Astral Limited (ASTRAL) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Thank you, everyone, for joining us for the meet for the last fiscal's results. And I know there will be many questions, but I would first start briefly to apprise you about the business. To start with the piping business. Last year, we have given a growth of close to 24%. As you are very well aware, all of you, that Astral is mainly concerned with the infrastructure industry. Our very few products go in the government infrastructure products -- projects. We are more on the building space or the private infrastructure industry. Still, our CPVC has grown at a good pace. PVC has equally grown, and our new products have also grown at a substantial pace. The fire sprinkler business, which we have been talking for many years, has grown at a very good pace last year and a lot of acceptance have come from various markets. There are certain key approvals in fire system and highest of that is the UL approval. And all of the Astral products have seeked UL approval in last year. And this has helped us to get bigger projects, especially from good five-star hotels, which have come from the international -- which have come from abroad, we have given into Marriotts and JW, also Marriott and the normal Marriotts and many other hotel chains we have been supplying now for the fire sprinkler system. Especially the plants are concerned, Guwahati plant is now fully operational. We started with water tanks. And now we are making PVC pipes and CPVC has also started recently. The Cuttack plant is completely operational now with CPVC and all the product -- all the pipe products made from the Cuttack plant. Two new plants are under construction. Work has started in a big way for our plant at Hyderabad and work will start shortly for the Kanpur plant. So these 2 plants will be completed and will be operational before this fiscal year. So we'll be adding these 2 plants apart from the last 2 plants, which we added. Capacity and other details Hiranand bhai and Kairav they will be providing. We are, at present, working with OPVC. In the third quarter, we'll be starting our OPVC manufacturing, first from Ahmedabad plant and then in next 1 to 1.5 years, we will have a OPVC machines at various plants throughout India. You all know that OPVC is today taking over from the ductile iron in a big way in the infrastructure projects. The acceptance is huge. The market is growing. The difference between others and Astral is, that Astral has its own technology, its own type of machine. We are not dependent on any company where we have to give royalty, we have to give any brand fees, we have to buy fittings from there. We'll be making our own fittings and above that, the old technology will be completely in the ownership of Astral. The CapEx of our OPVC, which will be much lower than the CapEx done by the competitors because this has been worked developed and done by Astral. We will be coming into Pex, aluminum Pex with our own machines, which will be also be operational by the last quarter of this fiscal. We are also working on various other products, especially polyolefins. And we would be launching a few new products, which we would only be disclosing in the second or the third quarter in next -- this fiscal some and maybe in the next fiscal, some of these products. This will help Astral to complete -- almost complete portfolio of the piping industry, which is available globally and will be available within India. Lately, especially in last few days, the PVC scenario has completely changed. The PVC price started going upward. The availability of PVC is in short supplies. The price has gone up last week going up this week, and it will -- the trend will continue. So there is a very, very positive demand on PVC come up and we'll continue to be there for next few months or maybe the whole year because of various reasons. CPVC also may be going upward because there is anti-dumping duty which is proposed and if it comes, then there will be upward trend, which will be, again, a positive thing for use. Both of these things will bring in a growth of 20% plus, our guidance is always very honest and we always try to over perform that, but it will give a good growth. And if this happens, we are planning 2 more locations to zero down and start work on plants at the end of this fiscal or next fiscal, which may be -- a decision may be faster even depending on the demand scenario. Tank business has been now growing at a very fast pace. This year itself, we were very close to INR 150 crores and our continuous growth of 20% plus is there in tank business. As we start 2 more new facilities, we will continue to keep our growth base on the tank business. And tank business in next 2 to 3 years will be a substantial business and a substantial number will be -- and margin, bottom line will be given by tank business. Now coming to the adhesive business. Everyone has a great concern on the growth of adhesive, especially the EBITDA of adhesive. And again, a detailed explanation will be given by Hiranand bhai in the financial numbers. There is no concern on adhesive business. Let me tell you, our plant at Dahej is fully operational. We have started getting a lot of benefits from Dahej plant in the last quarter. But Dahej plant has reduced our cost of raw material because now we buy in bulk. It is automated plant, a close-look system, so the efficiencies have gone up. The consistency of product is there. People have found our product very consistent lately because of the process controls, which we have in the automization and Dahej plant is at full operational, and we'll be shortly shutting one plant in adhesive at Kanpur because we need to give that plant back to the original owner as per the agreement -- terms of agreement. So one plant operational cost will come down in adhesive business in this quarter. And Dahej plant gets fully operational and automated plant is there. The challenge which you see in the last quarter and the whole fiscal has come from our U.K. operations. U.K. operations, the price drops deeply in most of the raw material last year. And because of that, the U.K. operation has not grown in value terms. Also the U.K. operation has also not grown in the EBITDA margins because of the drop of the raw materials. So again, Hiranand bhai will be splitting these numbers and giving the complete explanation on the margins and growth in the adhesive business in India, and adhesive business in U.K. U.K. business is back on track. And this year, we will have a 10% plus growth and the margins will be also normalized in this year. As I say, the piping business, the value growth is less, the volume growth is more because of the fall of raw material price. Similarly, in adhesive also, the value growth was a challenge, the volume growth is even higher, which you see the growth in value and the volume, volume is even much, much higher than that. Similarly in U.K. also. Now coming to the faucet and ceramic ware business. I attended almost 5 to 6 funds and people have 2 things to ask me: one is faucet ceramic and second is paints. So I'll clarify as much as I can and rest, you can also take over in the question and answers. Faucet ceramic ware business is 1.5 years old. And faucet ceramic ware business took its own time to stabilize, to grow. But if you go with the last quarter of this fiscal, we crossed -- almost touched INR 25 crores of this business with a good margin. And if I go to this fiscal, as we started off in April and now in May, there is a substantial growth coming in the business. There is a lot of acceptance of the product, which has come. A lot of showrooms have started. A lot of distributors have started. A lot of builders have started accepting it and they are putting in the projects. We have also changed our marketing team. We have now -- the marketing is headed by Mr. Khurana, who has come from Roca Parryware. So a lot of changes have been done in the manpower changes in the faucet ceramic business. We have added 1 -- 2 more ranges, which were very well accepted in the Plumbex, Mumbai, it was displayed and the same day we booked huge orders, and these 2 ranges were missing in our portfolio, which were added. So now we have a huge range of products. We have complete product. We have a distribution system which is growing. We have products which are well accepted. And last year, we closed to around INR 60 crores to INR 63 crores. This year, we'll be anywhere about INR 125 crores to INR 150 crores between that. And this year, faucet ceramic business will be breakevening or making some profit. So we have started some soft branding activities in faucet ceramic business, and we will continue that soft marketing and branding activities, especially the branding activities and we are going to bring faucet business into breakeven or single-digit margin, at least in this fiscal. But we'll be crossing INR 125 crores and closing anywhere between INR 125 crores and INR 150 crores. So there is a substantial jump in the business in this fiscal for faucet ceramic ware. Coming to paints. Paints, we have degrown in last year, not much, but we have degrown. We have closed around INR 200 crores. The reason is that before -- in the last fiscal, the owners of Gem were running the company as per the agreement, terms of agreement of the company which we bought over that they had to perform, they had to give EBITDA and on that, they're further valuation dependent. So now as we took over the 30% from there last year, when we are now 80% owner of the company, we are on the driving seat. So we made massive corrections in the company. The first correction was to bring in systems of SAP and the HODs and many corrections at the plant and sales in multiple levels and the biggest correction we did is the cash cycles. Most of the dealers have 90, 120 days payment terms, which Astral has brought down to 60 days. And this took a toll on the business to some extent. And obviously, it will take. The same thing happened when we acquired Resinova, at that time, again, the same concern was there. People were expecting [Foreign Language]. We can proudly say we are the #2 Indian company in adhesive and sealants. So we have delivered, we have grown. We have succeeded in adhesive sealants. Similarly, we will be growing and succeeding in paints also. Yesterday only, we have launched complete range of product in Astral Paints brand. We have the packaging line there. So we are launching Astral Paints in Ahmedabad on Thursday. We will be starting selling Astral Paints with Gem Paints in south in Karnataka, Tamil Nadu and Kerala and in the state of Gujarat from this month-end. We will be adding state by state in paint. We assure you that we won't be doing any cash burning or you can say, branding or you can say margin EBITDA washed out or nothing, we would stick to 14%, 15% EBITDA. We are not here to do magic. But next year, our target is INR 300 crores plus around that in paints and we'll deliver this number. And we are confident about delivering this number and even growing at a better pace in paints. So there is no concern about anything which will go wrong in paints as we did in adhesives, but we don't want to overshoot the numbers. We don't say that we'll be overshooting numbers and we'll go pan-India and we'll be doing huge branding or will be overspending somewhere and we'll be creating a paint brand. Nothing like that. Astral is brand, known brand, it is their right on the container, people see it and people trust it. That's how we'll be building our paint business. Rest, we will take over in the question-and-answer session. Thank you very much. And I'll now tell Kairav to take over from here. Thank you very much.

Good evening, everyone. This is our presentation that we will later upload on our website, and we will circulate to you guys. It is loaded with a lot of information, so I'm just going to skim through it because if I were to tell you everything that's in the presentation, it will take a lot of time. At the end of my presentation, I would like to -- I will spend a bit more time talking about our loyalty program and our initiatives with regard to our IT platforms that are transforming the company. So presentation may, I'll just skim through basically. And later, we'll upload the same. So don't worry if the slides are moving a bit fast. So just a glance on what we have achieved in our 25 years of operation, around 9,000 employees, exporting to 31 countries, 42 depots across businesses, 25 manufacturing units across businesses, across countries, more than 5 lakh tonnes of capacity across businesses and more than 3,300 distributors across India and access to more than 2 lakh dealers across India. Actually, this is the core strength of Astral. If you look at the distribution footprint of the brand. It enables us to launch newer categories and newer products and to spread our wings in the market into unchartered territories and unchartered product categories. We never thought that we would get a positive response for a lot of the products that we launched. And once we started getting that, it only enabled us to become more confident in launching different categories going ahead. So for example, we started out with CPVC. We were a pretty late entrant in the PVC product category. There were many market leaders before us. But our distributor strength enabled us to succeed in PVC. Then products like water tanks, you can consider us a very late entrant in this water tank category also. But because of the strength of the brand and the distribution strength, we were able to succeed in that. Then came the category of adhesives. Again, the network of Astral along with the network of Resinova combined enabled us to grow much faster. The same thing we are seeing in the bathware business also. There has been a lot of interest by our network to stock and sell this product. And the similar type of interest can also be seen for our paint product as well, which we launched yesterday. A lot of the distributors were present. A lot of them have shown interest in starting this particular product in their firms. This is the corporate structure of Astral. 80% holding in Astral coatings, which was formerly known as Gem Paints, 95% in Seal IT U.K, 50% in Kenya JV, which is not undergoing any business operations at the moment and 100% -- Seal IT U.K. owns 100% of Seal IT U.S. These are the high-growth categories that we operate in, pipes, water tanks, adhesives and sealants, construction chemicals, bathware, paints, specialized valves and infrastructure products. The ninth high-growth category, which we will launch later this year is the OPVC product line, which we have declared in our annual press release. We have ordered 4 OPVC lines, which will be set up across India. OPVC is a replacement for ductile iron pipes. And there is a good future for this product category and product line in India. And we are seeing a good response for OPVC pipes and good demand for OPVC from water supply companies. And since the future looks promising, we have committed to -- we are committed to enter into this product category and to grow it. We were the first to introduce CPVC in India. We were the first to introduce lead-free uPVC pipes for portable water and lead-free column pipes for underground water in India. We were the first to introduce low-noise products in India, and we are the market leaders when it comes to our low-noise polypropylene piping systems, which consists of Silencio and Drain Pro products. We were the pioneers in introducing double-wall corrugated and infrastructure products in India. Our pipe innovations, we cannot list all of them, but we have done a lot of innovations in the piping category. We were the first to introduce water tanks with NSF certification in India. And first, to introduce tanks with copper shield in them. So our tanks have active copper-free radicals inside them to kill viruses. Just our brief journey. I'm not going to cover all of it because it will take time. But from 2021 onwards, we introduced our water tanks, we expanded a lot of product portfolio by also introducing few adhesive products like Bondtite Pro. 2022, we did a launch for the polypropylene Drain Pro piping systems. The Bhubaneswar plant got operational. We got into bathware. We got into paints. 2023 was our 25th anniversary. And 2023 was also when we commissioned Dahej adhesive plant, and then we launched our ball valves. And we were -- we also launched our rain gutters systems, which is known as the RainWay. 2024, we launched a product known as PTMT water taps. PTMT water taps are basically plastic water types, molded water taps and we have seen a good demand for this. Our channel sells a lot of this. Earlier, there was a company known as WaterTec that used to be the market leader in this segment. But now there have been a lot of unorganized players who have also been operating into this segment, but there is a demand for branded good quality PTMT taps. And this is a very good product line for Tier 2, Tier 3 markets, especially markets where they cannot afford the chrome-plated, brass taps. So in the rural markets, also in slums, in chawls, wherever the consumer is extremely price conscious. But it is a molded product and it has good margins. We continue to be certified as a good place, not a good, but a great place to work. It is, I think, third or fourth year running that we have gotten this certification. 2024, we also launched Astral Paints. These are some of our record -- awards and recognitions. 2024 FY '24, we saw a third consecutive Great Place to Work, Most Trusted Brand in the piping segment for the sixth year running, Most Desired Pipe Brand, Most Preferred Place to Work and Astral Bondtite and Astral Pipes, both got recognized as Super Brands for 2023-'24. Astral Pipes has been a super brand since the past 5 years. We also got several green certifications like Green Pro certification for our CPVC product and Green Pro certification for our Astral Drain Pro as well. So these are some of our core competencies and some of them are firsts, I'm not going to cover much of this. These are some of our pipes and water tanks manufacturing units. Santej is our mother plant, followed by Dholka, Ghiloth, Hosur. Jamnagar is our faucets facility. Sangli is our infra product facility. Aurangabad is our water tank and PVC pipe facility. Sitarganj is our infra facility. Bhubaneswar is our pipes plant and Guwahati is also our pipes plant. Adhesives and sealants manufacturing facilities; Seal IT U.K., Seal IT U.S., Santej, Rania, Unnao, and Dahej. Paint manufacturing units; Peenya, Dabaspet and Sompura. These are our upcoming facilities for pipes; Hyderabad with 70,000 metric tons in 2 phases and then Kanpur with 60,000 metric tons, which will also be in 2 phases. This is an overview of all our manufacturing facilities. It shows that we have a largely pan-India footprint. Central and East are some -- are places where we need to develop more manufacturing footprint. So going ahead, it will be a core focus, especially MP, Chhattisgarh side and also West Bengal side. . This is a list of our plants, depots and offices across India. By offices, it means sales and marketing offices. Our head office is in Ahmedabad, and we have a secondary office out here in Bombay as well. This is our adhesives & paints business office and depot list. . These are some of our plumbing business offerings. So plumbing systems, we have CPVC, uPVC. We are also working to launch Pex composite pipes. Drainage; we have Foamcore, we have Drain Pro, we have Silencio, we have Aquasafe, we have Drain Master. We have a lot of products in the drainage segment as well. And in the agri segment, we have agri pipes, column pipes, casing pipes. We have full range of conduit pipes as well. We have massive solutions when it comes to industrial piping, in CPVC, uPVC, both along with industrial ball valves. We have our state-of-the-art, highly certified fire protection system, which is seeing excellent traction in the Indian market since the past 12 months. And then we have urban infra products like double-wall corrugated pipes and TeleRex pipes for the cables and also TeleRex pipes for Plus+StiRex pipes for post-tensioning ducts. These products, post-tensioning ducts products were used in the Atal Setu by L&T when it was being constructed. We have a wide range of solvent cements, in the Weld-On brand, Solvobond brand, Amrow brand, Truzo brand, Pipe Fix, a lot of brands, and we are the market leaders when it comes to solvent cements in India. We have a lot of specialized fittings as well and ancillary products like clamps, hangers and insulation materials. These are some of our specialized valves; true union valves, single union valve and industrial ball valves. This is our PTMT range. Our water tanks range, we have tanks in different capacities from 500 liters to 10,000 liters. We have them in roto-molded configuration as well as blow-molded configuration and in various colors. We have also launched our channel drains known as Channel Pro. These are developed in-house and 100% made in India. Earlier, we used to sell this under Hauraton. But now we have decided to make our own channels, and they are made as per international standards with different load-bearing capacities. And we have also gotten a very good response for our channel drain products. And lastly, like I said, we are going to launch OPVC pipes for high-pressure water supply. You can play this video. [Presentation]

Normally, when you have PVC pipes, they crack when someone is using a hammer against them. And they break when someone will move such a large load over them. So compared to that, our Drain Pro pipes are very resilient. They have a very high impact strength. And this is one of the reasons why they are largely being accepted in the market. And we see a lot of market being shifted from traditional PVC SWR piping systems to PP piping systems, PP drainage systems because these pipes are very resilient when it comes to cracking and breaking either during installation, on sites or in transport. Just some snippets from our 25th anniversary celebrations that we had in Jaipur. It was one-time event we had kept for our key customers and key employees to reward them for their service and dedication to the brand and to the company. These are some of our branding initiatives, our cricket branding, our film branding. Now coming to bathware. It is 100% made in India, 100% designed also in India and in-house. We have a very strong aftersales service. And the best thing is that we have designed our products in such a way that the aftersales service is very easy with the use of minimum number of spares. So we have tried to ensure that all the spares that are being used in our bathware product are similar so that when it comes to any sort of repair, the plumber does not need to carry too many spares with him. And we are spreading our distribution network in this particular product category in a very rapid manner. These are some of our bathware products. Gloria is our base range product, then comes Premia, then Imperia, and Celestia is our top-of-the-line premium product. These are some of the bathware branding initiatives. . This is -- so basically, Astral Foundation is the CSR arm of Astral. And these are the 6 categories that we usually support; education, environment, support to disable people, infrastructure development in communities around our plants, health care and wildlife conservation. So these are some of our CSR initiatives. These are our sustainability initiatives. We have increased our CSR spend this year by 23%. We have increased our training man hours by 32%. We have increased our solar capacity. Energy consumption through renewable source was 18% and 20% in Santej and Dholka plants. Green certifications for various products. And ISO and IMS certifications as required by ESG as well. So before I hand over to Saumya for Adhesives & Paints business, I would like to show a few films about our loyalty program, which is known as ALP. [Presentation]

So this program has done wonders for us. It has connected the dealer and plumber community with the brand and especially with all the initiatives that we have taken, including them, in the debt insurance policies and then offering them direct to bank transfer when it comes to point redemption as well as different types of rewards. So people have bought cars, people have bought motorcycles, people have bought jewelry. There have been many plumbers who lost their lives due to accidental debt, whose families have also gotten insurance claims from this particular program. So this is a program that is seeing increased subscription Y-o-Y basis, and it is a very positive sign for the brand that more and more dealers and plumbers are joining this program, and it will be a game changer. And mark my words, every pipe company will come up with such loyalty programs in the future because we have again been a trendsetter when it comes to loyalty programs. So with that, I will hand over the floor to Saumya for the Adhesive and Paints business. Thank you.

Good evening, all of you. I'm Saumya. This is my first time. Usually, I'm sitting right there every year from past 8 years. This is the first time I'm addressing all of you. I handle the adhesives and paints side of the business, and I joined Astral in 2014 when the acquisition of Resinova and Seal IT in U.K. happened. And I took 1.5 years, 2 years to just get to know adhesives, chemistry, what it is. Before I start the presentation, I just want to give you a brief on adhesives because every time I tell my father, you are pro piping from heart and now we have adhesives also. So [Foreign Language] that's why I wanted to talk today. So adhesives proudly, we can say today that we acquired Resinova at 190-200, and we are in the 4-digit club in 8 years because Astral took the command in 2016 full-fledged with Parekh Saab exiting the organization, and that's where we started taking decisions in terms of day-to-day business and restructuring the business. So big thanks to the team, everyone who has given their best in this journey, and we'll keep going forward. . What did we do in adhesives in last 8 years? We strengthened manufacturing, setting up a special R&D facility because adhesive is dependent on the application of the business and not just it's -- for example, pipes, which is our mother is water is one application. It does water. Adhesives, every product, there is a change in application. So understanding that business, understanding the different substrates, which the adhesives will cater going forward, was the key for us. Change in that mindset was a key for us in terms of how we should restructure the adhesive business. And so that was a major journey we did. We got good scientists. We got good chemists on board who are redefining a few substrates in the Indian market for the first time what we are doing at Astral in terms of few applications. Then we understood sales and marketing. Well, as you know, that now it is a business for us, we have segmentized into 4 to 5 selling verticals. M&T business, which is our core retail business, selling repair and maintenance products, adhesives, construction chemical business, which is waterproofing business. Wood is our wood working adhesives, white glue. Industrial is our B2B segment. And this year itself, we are going through a big launch of our rural division for the first time, New Bharat, which we are launching in additive business, catering into the rural parts of India by clubbing all the M&T, CC wood businesses into a single sales channel catering into the rural parts of India. So this year, we have launched New Bharat, which will help us penetrate to the 2,000 to 10,000 populations, exactly statistics I won't go into, but that's how we have planned to how to go into the depths of Indian market and cater to the mass of India because adhesive is a retail business. Why new New Bharat? So we understood that when we acquired Resinova, when we acquired this business, it was born from rural. This business was born from rural. Then Astral strength, our strength, the brand strength, we made our mark in urban. We are still a long way to go. But we knew that we have that rural penetration, we have that rural data. And at the same time, these segmentizing teams, why not create 1 sales channel where we can reconsolidate and cater all 3 businesses together in New Bharat, which will give a lot of strength to the organization, and the pilot results are excellent. So in terms of sales and marketing, marketing also, we have put in a lot of efforts in terms of setting up new chemistries, new substrates. As you know that Indian adhesive market has been dominated by one player for last 40 years. We are seen as the top player in the Indian market now. not just by our numbers, but the way we are moving, the way we are leading the legacy, we are leading the legacy of creating new applications in adhesives. Still the application of adhesives in the Indian market is at the tip. There is still a big iceberg in the bottom, which is still not explored, which is exploding developed nations, which is still being developed in Indian market, which we are entering into. And also our U.K. U.S. business helps because they are present in the developed market, even if what trends are going there, what substrate trends are going there, it helps us. So just a few examples. We work closely with fiber optics market. We work with motors. Now we are into one of the manufacturing lines for Tata Motors in terms of our silicon application. So there are very big, big applications which we are breakthroughing, researching, understanding where I'm just seeing that adhesive business is still -- it's going to be a great journey for Astral when it comes to adhesives. So as I covered New Bharat briefly, tap into the massive untapped market potential of rural India by establishing a unified presence under the New Bharat umbrella. 69% of India's population residing in rural areas as per 2011 census. Reduced competition and opportunity to establish strong brand presence. I was in the rural parts of Ahmedabad last week, and I went to one of the outlets, and I was just talking to the dealer. And the way the rural dealers talk to you, they want the business, they want company to approach them. They want company to talk to you. City [Foreign Language], there are 10 customers lined up. So even me as an owner, if I go there, he's like, sir, wait for a minute. [Foreign Language], let me finish it, then I'll give you time. But rural, they give you space, they give you a chance and they are more humble in terms of accepting newer companies, newer entrants, and they will give you that place to prove yourselves in the rural market. And again, it's lesser brand conscious than urban. So it gives us a big edge to just spearhead into the rural. One unified brand identity and distribution channel for Astral's wood adhesives, construction, chemical and maintenance products, I covered that. Leverage the strong brand equity of Bondtite to enter wood adhesives segment in rural markets. So again, India's 40% market is still the white glue. And I'm sure you guys know that. You guys know your figures for sure. And the breakthrough we are getting with the white glue in the rural is absolutely amazing. We have set our qualities. We had some hiccups in terms of the formulation in understanding the RMC and understanding how exactly we set the whole structure in place. But I can confidently tell now that after 2 years or 2.5 years, COVID also spoiled a little bit of the launch, but now we are quite confident in terms of our approach in terms of bringing Bondtite as an umbrella brand and then what we did was having multiple brands, Bondtite takes the umbrella brand and then epoxy, which is our mother product, where we fight against foreign players and big players. Then we put PVA under the Bondtite brand as well. Cyanoacrylates, which is the super glue in Bondtite, and synthetic rubber chemistry. So all 4 chemistries go under Bondtite brands. So it gives us leverage to do branding. Also with lesser costs, we brand Bondtite. And that's the tagline which we want to use. Kairav and his team and Yogi and everyone, 'India ke alag-alag materials ko jode ekdum tight, Bondtite.' So that's the tagline we want to take forward and create Bondtite as the next-generation adhesive for the Indian market, and that is the legacy we want to give to the Indian adhesive market. So that is the vision and journey we have in terms of Bondtite. Cross-selling opportunities by offering a diverse yet complementary product portfolio, comprehensive solutions catering to rural consumer needs under a single umbrella. So these are just all benefits and highlights. Established strong brand visibility and recognition in rural markets,, capture market share by being an early mover in underserved regions, diversify revenue streams and reduce dependency on urban markets, gain insights into rural consumer behavior for future product development. You won't believe rural India is spending and they are spending fast. They want to spend after good paints, not I'm saying top-notch paints, but midsized premium paints, even waterproofing. I went to one of the shops and it's -- there is waterproofing there. So it's not just that city and your urban is doing, but your rural is also doing. So this is also one of the thoughts we had before going into New Bharat. So these are just the product ranges we are present in epoxy adhesives and putties from where Resinova was born and how we acquired. Bondtite PVA, which was -- we are consolidating under one name, which I told you Bondtite rubber adhesives, anaerobic adhesives, mostly used which are almost only used in engineering motors and repair shops and auto shops. Tapes, so we are into masking tapes, PTFE tapes and PVC types. And we are growing very well in all the 3 categories of tapes. Silicon sealants is, again, is going to be one of the biggest chemistry for Astral in next 4 to 5 years and for India. I'm not just saying for Astral, but India will move towards silicon sealants. And when I talk about silicon sealants, I talk about all the chemistries that go under silicon sealants, acetic cure, neutral cure, hybrids, all those things, and we at Astral know the know-how, know the applications, know how to do it. So we are sitting at the right time to cater to the market with good products and just work on the penetration now. Instant adhesive is something we launched a couple of years back, we had a rough patch. I will be very honest with all of you. We launched on the brand ResiQuick and we failed. There was formulation error which happened. And the teams worked day and night for 1 year, 1.5 years. And then we said that we need to go with a fresh mindset into the market. So we restructured it under Bondtite, and we launched Bondtite Quick and very happily saying that in the last 6 months, 7 months, the traction we are getting in the market for this INR 5 product is amazing and few northern and western belts are doing very well. Waterproofing is something we strengthened the portfolio last year. We completed the full portfolio. So waterproofing also what we did was restructured how we approach the market in terms of waterproofing. So we put waterproofing into ad mixtures, coatings, membranes and all those things. And we want to go more specialized approach in the market. So again, this is going to be a big growth driver for us in next 4 to 5 years. And with that, I would take your time and launch Astral Paints here with all of you. 2 years back, we acquired Gem Paints, certain stake in Gem Paints. And again, see, I go back and just give you a brief is when we enter businesses, we understand the businesses. We understand what are their loopholes, what are our loopholes. Is that business structured to drive to the next level? Does it need structuring? So it takes time. We set up SAP. We restructured the house. We restructured the man force, aligned it with the culture of Astral, which is again a big thing because you need mentally focused and driven people with us and now happy to say that things are going in the right direction. Then we went into the R&D, we went into the setup, same, same journey. I still remember sometimes 2014, '15, '16 with adhesives is again repeating with paint. So then we understood the formulations, we understood what's -- how the big players are working on their formulations because even if I'm not a chemical person, I should know that how a paint is being made, though I don't need to move a reactor. So we redid the formulations, I'll tell you. The formulations you see today are all redone, no formulation of Gem Paints is used in Astral Paints and we set the complete formulations according to the Indian Paint Standard, the top standard comparing to all the top companies in the market. After that, we decided the launch date, not launch date and then work towards the formulation. So a lot of energy, effort and power has gone from the team's end towards the launch of Astral Paints and I would like to thank all of them. So we launched yesterday in Bangalore, great response. Me, my brother, my father, we are all there with our teams in South because Gem -- it's where Gem started and we wanted to continue that legacy. And that's why we chose Bangalore, and now we'll choose Ahmedabad on Thursday because that's where Astral was founded, so we want to choose 2 states. Gem Paints products will continue as is, the legacy of Gem Paints will continue in those southern states because they are very strong in industrial paints, which we want to continue and which we want to keep servicing the market in the best possible way. So that is a very strong point. So we are very excited with the paints launch. We -- me personally, with my team, we have done blind tests in the market. We have done some small projects also in Ahmedabad with contractors and painters, where they applied the product, neck to neck with top companies, and I was there, Ram was there. We all understood, took their feedbacks and the results are good. We are confident, and that's from where we decided, okay, we are going with the launch. And on day 1, I would be happy to tell you we are coming up with the painter loyalty app and contractor loyalty app, like Kairav explained with ALP, on day 1 of launch, they'll get everything in their hand to have that transparency with the business. So in paint, we are going with economy, premium, luxury. Usually, the market trends are such that you go from economy range, premium range, luxury range. And as you can see that the sub-brands in economy, Styla, Raga; premium, Esteema, Extura, Styla. So these are all the sub-brand names, which we'll see there. The quality, the performance, everything is benchmarked and everything with the formulation is benchmarked with the market, and we are preparing and ready for launch. So Phase 1 will be complete decorative launch. Phase 2 will start finishing the wood coatings, marine coatings. And again, Phase 1 with the paints will be giving waterproofing as well. So waterproofing will go with Phase 1 to the market, which will be, of course, a bit separate portfolio than true build, which I explained of the adhesives portfolio. So we'll complete the full range of paints in next 6 to 7 months, which covers almost 95% of the paint portfolio in the Indian market. So this is our interior emulsion, Elita and Styla. Exterior emulsions, Extura plus, Extura. Primers, we have. Putties, we'll launch. We'll have acrylic wall putty as well, stainers and colorants. So again, news to all of you, we'll be coming with our own tinting machines and the loyal dealers of Astral pains, we will give them tinting machines and we will be installing tinting machines to the loyal dealers who will give us certain chunk of their business, so certain policies have been set, and we'll be implementing that from day 1. All right. With that, I'll pass it on to Hiranand bhai. Thank you so much.

Good evening, everyone. We normally finish our analyst meet in 1 hour and give the maximum time to the Q&A session, but I'm extremely sorry that this time, we have extended because now Astral is no more a pipe company, as 2 young gentlemen said. Now we are in a different 4 verticals. So naturally, it is very difficult to complete the presentation in 1 hour. But still, we will try to see that we give maximum time to the Q&A. So I will quickly finish the financial part, which I think all numbers are in front of you, but I wanted to only highlight the few of the exceptional thing which many of you are having panic that what happened to this number, that number. So I will give the clarification maximum in the Q&A session and a few highlights I will share now in the coming presentation. So this is the way forward present this message from Mr. Sandeep Engineer. It is already there. So I'm not going to read that completely. The message is very clear that we are into the high-growth trajectory and we are quite confident that we are going to double our revenue from here on in the next 5 years. So practically 15% CAGR will not be a challenge to our organization. If the economy support will be there at the kind of infra spend which is happening in our country, we may even exceed to that target also. And our new vertical, new babies, they are just at the beginning of the journey. So when they will mature like Resinova, when -- I still remember when we acquired the Resinova, everybody was crying that how you are talking about INR 500 crore top line. I still remember every analyst, every fund manager were scary when we were telling that we are targeting to achieve the INR 500-crore mark. And today proudly, we can say we are a INR 1,400-crore company in adhesive. So a similar journey is for the bathware and same journey is paint. More or less numbers are in the same line. So next 5 or 10 years down the line, I will be here only in talking to you all this number what we have achieved in the adhesive. So you will be there, so we will be sharing with you the same thing. So industry outlook, we are quite confident that the industry is going to deliver close to about 12% to 13% kind of pipe revenue and close to about 8% to 10% kind of adhesive. That is what industry outlook, we are getting the sense from the market. There is no authenticated number available, but we are of the view that this kind of trend will be there for the next year. And there are a lot of triggers available in the industry side. It can be Jal se Nal also. It can be infrastructure spending also. It can be industry consolidation. That is a big thing happening in the market. I'm surprised when I see the pipe company's number. Most of the good companies in the pipe category has outbidden the industry average number. So any up and down, which is happening in the polymer side. Earlier, the range was 5% kind of up and down. Now that range is going up to as high as 20% up and down. So in this up and down journey, smaller companies are going to lose heavily in the financial terms in terms of profitability, while companies like us will be getting big, big benefit out of that. Nobody was expecting that in the month -- the Q1 said the polymer will go up like that. So 2 polymer rises already taken place and another third rise is on the card. Before first of June, we are expecting another 4% to 5% polymer price will go up. That is what gray market is suggesting in the country. Housing, anyway, it's a booming, you talk to any developer, whether it can be a Godrej, Oberoi, Shobha, anyone you speak, everyone is talking about the big number. And actually, they are delivering. You see their numbers also. The kind of project booking is happening, INR 5,000 crore, INR 5,000 crore projects are getting booking in a 1-week time. That clearly indicates that there is a huge demand and the availability is very, very thin. A city like Mumbai, if you ask anyone, I want 4 BHK apartment, it's hardly available in a ready position. So huge demand is expected in the next 3 to 5 years' time. So these are the big drivers for the growth which we are expecting in the coming time, that the overall industry growth will be 10% to 12% shift from unorganized to organized which we already -- another big advantage to a company like Astral is the decentralization of manufacturing. What happened that when you are supporting from the distant location to the market, your logistic cost will be very, very high. So in that case, it is very difficult for us to maintain the margin and gain the market share. But when you are near to the market, it is very easy to take the market share and at the same time, maintain the margin. Because many dealer and distributor are very much keen to join the brand Astral. But because we are supporting from the distant location, they have to keep a sizable inventory, which is very difficult for a smaller distributor to hold the inventory, not only holding the inventory, secondly, nowadays, the rental costs are so high. So it is very difficult for any distributor level or a dealer level to spend so much money. But if your plant is near to the market, and you hold the inventory, there are high probability that everyone want to join the brand Astral. So that is going to play a big way in our favor. Secondly, expanding the network. Like recently, we have taken the entry into the Eastern market. You'll be happy to know that very first year itself, our plant utilization is 70% plus. This is a big, big, I can say, even we were not forecasting that, that kind of support the eastern market can give the brand Astral because everyone knows the brand Astral, but the availability was the big challenge. The moment we have put up the plant, everyone is keen to join the brand Astral. And with that confidence, we put up the second plant in east, that is in Guwahati. So now we are coming this side to the Hyderabad because we are seeing that the brand is very well recognized across the country, but the challenge is the availability. More and more availability, we will make near to the market. There is high probability we will continuously go to gain the market share. Loyalty program, Kairav already discussed. So this continuously, we are adding the dealer network in our forte and similarly, the plumber side, continuously every week new and new plumbers are joining to our loyalty program. So all these things are going to give us a big support. And the biggest thing, which we have seen in the last year in the infrastructure business of Astral. Infrastructure business, first time in the history after taking over the Rex acquisition in 2018-'19, we were able to sell completely 100% capacity throughout the year. So we were not having capacity last year, which can fulfill the demand. So demand was so high that we were not able to fulfill. So now this year, quickly, we will ramp up the capacity we added 4,000 to 5,000 metric ton capacity immediate basis. And further capacity we are going to add in the near term. So that sector is also going to give us a good number in the coming time. So I want to skip all this thing. This I discussed. Now coming to the main number side. So if you see the consolidated number of Astral, the last 5-year growth was close to about in a revenue term was 21.63% CAGR. The management has always given the guidance of somewhere between 15% to 20%, and we are able to deliver 21.63%. So we are always in line with what we have guided to the street. The biggest drawback in the last year was the value erosion because of the drop in the chemical price as well as drop in the polymer price. So because of that, the gap between volume and the value was very high, close to about 14% because volume growth was close to about 23% and the value growth was 9-point-something. So 14% gap was there. That's why we were not able to absorb the overhead. Otherwise, our margin could have been much, much better in the last year itself. But still margins are better. Margins are as per what we have given the guidance within that range only that. But if value erosion was not that then our EBITDA percentage would have been much, much higher. I can correlate this thing with the GP percentage. If you -- I'm sure you must have gone through -- unfortunately, the slide is not here. Otherwise, I could have shown you the GP improvement in the company at the consolidated level was close to about 5%. But EBITDA improvement was hardly 0.6% or 0.7%. So the GP to EBITDA conversion was not in the parity. The reason was very simple that our overhead -- fixed overhead was same, but because value addition was not there because top line was eroded that's why it was not fully converted into the EBITDA. But in the coming time, in the coming years, once the polymer price will come back to the normalcy level, then this is going to be there, and that is going to help the improvement into the EBITDA. Few of the number, which you want to write down, you can write down -- many of the analysts because they mostly are much worried about this thing. So please write down because it's not there in the presentation, but I was going through just my balance sheet in the slides today morning, and I have picked a few so that you can correlate how the erosion of EBITDA taken place. Otherwise, EBITDA could have been much, much higher. So number one thing is the sales and promotion. Sales and promotion, special drive was there for 25 years' celebration. So we completely changed all our packaging material all our boxes, all our social media campaign, all our PVC. Across the board, we have changed theme of 25 years. So because of that, we ought to give the highest budget to that event. And plus, there was a celebration also with our dealer community, our suppliers, our employees, our plumbers, everyone was a part of that celebration. So we have spent sizable money into that side also. So all put together branding and all put together total spend, which was INR 127 crores last year. This year, it is INR 179 crores. So more than INR 50 crores spend was there because of sales promotion and the branding activity, which is not going to be repeated next year. Sizeable will be curtailed this year. So that was one of the things. Second element was the freight. Last year paid was INR 66 crores. This year, freight is INR 102 crore because volume growth was 25%. So naturally, freight is directly connected with the volume. But because value was not there. So because of that percentage term, this freight had jumped up substantially. So that is eroded the EBITDA. Third element was power and fuel. Power and fuel has increased from 90 to 116, so almost 25%, 30%. It is in line with what is the volume growth because volume was 23%, 24%, but value was just 9%. So because of that, that cost has also shoot up. So all this individual line level -- when I'm giving you only 3, 4 items right now, but if you go through our balance sheet line level, there are so many expenditures, which were linked with the volume. But because volume was not that, that's why it was affected our EBITDA. Similarly, employee cost. Many of our labor costs, all other things were linked with the volume. But value was low. That's why that was also increased. And you can see very well that our employee cost has also substantially gone up in terms of percentage in the previous year. Now EBITDA was also several line, 20% plus 20.64% this year also, in spite of having so much challenge on the value growth, we were 15% EBITDA growth. PBT was also 24.42% in last 5-year CAGR. And the last year was 18.9%. PAT, again, the same line. Similar EPS in the same line and cash profit also. All across the things, if you see everything is 30% plus in the 5-year CAGR. One more exceptional item was there in the balance sheet, that was the amortization because we acquired the Gem Paints. So on that acquisition, we are writing up every year, INR 26 crores annually to amortization. So to that extent, my PBT is low and, consequently, the PAT will be low to that extent. So INR 26 crores every year, we are writing off. So 2 years we are writing off. So 7 years, we will be writing out to take the taxation advantage. So that was also the exceptional. That's why you will see the EPS has come down, but that is only a book entry and a noncash entry. It's not going to affect the cash flow of the organization. This is the consolidated working capital cycle. You can see last 4, 5 years, it is constantly maintained. We have not deteriorated though we are growing at a 20% plus run rate, we have maintained very, very tight our working capital position, which you can see the inventory levels are -- last year, it was 62, now it is 59 and the working capital day last year were 25, now it is 24 -- sorry, data days. And net working capital has reduced from 30 days to 27. This is the cash position, more or less close to about INR 500 crores kind of net cash we are sitting. Definitely, the question will come, what are you going to do this cash? So company have an aggressive plan for the expansion. We have already announced a few plant, a few more expansion activities, it is still at the Board level. We are still not concluded, which may be concluded in the second half of the current year, FY '25. Once that will be finalized, we will be communicating to you. And in between, if any good opportunity will be there for the acquisition side, we are ready for that also. So it depends what kind of opportunity is coming. But definitely, we are going to utilize that cash. Otherwise, there is no point to hold such a cash and deteriorate our own returns. So we will be definitely going to use this judiciously. Otherwise, we are going to give back to the shareholders. This is a more or less breakup is same. Last year, the pipe contributed 73% include plumbing mills, including bathware contributed 70%, this year is same and the paint and adhesive is 27%. The ratio is maintained. This is a broader backup of plumbing business. That is the pipe and bathware. Here also the 5-year CAGR, if you see, it is close to about 20% plus all fund, whether it's the revenue, whether it's EBITDA, PBT is a little higher to 26%. So on a long-term basis, if you see constantly 15%, 20% guidance, which management is giving, we are continuously delivering into that. This is the capacity utilization you can see. So last year, we were close to about 68% kind of utilization. So capacity utilization has improved in the last 3 years. This is a plumbing business working capital, more or similar line what we have seen on the console because 73% is contribution from the plumbing. That's why data days has come down -- sorry, inventory days has come down from 64 to 60, and working capital days has come down from 21 to 19 days. Daters, almost 18 to 19 days. This is the paint and adhesive business. If you see paint and adhesive, CAGR is 26%. Of course, the paint is the later stage addition, that's why it's showing 26%. But if I remove even paint, only adhesive also, which is not a separate slide here, but that also close to about 19% kind of CAGR is there. EBITDA, again, 21% and PBT is around 17.7%, mainly because of INR 26 crore, which we are writing off as a amortization, that's why PBT is low. If I remove this INR 26 crores annually, in write-off, that is in amortization, the number will be 20% plus. This is a key takeaway. I think mostly I have covered. So I'm not going to repeat again because we have already taken so much of time from you, and we want to give maximum time to Q&A session. Thank you very much.

Sandeep bhai, thanks for the opportunity. It's very nice to note that you are no longer alone while addressing the meeting. You have your second son also joining. And I don't want to complement him too much today, but he's done a good job. My question is on the paint industry. 2 years ago, when you acquired this company, we had a god-sent opportunity with one major cement player wanting to enter this field. He entered the field. And at that time, I remember asking this question, don't you think this could be a big disruption and opportunity for smaller players? Today, we have a situation where the plant is operational, there is a disruption in pricing, the established players are talking of taking price cuts initially to sustain the market. Do you think the next 12, 15, 18 months will be a time for you to enter this market in a big way, capture pockets of the market. And this could be the game changer for Astral Paints.

Yes. When we acquired Gem, in a very short time, in maybe a month, announcement came from the big business house. And they have also come with their products. But basically, the news around disruption, they might have told their pricing are not disruptive pricing as of now. As of now, they are fighting against the biggest paint company of India, and we are also studying what the launch is happening, how there are schemes are happening, how they are going to approach the market? But when we see ourselves in this market and with the adhesive dealer network, which we have almost now it is going to touch 200,000, 2 lakh adhesive dealers. And we did a survey almost 60% to 70% sell paints. And we are still very, very niche, and we would not do any disruptive business. When we acquired Resinova, the same challenge, people said that there is a huge company in front of you. And how will you succeed? And we said we'll go in our way, we'll create brand, we'll create our space. And we have said that we'll keep growing at 20%, 25%. So our still target here is 25%, 30%. We have Astral brand, well established. We don't want to go and do any cash burns or not go into any fight, still with all these happening last year, Gem itself at 17% plus EBITDA. This business is rightly done, can be always 14%, 15% EBITDA, which people doubted when we had even adhesive that how will you have sales so much EBITDA. So we are not going to push put money behind it, be aggressive without any reason and do any unordinary expenses. We will grow. We'll make -- this year, we'll reach 325. And from there, we'll keep growing at around 25%, 30%, which is because the size is small, which is a good number for us. Let the top people have their own things going on, we'll make our own way because I'm seeing that we have a better way. Yesterday, I met 350 dealers. And there is a lot of cluster. When this cluster happens, they had their margins have come down, and they have quite going on. And with that, we'll make our own way. What we can tell you all of you is, today, also I met a big fund. And you want the baby to be born. Tomorrow, it should start walking, third day should start running and fourth day it should start building the muscles. I said give us 3 years, the baby is getting developed, but the patience of the market loses very fast. And this fiscal, you will see the difference in paint. You'll see the growth, much growth in adhesive, much better growth in faucet. We are not magicians here. You come -- I told them that let's extend the seat and see how things work. Because it doesn't work with magic business, it takes it on time, but we are very cautious, why we presented both of them that we have now a team of people who are going to run it. It's not -- we have concerns of many companies who don't have people to take over and still you trust them. Here, we have people and bandwidth, please trust us to keep growing at the right pace. We won't overshadow anything. We won't overcome it anything. See, when things run here and there, a few parameters keep going here and there, but the company is not shaking. It's still cash-positive company. It's still with certain unexceptional expense come of 25-year celebration, everybody started shaking at where this -- but it happens, 25 years, people have stayed with us. We have timely we celebrated with the smallest guy and we spent INR 35 crores for that gives us a big reward with the dealers. Today, when we had multiple dealer meets of the celebration, you see the amount of business we are getting from the next day. So don't worry about paints, we won't be doing any disruption. We'll go phase-wise. We'll go very perfectly when you see our paint going.

Sir, last question on the ore pipes that we are talking. Could you give us some sense of the ductile iron pipes. Typically, we also hear of very large diameters. So whether it will come in all those sizes, it will come in the mid-sized where would this be one disadvantageous?

So first phase, we are launching up to 12 inches. And after that, maybe we will go to higher DIs. Major demand is up to 12 inches, 315 MM is the major market for this. And it is a replacement for ductile iron pipes that are used typically for fresh water supply. And this is different from the Nal se Jal pipes. DI is a pressurized application. So OPVC is also a pressurized application. And it is typically used in which is -- it's not the same, using HDP and agri for Nal se Jal and using ductile iron and OPVC in freshwater supplies, 2 different categories. So by getting into OPVC, we are unlocking a new growth driver for the company. And there are many plastic pipe players who have already announced their entry into OPVC. There is a BIS standard also developed for this particular product. And majority of the market leaders and the majority of the bigger players are going into this. So this will also see going ahead, maybe not immediately, but in the next 5 to 10 years, shift from metal to polymer. Thanks.

Thanks for the opportunity, Girish from Morgan Stanley. Wanted to understand the adhesive portfolio for FY '24. If you split the performance for international in India, if you can help us with the revenue and margin. And you also mentioned in the commentary that there's going to be Dahej, which will be the only plant running right now going forward. So the impact cost for shutting down, is it likely to come through in Q1 again? And if there is any one-off in Q4, if you'd like to comment on that? That's the first question.

First of all, it's not going to be a big effect on shutting down the plant because most of the machinery we have moved to the new location. So it's not going to affect too much maybe few crores, INR 2 crores, INR 3 crores or INR 5 crore max. Not going to affect that much to the size of company which we are today. The revenue from the last year from India operation was INR 960 crores. And the EBITDA was INR 151 crores. So close to about 15.7% EBITDA was there from the India operation. The biggest challenge which we face -- and the GP, the best part that GP was improved from 34.72% last year. The U.K. did around INR 355 crores last year. Again, that EBITDA was just INR 19 crores. Last year, EBITDA was INR 34 crores. This year, EBITDA was INR 19 crores, almost half EBITDA. That was the pain point for us because of the inventory losses at the U.K. level. Otherwise, GP in that business has also improved from 33.42% to 35.57%.

So what is the normalized EBITDA in U.K. business that we should expect going forward?

So we are expecting close to about double digit, close to about 10% EBITDA next year.

Next one, you have INR 500 crores of cash. Just wanted to understand your CapEx program for this year and next year? And if you can break it down into various business segments to the extent that plans are firmed up now.

So like we are -- initially, we have chalked out the plant, which can take away the INR 300 crore of CapEx. But if the demand scenario is going to be high, which is there are high probability then in that case, we may increase also. So like we have planned out Hyderabad and the Kanpur plant in 2 phases, that is 40 plus 30 in Hyderabad and 30 plus 30 in Kanpur. Okay. Now if the demand scenario will be robust, then we can prepone also. It depends on the demand scenario also -- about, you can say, major INR 250 crore kind of will go to the pipe and INR 50 crores will go to the other businesses.

And there was a comment that you could expand in Central India also. So that is plus-plus.

So that will be the next phase, not this year. FY '25.

This current CapEx is only 2 plants. So -- but Central India is a vacant geography for us. So after these 2 plants, the Kanpur and the Hyderabad plants are done, something might be on the cards for us in Central India, but it is in the nascent stages of just thought process.

Still you not identify the land also.

Okay. And just final question on OC PVC. If you couldn't quantify any opportunity size, the pricing or I'm sure the margins would be accretive. So you spoke about ROCE being better because the CapEx intensity is lower.

So yes. So we are -- our OPVC CapEx typically -- we are going to invest 1/4 of what our peers have invested in OPVC. Because we have not bought a licensed machine from any manufacturer, neither we have done any contracts with them. And on the realization side, I think it is too soon to comment that what the realizations of this product line would be. But since it is a technical product in a technology-driven product, it will not be like an agri pipe or HDP pipe, which are sold at R plus basis. There is a lot of technology behind this. So it will be selling at a premium price, though it's a PVC product.

This is [ Heth Choksey ] from [ Deven Choksey. ] A few questions. First, around the entire theme that how Jal Jeevan mission conceptualized in 2014, brought around the entire pipe water to the villages of India, we see a similar theme of pipe gas in the next 10 years. So could you talk a little bit about how would you be wanting to capture this theme of pipe gas business, especially going forward? The second question is around -- we've seen how George Fisher in valves, and we have seen how Jubirit has created value in the insulation piping business. And I think I remember last time, in the last analyst meet, you spoke highly about the aluminum-coated insulation pipe for the hot water segment. So could you just throw a little bit light on that space as to how would you want to capture that theme because that product is a very premium product, but eventually want to bring unit economics to India. So that would be really helpful as to how would that market eventually evolve? The third question is around adhesives and sealant business. Look, honestly, you have been very strong in the piping business over the last 15, 16 years. But to replicate that similar kind of a distribution, the kind of reach the just-in-time product to the market, it requires a little dedicated effort in which I'm honestly seeing great effort from the team. But do you think that creating a separately listed company with a very dedicated separate distribution network still relying on the cross-synergies of the parent business can support your expansion? Because your vision is very big, the addressable market is huge, but probably the ability to cater to it in the right time at the right moment might be like the influencing factor around the growth. So that was one question. And the fourth question is on -- we've seen how some regional players like Cera Chem in Chennai or in Tamil Nadu segment, having a really, really dominant position in the niche silicon sealant space, which -- where DAO is really a significant player. So how would you want to like really work on this space going forward? Because I think the regional players are having a lot of impact on the industrial applications. So I think a little bit light on that aspect would really help.

So I will answer the piping side of the questions that you raised. So gas piping, yes, you are correct that there will be a shift, see Europe, they use polyethylene and polybutylene pipes for gas applications. And India is still using metals. So gas side, there will be a move to usage of polymer pipes. It is still in a very nascent phase, and we are actively keeping a watch on the developments on this side. It's too soon to commit to any sort of CapEx till there are proper standards and proper uses and proper authorities willing to accept these products for the gas transfer application. Because India -- the thing is that foreign and all they have set of standards. So they are very comfortable using polymer products. But in India, people are always scared that it's a polymer pipe and we are using it for gas, what if there is breakage, what if someone drills through it, what if there is a leak of gas. So all these things come up in people's minds. So we are actively watching this space. We are not saying that if tomorrow this space develops, that we will not enter it, we will definitely enter it. But it is still in a very nascent phase. So we are just keeping a watch. And when -- and you asked about the aluminum composite pipes. We already have the CPVC aluminum composite pipe for hot water supply. And we are also going to launch the Pex aluminum Pex composite pipes, again, for hot water supply with a different set of fittings that do not require the solvent cement, crimping method as well as push method. So there are 2 ways to do the fitment of this particular product categories. So we are -- but again, it is a very premium product. It is something that is selling at almost 3x to 3.5x of CPVC pipe. So the takers for this particular technology will be very limited in a cost-conscious country like India. But nonetheless, since it's a new and upcoming technology, we are committed to launch these products and manufacture these products in India very shortly.

Please wait, polyolefins will give you a good news. Every child, if I make -- I am born today, then we will start eating my head from tomorrow. So we'll give you some good news as time comes in this fiscal. A lot of things are coming in new ways for a lot of applications. And we are there working on many, many new products. Okay.

So regarding your second question was the George Fisher valve kind of things. So valve business, I think we have recently taken the entry, and we are really doing great. We already grow 3-digit marks. So that business is anyway doing good, but still, we have not explored the opportunity for the export market. Once we will be exploring that export opportunity, this number can be any number, where huge demand is there. So keep patience because it's a new business for us, but doing great into that business. And going forward also, we are expecting that we are going to do reasonably well in that business. I'm very happy to announce that recently Astral has opened the office in Dubai. So now Astral focus is going towards this export market also. And we are going to bring a lot of new projects from the Gulf region also and that we are going to support so many products, it's not only valve. This can be a CPVC also, it can be a Drain Pro also, it can be a Silencio also, multiple products, even adhesives also we are selling into the Dubai market. We appointed the distributors over there also. So now focus is moving towards that direction also. But it always takes time. So give us a few years, definitely, we are going to do a good job into that category also. Regarding your another question of adhesive and sealant as separate company, so you can give a more focus and all, I'm sure you are not seeing the number of or this business. Last 10 years, our growth is 17% CAGR including U.K. U.K. geography is growing hardly 1% or 2% on a GDP terms. Including that also, we are growing at a 17% CAGR. So which is one of the best growth I can foresee in a country like India into particularly that category, where the big giant is there, no one has even dared to do INR 500 crores business against them. And we are today close to about INR 1,400 crores. So we have done a good job. Yes, definitely, we can do still better, and we are trying hard that we can do further better into that segment. But any brand journey, initial journey is always a push journey. The moment pull start, number move very fast. So we are almost on the verge of pull side. Now Bondtite brand is very well recognized. You go into the Mumbai City, every shelf, you will find the Bondtite brand. That is what a big achievement for a brand. So pull will come, and that will take this business to the next level of INR 3,000 crores. So it's a question of only time. And Saumya, you want to add anything?

You mentioned about the sealants and the application of sealants and how you'll go into B2B, correct?

I mean, yes, the competition from the...

Basically, there is application of sealants, you know it's B2C and B2B, B2C -- B2B is directly to industries. So we do both we do both and B2C will be our focus because we are a retail-focused company when it comes to adhesive business and will be the same when it comes to the paints. We reached around 2 lakh unique outlets every month with loyal outlets growing every month-on-month who are dealing with us regularly. So we'll be focusing on our distribution and strength of distribution. But as I rightly said, that sales marketing is creating the category, creating the application, application [Foreign Language]. So we'll be focusing on creating applications. I'll give you one example is for Jio, fiber optic market, fiber optics. So Jio, Airtel and Tata, we are one of the biggest suppliers for them for their repair kits. So that's how we are going into segment by segment, understanding, developing that application and then ending over. It's a little different because application to application, there is a change in chemistry, there is a change in the packing size. There is -- so it's not fit to fit method for everything. But yes, mass is retail for sealants and we'll go head on with the competition in the retail.

This is Ritesh from Investec. A few questions. First for Sandeep bhai. I think on one of the slides, we have indicated 10% to 11% industry growth. It was not specified, whether it was volume or value. If you could specify that? And in that context, do we have any aspiration on maintaining market share or increasing it? And would you want to revise your volume guidance, which historically we have indicated around 15%? So that's first question for you. Second question for you again, and Hiranand bhai, 2 years back, we had given a number of INR 1,500 crores of top line within 4 to 5 years. If we could spill where we are on the journey and are we still retaining that target? That's the second question. Third, again, specific to Sandeep bhai. I think Kairav did indicate that we have around 9 verticals. Just wanted to understand what sort of management structure we have and how it falls into Kairav, and Saumya and into you and Hiranand bhai. I think this is the first set of questions. I have a few more.

The market, we have been guiding at 15% to 20% growth. But on the higher end, we'll be always be 20% and we'll always want to be above 20%. So that is what we are looking at. And this year, as we look the polymer scenario, I think the guidance of the higher end will happen. So safely, we don't want to give absolute number and tomorrow you all run and something happens to the stock and then we don't deliver. We have always given a guidance and delivered. So, yes, it's a 15%, 20%, but 20% is always...