Atalaya Mining Copper, S.A. (ATYM) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, and welcome to Atalaya Mining Plc 2022 Annual General Meeting proceedings. [Operator Instructions] The company may not be in a position to answer every question received during the meeting today, however, all questions be reviewed and the response published on the Investor Meet Company platform where appropriate to do so. I'd now like to hand you over to Roger Davey, Nonexecutive Chairman. Good morning, sir.

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Annual General Meeting of the company. My name, as you just heard, is Roger Davey, Chairman of the company, and with the consent of the meeting, I will act as Chairman with great pleasure and very proudly of the meeting. Let me introduce first of all, the other directors around me. We have Alberto, you sadly can't see -- I presume, you can't see at the moment, we have Alberto, Hussein, Steve, Kate, with us -- together with us today. Unfortunately, Jesus and Neil Gregson and Cesar could not be with us today. We accept their apologies. For various reasons they couldn't make it. And so to start the meeting, I prepared a precis of the share of the directors -- of the Chairman's letter but sadly, I'm afraid I'm going to have to -- you'll have to bear with me because I have to read the complete letter verbatim. It's a little bit dry, but it has to be done for legal reasons. So if I can start with that, please. It starts: Dear shareholder, 2001 (sic) [ 2021 ] was another year dominated by the COVID-19 pandemic, with the company maintaining as its primary focus the continued safety, protection and well-being, not only of our staff and contractors, but also the community and our suppliers. Despite these external challenges, the operational and financial health of the company was not overlooked and the company continued to build on its 2020 operational track record, culminating in a record annual production for 2021 of just over 56,100 tonnes of contained copper. The average process plant feed grade of 0.41 copper and the process recovery of 86% were consistent with reserve estimates and the budgeted figures. Cash costs and all-in sustaining costs for 2021 of $2.18 per pound and $2.48 per pound, respectively, were below -- just below the lower end of the revised 2021 cost guidance, mainly due to the combination of the U.S. dollar strengthening against the euro and higher copper tonnes produced. With process plant optimization initiatives expected to support the copper production, output guidance has been set at 54,000 to 56,000 tonnes of contained copper for 2022. The executive team was able to capitalize not only on the continued high level of operational performance, but also the higher copper price scenario during 2021, with revenue increasing to EUR 405.7 million from EUR 253.8 million in 2020, and EBITDA for 2021 of EUR 199.1 million compared with EUR 67 million in 2020. The resulting free cash flow generated enabled the company to reward, and it's a good word, reward investors with an inaugural dividend payout of EUR 47.3 million, equivalent to $0.395 per share, which we paid out in December. Despite the previously announced payment of the deferred consideration to Astor, the company finished the year with net cash of EUR 60.1 million and in a robust position, based obviously on consensus copper pricing to maintain a future meaningful and sustainable dividend policy of 30% to 50% of free cash flow. The completion and implementation of the flotation circuit improvements and the installation of additional tailings thickening capacity to reduce fresh water consumption with consequent reduction in lime consumption, these are both the highly cost incentivized, have combined to reduce overall power consumption and the carbon footprint during 2021. As well as being economically advantageous. The completion of the permitting and integration of a planned 50 megawatt solar plant on site will be a significant factor and a major contributor to the attainment of corporate sustainability objectives. And you will note, of course, that during this last year, we also published our first sustainability report. Mine site exploration and infill drilling continued the successful replacement of mineable reserves and maintenance of the mine life despite the increased rate of mining depletion. On top of the existing reserves for additional growth prospects, the company is currently focusing on 4 main projects. In the North of Spain, at Proyecto Touro, the Company is engaging with local and regional stakeholders whilst progressing, of course, with internationally recognized best practice, preparing the preparation and submission of the Environmental Impact Evaluation for the revised project. In the South, at Proyecto Masa Valverde, exploration work is ongoing with encouraging drilling results. And at Proyecto Riotinto East, an electromagnetic airborne geophysical survey, which started at the end of 2021, has now -- that has now been completed, with several anomalies having been identified by the survey for follow-up exploration drilling. In December, the Company announced the acquisition of a 51% interest in Rio Narcea Nickel, establishing a presence in the Ossa Morena Metallogenic Belt in the southwest of Spain, an area that includes the Alconchel gold -- copper-gold project. In January this year, the Company announced the start of construction of an industrial scale E-LIX plant at Proyecto Riotinto. This plant will utilize the E-LIX System, which is an extraction process developed, patented and owned by Lain Technologies Limited to produce copper and zinc metals from sulphide concentrates. E-LIX has the potential to unlock significant value from the company's portfolio of polymetallic resources in the Riotinto District by materially increasing recoveries of copper, zinc, lead and precious metals from the complex sulphide ores. The plant will have the capacity to produce up to 10,000 tonnes of metal annually, which is dependent on the copper-zinc mix, thus reducing transportation costs, treatment charges and penalties associated with producing and delivering conventional concentrates. I would like to take this opportunity to express our appreciation for the continued dedication and commitment of the management and staff who have been responsible for the delivery of such excellent results in this difficult year. At the same time, I'd like to thank, not only the Board members for their continued support, guidance and close involvement with the company's activities, but also our valued shareholders for their continued and appreciated support. Dr. Jose Sierra Lopez retired from the Board during the year. In addition, Mr. Damon Barber stepped down in April 2021. On behalf of the Board, I would like to take this opportunity to thank both for their efforts and assistance over many years with the company and wish Dr. Jose Sierra well in his retirement. At the same time, it is my pleasure to welcome Neil Gregson to the Board. To date, 2022 is seeing considerable inflationary pressures with increased volatility in both costs and commodity markets as a result of the recent geopolitical events in Ukraine. Nevertheless, commodity prices remained strong and strengthened by the experience and improvements achieved over these last 2 difficult years. We look forward with confidence to ongoing investments in our portfolio of projects to continue the growth path and increase the value of your company. That's the official letter. If I can just add to that slightly post script is that during the year, during recently, should I say, XGC sold out their shareholding and their representative, Harry Liu, left the Board of Directors. And to add to that, Kate Harcourt, a well-recognized ESG specialist, has joined our Board. But that is not in the official script. I've added that, added to it. Thank you very much. The meeting will now then come to order. And with your consent, I shall ask George Hadjineophytou, which is always the most difficult part of the meeting, Company Secretary, to act as Secretary and scrutineer of the meeting. Not hearing any objections. The following documents have been tabled. The circular containing the Notice of Meeting, the form of proxy, and the Annual Report containing the audited consolidated financial statements for the year ending 31st of December 2021. These documents are available for any shareholder to examine, if they so wish. The Annual General Meeting of the company was convened by notice to shareholders dated 26th of May 2022. May I take the notice as read. Not seeing any objections. Quorum. I advised that there is a quorum present and that notice calling this meeting has been given in accordance with the company's Articles of Association. I now declare, therefore, that the meeting is properly called and constituted for the transaction of business. I'd now like to turn to resolutions put before the meeting and propose each resolution in turn to the meeting with its proxy votes already received. Resolution #1 provides for the receipt and consideration of the audited consolidated financial statements of the company for the year ending 31st December 2021 and the report of the directors notice thereof. In respect of Resolution 1, the proxy votes have been cast as follows: for, 93,292,362, which is essentially 100%; against, 413; withheld 79,000. And our proposal Resolution 1 as an ordinary resolution. Those in favor, please raise your hands. Thank you. Thank you. [Voting]

I declare the resolution carried. Reelection of Mr. Roger Davey. The ordinary Resolution #2 provides for the reelection of Mr. Roger Davey as Director of the company. In respect to Resolution 2, the proxy votes have been cast as follows: for, 80,704,661, which is 92.9%; against, 6,156,000; withheld, 6,511,000; and abstained, 501. Can I ask the shareholder please to propose the Resolution #2 as -- thank you very much. Thank you. Those in favor, those against. [Voting]

I declare the resolution carried. Resolution 3 provides for the reelection of Mr. Alberto Lavandeira as a Director of the company. In respect to Resolution 3, the proxy votes have been cast as follows: 93,329,693, which is essentially 100%; against were 42,537; none withheld; and 501 abstained. I now propose Resolution #3 as an ordinary resolution. Those in favor? Thank you. Those against? Thank you. [Voting]

I declare the resolution carried. Reelection of Mr. Jesus Fernandez Lopez, is Resolution #4, as a Director of the company. In respect of Resolution 4, the proxy votes have been cast as follows: for, sorry, 93,329,693, essentially 100%; against 42,537; no votes withheld; and 501 abstained. I now propose Resolution #4 as an ordinary resolution. Those in favor, please? Thank you. And those against? [Voting]

I declare the resolution carried. Ordinary Resolution #5 provides for the reelection of Dr. Hussein Barma as Director of the company. In respect to Resolution 5, the proxy votes have been cast as follows: for, 88,053,998, which is 94.3%; against is 5,318,232; withheld, 0; and abstained, 501. I now propose Resolution #5 as an ordinary resolution. Those in favor, please? Thank you. Those against? [Voting]

Thank you very much. I declare the resolution carried. Reelection of Mr. Neil Gregson, Resolution #6 provides for the reelection of Mr. Neil Gregson as a Director of the company. In respect to Resolution 6, the proxy votes have been cast as follows: for is 93,371,817, essentially 100%; against, 413; no withheld; and abstained, 501. I now propose the Resolution #6 as an ordinary resolution. Those in favor, please? Thank you very much. And those against? No, 0. Thank you. [Voting]

I declare the resolution carried. Reelection of Mr. Stephen Victor Scott. The ordinary Resolution #7 provides for the reelection of Mr. Stephen Victor Scott as Director of the company. And in respect to Resolution 7, the proxy votes have been cast as follows: for, 74,079,576, which is 86.8%; against, 11,305,653; withheld, 7,987,001; abstained, 501. I now propose Resolution 7 as an ordinary resolution. Those in favor, please? Thank you very much. Those against? [Voting]

I declare the resolution carried. Ordinary Resolution #8 provides the reelection of Mrs. Kate Jane Harcourt as Director of the company. In respect to Resolution 8, the proxy votes have been cast as follows: for, 93,206,879, which is 99.8%; against, 165,351; withheld 0; and abstained, 501. I now propose Resolution #8 as an ordinary resolution. Those in favor, please? Thank you. Those against? Thank you very much. [Voting]

I declare the resolution carried. The ordinary Resolution #9 provides for the reelection of Ernst & Young Cyprus Ltd. as the auditors of the company. In respect to Resolution 9, the proxy votes have been cast as follows: for, 93,372,318, which is essentially 100%; against, 413; withheld 0; and abstained 0. I now propose Resolution #9 as an ordinary resolution. Those in favor? Thank you. Those against? Thank you. [Voting]

I declare the resolution carried. Resolution 10, authorizes the directors to grant pursuant to Atalaya Mining Plc long-term investment plan 2020 options to subscribe for up to 6,992,835 ordinary shares of 7.5 pence each in the capital of the company. Ordinary shares, therefore, representing approximately 5% of the company's issued share capital. At a minimum exercise price of the average of the mid-market closing prices on AIM or the volume-related average trading price on the Toronto Stock Exchange of an ordinary share where the majority of the ordinary shares are traded, on the 5 trading days immediately preceding the date of grant. In respect of Resolution 10, the proxy votes have been cast as follows: for, 56,880,959, which is 65.5% for; against, 29,980,083; withheld, 6,511,188; and abstained 501. I now propose to the meeting Resolution #10 set out in the notice convening Annual General Meeting. As at least 50% of the company's issued share capital is represented at the meeting, in order for the resolution to be effective, it must be passed by a simple majority of the votes cast on the resolution. And I ask for those in favor? Thank you. And those against? Thank you very much. [Voting]

I declare the resolution carried. Resolution 8 -- sorry, 11, authorizes the directors to issue or grant rights to subscribe for up to an aggregate of 13,985,671 ordinary shares, representing approximately 10% of the current issued share capital of the company as if the rights of pre-exemption in Section 60(B) of the company's law did not apply. Such ordinary shares issued or rights to subscribe for ordinary shares granted pursuant to this authority will be at a price of not less than 20% discount to the market price of an ordinary share on AIM for the 10 trading days, immediately preceding such issue or grant and subject to provide with and obtaining any requisite approvals required by the rules of AIM and the TSX. In respect to Resolution 11, the proxy votes have been cast as follows: for, 93,368,641 million, effectively 100%; against, 3,589; no withheld; and abstained 501. I now propose Resolution #11 set out in the notice convening the Annual General Meeting as a meeting. As at least 50% of the company's issued share capital is represented at the meeting, in order for the resolution to be effective, it must be passed by a simple majority of the votes cast on the resolution. So if I can ask those in favor, please? Thank you very much. And those against? [Voting]

I declare the resolution carried. So that, ladies and gentlemen, in fact, completes the formal business of the Annual General Meeting, and I -- and declare, unless there are any questions concerning the formal business, I predeclare the meeting closed, and we will now pass on to the less formal side of meeting, where Alberto will present, make a presentation to the meeting and welcome any questions after the presentation. Most of the questions will be answered during or any in the presentation. So thank you very much for attending the formal part of the meeting.

The presentation is here. Okay. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. I'll try to be brief because as we all know, the company, and we know what happened. I'll try to explain, especially what we hear about the assets, assets of the company and what are the plans for the future. And later, I will welcome as many questions as possible. If you look at Slide 6, which I hope you have seen in the screen, we are here summarizing what happened in the year. It has been mentioned by our Chairman. The key parameters there is that we produced slightly more than we have guided, with an excellent EBITDA of around EUR 200 million, with decent all-in sustaining cost of around $2.50 per pound. And the most important thing is that the result -- all this resulted in operating cash flow of around EUR 150 million and free cash flow after taxes and after everything around [ EUR 113 ]. This resulted in the fact that we ended the year with a net cash position, having started 12 years before with a negative cash position, strong cash flow generation, which allowed us to give a dividend of around EUR 47 million or almost EUR 50 million as soon as we got some money back to the shareholders. And of course, as a result of all this and the result of all the things that happened during the year, the liquidity of our shares have continued to improve and has also continued to grow during 2022. Looking at what do we have to achieve all this, what are our assets. Our assets are Cerro Colorado, where we announced the reserve estimates that give us confidence to have over 10 years mine life without any additional mining. But we announced what we had at San Dionisio, which is a neighbor deposit, which I will explain a bit more about that. And also, we started acquiring with a very low entry, some exploration positions East of Riotinto, immediately East to where we have our operations at Ossa Morena. Health and safety and ESG continue to be one of our priorities. Low levels of incidence of COVID. We basically continued working very well with all kinds of restrictions even up to recently this year and with low incidence, except the chain, supply chain that has affected in some way. For us, it's important that we try to use as much, recycle what is possible. And this is an issue with the growth that has been ongoing in the region and things that we have done, all those activities, specifically, thickening tailings and reducing operations. We were able to cope with very dry conditions that have affected Spain in the last few months. I would say, a couple of years. So what's going on for 2022? Our guidance is slightly reduced and we had a hiccup in the first part of the year due to a nationwide strike when we had to stop production due to the lack of supplies, specifically lime. So very likely we'll be in the lower end of our guidance, around 54,000 tonnes of copper, still quite good and much more than we had a few years ago. We expect to continue improving in our costs per tonnes, but we are very conscious of the problems with inflation, high energy costs, high lime cost, explosives, diesel, transport, fuel. So it's something that we are looking very closely, especially electrical costs. Even with that, the first quarter has been quite good despite all the challenges of cost of electricity going from EUR 60 per tonnes -- sorry, per megawatt hour going to around EUR 220, that's almost 4x. But then having said that, we were able to use free cash flow around EUR 20 million, which is something that we have never expected, people have never expected years ago. And we continued having a very good balance sheet, having a net cash position of around EUR 86 million. On the corporate level, we finalized, finally concluded all the Astor litigation. Unfortunately, sad to lose a very long standing shareholder like XGC, which basically sold their shares due to some issues with the parent company, with debt to the parent company. These shares were placed in around 44 institutions. There was a big demand of them -- for them. And this has increased dramatically the liquidity power of our company. This is some -- these are a couple of very important events until now. Looking at our assets. I mean where do we want to go in the future? Well, it's very important what our Chairman has mentioned, the construction of E-LIX. E-LIX is something that's going to transform, we believe, is going to transform, not only our company, but also the Pyrite Belt, and that's why we have exclusivity agreement with the owner of the technology and where we are starting to construct a plant that we will be able to produce metals directly. I would say, first time in the world with this type of technology, and it's very important because we can achieve much higher recoveries of the metals that we have in our deposits. One of these deposits is the Masa Valverde where we already announced some very interesting intercepts specifically with copper, but also polymetallic. And where we are right now, as we speak, we have 4 rigs ongoing, and we will be keeping the market updated with the results. But as you can imagine, if we are keeping 4 rigs because we are seeing that the area merits -- requires lots of attention and has lots of potential. And very important also that we started announcing the resources that we have around Cerro Colorado. Cerro Colorado has been what we started with. We were able to -- this is a deposit that was supposed to be mined in 12 years at 9 million tonnes per year. We have been mining out for 7 years. We are mining at 15 million tonnes per year. And we still have over 12 years of Cerro Colorado, but now we have San Antonio, San Dionisio, just neighbors, which will probably add another 5 at least, which means just without adding a single tonne, we're looking at 15 years life of our assets at our plant. And this is a huge advantage in the Pyrite Belt to have a plant that's running and specifically, to have a team that's operating efficiently. As you know, one of the most important difficulties that projects are facing is the lack of people, lack of projects in safe jurisdiction, delays with permits, delays of construction. So having this asset in a safe jurisdiction is something that's very [ important ]. We continue to improve our assets, and one of them will be to construct the solar plant. We expect to receive the first panels at the end of this year, transformer in the first quarter of 2023. And by mid '23, we will be producing from our solar plant around 23% of our energy needs, basically at the price which is almost free, which contrasts with a current price of around EUR 160 as we speak, in Spain, which is almost 3x what we had last year, and this will be producing energy, 23% of the energy at less -- at less than EUR 30 per megawatt hour. In addition to that, we have also signed an agreement with a supplier for 10 years, electrical supplier at EUR 52 per megawatt hour, which means that we have assured over 50% of our energy needs for the next -- for our future at around 80% of what we used to have it in the past. So it's a very good long-term initiative, which will get rid of one of our problems. Going to health and safety, we continue to consider that essential. And we finally published the First Sustainability Report with all our targets, with all our records. And also related to that, we -- our Chairman has announced, we welcome Kate Harcourt to our Board. She's very well-known specialist in ESG and environment, and I'm sure she will be a fantastic addition to our company. So that's really in a nutshell what we are going to be doing. And we are going to be doing this with the assets that you see in the picture, basically a nice looking open pit, Cerro Colorado, with a fantastic plant that's neat and tidy and is operating very well, treating over 15 million tonnes per year with very good recoveries. And in Slide 10, you will see what we talk about San Dionisio. San Dionisio, this is a sketch to show you what we have in this deposit that's just sitting a few hundred meters beside Cerro Colorado. You will see some shadows in blue and pink and red. Obviously, the darker color, the warmer colors, higher grade, all the upper part has been mined, as you can see, some dark areas mined by underground methods in the last century. But the previous operators left all those bluish and purple, which are high copper, almost with double the grade, one that we have in Cerro Colorado. In the lower part, this area that's shown in red is our massive sulphide, where Albite has been mined, but most of this is there. This contained copper and zinc, with good grades or, as I say, most of them will be mined by open pit. And that's the reason why we -- it's so important that we'll get this E-LIX up and running as soon as possible because it will be essential to be able to recover the zinc. And with this, our copper equivalent grade would be much higher than we have right now. Another important asset we consider is exploration. What you are seeing there is the area around Masa Valverde, an area with no operation, just hills and barren trees, eucalyptus, where we have 4 rigs ongoing. This project is located 25 kilometer from us in the middle of Pyrite Belt, and we have lots of hopes there. So another pillar would be exploration. Another pillar will be -- the last pillar will be Touro. Touro, we had a negative environment impact declaration 2 years ago. We have been working with the authorities. And now we decided to take care of the water situation that the small acid drainage from previous operation. This is our brownfield site. And we have decided to build a water treatment plant ahead of the permit in conjunction, obviously, and speaking with authorities. What you've seen, picture 12 is how this construction was going just 1 week ago. I can report that this is now being commissioned as we speak. It's been loaded with water. Looking at the size of the people there in yellow, you can see that this is not a small Mickey Mouse plant. It's something that we have built very fast and with good quality. And these authorities have been very pleasantly surprised to see how well we responded to something that was not our responsibility. This, we had a plan to -- we had a plan to take care of these acid waters after we had started Touro project, but we decided to show that we could do it even before because we have faith that this project is going to be permitted. I continue to be totally convinced that we are going to get all the permits that are required for Touro and this probably will be next value added for our company. And finally, you have a copy of -- you can see the Sustainability Report of '21. Before that, we had published an approach to sustainability. It's all in our webpage, and you can see, in all type of details, what we are doing and what we will be doing. In a nutshell in the last slide before I get to reply some questions, you will see the big targets for this year. Solar plant -- solar plant, Riotinto, explore and define Masa Valverde, including permits to go underground, San Dionisio, get permits to start mining as soon as possible. Touro, continue with the permit stages and finally get the permits to explore. In Ossa Morena, this region is just north of Riotinto. It's a totally different area with gold and silver, showing where we are going to be spending like EUR 2 million on exploration and construct E-LIX. Finally, all this will result in our ICR company, as summarized on Slide 15, going from the 56,000 tonnes of copper produced with the addition of the higher grades of San Dionisio and other deposits, to get into the 75,000 tonnes -- 70,000 to 75,000 tonnes of copper because we already have our plant there, it's able to treat that. With the addition of Touro, we believe we are going to be getting into 100,000 tonnes of copper, which is a very serious production in less than 2 years. Remember, I remind you that 6 years ago, we were looking at 25,000 tonnes of copper. This is multiplying by 4. So this is just a testament of the teams that I am happy to lead. They are fantastic and they have been delivering, always, value to this company and value to the shareholders. We will continue doing that and doing it as soon as possible, as efficient as possible. And as I used to say, without money -- we used to joke saying that, building mines with money is quite easy. Building it without money, it's really a challenge, and we have been able to do that. So once now that we have money, it's going to be much faster and much easier. So really, that's the main part of the presentation.

And I have here some questions that I'm going to read for those who are present or those that cannot access the computer. I have a question from [ Martin ], saying, can you confirm that E-LIX mainly involves a system for putting copper into solution after crushing, which can be used for electrowinning? What are the main savings from the increased ore extraction? How does electrowinning costs compare with total smelting cost? Can you give us a guide for the overall percentage saving from using E-LIX system? Okay. Lots of questions here, but let me start by the first. This system puts copper into solution. Normally, after you concentrate it. So it's an alternative to sell your concentrates to a smelter. The good thing it does is that smelter normally penalizes you for having impurities. And also you have to have certain quality of concentrates. By putting it into a solution and then after that, you go to electrowinning, you sell a product of 100%, 99.99% copper, which has better payability. They don't make a discount. Sometimes they can offer you a premium and it's more economic. That's the most thing. Then the next question is, what are the main savings for increased ore extraction? Actually, it's not a saving. Actually, what it is, is that what you have is from the same [ entire ] raw material. Instead of extracting 75% of copper, for example, from a complex ore, you are extracting over 90%. So basically from the same rock. After you have to mine it, you have to grind it, you have to fault it, you are getting 15% higher revenues, which means lower cost overall. How does electrowinning cost compared to total smelting cost? Well, it's difficult to compare in cost itself because the reality is that higher recovery. So then it's much more revenues, it's like having a much higher copper price. You get more dollars per tonnes, even if they were at higher costs, you will get -- you will be much more efficient. In the case, if you wanted to compare it to smelting cost, probably it will not be economic over a clean concentrate because smelters are very efficient. But in our case, we don't have a pure copper deposit. We have a copper deposit with zinc and led, which right now is [ lost ] and gold. Right now, all the things that goes into our concentrates is just lost, somewhere it's recovered, but we are not paid. And just as an example, we get 10,000 tonnes of zinc included in our copper concentrate every year, which at current market price will be like $30 million, but basically, it's lost. This system, we will be able to recover the zinc in addition to get a better payability on the copper. And can you give us a guide overall percent segment from using E-LIX? More than savings, what it will be is a much higher revenue. And I can tell you that the application of E-LIX in our deposits will probably range in over EUR 1 billion operating cash flow for the company. So it's transformational. It could be basically doubling our market cap if this was applied. More than doubling. Richard is asking, could Alberto please give us the views of the price of copper over the next 2 years. And oh, I can give you my views, I can give you my views but if I knew, I wouldn't be here. It's an interesting question. And also, Richard, I suppose it's Richard [ Scarr ]. It's an interesting question because lots of people have been wrong saying that the copper was going down. And once everybody -- tide changes, everybody is saying it is going to be going up. Now we're in a period where after reaching $4.70 per pound, now we're back to $4. And we are hearing stories about China is slowing down, about lower consumption, about COVID restrictions, about the changed supply issues, and this is weighting down the copper price. So I believe we will see a period of low-ish copper price. But remember, lowish copper prices of $4 was a dream that nobody thought was going to be happening 3 years ago. Three years ago, all the projection, we're looking at $3.50 long-term price, and we have been over $4 now for 1.5 years. And what has happened in 1.5 years? No single big project has been sanctioned for construction even being at $4 per pound. How come when everybody was looking at higher copper prices being $3.50 being economic. There's a reason for that. There's a huge capital escalation and the capital intensity for new projects has gone up from the $15 to $30,000 per tonne of copper produced or even higher. What does it mean? That copper projects that have to be built will not be economic even at $4 per pound. This is the first thing. Second thing is when people now start looking at the other -- trying to sanction new projects, they will be seeing that they will have to put the inputs of energy, explosives, gas, fuel, transport and so on. What does it mean? That although they had a project that in theory was going to work, when they had to update those figures to go to their Boards, to get an approval of several million dollars, they will find out that it doesn't work because it's not possible to go to the Board and say, "Well, yes, but we believe we want to invest $5 billion, but we believe that the gas prices, the fuel and everything is going to go down and copper is going to go up." Why I say all this, Richard, is that I think that we are not going to be seeing new copper projects being built or being decided to be built in the next few years. So it means that from the supply side, we already have negative news. The only good projects that have been operating are those operating plus those in Congo and few others that don't make a big change. But on the demand side, what we are seeing with the decarbonization and then the, obviously, happening in Ukraine, what was the response from the West? We need more renewable energy. That includes China, by the way. China, besides putting more coal into production, Germany, more coal again in order to cope with the gas, everybody is pushing wind and solar. That requires more copper, much more copper. There is more people in the world which require more copper. People in the world, even if there's a slowdown in China, which there is right now, there's a big unemployment and China will have to make incentives, which will probably be growing their infrastructure, which means more copper. So I believe we will be seeing a short period of copper kind of a slowdown due to new production coming in. But I see the copper -- okay, let me try to bet in 2 years, well over $5 per pound, well over. When I mean well, it's well over. So that's the response to Richard, okay? Long one, but that's the reason why I think so. I can tell you one thing. I can tell you that constructing mines is extremely difficult. They're in the middle of nowhere, they are remote, require billions of dollars. The big company -- the big ones are in the hands of big companies. Even if they were sanctioned now, they would not be in construction or they will not be in production in less than 5 years from now. So in the meantime, the world continues demanding copper, and all these things that we hear about recycling is not that easy because it's really need for infrastructure. Copper is going to go up even if we see a hiccup. [ David Nobel ] is asking E-LIX, do we have any other economic interest in this project or any interested parties Atalaya linked [indiscernible] or any interested parties Atalaya linked to Lain Tech? No. We have a right of first refusal, if she sells, if she goes, if she tries to sell a total or partially her technology, we have given -- we have funded their part by loans. So these loans are warranted by Lain technology, and we have an exclusivity in the Pyrite Belt. I hope that -- we offered to buy some equity in Lain. Unfortunately, the owner knew the value and was not ready to sell it. But basically, we have the right to buy if she tries to sell. In the AGM release, we are reminded that [indiscernible] is owned by Lain technology. I thought that Atalaya have right to sell the technology in Europe. Is this correct? No, that's not correct. What we have is that exclusivity in the Pyrite Belt, whereas it's not an implication, and we have the of right of first refusal worldwide, total or partial, if she wants to sell a 10%, we have the right to refuse or right to match that. And of course, we will be the first user, and we know a bit more than any other. Can we have more details on how long we have in such rights? It's basically 10 years. It does seem that Atalaya has developed this project before, then it was only theoretical. Well, Atalaya has been giving financial help because to give somebody [ jump ] having a good idea to -- lots of money to install an installation, it requires a lot of faith. And the only reason we have done that is we were checking the advances physically, and we were shown the cathodes of copper and the ingots of zinc, which is something not many people can show. And we believe it's going to work. We know it's going to work. We are just checking the practicalities when you build a larger scale because sometimes, let's say, a small battery can work small, like when you will try to make it big, it requires some other engineering thoughts. So we are very sure it works. We are very sure of the added value. Having said that, when we calculate the reserves at San Dionisio and some other places, we are calculating those assuming E-LIX doesn't exist. So we are using the conservative proven approach of rotation only. Paul is asking our target completion for E-LIX. Before -- there is some delay in some supplies, but at the end of this year, we believe everything will be ready for commissioning at Riotinto. David is asking, is it possible to have a recap of what percent of our copper output is in the offtake agreement? How long this will last? Is there any advantage or disadvantage to be in disagreement? Well, we only have right now -- we have 3 offtake agreements. 50% goes to a company called -- trader called IXM, which is controlled by China Moly, around 30% goes to Transamine which is a Swiss, French trader, very well known. And now around 18% goes to Trafigura, which is one of our shareholders. These agreements last for the tonnes of copper produced by Cerro Colorado in the [ 3101 ] report that was published in 2013. In theory, those will probably be gone in around 3 or 4 years from now. What's in San Dionisio, San Antonio is not included and whatever we produce, all other metals is not included. Having said that, the agreements are arm length. They are very conventional. They don't have any strange wording. We get paid 96.5% of the copper, which is very conventional, with a minimum reduction, and the penalty elements are there with typical standard deductions, which is something that sometimes could give us a little bit of an advantage or a disadvantage, if we didn't have it. Will be that we will probably be able to bargain with other traders and get better freight rates because when you -- or you have a good saving is the potential of use of some combination of freights that other traders may have and not this can happen. So that's probably the only one that is a disadvantage. David is asking ESG. Are we getting indication yet where we stand relative to other miners? Where do we rank? Do you have a goal? Top 50, top 10? Really, I don't know. I don't have information. We believe that we have a fantastic operation that is seen as a [indiscernible]. People have visited, see that we are around villages with mining going on, less than 200 meters from houses with daily blasts, with a main road crossing the pit. And employing around 80% of the population with -- from these villages, having trained them from scratch. It means we will rank very highly in the ESG parameters. We recycle all the water. We have zero discharge policy. We don't throw anything to the river. We have some things that are kind of first in the world by controlling, monitoring of dust online based on the direction of the wind. So that we can move the blast to make sure it doesn't go towards a school or towards the time for the school, the children are out. All these things is recognized. All the thing is made in a transparent way. We have visitors, touristic -- tourists visiting the site with buses, going inside the mine, full transparency, no dust at all in our operation with irrigation. I think we are setting a very high standard. And I would say that we are ranking very, very highly in all these ESG matters. In transport, we have been one of the first companies who signed a protocol of the United Nations with some targets that we make public. And in Spain, we are considering a model to follow. And I think eventually, this will also be compared with other parts of the world. Paul is asking, is there an update or an estimated full '22 power costs given recent EU ruling on the Spanish pricing change protocols. Well, here, I will have to refrain just in case someone from the government is listening. But the Spanish government has agreed to cap the gas prices. The gas constitutes, more or less, is really the indicator of the electricity prices, the marginal producer. So the gas prices in Europe have gone from typical 30, 40 to around 300 in the -- with a war, no, to 180 in the war. Now they went down to 80, 90, and the Spain and Portugal were able to reduce this to 40. But what was not published is that they had also agreed with the suppliers of electrical companies to compensate them for these losses. So on the first days that this law came into production -- or into operation, the electrical prices were very high because they were coincident with 2 weeks very high heat wave in Spain, and it was like no change. So we're still in the $200 -- EUR 200 per tonnes per megawatt. Now with the heat wave gone, we are around EUR 150 and going down. We expect it to get to the EUR 120 in -- during '22. Long term, all the features are pointing towards a [ 40, 60 ] because Spain is very strong in wind and growing and in solar and growing. And also because we are not really dependent on the gas of Ukraine, but the gas of imported LNG. So long term, I see it -- we have seen it in the EUR 50 range. In the short term, the last 6 months, probably in the range of EUR 120, EUR 130, we still double than it was last year. Last year, we had around EUR 60. How will a strong dollar affect your business? Well, it's better for us because the cost, the exchange rate last year was around 1.17. This year has been averaging around 1.05. Around 70% of our costs are in euros. So it means a weaker euro is better. So that's kind of compensating a little bit our cost. The other things that are in dollars are the TCs, RCs, the refining costs and transport costs, and also the shipping costs, which have gone up quite a lot due to the price of fuel. Having said that, also a lower euro is bad for the country. It means that our list price, which we import is higher than, I would say, normal. List price has more than doubled in the last year, which is bad for the mining costs. David is asking, mining in Spain has the political landscape view changed, early days of even a hostile and lack of trust. Well, look, EMED was a special case, EMED was a company that probably with good hopes and good intentions, but bad -- probably lack of knowledge. The reality is that within these days where EMED was trying to permit, the mines of [indiscernible] were permitted, including the tailings, the mine of Las Cruces was up and running 700 meters from a motorway, having to move a river and just in the outskirts of [ Seville ]. I was working in a mine in the North part of Spain using [indiscernible] on top of a village and on the river. So at the end, it's not -- I mean, that legend of having a hostile, let's say, landscape against mining is not that quite. There was -- everybody knows the problems of Berkeley trying to permit uranium, open pit in Salamanca after having a positive environment impact statement they got. They didn't get the final ruling. But it's uranium, it's open pit. So I don't think it's more different than what will have happened in any other place, except Canada, which is in [indiscernible] or maybe Namibia. The rest will be quite challenging. So I don't think there's such a hostile to the contrary. We have been told that we are going to be included in the case of Touro as a priority project. So eventually, this will speed up permitting. In Andalucía, we are already included mining. It's already included in this priority projects. So it's been pushed. Recently, we had elections in Andalucía and a conservative party, which is in favor, has won full majority. So we are going to enjoy -- we believe we are going to enjoy 4 years of stability at least. And also recently, the extreme leftist party, which is in coalition in this Spanish parliament, Podemos, has tried to pass a law against -- not against, to change the mining law, which will affect very badly. And this has been rejected. Other parliament, including their own partners. So there's not such an anti-mining thing in Spain except for some people that are very noisy. Richard is asking, is the Board considering installing wind turbines as an alternative additional source of energy? Yes, this has been discussed at the Board level. We have installed already some -- we're in the process of installing some measurement at high altitude, but we already have a pre-feasibility study based on measurements on site. This would be -- this will include the installation, very likely installation of 4 turbines behind the hill of [indiscernible], which will produce around 18% of the energy needs. It will also be for self-consumption, which means we'll not be going to the net -- public network, which will mean also less taxes. And of course, if that is finally approved and installed, we are still in the final measurement phase. It will mean that our company will have over 50% of clean energy for self-consumption, plus another 30% of a long-term purchase agreement with the electrical company. Paul is asking what thresholds achieved would tell you the time was ripe to upgrade your listing? Well, we are in the process of changing the domicile from Cyprus to London to the company. This is very well advanced and very soon, as soon as all the paperwork is finished, we will have a new AGM specifically to change this domicile to London. And after that, we will go and list in the main market and delist from Canada. Eric is asking, could you give you an indication at this point if the dividend of any quantum will be announced in August? Well, it's -- I don't know if I can say anything before August. But I think so far, there's no indication that we have changed our policy of giving between 30% or 50% of our free cash flow back to our shareholders. And so far, there's no change. So I believe between now and August, unless there's something extraordinary, we believe that we will continue with our policy. David is asking, Spanish strikes knowing you, you will be stocking up raw materials and spare parts. How many days we'll be able to operate when Spain strikes again? Well, we don't know. But the only issue we have here is lime, Lime we only have like 5 days of storage, and that's the maximum we could probably have. Normally, that will be the case if it affects transport because normally, the strikes do not go to everything. The country will not -- they will not stop. Otherwise, spares, everything we have enough for even months, if not years. So I don't think strikes will affect at all. And well, I think people have got tired of making -- asking questions so I'm very happy. Any question here, present, anybody? No? Well, thank you very much for this interest. And again, please, I want to insist a lot -- thanks to the shareholders, to their long support that we really appreciate. Also thanks to my people, thanks to the team. They are incredible. They're really doing a good job. And look, this company has a lot of future. And we have come a long way. So we are not going to stop now. Thanks. And I think we can finish the meeting.

Fantastic, Alberto, Roger, [indiscernible], thank you very much for updating attendees for today's AGM. Can I please ask attendees not to close this session, you will automatically be redirected to provide your feedback so the Board can better understand your views and expectations. This will only take a moment to complete, and it is greatly valued by the company. On behalf of the Board of Atalaya Mining Plc, I would like to thank you for attending today's AGM proceedings. Thank you very much. And that concludes today's session.