Atalaya Mining Copper, S.A. (ATYM) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, and welcome to the Atalaya Mining Investor Presentation. [Operator Instructions] The company may not be in a position to answer every question received during the meeting itself. However, the company can review all questions submitted today and publish responses where it is appropriate to do so. Before we begin, I would like to submit the following poll. And I would now like to hand you over to CEO, Alberto Lavandeira. Good morning to you.

Thank you very much. Good morning. We are here to review the presentation that's in the screen and it will be available in the web page of Investor Meet and our web page also, to review the results of -- the financial results of the first quarter of '25. I will be -- with me -- accompanied with Cesar Sanchez in the background, although he may not be available to answer some questions, but he will pass it to me. Going directly into the presentation that you will see in your screens. There is some -- there's a good summary of the review of everything that has happened in the first quarter of '25 and actually a little bit more in the year. I think the important thing here is that we are very happy, we are very pleased to report a strong start of '25. I would say that, that was kind of expected because production had already been flagged. And since we -- as we used to say, we had in our last presentation that our cost per tonne per unit are quite constant due to the fact that we had good copper prices and good cost control, the financial performance has been excellent. I will talk a little bit more about this operating and financial results in a moment. From a corporate point of view, I think it's worth mentioning that we have been doing some changes in the Board. We have strengthened the Board due to the fact that some of our Board members have already been or are going to be around 10 years on the Board. This means that they no longer are deemed to be independent. So we have added Coriseo Gonzalez, a lady that's very well known in the Spain, as a Non-Independent Executive Director. Another important point that happened, I think I should highlight is that finally, we were included in the FTSE 250 Index earlier in May. We didn't make it in the first cut, but we were there in May, and we believe we are going to be maintaining that in the future checks. There are lots of things presented in this Page 6. But one thing that's kind of unique in our company, and I think that speaks a lot of how we handle things in the communities, which is very important is that we have launched what's called Riotinto Experience, which is an experience that allows visitors, tourists to visit the mine, active mine with a bus, going through the mine and going through our installations live while the mine is running. This has been considered a kind of unique situation in Europe, certainly. And it shows how good relation we have with the communities, everything transparent. This is extremely important because we want to show that mining is modern industry, which will help for the future of our company and for the mining industry in general. With that, with those general introductions, I will go directly to the operating and financial results. You will see them in Slide 7. Well, we had a fantastic first quarter. Actually, it's the best result since we had a good quarter in -- I think, it was in -- back in '21. And of course, the reason for that was we had better grades. We had better grades of 0.42%. And the plant was running continuously. So the plant actually was running at around 16 million tonnes per year rate like you can see in the upper graph. And although we didn't have a -- we had slightly lower recoveries than has historically been in the last few years, it's still a record production. And one of the reasons why this plant was running so well is that we have no -- almost no downtime in -- during the first quarter. And it looks to be according to how things are going is like in the second quarter, we're also going to have a quite good quarter from the tonnage point of view because since we implemented a few changes in the mill, the SAG mill, which requires to change -- as you know, the SAG mill requires to change the liners as a preventive maintenance of around 6 -- 1 week more or less downtime. And normally, we have like two, even three of those stops during the year. With some changes that we have implemented, it looks like we would even be able to bypass second quarter and move this stop to quarter 3 or the first part of Q3, we are there, which is extremely important because it also means that it looks like we are going to be having a good second quarter also. The recoveries, you can see slightly lower. And -- but we should be seeing this as not as a continuous basis. We should be seeing simply we are feeding some of the high-grade ores of San Dionisio in a small amount, but they come in with oxidized ore, they're very close to old mining areas, and this lowers the recovery. But overall, it's more than compensated by the high grades because then what pays for the -- what creates the profits is the copper recovered. And copper recovered with higher grades is better even if we have a slightly lower recovery in the mill. As a result of that, what happens is, of course, we have very good revenues and actually, the higher revenues in the historical quarter per quarter. Higher sales because we have good production and also good prices, good prices of copper. As a result of that and as a result of our control of costs, we had very high EBITDA, actually probably a record or close to record EBITDA. And lots of that profits came directly to the bottom line on profits and cash flow. Still, at the end of the quarter, we had some inventories of concentrate were quite high, which means that we had like EUR 16 million in inventory. And this will normalize by the end of the year -- of the quarter. So it means also in the second quarter, we should expect to have lower stockpiles and also have a good performance on cash flow during the second quarter. On a unit basis, I mean, what's that, cost per pound, it's -- sorry, not cost per pound -- in a unit basis, cost -- total costs, the cost performance was quite good, although the total figure was slightly higher, but this is simply treating more tonnes. That means more costs and more mining -- mining more tonnes. Even with this increase of trade receivables that I just mentioned before of having concentrates in stockpile, we had a good positive free cash flow generated in the quarter of EUR 26 million operating cash flow and global cash flow, even in spite of the investments that we carried during the year -- during this quarter. The investments are basically higher stripping at Cerro Colorado is getting normal, investing in the tailings facility and as well as E-LIX. But still, after all this, the balance sheet remains strong with an increase in working capital, almost EUR 70 million or $80 million at the end of the quarter. Going into the detailed breakdown of the costs, we'll see those in Slide 8. It was a very good quarter, but why was that? You can see that the main reason has been the offsite cost. The offsite costs have been maintained at a good level, obviously reducing, but reducing simply because we produce more tonnes of copper, more pounds payable. Our cost per unit in -- of rock moved stayed around EUR 2 per tonne with a bias towards going slightly lower due to the diesel prices going down. So expect to be positive in the future. At the plant, we had a -- we are always between EUR 7 and EUR 8 per tonne, quite constant. We're expecting to have also a second quarter slightly better due to good electricity prices during the second quarter and also during -- the fact that our solar plant is already producing electricity and helping to reduce this consumption. And of course, all of that with higher production of metal. But of course, the big change comes from the offsite costs. What the treatment charges, so what is -- what the smelters charge us to process, our material and also the by-product credits. Starting by this, we have benefited from producing more silver because remember that these previous years, we have been mixing high silver areas with a low copper in order to benefit from that high silver areas while we were having lower copper, and this will continue during this year. So this, together by the fact that the silver prices are good -- much higher than previous years, it means that our by-product credits are substantially higher than previous years. But you will also notice a big decrease of around $0.20 per pound in freight, treatment charges and other offsite costs. This is due to the fact that the last year, we were selling our concentrates based on benchmarks, which were around $80 per tonne of concentrate treated. So that's what we had to pay to the smelters. This year, starting in January, the benchmark has gone into the low 20s, which means there's a difference there of $60 per tonne. And in addition to that, we have some spot sales sold during the first quarter that were sold separately from the benchmark contracts at even negative treatment charges. So all things together have reduced a lot the treatment charges. And also, we sold some of this material to local European smelters, which also lowered the freight. This tendency slightly going to continue because we believe that the treatment charges in the world are going to be maintained low due to the fact that there's lack of concentrates in the world. Looking at all-in cost, we always report all-in cost, remember that the -- our mining cost includes the capital cost of replacing the fleet. So that's already included in the cash cost. So we only had one thing that highlights is the capitalized stripping costs, which mainly correspond to some -- to Cerro Colorado, our existing pit. And why is that? Remember that previous years, we were a little bit tight in mining areas. We had some issues of accessing ore, at the moment we had rain. So we decided this year to try to move more ahead so that we can open more the pit and avoid these problems in the future. It does not mean that the strip ratio has changed a lot. It's a matter of allocating working capital because the strip ratio of the global pit for the next 10 years is still under 2:1 strip ratio. But when we mine at a higher rate than that and we can right now due to our balance sheet, we capitalize those costs. And these are what's shown there in the -- in Slide 9. And all in, at the end, it looks like we will be in the much lower than we had anticipated. All this, we like to -- all this is summarized in Slide 10, where we like to show our all-in sustaining cost benchmark versus others. It shows that this quarter has been the lower in probably the last 4 years and also substantially lower than other companies due to these benefits that also others are benefiting, of course, the treatment charges and so on. But in our case, it has been more patented due to the high grades produced. So with all this, how are things going for the future? Well, it would be a temptation to say, look, we are going to increase our guidance and to use more because we started well, and things are going well in the second quarter. But we have decided to maintain the guidance between 48,000 and 52,000 so roughly around 50,000 tonnes of copper, simply to be conservative and to make sure that we fulfill our targets. So far, it looks like the guidance and cash costs and all-in costs, although it's unchanged, so far, it looks like we will be in the low end. So I would accept that very likely, our costs are going to be 5 -- already 5 months have basically gone of the year, so far are going to be in the low end of our guidance. So what's going to happen in the year? Well, finally, we got the permits of -- environmental permits on Touro, which you can see in the slide. We never had doubts, as we said before about getting this permit because we have obtained others, but simply it's quite bureaucratic in Spain. This will be an important focus in '25, which will allow us to start moving the hill that you see in the pit and also will allow us to access fresh ore, which is better material with lower -- than the one we are treating now with high recoveries -- with lower recoveries. Look, the reason why we had these lower recoveries can be clearly seen in this picture in the center of -- more or less in the center of the picture. Where we are mining is this interim pit that we have a permit for and that is kind of oxidized. You can see it by the color, which means slightly lower recovery. But the left side of the picture, which is basically the mountain that is totally fresh material. In the past, recoveries were much better, over 80s, which means we are very confident of that in the future. I think one thing I should highlight here about San Dionisio is that the fact that we received the permits and endorsement of how the constructed business environment that we have in the Galicia. I would say, is the best in Spain, in the Southwest. It's also clear that we got the environmental authorization for the Valverde deposit. Also our neighbors, MATSA Sandfire had got an authorization for tailings also Grupo Mexico also got environmental authorization for Los Frailes. So it can be slow. Yes, it's slow. It's very bureaucratic, but a certain -- and this is very important for the mining business because as you can -- as you know, one of the issues right now in some of the countries is the uncertainty in permits and political stability, let's say. Another important thing that people thought is, look, you will never be able to obtain the permit to move the road. The road that -- if I go back to the previous slide is basically dividing both pits. Actually, this road, we have already shown this in the past, is well advanced. It's been moved. We have -- everything is in place, and it's not affecting at all the development of San Dionisio and things are happening. And this is a public road with lots of traffic. An important thing also is E-LIX. E-LIX, we have been speaking about this for years now. Finally, this plant is working on a continuous basis. It's -- they're making progress. They have been treating zinc concentrates, still not at full capacity, but the ramp-up plan is to get there in summer. Right now, they are extracting zinc from copper concentrates because to treat copper concentrate itself, it's not economic based on the very low treatment charges I have just mentioned before. I think the important thing to say here is that they have gone through the problems of hiring new people, new management, doing some changes in the plant because remember, this process is absolutely new worldwide and potentially has a lot of future. Another important point that we will see in this year, looking ahead, is the Masa Valverde, PMV means Masa Valverde. Very likely, we will approve a ramp as shown there, to get into the green part of the deposit. This green part of the deposit is an area with higher copper areas that we have been drilling. Right now, we have 4 rigs there. They are infilling with wedges, and they are specifically targeting this zone that's located north or immediately north to the massive deposit, which, in the past, we had flagged some results of around 2% copper with very good widths. We will be updating the market soon. Soon meaning certainly before the center part of the month about these results that we are getting so that people can see the -- investors can see the potential of this zone. The idea with this plant is -- this ramp is basically to get an access to this copper zone, where we can mine this directly. This coarse material -- coarse grain material and put it inside the existing plant and add some additional production for Riotinto. This additional production is not included in the plants of Riotinto itself. And it can be -- assuming we get, let's say, 0.5 million tonnes in at 2% recoveries is very close to 10,000 tonnes of copper additional to what we have. And obviously, the important things for Touro -- the project -- important things for the company is the Touro project. Touro project is, as you all know, it's in the north of Spain and lots of things have happened. It's slow, extremely slow. But after information period completed in January, the company has been responding to all the requests, all the -- from the administration, of the allegations. The administration itself, all the bodies from the administration have been producing what they call sector reports, let's say, water, roads, urbanistic, forest, blah, blah, blah and all this. And basically, we have a full majority of them already received and positive. So we are quite positive that we will be receiving the terms, the environmental permits sooner. In principle, this project has been declared strategic in late June. So in principle, should be around 1 year from that. That's their targets. But we are conscious that the administration, if it's delayed, it is delayed and it could be a little bit later than that. Certainly, we are hoping to get those before the summer holiday period which in the Spain is August. With the dependent of this permit, why are we excited? I mean, why do we like? We like it because it's a high-quality, higher grade than Riotinto. You can see it in the Slide 13. Better recoveries, lower unit costs because it is very clean concentrate. It would be a premium concentrate which will -- the offtakers will love softer material, closer to surface so less -- lower mining costs. So all in, the costs are going to be lower. But it's very important to mention that this is a -- this will be producing concentrates that are very valuable because they're very clean. So one of the ways we are looking at funding this project is a combination of bank loans from Spanish institutions that have already given us terms, and we are ready to sign, but also gives us the possibility to combine this local loans with financing through offtake rights. This offtake rights can come from directly the concentrates that will be available from Riotinto because most of the contracts that we have right now are expiring between this year and next year, which means we are free to negotiate with those offtake contracts with the smelters or traders, for the Riotinto concentrates in addition to the concentrate of Touro. This is a fantastic opportunity where we can take advantage due to the very low treatment charges that are available in the market. And a high -- very high deficit of concentrates in the world, which is likely to continue for the next 5 years at least. So in conclusion and before we get in to questions at the end, where are we going to center our work? It's going to be an exciting year for Riotinto. We are able to -- we are going to be able to get into a good production. We're going to get a new project going, which is called Masa Valverde, very likely get all the permits for Touro, will know how E-LIX can add value locally. And we will also start drilling at San Antonio which is a satellite deposit, just 1 kilometer west of -- east of Cerro Colorado as well as continue doing some exploration in the Sweden, a joint venture, which we had -- where we have already completed the winter program for '24, '25, and we look forward to do the same thing in the next year. So we are willing to start drilling as soon as we get cold ground, frozen ground likely in October, November this year. So in the future, at the end, our company -- what's the future of our company? Our company's to continue with our plans to go from the 50,000 tonnes of copper level to add another 5,000 to 10,000 just simply adding material from the stockwork of San Dionisio and get the next leg of growth from adding copper from Masa Valverde, copper only without the zinc. And Touro can provide another 30,000 tonnes of copper. So we are talking about just with these 3 items we can basically double the production of copper only. But over that, we also have what we call the polymetallic, which contains copper and zinc, which we could bring in another 50,000 to 60,000 tonnes of zinc, which is equivalent to another around 30,000 tonnes of copper, additional from the polymetallic. And we are doing all the engineering work to get this down and make the decisions this year. So with that, I will get into the -- to try to reply to all the questions that we have been receiving. And yes, and then we'll go.

Perfect. Alberto, thank you very much indeed for your presentation. [Operator Instructions] While the company take a few moments to review those questions submitted today, I would like to remind you that a recording of this presentation along with the copy of the slides and the published Q&A can be accessed at our Investor dashboard. Alberto, as you can see, we have received a number of questions throughout today's presentation. If I may now hand back to you and kindly ask you to read out the questions where appropriate to do so, and I'll pick up from you at the end.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much. Look, I'm going to try to -- we have quite a few questions. Let me see if we have time now. I think we have. So I will try to reply all as usual. What are your views in long-term TCs/RCs? I think, it's excellent. There's a huge deficit of concentrates in the world. This deficit comes from two parts. One is excess or a huge number of smelters that are hungry and working only at 70% capacity plus the addition of new smelters in Indonesia two, one in India, one in Congo and even there are talks about others. Once you stop a smelter, it's very difficult to open it again. So people will try to maintain in a certain level. Can the smelters survive with negative or very low treatment charges? So far, they are doing it because there is a huge demand of sulfuric acid, and this comes from smelters. The sulfuric acid is being used for production of nickel in the treatment of laterites, plus other competing demand from fertilizers and so on. So I think the prospects of the demand from smelters are very high. On the other hand, there's no new big projects supply new concentrates in the world. So yes, there can be some extra production with higher copper prices, will be some better production. But the treatment charges are going to be -- remain low for quite a period according to all the sources. Another question is, in the light of your success, shareholders might be pressing for a dividend. But given the withholding tax, would most not be better served by continued investment, reducing debt or share buybacks? No, it's true, but we are in a net cash position, so we don't have debt. We have some rolling debt, but very low cost simply for working capital management, and we always need some lines of credit to work. So -- and share buybacks is a possibility. But for sure, from our -- we don't like to be changing horses in the middle of the race. So far, we believe we are going to continue with our dividend. Even knowing that we will have to need some capital for the investments of Touro. The reason of doing that is simply discipline showing that we -- there are some investors that our -- people or funds or institutions or investors that want a minimum dividend. But on the other hand, they can get some growth, which is not so common in dividend stocks. So I think so far, we will continue with the plan of dividends. Another question is, would you expect there ever to be a premium price paid for sustainability producing copper mines using renewable energy? And if so, when do you think that may happen? To be honest, I'm quite skeptic of this. I am quite skeptic because at the end is the user that has to pay the premium. And once the copper is molten and produced in cables, it's mixed from one source to -- from other source. Some will come from South America, in places where they are generated or for Africa, where they're generating their electricity with heavy fuel, and it's very difficult to achieve that. I think several companies have tried to get a trademark of copper, green copper or whatever or green alumina or whatever, but at the end, the problem with this is that whoever buys the car or whoever buys the cable does not want to pay for it. So it's -- I'm quite skeptic that this will -- we will get a premium with this. Another question is regarding the next phase, given Atalaya has invested more money into it, what percent of probability you have given this project achieving the set goal? When do you negotiate better terms for Atalaya to reflect time, money and risk? Is there a horizon where it gets scrapped and you move on? If the project is scrapped, what intellectual property will Atalaya still have? Look, probabilities, I really don't know. This thing, we know that E-LIX works. The question here is to make sure, does it work with -- to be economic at this size, does it require an upsizing. Right now, from a variable cost point of view, it's economic. The problem is when the plant is treating not too many tonnes, the fixed cost people basically are eating the economics. Simply doubling the capacity with installing more tanks, same people will make it economic, at least cash breakeven. We think that this goal will be known this year. Chances of this happening, I really can't say. Part of all this depends also on the cost of the big inputs. The cost of inputs are some reagents and electricity. If electricity is lower, which in the future, it looks like it's going to be, especially in the Spain, then it becomes more economic. Most of the cost is -- most of the variable cost is electricity. So this thing I think is important. And then another important point is can it be used for other materials? I mean, it may not be interesting to treat copper concentrates, but it could be interesting to treat a blend or a global concentrate, for example, that's -- something that's copper, lead, zinc mixed and the value, you don't get it from E-LIX itself, you get it from higher recovery. I think that's what's going to happen. Is there an horizon where we get scrapped and you move on? I mean, I think the idea will be to try to benefit from installation by finding the right feed for it. We still have -- about rights we still own, we have ownership of exclusivity under certain conditions. And also the last loans that we provided have attached to them equity component that if we are not repaid, we will keep that. So yes, we will have a percent of that intellectual property, which will be a certain value. When do you negotiate better terms and things like that? I suppose this year. As soon as we get the final terms, will be time to be talking about what's the future of this venture. Right now, the way we have it is that we have a profit-sharing agreement. Basically, we benefit from most of the high -- the added value to repay our investment. Of course, if there's no added value, we are not getting anything. But I think at the end we will find a way to get some added value back. And certainly, it will be decided this year either one way or the other. You haven't changed the full year forecast. Conservative? Well, yes, maybe yes. Maybe yes, but last year was the only year that we didn't fulfill our targets, and we want to make sure this doesn't happen again. Are you considering increasing the number of solar panels at Riotinto? No, we are not, at this moment simply because we cannot export electricity and the installed capacity is the maximum we can consume. Having said that, we are looking at installing batteries so we could use -- either we could install more solar or buy cheap solar power in the central hours of the day where in Spain it's very low, charge those batteries and discharge that energy in the peak hours that happen every day before the sun goes up and after the sunset. So this is something that we are looking right now as we speak. Did the major power blackout of 28th of April affect operations? What lessons were learned and have there been changes to improve operational resilience? It affected us, I would say, around 10 hours of loss of production because we were going to have some maintenance anyway, and we advanced that maintenance partly to that stoppage. So that's the maximum. As a company, what have we learnt, it's difficult to say. I think the Spain as a country has learnt a little bit. This is something that means that Spain has a lot of sustainable solar and wind, but also has a background of around 20% nuclear plus water, hydraulic and gas, and it's important to keep a balance. If too much solar and wind go at the same time in the moment of lack of demand, you have to have good interconnections to make sure that you -- that excess production can go elsewhere, like it was going the day of this -- of the blackout. It was going to France, Morocco and Portugal, but even better connections and also to keep a minimum source of electricity from synchronous power that -- so that these things don't happen again. It's not the first time it happens in the world. These small blackouts have happened in other parts in Australia, United States at least and often for -- due to the same reason. So I think the lesson is that, careful. We all like solar and wind, but everything with a balance, not much more than we can do here because we get the electricity from the grid. About ESG, Sustainalytics ESG Risk Rating is 39, which is classified as high, while Atalaya ranks 86 out of 219 companies, it's a good performance relative to peers. Other companies like Antofagasta, 24, medium; Central Asia, 28, have low risk ratings. Can we expect Atalaya improve the ESG rating? Yes, we have been working to reduce all parameters, and I'm extremely surprised to see like Antofagasta having similar rates, open pit and similar processing, how can be lower. I can adjust from Central Asia. But we expect to get better ratings there. During your presentation, you mentioned that smelters were charging Atalaya. Just to clarify, Atalaya owns its smelters or are they being operated by a third party? No. No, smelters that are external smelters. Any external smelter, the way they get paid for doing their job is they charge the suppliers of concentrate, in this case Atalaya by what they call treatment charges or refining charges. So they charge x dollars per tonne of concentrate and x pounds -- x dollars per pound or cents per pound to refine the copper. That's the way they get paid for their operating costs. So that has always been the case. When the market is changing, because smelters need to be maintained alive and on, there has been some case where smelters have been buying concentrates in order to continue to operate and pay for those concentrates. Instead of charge for those concentrates, they pay for them. It means do not charge the company, but they pay the company to get the hands on top of their concentrates. Why do you do that? For several reasons. One, to have a good blend for the global, they cannot do that for 100%, but they can go into the market, buy some concentrates, get some revenues because they get the revenues from the assets that they produce or for the metal that they sell as refined metal or from the small impurities that they extract and they sell in addition to pay for their costs because what they have to do otherwise is to shut down or to reduce capacity, which is quite difficult in some smelters because simply, they cannot run -- you cannot run them at 50% because basically, it will freeze. It will not be able to smelt to melt the concentrates. Another question is, given world prevailing prices, any update on silver and gold production? Any focus on this as a viable business? Well, yes, we are looking at two things. We're looking at the possibility of extracting some gold and silver from tailings, is not that simple, but we are looking at that. And it's not that simple because you need first to find the space to put these new tailings plus the permits. But right now at these prices, it looks like it could be economic. And also, we are looking at some exploration areas that we have in Ossa Morena, where we have a small deposit, which is open pittable and gold and to see if we can get some value from that. Will you be hedging any metals or currencies this year? Well, we have not decided yet. It depends on the conditions. We are looking at the possibility of hedging metals always, especially medium term. And currencies, the same thing. Currencies, it could be due to the exchange rate of the euro-dollar that has worsened for us in the last couple of months due to the instability of the dollar. It's not easy to hedge currencies in the long term. Medium term could be done, but it's easier to do it with metals than with currencies. Another question is on medium-term basis, what should be the stripping cost capitalized on a dollar per pound basis for Cerro Colorado? Medium-term, meaning second quarter. I think second quarter should be similar to this year, to the first part. So around $0.25 per pound because we'll continue with that trend. At the end, whatever you struck now, you will not have it in the future. When will Masa Valverde start production? If we start to ramp this summer, it will still need 2 years to get into the ore. So that's something that we are talking about '27. Given your strong balance sheet is at risk of leverage buyout, do you plan to stay independent and would it be better to be in that position? Well, I think the market has seen constantly some transactions where the debt is absorbed by the buyer or by the merged situation, and the enterprise value is higher than the market cap. In our case, the enterprise value is lower. But I don't think that makes a big difference for somebody trying to take us over or not. In our case, the good defense that we have is that we have two or three shareholders together that make around 40%, 50% of the company. And that they would not accept any low-ball offer, and they can control anything happening. So we will be -- stay independent until these big shareholders decide that if somebody wants us not to be independent, it's a fair price for everybody. And this has been the case, but even now even more so. Have you considered dual listing in U.K., Spain? Yes, we have. And it looks like it has -- there's the possibility of listing in Spain, but we also would probably lose the index in the FTSE 250. So it's a balance there. Something that we don't -- if we are listed in Spain, it looks like we cannot be part of the index. We can still be in the main market, but not part of the index. Next question is, when is expected to start blending higher amount from San Dionisio with better recovery rates? I think this year we'll continue as we are. But next year, we'll start accessing the fresh ore. So I think from '26 onwards, it will already be fresh ore with better recoveries. Another question is, how much is the CapEx to move the road so that San Dionisio is working full time and how much will be paid by Atalaya? The CapEx total of the road is around EUR 10 million, it is all paid by Atalaya. And there's no rush. We are doing -- we don't need to move the road until probably next year. It's not affecting at all the movement. But we pay for it. What is the outlook of Spain in diesel prices? Well, it's difficult. It's basically Spain in general. We use industrial grade, has been going down with the diesel prices, but it depends a lot in the oil prices and the refining price. So far, it's going down. I suppose probably because the demand is lower, which is good for us. Around -- I would say, around 25% of the operating cost and the mining cost is diesel, 25% to 30%, which means it has an influence. How much of San Dionisio this year and at what copper grades? I don't have it here in my hand, but I will try to send it to you. I think it's going to be roughly around 10%, around 1.5 million tonnes to 2 million tonnes and average rate is probably around 0.6 so in that order, maybe a little bit higher. Just rough numbers back from the memory, but I need to check. Another thing is delighted you are considering installing batteries. Are there government grants available to help pay for the batteries? Probably they are, but we are very skeptic about grants because they always come late and you have to apply for them and give it to -- you have to be awarded by the grants before you even start, which means you have to wait until you start like 1 year, and these things make sense if you move fast. But I'm not aware of any grants. Planning for any acquisitions locally and overseas? Anything pending? Well, we're always looking at things. We're always looking at things locally, and we are looking at things overseas that makes sense, always in metals or copper and always anything that makes sense and can add pipeline of growth. Another thing is it's nice to be the biggest rise in the stock of FTSE today. Well, I'm very happy for that. I'm happy that at last, the value is starting to be recognized and the patience of everybody is rewarded. So that's all the questions. Thank you very much for your continued support. I see very -- lots of names positive -- of shareholders that are well known, and I'm always very happy for your continued support. If -- for those of you that have our contacts, please send us any detailed question and happy to have individual sessions if you need to. And thank you very much. And now I pass it to the operator to close.

Perfect. Alberto, thank you once again for updating investors today. Could I please ask investors not to close this session as you will now be automatically redirected to provide your feedback in order that the Board can better understand your views and expectations. This will only take a few moments to complete and I'm sure will be greatly valued by the company. On behalf of the management team of Atalaya Mining, we would like to thank you for attending today's presentation, and good afternoon to you all.