Assura Limited (AGR) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary
May 21, 2020
Earnings Call Speaker Segments
Jonathan Murphy
executiveGood morning. I'd like to start by saying how much we appreciate you taking the time to dial in this morning, and I do hope that you and your families are all well. For this morning's presentation, I will introduce the highlights of the year before Jayne covers the financial performance. I will then return with the operational update before introducing our new social impact strategy. But I want first to give you some sense of how we have reconfigured our ways of working to continue operating as effectively as possible and to ensure the health and well-being of our team. We closed the office before the lockdown commenced, and everyone has been working from home since. For many, this has been a challenging time, and we have been supporting our team, both physically and mentally, where we can. We have all played our part in the creation of a plethora of new workspaces and the creative use of domestic nooks and crannies and carefully selected backdrops. Every day, I am amazed at how the team are responding to these challenges and sustaining as near as possible, business as usual. Their efforts have enabled us to play our part in supporting the NHS through this period. These efforts have been many and varied. Throughout our medical centers, we offered all of our vacant space free of charge to NHS occupiers, modifying the space where required, and we continue to offer essential repairs and maintenance, installing new intercoms for controlling access to buildings. Almost 1/4 of the team signed up as NHS volunteers, and our Head of Legal took the lead in coordinating her advisers to offer free advice to NHS tenants. We were very conscious that as we emerge from this crisis, providing high-quality, new space for primary care would be even more important. And so we focused on supporting our construction partners to continue working but only where it was safe to do so. Six of our sites did close, but we are now looking to reopen them with modified working practices. To support our partners as they implemented these changes, we moved to fortnightly payments to help their cash flow. Inevitably, there will be some delays to completion time lines, though the disruption has been thankfully modest. These prompt actions, the flexibility of the team and their efforts to sustain our operations have enabled us to achieve a strong set of results, putting us in a very fortunate position at this time. Our ability to create outstanding spaces for health services is built on the reliability and resilience of our cash flows. These are underpinned by long-term government-funded income and our financial strength. We have maintained our normal patterns of rent collection over recent months, which has enabled us to continue our dividends and to support a further uplift, as Jayne will cover later. The security and longevity of our cash flows also underpinned our asset values at the year-end with a 1% increase in our EPRA NAV. These values reflected the unique portfolio of 576 properties, which has been assembled over the past 17 years. We carefully review every asset for opportunities to enhance its lifetime cash flows and impact on the community. The asset enhancement activity completed by the team included 296 rent reviews, 32 lease regears and 15 new tenancies for our vacant space as well as resilient cash flows and robust asset values. We have also secured new opportunities for growth, completing GBP 134 million of property additions in the year. Our market-leading development team was further strengthened in May last year when we acquired GPI. Their experienced team and strong pipeline were a welcome addition, helping us deliver 4 schemes in the year and a further 15 on-site at the year-end. We are well positioned to sustain this growth as we enter the new financial year with an immediate pipeline of GBP 77 million of developments, GBP 67 million of acquisitions and GBP 17 million of asset enhancement projects. To fund these plans, we completed last month, a 10% equity placing for GBP 185 million, which moves our LTV to 38%. Our purpose, values and culture align us with the NHS, and our commitment to sustainability and social impact underpins everything we do. The importance of this has only been magnified during these challenging times, but it has been core to the way we do business for 17 years. The importance of this is something I will come back to later. Our market has highly attractive sector characteristics. Firstly, our market is built on its long leases and low default risk from NHS funding. Secondly, this market is experiencing strong demand growth after years of underinvestment. And the third key characteristic is the strong risk-adjusted returns that our sector delivers. Taken together, these provide the foundation for predictable and low volatility returns. Assura's portfolio of 576 medical centers is now valued at GBP 2.1 billion, evaluation built on the resilience of the underlying income with 85% NHS funded and contracted rent roll of GBP 1.43 billion. As well as building a portfolio, we have also developed a unique brand and reputation nurtured through long-term, trusted relationships with the NHS and its GPs. These relationships are key to securing our growth opportunities. I would now like to hand over to Jayne to cover our financial performance in the year. Jayne?
Jayne Cottam
executiveThank you, Jonathan. Good morning, everybody. And to echo what Jonathan has said, thank you for joining us today. As you would expect, the current pandemic has affected our business. However, it has been limited to the extent that we have had the good fortune still to receive over 98% of our rental income so far with only 0.1% requiring a payment holiday. In addition, a small proportion of our other tenants have taken a rent deferral. And so with this in mind, let me take you through our performance for the last 12 months and then look forward to our current activity and our pipeline. The last year has seen us continue our growth, but with a more balanced emphasis between our acquisition, development pipeline and our asset enhancement initiatives. We acquired and successfully integrated the GPI business, accessed the debt capital markets and continued to experience open market rental growth. The acquisition of GPI has resulted in further improvement in our development pipeline. The result is that a number of new schemes are now on site. We secured property additions in the year of GBP 134 million, giving us net rental income growth of 9% to GBP 103.7 million. Our EPRA earnings increased by GBP 3.7 million to GBP 67.5 million, and our EPRA earnings per share for the year has increased by 4% to 2.8p per share. We passed this on to our shareholders through a growth of 4% in the dividend payments year-on-year. Our portfolio value grew to just over GBP 2.1 billion, and our net initial yield has reduced by 6 basis points to 4.68%. In July, we raised GBP 107 million through a private placement with GBP 60 million of the proceeds being deferred and drawn in October. Our loan-to-value at the 31st of March had risen to 38%. However, the subsequent successful equity placing meant that early April, this had fallen to 30% on a pro forma basis. Our next quarterly dividend payment is due to be paid in July. We are pleased to announce a dividend increase of 1.9%. This is in line with our objective to provide a progressive dividend for our shareholders. This brings the quarterly dividend payment to 0.71p per share. Now moving on to other financial metrics. We have delivered growth in our annualized rent roll of 6% to GBP 108.9 million. Our continued focus on asset enhancement has meant that our weighted average unexpired lease length has increased during the second half to 11.7 years. This underpins the security and longevity of our cash flows, as 85% of our rental income is derived from the NHS and its GPs. Our rental growth is 1.79% with open market rent reviews continuing to nudge a little higher at 1.2%. Our net rental income increased by GBP 8.5 million in the year. The acquisition of GPI, continued expansion of our development team and dedicated asset enhancement support has seen our admin costs increase by GBP 1.1 million, reflecting the fact that we expense rather than capitalize these costs. Despite the increasing costs, our EPRA cost ratio has remained steady at 12.6% and continues to be one of the lowest in the sector. If we had chosen to capitalize our development team costs, this ratio would be closer to 11%. Our EPRA net asset value per share increased by 0.6p from 53.3p to 53.9p per share. Our earnings growth of 2.8p was passed on to shareholders in dividends. Capital growth through valuation uplifts and profitability on development schemes added 0.6p per share. Our investment property portfolio increased by GBP 160 million in the year and is a mixture of property additions, some disposals and modest portfolio valuation growth, which improved our net initial yield by 6 basis points. We disposed of 19 assets in the year for GBP 20 million. We also have assets held for sale at the year-end, consisting of a small portfolio of 17 assets for GBP 20 million. This transaction has recently completed. Over the last 5 years, our gross rental income has seen a 16% compound annual growth rate from GBP 50.1 million in 2015 to GBP 103.7 million this year. The charts demonstrate our focus on growing the business alongside our earnings and delivering dividend growth to our supportive shareholders. One of our key objectives is to continue to maintain and grow our contracted rental income alongside our weighted average unexpired lease term. We have added GBP 170 million to our contracted rental income in the year, and this now stands at over GBP 1.4 billion. We manage these long-term cash flows through our acquisitions, developments and asset enhancements. The hard work and dedication of all our property team has enabled us to extend, renew or regear a number of leases and is making a strong contribution to maintaining the lease term. The asset enhancement work adds value to the portfolio and to the long-term income of our business, enabling us to increase our WAULT in the second half to 11.7 years. Our gross debt was GBP 847 million, and our weighted average interest rate has fallen from 3.24% to 3.03%. Our credit rating was reaffirmed, and we secured further long-term debt at a blended rate of 2.3% for 10- and 15-year notes. At the year-end, we had GBP 220 million of headroom on our revolving credit facility with a loan-to-value of 38%. However, following the equity placing at the beginning of April, we have our full GBP 300 million facility available and a loan-to-value of 30% with headroom of GBP 360 million until we reach our 40% loan-to-value. Our debt maturity is now 6.8 years. However, since the year-end, we have amended and extended our revolving credit facility until November 2024 with the continued support of our partner banks. We have a strong pipeline of opportunities to take us through the next 12 months and beyond. Our development pipeline is now an impressive GBP 357 million with 67 schemes across the country. The focus on our asset enhancement has seen 32 regears this year compared to 6 in the prior year. We have 38 in our pipeline alongside 22 capital projects. Our focus is to deliver high-quality buildings, extensions and upgrades, incorporating the latest innovation and sustainability. The acquisition pipeline of GBP 67 million is expected to complete within the first 3 to 6 months. And as mentioned, we have already disposed of a small portfolio of assets this month for GBP 20 million. This chart highlights the impact of our activity pipelines on our long-term rent roll. It represents everything we have in our sites at this point in time and shows that our rent roll will increase to just under GBP 135 million upon completion. The strength of our development pipeline, both our immediate and extended pipeline, will add around GBP 17 million to our rent roll over a number of years. Our acquisition pipeline will add GBP 4 million in the near term, and approximately GBP 5 million will come from our asset enhancement work and rental growth. I present these numbers this year in a very different environment to previously. However, this is a good set of results for the year, demonstrating our ability to deliver our development pipeline, invest in high-quality assets, improve our portfolio and manage our costs, whilst increasing our return to shareholders. I'll now hand you back to Jonathan.
Jonathan Murphy
executiveThank you, Jayne. I would now like to explore our growth areas in a little more detail, starting with development. Following the integration of the team from GPI, we have continued to build our development pipeline, which now stands at more than GBP 350 million. We are on-site at 15 projects with a gross development spend of GBP 81 million. We have an immediate pipeline of GBP 77 million and an extended pipeline of a further GBP 199 million. Looking forward, funding for the NHS and the demands placed on primary care are likely only to increase. This presents an opportunity for us to further our ambition in developing the next generation of medical centers. We've completed 28 acquisitions in the year for a total consideration of GBP 119 million. Our investment team continues to leverage the relationships we have with existing tenants to identify new opportunities. They also continue to refine their use of our bespoke database and to enhance and improve it. We constantly review our portfolio and identify sites with lower growth potential, which we market for disposal. We disposed of 19 properties for GBP 20.1 million during the year and a further GBP 20 million this month. Both portfolios were sold to new entrants in the sector, and so this is both good capital discipline and is supportive of greater market liquidity. Asset enhancement is a core part of our growth strategy, and we have been allocating more resources in this area. We completed 32 lease regears during the year and have a further 38 with terms agreed and due for completion in the next 6 months. On capital enhancements, we have created a dedicated team and recruited 2 new surveyors to focus solely on this area. The team have now built a pipeline of 22 projects for GBP 17 million and are reviewing further opportunities. The picture shown here is Pont Newydd, one of the team's successful projects this year. This building serves 10,000 patients, and to support its further growth, we invested GBP 400,000 to reconfigure the existing space to fit out some vacant space and as a result, secured a new 20-year lease. Rent reviews have also been a key focus, and we have achieved 1.8% growth during the year. 70% of our reviews are linked to open market rents, where growth was 1.2%, as the increased activity in developments creates evidence that supports rental growth. Over recent months, many property sectors and values have been impacted by the disruption to rent collection and tenant liability. The fundamentals of our sector remain constant and have enabled us to record a modest valuation gain with an annual movement of 6 basis points in our net initial yield to 4.68%. Our market remains active with transactions completing throughout the past 3 months. We continue to see opportunities, and we'll retain our selective approach to adding further to our portfolio. I would now like to move away from our results for a moment to talk to you in more detail about the importance of social impact and the recent formalization of our commitment to it. 8 years ago in Warrington, I met the late Graham Roberts as he tried to persuade me to join him at Assura. He outlined the fantastic business model, the highly attractive market, the opportunities for growth and the caliber of the team. But there was one thing that stood out, both for Graham and for myself. It was the positive social impact Assura could have through its work, how the right buildings could provide an enlightening workplace, bringing more services together and providing better care for patients. In short, Assura could make a difference. Since then, I've been privileged to witness at firsthand, the dedication, ingenuity and passion of our team as their actions make this difference day in, day out. These actions could be a prompt response to a query from a tenant, organizing a new extension, delivering best-in-class design through our architects or building the U.K.'s first 0 carbon medical center. Each action may be small, but cumulatively, they make a real difference. These elements have been deeply ingrained in the way we do business. For the past 2 years, I have been considering how we could bring these elements together to formally embed them in our business to magnify their impact and to make us an even better partner to the NHS. This has led us to our ambitious 6x6 plan, which will make Assura the U.K.'s leading property business for social impact. As a starting point in this plan, we have already put into operation the Assura Community Fund, which will support charities and voluntary organizations working across the U.K. to support healthier communities. We have listed here some of the activities we have already supported, such as a community bakery for young adults with learning difficulties and a community gardening scheme. We are aware that we have a bold and ambitious goal. And to make it a reality, our plans must be clear, our targets must be measurable, and we must rigorously track our delivery at every stage. With our 6x6 plan, we intend to reach 6 million people in 6 years, and we have given ourselves 6 pledges to achieve this by 2026. I had intended to give you much more detail about our plans. However, with the limitations of our remote presentation, the opportunity is not ideal. And therefore, we'll look forward to talking to you in more detail about these plans in the future. In summary, Assura has delivered a strong set of results that have highlighted the resilience of our cash flows and asset values, while continuing to deliver solid growth. We're a leader in our sector. We have very strong relationships with GPs, understand their needs and have a team with great experience that can navigate the complex medical and primary care real estate requirements. We ended the year with a strong pipeline of future opportunities, and thanks to the completion of the recent equity raise, we further reinforced our financial strength and our capacity to deliver these plans. As the scale and nature of these evolving requirements become clearer, we are ideally placed to support the needs of the NHS and to deliver on our ambitious plans for social impact. Despite the current level of uncertainty, I will continue to look to the future with confidence. Now that concludes this morning's presentation. Thank you very much for listening, and we'll now move to questions.
Jonathan Murphy
executiveSo in terms of questions, I'll just read out the question in the first instance, and then I'll respond so everyone is aware of each one. The first question we've received is from Mike Foster from Hardman and it is, are you seeing any geographical bias in new developments planned across the markets? Mike, good question. So in terms of activity, it's fair to say that we're seeing this as quite broadly based. There are always certain hotspots and certain cold spots, in particular, London tends not to have that higher level of activity. We have got a couple of sites we're working on there, but it tends to be a little bit less. But other than that, it's fairly broadly based. If you have a look at the detail in the presentation pack, we've got a slide, Slide 49 or 4.6, which is its heading, that covers in some detail the -- where our current pipeline is. And you can see there that it is a -- it's very broadly based with a good spread of opportunities across England. You probably will notice that the map stops at England. It doesn't go up to Scotland. That's because Scotland has adopted a more PFI-type structure, which is not something that we get involved with. So hopefully, that covers that one. [ Kenneth Mitchell ] from Barclays. Now that you have raised equity, can you give us an update on your plans for deploying that capital? In an ideal world, how would you split between development acquisitions and standing acquisitions? So on that one, I'll just pass to Jayne just to provide you a little bit more detail. Jayne?
Jayne Cottam
executiveThanks, Jonathan. Just to address the first point. In terms of the equity raise, we raised GBP 185 million in April. For deploying that capital, GBP 67 million is for standing acquisitions, so we expect to complete that in the next 3 to 6 months. We have 15 schemes on-site for GBP 81 million. So those will be completing, we expect, over the next 12 months. And then we have GBP 77 million for our immediate pipeline. This is where we expect to be on-site, spade in the ground within the next 12 months. And then we have just over GBP 20 million in capital projects to enhance existing assets by way of physical extensions and some upgrades to buildings. And those will be happening over the next 12 to 24 months. In an ideal world, would -- how would we like the split? I think I mentioned in the presentation that we seem to be getting more of a balance between acquisitions and developments. And I think that works very well for us. We've been largely acquisition-led, but as we've seen the development pipeline grow, we're getting a bit more of an equal balance between the 2. And then added on to that all of the asset enhancement activity, we see as very positive going forward.
Jonathan Murphy
executiveGreat. Thanks, Jayne. And a follow-up question from [ Kenneth ] which is, what is your outlook for further portfolio valuation on the short and medium term? So it's always a tricky one this. We get this -- asked this pretty much at every presentation. So crystal ball time, what do we see happening in the market. And I always -- forgive me, but I always slightly duck the question and don't give you a precise forecast. But what I would say is to echo probably what I said at the last presentation, which is, despite what's going on in the wider world and the uncertainty across the market, our market remains very stable. So 6 basis points movement in the year, continuing cash collection, continuing activity, strong underlying drivers. So it's actually quite hard for me to see any logical reason for our values to go down in the short term. And with the movements on builds, you could also perhaps make a case that the relative value of our assets is only going up. But I think it's equally -- it's a very stable market. So I would caution anyone from predicting any sort of dramatic movements in the market, either up or down, but we remain -- it remains very positive. I should just add to that, just to give you some sense of comfort on the market. A lot of markets have had concerns around valuations at the March quarter to date. Our valuations actually went up in March. And I think it's really important to note that we saw good levels of activity, both from ourselves and from other players in the sector in March, April and May. So this is not -- we have -- the market has continued to perform in a normal way over the past few months, and I think that should hopefully give you some reassurance about the outlook for values. Next one, question is from Andrew Parsons from Resolution. Could you elaborate on rent review increases? What are the trends? And could you give us some more detail? So in terms of rent reviews, clearly, we provided the detail in the pack at 1.8% for the year. Open market reviews are at 1.2%, that's up slightly from 1.15%. So a continuing positive trend. It is moving relatively slowly, it's fair to say, but it is moving in a positive direction. We're continuing to see more developments coming through. That is providing further points of evidence, and we see no downward pressure on costs in the short term. So it remains a positive view. It is moving towards inflation, perhaps more slowly than we would like, but certainly, definitely in the right direction. The other thing I would flag is we made a particular effort to try and clear some of the backlog this year. So we're having increased the number of reviews that we've settled. So that has a little bit of a drag effect, but it's good to see that we're sort of getting through those reviews. Next question is also from Resolution, but from Max. Can you please clarify the rent you have received in January to March and March to June? Can you also clarify the rent relief you have given to tenants? So I'll just pass over to Jayne to cover off on the rent collection.
Jayne Cottam
executiveThanks, Jonathan. Max, so in terms of January to March, we received all rents in full in the ordinary course. And from March to June, we have so far collected over 98% of our rent, which again is just ordinary course. We have given a couple of rental holidays. It's less, it's 0.1% of our rent roll. So in a few of our buildings, we will have some things like community cafes and things like that. So obviously, we want to help those tenants at this current time. So we've granted a few rental holidays. But it's very, very small, and it's not material.
Jonathan Murphy
executiveThanks, Jayne. So next question is from Andrew Gill from Jefferies. With interest rates moving lower, will the expensive legacy debt in the sector make acquisitions more difficult if interest rates remain lower for longer? And would property yields have to move lower to compensate? That's a good question, Andrew. Yes, you're absolutely right that our sector is quite unusual, and that a lot of legacy owners have long-term fixed rate debt with Aviva. And the way that works is when we acquire those assets, we redeem that debt in full at the point of acquisition, and we always deduct the cost of that from the price that we're willing to pay because that's a real cost to us. And it can often be a barrier to deals. You're absolutely right. Sometimes deals we can agree at property value. But when the vendor knocks off the redemption penalty, it makes it unattractive for them, and they don't wish to proceed. So will that pressure remain? Yes, absolutely, it will. The -- obviously, the redemption penalties will go up. But I guess the -- we have still been very effective at identifying willing sellers, notwithstanding that, and we would remain optimistic that we would continue to do so. So I think you're right, there might be some short-term pressure, but it doesn't alter the fundamentals and it doesn't undermine the sort of the general trend, which is for doctors to move away from owning their own assets and selling to professional investors, such as ourselves. So we would expect that trend to continue. In terms of the pressure on yields, I guess, if interest rates stay longer -- sorry, stay lower for longer, could there be downward pressure on yields? When you look at the chart that I presented, and it's clear that yields have moved materially, and our valuations have only moved modestly. So if that was a position that was to hold for the medium term, could there be further downward pressure on yields and upward pressure on values? Probably that's a fair position. But obviously, that depends on where those interest rates end up. Next question is from Matthew Saperia from Peel Hunt. Has the operation of your assets during the pandemic highlighted any strengths or weaknesses in terms of design, size, amenities? And do you think primary care facilities will be different as a result? Very interesting question. You're absolutely right that our assets are being used very differently today to how they were being used 6 months ago. So we have -- we've seen a significant move to telephone triage to virtual consultations and more selective physical examinations and a more focus on online. And then when you arrive at the center, if you are coming with COVID-related symptoms then they clearly want to segregate you from non-COVID patients, and so we've implemented physical changes in some of our buildings. We've introduced access controls, that you can't just walk in, there's an intercom, so that people can be controlled. So all of those short-term changes have been put in place very quickly and they are working very effectively. So that's the first thing to say. In terms of what's the long-term impact, I think that's the more interesting question. I think we are going to see, as we develop new centers, I think separate entrances is going to become a requirement, I think, some more flexibility, so that we can section off parts of the building for it to be a secure zone. That's a sort of design feature I think the NHS might ask for in the future. So I think you might see something like that coming through. But in terms of the core requirement for a physical building for you to visit your clinician, now I think that's absolutely not going to change. There is massive excess demand in the system. With the number of appointments, hasn't been able to keep up with that over -- for a number of years. And so I think the use of telephone triage and virtual appointments is an excellent way of helping with some of that demand, but it's not going to undermine the requirement for those physical appointments. And just one of the key things there is currently, most people have to wait a week or 2 weeks for an appointment. So the increased use of virtual could help make that more efficient. And also, the BMA have said that they think the current 10-minute appointment time is too short, and really, they'd like to see that double to 20 minutes. So clearly, the need for physical appointments is going to remain very fundamental. Next question is from Tom Horne from Berenberg. Other than development sites being closed, have you experienced any delays or adverse outcomes in completing acquisitions? More generally, is there any concern in the investment markets in terms of other transactions completing? So yes, of course, there has been disruption. You're absolutely right to highlight that. And our development sites, some of them closed, some of them just have implemented modified working patterns. We're now seeing all of those reopening the -- we're close with revised ways of working. So that's positive to see. In terms of acquisitions, the current situation does provide some challenges. So for example, it's not always possible to undertake a complete physical inspection and survey because of limited access to sites. And we've been tackling that with the use of obviously using what information is available and increased retentions, et cetera. So we're finding a way around that one. In terms of delays, yes, of course, there have been some delays in transactions from an information flow point of view, from a physical, getting out on-site point of view, and we have seen some delays in terms of NHS approvals taking a bit longer. But having said that, we have also seen deals continue to proceed. So we've completed a number of transactions in April. We've also done a number of transactions in May. We completed on a disposal in May to a new entrant, which gives you some confidence on even a new player being willing to transact in our space. So yes, there have been some delays and some disruption. But overall, we're very pleased that it's been quite minimal, and we are seeing further transactions in the sector. So we're positive on the outlook. A further question from Richard Parfect from Seneca, is how are you seeing rental growth? The hiatus of new build a couple of years ago has dragged on, but is this firming up now? And what do you think is a sustainable rate of growth? So quite similar to the previous question on rental growth. In terms of trends, I think we are seeing an increase in the number of developments coming through. You can see that in our pipeline. And we would expect that to cascade down to providing data points and evidence points for further rental growth. So we'd be optimistic that, that trend would continue. So are we confident that the positive trend is going to be sustained? Yes, as far -- yes, we would be confident on that. The rate is always very difficult to be precise, but we are confident that we are developing a positive trend. A question from [ Philippe Roch ] about, does the Board see any threat to the business model from a possible increase in the adoption of remote GP services? Well, I've sort of tackled that one already by talking about future, the future requirement for physical inspections and the excess demand in the system. So I think that's -- that covers that. I guess the only other point to add, of course, is demographics. The most heavy users of GP services are the over 70s. And actually, their adoption of technology is likely to be a little slower. So even if there was a demand from -- a desire from the NHS, I think patient demand would still be quite strong for physical inspections. Just looking at the next question is Colette from Numis. Can you give any color on the yield pickup being achieved on developments and forward fund versus acquisitions? And Colette has also asked a question in terms of rental growth, but I think we've covered that in the previous 2. So in terms of the yield pickup on the developments and forward funds versus acquisitions, this remains a consistent picture. So we have always said that generally, we are targeting 100 basis points pickup on the yield for a development. That's where we manage it ourselves. And we also have arrangements with other developers where we do forward funds. And typically there, the margin can be less, can be down to sort of 25 basis points or lower. And sometimes, we adopt a risk-sharing model with developers where you would expect the pickup to be somewhere in the middle. So those yields all remain similar in those pickups, all remain similar, and we're not seeing -- we don't see any reason for those to move in the short term. Okay. Well, that was the final question that's been submitted online. So all it remains for me to say is just to echo what I said at the start, which is thank you very much for listening. We really appreciate you taking the time. And again, just to say, best wishes to you and your families and hope you're all keeping safe and well. Thank you very much for your time.
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