ASTA Energy Solutions AG ($1AST)

Ladies and gentlemen, good afternoon. My name is Karl Schacke and together with my colleague, Daniela Klauser, the CFO of ASTA, it's a pleasure to welcome you to the first earning webcast as a publicly listed company. ASTA will present its best financial result for the year '25 in the total history of ASTA. Before we turn to the numbers, let me briefly remind you why ASTA is so explicitly well positioned in a highly attractive end market. ASTA operates at the very core of the global energy transition, a market where demand for mission-critical copper solutions continue to accelerate. You may have listened to other earnings call this week of GE Vernova or Siemens Energy, which fundamentally confirm this acceleration. Since '22, our European order backlog has expanded more than sevenfold, providing long-term visibility and a robust foundation for growth. What differentiates ASTA is our technological leadership. Our patented and proprietary solutions position us in a premium niche with high barriers-to-entry, a key reason why industry leaders such as Siemens Energy, Hitachi Energy, GE Vernova and many regional players place their trust in ASTA's capabilities. We also benefit from our circular copper-integration model, with approximately 40% of our copper already sourced from recycled material. Our ongoing investments in additional recycling capabilities and capacities further strengthen supply-chain resilience and reinforce our commitment to sustainability. And with the 6 production sites across Europe, Asia, South America, we combine global reach with local execution, and we executed very well, ensuring reliability, speed, proximity for our global customer base. Since 30th of January, we are listed on the Frankfurt Stock Exchange. It was a successful IPO, multiple-times oversubscribed. We especially thank our Cornerstone Investors, Siemens Energy, BNP Paribas Asset Management, Invesco and WCM who demonstrates the global interest in ASTA. Our mission is Powering the Energy Transition Globally. And that means, again, recycling copper, producing copper cores, enabling power transmission and generation, powering data centers, our industries, powering households and also e-mobility. With 40 -- more than 40 patents and a history of more than 200 years, we are the global technological and quality leader in this niche. We're driving innovation on a high-performance level. We provide copper windings for all electrical infrastructures. Our world is flat and all our products are based on flat copper windings. The first biggest one, far off is the Continuously Transposed Conductor is highlighted with the copper color in the back. The application is medium- and large-power transformers. That's why also our business is strongly driven by the demand of Siemens Energy, Hitachi Energy, GE Vernova and other regional customers. We make them win in the market. But also, for instance, with ANDRITZ AG, the Roebelbars are, let's say, accelerating the demand. Power generators are the application for the Roebelbars. Copper windings are also in traction-transformers for the picking up in the market of the locomotive, and we are ready to go into the market of flat-wire stators and hairpins for electric vehicles. As a niche player where one-lot-size, we demonstrate that we are at the heart of the energy transition. We stabilize, we integrate, we extend all parties, renewables, non-renewables to the grid. We, with our mission-critical copper components, stabilize and secure the energy transition and the transmission of electricity every day. We capitalize on very favorable market conditions. I've never realized and never seen something like this going a super-cycle beyond 2030. And still, our market is structurally undersupplied. We have faced more and more requests and increasing demand of our main and smaller customers worldwide. This was resulting in a sevenfold increase until the end of the year of '25, including also long-term agreements, new ones, old ones. And there's a bundle where we are in negotiation, and we will come out with a new one to, let's say, after our earnings call, after the first quarter with another long-term agreement. This is supporting growth also in our profitability. Pricing power, together with the USPs we have improving profitability leads to a rising cash-conversion. With that said, let's turn us to the full-year results, which underscore the strength in our strategic position and the momentum of ASTA is building upon. Daniela, it's your turn.

Thank you, Karl. Good afternoon also from my side. 2025 was a landmark year for ASTA, a year where our strategic focus and execution -- operational execution clearly paid off. Let me take you through the key highlights. When we look at the group net sales, an increasement of 8.3% compared to last year, but the most important topic, we increased our Net-Value Sales by 16.8%. Let me figure out Net-Value Sales means net sales minus cost-of-material, services, and supplies. This is our operational achievement. This increase of 16.8% growth in Net-Value Sales results in an adjusted EBITDA of EUR 48.6 million, which is a 33.2% of Net-Value Sales. And this land up in a very strong cash generation of 29% of the EBITDA. Besides the operational achievements, the operational result, we also have a solid and resilient balance sheet. This is shown because we have a net-debt-to-EBITDA ratio of around 1.2x and this leads also for our growth in the future that we can go on. Finally, starting preparing the IPO in 2025 for the capital markets. With the successful IPO on the 30th of January in the Prime Standard of the Frankfurt Stock Exchange, ASTA, we reached a major strategic milestone. The IPO significantly strengthened our strategic position, moving ASTA in the position for further growth and improving financial flexibility. But now let's jump into the details. When we're looking at the growth of net sales with 8% from EUR 642.6 million to EUR 695.8 million, this is pure organic growth. But to point out what we have operationally achieved with the Net-Value Sales increasing by EUR 21.1 million in only 1 year, reflecting 17% increase. This 17% increase is 20% efficiency in the production, 20% output related to the output and 60% price increasement. All those price increasement could be achieved because our customers, they want our products, they are willing to pay for the quality, and this is reflected also in the net sales. This increasement brought an adjustment EBITDA of EUR 48.6 million. When we are talking about adjustments, we only talk about the IPO-related costs, which have been accrued in 2025, and this relates to EUR 800,000. With this EUR 48.6 million EBITDA, the EBITDA percentage of Net-Value Sales reflected 33.2%. And this is an increasement of 4.9 percent points compared to last year, 37% increasement compared to last year. When we talk about the EBITDA margin compared to net sales, you also see the development from 5.5% to 7.1%. All these achievements have been possible driven by our pricing power, volume growth, but also by the cost-efficiency gains. I want to repeat our business model because as you can see in our figures, our business model really paid off with the so-called pass-through mechanism where the copper price can be passed through our P&L, which means that we have no exposure, no risk relating to the 80% of the net sales, the so-called back-to-back hedging arrangements, they are really focusing our business model. We always guide that we will achieve an EBITDA margin above 25% and with us 33.2% clearly achieved. On the next page, let me put you through also below the EBITDA with our financial result reducing from EUR 20.9 million to EUR 11.2 million is that we also had higher interest expenses. They have been partly offset by the increase in interest income, and we also had a reduction in the foreign-exchange effects. All these operational achievements also reducing financial result led to a very attractive net income. Net income increased from EUR 4.8 million to EUR 26.7 million when we also add the one-offs than it is in our reports EUR 30.1 million. I want to focus also on the one-off. The one-off is a reversal of a previous impairment loss, which amounts to EUR 3.4 million. On the next page, besides the achievements in the P&L, we also had a lot of improvements in our capital expenditure, but also in the trade working capital. Besides the increasing net sales, we achieved a trade-working capital of EUR 36.1 million. It's -- we have a structural low trade working capital. It's reflecting 5.2% of the total net sales. And compared to the last year, it's on nearly the same level. And when we come to our capital expenditure, you see that we increased it from EUR 22.5 million to EUR 34.5 million, which really focus that we are investing in our asset base, and this is a really excellent in execution because we invested in Bosnia. We completed by end of the year 2025, the building of Bosnia, implementing a new machine there, but we also invested in China, the next step for the Chinese company and also in our recycling capabilities in Brazil and also in India. This execution, to be honest, investing EUR 34.5 million is a very -- we are very proud to achieve this value. On the next page, although we invested EUR 34.5 million, we had a positive free-cash-flow. That means with investing, we were -- it was able for us to have -- to achieve a positive free cash flow. And this means 29% cash conversion is a very attractive one. When we go to the net financial debt, we always guide for a net-debt-to-EBITDA ratio below 2.0x. We already achieved 1.18x. That means this EUR 56.6 million net debt. It's compared to last year an increasement, but the leverage is lower. This net financial debt will improve in the upcoming quarter because with the IPO, there will be a significant further improvement and is expected to have a net-cash-positive in 2026.

Thank you, Daniela. Now let's jump into our positive outlook. We had 3 chapters, mission and business model, key financial figures of the last year. And now the outlook. And the outlook is a very positive outlook, and we started very strong into the year '26. We started already the expansion in India. Then we prove at the moment that our resilient business model shows the best proof because we can expect no material exposure to the current Middle East conflict because material pricing, we have a pass-through mechanism effectively protect the company from raw material price volatility. Also, we have no material downside risk in short-term market fluctuations. the material sourcing part. We also have in all of the local to local areas and execution of the companies, the minimum of a dual-source strategy in all the regions, a clear visibility of more than 2 years with our suppliers. The energy prices, ASTA mitigates the volatility through an active procurement strategy with long-term portfolios purchased in all in the areas, we ensure the stability even here in turbulent energy markets. And this conflict is even on the demand perspective, seen as a positive sign. The demand outlook is even accelerating for electricity demand concerns drive increased grid investments, electrification and reinforcing structural growth in the company's core. So ASTA is very well positioned to navigate also in global macro challenges to capitalize on its strong strategic position. We raised the bar. We raised the bar for '26. As we started well, we had to decide that we want to guide on 3 main key performance indicators. There's the net sales. We will guide also on Net-Value Sales, and we guide on adjusted EBITDA. Let me start with the net sales. Defined on the basis of USD 11,500 per metric tons, we guide that we overachieve EUR 790 million this year of net sales, EUR 790 million. On the Net-Value Sales, we guided for overachieving Net-Value Sales of more than EUR 170 million for the year '26, more than EUR 170 million. And further on, because we are very strong and we are in time, in budget with all the expansions going on, we can also guide on a corridor of adjusted EBITDA, only taking into account non-recurring IPO preparation costs. We guide for a corridor of EUR 55 million to EUR 59 million. Saying this, I think we raised the bar. We are very confident and we are quite sure that we will go on like our prudent approach that we want to overachieve these areas. And now thank you very much. I go to the last slide. So, we are really committed to create sustainable shareholder returns. And summing up with the resilient growth, structural tailwinds now. We have a high visibility. It's a super-cycle beyond 2030. The margin expansion with operational excellence combined will also bring this year a strong cash-flow profile with an asset-light business model with a high cash-conversion. We are ready now to answer questions. So, please, moderator, take over and bring in first maybe verbal questions and then the written one.

[Operator Instructions] The first question comes from the line of Yasmin Steilen from Berenberg.

I have 3, if I may. So, first on the Q4 numbers. So sales came in ahead of the initial guidance, so only down by some 2% year-over-year. Initially, if I remember correctly, Q4 should be impacted partly by the transformation from round-to-flat copper production in Brazil. Has this taken place? And was the impact lower than initially anticipated? Or should we see the impact in the first-half of this year? That's my first question. Then the second question on the sales guidance, sorry that I have to just come back to this again. Although you mentioned already that you aim to overachieve the guidance. I still try to get my head around the numbers. So based on the underlying copper price increase, it's an increase in the ballpark of 15% already. So, I just try to completely understand the -- whether you see a little support from the capacity expansion, if I understood this correctly. So nothing really to support this. However, still the EUR 790 million minimum looks very cautious. So, is there anything I missed in terms of production-setup changes? And then the last one on your adjusted EBITDA guidance, as it does not reflect any IPO-related one-off costs. I expect that most of the cost will be booked against equity. What should be the P&L impact we should expect for '26?

Thank you. Do you want to start all 3 or the first one?

You will start with the first one.

So the runway in the fourth quarter, we optimized, let's say, volume versus earnings. So, if a price increase with the customer is there, we phase out a little bit slower. So it's a moving target. Round wire is going down. So it's correct that the round wire is going down and you've reflected in the right way. I would confirm what you have said. Nevertheless, in this year, it will go on the whole year. So it will be a very smooth effect, not seen so much in the profitability at all round wire.

Connected to the first answer, second question, yes, with the USD 11,500, we increased the base because we see the outlook that already in the first 4 months, there was a high copper price. And with the switch from round wire to the energy, the total output remain the same because it's a switch from lower margin to higher margin. That's the reason for the EUR 790 million. And the third question, there will be a low-single-digit Adjusted EBITDA based on the IPO costs through P&L, and the main portion will go through equity.

The next question comes from Adrian Pehl from ODDO.

And actually, thanks for putting out Net-Value Sales as one of the guidance KPIs. We had a bit of discussion there on this topic recently, very appreciated. But let me first of all, ask a question on actually how the ramp-up will take place in terms of the headcount going into 2026? And how should we think of the staff and personnel buildup in the year? And the second question is a bit related to your working-capital, which has been actually seen quite a bit of a favorable development actually. And so I was wondering what we should think of the trajectory going forward because 2025 was actually incrementally a bit lower on the ratio versus sales than I had in my model. And let's take those 2 probably. And then I have 2 more housekeeping ones, if that's okay for you.

The second one, can you rephrase it again and make it clear? The second, I was not sure what you're heading, what should be the answer.

Yes, sure, sure. All good. Well, I saw that actually 2025 exited on a net-working-capital onto sales ratio of 4.5% roughly, which looks quite low. Actually, there was no real outflow from working capital in my view. And I was just wondering what we should assume going forward given that you're already probably somehow in the process of considering ramping-up the recycling. So, it's working-capital-ratio development is my question actually.

Excellent. Understood. So, I start with the ramp-up and employees, we always have to ramp-up earlier because if -- let's say, we know the churn of machine operators and so forth in all the areas. So, if you take -- let's say, you take 10 people who want to come where we have selected out of 30 of this 1/3, we have a churn, and we always have to feed again the churn to have a fixed -- the fixed group and team ready when the machine is ready. This is depending -- it's a difference between India and Bosnia, let's say, is quite similar. China is a little bit more developed in this area of machining operators. It's easier to jump in lower. So, to give you a real figure is difficult. In Brazil, it's easy to find someone. The labor market is even easier. And in Austria, we are there. So, I would not see any big, let's say, assumptions, which you have to take into consideration in this area. We are smoothly ramping up, and this is already ongoing since 1.5 years.

And regarding your second question, the trade-working-capital, at the year-end, we had a very low trade-working-capital. You know in March with the [indiscernible] we had from the risk side, we decided to -- because we have a very low raw-material stock, we decided that we save our production, that we increase the stocks a little bit. We always guide that we have trade-working-capital below 10%. It will be a little bit higher than the 10% in the upcoming months due to this risk as soon as we see that the transportation ways and all topics regarding the logistics are solved or are back in old style, we will reduce it again. Regarding the recycling, recycling in the first quarter already implemented very well in Brazil. So from this side, it's a little portion for the trade-working-capital, we will figure it out.

Maybe I add also to the first question you had now after thinking about it. We have, at the moment, everywhere a little bit more employees than we need and when we never expand anymore. So you can assume a certain amount is already included in '25, ongoing in '26. There's no big jump, which you have to take into consideration.

Very good. And then 2 questions actually on the CapEx phasing. I saw that the overall budget we have been discussing in line with the IPO process has not changed, which is probably not surprising. But I was just wondering, I had the impression that you are quite happy actually with the ramp-up, not only in Bosnia, but also in China probably. So, should we assume a little bit different phasing, i.e., a bit more CapEx this year and less next year? Or is that totally unchanged? And the second housekeeping, obviously, on an IFRS basis in 2025, you had basically no tax payments on the P&L side of things. So, I was just wondering if it's still valid to run our models with a 25% tax rate going forward?

Your first question, we -- in our prospectus, we said EUR 90 million to EUR 120 million CapEx, this we will stay. It is the EUR 35 million 2025 already implementing Phase #1 in Bosnia, also China. But now the next phase is coming in Europe, also the investments in Brazil extension and the investment in India. So, it will be higher in 2026 and then also in 2027. And we always guided '27, '28, a higher CapEx and '28 only the rest payments for the programs. And concerning the no tax in our P&L, as we have now income history. There is also the topic with the deferred-tax assets. So, we have also capitalized deferred-tax assets on tax-losses carryforward shown in the reporting. That's the reason for a low tax expense in our report, but the 25% for the guidance will come in 2026 onwards.

So coming back on CapEx. So there's nothing where you'd say we are accelerating a bit CapEx spending and the ramp-up in 2026 is all according to plan, as I heard you, right?

Right. Perfect.

Next question comes from Thomas Adolff from ExodusPoint.

I just wanted to ask about your backlog. You signed a contract with Prolec this year. How does that affect your backlog? And how should we think about the discussions you're having with Siemens Energy timeline, et cetera?

Yes, it's a question for the '26 year because it's not included in '25. But it will -- we will go on with the same strategy. In all the regions, we go up to maximum of 50% to 60% of long-term agreements. the contract itself, I'm sorry, I cannot tell anything about the contract itself, but it's a revolving long-term contract, which was also agreed already by the takeover GE Vernova. So, they were mirroring also these negotiations. The contract is the same like we do long-term contracts. There is a take-or-pay contract. So, it's a firm contract they have to pay even if they don't take it. The second is we have an indexation clause, which is passed through all increases of cost with the best-effort clause that we don't to just increase the cost. And furtherly, we have also a margin increasement negotiated in this contract. So it is favorable. So there is a match of a win-win fair negotiated contract for both parties.

Okay. So I guess, for this year, Consensus expected a bit less without some of these new contracts kicking in. So should we think that once these new contracts kick in, the margin will be incrementally better, so i.e., every year, there's a step-up?

As there is the margin for, let's say, some parts of the world for some parts of the portfolio, I cannot generally say if you have 50% with long-term agreements and they are favorable, normally, the regional ones, the smaller ones pay more than the long-term agreements because the long-term agreements, we get the security of a long-term agreement. With, let's say, fair, let's say, development. But the best prices we get from the framework agreements year-by-year, so the additional ones. So what I can say is that with the long-term agreements, bundling them and pushing them, we push on the demand of the regional frameworks. And let's say, the assumption is that we are eager to increase the margin also this year.

The next question comes from the line of Kevin Tracey from Oberon Asset Management.

Just a question on the EBITDA margin guidance, I guess, implied by your 2026 numbers. At the midpoint of your EBITDA guidance, what's implied by that is margins are just up by roughly 60 basis points on a Net-Value Sales basis. Can you explain why the margin improvement wouldn't be better than that? I'm looking at 2025 and the margins were up almost 500 basis points, and you're obviously seeing good growth and good price increases in 2026. So, can you talk about that more, please?

From the margins, we discussed also we have the ramp-up now in Brazil, in India, and also in Bosnia, the second part, and this is also reflected in our guidance 2026. The full ramp-up will be finished 2027, 2028, and this is a little reduction on this topic. Besides, we are going for profitability. We have some change in the portfolio. But nevertheless, we are comfortable to achieve a very attractive EBITDA margin on net-value sales.

And then just to clarify, on your comment that prices have doubled over the past 2 years, does that specifically relate to the prices in the long-term backlog? Or are you talking about the prices in these year-to-year framework agreements that you mentioned earlier?

In average in total. So it's a total, let's say, compound. It's -- we don't say this has doubled and this one has not doubled. All prices have more than doubled.

And can you talk a little bit about where you see prices heading this year? Do you see continued improvements? Or are things leveling off?

I referred to the guidance that we raised the bar for the EBITDA. So that means that we also see some margin progression coming from...

And last one on financial expenses. Can you give us a hint of what those might look like in 2026? And can you also talk about your plans for the balance sheet after the IPO, you should have a net-cash balance. Do you expect to kind of pay down the debt to reduce interest expense? Or what are your plans on that front?

With the use of proceeds, we have 2 pillars in our equity story. The third pillar was reduction of 30% of loans with affiliated companies that has been executed immediately after the IPO. The second is to have the financial flexibility as we now decided which expansion will be done earlier or faster than compared to our budget. Now, we are in the position that we also repay external loans step by step, not influencing a reduction in our growth strategy. That's very important that we really focus on the growth. But from the financial result, we guide that we will have a 1-digit million amount this year because we will also have gains on the existing net cash -- and with the use of -- with the proceeds, we have a net-cash position, which will be reduced with the expansion in the areas.

[Operator Instructions] We have a written question, I'm sorry -- we have a written question asking, can you comment on any further LTAs in the pipeline?

Yes, it's difficult to, let's say, reflect on existing negotiations. I confirm that we have existing negotiations many fold even in, let's say, 3 areas or areas. We're negotiating long-term agreements. And this is with regional locally, let's say, bigger players with 2 or 3 plants. And we also have ongoing negotiations with all 3 of the big ones, let's put it this way. And as we build up the Key Account Management over the last 2.5 years, well, we are well positioned also to leverage one or the other region to each other, giving us a very strong pricing and power in all the divisions. we will come out with, let's say, a finalization. It's only -- at the moment, it's a precondition to, let's say, acceptance of some other organs or Supervisory Board, but there will be information on one in May, a big one. And so far, I can say it will go beyond 2030.

The next question comes from the line of Adrian Pehl from ODDO.

Adrian Pehl from ODDO BHF again, actually. Just very quick one for the sake of clarification, a bit linked to a question that was initially asked by Yasmin on Q4 2025. I mean, in retrospective, it looks like that the quarter was actually still a bit better than expected since we also, besides the exit of the round-wire business, we're discussing a bit the scheduled maintenance that you said you had in Brazil when I understood or remember this correctly. I just want to make sure that this has been concluded by the end of December then? Or are we seeing some kind of spill-over from that, let's say, lower productivity going into Q1 2025? And then just general, I mean, I hear you saying that, obviously, demand is very strong, pricing looks very favorable. Is that also something we should be expecting in Q1? And maybe you could, without mentioning any figures, give us a sense of how your order activity has developed throughout the months of Q1? That would be helpful.

What we can say is that on May 28, we will report on the promising first quarter results, but it is really promising. So we worked in the fourth quarter, you saw already some, let's say, development, and you can assume a certain new development also in the first quarter. This has many fold, let's say, levers behind it. There's -- we had some efficiency and improvements in the production itself, gaining some more output of machines, bottleneck-machines, especially we're working on. Second, when we did, let's say, based on the 9-month, we were still ongoing negotiation for the fourth quarter in some areas. In some areas, we have spot-market very favorable, which are, let's say, amounting to additional really positive contribution relevantly. And so you can expect a similar effect also in the first quarter. Nevertheless, the plants are full now. Austria expanded a little bit. So in what is coming additionally on volume times prices is mainly Europe. With negotiations, which were concluded last year. Now it is set. So the expansion of China was done. So throughout this year, and this led us also to the, let's say, increased EBITDA corridor for this year. So throughout the year, we will try to achieve and go again on a very good right end of the corridor.

All right. And then maintenance has been concluded, right? So no effects affecting your Q1 negatively in any sense. So that's done.

The maintenance always be done. You can count on me. I would never risk output in the next year, not doing any maintenance. We had the same question in the Supervisory Board. We clearly stated this is necessary, and we will do it. Otherwise, we risk the output in the next year.

The next question is a written question. How confident are you to achieve your guidance for EBITDA on the higher end?

We are very confident.

We are very confident to achieve our guidance at the higher-end, confirmed.

Yes, we do both. And I can tell you why also maybe also reflecting on this a little bit why we are confident. We have now shown ramp-ups in all of the areas and in time, in budget means that we really did it in time and in budget. That means all the areas are trained to accelerate and do the expansions in the right way. We have teams who know now what can go wrong, what has to be mitigated, when do you have to address the risk factor early that you can solve it until the end. And this makes us very confident that the ramp-ups and the plan for this year will be executed to the higher end of the guidance.

We have another written question from Dhruv Chopra from MYAN. How do you view the competitive landscape in your key markets?

Yes. Maybe I start with Europe, we are far and away the best one. This shows by the clear cornerstone investment of Siemens Energy, who is capable of developing and delivering the most difficult and best performing power transformers, especially large power transformers. With this cornerstone investment, they showed up that they need a center. We are still negotiating on this topic to finalize something like a supply-resilience for them. In Europe, we are, let's say, in the high-end niche. We will stay there because we have a clear pipeline also of next innovation. We also lowered -- we increased our capability to thinner enamel. Now we will go in tests now with some of the customers to have tested in real time. So, there, we go to the leading-edge. What we also started if we -- so the main competitors in Europe is Essex, Shandong, De Angeli, who came back because there was a lack of capacity. In China, we now even asked in also of the State Grid to help them with their biggest new project. It will be CNY 1 trillion. And therefore, we show them because they need a special epoxy-class resistant to up to 200-degree Celsius, which only we can deliver. So we develop together even this transformer. We see that we are in all of the regions. This is the same is the case also in South America, where we have more or less, we are the single supplier, and we have a very high market share, more than 50%. Now, we will upgrade with the new CTO. We also invested into a new organizational structure. We have extended our Board. We have a CSO who is now intensively negotiating and bringing also the bundle of broad bundle of next negotiations to an end. Also the CTO, who is now responsible to bring out the technological-leadership and the ideas what we have in Europe and the tools, the upgrades of machines that we can be more precise than all the competitors, thinner enamel and have a better compact-transposing head. And therefore, also, we have in our CapEx program that the so-called ASTA-head is now installed in all of the CTC machines. And therefore, training goes on, and we are clear ahead of all of the competitors in each of the regions and slowly, but steadily grow our performance in all the areas.

Stephen Chang from GAM. Congrats on the successful listing and great quarter. How should we think about the current equipment lead times in the OEM's order-book? If that continues to be pushed out, would that affect your delivery timing or revenue realization?

I say clearly, no, it's not impacting us, but it will impact them because if they shift it, smaller ones will pick in and give them more competition on the long-end, on the pricing level. For us, it's a positive sign. It's always positive if they have a very long pipeline. We can deliver a lot quicker because our lead-times are compared to a power transformer is a lot lower. So, we have less problem. We have no topic on the delivery timing or revenue realization. It is improving or, let's say, it's strengthening our pricing power though.

Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question. I would now like to turn the conference back over to Karl Schacke for any closing remarks.

Yes. I think we started very well. We concluded the historically best year of ASTA where I think also our executive team is very proud of. They are very engaged and they are very much committed to bring ASTA to the next level. I can only invite you also to stay tuned with the information we give to the market and also invite you to May 28, where we will report on our very promising first quarter results. I hope to see you again, and we wish you a good day and a lovely weekend. Thank you very much for joining.

Thank you.