Atalaya Mining Copper, S.A. (ATYM) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon, and welcome to the Atalaya Mining Plc Q2 and H1 2023 Financial Results Investor Presentation. Throughout this recorded presentation, investors will be in a listen-only mode. [Operator Instructions] Before we begin, I'd like to send the following poll. And I'd now like to hand you to Alberto Lavandeira, CEO. Good afternoon, sir.

Going to go through the -- you have seen the results in the press release. And again, to summarize, we had a good quarter. I would say a quarter with 14,200 tonnes of copper basically is setting us in the right target to get to the -- our plans for around 53,000 to 55,000 tonnes of copper at the end of the year. Volume costs all-in sustaining costs have been good, have been much lower than we have had in the first quarter and much lower, of course, than the equivalent quarter last year. And so far, it looks like we are fully on track to get to this production of around 54,000 tonnes of copper with all-in sustaining costs between $3 and $3.20, likely in the low end of these costs if things continue like they were. EBITDA this quarter has been around EUR 16 million with a little bit lower than the first quarter with better cash costs, and there were some known cash adjustments due to the quotational periods of previous quarters that have impacted the EBITDA. Even so, the EBITDA -- the half of the year, around EUR 40 million is quite a healthy one. One of the reasons of this is that the electricity prices are substantially lower than previous year, around 60% lower, and they continue to trend lower. Right now in August, we are still slightly higher than the previous months due to the holiday season in Spain and the lack of wind but still much lower, substantially lower than they were in the previous year. We continue to do some investments in the 2 main projects, which are in the solar plant in our operation and the construction of the Phase 1 of the E-LIX. And even so after these investments, we could bring back debt of around EUR 30 million. We continue to have a strong net cash position of close to EUR 70 million. And this was one of the reasons why after the meeting of the Board, the Board decided to declare an interim dividend for the first part of '23, consistent with our policy between 30% and 50% of the free cash flow. And we decided to give another $0.05 per share and I would go over the details of payment a bit later. Another important thing of this quarter where we finally delisted from Toronto. It was an unnecessary expense cost that we decided to remove because really it was not giving us any liquidity. From the assets point of view, from the construction point of view, we continue to construct, as I said before, E-LIX and then the solar plant. And we have been giving some announcements which we were interested -- first interested. The first was where we announced the results of the PEA of Riotinto, but we also got some authorizations of projects of Masa Valverde project environmental authorization and also the environmental authorization to continue expansions of Riotinto including payments bond. The work in Touro is slow, but it's continuing permitting-wise. And related to Touro, we continue working with the water treatment at Touro and the rivers cleaning and the news coming from Watsa project from the society and our stakeholders are all very positive. So going a little bit into the details of this to the quarter, can't behave normally at a rate of close to 15.5 million tonnes per year, good recoveries of [indiscernible], which were higher in previous quarters and getting back to our levels of 87%, 88%. And recover production, as I said before, with decent concentrate grades were around 40,000 tonnes. Even if we have a slightly grade, which was 0.4, which is probably slightly lower than we had expected, but this was compensated by the higher recovery. As a result of that, slightly lower sales, obviously, due to the lower copper prices. EBITDA, I mentioned before, slightly lower due to this noncash adjustments but with growing operating cash flow of around EUR 20 million and left us with a net cash position, which was better than the previous quarter. And of course, this results in a good cash position and good balance sheet, which you will see in Slide 9, we had a cash position of around EUR 113 million and net cash of around EUR 70 million with a nice working capital surplus of EUR 81 million, even after these investments and -- that we have been doing in E-LIX and solar plus exploration and plus permitting of Touro. So overall, I would say that we had a very good performance and we continue to deliver in our plans. Part of this improvement came as a result of the decrease of the electricity prices. You will note in Slide 10, the decrease of the equivalent quarter of around EUR 300 per megawatt hour back in 2022 in the third quarter, and we are now less than -- a little bit less than EUR 100 per megawatt hour. So it's a huge decrease and this is one of the reasons why the results are better -- the operating results are better, the financial results are better. Of course, the gas prices also have a reflection in other things like line production and even explosive prices where explosive prices have been decreasing from around EUR 1.50 per kilo to around EUR 1 per kilo. This is reflected in the detailed breakdown of cash costs that we see in Slide 11. We have been starting to give the breakdown of these costs during the last few quarters. And you can see, comparing with previous quarter and compared with the full year, how the mining has been reduced significantly, almost $0.10 per pound from equivalent quarter of last year, and that was due to the high diesel price, high explosive price. And in the processing, the plant treatment is really where you can see the big difference. Cost of $0.82, it's significantly lower than what we had at $1.31 in last year and even lower than what we had in the first quarter. This is mainly due to the reduction in prices -- slight reduction in prices in line, but the reduction in electricity price. The [indiscernible] in other sites, which is health and safety, administration, purchases, all these things, laboratory and the auxiliary services, water, are more or less constant, same, slightly lower than it used to be in the last year. But other than that, we can see that overall, we have a reduction in site operating costs of almost $0.50 per pound compared to previous year. Just to give you an idea, we are producing more or less 120 million pounds per year. This is equivalent to around $60 million, this reduction in operating costs. Freight has also reduced a little bit due to the reduction in freight charges, $0.05. So overall, all cash costs are $2.60, which are in the low end of our guidance. And I would remind those listening that this cash costs, specifically in mining, include the capital cost of replacement of the mining fleet, which is taken care by the mining contractor. So this is something that not very often and that mining companies have their own -- normally, mining companies have their own mining fleet, and they have to replace the fleet once in a while. We don't have that case. And normally that's included in all-in sustaining costs, which also were substantially lower, again, around $0.50 per pound than previous year. Again, how this compare with others. Well, normally, we had this slide in the back end of the presentation. In this slide, we put all interesting costs of peers, companies, based on public information of it. And in the left side of each of the columns is the quarter-by-quarter. So basically, it's more recent quarters on the left side of each of the [ files ]. One of the things you will notice is in the last 6 quarters, our all-in costs have been going down constantly unlike lots of other peers where you can see that the costs have been continuing to go higher for whatever it is -- for whatever reasons. But this is something that we like to make some emphasis because often, Atalaya is considered a high-cost producer. And we don't think we are not a low-cost producer, obviously, but we do wonderful things with what we have. So this is a good comparison to see what you have in the market. So how does it look this year? Well, it looks normal, I would say. I won't say boring normal, but I would say normal. Copper grade, we are right now in the low end of our guidance. But anyway, we are in the higher end of the copper recovery. So then these things are compensating one each other. We believe we are in the low end of cash cost. So cash costs will be closer to $2.60 and all-in costs to $3 or under per pound. So in theory, consistently under our guidance, and the guidance of production will be around 54,000 tonnes of copper. Obviously, this is assuming that the electricity prices continue as they are. It looks like the tendency is going down once the summer is out and except the recent days where the gas prices in Europe have jumped a little bit due to some uncertainty of supplies. The reality is that it looks like Europe, and specifically Spain, is already not reliant at all in the gas prices coming from Russia and the stores are over 80% well before they were supposed to be before the winter. So it looks like we're in a good position. We will continue to invest in E-LIX and in exploration and in solar. It looks like the capital costs of E-LIX is going higher due to several reasons, but mainly being a new technology and being done in a very, I would say, in a way that's not fast track due to the technology being applied for the first time. So we have a slight lag, which only means that we have a slightly higher capital costs. Besides all this, as I said, the behavior of the company has been doing quite well. So the Board decided to give a dividend of $0.05 per share, around 4p per share. The record date will be 25th of August, so a couple of weeks, and the payment will be more or less at the end of September. We realize that this is -- we have just paid the first part of the -- the last part of the dividend of last year just days ago, weeks ago, but we wanted to be consistent with what we did last year. So the reason of this is to abide Cyprus law. The dividend -- the final dividend has to be approved by the AGM, which sets the date of this final payment date, June approval. So by the time you pay, you end up paying in August. And we decided to declare interim dividend each 6 months and then have the final dividend once we know the final results of '23. So we continue to -- we continue with our policy as we stated, of paying 30% to 50% of the cash flow generated during the year. And unless there is investment needed at certain time, short notice, we will continue with this policy, of course. For '23 -- I think for '23, we have 2 things that we have to finish. First finish with E-LIX which is advancing all the equipment on site. They are assembling pipes, cable, lots of activity in the ground. And our target is to have some feel of concentrate before the end of the year. So likely to be in the fourth quarter, and we are pushing and trying to help Lain Technologies as much as we can. In the case of the solar plant, we also have some delays with the final license of Riotinto village. Right now, there's lots of work going on the ground by installing the supports, the cables. We have all the equipment on the transformer of [indiscernible]. This solar plant is divided in 2 areas, the one in the North and one in the South. The one in the North is smaller, close to the plant, and we are trying to start the connection of that at the end of the year, maybe worse first month of '24. So a small delay, but still advancing very well. Besides that, we continue to do all the studies and all the work, the tail, the work, the tail permitting to get some initial into production as soon as possible. And initially, as you may recall, this is basically the pushback of the pit that you've seen in picture 17 in the left corner. In the bottom corner, there's one drill rig, which we continue with drilling with 3 rigs in Ossa Morena -- sorry, in Masa Valverde, 2 rigs in Ossa Morena and one rig in Riotinto East and we will continue. There is a small slowdown in summer, but we're completing this due to the effect -- the restrictions of forest fires. We will have to do a lot of things during this extreme heat wave that we have right now in Spain. But besides that, we will continue drilling normally in these exploration sites. The right side is some expressions of Touro. In Touro, the activities there are all related to engaging with the authorities. They're helping them looking through the papers. All the papers have been presented. And we are waiting to see some decision after the summer period. In summer, everything goes to sleep, at least in administration. And -- but so far, the reception of the project and the local support has been excellent, including some public support by authorities and by associations recently in the newspapers. In summary -- I've just gone through all these things. In summary, we still have a very busy year. And our goal is to get our company on track to get to over 100,000 tonnes of copper produced first with the addition of production from San Dionisio area for Riotinto and second, with the addition of Touro that can get us over 120,000 tonnes. We believe in the copper market, we believe that we are -- the market will change. We know there is a slowdown in the consumption in China from internal consumption, although the energy transition is requiring more and more copper. The stocks are low. We see what's happening with big companies like CODELCO going down. So we don't know when, but for sure, it will happen at least a certain time where copper will have to go up and significant -- copper prices have to up significantly to incentivize new projects, either brownfield or greenfield . We are -- as part of that, we are one of the few copper producers in London. And we continue with our goal to be listed in the main market as soon as possible. We are doing all the work. And I believe there's a question about that at the question and answer, and we will give you how that is progressing. So for those of you that do not know much about us, we are in Europe, stable, consistent, best practices. We have a growth pipeline, very clear. We have demonstrated that in the past years. We never stopped. We have an excellent team that continue to deliver, continue to do always improvements in operation, in new installations [indiscernible] of cost exploring. And really, these are a low-cost proposition and low-risk proposition on copper. And with that, I would say that the best thing is to go to the question and answer.

[Operator Instructions] I'd like to remind you that a recording of this presentation along with a copy of the slides and the published Q&A can be accessed via our investor dashboard. As you can see, we've received questions throughout today's presentation. And if I could just ask you to read out those questions and give response to it if it's appropriate to do so. I'll pick up from you at the end.

So if I may start reading some of the questions we have received. What is delaying the transfer to the main FTSE change? I think I will pass this to Cesar, which is handling the contacts with lawyers in the sponsor bank, et cetera, and he can give you all the details.

Thank you, Alberto. Hello, everyone. So I -- we have no delays on the process. I think it's been very clear from the company to say that being listed in the main market, it's been more on a strategic objective for the company, a good goal to achieve. And we have, over the last year, we had some issues by migrating the company to the U.K. and thus [indiscernible] for some tax rates and that's why, we called off that process. But we continue with the process and to be listed in the main market. And the people need to understand that there are some complexities on the different work streams that we need to work on. But as Alberto mentioned, we are working on it. We continue working very hard to get it done as soon as possible and there is some complexity that we need to overcome. But I wouldn't expect any delay. Things are progressing quite well. And hopefully, we can give you a little bit more information -- detailed information once we continue our discussions with regulator and with the different work stream that we have.

There's another question saying how much production should we expect from E-LIX in '23 minimum and '24? Will it be mostly zinc or some copper too. I think to be fair, in '23, I will be very happy if we simply start treating concentrates and we get on top of my table some ingots of zinc or cathodes of copper. Initially, we will start with zinc. We will start treating that we have already identified some areas with zinc and copper, where we will be floating and producing a global concentrate. And from this global concentrate copper-zinc, we will leach out the zinc without touching the copper or minimum touching the copper and that copper will be sold and the zinc will be sold as a byproduct. So in '23, due to the delays that they have, I think, minimum. In '24, I would say that it depends on how when they start [indiscernible]. I would say that mostly would be zinc, maybe some copper, but mostly will be zinc because that's where we will concentrate and I would be happy if we get to the range of 70% of the, I would say, 7,000 tonnes, 8,000 tonnes of zinc. I would be very happy with that. And then where this value -- the value of this plant comes from is to be able to recover zinc that otherwise is not recoverable. And when we have seen copper, we were able to have much higher recoveries of both in places where we have very complex metal. Specifically, there are some deposits in the [indiscernible], some of them owned by us where the grain is very fine and you have to grind down to 20 microns or less in order to recover copper and sometimes even the copper, you can only get 70% or 60% of copper. Using E-LIX, we have demonstrated we can be that. So this is the main goal of it. By the way, this plan that we are building, it's -- it has capacity to treat 3,000 tonnes of copper and 10,000 tonnes of zinc. But the reality is with minimum additions, we'll be able to treat double that. So the space, the building, the CCMs, the transformers, the electrolysis, everything except the tanks and filters, like the [indiscernible] are all over the same to almost double. So with a minimum investment, we will be able to produce more and treat more. But initially, answering the question will be mostly zinc. Copper will be only to test it and demonstrate it. A lot of things. What are your latest thoughts on potential for regional consolidation in Iberian Pyrite Belt. Well, my latest thoughts have always been the same. It's not latest. It's really what I believe it should happen in some way. There are several projects going on and several companies going on. And I think the eventually we will have to see what are the synergies of each part. We have a couple of companies in Portugal. We have 2 or 3 producing while it's only one in Spain and in Sevilla and another 2 that can come. So eventually, I think we'll probably do something together. I think '24 will be an interesting year, especially we get the technology of E-LIX working as we expect because certainly, that will open -- let's say that we will open the doors for doing something together with [indiscernible]. There's one question here that there has been some trends that there can be a situation where too hot can be bad for solar and risky for us. It is true. It is true that when it's too hot, the performance of the solar panels are lower than in clear spring days but simply a smaller performance. For example, in Spain right now, if you look at the -- anyone who looks at the charts, Spain will probably be producing during sunny days around 70% from solar. So there's no risk. Simply the performance is lower when it is very hot. But that depends a lot on the wind and [indiscernible] the situation. But so far, Spain is producing normally quite well. What impact will weak U.S. dollar have on the company in the future? Well, our operating costs are around 70% denominated in euros. So the exchange rate of dollars in euros has a direct influence with us. So depending how is the exchange rate euro to dollar, a weak euro is better for us in 70% of the cases. So that will -- whatever deterioration of the U.S. dollar will probably mean higher operating cost for us. But having said that, we also have to look at what would happen with the metal prices because normally, there is a correlation with that with the metal prices. So normally, metal prices go up when those things happen. Another question is our debt situation is very strong. There is a chance that some of our competitors may struggle. Any talks advancing with possible targets who may not have a strong balance sheet? Well, we continue to look at targets in Spain, in Europe and in other presence of the world, provided it makes sense. Not only we have a strong balance sheet, but we have -- especially, we have a healthy position from a debt point of view because we don't have a project debt and we don't have royalties or streams. So this -- yes, it's an advantage. And when discussing with potential acquisition targets, this together with our demonstrated capability to get things done with minimum capital cost has been a plus, and we will try to continue using that to our advantage. But so far, we have not closed anything, but we continue having talks always with targets provided the right price. We don't like to overpay. Another question is, can you give us a split of CapEx spending during the quarter on the E-LIX and solar projects? Cesar, do you have the details there in front of you? I have it also, but I have to open them.

Yes, I do. So for the solar plants, we spent around EUR 2.8 million during the quarter and for E-LIX, EUR 2.1 million. Yes, so these are the amount we spent in the quarter [indiscernible].

There's another question, interesting question. We appreciate the dividend. But with the share price so low, what do you think the company is worth. Do you switch to share buybacks? This is something that we have discussed at the Board. And really, it's a good point because we could buy our shares back because there is a good investment. But there was a lot of discussion, and we thought that one of the problems could be that we will drive the limited liquidity. There is -- one of the reasons why our share doesn't move is that people that hold it, they don't want to sell at these prices. So yes, we have thought on that, but so far, we decided not to do it for the moment. Another question, say, listed in other markets, where is the thinking now, U.K., Spain? Are you aware that dual listed can cause a negative effect on share price through arbitration of dual listed shares -- of dual listed share class, [indiscernible] for years. Cesar, you want to get that? Maybe thinking of U.K. and Spain the advantage and disadvantage of each?

Yes. So we're looking at all the options. So as you might be aware of, we are currently a CPF entity. Now being listed in the main market, as we are trying to pursue and being incorporated in Cyprus might have some issues to be included in the FTSE Russell index. And this is why we're looking to move the company to other locations or at least we're trying to understand what the options are. If we migrate the company to Spain, as an example, we will be able to be listed in the main market and be included in the FTSE Russell index. But this is only if you're not listed in Spain. So if you're dual listed in Spain and in the U.K. and you are Spanish incorporated entity, you might have some limitation to be included in the FTSE. At the end of the day, the goal -- the main goal is to be listed in the main market to be included in the FTSE Index to provide more liquidity to the shares and hopefully help the share price to go up. And this is where we look at all these options. But for the time being, the [indiscernible] currently being progressing on is continuing to be listed in the main market and looking at the possibility of migrating the company to another Europe country. But -- yes, but that's the thinking about the dual listing. So we need to be very cautious in terms of our being listed in another country, if you want to be included in the FTSE, which I think it will be good for the company.

There's another question here. Can you provide some more detail on permitting status to begin mining [indiscernible]? How is the process expected to back up production next year? Well, the time, with permits, you never know. We have submitted the small modifications of the mining of the pit, the moving on the road, which is -- this has gone through public consultation. We believe what other things needed there. We need to move electric line, we need to move the roads, we need to get the permit to mine specifically there. We believe we could get into some mining pursuit even this year or early part of next year. How much is that going to impact the copper production next year, I really don't know. Not much being the first year. I would say not much. How do you think about the time line for [indiscernible] approvals. Is it the next 12 months or 5 years, more like 5 years? No, certainly, will be less than 12 months without any question. Right now, in fact, due to some changes in the laws that have happened in theory, the mining authorities should provide an environmental impact statement within the next 6 months of receiving the papers. So even with delays that are created by the lots of questions by the anti-mining groups as they try to slow down the process always. For example, last time, we were almost 1 year in public information. Probably, it should have been only 1 month. But the way things are going, I think we'll be -- certainly during the next 12 months. Where will you expect the impact of [indiscernible] in '23, '24? I think, as I said before, in '23, only moving some waste in '24 [indiscernible] is something, but I cannot tell you how much in production. I will miss a little bit. Our target will be to try to get some more high rate sooner rather than later in '24 but I cannot give you the numbers right now. On exploration activities, can you please give me the detail on the work you have been doing in H1 and what will the exploration products are going forward? Where are you seeing the most potential to add value in the business to exploration? That's an interesting question because we are not doing infill drilling at any site. So we are -- we know that we have some good grades in Masa Valverde, copper, zinc. What we are doing is checking this will not change the [indiscernible]. What we are doing is risky exploration at Masa Valverde, taking 2 lateral zones, 2 parallel zones to Masa Valverde which I call Campanario and other one is called [indiscernible]. In all of them, we have cut sulfides. Some are better grades than others, and it's a matter of following this kind of mineralized levels. The good thing here is that we have proven that the [indiscernible] system, especially [indiscernible], ground level works well, combined with gravity and we are systematically testing. Sometimes, we all intersect [indiscernible], sometimes it's [indiscernible], sometimes it's just [indiscernible], but that is the way. Potential. I think the best potential is to find another deposit like has been done in the parallel bets. I mean, there have been new discoveries, one place called Elvira, another one called Magdalena, which is a major world-class deposit, which was only a few kilometers away from existing known deposits. So that's -- it's a matter of, I would say, with persistence and luck. We had EUR 10 million in exploration budget and we've recently hired the former exploration manager that was responsible of several discoveries in the Pyrite Belt, and we will continue that way. Once we get the permits of Touro, we also intend to start a big exploration program there because mineralization remains open in basically all the directions. Does Atalaya have any assets outside of Spain left over the [indiscernible]? Nothing left. We still have some shares of [indiscernible] mining that the previous management of [indiscernible] decided to invest -- self-invest and basically, the value is asymptotic towards 0. So it's going that and besides that, we don't have anything. Can you please give some a little more color on the tax issues with moving to the main market and a firmer time line. Cesar, you can -- I think you have the [indiscernible].

Yes. Just to be clear, there are no tax issues to move to the main market. So the tax issues arise when we try to migrate the company from Cyprus to the U.K., and that was basically as a result that the U.K. law doesn't admit to the domiciliation process. And therefore, we need to incorporate the U.K. entity and that U.K. entity will make an offer to buy all the shares of the recipient entity. And that offer will trigger some taxes in Spain to all the shareholders of Atalaya Mining Plc. But again -- and this is why the reason why we call off the process of migrating the company from Cyprus to the U.K., and there is no question on that. So -- but migrating the company from Cyprus to Spain has no tax issues and listing the move up from Spain to the main market has no tax issue. There's no [indiscernible] for the company. So we don't have any tax issue for the current project and all the taxes were related to the U.K. [indiscernible] ratio, which is now enabled.

Okay. What's the relation with the [indiscernible] that came to AGM once in London. We invite her to see the [indiscernible] and you see now a partner rather than a foe? Well, I think they have kind of forgotten us. They have given up. So far, we have been -- they always complain. Even they complain when we were looking for the permits of E-LIX. But they're always trying to complain to the administrative process, not anymore through any environmental reason because really, there is no reasons. So I think the kind of -- we are not a target anymore. What is the current status regarding Touro project? What are the upcoming milestones and any change in view and the probability of receiving the permits in the project? Look, I've been told personally that we will get the permits. So for me, it's a matter of where, not when. Unfortunately, the timing with politicians and civil servants is very slow. They have had -- we have had elections in Spain twice, municipal and national, which created kind of uncertainty. The municipal elections made some changes in the high level at the [indiscernible], the regional government because the former president -- the former minister of industry who was a candidate for one province and had to leave and he was substituted by a young lady. This lady had been -- we have had contacts with her and seems to be quite supportive, simply asked a little bit of time to get through the file but told that whatever she has heard is very positive. Milestones, we will expect to receive some news in September to see if our project is accepted as a project of strategic interest. If this is the case, the time line for permitting [indiscernible] are reduced. If that's not accepted, it doesn't mean anything. It simply means that it goes through the normal route. And what's the next milestone, is starting the public information of the project. In theory, it should be quite straightforward because the last time we presented the papers, we had 15 reports received from administration, 13 were positive and 2 were questionable. And based on these 2, we received a negative environment by [indiscernible]. These 2 departments now are totally positive, and we have been explaining the changes, and they are keen to give a positive report. So I don't see any reason why would be a no at all. And so I think the probabilities are extremely high. The timing is a difficult part because of the anti-mining groups, anti-mining or anti-development or anti-everything. They are also opposing for example, wind mills, although wind is considered a very environmental friendly generation. They're opposing using the legal -- the smaller corners of the law, trying to delay the installation of parts. There are simply people that are trying to slow things and this is something that's worry than the local administration. Because it's just collapsing the administration, the civil servants. So it's something we have to live with and any restriction they are putting in place new laws to streamline permitting and hopefully they give some push to this -- all this permitting not only to us to all the rest of the [indiscernible]. I like this one. Your current target to be GBP 1 million market cap? Of course, I maintain it. That's a minimum. I don't know why we're not much more. There's another question saying anything management can do to increase liquidity? [indiscernible] the Chinese are supportive shareholders, but lack of liquidity keeps shares on the wallet? Well, as you know, the Chinese shareholder has disappeared now and that has been placed into institutions. So now we only have [indiscernible], which is 22% and it's very passive. And the rest are institutions, but nobody wants to sell. I think the liquidity is all coming from private hands. And once in a while, some higher volumes when some distribution wants to buy. Well, we are doing things. We are starting to see investors, family offices in the U.K., in Europe, in Switzerland starting in September because I think the moment we create more buyers that are able to see the value, the shares will move. E-LIX, obviously, we are very excited with this. Are there other process that we can consider investing in? Well, not that I am aware. Investing of E-LIX is kind of unique and it's especially unique for our purposes and for our deposit. Is Atalaya facilities expansion that we [indiscernible] as expected and on budget and for how long will the TSF have capacity? Yes, this is progressing normally and it's totally on budget. We have with the current permits around 10 years of space. And having said that, we will soon start the permitting of a new [indiscernible] facility, downstream of the existing one to be able to hold more capacity and it will be installed in a valley -- narrow valley, which will reduce the CapEx for the future. That one will not have a rush to get permitted, but certainly will mean a lower -- higher capacity for over 150 million tonnes and especially a lower capital and operating costs. I have 2 other questions that came through mail, which normally we don't answer, but I will answer them. Touro, the commentary is the same. Just wondering what has changed in the ground in the last 6 months? Are we any closer to the solution and what are indicators? Well, yes, I mentioned that the main change here is the attitude of the local population. For example, just to give you an idea, last month, we have given -- we have been giving the kind of symbolic pride, symbolic trophy of the gold clam by the fishermen association of the [indiscernible] mouth of the River Ulla, which is a river that goes under Touro -- receive the water of Touro, due to the efforts of cleaning the water and transparency and so on. These same people were some of the people who were opposing in the past. So right now, we are considered friends and we are considered we are doing fantastic job of cleaning the waters of the past, and they don't see us as an enemy at all. This thing is transparent to the local authorities. So we are sponsoring the football team of Santiago and they have nice words to us. And we are asked to be in this forums of green economy and copper economy with -- along with people with car factories, which are happened to be Stellantis has a big factor in Galicia. So the fact that we are seeing as a company for the future, including presentations with the president of the [indiscernible] and the [indiscernible] the minister, I think it's good. I mean, the relation is fantastic. And simply, they tell us that simply they are overloaded with papers. That's the reason for delays, nothing major. And the last one is E-LIX looks like it's taking longer and costing more. What does -- maybe approaching EUR 30 million. What will be a good result for second part of the year? Well, for me, a good result would be to, as I said, to have some concentrate going through and demonstrating that the E-LIX as well, as we have seen in the lab in the pilot plant, having some ingots produced of high purity metals of zinc and cathodes of copper produced in my office. Show them, tell it. And yes, it's going to cost for us, as I said between our involvement and things that we have done and support and loans and accounting for everything probably, yes, approaching the EUR 30 million. And the last question I have here, what is Atalaya ranking as a copper producer in Spain? Obviously, many are not listed. So I think well, there are not many producing companies now because they used to be one which was Las Cruces, which is First Quantum, but they stopped the production this year. In June, I think they stopped total production. And the next phase requires a big investment producing around 40,000 tonnes of copper. The best producer is Sandfire with MATSA Complex, which produces around 80,000 tonnes of copper. And then there is a small producer in the north part of Spain, around 10,000 tonnes of copper and lots of other projects, but not big producers anyway. So in Spain, yes, we are the second. Well, I think I don't see any more questions. So I will pass it back to you.

Alberto and Cesar, I think you've addressed all those questions from investors. And of course, the company will review all the questions submitted today and will publish those responses on the Investor Meet Company platform. But just before redirecting the investors to provide with their feedback, which I know particularly important to the company, Alberto, could I just ask you for a few closing comments.

Thank you. Then as usual, thank you for your continued support. I'd like to see some names in the questions. We continue to deliver. It's hard because [indiscernible] frustrated to see that the share price does not respond and the lack of liquidity. Maybe it's our fault, but I think it's eventually it will come. I think people still are thinking that the electricity prices are still high, and we will continue to have high cost, and we just demonstrate the opposite. We will continue to perform. We will deliver in what we are doing. This year, we'll end up having some distinct E-LIX, which is going to be transformational for the company. And hopefully, we can also advance Touro very close to production. So we're in a good path, and thank you very much for your support in being there. I mean on one side, I hate not having liquidity, but in the other side, I see, well, nobody wants to sell these prices. So everybody must be happy. So thanks a lot to all of you.

Alberto and Cesar, thank you once again for updating investors today. Could I please ask investors not to close the session. As you know, we automatically redirect to provide your feedback in order that the management team can better understand your views and expectations. This may take a few moments to complete, but I am sure it would be greatly valued by the company. On behalf of the management team with Atalaya Mining Plc, I'd like to thank you for attending today's presentation, and good afternoon to you all.