Astral Foods Limited (ARL) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good morning. It's 8:00. It's a little late for Astral's normal business. We start with the chickens. But the people coming from Casino. We thought it a little bit later. Welcome to this 23rd Annual General Media Astral National Foods. I'm Theunis Eloff, Chairman of the Board in terms of the memorandum of incorporation, I preside as Chairman Secretary informs me that the necessary quorum is present, and I therefore declare this meeting properly constituted. We have no apologies from directors. I suggest that the notice convening this meeting, which has been circulated and a copy of which is before you'd be taken as read, is that agreed. Thank you. I hereby exercised the authority granted in terms of Article 31-2 of the company's memorandum of Incorporation to the monopole on each of the motions to be proposed at the meeting to more closely reflect the sentiments of the shareholders. Shareholders have been issued voting papers on which you record their votes in respective the ordinary and special resolutions. I've appointed a representative of Computershare Investor Services, the company's share transfer secretaries to with the scrutineer for the purpose of the poll and to counter ballot papers. Each shareholder representative agent or proxy should have received the ballot paper. The ballot paper will be used for all the resolutions to be proposed at this meeting. Therefore, please keep your ballot paper after you have completed each part. The scrutineer will collect the ballot papers after all the motions have been voted on, and I will announce the results of the polls at the end of this meeting, and it will actually be shown on screen. Do all shareholders representatives, agents and proxies have ballot papers? Anyone without a ballot paper? And we only just check the profit ballot properly? Do you have a letter of representation? You only. We won't start before we have that sorted out. Can we continue? Okay. Each shareholder present in person and each representative agent or proxy has 1 vote for each share held or represented. It brings us to ordinary resolution #1. I have nothing to add to the Chairman's report or the financial statements before you and I propose that the annual financial statements for the year ended 30 September 2023 be approved and adopted. Will a member please second this proposal? Thank you, Mr. Mayet. Ladies and gentlemen, the proposal there has been some comment open of the discussion. Any questions on the financial statements and the Chairman's report. The poll on the motion can now be taken. Please complete part 1 of the ballot paper. [Voting]

In terms of Article 34.2 of the company's memorandum of incorporation, Mr. Ferreira be elected as a Director of the company. I now propose that Mr. Ferreira, the elected Asset Director of the company. Let me ask a member to -- thank you, [prepared. It's called open for discussion]. As you know, Mr. Ferreira, the CFO. Please then vote on this motion, part 2 of the ballot paper. Resolution 3-1. In terms of the company's memorandum of incorporation, as Mr. Diederik Fouche retire, but is eligible and available for reelection. No other nominations have been received. I now propose that Mr. Fouche, be elected as a Director of the company. [So second, please. Thank you over]. It's been second. Any questions? You can now then take the poll on that motion, Part 2.1 of the ballot paper. Part 3.2 in terms of the company's memorandum of incorporation, Mr. Saleh Mayet retires, but is eligible, available for reelection. No other nominations have been received. I now propose that Mr. Mayet be elected as a Director of the company. Any one? Thank you. Seconded? It's seconded. Any questions, discussion, please vote and complete Part 2.2 of the ballot paper. Order resolution #4, the directors propose that Mr. Evert Potgieter who has offered himself for reappointment the appointment as a member of the Audit and Risk Management Committee. Any comments for this proposal. Thank you, [indiscernible] . It's been seconded. Any questions, open for discussions. Mr. Coetany questions open for discussion. If not, then please complete part 4.1 of the ballot paper. 4.2, we propose that Mr. Saleh Mayet who has offered himself for reappointment be appointed as a member of the Audit and Risk Management Committee. Will a member, please, second this proposal. Thank you, [indiscernible] . It's been seconded. Any questions or discussion? If not, then please complete 4.2 of the ballot paper. 4.3, the directors propose that Mrs. Tshepo Shabangu who has offered herself a reappointment. We appointed as a member of the Audit Risk Management Committee. Well a member please second this proposal. Thank you very much. Any questions or discussion? If not, then please now complete at 4.3 of the ballot paper. It brings us to order resolution #5. We propose that Mrs. Tshepo Shabangu having offered herself or reappointment. We're appointed as a member of the social and ethics committee, Seconded for this proposal. Mr. Mayet Thank you. Any questions, discussion, please then complete part 5.1 of the ballot paper. It's not 5.1, but you have it on your ballot paper it's number 8. Then at 5.2. The directors proposed that I having offered myself a reappointment be appointed as a member of the Social and Ethics Committee. Remember, please to second this proposal. Thank you, [indiscernible] . Any questions or discussion on this proposal? Please then complete 0.9 of the ballot paper. The Directors further proposed Mr. Gary Arnold having offered himself a repointed and be appointed as a member of the [indiscernible] Committee. Seconded for this proposal? Thank you. [indiscernible] . Yes . It's been a content open for discussion and questions on this proposal. You can now complete 0.10 of the ballot paper. 5.4, Mr. Len Hansen has offered himself a reappointment, and we propose that he is appointed as a member of the Social and Ethics Committee. Remember, please second this proposal. Thank you, [indiscernible]. Both proposal are seconded. Any discussion or questions? Please then complete 0.11 on the ballot paper. Ladies and gentlemen, we take as a red order resolution #6 contained in a notice convening this meeting whereby Deloitte & Touche or Deloittes are appointed as the new auditors for the 2024 financial year. I now propose that Deloitte be appointed as audited for the financial year. Will a member please second this proposal. Thank you, Mr. Ferreira. Any questions or discussion on this? Please then complete Point #12 on the ballot paper. In order resolution #7 contained in the notice convening this meeting, whereby shareholders endorsed through a nonbinding advisory note, the company's remuneration policy. I now propose that through a nonbinding advisory vote, the remuneration policy being endorsed and adopted. Can we have seconded for this. Thank you, [indiscernible] . It's been seconded, open for discussion. Any questions? Please then complete #13 -- 0.13 of the ballot paper. This take us red ordinary resolution #8, contained in the notice convening this meeting whereby shareholders endorsed through a nonbinding advisory vote, the company's remuneration implementation report that, by the way, is based on the previous remuneration policy. I propose now that through a nonbinding advisory vote, note -- vote, sorry, the remuneration limitation report be endorsed and adopted. Can we have a second for this? Any questions? Any discussion? Please then complete 0.14 of the ballot paper. Audit Resolution #9, please take as read contained in the notice of being this meeting, whereby shareholders authorize and empower any 1 director of the company or the company Secretary, to take all such actions necessary to implement the ordinary and special resolutions set out in notes convening this meeting. I now propose that any 1 director or the company secretary to be authorized and empowered to take all those actions to implement the ordinary and special resolutions passes this meeting. Can we have this proposal seconded, please? Thank you. Any questions, discussion? Please then complete point #15 on the ballot paper. It brings us a special business of the meeting. Ladies and gentlemen, please take as read special resolution #1, contained in the notice convening this meeting, whereby no increase in the fees are proposed to nonexecutive directors. I propose that the fees payable to non-execs be approved. And we have seconded for this proposal. Thank you, Mr. [indiscernible] . Any questions on this? I think it stands to reason that in a year that it's been tough, the non-execs should also be part of the story. Please then complete 0.16 on the ballot paper. It brings us to special resolution #2, contained in the notice convening this meeting whereby shareholders grant authority for the directors to approve any actions related to any transactions mailing to financial assistance and which fall within the categories of interrelated company transactions. I now propose that we -- that the shareholders approve any actions in that regard. Second for this proposal? Thank you. Mr. Mayet. Any questions, discussion? Fairly straightforward. Please then complete 0.17 on the ballot paper. Brings us to the special resolution #3 contained in the notice convening this meeting, whereby shareholders authorize the company or any of its subsidiaries by way of a general authority to acquire ordinary shares in the company. I now propose that this motion is carried and is seconded for this proposal. Thank you, Mr. Mayet. Any questions on this? Scott, this proposal?

If you have funds available and you do not have better investment opportunities and paid out to shareholders, they know better what to do with that money. If you do not -- if you do not have fund investment opportunities available for the funds. Then surely, this is a motion of no confidence in the industry. As a mature that admission that you are in a mature industry, and it's better for shareholders to get out of something like this.

We take that point under ordinary circumstances, that would be especially a good question, obviously, under our present circumstances. There is no money available, and I can show you there are many good investment opportunities and capital projects that we would like to do that we've put on hold for the time being. But thank you very much for that. Any other questions or discussion, colleagues? Then we then ask you to complete Point 18 on the ballot paper. I now ask the scrutineer to collect all the ballot papers, please. We will wait for the results of the polls. There will be a shorter lay while with scrutineer counting the votes. They will also, therefore, then will also be time for other questions and comments, if there are any. Well, once we have all the ballot papers, I will give anyone who raises his hand. Mr. Clark, I will give him the first chance. Please go ahead.

Mr. Chairman, thank you. Members of the board, thank you. Always nice to be there, particularly [indiscernible] officers and I know it has been a very challenging year. I noted with interest -- thank you. And with interest in your [indiscernible] . And with interest your Half 1 update yesterday, which came out 2 months ahead of your March reporting period. You gave us a fair bit of color as to the challenges inside the company. But given you know kind of the sector and this company very closely. Could I perhaps indulge you. And one interesting line in the update was that you were looking to -- I didn't have it in front of me because I couldn't be intact, but you're looking to realign your current production in line with current market demands. I think when we met last in November, you indicated you were looking to change your production. What is your current production at Astral Foods? My first question.

Why don't you give us all of them. I ask the CEO to answer that.

Thank you for the question. Following the big bird era, in that point in time, we reduced our offering to the market from a basket perspective. And most of our product went into a 5 kilogram mix portion frozen back to the market. So after that, we had to realign with regard to supplying other sectors of the market, again, along with the required specs on the product. So we -- at a point in time, three, the big bird, the big impact from load shedding in our 2023, we process in the order of about 5.8 million birds per week. We have cut down placements more to the tune of 5.5 million birds per week at the time, and that is to realign our basket, and we're in the process with that. At the same time, we realize the plight of the consumer and the severe distress and in the effort to recover input costs, likelihood additional diesel bill, like the cost brought about by avian influenza, we also had to obviously go to the market and align our pricing to just recover input cost and definitely not profit tiering. If you look at our margins, that 5% are nonexisting. So it was not a profit tiering exercise. And of course, at a higher price with a commodity like chicken, the consumer is very sensitive. We read in the media that the QSR sales are much lower. It's a concern to those producers than prior years or some of them. And we know that the frozen product going into a specific market sector is also under threat. So to produce a product and not be able to sell it at the price that you need to recover your input cost is also a risk to the company. So we made a conscious decision. It was also impacted that decision by the fact that we have to import very expensive a fertile eggs. And if you combine all those factors, we made the conscious decision to -- and it's not a cutback. It's purely a realignment. What is positive about it is we now, for the first time, have spare capacity in our Arbitrage. So when the need arise, we can very quickly adapt to different market conditions than what we experience currently.

Thank you. Let's give Anthony 3 questions, and then we -- if there are any, is that fair.

Can I ask again when I saw when I saw him in November, you were very hopeful as an industry to try and get through a price increase over the festive period. You are far better placed than I. I heard that there wasn't much of a price increase from the retailing sectors because I'm not going to use my usual colorful sale language, but we're a little bit resistant in accepting price increases. Can I ask what price increase did you manage to get through, if at all, over the testing period?

Thank you, Jack. Can I go ahead? It's not a straightforward answer because you've got this different market sectors and channels and the pricing on those are different. But in general, we stated just purely on the cost base at the end of September, talking about those results in November that we need about ZAR 3.50 per kilo to get to a breakeven or very thin margin. ZAR 2 of that had to do mostly with the diesel bill and the additional feeding cost. And that ZAR 2 we gained in the market, not by a price increase, but purely to reduce your promotional activity. The deep cut promotion. So the price was already there or the pricing point. We just used to discount off that point. We just obviously reduced our activity on deep-cut promotions. So that gave us approximately ZAR 2. The additional ZAR 1.50 was to gain a bit of margin, which we need to rebuild our balance sheet. We were not very successful with that because our customers out there are stressed, and we struggled with that. So pricing year-on-year is slightly up, but still not enough to boast about. And that's definitely, as we said in the SENS yesterday, it's so marginal the profit margin that it's negligible. It is close to nothing. The prospects we have going forward, if we can keep this pricing levels, which is not excessive to the market, it's slightly up from the prior year, which is beneficial to the consumer. And definitely, we're not the big contributor to the price inflation in the food basket that we currently see being reported on. If we get a bit of benefit from input costs like a fairly good crop, maybe a bit of a stronger currency, that will help us with 70% of our cost, which is feed or our feed-in program with main contributors being maize and soya, we should most probably see a bit of benefit in our margin.

Third question?

Appreciate it. There has been, again, talk in the industry, but given the softer festive trading period and the lower draw from the QSR sector, but there is some inventory build. I mentioned to you of the vested period, I was in Spar Poland. They're running a very large special of 2kg IQF bags of 17,999, and I've never seen people fighting over bags of frozen chicken. And then driving around Johannesburg yesterday on high fold radio Shoprite had a special on your Goldi IQF at $140. So how is the current market and the inventory levels in the system because I'm getting feedback that the likes of RCL, sovereign amongst others do have a fair bit of inventory in the system because the festive period in terms of the consumer and QSR was not that great. So there's a hangover into January.

Thank you for that information. We never know what the inventory of our opposition is now. Thank you for that. So we will use that strategically. But allegedly, so what we've learned over the past 2, 3, 4, maybe years is that this massive peak and Easter and the festive season Christmas and New Year are not what they used to be. It's flattened out a bit. And I think also with the introduction of this quite aggressive Black Friday in November, takes away a bit of the peak of people buying in December. I think a lot of people stock up in November on frozen product. So we've learned that you don't see this massive peak in month ends anymore or in festive seasons. And so December from a fresh perspective, and I'm talking about Astral not the industry. From a fresh perspective, the sales were strong. It was good. It's also a good indication because why we like that as people go home and prepare the fresh meat and eat it immediately where with frozen product, it goes into somebody's deep freeze or in cold storage or somewhere into a consumer chain and you don't know if it's really consumed or just a stock buildup. So frozen products sales were not what we anticipated. And I think that is a direct reflection on people's earnings in the month of December, where they normally get a bit of a bonus. And with the current economy, and if you look at the GDP and you look at the inflation rate, I think it's a direct reflection of the plight of the consumer. So -- and that frozen product, of course, if you don't sell it, you go to outside cold storage and it cost you more and more. And hence, to click on your first question, Anthony, is that we adapt to those market conditions. And that's why we have placed a bit lower volumes, numbers of eggs in our hatcheries going forward. So not a great December from a frozen perspective. But just a quick note, from a fresh perspective, around the country with our 4 processing plants, we were running at full capacity 24/7.

Thank you, Chris. I think apart from those in the room, we have quite a number of analysts and others online. So I'd like to give anyone online an opportunity. No? No questions online. Okay. Then we're back to the room. And if someone else, then Mr. Claus Granson, salmon. Any other? You have a sense of humor. Any other questions from anyone else, please?

[indiscernible].

Yes, we remember also from last year.

It was somebody else from last year.

Thank you very Yes, AGM tend to go quickly. Thank you for being here. Yes. Thank you. Anything -- another two -- would that be a bit?

Mr. AI is here.

And recognizing that you flew all the way from Cape town.

I did at vast expense, which you have to pay for myself or my hard-earned savings.

Very sorry for you.

I have to ask again, in your update, it was firstly obvious to me that you're going to have a better reporting period. You didn't have to be an analyst to understand what was going on in the industry, and I'm not that clever. But I was quite intrigued with the comments you made regarding your feed section. Again, a lot of that was fairly obvious. Regarding AI, the fat birds, not being the eating less, et cetera, et cetera. Could you perhaps just give a little bit more feathers as to what's going on in the feed sector? That's my first question, please.

Thank you, Anthony. So about 70% -- 60%, 70% of the feed that we produce around the country is consumed in-house. Now if you look at the feed division's results in the prior financial period, it was substantially positive versus that comparative period in F '22. So we had a spike in profits in the feed division last year, and that was a direct result of keeping more birds longer on farm, which is a positive for the feed division but a negative for the poultry division because your cost go because -- and everything that goes worth keeping a bird longer on farm, the shape and the size thereof. So this year is different from last year. We managed to buy the middle towards the end of June, realign the business from the big bird perspective or the older age birds, and we could normalize our production system when we were back to target weights and target age around about the 16th of June. And from there on, obviously, your requirement for feed in-house to your broilers reduce. So that we don't see in this year, that additional feed. That's why we made the statement. If you look at it just cold at the figures, it looks like the feed division is not doing well, but it's because of internal volumes. And obviously, that is now a swing from the prior year. It's a benefit to the one and a deficit to the other part. And that's the swing around. So it's purely from that perspective. And then, of course, we get asked the question, why don't you hunt for external volumes. But with AI around, you don't really want your feed trucks to drive around the country and go on to farms that could possibly be infected. So we made a conscience decisions not to pursue external volumes, and we still are as we haven't seen the end of bird flu as it is still prevalent amongst our wild birds.

[indiscernible].

We have to compare year-on-year because it was for a part of last year, Gary, at a specific feeding program. So volumes were most probably in our speed down by about 20% on 60% to 65% of the volume. So in total, most probably 12% -- 10%, 11%, 12% down on last year. But I think if you compare it to the year before that, it will be more or less in line to normalized years.

And now the back to you.

No, no, that's a good bit first, which I'm sure Mr. CEO would love to comment on. I read with great interest. You're well aware that I wrote last October on our dear Minister Patel and his flip-flopping on the temporary import tariffs, which came as a bit of a shock to myself and I think the entire country. And then we saw last Friday, the government gazette and the tariffs, and I did have a conversation with varying parties. And I would just like some comments from you regarding this because firstly, I'm staggered because I am well aware as an independent analyst and someone who's not that clever. But we have no shortage of chicken in this country. In fact, we probably have a little bit too much, and I'm amazed you got away with it. The other thing he mentioned in that little message, which I have printed here is how long as things potentially going to be in the system? Because it seems to be like an open-ended thing. So could you perhaps give us an educated analyst a bit more color on what the dear old minister thinks he's up to? And how long this temporary duty tariff could be in place because certain external parties seem to be part wheeling around the offices, the potential of this for them, unlike the domestic sector. My next question will be to Mr. AI, just a general update.

The last, yes. Thank you. So sometimes, if I look at the actions that come from our government institutions. So I also feel a bit uneducated. We were requested to make submissions to iTech through various channels, and one of them was Sapa that we use, which is an industry body -- independent body from any single producer. We made submissions and resubmissions with regard to the status of production, the impact of bird flu, the impact it had on breeding stock. And together with that, we indicated very clearly all the plans we have in place to be resilient towards avian influenza. And most of those activities were around keeping flocks a bit longer, creating different kind of eggs, some of the ungraded eggs previously. So it had a negative impact on any poultry business. And then, of course, the big thing is to apply for permits and license to import fertile eggs. Now the broiler industry can react to that kind of importation much quicker than the egg reducing of the layer industry. So the whole industry, everybody on them by themselves applied for import licenses, which was granted. And we had a specific cost team driven by Gary Arnold and his Merryman, his team, Dr. Bid and so forth. And we secured -- we first had [indiscernible] Hatcheries approved for as a -- what do you call it, Gary? Quarantine facilities, which was an effort on its own. And then we started with the importation program from America, Brazil, especially those 2 countries, and we landed a number of eggs to date. How many eggs have we imported? 20 million fertile eggs Astral by its own. The industry much more so. So we could prove to iTech, and there was a conversation to Minister Patel by the industry that said there will be no shortage. I went -- I was asked many questions before the festive season in various media articles and looking at our contingency plans, there were absolutely no panic with regard to the supply of chicken and to date as we sit there, we haven't missed 1 bet with AI amongst us and losing 40% of our breeding stock. It was replaced by contingency plans at a cost, of course, which is now on your base cost, but never was there 1 chicken short in this country. So where this comes from is really questionable, and we will challenge that as an organization because we think and we see it from this side that this undue pressure on the poultry industry for something that simply doesn't exist. There is no shortage of chicken. You can go and ask, interrogate any retailer, any channel, go and ask the cold storage people, any producer in this country currently, if there's a shortage of chicken. As a matter of fact, we produce more chicken now in South Africa than prior to AI. So it's a lot of hard work.

Thanks, Chris.

How long do you think this then will actually last?

Well, we will challenge through you. We will challenge whatever applications there is because we can prove we've got facts, and I think if we refer back to the mid Importers Association. For many years, they've challenged us and every time they challenge us and they use the media as a fighting ground. They come up with nonfactual statements. And again, we saw during last year when AI broke, they went straight to the media to -- that's their battleground. And they said there's going to be this massive shortage. They went to the minister, got appointments, got to iTech and said, this can be the shortage, open the borders for importation. Well, we can now prove once again that the fight that the importers are fighting are based -- are untrue. There is no shortage. The second angle to that when they learned when we could prove there's no shortage. And to their embarrassment, they said, but the spike in price will reduce the demand. That's why we say, well, there were no spike in price. Get any auditing company to come and audit our figures, [indiscernible] the industry, there was no spike in price. So this is also a message to the mid importers. Please let's stick to facts and stick to the truth.

Thank you. Is on AI. Thanks.

Anthony, in general, the bad flu highly pathogenic cabin influenza forms the H5N1 which we started seeing in April last year. But the most ravaging form was the H7 and 6, that virus is still around. It's in wild beds. It's in backyard chickens, and there's still some commercial layer farms that are affected. So the virus is still around. The prevalence has reduced quite significantly purely because most of the host or the birds have been culled. And that's still a concern. We -- in discussions with the government to give us the most necessary to, which is vaccination now. But in essence, it is still a big concern.

It's -- AI has started very early in Europe this year. Are you concerned regarding the current winter season will vaccination be out? Does this go we're an election period. There are no moving very quickly.

So definitely, the seasonality pattern of the virus has changed. This May 7 and 6, we started seeing all picking up just late autumn going into spring. So the biggest peak was in spring. And historically, we've known the virus to peak in autumn and winter. So that has changed quite significantly now. In this instance, we want to believe that by the time we go into the colder season, which we still consider it as a risky period even though I just said now, late spring -- sorry, late autumn and spring was a bigger peak. We would like to vaccinate going into that winter period. The H5 vaccination is more on the horizon because the vaccination protocol is out. It's very honor as expensive, but it has been sent out by the Director of Animal Health. So we allowed to vaccinate in principle. These 3 H5 vaccines that have been approved. However, the vaccine that we need most, the H7 hasn't been approved yet. So that's the 1 we're driving hard to get it approved. And Anthony, in terms of the timing, the type of vaccines that we use are very important. So with the 5, the 3 vaccines that are approved, you can use them both at the HR and on the farm. But the H7, the 1 that we believe could be approved soon, you can only use it at the HRE. You have a whole population that's on the floor now that you would like to vaccinate. And with that vaccine, you can't do it now. So we could still go through winter even spring being exposed to the H7. But I think all the effort is there to try and mitigate this risk.

How much of these things cost?

A lot.

So Chris, if I may. So the estimated number, depending what type of vaccine is because, like I said, different types. On average, it's about anything between ZAR 2.50 and ZAR 3.95 and that obviously depends on your vaccination program that you want to use.

Is it the ZAR 2.50? Is it per dose or privilege?

That's a whole program per bird, yes.

Maybe just to -- before some of the analysts get to the wrong conclusion, remember that's in your breeding stock. So the ZAR 2.50 has not added cost to your to your selling product. So eventually, if you get the offspring of that, you divide it through your pillars, it will be below $0.10 per kilo impact on your cost.

Thank you very much, colleagues. Thank you, Anthony, for all the good questions. I am told that the results are out. Please, Mr. Vice. Just wait for the microphone.

I'm just very interested to hear the comment that Chris gave us about fresh during the Christmas season, the fact that the demand was strong enough for us to basically sell our whole production. Isn't that quite encouraging that the market is, in fact, starting to recover? Or is it something specific that's really happened in the market.

JAI, if I pay with you, the guy responsible for the sales, Mr. Frans, Fontan or France. I would like him to respond because he reports on it on a daily basis.

Thank you, Mr. Mas. I think it gets more specific to fresh. We didn't see the same all through the entire market, as we've explained before. So I think we've seen a change from frozen to fresh, which maybe has got something to do a little bit with load sharing and something to do with affordability in the mid weeks. So I do believe it's specific to fresh.

Well, then thank you very much for the participation. There you have the results. I'm not going to read it. You could read for yourselves. It seems to me -- even with my 6, 8-year old son that all the motions have been passed with the requisite majority, which is a novelty for us in the last few years, and we thank the shareholders for that. And also for those of you who are present here, physically, we're also online. Thank you very much. And thereby, the meeting is concluded. There's still some coffee and tea. Just bring back the results, please?

I think we should leave it on for people that.

Okay. Okay. That we ask that we just leave it on for people who have logged in, who may want to just take down some of the numbers. So we can do that. And obviously, interview are also able to do that. Thank you very much. There's still some refreshments and some time for further discussion. Thank you so much. Concluded.