible] Chennai project also in held for sale. So, can you give some details like where are we in the process of monetization of this asset, and also anything on Jaora Nayagaon?

So on both these Chennai and Jaora Nayagaon, we had a process of sales calculated in the past year but could not [indiscernible] due to certain restrictions on the transfer of shares, which has been addressed in Chennai order already. And in Jaora Nayagaon history, approaching the government to get permission of transfer shift. On the Chennai order, we have -- already scouting for investors who previously were interested and new investors who are good to look at on this project. So we expect that in a year's time, we should get an offer for such projects.

Okay, sir. And sir, can you tell me the pending equity request to be introduced in the HAM projects?

So in the HAM project, so presently, we have approximately INR 367 crores of equity pending, which includes INR 225 crores of equity for our last [indiscernible] project, which we have won, where FCG is due anytime.

Okay. And so how much are we planning to use in FY '26, '27 and '28?

In FY '25, '26, we expect use INR 250 crores and balance INR 112 in FY '25, '26.

Okay. And sir, for this INR 12,000 crores of order intake that we are planning for FY '26, what is the kind of bid pipeline that we are looking at? And if you can give some breakup between different segments?

Bid pipeline, if you see of [ RTH MSA ] they will be around INR 75,000 to INR 1 lakh crore. And if you see railways, it's around INR 25,000 crores to INR 30,000 crores of bid pipeline. Power is another sector where a lot of investments are coming in that should up around INR 10,000 crores to INR 15,000 crores. Railways is another segment. It's very difficult to gauge, but they intermittently come up with good order. There are other sectors where we look at is bell division, water, and sewerage. So, overall we are trying to see that INR 7,000 crore to INR 8,000 crores of which INR 2,000 to INR 3,000 crores is on railways and balance to other sectors.

Okay. And sir, what is the CapEx that we did in Q4 FY and the target for FY'26?

Target, we have already told. Around 10% growth this year.

Sir, CapEx target.

CapEx will be around INR 200 crores with all segments.

The next question comes from the line of Parikshit Gupta from Fair Value Capital.

I want to ask about the monetization again. And sorry for the repetition. I just wanted to make sure I have it super clear. So, about the BOT project, is it not correct that we are getting an enterprise value of INR 5,700 crores, out of which almost INR 3,200 crores would directly go into debt, and the rest INR 2,500 crores that we are talking about will be equity received by Ashoka?

That is true. That is true.

So I mean, considering -- sorry for interrupting, but considering this number along with the HAM projects of INR 23 crores, INR 24 crores, the total amount comes to around INR 8,000-odd crores. And even after considering the SBI Macquarie stake purchase, which is INR 1,526 crores and plus INR 150 crores of the Jaora road, the net debt levels, considering the cash in hand right now on a consol level, along with no excess, no other equity infusion comes to be around 0. Is that correct in my understanding?

No, no. But the debt which you're talking about would be -- would go along with the SPVs with the BOT SPVs. So the consideration which you're getting of INR 2,500 crores is net of all debt. So, when we're talking of, when we are spoken of approximately INR 3,000 odd crores debt on the 5 BOT projects, today it is INR 1,945 crores plus NHAI debt of around INR 1,000 crores. Totally, INR 2,900 crores of debt which will go along with SPV's to the new buyers. So that's not a payment which I have to make. It will go around. What I'll get this INR 2,500 crores net, which will be split into INR 1,700 crores in '25, '26, and INR 700-odd crores in '26, '27. It itself will fetch me as you said INR 2,500 crores. Again what you said was INR 2,400 crores. So we are total of INR 4,900 crores of total equity consideration of which INR 1,600 crores would go into [indiscernible] SBI Macquarie loan. So, that is what is net-net available at the end of '26, '27, approximately [indiscernible] crores and everything. So, INR 4,900 crores minus INR 1,600 crores minus [indiscernible] would leave us with INR 3,200 crores of net cash.

Okay. Just one follow-up on this. The INR 2,900 crores debt with BOT, isn't that currently sitting on the balance sheet of Ashoka Buildcon as a consol?

No, no, no. That is sitting on consol yes, but it is at the SPV level.

Okay. I will probably take this up offline. Just one more question. Is there any strict hard deadline to the SBI Macquarie sale? Because I believe earlier in FY '22 quarter 3, there was also again the same plan of selling the BOT projects, but it did not go through. And at that time, the SBI Macquarie exit was around INR 1,200 crores of value, which has gone up now. So in case by chance this sale of HAM and BOT projects are not executed by the end of June as we stipulated June or July, is Macquarie -- SBI Macquarie deal also stated to maybe again push forward?

So definitely, the Macquarie deal is a consequence of the sale proceeds. From that perspective, the sale is consequential. But from an amount perspective, it will be a bilateral discussion if there's any change. As of date, this remains.

And is there any hard deadline to the SBI Macquarie deal? For example, they're telling you if we are able to pay INR 1,526 crore by end of July or end of August, then this deal stands. Otherwise, we will have to reevaluate.

I believe most of all the monetization happening does not - the question doesn't arise. I'm sure that this deal will go through by July, definitely, deal will get paid off.

I mean a Six Sigma event, 0.01% possibility.

It will be mutually discussed. Definitely, we are a partner with us. So we'll mutually decide what is the next course of action. But I'm sure they are also looking out for [indiscernible].

So there is no hard deadlines here. It's all understood because of the monetization, the cash flows and then finally being able to execute the asset purchase.

Right.

The next question comes from the line of Vaibhav Shah from JM Financial.

Sir, my question has been answered.

The next question comes from the line of Hardik Gandhi from HPMG Shares and Securities.

Just wanted some clarification. I know this was discussed. And now I understand why the borrowing levels are showing less because we've shifted our borrowings from the borrowing tab to the liabilities held for sale. Is that correct?

Yes.

So how much of this -- are we expecting to reduce by next year of INR 9,400 crores, which is showing in liabilities held for sale?

So by the end of next year, March '26, we expect approximately INR 4,500 crores of debt to go out of the balance sheet from approximately INR 5,000-odd crores -- INR 5,200-odd crores.

And have we considered the -- new debt which we will take for the new orders or upcoming projects and everything on that level? Or is it just a stand-alone calculation?

So it is that with the current estimate of turnover and the requirement of capital cycle remaining similar, the debt will remain the same, will not go up. And if the monetization happen it would definitely go down.

Understood. So, just coming from a different angle. So, considering we are expecting the debt will remain the same, but on the basis of this that we'll have a INR 5,000 crore reduction. So do you anticipate a reduction in the finance cost to the span of INR 400 crores to INR 450 crore given that we are borrowing at 9.5%? So, do we expect a reduction in the borrowing cost? So the finance cost to go down by INR 400 crores next year?

9.5% is the cost of borrowing at the stand-alone level for the working capital debt, which will typically remain. So on a debt of approximately INR 1,000-odd crores, this is what number will finally transpire plus a couple of more projects like [indiscernible] Khanapur, which will continue in the balance sheet up to '26, '27. So it's various debt which will come up. But definitely, the interest cost in '26-'27 should substantially go down, including '25, '26.

Okay. Understood. So if I were to assume on a consol basis, what would be our cost of borrowing then, like not on a stand-alone, but just on a consol basis at least for this INR 9,400 crores, which is held for sale.

On the stand-alone level, this would be in the range of 8% -- 8.5%.

On a consol level, yes, yes. So that's what I'm saying. So if we are expecting to reduce our INR 5,000 crore debt by next - let's be conservative and say INR 4,000 crores and with the 8.5%, we expect our finance cost to go down by roughly on a ballpark number of INR 300 crores. Would that be a correct assumption?

Yes.

[Operator Instructions] The next question comes from the line. Ladies and gentlemen, as there are no further questions, I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for the closing remarks.

We thank everybody for joining this conference call for the update on the Q4 and FY '25 numbers. If there any follow-up questions are there, we are also available on my personal number, which is available on the presentation as well as our Investor Relations team. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you, everyone.

Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Nirmal Bang Equities Private Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.

Thank you.