Astral Limited (ASTRAL) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon, everyone. After a long break of almost 3 years we can see all the known cases before us. So very, very delighted to see all of you. And to start with the program. I welcome you all. I was just calculating after exactly 3 years, we are meeting everyone in-person. The time has just passed or flied. And I am happy that everyone is safe and now the world has put COVID in the back seat and progress in the front seat. But I was in U.S., a couple of days back there nobody remembers COVID actually and everybody is back to work. Lot of things have happened and a lot of questions would be there for you, for us to answer. A lot of new things have come. We have always briefed you on our con calls, but to talk in person is absolutely different than when we talk on a con call. So we were delighted to host this analyst meet. And I made it a point we want analyst meet this year with whatever happens. Now I'll jump for a few slides. Some of the things everyone knows, but to go through the presentation, 1986 incorporation Astral has grown multifold, and now we have a family of 6,000 people working in the corporate. We have export presence. We have manufacturing presence in 3 countries. We have 18 manufacturing units. We have a production capacity of like 370,000 metric tons, 23 depos and 2,500-plus distributors and 180,000-plus dealers. The corporate structure as [indiscernible] Resinova, we have 97.45%, now with the merger, it will become Astral in the next few days. Seal IT is 80%. Still, we have the -- Mr. David as our partner, who will still be with us for coming few years. And Kenya, which unit was 50%, but we have exited Kenya market. And the unit will be -- is closed and will be complete -- and will be -- completely the unit will be closed this year. So there won't be any Astral in Kenya. Gem Paints, which we recently acquired is 51%, and Seal IT U.S. is 100% ownership of the U.K. entity. So these are the product lines. Now we are in water tanks. Apart from pipe, we are coming in faucets and sanitary ware, as you have seen, the Valve project is complete, paints is there. I want to just brief you about what happened in the last 2 years. Astral went into the expansion of its facilities in Ahmedabad. We put up a full-fledged tank unit at Ahmedabad plant at Santej. We started a new technology piping systems in PP multi-layer. We already had the [ silencio ] pipe, which is doing excellently well. We have added 1 more category in that to take on the pricing trends of PVC and with additional benefits, which this product gives. We added capacities of our fire sprinkler pipe, which has started doing very good in some of the states. We completed the pipe and the Valve project at Dholka, which we had been talking for almost now 2 years. We have a whole range of valves up till 12-inch. We have started -- we have launched it in the Indian market, and we will be working on exports of the same to Europe and parts of America and global exports, we are tying up with the Valve project. Valve project is a high-margin project with high technology. We also increased capacities where need be in the Dholka plant with the addition of fitting range, which we completed in our pressure application, which is normally called the agriculture application. In the South, at Hosur plant, we started corrugated pipes to feed the south market, and we started manufacturing of water tanks. We did a small acquisition in Aurangabad to come into the water tanks. Sarita is the brand name, which is sold parallel to Astral brand, especially in Maharashtra, and Sarita was a company which was in water tank. To enter the water tank business with 2 technologies, the rotomolding and the blow mold, we went head and acquired this small company. We have now started even pipe manufacturing at Aurangabad in Sarita to feed the retail network where Sarita tanks are going. We have also started pipe manufacturing at [ Rex ], at Sangli. Sangli location also, we added certain capacities. Unfortunately, we were not utilized for 1.5 years because the downturn of COVID, the spending was very low on infrastructure. But last 6 months, the spending on infrastructure has improved at such a level that we are now short in supplies. So we are getting orders of certain products where we have to wait for the supplies. We honor the orders at 15 days, 1 month of time. So things are much better on that part. Yes, that water tank and corrugated pipe in the Ghiloth plant at Rajasthan. Rajasthan plant now even makes all the range of water tank for North. We just commenced our production in Orissa. Orissa plant has started manufacturing water tank. Construction work is almost on the verge of completion, and we will be adding pipe production range at the East plant in coming 4 to 6 months to complete -- to see the plant is up and running. Telangana, we acquired land. We have started construction to start the water tank project first and then coming into the pipes for the Telangana and surrounding markets. The North plant in Uttaranchal also has -- is running at the optimum capacity. So we are planning to either expand it or to help ways how to expand it because we are [ landlord ] there. So we are working on how to expand that plant. Adhesives, we -- with some expansion not much in Kanpur Unnao, Rania. We did improve the Rania facility to the level of a world-class facility. We have done balance expansion in Unnao, but at some point, we have to hand over the Unnao property back as per the agreement. So we are only doing balance expansions there. But we have started the work of building a state-of-art plant in Gujarat at Dahej. And next year, the Dahej plant will be operational with certain chemistries, and we'll keep adding chemistries at Dahej plant and make it a manufacturing hub for most of our chemistries in adhesives. We expanded our R&D facility in Ahmedabad in adhesives. We have state-of-art R&D facility with almost 50-plus people working who are either PhDs or are very trained on -- are well worked with the R&D activities and are in the R&D activity. So adhesive per se has also expanded product line has expanded, and we have added a lot of new chemistries in adhesives and expanded the portfolio. Looking to the market creation and reach. We have now we are [ foraying ] into faucets and sanitary ware the product -- some of the products are in display here. And the launch is happening on June of 10th at Goa. It's a massive launch with complete range. We have strategic tie-ups to make the product. Most of our tie-ups are on the exclusive basis. We have taken the complete capacities of the plant. So they would be working on exclusive basis. Atul is here. Most of you know him. So can interact with him after the meet is over. And we have our in-house design team. We have not gone and made any product, which is completely available on the shelf by a job worker. So we have done -- everything is in-house design, and then we are bringing the product to the market. And recent acquisition of paints, I think a lot of questions on paints. So we'll go more deeper into all these 2 new avenues. So this is [ foraying ] to paints, paint and faucets, faucets behind the valve or in front of the valve. Paint and adhesive go hand-to-hand, especially when you are coming in a full range of construction chemicals. Gem Paints brought us 2 things. One, we have to work a lot on South in adhesives, which are by the owner of Resinova never worked in the South market. So we are absolutely not present when we acquired Resinova in South. From there, we have reached a level, but not to the level the competitors are. So Gem has a very strong presence in South. South market, there was a good retail network. Sale -- the gross revenue was INR 260 crores last year from the South market only. There were complete chemistry of paints, which is needed and is done by the big paint manufacturers. Nitin's father, who started the company in 1981 is a research guy in paints. He had worked for the Indian giant on the research and setting up of factories. So still his passion is research. They have the -- not only the product line, but they make better products than available in the market. Second, we have just put up a new plant and capacity state-of-art plant. The plant is highly automized. The plant has a capacity to grow 4x to 5x and still not do any CapEx. Secondly, for us, the retail network, which exists in adhesives. We did a survey on this in the other markets, East, North and West. 70% to 80% are in paint business. That gives us an extension to our product range. Our construction chemicals can be easily -- not easily I can say can be sold through the painters and the paint market segment. Secondly, we are not going to be aggressive to be a number here to fight on anyone to throw money to do huge branding on any branding, we do endpoint branding. Astral already has a good branding activity going on and the branding activity has made the Astral a brand today. So we are not going to additionally burn any cash here. There is no expansion needed here. So no CapEx will be planned in paint for at least next 2 to 3 years, I would say, 3 to 4 years. And there would be no risk. If we grow at a 15%, 20% plus, it's 20% around, it's good enough to maintain a decent EBITDA, which they have been maintaining for 25 years. It is a zero-debt company. They have a track record of -- we checked the 10-year track record, they have a track record of maintaining EBITDA in double-digit plus. This is our very clear foray not to talk of thousands here not to talk of numbers here, not to talk of any race here, but strategically mingle this business into our adhesive and pipe and faucet business and do expansion of business with the right utilization of the network, which we have created with distributors and dealers through our programs. So I think still, there will be a lot of questions on paint, which we'll answer in the QA session. So as I already talked about the opportunity, which we ourselves see to growing paints and the faucets. Also, there are distributors in pipes, distributors in adhesives and dealers who have come to their optimum sale capacities of pipes. They are doing INR 50 crores, 5 people this year crossed INR 100 crores in pipe. So they are looking at new opportunities. If we are not to give those opportunities to work with them and grow they are going to bring in other companies to work with. And if they bring in other companies, if they bring certain competitors, we also need to see that they will grow on the back of us on the Astral brand and Astral pipes because Astral pipe sales is something so big for them. They can write other products on that very easily. This is the thing which we debated a lot around on these things. And then strategically, we went with the company, which already has a presence and it already knows the business and has a decent number and a decent price, which we could get. We have worked as a trendsetter. We have products for the first time in the piping segment, we have recently which product we got the PP is globally first product we have got. So we have been a trendsetter. And we would like to continue as a trendsetter with the generations added up. Nitin here, who is at present running Gem is also a very young entrepreneur and Savlani ji, you know from us, he is with us from years too, now more than CFO, entrepreneur and both the sons and Atul ji, here too help us to run the faucet business. So Astral journey, as everyone knows, but here is a part that we have from '96 to '22, we have always given growth. We've always grown both in our capacities, our product lines, our reach, our systems and our product, how to make things better always. So that is what we have always done, and with the new geographies, which we extended ourselves. These are some awards and recognitions. Pipe is a plumbing -- is something which has exceptionally grown in these 2 years, especially CPVC. CPVC has run into shortage for the last 2 years, and it's still running into tight position. So we are growing exceptionally in our plumbing product lines. We had a little tonnage lesser growth. The reason is that our double-wall corrugated, the infrastructure pipe business has come down the various reasons known to you in the capital expenditure, which was topped by the government projects, but things are back in. So these are our various plants with our capacities. Adhesives, as I already mentioned, that apart from what we did in India, we have done exceptionally well in U.K. and U.S. U.S. apart from the silicon tape, we have launched roof sealing products, which have taken up very well and are doing excellently well. Just 6 months back, we have launched roof sealing products there. The technology is from U.K., and we at present export from U.K. in bulk, we repack at U.S. and sell in the market. In near time, in 5 to 6 months, we will be starting certain additional products in U.S. market. Technology will come from U.K. plant. So these are the manufacturing facilities. Everyone is aware Astral is now present in all the parts of India. East, we were not there. We have just started the East, and East -- we are almost East and Southeast, we are -- we'll get 2 plants. So we have a pan-India presence. We have now digitalize the whole company. Right from order processing, to dispatches, to the distributor billing pattern, we can transparently see our distributors' billing patterns. We have a DMS system. Our app, plumber and dealer is through electronic platform, Astral Loyalty app. Similarly, Resinova has also programmed. So we are now directly connected to plumbers, carpenters, masons and part of electricians. We are not connected directly with the painters, which we will have will work with our own expertise and digital platforms when we enter into the details of the Gem business shortly. And we -- we're the only company who in the second wave, encash plumber and dealers point, and we give INR 32 crores to the market. And they encash this point when people were sitting home and they were in the need of money. So we were the only company who came forward and encash their programs and whatever the points that have accumulated. So it is such a robustic program, which we have designed completely that we have a direct connect to the end user. And we know the end user is buying, not buying, when he's buying, what he's buying, why he's not buying. So it gives a huge transparency for us in our retail network as well as our end connect with the end user, the applicator. So these are the product offerings in the pipe business. I already discussed most of them. By product, we are now processing all polymers. We are in CPVC, we are in PVC, we are in HDPE, we are in PP. So we now process all the polymers. Formally, we are only CPVC -- PVC company. Then we went into REX. So we come HDPE. Now we have also water tanks, again, HDPE and other polymers. So we process all the polymers in the plastic segment. So this is a unique product Drain Pro, which I mentioned, a multilayer pipe made in [ PE ] and it is -- has more strength than PVC, and it is hardly costlier than the PVC. So the cost effectiveness is such that you get a lot of benefits, less price escalations and much more benefits which you get. So it is -- this product, we have just launched around 3 months back, 2 months back. And without any push, we are getting INR 1.5 crores to INR 2 crores sale a month. And the Silencio, which was when we met last time was INR 2 crores or INR 3 crores is now INR 6, INR 7 crore, INR 8 crores. So around INR 100 crores buffer. Tank, we just finished last year with first year itself with INR 45 crores. And this year, we are targeting INR 100 crore plus. Our average run rate is INR 9 crores to INR 10 crores a month from last 2 months. So tanks, the traction is very high. Sometimes I feel we should have come at least 2, 3 years back in tanks. But whenever things start it is always good for us. So valves the range is on display, complete range is in production, we will be -- we have launched in India, we'll slowly start export launch in next 2 to 3 months. So we have always talked about this valve business. And the opportunity in next 1, 2 years is INR 100 crores plus for valves and with better margins here. Tanks, we have multiple ranges as there are ranges available, 3 layer, 4 layer, 5 layers, all these things. So you have to have the complete range, and we have the complete range of tanks. Adhesives, we have a complete range. Now construction chemicals was something which needs -- get to be completed. We have completed that portfolio also to get into construction chemicals. Silicones, we have been doing good and hybrids also we have been doing good. And we have just launched a new BondTite range, which is the first type of -- in the globe, better than the global competitors, which is called BondTite Pro, which gives more adhesion and more spread because in adhesives, people need spread so that a lesser product can do more work. So we have this product line, and we did a marketing campaign on BondTite also recently. So solvent also we have a huge range. And I think adhesive, we have in 3 years done a massive expansion of range and justifying the sale of every range. So branding initiatives, I think formerly, Kairav looks after adhesives Saumya looks after and Kairav also is in pipe and now we all work for faucets together and paints, we have to learn from Nitin now. So we have just signed Allu Arjun for South. Because South, we want to grow overall in our business in pipes also, adhesives also. Paints is now there. And South, the penetration of our brand ambassador from Hindi belt is very weak. So we got the right tie up with him. I think he is now the most favorable person for the South. And so we'll be doing only South campaign with him only South 4 states -- 5 states now. Ranveer Singh is already there to take care of other markets and campaigns are on within. So I think [Foreign Language]. So this is one-off is head. [Foreign Language]. I think most of you must have seen this ad. [Foreign Language] Going from presentation. [Foreign Language]. Gujarat Titans has won yesterday. So everyone knows that Astral is a part of this branding activity. And these are the other branding in-film brandings we have done. So in short, here, we would like to tell you that with all the -- whoever it has done, it is x, y, z is not the question. But it has helped us to create a strong brand known to user also and nonuser also. And this benefit is what we are looking at to grow ourselves. Today, if you go to the market and if you ask about Astral, at least with proud pride, we can say that we are known as a stronger brand, as a value addition brand and also a brand which is well known for a quality product. So this is what we have worked and created around whatever the activities we have done at all the levels. And this is what is the strength to bring in the product line, which we are going to put to the market with additions, at least people carry a brand trust with us, at least with Astral name, somebody would at least try tin of our paint or at least 1 faucet from us or at least something from us, which I'm pretty sure. And with this extension of brands, the new activities, which we have taken to extend ourselves as a rural brand, rural marketing activity. We have just started from last year a division for rural market. We found that we were present in cities, urban cities, but any town below 2 lakh of population. Our presence was miniscule. We were either in 1 shop or not at all. The reason is the distributors in the urban were making the product so costly and unaffordable, charging 15% premiums, 10% freights. We've come out with a new division with a new head with the urban and rural market. Rural market we have completed, and we are getting very good results from Gujarat we did as a trial. We finished Rajasthan. Now we are working on Maharashtra and Madhya Pradesh. And we have a new team of marketing people for rural and all the products are going, especially as present only pipes, but rural presence of Resinova is already very strong. And with this, the pipe which we are selling to rural is giving very positive traction. So that is new additional marketing initiatives taken up from last year. CSR, we are doing our best CSR activities. We are the -- the closest thing to our heart is jungles. So we spend good amount behind the wildlife. And then rest of the activity, some are being done at Gujarat level and some are being done at the India level on our CSR activities. Health care was something which everyone and everyone has done last year. So similarly, Astral has come forward and done a lot on the health care part of the CSR activity. COVID measures everyone has helped. So similarly, we have done even much better what we could do in the COVID times for the people of India. We have just got certificate -- lead certificate -- platinum lead certificate. Just a few days back, we got this for our plant, Santej plant. So I don't know, let's leave that. So way forward is, we are going and envisioning a good growth in the piping market, especially in the plumbing in coming years. Everyone had a question from morning I've been answering that what would be now -- way forward to pipe will you continue to grow and how much. So in 2-digit plus we will grow, I'm sure. I'm still not telling value are we still focus on the volume part, which is more important for us to grow than the value part. For adhesives, we have touched INR 1,000 crores, which we promised. And from here onwards, also, the same 15%, 20% plus growth will continue, which is our focus. And the teams are aligned, the divisions are aligned, the systems are aligned, the endpoint contact with the users is aligned. The [ tertiary ] visibility is 80%, 90% for us in both pipe and adhesives pipe is a little less. We are increasing. And this is giving us a good understanding of the user market and people. So this is going to help us a lot. Paint, as we have given a guidance that we would do our best to continue growth with Gem in South and add the geographies one by one. We don't want to rush and add that we know everything in India, and we will do it something, not spend any after anything, which is wasteful or burn cash. Faucets also will be opening market by market with our distributors. We are launching in June. We are targeting faucets to reach 2 to 3 years by INR 500 crores. We are looking at paints to grow 2, 3 years by INR 600 crores, INR 700 crores. We are not looking at huge numbers here also go very systematically and with firm footing in the market. So a lot of concerns about thousands being declared by people is not what we are looking at. We are strong at the segment we are and we will stay strong and keep growing at that level. So the industry outlook of pipes is very positive, I can say, plumbing segment is very, very positive. And we will be adding products distributor [ in each ] market urban, rural. So we see very positive traction there. Agri market also will be addressing with the rural base, which we are growing and increasing. So that will also give us an extension of our other product lines, which will be sold in the agriculture sector. So these are the revenue numbers which we told that this is what optimistically we are looking at. Similarly, in adhesives, 15%. I think most of the things we'll answer jointly when you have Q&A. So again, thank you very much, all of you for taking time with mask-free atmosphere. And we can see everyone. And we will be delighted to see this type of -- COVID pull behind and growth come back to the economy for this year and years to come. So a lot of people would like to meet in person also. So I'll be here up till 7 also. So we can meet one-to-one also. Okay. Thank you very much here on Hiranand bhai will take over from the financials. Thank you.

Good afternoon, once again. Before I start, I think we should give the introduction of our teammates who have joined with us though they are not on the dias, but we can introduce one by one. Kairav, you all know, he is the elder son of Sandeep Engineer, graduated from Arizona State University. -- sorry, Georgia Tech University, Saumya is from Arizona. So you all know, so he doesn't need much introduction. Saumya, the younger son, Saumya, can you stand up? So he has graduated from Arizona State University, and he is right now taking care of adhesive, and now he's learning the paint business from a young gentlemen, Mr. Nitin. Nitin is our paint partner, the company which where we have acquired 51% stake, so you can interact relating to paint because he knows better than me, so better you interact with him directly for the paint. Atul ji, don't need introduction. He is taking care of our -- the sanitary ware and the faucet division. So this is the team which we have brought. But I think much, much bigger team we are having in Ahmedabad. So every division, we are having the professional people working, whether it's HR, whether it's IT, whether it's a purchase division, marketing, so many from IIMs, I don't know how many people are working in Astral now. So very, very big team I can say as Sandeep bhai rightly said in the initial remarks that today, Astral family is a 6,000 people family. So it's not a small family now. So now again, coming back to the financial side of the company. So let us focus over there. So if you see the revenues growth of last 4 years. Y-o-Y, we have put the 4-year, last 2-year number will be even better than that. But we wanted to show you the pre-COVID base also. So because of that, we have taken a CAGR growth of 4 years. So you can see from here that we are growing at a 22% CAGR growth over the last 4 years. Though there was an adverse situation of COVID in last 2 years. But in spite of that, also, we have delivered excellent number, I can say. And last year, was the abnormal year where we have grown 38% though we have promised in our last presentation that our company is expecting to double our top line in next 5 years of practically 15% CAGR again, that we have delivered 38% growth. Similarly, in EBITDA also, you can see that last 4-year growth is much, much better than the top line growth, that is 28%. And last year, though there was so much of inflation in spite of that, we were able to grow our EBITDA by 19%. Similarly, PBT also, we have grown 35%. And last year, it was around 21.5%. PAT is the same pattern, 41% is the top line. And last year, it was 23.83%. Similarly replicated in EPS also and same thing with the cash profit also. This all presentation will be available to you. So no need to write any numbers because shortly, we are going to upload this presentation to the BSE and NSE site and as well as our company's website also. So pipe, you can see the continuous capacity addition is taking place. So we have grown capacity by almost 9% in spite of utilization was low because we were having preplanned CapEx scheduled because we know that the utilization last year was just 52%. But in spite of that, we are continuously adding the capacity because we wanted to decentralize ourselves. So we started our journey with West, then we entered into the Southern market. So we put up our capacity in South, and we entered into the North market. And now you have just recently entered into the Eastern market, where the tank business is very happily to share with you in the very first month of launch of tank, we are going to do INR 1 crore of business from the East. So that is a very, very encouraging number for us in the very first month itself. And pipe, we are going to shortly start in the East. So still pipe, machines are being installed, but production has not come. Similarly, sales value also, you can say, in the volume terms, it's 9.5% of the last 4 years CAGR, which is also a very, very healthy growth, I can say, perhaps we may be 1 of the best company in the volume terms in the industry in the last 4 years CAGR basis. This is the working capital. We always communicated to the investor community that Astral management is very, very serious about the working capital side, and you can see, continuously, we are always trying to improve our working capital cycle. And that is why you can see we are sitting with a sizable cash though, we are doing a lot CapEx. Last 5 years, you've seen in the last previous presentation of Sandeep bhai that, we have spent INR 1,000 crores in the CapEx in the last 5 years. The actual fruit will come now. Somebody was asking today morning the question to me that do you think that the ROC will be maintained? So I was explaining them that last 5 years, we already spent INR 1,000 crores. But actually, the utilization has not taken place. Because of decentralization of plant, we keep pumping the money on the CapEx cycle. But the real utilization will come because now we are expecting the demand scenario will change because sizable demand is there at the developer level, and most of the good developer of the countries are adjusted with the ready inventory. So the moment ready inventory will be down, then there is a high probability that the new construction activity will take place. And we are quite confident that normally, if you see the cycle of real estate, whenever the new construction activity started, it remained 5 to 7 years' time. So we are personally feeling that next 5 years will be a good year for the building material industry. So you can see here on the working capital cycle that across all the parameters we have improved. So our net working capital cycle has come down from 18 to 12 days just. So that is 1 of the best thing I think Astral has done in the last 2 years during the COVID period also, we have tried to improve our working capital cycle. Adhesive business also, if you see the CAGR growth over the last 4 years, it is 17% last 2 years with a much, much better growth. Last 2-year CAGR was 31% because you know that we accepted our mistake in adhesive and we corrected that also. And I'm sure you must have seen our con call commentary that we were telling that we did the mistake in our distribution network and all. So we corrected that. And that is why 2 years, our growth was at PAR, but now we have again come back and we are growing at a very fast track. And that is why you can see the 2-year CAGR is almost 32%. And last year, it was 37%. So now we are back. And as promised in our con call last year in the Q1 that we are targeting to be a INR 1,000 crore company in the adhesive business, and I think we have delivered that. So we standby with our commitment, what we have done to you guys. EBITDA also of 14.5%, particularly this year, EBITDA was tremendous pressure because of the chemical, you all know the chemical cycle has gone up havoc. Nobody thought that many of the chemical will be the 100% price rise, even some chemicals are 200% price rise also. And normally, in the retail industry, all the biggies in the history, they have never ever done the price rise frequently because normally, retail price doesn't change frequently. But this time is a black [ swan ] kind of event, I can say. So because of that, so much of inflation is there into this adhesive side and chemical side, particularly, so because of that pass-through is taking place with a little lag, and that is what exactly happening with us also. So we are also passing through with some lag, and that is why some pressure is there. But the moment the reverse cycle will start I'm sure and confident that our margin will expand very fast. The moment this chemical cycle will reverse. And in some chemicals, it has already started reversing also. But still, we cannot say with conviction that it will shortly going to reverse because still the supply chain has disturbed at the global level, China problems are already there because of their zero COVID policies. So very, very difficult to predict at this stage. But at least it looks that now some in near-term, it is going to be there and the pick has been formed. So now from here on, at least, it will not go much upside, but the downside chances are very bright. This is the breakup of our revenues. So plastic business is contributing 77% and adhesive is 23%. More or less, we have maintained hardly 1% gap is there between the adhesive and the plastic business. Plastic business is a little bit has increased 1% mainly because of the storage tank. We did about INR 45 crores last year. So this is the consolidated number, including adhesive and the pipe. More or less, it is same range. You can say the top line of last 4-year CAGR is 20% last year was 38%, EBITDA was 26%, this year, it's 19%. Last year was a sizable element of the, you can say, the inventory gain also because of the continuous price rise in the polymer side. And this year, with the other way around in the last quarter, some inventory loss was there. So because of that, the margins are coming back to the normal trajectory, which we are always guiding that the normal broader range of the business will be around 16% to 18% kind of EBITDA. PBT also similar patient, 31.78% growth and last year, it was INR 21.67% growth. PAT, [ EPS ] and all cash profits following the same pattern. Here also, you can see that the working capital cycle, we always communicated that we are very, very cautious about that. So adhesive also, we are continuously trying to improve that cycle because our more focus is on B2C side. Our 90% to 93% of the business is coming from B2C side of the business in adhesives and you can say B2B side is hardly 5% to 7% kind of [indiscernible]. So today, brand is getting stronger and stronger, and we released the first ad of BondTite after entering into this adhesive business. So that ad has got a very, very good response. Unfortunately, that ad is not running right now, but you do it post my presentation. So we'll show you the ad. I'm sure many of you must have seen and most of you are in my WhatsApp group also. So I keep communicating all of you whatever the development is happening at the company level and putting the ads also in the group. So there also, we have reduced the working capital cycle from 27 days to 21 days. This is the net cash position 2 years before we were in negative cash base, but now substantial improvement is happening. This is a net position I'm telling you. So cash minus whatever the debt is there. So last year, it was roughly about INR 400 crores. And this year, again, increased to INR 556 crore. And in the coming 3 years, we are expecting a sizable cash flow to come in spite of sizable investment into the CapEx, acquisitions still, we are expecting that the cash flow will be sizable because you have seen the number. This year, we were close to about INR 500 crores or paid. So you can understand the kind of cash flow we are going to generate in the coming time. And majority of the CapEx cycle, I think, will go into end by FY '23. Actually, originally, my plan was FY '22. That is what we communicated to you earlier. But because of the new addition of the businesses and like we added the tank business and now faucet and sanitary ware and now the paint. So because of that, it delayed by 1 year. But otherwise, we were supposed to end our CapEx cycle last year itself. So now this CapEx cycle is going to end next year. And afterwards, I think we will be focusing on the -- more on the utilization side of the business rather than putting more commitment to the CapEx cycle. So whatever amount will be required, that will be on the working capital side. And working capital cycle is also very, very healthy and robust. So I don't think much working capital amount is also required for this company for the growth except the new businesses because new business is -- I have to also learn because I'm also learning the sanitary ware and faucets from Atul ji. Paint, now I will learn from Nitin ji. So based on that, I think we will work out how the working capital cycle is going to span out for these businesses. So this is the opportunity where Astral is there today, you can see plastic pipe is roughly about INR 35,000 crores of industry. My number may be a little bit here and there because I don't have authenticated number, so my team has picked up from some source. So number may not be accurate a little bit here and there. So please excuse for that. So we are continuously increasing our market share into this plastic pipe industry. And you can see from the last 2 years where the industry was degrowing and Astral were delivering the positive growth in the volume terms also in the value terms also. Water tank it is just the beginning of the journey, I can say we just acquired hardly 1% kind of market share. Shortly, we are targeting that next 3 to 5 years plan, we should be at minimum 5% kind of market share. Paint, again, a beginning of the journey, market opportunity INR 55,000 crores, again that last year, the Gem spended around INR 215 crores. So there are also sizable opportunity is there. Adhesive, again, INR 16,000 crore opportunity in India, where our market share is 4% to 4.5% kind of level. So there is also enormous opportunity there. We still touched the INR 1,000 crore mark. You can see the kind the immediate competitor is maybe almost 8x than our size. So we have an ample opportunity into that business also. So we may grow easily 15%, 20% should not be a big challenge to us for the growth into that business also. U.K. is extremely doing well. I still remember, we bought a U.K. company, 80% stake at INR 44 crores. This year, U.K. company has delivered more than INR 44 crores of EBITDA. So you can understand whatever the business where Astral is entering, we seriously look into that and then only we take the position. Without that hard work, we don't just -- for the sake of entering, we want to [ paying ]. Tank, we acquired a company, which top line was hardly INR 20 crores. We doubled the top line INR 43 crore in 1 year. And this year, we are talking about INR 100 crores. Same thing Resinova also when we acquired it was INR 150 crores, INR 160 crores. This year, we crossed INR 700 crores. U.K. also, when we acquired, it was close to about less than INR 100, INR 100 crores, close to INR 100 crores level. And this year, they crossed the INR 300 crores mark. So whatever the acquisition we have done, we have tried to grow them -- but at the same time, our strategy is very clear. We don't want to grow so fast. We don't want double, triple or 4x growth in a shorter period. 15%, 20% CAGR is more important for us. And that is why in every con call, I always communicate to you that we believe in consistency. We don't want havoc kind of growth. Whenever there's abnormal growth that time, I always get more and more under attention, that what is there that all of a sudden growth has started coming. So we always believe in the consistency. And we -- in future also, we will try to see that we maintain that consistency. Valve again, a new opportunity. I intentionally not put the figures of valve because I don't want my competitor will come to know that what Astral is doing into the valve business because it's a very highly, highly specialized business for us and a very, very high value-added business and a high-margin business for us. So that's why I've intentionally not put that. But I can put it the opportunity what is there in the valve. And Sandeep bhai rightly said, there is a sizable opportunity into the export market also in the valve. And many people have started inquiring for that also. But still, we are not in a full fledge in a mood. So right now, we are still focusing on the Indian market. Once we will see the response in the Indian market and how the feedbacks are coming for the quality aspect of this valves and all, then we will open up the market for the export also. Faucet and sanitary ware, I think Atul ji, is there, so you guys can interact with him. There also, we can see there is a huge, huge opportunity there. And today, I was just a couple of days before I come to know from the market only that a leader into this faucets [indiscernible] business, Jaguar is a waiting period of 30 to 45 days. So you can understand the kind of opportunity there. A brand like Astral definitely will do some good business into this segment also because 70% of Astral's dealers are into sanitary ware and the faucet business. So that is what we have done the survey before entering into this business. So we are quite confident that in this segment also, we should do reasonably good. I don't want to commit too much of a number what Sandeep bhai has communicated. I'm a very conservative person. So I don't want to unnecessary give you a too much of bigger picture. That's why I have clearly mentioned in my presentation that we are targeting to be a INR 1,500 crore additional business from our new business activity. But chances are that we can cross that ballpark number also. So key takeaways. Basically, I think most of that we discussed, good demand is there in the system. April, May was also equally good numbers. So nothing to worry on the number point of view. Last year, the April, May base was low. So on that base, I think we may be growing at 80% in these 2 months, but that's not a real number, I can say. So we have to see the coming quarters how it is going to span out because 2-month number on the lower base doesn't make sense. So I don't want to give you the exact number of what we have done. Similarly, unorganized players are continuously under stress, so that will continue with the time also. Again, the polymer prices are fluctuating now on the reverse side of the polymer. So that is going to give more and more pain to the unorganized side of the people. So companies like Astral, who are a cash-rich company, I think they will take the highest advantage. It's not only Astral. Other company can also take the advantage out of that. But it's a good time for the organized player to grow the market share in this kind of environment. As communicated, recently launched products are going to give us a good growth. Normal businesses are already giving us a good growth. So now the turn has come that our new product contribution will start from the current year. The real number will come in the next year. And in my con call also, I said that FY '24 will be the bumper number for Astral, that is what we have planned well in advance and that we already communicated you in the con call also. Few launches will keep coming from the Astral family. So whether it is an adhesive business or whether it is a pipe business we'll keep continuously adding the new product. Our R&D team is continuously behind that, and they are searching many products like Drain Pro, Sandeep bhai rightly said that in the very second month, this month, we are targeting to cross INR 1.5 crore of business. A new product if it is contributing INR 1.25 crores in the second month of the business. So I can easily say this product can be INR 300 crore, INR 400 crore product over a period of time. I'm not coming to you the 5 year or 7 years. But that kind of potentially there for that pipe. And it's quality wise, this pipe is much, much superior than the available pipe in the country, I can say. So that is the strength of that pipe. But only time will say how it is going to spread out over a period of time. East India tank has already been rolled out from the plant and shortly, we are going to open up these pipe factories -- pipe production over there. So hopefully, East is going to contribute reasonably good number. If you see our immediate competitor in East, the #1 guy is doing close to about INR 1,000 crores business in the East. So you can understand the kind of opportunity there in the East where Astral is just doing a beginning of the journey, and we have a [ base ]. It doesn't that we don't have a base, but our base is still small compared with our immediate competitor. So we can do reasonably good growth in the coming time from the Eastern market also. Valve we already discussed, so we are expecting the valve should also to contribute good not only in terms of top line, but in terms of bottom line also, it is going to give us a good growth in the coming time. This is what from my side. Thank you very much, and we all 3 are here for the Q&A session. Thank you. [Presentation]

Thanks, Sandeep bhai, for giving me this opportunity. It's like you mentioned, it's over 3 years since we last met in this kind of a gathering. So a couple of questions, 2 clarifications that I wanted. You mentioned that the Dahej factory would bring 2 new chemistries. Does this mean new product range or a better way to do the existing products?

It is not the new chemistries, some of the chemistries, which are major for us, we are going to shift to the Dahej with the state-of-art plant, which will be highly automized with high safety levels. And most of the raw materials which we use in making of these products are made in Dahej or surrounding areas, which will save us substantial amount on transportation and at present, we buy [ drum ] packings. There we can buy bulk. So when we're buying bulk, the cost of drums as well as drumming and all goes away, so we can have a substantial saving overall on the raw materials.

Second point is on the valves. I believe this would be entirely in-house facility that we would have because I'm sure this is a highly critical item where secrecy, et cetera, would have to be maintained?

It's 100% in-house facility, right, from manufacturing to assembling to testing. So it took time because all these molds were not made in India, which are coming from abroad. And COVID delayed the manufacturing of mold as well as the technical people who had to come from abroad and set up the manufacturing process. So the whole project got delayed by over a year, but now everything is up and running.

Right. Sir, first question now is on the sanity ware and faucets business. While you've given us the opportunity size. Just to understand what is it that we are looking at in terms of initial launch to cater to a pan-India presence to cater to some part of India or how are we looking at this launch?

The launch will be of entire product range. We will be starting from the North middle very low segment, middle segment, upper and higher upper. Higher upper, our focus would be much lesser. We will be focusing on the middle 2 segments with the entire range is coming at 1 go. Astral is not coming with the part of the range, which I never wanted to give a wrong signal to the market. But to make the reach of the product we will go phase-wise. We'll go first with West or 3, 3 or 4, 4 states will open. But what I see from at present, all our key distributors are coming to Goa for the launch. And first time in the meets or somewhere people would send their son or second generation, here all the decision-making makers in the distributors who joined me 20 years back are there. And everyone is excited to take up the product. But not to go in any rush, we will go zone-wise opening and this whole strategy will be opening one zone stabilizing it go to the other zone. So it may take us 6 months to 8 months to get a pan-India coverage.

And would it be correct to assume that this is more or less an outsourced product for us, maybe in more like dedicated suppliers, et cetera, but we are not spending anything on the CapEx?

It is outsourced. There is nothing on the CapEx which we have spent, except the divisions which we have, the executives we have and -- we have a state-of-art huge warehouse where we have R&D some research design facility, we have designers in-house, and we have a testing facility, very high-end testing facility. Every product will come there, will be equally tested in our Q3, and then will go to the market.

Sir, second question is on the paint business. it's considered a very s*** business. A lot of analysts like to talk about this business. We had a paint company which came last year, and it shook the market. It swept the market off its feet. It's a different thing that the price is now less than half than what it used to be. So a couple of questions on this. You are acquiring a company down South you do have ambitions to spread the paint business. Paint has a lot of logistic issues. It's very, very expensive transporting, finished goods, raw materials, so how do you plan to take this company forward, even though you have a slow growth plan, but to have a presence in, say, other than the 5 states to move up to Central India, Western India, you need more capacity because I don't think the present capacity is enough, so what's the game plan?

What is in my knowledge, I'll answer and rest I'll tell Nitin to add because we have just completed the process. And we know that we came into faucets and immediately coming into something has raised a lot of questions for us. And immediately after our announcement next day, somebody comes and announce thousands of crores behind it has crossed has put us more in some tighter spot. As far as I have understood going there in the decorative paint, but you can correct that transportation of paint is not a costly. Transportation of paints to warehouse is not a costly [ offer ]. Second, whatever sales is turnover. We -- Hiranand bhai is arranging a visit to Bangalore to see new facility shortly because we need to clear the waters that what is going around and what exactly is there what we have gone into. So we will show the new state-of-art plant. The capacity, which is there is 4x what they sell at present. We are not going to run to 4x overnight. So at least, as I told that 2 years, we don't foresee any CapEx. Secondly, there is nothing to add in this chemistry. He has every product. We have every product. So there's nothing that new technology has to be done. We have to just keep on improvising and improving, which is a process globally, it goes on. So practically, while we are also slow and conservative, we don't want to throw huge numbers and put any misguiding things. Second, it is a synergy to take adhesive and paint together. We are not here to multiply or multiplication to anything or add multipliers here. We are very focused on our businesses which has been there. So, you have been from the first meet to this meet. And when you start with questions, we are lucky for that year. So you always have to start for the first question. That year goes very good for us. So we'll be lucky this year also. Like adhesives when we acquired the same forum kept on asking that number 1 is there, how will you exist? How will you grow? What will happen? Which chemistries is -- you will grow? At that time also tell, we are not here to compete. One will remain one. One is there to and we salute them for the hard work they have done and they will continue to do the hard work and remain one. We are here to build our own brand and business. And we have done that. We have done a lot of chemistries to somebody had to buy a company to compete and some things happen around in business. So here also, we have a company who has '81 to now known technology sales in the market. We have a base -- we cannot say huge base but a real base. So there are a lot of confidence which comes with the base. And that is what we'll work to build on at a reasonable level. But again, very clear, no cash burning for both the businesses. We have very clearly defined the financials of faucet business that we want not to burn cash. But first year would be tough to give margin numbers, as you all know. But if we don't burn cash, this is a great thing. Here, it's a profitable company, which will be keeping -- adding a growth and with maintaining a margin. So I think we have a very clear mind and strategy around. And we have enough on the plate at present, which on the time we will be working for 5 more years to build this plate. So there will be no addition to the plate. We have everything on the plate now.

Sir, like you mentioned that you are not worried about somebody announcing [ 5,000 ] CapEx to become [ 10,000 ] I think that is just a thought behind you, but no effect on you?

Basically, it is always a thought if you have a confidence as a promoter and as this brand. Bigger clients will come with big numbers. India is a big 1.3 billion people. So I'm going with my own base. If I was not there with him, he would have grown at 15%, which is growing. So relatively, this business is obviously going to grow at 15%. So with my addition, at least I will add something. So I'm not worried about the big numbers, which are going. Everyone would have to work hard and every end user and every distributor -- dealer wants alternates. So there is a market for alternates for everyone and every end user also needs to work on alternates.

Sir last question, Sandeep, Hiranand bhai. Our capacity utilization is around 52-odd percent, and we have quite a bit of capacity. So considering that we are now out of COVID, would it be fair that we would be back to our 75%, 80% in the next 2 to 3 years?

There are high probability that we will come back to that level of 70% utilization or so [indiscernible] new CapEx will be hardly anything. So definitely, that is possible. Secondly, what your question was that I can just add to what Sandeep bhai has communicated that the paint business is a very, very high asset turn business. Normal asset turn, if I'm not wrong, Nitin ji, you can correct me, it should be somewhere around 8x, 8x asset turn?

Yes.

Yes. So even if in future, suppose we are growing a little faster than what we are planning at this stage. And we have to add the CapEx, it will be a very miniscule CapEx. It cannot be a high CapEx Secondly, chemistry-wise, I think, plant-wise paint and additives are more or less same plant. And we are putting a state-of-art plant in Dahej. So we have kept some provisioning for this paint business also. So in future, not now in next 2, 3 years because we have enough capacity right now. But in future, suppose we feel what was your question on logistics side. If we feel that logistic is advantage to our favor, and we want to add some capacity over there. We have a space available with them. So we will spend some amount of money and we can create the CapEx also next 3, 4 years down the line, not now, at least. So it's not a difficult thing to do.

My question is, sir, Astral was largely behind the valves, with the pipes and adhesive business. But now with the tanks and [indiscernible] faucet and paint business, with the paint business, you're coming on valves, can we expect in the future we get more products like consumer durables or something like that on the table is on there because you have huge cash of more than INR 500 crores? And also the CapEx is largely over by FY '23. So can we expect new product coming into the line by next couple of years?

I think a lot of things can be done around this business, which both the segments which we have come in. Either going for anything else, I would go for my own manufacturing facility of faucets or something if I have additional cash rather than going to a new product. We are very, very clear from all the seniors, all the family members, all the people who are there in the company and very, very clear in our thought process that we need to do a lot in these 2 segments for next 5 to 6 years. We will not bring in any surprises at all.

And next question, you talked about Drain Pro, which we recently launched. So yes. So how the pricing is different from the PVC or CPVC pipes?

5% to 7% costly than normal drainage PVC pipeline Type B.

Sir, what is the CapEx for Dahej plant? And that is mainly for the only for the raw material? Or are we putting capacities of PVC pipes or CPVC or adhesives?

No, no, we are putting a plan for the finished product, not for the raw material. Raw material is the added advantage what Sandeep bhai communicated. Like today, Sandeep bhai said that we are buying in a drum. So what happened that buying the product in drum packing is always costlier than buying in the tanker. So now because Dahej we have enough space available with us. So we will buy in a tanker load. And secondly, it will be adjacent to our factory because most of the chemical factories are in Dahej area. Because it's a chemical zone, and our factory is also falling under the chemical zone only. So because of that, it will be added advantage into the raw material side. Otherwise, we are putting up a factory for the finished products only. And CapEx will be roughly about, I think, INR 70 crores, INR 75 crores will be first phase and second phase may be another INR 30 crores, INR 40 crores. So total all put together will be INR 110 crore, INR 120 crore max.

And on the adhesive side, what was the volume growth in last year?

I think it is very difficult to [ arrive ] the volume growth in adhesive side of the business because products are selling in a different measurement. So it is very difficult, some are selling in [ PC ], some are in a KG base, some are in the liter base. So it is very, very difficult to [ arrive ]. But definitely, I can say if I can convert, I can give you the exact number, but maybe close to about 25% kind of volume growth because price rise in the adhesives was very limited last year. This year, we, on the contrary, taken the price rise in the month of April and in the month of May also. So majority was of the volume-driven growth last year.

Yes, I had a couple of questions on cash management. Firstly, is it possible to share that what would be your CapEx in FY '23? And in which areas would this CapEx happen? And as you mentioned, after FY '23, there isn't much CapEx for the next 3 to 4 years. So what would be the maintenance CapEx levels from FY '24 onwards? Secondly, given that you have so much cash, and I think if my numbers are not wrong, with the INR 24 EPS, INR 3 kind of dividend last year, your dividend payout is extremely low. So why are you accumulating so much cash on your balance sheet? Given that you're expecting so much cash flows, why not have a higher dividend payout close to 40%, 50%?

So like as per the commitment with the paint business, we have to pay INR 200 crore immediately to them. So now shortly, we are going to pay INR 200 crores because some paper formalities were pending. So hopefully, this week only we are targeting to pay INR 200 crores to debt. Secondly, sanitary ware and faucet business launch is now. So we need some working capital for that also because we have to do a lot of purchases and we have to keep certain minimum inventory and to some extent, some receivable will also be outstanding in the market. So we need the additional working capital for that. And in addition to that, we need some CapEx money for our East plant because still pipe facilities not still operational. So some CapEx will go into that. And plus regular, you rightly say the maintenance side, also INR 30 crores, INR 35 crores or INR 40 crores goes into that also we keep continually adding the few molds and all. So there also INR 30 crore kind of things will be there. And plus, we are putting up 1 facility in Telangana also, there we already committed INR 25 crores on land. So the first phase we are targeting to put up this tank unit. So there also, we have to spend another INR 25 crores to INR 30 crores for the tank project. So existing projects also, some CapEx outflow is committed and then the additional working capital for this. And then there is an outlook of the paint business to the promoter from where we have taken the 51% stake. So because of that, we have not distributed too much of dividend at this stage. But definitely, once our plants are choked because we have just acquired the paint business. So we have to internally discuss what are our plans and what is the commitment. So based on that, we will be deciding the final cash outflow. So hopefully, in another couple of quarters, we'll be done with all our CapEx plan and all this working capital requirement and all this outlook, the paint also. Then if required, definitely, it is your money, it is not our money. So we have no right to keep money spending, investing in 4% kind of return. You guys are more intelligent to invest that money rather I invest because I'm not an equity guy, neither I have a mandate to put money into the equity. So I'm putting in the liquid fund only so generating only 4%. So definitely, we will give back to the shareholders only or maybe management work out, we may go for the buyback options also.

[indiscernible].

Still not finalized because now the paint and all these things have come, so we have to work out final CapEx. But I think it should be somewhere around INR 150 crore kind of CapEx will be there in the current year all businesses put together.

Sir, congratulations to you and your team for the journey so far. So my question is on the valves business. So you mentioned in the presentation that it's INR 5,000 crore opportunity. Could you explain, is this just a domestic pie? Or does this include the export potential also? Also, what kind of competition do you have in this business both from domestic or export from scenario? And probably the third question is, do you envisage yourself getting the same market share that you have in the pipes business around 10%? And what time do you -- do you think you'll reach there?

So I think valve we have added some potential for the export also. Now coming to your question of 10% of the -- this whatever the market opportunity, it will take a lot of time. It is not easy to acquire this INR 500 crores of revenue from this new business, there's always a journey. So it will -- year-on-year, it will keep increasing. But definitely 10% is a difficult task in the next 3 to 5 years' time. Yes, over a longer period, you can think on that line, but at least not in the immediate basis. Now as far as the competition is considered, I think George Fishers and all other companies who are selling these valves in Indian market, majority are imported valves. No one is manufacturing in India, all the specialized valves. So most of our competitor will be the overseas multinational giants only. So it will not be a local people. And too much of demand is there in India also close to about, I think, couple of thousand crore opportunity will be India itself.

So you mentioned that you are expanding in rural areas in some of the states, especially Gujarat or Rajasthan. So what kind of differential growth you're seeing there in pipe segment in rural areas, if you can highlight?

At present, this project started just 6 months back. As far as I can understand, if we are at present doing INR 100 of sale. If we cover the rural India, at least we can do 20% of it from rural. So rural is huge, but rural is something which takes its own time to develop one is more ruled by the local brands; second, service; third is the confidence of getting the material on time; and fourth is the major thing is that their cash cycles because we have kept the rural market as advanced payment only. And somebody in rural retail wants some material, he has to go on our special app, which is given to him punch the order and make the payment then only go. We don't want to create too many points where we have to go around them for the money. So we have made a complete system. Yes, it is working very well. By next 1 year, we can exactly quantify and let you know what exactly rural opportunity will come for us in the piping business.

Sir, this is only for pipes or this will -- rural, you will do other products also same channel?

At present, we have only started with pipes. We will study and we can add things as we have a whole family of products, which is in front of you. But at least for 1 year to stabilize, we'll only be going with pipes. And that too, we have opened the fast-moving products. We are not getting like somebody wants and no specialized product will go to rural. So the segment is the PVC drainage, the PVC agriculture base, the CPVC and the plumbing PVC. These are the only 4 segments we cater to the rural market and the water tanks. And these are the only moving products in the rural market.

Sir, your paint business INR 215 crore top line, [Foreign Language] balance sheet [Foreign Language]?

So balance sheet, there are 2 elements. One is the operating part of the balance sheet and secondly, the nonoperating part of the brand. That is why we are going for the demerger exercise, and the demerger will take place by the year-end. So balance sheet side [Foreign Language] close to about INR 340 crores or INR 350 crores kind of will be there, all put together, I'm telling you 1 side of the -- so effectively, if you work out then CapEx was roughly about INR 40 crore or something like gross block is there INR 40 crores, INR 45 crores is gross block in there. And then there is a working capital and all. So later days are close to about 60 -- 55 days right now. Inventory will be another 30, 40 days kind of inventory will be there and then some creditors are also there. I don't have an exact handy number with me -- so once this -- all this demerger exercise and all we are going to complete, then we will be able to show you the exact number. But right now the [Foreign Language] will be like that. And still you need any specific number you can call me anytime, I will give you that number too.

I had a couple of follow-up questions. Now you, as of now report numbers along 2 businesses, pipes and adhesives when you report numbers. Now going forward, there are going to be tanks, valves, sanitary ware and faucets and paints. So will you be adding 4 new subdivisions and reporting numbers or tanks will be part of pipes and others also get somewhere else, so how will the reporting happen?

So to be honest, we've not still finalize how reporting going to work out. But definitely, we will prefer still not a final decision, but still, we will prefer they will make a plastic as a 1 category. And then sanitary ware and the faucet will be the another category and the paint will be the [ other ] and adhesive will be the third category. This will be the broader category. But still, we are internally discussing and we have to see how the statutory guidelines permit in India for the segmental reporting. So we have to study that also. And based on that, we will finally take the call. But definitely, we will give you the number. From that, you can get some sense of top line and EBITDA of respective division. That is what we will see that how best way we can communicate may not be a segment then we will be giving it into the presentation or somewhere so that you can get a sense out of that.

So among the new businesses, last year, you had only tanks, right, which was around INR 45 crores revenues?

Yes.

Okay. Now last question is in terms of the paints business, from which quarter will it start getting consolidated into the numbers?

So it will start from the Q1 itself because as per the India's guidelines, the moment you take the controlling stake and board seat over there, you have to consult may not be equity transfer. But as per the India's guidelines, they will define the controlling stake. So we have already agreed and signed for the controlling stake. So we have to immediately take into the consolidation. So Q1 onwards, it will start coming.

What was the profit of the paints entity last year?

So I think we have given the EBITDA level number and the PAT was close to double digit, close to 10% kind of level.

I have a first question on your network expansion, if you can give some detail for network expansion, particularly region-wise for FY '22? And what is the planning for next 1 to 2 years?

I think region-wise we don't share the network, but definitely, the overall number we have given in the presentation. So you can see from our last presentation and the current presentation from there, you will get the exact number. Even I don't remember the last year, what was the exact number. But I think in the presentation, it is there. In the last year presentation also, we have given the network number and this year is also given. Only thing the difference, which I am seeing today, now the numbers are more authenticated because now we are doing the KYC of each and every people, whether it's a plumber, whether it's a carpenter, whether it is a dealer now because we have a robust systems in the organization. So based on that, now we have authenticated data. Earlier, numbers were okay, but I can't say with the 100% accuracy that these are the [Foreign Language] number. But now this is the change now with this technology advantage, we are having the authenticated data. So you can rely definitely on these data.

So what would be growth for next 1, 2 years, any ballpark indication?

So it depends what products we are entering to what geography we are taking entry. Based on that, it will be delayed. There is no mindset of the management that we won every year this much of the increment. That is not a mindset of the management. We only focus which product we want to enter in particular geography, whether the existing who are our benchmarking with -- which competitor is there, what is his network. There are so many parameters are there within which we are working. So there is no mindset of the management that we want 10%, 5% increment into the network. But definitely, I can say the way brand Astral is getting stronger and stronger in the market, this reach will keep continuously increasing over a period of time. And now from 8 June, we have a final hearing with the NCLT for this merger of Resinova and Astral, with that merger also, there is a high synergy between 2, I think, dealers network. So we have to see how best way we can utilize that thing, and we can further grow into that segment. And -- or maybe you can say the dealer network also. So there is a high, high synergy is there post-merger. So we are internally debating how best way we can utilize this thousands of data today, we are sitting with it. We have geotagged each and check every dealers of Astral. So this all is going to help us in the long-term, but it's too early to comment on that thing, let the merger process get over. And post that, all the seniors will sit and work out the strategy and we'll see how best way we can utilize this data.

So second question is on ESG. As we are chemical and polymer industry, 1 of the highest polluting segment. So what is the road map for next 4, 5 years on ESG side, sir?

So I think last con call also, we have declared our result of the ESG also. And you will be happy to know that Astral much ahead in the ESG requirement. We -- though it was not compulsory last year, we've published the sustainability report and our score was higher than the industry average. So we score around 39 or something. So our score was even -- current year, it is still not published, I'm sure it will be even a little better than that. Now as far as your comment on the polluting industry, sorry, we are not discharging water. So it is not a polluted industry. So we are not a chemical which other chemical companies are like that. So we don't discharge the water. So it is not falling under that kind of category. So we are self-consuming and recycling the same water.

I actually wanted to ask about your pipe segment we have seen roughly around 10% volume growth during the year, which is much, much better than the leader. But what I would like to understand as we had higher share of CPVC because of which we could grow much higher than the peers. And the question would be, if I look at last 4 to 5 years, it would have been broadly 9% to 10% kind of a CAGR growth in terms of volume versus pre-COVID level, we generally used to report double-digit growth rate. What do you think has been the reasons for coming back to that 9%, 10% growth? And when do we see this growth moving back to those double-digit levels that you used to see? And if at all, you could give some industry level numbers in the sense that how much industry would have grown versus your growth?

So I think compared to industry, we are still better. We are still growing at a close to about double digit, 9.5% to 10% kind of level. If you see the last 2 years, I don't have an authenticated number of the current year, but last year, industry de-grew by almost 16% to 17%. When the industry was degrowing by 16%, 17%, we delivered 4% volume growth last year. So it is a clear message that we are gaining the market share. In the current year also, we are of the view that the industry might have grown hardly 1% or 2%. Again, that our growth is still 9.5% or 10%. So this year also, we have gained the market share. Secondly, you are right. We are predominantly a leader into the CPVC market. So we are growing reasonably good into the CPVC side. But it was unfortunate that we acquired the REX company and post-acquisition, because of this COVID and all the government spending becomes standstill. So because of that, we sizably degrow into that, but you are seeing the number which are the consolidated number. So because of that, it looks that Astral has grown only 10%. If I remove this thing or you remove the -- you can say the agriculture de-growth or you can say that you can remove the column pipe because the PVC price has gone up substantially higher. So people move to the HDPE kind of level. So because of that, it looks at 10%. But if I remove this abnormal region, then the existing business is still 15% plus. And that is what previously we used to grow. And now in the future also, we are quite confident that if now the industry will start performing, if the industry will grow 5%, 7% or 8%, which is a historically GDP multiply by 1.5x. Normally, the plastic pipe industry has grown. So if that is the case, I think we will be back to our normal numbers of 15% kind of volume growth. But still, market conditions are not that lucrative. I can't say with a high conviction that will be like that. But we are aiming to grow like at that level. And it looks that now the way ready inventory has gone down in the system, so new construction activity will start. We have to pray that commodity price come down and that will give the further support to the volume growth because till the commodity prices will remain high, the construction activities are growing, but not at the pace which is required to be grown. So we have to see how the commodity cycle is going to work out. PVC has already come down close to about INR 120. So Reliance may be announcing tomorrow, day after or another INR 5, INR 6 cut or so. So ultimately, it will be benchmarked with the imported price. CPVC a lot of short supply there, so hardly any possibility of downward turn in the near-term. But yes, definitely, ultimately, the local supply has to come in the system. So like when the local supply will come from make money or maybe [ DCW ] and all, then the CPVC will be stable polymer then or maybe a little downward trend. If that is the case, I think we can grow our volume much, much faster greater than what we are growing at present.

I think let's say 1 to 1 now. And if there are any other questions, we can answer one-to-one. It was already 2 hours have gone. Is there one last -- okay, we'll take the last one.

So sir, I have a query on the sanitary ware. Like which geography you are first focusing on and what kind of a product like a premium or economy segment you are going to cater?

We are having the complete range from economy to premium. And the focus would be on the -- all the segments, but the -- you cannot say the downward economy, but the middle 2 ranges that will be focused, which has a good market share, actually, why to focus. And I think we'll start from West our launch and move to other parts of the country.

And next question, sir, related to your earlier products, you had launched PEX and [ silencio ] pipe, how they are doing now?

PEX, we have launched, but PEX we import and sell in our brand. They are selling well, but we are not yet present much focused. Because of this COVID, we cannot meet consultants and market. So because of that, the activity was very low. And still, it will take some time for us to do complete marketing activities on this. And the silencio pipe is doing good. I said in my presentation also, that silencio pipe is growing at a good rate.

And when valve is going to report the numbers?

Valve already the launch is done, already is available in the market. Yes, we have a range. We have already displaced, I think some of it.

Anything not reporting right now in the numbers?

See, everything, we will not report segment-wise, valve and then tank and otherwise, so we'll have to make a whole page of report. So we will -- it will come in the plastic segment. So thank you, everyone. Thanks. We look forward to again seeing you next year and with some flying numbers and hard work. Thank you very much.