Atalaya Mining Copper, S.A. (ATYM) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, and welcome to the Atalaya Mining plc 2024 Annual Results Investor Presentation. [Operator Instructions] The company may not be in a position to answer every question received during the meeting itself. However, the company can review all questions submitted today and publish responses where it is appropriate to do so. Before we begin, I would like to submit the following poll. And I would now like to hand you over to CEO, Alberto Lavandeira. Good morning to you.

Good morning. Thank you very much. Good morning, everybody, ladies and gentlemen. Thanks for being here with our review presentation of the annual results of 2024 as well as some details in the last quarter of '24, especially the financial side because the operational side has already been pre-released. I will be following the presentation, which will be available in our web page, if I may. Let me see if I can pull this presentation. With me, I have César Sánchez, the CFO of the company. If there is any detailed question at the end of the presentation in relation to financials or any other detailed -- details and numbers, he would be very happy to reply. I'm not going to read Slide 6, which talks about all the details that we are going to be looking at a little bit later. So I will just say that in general, in this presentation, we'll be looking at operational numbers, the financial results, some corporate activities that we have some things going on during the year, how are some of our assets doing and of course, some -- a few words in sustainability. Let me start with the corporate initiatives and the highlights of 2024. '24, of course, was a kind of a disappointing year, as we said before, from some lower grades in general, although we had a good finish of the year in the last quarter. But although we had some -- it was the first time we had in the last 10 years a reduction of our guidance, a review of our guidance, I think it was quite a good year. In April, we moved to the Main Market, the Main Market in London. And we also -- this January, just a couple of months ago, we moved finally all our resolution from Cyprus to Spain. These things are quite important together because these 2 changes allow us to become eligible for the FTSE index, FTSE Russell Index. And in early March, actually, the review of the index announced that Atalaya will be part of the All-Share Index. And we were very close, very close to be included in the 40 to 50, but for some reasons, we were not included at the very end, but we are there. I'm sure we'll get back. Of course, these things -- index inclusion is important because we believe that they will increase the company visibility to large investors and of course, will increase -- will help in the trading and liquidity. At our operations, things also went very well. As you can see in the slide, you can see the solar plant basically built. It took some time, some delays. But finally, we are very proud to see that this is one of the largest, if not the largest, self-consumption solar plant for industrial activity in Spain and also one of the large ones of the world. It basically provides all our power during sunny hours. And not only will reduce the Atalaya footprint and will provide a stable source of power for Riotinto's operations, but it will also produce around 20%, 22% of our energy needs at our plant once it's fully operational later in the year. Right now, we have like 80% running. But as I always said, one of the big value drivers of the company is Touro, a new project being developed and -- in the north part of Spain, copper project. And in June '24, we were awarded the strategic status for this project by the regional government. This thing streamlines the permitting process. It gives -- basically gives the regional government 1 year to produce all the reports and permits, which will be due in June. And of course, it can still be some delays if they ask for additional time in some of the departments. But we basically are extremely optimistic. We are quite optimistic that the Touro prospects are for approval. And we expect -- certainly, we expect environmental decision sometime in this year. Of course, last but not least, I mean, there's lots of things going on in our operations. There's a few of them are shown in Slide 7. And of course, permitting of San Dionisio, the pit that's close to our Cerro Colorado operation should be obtained -- is very advanced and should be obtained certainly this year, but really will be obtained probably in the next weeks or months because we have already received some preliminary indications of that. At Masa Valverde, a satellite deposit around 25 kilometers away, we are about to start the construction of a ramp, accessing the high-grade copper zone. And we are just waiting to finalize the acquisition of some surface rights to install the portal, the box cut. We also will see the ramp-up of E-LIX after lots of issues, start-up being a new technology at our installation. And then in addition to that, we have been doing a lot of exploration in our ground, specifically in Masa Valverde area and also in Sweden. And we will be updating the market in due course when -- especially when we finalize the winter drilling campaign in Sweden, which, as you -- probably most of you know, they can only drill in the north -- sorry, in the far north, you can only drill during the winter season because in summer, the ground becomes very muddy and it's a little bit difficult to -- and not operational. You can still do it, but it's not operational. So that's, I would say, the highlights of what happened in '24. Before I continue with the operations, let me give you a few words to sustainability. There's lots of things that we have done. And we will be publishing those in the new report, sustainability report for '24 in the next few weeks. Actually, it has already been approved and the final printing, the glossy version is being printed, and once it's done, we'll be publishing this. We saw some nice improvements in this thing. First of all, accidents. The lost time accidents were reduced. We publish everything. Every small accident, even if it's just a twist on the ankle or a feet or a small thing, and it's quite low, lower than the industry. And I think we are very proud of that safety of our employees is really the most important thing in our operation. But also continue trying to make progress in water and electricity consumption rates. Both have been reduced from previous years, and we will continue doing so. It's always -- it's good for sustainability, but it's also good from the operating point of view. And we continue to be good neighbors. I think one of the good things that we have at Riotinto, and I think we are very proud of is that we have had basically almost 11 years in our operation without the minimum problem being not only accepted but a very welcome partner, a very welcome stakeholder without any strike, without any issues with the local communities. And we have a foundation that makes significant investments in lots of social activities, cultural activities in the areas around Riotinto, around EUR 1 million that go directly to all kinds of things that are really not related to the mine and people welcome it. And of course, we continue purchasing everything from Spanish suppliers, highlighting that we can make a contribution to the local economy. I think those things are very important, especially if we want to continue there for lots of years. Now let's go to the production results in the last quarter and also in the whole year. Well, we had already published the production results, which were 12,078 tonnes of copper, slightly similar, slightly lower than previous year, but certainly an improvement versus previous quarters. And finally, we got better grades, substantially higher grades than the rest of the year and also substantially higher grade than the previous quarter. The tonnes at the plant, the throughput didn't go as well as expected, although we had a kind of record year overall, but we had some issues with -- we had to stop the plant for a while to connect a couple of times the solar plant and that we would have produced slightly higher, but no big deal. We had recoveries that were lower than average and lower than expected including copper concentrate grades. But this is really due to the nature of the ore where we were blending some of the surface material very close to San Dionisio, where we have an interim permit to start a small pit. And you have to adjust reagents. Right now, the only thing I can report is as a whole, we ended well. And what we have seen in the first quarter of '25, 2.5 months so far indicates that we are improving these figures by substantial margin, and we will be well within our guidance so far, at least with what we can see. From those operational results, we can get the financial results. The financial results, the revenue was slightly lower than previous year, basically due to lower production. And the operating costs, it's important that were also lower because the costs per tonne are very similar to previous year. So we were able to maintain the cost per tonne. But of course, you produce a little bit less, your EBITDA is slightly lower. And the profits are better than previous year, but that's due to an impairment reversal in total of around EUR 7 million. Without that, it would have been similar to the previous quarter. This reversal of total is simply because our auditors believe that after the project being clear of strategic interest, those costs that had been written down at certain time for development prior to 2020 decision are -- we are optimistic enough that we believe that those things can be capitalized, so we return them back. So it gives slightly higher profits. Investments, similar to the previous year. And even with these lower production numbers, we ended with a very strong balance sheet, including EUR 35 million in net cash, which is -- and without debt, which is significant, very good position. As a general review of the whole year, very similar to what I just mentioned for the whole quarter. The revenues were slightly lower due to the lower sales, but good cost control. The good cost control that we have, you can see that actually our operating costs were lower even with the fact that we treated more tonnes. So our cost per unit per tonne has been lower. We have made a big effort to even fight inflation. The EBITDA decrease is much more modest than the revenue decrease. As a result of that, we had operating cash flow of EUR 53 million, which helped us still invest EUR 66 million across our business, which includes the solar plant, the E-LIX, the exploration in Sweden in Valverde and maintaining a very good balance sheet. Looking at the breakdown of our costs, as you know, we provide always good guidance and very detailed guidance on how we do. And you can see that all-in costs and the site operating costs were slightly higher than previous years. But this is due, as I said before, to the lower production. So the cost per unit were similar. But when you consider that we had also always some, let's call it, a good luck or a little bit better behavior on the -- some other things, for example, the byproduct credits. When we were treating low-grade copper at the pit, we saw since about 2 years ago, 1.5 years ago that we had an area with high silver content where we could blend it. Without much copper, we can blend it in through the plant and produce some additional silver, which is helping with around $0.20 with our byproduct credits. So overall, our cash cost is similar -- lower than previous year, and we have been able to maintain a quite decent cash cost even considering that we have this lower production. So these silver grades have helped a lot to offset. But -- and in the -- we always report all-in sustaining costs. We believe this is the honest way to do it simply because we are capitalizing a lot of our stripping because we are moving more material to open the pit and to avoid any future problems. And with that, our all-in costs were around $3.26 for the year, slightly higher than previous years, but still quite good considering the lower production of the year. So with that, how do we look? We always like to compare ourselves with -- try to be competitive, try to be constant. And here, we have -- we are showing some of benchmark compared with other peers. We believe that our all-in sustaining costs, which is the right measure to measure your operation, are competitive and are within the industry guidance considering our position. And we have been fighting inflation. And in the long run, we expect that this -- the evolution of this all-in cost is going to be positive and going lower. Why? Because we are going to be producing higher grade, which reduces some more production, reduces your all-in costs. We are also seeing in the future a good evolution of the treatment charges, which expect to be quite lower this year, in '25 onwards due to the lack of concentrates in the world. And also, we expect to see also a reduction of energy prices. So with that, how do we see the year? We have been giving some guidance, which we believe is conservative, but we prefer to be conservative and say, look, this is what we believe we are going to be achieving. Around 50,000 tonnes of copper in the year. So far, the indication in the first quarter, the year has started quite well. So this is encouraging. The cash costs, we expect to have them a little bit lower than '24. And the all-in costs, we will have slightly similar to '24 simply because we are going to be having around $0.20 of capitalized stripping at Cerro Colorado. We need to do that because we want to open the pit to make sure we have lots of fronts available for blending and be able to have a constant feed at the plant, which is good for recoveries, good for grades, and we'll be able to blend with the material coming from San Dionisio, which is slightly more complex, although higher grade. We will be doing investments in San Dionisio, which will include a big pushback of the -- basically the hill. I will show you a picture a little bit later, which also includes moving of a road, and I also tell you how this is progressing very well. We also start the ramp -- access ramp to Masa Valverde going towards the high-grade copper zone that we have identified there. We have to finalize some works in the solar plant to be able to make it -- to have it produce at full capacity as well as continue with the tailings expansion. So overall, it's going to be a very busy year, but very interesting. Looking at the -- itself and some of the big investments, everybody asks us about what's the progress on San Dionisio. You can see in the picture that actually the mining is progressing well. And what we are waiting is for a final permit basically to remove the hill that you see on the left side, which is imminent. In the meantime, we are mining with an interim pit that you can see there. And this contains much higher grades. And of course, we need to make -- to move a lot of movement of around 30 million tonnes in order to get to the main area. This is the big part. We are in the last part of the administration to complete all the permitting stage. We want to make sure that things are done correctly. And -- but as I said, we don't expect any issues. We will continue right now. It's not affecting us at all with the blending of our existing operations. As part of that, we are already advancing the move of the road. This road basically is behind the pit. You can see it very clear at the far end, a white area is the solar plant. The road just goes around the pit. As you can see, it is very advanced and very neat and very nice, and we will expect to be finishing this road during this year. By the way, this road has been moved several times. So I know some people were -- had questions, we were able to move on a national road, you can see we are, and this is what we are doing right now. We have the permits. We will be providing updates of how the work progresses as we go through the year. Another important thing we are going to be starting is an access ramp to Masa Valverde. Remind you that Masa Valverde is a set of group of deposits of BMS deposits. The main one is Masa Valverde shown in the picture at the left, very left. And in the right-hand picture, it's also shown on the right, is the deeper one. It contains massive sulfides, polymetallic, but in one of the areas, it contains high-grade copper. This is the area where we are defining with infill drilling from surface. And this satellite deposit is located around 25 kilometers straight line, around 30 kilometers by road. We are in the -- basically in the final stages of getting the land to install the portal with all the permits. And after that, we will very likely start to drive the ramp as soon as possible. This year, we will be giving updates of the final drilling in this copper zone in our plans. But this is something that's going on already as we speak. And then, of course, we will continue unlocking some value in E-LIX, which is working right now treating copper zinc concentrates with high content of zinc. By the way, in the picture that you can see aerial picture that you see in the slide right now. In the left side, you can see the road also around the plant from another view. An important thing is Touro. Touro is going to be the big value driver of the company. The public consultation has been completed in January. There's lots of support. Of course, there's allegations against the project by the opposition as expected and -- like in any democratic country, but we have also had thousands of supports, written supports. We are quite active in that, and we believe we are going to be getting the permits this year, sometime midyear. This project is -- has some very good attributes compared to Riotinto. And I think it's important to mention how does it compare. It has a production of around 30,000 compared to around 50,000 of Riotinto. The CapEx is going to be around EUR 250 million (sic) [ $250 million ] . So we are talking about a capital intensive around $10,000 per tonne. This is very low compared to what's around the world. And there are reasons for that. The reason is that the project is located in a place with very good infrastructure, 4-lane motorway running just 4 kilometers north, 3 ports, people, trained people house heavy industry in the region. Some of the equipment that we manufactured for the Riotinto project was built in this part of the area. And so that drives the capital intensity quite -- to a quite good and competitive number compared to other projects in the world. And besides that, it has a low strip ratio, slightly lower than Riotinto. It has a better copper grade, better recovery, better concentrate grade, which results in higher payability with no penalties at all. So the concentrate is going to be a premium concentrate with a good demand from traders and smelters. And it's a softer -- slightly softer. It's not a soft material, but it's slightly softer than Riotinto, which means it will consume less watts, less energy and less explosives and also the haulage distance is quite low. We are not guiding yet the all-in sustaining cost, but I can advance you that will be below the all-in sustaining cost of Riotinto, probably in the order of around $1 per pound. So it's really quite good. So where are we going to focus in this year? Well, lots of work ahead. Continue stripping in San Dionisio, get the final permits, basically to get them out of the way, not because they are too much of a problem. Start the development to the ramp of Touro, obtain the final permits at Touro, finalize the commissioning and ramp-up of E-LIX, finalize the full capacity at the solar plant, although it's not so relevant anyway anymore. And let's see if we can make some new discoveries in -- either in Sweden or in Spain. So we have lots of things going on. But of course, the big conclusion is that this company is a growth company. At the end, we are going -- we are talking about having around 52,000 tonnes of capacity with our existing Cerro Colorado pit. But just treating the stockwork area at Riotinto, where we have in -- so only the upper part, it's only copper and also only copper in the area of Masa Valverde. So these 2 areas do not require any additional change in the circuit of the mine. So basically, [indiscernible] mine and dump it there, that can give additional 10,000 tonnes of copper without any additional CapEx or relative CapEx. We will need a special addition of zinc circuit in the future to get the polymetallic phase, which can drive us another 20,000 tonnes of copper equivalent because it has a combined grade much higher. And of course, we will have the Touro project, which is -- can give around 30,000 tonnes of copper, which will take us over 100,000 tonnes of copper in basically 3 years' time, which is almost doubling our existing production capacity. And this is important because in London, there's -- we are the second largest pure play listed. Obviously, the big one is Antofagasta, which is much larger than us. But anyone who wants to -- with a higher visibility who wants some pure exposure to copper, I think that Atalaya will provide a very good opportunity to invest. So I think this is the conclusion and that we can end before we get into the Q&A. And I'm happy to take some questions now.

Fantastic. Alberto, thank you very much indeed for your presentation. [Operator Instructions] Alberto, as you can see received a number of questions throughout today's presentation. And if I may now hand back to you to chair the Q&A, read out the questions where appropriate to do so, and I'll pick up from you at the end.

Okay. Let me start. I will try to reply to all the questions if we have time as usual. The first question is. Hi, some questions regarding costs. As you expect all-in sustaining cost to increase compared to '24, even you have the PPA and solar operational and some import prices have decreased. Could you provide some insights on this? Additionally, what you would normalize an achievable all-in sustaining cost will be like in the medium term? Well, yes, it's -- we expect a little bit of increase of all-in costs, especially due to the capitalization and -- of the stripping. But PPA and solar, remember that are important, but not so relevant. Basically, our cost of electricity is around not even $2 per tonne of material, the cost of electricity, global, with around -- sorry, EUR 2 per tonne -- roughly a little bit less, but anyway, EUR 2 per tonne versus a EUR 15 per tonne total cost of mining plant in G&A. So even if you reduce a little bit your -- due to the solar PPA, which is, let's say, you can get it from $2 to $1.8 is not so relevant in the overall cost. What's more relevant here is the all-in sustaining costs. How do we look long term? It's a very good question. People asked about what happens with your continuing investment in tailings. You can see there that every year, we have like $0.10 coming from tailings. This thing is expected to decrease in the future and future being around 3 years because we expect to permit a new deposit of tailings, which will require lower ongoing additions of waste every year. The reason of that is that we have more reserves and resources coming from Valverde, San Dionisio, San Antonio. And also, we believe we are going to be expanding the mineable open pit reserves at Cerro Colorado with our recent drilling. So we will eventually require some additional space. So we are very well advanced already with the permit being -- with the project being discussed on to try to get a place permitted with much lower capital intensity in the year than the one that we have right now. That's where I see things going. In the future, we also see more of our concentrates going to Spain and Europe due to the -- that will probably take transport costs of around $0.10 in TCs due to the fact that there is a lack of concentrates in the world and specifically in Europe. And with new smelters coming on stream in Indonesia, that will also help because they will deviate some of these concentrates to that areas and the conditions in Europe should improve. So I think in the medium term, we will see those improvements. Other than that, I don't see a huge increase or decrease in all-in sustaining costs because we have low grade. When we get higher production from San Dionisio in our blend, and we have an average production of 60,000, 65,000 tonnes of copper, of course, we'll see a decrease, which is more or less automatic. Another question is, could you provide more insight into ore grades and recovery rates for '25? We have already passed the most challenging phases of quality. Yes, we have passed most of the challenging phases because we were basically blending the surface in this interim pit. We are, as I said before, already getting into better grades as we see in January, February and March. We have to be careful though to blend the material. We cannot just put high grade only for several reasons. One is that we don't have enough capacity in the filters. We cannot depress too much on the sulfide. So we will be blending a certain amount, and we'll try to optimize, obviously, that. And this is quite -- we expect an improvement in recoveries and grades in the next few months in the year. Very interesting project. Do you consider recent developments in the macro cellulose project in Galicia to be positive for you? For those of you that are not familiar, the regional government has approved the environment -- positive environment pack declaration in cellulose plant around 20 kilometers east from Touro in the same river shed, which has been, in theory, highly contested socially by some -- by the typical opposition and the sea people and also very supportive locally. So I think the fact that the regional government has approved this, requiring a good investment, an investment of around EUR 800 million, I think it's a very positive sign that the regional government has to -- is serious, imposing, of course, good conditions or strong conditions for operations, but it's serious to take difficult decisions because this project obviously implies a heavy -- higher utilization or plantation of eucalyptus trees. And there's another already a second cellulose plant in Galicia and forestry is an important industry. And in some cases, it's a little bit contested. I think this is very positive development because we believe that our project complies. There was also a project that was considered strategic. And our project, we believe it's a local project, also very well supported by local population and certainly with a much limited impact regionally. So I think it's quite positive, and we believe we are the second in the queue. Another one is, when do you expect San Dionisio and San Antonio to start production? What's estimated mine life of this and expected tonnes of copper from each? Well, a little bit difficult to say this. But San Antonio contains -- it's an underground deposit of around -- depends on the cutoff around 15 million tonnes per year -- sorry, 15 million tonne reserves. It's open towards the east. And this year, we are doing some infill. It's already been approved to do some infill drilling there. It will be mined underground through a ramp. The ramp will start from the existing Cerro Colorado pit. This thing is not planned until at least 3, 4 years from now, and the mining rate very likely will be around 1 million tonnes per year of polymetallic material. This is all polymetallic material. In the case of San Dionisio, we are already mining, as you know. And it's basically 2 zones. One, the upper part is copper only and the lower part is copper-only stock, then we have a copper only, but with some massive sulfides embedded. And the lower part is polymetallic and it's part open pit, part underground. The underground is also around 20 million tonnes of polymetallic grades of around 1.5% copper plus around 3% zinc and lead. Those will require the mining using underground methods. The rock is very good. And we expect the mine rate to be in the underground around 1.5 million tonnes per year mined with a contractor, and it will not happen also until we have the zinc circuit constructed. The zinc circuit constructed will have to be constructed in the next 3 years because right now, we only have copper, so we don't need to rush to construct the zinc. What are we doing now? We are basically optimizing the grinding rates, the recoveries in order to improve what's in our PEA, which is based on historic recoveries and in historic test work, it's around 58%, 60% copper recovery. So we want to see how we can improve that and also how we can improve the zinc recovery. Rare earth. Spain does have some rare earth deposits in a place called Matamulas in Ciudad Real, considered one of the most promising [indiscernible] sites, making Spain potentially largest in Europe after Finland and Sweden was blocked in '99 to environmental concerns. Has Atalaya explore opportunities in this region? Given your track record with permitting and previous environmental issues, do you think you would have an advantage? Probably would, but we have not contacted them at all, simply because we have so much in our plates. And to be honest, we don't have visibility or at least I don't have, to be humble, visibility on how we to treat rare earths. I remember somebody telling me that rare earths are basically gravel unless -- and should be paid as gravel unless you have a recovery system to remove the oxides, especially the high-value rare earth heavy neodymium, presidium oxides, which is what are used for the magnets. So I think this project in Ciudad Real, although it's very interesting. By the way, I don't think it's a problem of -- personally, I don't think it's a problem of environment. The place is not environmentally sensitive at all. It's a problem of local opposition and very vocal, but really no big deal. Unless we -- unless there is a processing plant somewhere in Europe in order to produce these oxides, which otherwise most of the downstream processing has to go to China, as far as I know, I think they control 80% of the downstream facilities, although there is some new things in the United States and Australia. The next question also related to rare earth. Sweden has one large rare earths located in Kiruna discovery announced in '23 by LKAB. Does Atalaya deal with mineral prospects bring us any closer to rare earths? I don't think so. I don't think -- we are in an area that's basically a BMS deposit with prospects of copper and zinc. This case of LAKB is an iron deposit of magnetite, which has -- it's an iron with high phosphor content. In one of the satellites around the Kiruna mine, they contain a lot of phosphates and these phosphates are what contain the rare earth. Actually, the monazite is a phosphate, if I remember well, although as I say, I'm not a specialist. By the way, we have to be a little bit careful with rare earth because the market is much -- I know it makes nice headings, but the market of rare earth is miniscule, it's very small compared to what's surrounding copper. Another question is Atalaya land use post-mining Azora launches Tillion platform with 300 megawatts data center in Zaragoza, EUR 2 billion in development of campus. Does Atalaya management recognized as clean energy, expandable water land infrastructure that we could -- that could be used for data center evolution? What active steps are taken to capitalize on this opportunity? This is a good question. And actually, we are looking at these things. We are looking at what can we do because we have basically solar. And we have the ability of more solar, and we are quite close to an area with good winds in the southwest of Spain, in Portugal border, where there's good winds but require the infrastructure to get cheap power into our position. I know that the local -- regional supplier is developing some electric lines to connect to that area of the wind because solar only runs during the day. What are we doing? Yes, we are looking at something not related to totally with data centers, but how can we use in the future our tailings -- old tailings pond. Is it possible to install batteries? Batteries are going -- battery prices are going down. And we have a team investigating that to see if there is opportunity to have abundant solar because we do have a lot of sun hours, and we can capitalize by having a good storage facility, and we can get some really cheap power. It could be used for data centers, but it could be used to any other thing. But we are studying the possibility of batteries, and we are watching the evolution. In the case of sustaining CapEx, total terms, what's the ballpark number that you're expecting in '25? Do you expect the change in '26 and '27? Well, we have given already the guidance. And as I said, it's not very different in '26, '27. We expect to have much less sustaining CapEx as soon as we get -- at the moment we start with a new tailings pond. And also, we will not have the pre-stripping of San Dionisio. Atalaya's land use post mining management. Is Atalaya looking at opportunity given data centers -- how data centers are funded? Will Atalaya consider creating a new legal entity for the sole purpose of development funding Digital Spain '25 in the data center space? Well, right now, as I said before, the only thing we are looking at is how we can get cheap power because if we don't have cheap power and good infrastructure, data centers are not -- it's only one part of the use. While we have a cheap electricity, I'm sure we could have good opportunities for our land. In the case of Touro, what are the next key milestones for the project after consultation process is completed? Right now, we are in the process of getting responses from the -- from what they call each of the bodies of the administration, so sectorial projects, sectorial bodies, water, air, land, forestry, culture and so on. And we have obtained already or we have received or know that we have been -- that have been processed around half of them, and that's the activity. In the meantime, in parallel, we as Atalaya or the teams of Touro are with the consultants answering each and all of the allegations that have been received. And those form a body that goes into the final impact declaration. So basically, it includes all the complaints or allegations positive or negative, the response -- summarized response from the company plus all the summary reports of all the allegation -- of all the bodies of the administration. So it's quite a long process, which basically takes a couple of months, at least 2 or 3 months. Any update of resolution on the relation with Trafigura? Is it a good relation? Do you -- they contribute anyway? Do they still have offtake agreements? Do you know if they want to remain long-term shareholder? Well, we don't know what they want in the long term. We -- if you look at history in the past, they have been in and out because that's how the nature of the business. They have been loyal shareholders since August 2014, so it's going to be 11 years. They came in at a very good price, buying a stake of a fund. So they are well in the money. They continue to be traders of our concentrate, but they only take around a little bit less than 20% of our concentrates in fair terms, in market terms, and they have been quite supportive. And actually, when we have a spot sale that's out of the specifications of the contract, we always tender it out to all the tenderers. It's sometimes a new one. And sometimes they have been awarded the tender, sometimes not. And I always say that the relation has been quite good, and they contribute a lot in this sense in the -- no conflict at all as far as -- and always very supportive. In relation to E-LIX, has the relation changed? Will you be negotiating a better deal with E-LIX considering the delays? Well, we'll see it at the right moment. It depends -- obviously, right now -- until now, we have been given loans and some of the cases are loans with certain conditions. And some of the loans also are -- have some warranties with equity. And if some additional funds are required, we will speak in the moment, depends on the conditions. Certainly, we have taken a lot of development risk, and I think we should be compensated in some way for taking this risk. When will E-LIX start to have an impact on driving down all-in sustaining costs? Is there a final time cost that you come online before shutting the project down? Look, the instructions have been very simple. We will not allow this to be a cash drain. So E-LIX will have to be self-sustaining from the operating cost point of view and have a future. So far, the numbers in theory show that is the case. But if that's not the case, certainly, we're not contributing -- we will not continue contributing to the operating cost. It doesn't mean the thing is not economic. It doesn't mean it cannot be economic for other third party. It doesn't mean we cannot change the -- and instead of using our own concentrate, we can use a third-party concentrate is very difficult. So the case of E-LIX is still very valid. But certainly, we have a very clear instruction that after this year, we don't want this to be a cash drain for the company. Did you get a response from FTSE Russell as how went wrong with the entry to 250? The decrease in share price does not explain no entry. There are other group that entered. Yes, we did write to them and they gave us an explanation where it was not very clear in relation that it was not only the market cap, what they looked. It didn't convince us too much, but I don't think it was the right -- we don't -- we didn't believe that it was the right thing to start fighting with this because eventually, we believe we are going to be getting in, in the next review in 3 months. And in any case, the all indexes also -- requires a lot of liquidity. So there's not such a huge difference between being in the 250 and the 350 or all. But certainly, yes, we did get into them and the reply was not totally satisfying, but we leave it there. We believe we are going to be getting there. Gold hit new highs. Does Atalaya have any gold prospects in the portfolio. Ossa Morena is Alconchel copper-gold project. You are 100% right. Alconchel is copper-gold, IOCG, and we are waiting for some drilling permits and also at the same time getting this project into a mining concession because it already has a small resource that can be mined. In addition to that, we have a place called Guijarro area, which contains between 200,000 and 0.5 million ounces of gold likely open pitable, and that's one of the areas where we are exploring. And we'll be looking at either development and permitting ourselves or farming in that into a junior that can get in exchange of shares where we can get more added value sooner because it is not something major in our portfolio. BHP, Anglo, Rio Glencore, just in talks, what do you think of these potential deals? Did any majors approach Atalaya? No, we have not had any majors approaching Atalaya. And I don't think they will. We are a small company. We have to be modest. We are -- but sometimes good is beautiful. I don't expect the shares of Glencore to be able to multiply by 100% in 1 year, which I think this thing can happen in shares of Atalaya. So I think this is -- we are -- we have not been approached by big companies. But of course, we have been receiving interest and especially some of our large shareholders have been receiving interest from different parties in our company because we are very good -- we offer very good value. Somebody is asking about the potential increased capacity of the solar plant. Well, it depends if we can store. If we can store electricity, we can really expand the solar plant to 200 to 150. What we are not able is to be able to sell into the grid in an economic terms. So we can probably be able to produce 100 megawatts and store the 50 and then use this 50 if it's economic based on the battery. So it's a matter of -- batteries are now starting to be potentially interesting. In the case of -- we have lots of land and space. So there's not a problem of land. It simply it has to make sense. In the case of San Dionisio, when do you expect to receive the final permit. Could it delay the impact of the mine maturing in '25? No, it will not affect the mine plan because we have already a stockpile of material that we are using. And we have already received what we call [indiscernible], which is like a preliminary version of the permit that they submit so you can correct the facts. So we know this thing is imminent. It could be weeks or 1 month, but it's not going to affect us at all. What was the start and end date in relation to the strategic declaration? It was the 24th of June when it was declared strategic. So basically, it's 1 year from that, so the end of June. But of course, the administration could request additional time if there's some -- it depends on what the reports that they are missing. If there's a nonsubstantial report, then they will issue the permit and declaration anyway. But if there is something missing like the water department or something that's really very important, they can request some additional time to issue that thing. They have not done that in the case of the paper mill or the cellulose mill. They were able to do it. But in our case, it's 25,000 pages. It's quite complex. Of course, not everything is water, but that's something that's -- yes, I think we will get it before that. Why mining waste increased from 32 million tonnes to 24 million tonnes to guide of 37 million tonnes to 42 million tonnes? Does it include the waste outside Cerro Colorado? Basically, no, this is basically the capitalized stripping. We want to open the pit a little bit more to be able to access several fronts and make sure that we have several fronts to be able to blend. The strip rate of the pit itself doesn't change. Actually, we are working -- we are going to be working this year to update the reserves, and we already have some preliminary numbers. The overall strip rate of around 2:1 is not going to change at all. When do you expect Masa Valverde to commence initial production? I would say around 2 years from the start of the ramp, which is likely going to be mid this year, maybe a little bit faster. Can you please provide an update when do you expect Touro to start production of copper concentrate and how you expect to feed in the P&L account? Look, if we get the permits by midyear, we will be in position to start putting the first production in 1.5 years from that. So basically, it will be the end of '26, start of '27. And depends if it's delayed 1, 2 months or whatever, it will be sometime in '27, for sure. And the start-up of Touro, we don't expect any big issues, very similar to what we have here. Has the company received any revenues from E-LIX production? Yes, we have sold a couple of things, but not really relevant to provide any update on that. We have lots of stockpiles of zinc precipitate stored, but nothing relevant. What's the contribution in '26, '27 and '28 for E-LIX. Some numbers could be appreciated? Well, it's very, very difficult to say at this stage until we get it up and running. What are the prospects for dividend growth? What do you think will be in 12 months? Well, we -- it depends on the production. If copper prices goes as I believe, it's going to be very good. Well, I think we will be providing 30% to 50% of the free cash flow, as we said in the past. So the moment we get a little bit more of cash flow, we will be doubling, tripling whatever the dividend. It really just depends a lot in the copper price. And that's all. Thank you. There's another one here. No. This is the old one. It's data center, an old one.

Perfect. That's great, Alberto. Thank you very much indeed for addressing all those questions from investors today. And of course, the company can view all questions submitted today, and we'll publish those responses on the Investor Meet Company platform. But before we direct investors to provide you with their feedback, which I know is particularly important to the company, Alberto, if I may just ask you for a few closing comments.

Well, as usual, very -- many thanks for your support. I like to see names in the questions of long-term supporters. They know our effort. They know that we are doing the best for the company and for the shareholders. And I really like the patience and their continuous support. I think we are in a great company, and we will be updating -- this is going to be a very good year. So thanks very much for being there and look forward to continue chatting.

Alberto, César, thank you once again for updating investors today. Could I please ask investors not to close this session as you will now be automatically redirected to provide your feedback in order that the Board can better understand your views and expectations? This will only take a few moments to complete, and I'm sure will be greatly valued by the company. On behalf of the management team of Atalaya Mining plc, we'd like to thank you for attending today's presentation, and good afternoon to you all.