Atkore Inc. (ATKR) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

All right. Welcome again to everybody joining us here live and on the webcast. We're very excited to have with us on the stage Atkore. With us, we have Bill Waltz, President and CEO; and David Johnson, CFO.

And we're actually just going to dive kind of right into the fireside. But I thought maybe what would be helpful is as kind of just the first question, if you just want to kind of provide a broad overview of kind of the company just for those that might not be as familiar.

Cool. Yes. Thank you, [ John ], and welcome, everybody. Atkore, we give or take, $4 billion revenue company that our kind of motto is power and protect the world, which, therefore, electrical infrastructure, all types of different conduits and cables and the strut products that go with it. And then on the safety and security side of the business, from solar rate torque to various type of mechanical products. So mostly U.S., 90-plus percent, but we do have operations over in Europe, Australia, New Zealand also.

Great. So maybe just with that now, can you kind of provide a little bit of a state of the union around what you're seeing in your different end markets, particularly as we think about construction?

Yes. It's actually, I think, and I project or we projected to go forward really strong. The short term, it's winter months. So, there's some seasonality to the business, but if you look out a couple of years, all the government stimulus from the inflation Reduction Act of the Infrastructure Act, a little along all the construction was there that we literally believe or I believe that the biggest constraint is just having labor. So even if somebody sits here and says, yes, but what about that 10%, 20% of your business that's non-res or excuse me, residential. Honestly, if there are layoffs there and people can move over to help electrical contractors with all the rest of the projects, we'll probably sell more. So, I'm pretty excited and bullish.

Great. And then maybe trying to slice it another way, can you kind of remind us how much of your business is driven by the new side versus kind of the renovation and retrofit side of the...

Yes. So, I'll probably, if you don't mind, [ John ], take that and break it into all the segments, and I'm going from memory here, but there's probably 20% of our business that is residential, but you got to realize about half of that, and we have charts on the last earnings deck. Half of that is multifamily home still going up. Half of that is single residential homes. From there, the other, call it, 80%, roughly, 20% of that is repair or maintenance which is going strong. You think of all the different places where let's remodel a store to be this or an office to be that. And then the rest is just non-res, pretty much spread across. One nice thing with Atkore is literally -- and we have charts in our deck that kind of slow in that Atkore is all around you. There is no ability. And if it has electricity, it doesn't have our products to somebody else. So, it's not a question of, well, is this a commercial building? Is this a warehouse? Is this a hospital? Is this a data center. If there's lights or power, you have our products, which says the #1 person in almost every product and brand, if not, obviously, by potential of a competitor's product. So, we're there in every state, every country of the world from our type of products.

Yes. And so, you touched on a lot of different end markets there, and we definitely want to drill into some of those more. But I'm just curious, can you remind us where you're selling into that building cycle? Is it early in the building? Is it late?

Yes. It's a great question, [ John ]. So, the way I'll answer it 2 different ways, every phase we're in. So, I can even go back to COVID and there was times like, well, when is there a pocket on it, it's like us, we are across every phase. And for example, if you're running electrical lines into a new building or a new sub development or anything else, one of the very first products is going to be our products with like PVC conduit that's going to be run underground, probably at or before you even digging the hole in the ability. So, from that to the very finishings, if it is a 30 storability, is you're putting the last set of electrical plugs and then you're running the cable or the conduit. So, the full thing, we usually look at things like architectural billing index and say, hey, we're trying to design and the start of a building and where our products is like 9 months and then whatever the building lasts. And that's why it's a nice. I'm going to say, smooth product because you have products or construction sites, by definition, that may be done in 3 months, you also have airports and other things that are 3, 4 years after they kick off. So that's what also gives us confidence that even if things were to change, there is so much demand out there now. Well, first, all the stimulus is probably the next 7 years plus of work. Secondly, anything starting now like an airport or starting in 2 years, that's a 2- to 3-year project. So, while we don't have the backlog because we ship in a couple of days, our distributors and the end markets with electrical contractors are all from me and the rest of the team out looking really excited for what, quite frankly, in the next half decade, decade can provide.

So, [ John ], one thing I'd just add. So as an investor, it's kind of nice. You don't have to pick and choose what segment you think non-res construction is going to be up down or whatever because we do participate across the entire construction. And at the same time, you don't have to pick and choose where we are in the building cycle because, again, we participate through that whole building cycle. So, it does have a portfolio smoothing effect over time.

Great. So maybe just double-clicking on a couple of those thoughts. So, U.S. stimulus. I guess, one, have you seen it? Is it still to come? How will it kind of play out in your business?

Yes. I think 95%, 100% still to come. All the work -- and I'll just give you different examples of the infrastructure, whether that's even just stimulus at the state level with different bonds and so forth for new hospitals plus you and schools and everything else, that's still all to be played out. All the different things with electrification is just basically starting in, for example, or hardening of the grid. Now some of that, for example, in California with PG&E, we're putting lines under ground to stop first fires started a year or 2 ago, but that's the next 7 years. Different states with stimulus are just starting Louisiana, Florida to put electrical lines underground void of hurricanes and so forth. And then most of the work is all future or there's $65 billion set aside for example, in the Infrastructure Act to put fiber optic lines across the U.S. So at least without getting the politics to me, makes sense. But all that these fiber optic lines, but it also needs conduit to run through. So that's why, for example, we're really optimistic with the new product that we just went from 0 basically to #2 in the market with HDPE is to go, we're able to see where the markets are going and have quickly moved and come a commanding position in that. And then, for example, with Inflation Reduction Act, again, there are so many different stimuluses trying to keep track of each one. There's a huge incentive for solar. And that act for giving us incentives actually starts January 1. So, we're both a key supplier to that market and maybe it's dumlock, maybe it's skill. But 18 months ago, we started putting in an infrastructure that will come live about halfway through our fiscal year, like March, April to dramatically increase our capacity in that market, almost exactly as the stimulus kicks off. So, lots of money, lots of infrastructure, and I think we're well positioned to take advantage of that.

Great. And then can you remind us kind of your channel to market. So, you talked about distributors as a partner kind of inventory levels are very topical right now. Any color to share on that from an...

Yes, I think [indiscernible] it's a great thing. So yes, again, we sell -- especially our electrical side, our security and infrastructure, we're doing things like solar maybe directly to an OEM. But for the 75% of our business that's electrical, we sell to a distributor that sells an electrical contractor that sell the building owner, general contractor. Inventories overall, I would say, are normal at this time. So going cold they probably -- and we've clearly communicated just because I believe in transparency, there's no, like, oh, sorry, you, shareholders didn't understand. There was some stocking up just because people want to be safe. But now that lead times and I think, [ John ], maybe one of your other questions, we've been here at the same time, if not I'm going to answer you other way, is lead times for all of our products are back to normal, like a steel manufacturer and Nucor, whomever else is back to 4, 6-week delivery times, which is basically normal for them to [indiscernible] same with PVC, it's 2 weeks. It's just what time it takes to get a real truck across or real car to get across the country. So, lead times for them are normal, lead times for us are normal. Therefore, distributors are confident of their products. Therefore, they brought their inventory back to what I'd say is normal level. So, as we go we've in the earnings call, we had 2 weeks ago now or almost 2 weeks ago, we projected now that inventories are back in normal to have low mid-single-digit growth both for the quarter, but I also think going into the full fiscal year, so again, I think we're well positioned. Inventory levels back to normal.

Great. And then maybe we could spend a little bit of time talking about kind of the price -- pricing dynamic in the industry as well, kind of where are we now within the industry around pricing?

Yes. So, one of the things that I don't think investors fully understand is every investor, and maybe it's a question of come, we'll talk about what our material cost and how do you capture and so forth. And that's a factor, but that's literally if you kind of rate [indiscernible] factors, it's #3. The first one may be self-evident, but it's supply/demand, when there's more demand than there is supply, and Atkore does a really good job of shipping quickly. And you don't like it, I don't know anybody out here is a consumer saying, I want to buy a new window for my house or a generator, a Jet Ski, whatever else and you realize 3 months, 6 months, Atkore manages our backlog, our orders and our capabilities with our manufacturer that we still typically ship in a week or 2 [indiscernible] back to less than a week that if there is a supply-demand imbalance, we can get a pricing premium because of the confidence with our distributors to do -- to pass that through. And it's really essential. If you think about what I just said 10 minutes ago, the biggest constraint in the full market in construction right now is blue collar skilled craftsman. The last thing they need being the contractor is to have a union crew sitting around waiting 4 days because somebody decided to save 3% or try to save 3% on the price of a commodity, lower-level product. So therefore, our delivery get say, premium supply demand is the biggest factor. And you saw that, especially, for example, in the last fiscal year and the year before, where there was an imbalance, and there was more of a demand than what I or the competition could supply pricing and our profits went up well above $1 billion. After that, the second thing is still around convenience, and that's our ability. We get a pricing premium. I'll give you specifics here in a second to bundle products together. And again, as an investor, I'm going to say, once in a while, you may not get it because in your own personal life, you already get this. In other words, you go to Amazon and you buy everything you need and it all gets delivered and it's convenient. You don't go to 6 different grocery stores and buy one for dairy, one for produce, one for your meat. That's not how the electrical industry works today other than Atkore. Today, for example, with a distributor, they literally -- if you don't come to Atkore, will, and I can show you a bend diagram and separate this. If you wanted metal conduit, you have to go to one or 2 other people other than us. If you want PVC, it's basically a totally different company, a whole different industry chain with one person. If you want fiber glass, it's us or one other conduit, it's West or one other person. But it's different than those 2. And you keep walking through that. If you want cable, it's us or 2 other people, but it's different. HDPE, it's us or another company, totally different. Literally, there is no overlap. So would you as electrical running your own distributor, when I sit here and have your team place 7 purchase orders, receive 7 orders, one or 2 are not going to show up on time, 7 invoices versus with Atkore, it literally is an Amazon experience of one order, one delivery, one invoice. We actually measure the price premium even within Atkore that we get when we ship a truckload of one product, so the customer only wants a full truckload of X versus the combined orders, and we're getting 5%, 7% premium to be able to place everything together, even against our higher standard of pricing. So again, as you asked about pricing, first thing, supply and demand. Second thing is the value premium that Atkore gets at our distributors fully recognized. But again, do you really met 7 truckloads going into distributorship? You don't want to manage if you're a distributor of that inventory or you're in downtown Chicago, downtime Miami, you don't have the space for 7 truckloads of product to come in to your site. So, there's a lot of things that we do that are truly unique, sustainable competitive advantages on pricing that no one else has. From there, it does get into what or material cost. Overall, steel, I think, has plateaued the last week here, 2 of the major producers have put in small 4% price increases, we'll see if they hold versus just trying to stop the leakage, but steel costs have gone from these are rough numbers for hot rolled, but around $1,800 a ton to $600 a ton. So, it's dropped dramatically. And I'll walk through now how Atkore prices, and I'll go back to other commodity costs, our input costs. What I love with Atkore, if an investor wants to think, well, what's the commodity doing, price fluctuation is good for us. For example, steel, it takes 4 weeks to get delivered, we'll make the product and go from raw to finished product 2 to 3 weeks and then ship it out. So, by the time our COGS hits us, it may be a month, 2 months later, as soon as we see a price increase we're announcing literally that day or within 2 days to the market our costs are going up. So, we're going to capture price premium a lot quicker than what it hits our COGS. And that's sustained whether it's steel, PVC, copper, all those things. And then it's the same on the way down where there's a little bit more art of what hold pricing, don't give it up. So as that walked through, we can typically hold price 2 to 3 months and something that will hit us in a month, 2 months. So, any type of -- I don't want to say instability, but variability is also good to us. But again, I put it in the perspective, supply-demand, number one, Atkore premium for the one order, one delivery, one invoice. And by the way, national supplier, all the products, relationships as big as we are relative to our competitors with every major distributor out there. The associations where we're on the leadership councils of and so forth. So, all that value-add brands have been around for 100 years, top brand in the industry. And then it is that fluctuation we just talked about material costs, but they're all working in our favor, quite frankly. They have. I mean if you look back, forget the last 2 years, look at our price-to-cost capability of bridges for 5 years, and I think we've laid out even the earnings deck every quarter almost, we continue to get more price than cost.

Great. And then just thinking about your ability to do that. Can you talk about either the investments, the processes that have been put in place? And has that kind of changed over time?

Yes. I think it's a great question, [ John ]. I'll take it from 2 different perspectives. One thing, again, that I don't think we get as much value we'd love to have the price earnings of a Danaher Corporation. But we truly do use what we call the Atkore Business System. And I know probably as an investor, everyone is out there saying, "Yes, I heard that from every CEO and every management team." But I would truly say we're unique, especially against any company or using the front end of the business. Most of the time, even when a CEO or a management team talks about their business system, they're talking about how they're doing the shop floor, which I don't want to minimize that of gemba walks and safety, quality, delivery, cost, boards and all the rest that goes with that. But we actually use that from everything, for example, onboarding the organization, a new employee, the immersion programs, how we interview to how we do pricing. There is every week, for example, on Friday morning at 8:30 Central Time for 45 minutes. David, our CFO and myself, all of our executives walk through literally every product line, by region, by which competitors with charts, what are the trends, what's happening, what is that general manager thinking? And does it resonate with what the sales team is doing. So, we stay on top of all those different things. And then one of the nice fortunate capabilities, and that's just an example of leveraging the Atkore Business System. As to investing to add value, since David and I have been CEO and CFO for now over 4 years, we've hit or exceeded our earnings target A every quarter. But the other nice thing is we've never had to countermeasure. So, most companies are sweat in the quarter, how do you get that last shipment out. We've been in a fortunate thing that, yes, we want to deliver as much money to shareholders, but it's never been a question of, wow, how do we make this number versus where -- since we are hitting or at least hitting and exceeding our numbers, how do we continue to invest more. And that's another nice thing with Atkore that I know I've mentioned some investors mine, and I'll speak for Dave, in the executive staff, we are thinking today as the executive leaders about 2025. And I'm just randomly picking the year, whether it's 2024 or 2027. But in other words, my point is without overcommitting to 2023, that's why we have directors or maybe GMs. This year has already said. It's, for me, just like there's new products coming on board, I mentioned like investments in solar. David, in the earnings call mentioned 200 million of CapEx. We're thinking now for where's [indiscernible] in the pack, where is it going to be 3 years from now? We're making those investments. And those are everything from digital. Just even simple things that you as a consumer may have if you go to Starbucks, but where is the app the truck driver from our customer can punch in and say he's going to be there in 12 minutes and he gets a response pulling STAL 3, as soon as he pulls in STAL 3 his product is delivered on them, and he's back out shopping again or taking it to the next location. So, whether it's digital apps like that, whether it's the next major investment, for example, organically in HDP to continue to grow with the market that's supposed to double with fiber optics, we're continuously thinking out 3 years, and that's where our staff's focuses, which is a nice -- it makes a living and driving a business a lot easier that we're not -- we're a public corporation, but we're not sweat in the quarter. It's all about the future.

Great. Maybe I'll see if there's any questions in the audience. All right. So, you've touched on a couple of different products, right? So, you've talked about PVC, you talked about HDPE, you talked about other security products as well. HDPE is newer to the portfolio. So maybe talk to us about why that was an industry that was attractive and adjacent to what you were already doing?

Yes. So, one of the things -- great question, [ John ]. The way we think about our value add is unlike most of our competitors that think about their manufacturing core competency. In other words -- and we have good competitors, I mean, both from being good competitors and one to sell value and everything else. But they're typically focused on a manufacturing compete. In other words, our metal condo of 2 competitors. One I just mentioned was a brand like Nucor. Obviously, you guys know them. They're a steel producer that also say, where can I use their steel. But they're not going to get into PVC, HDP copper wire. Other competitor, private company, large steel makes e-beam, stuff like that, but they do just that. And you walk across everything else. The copper guys just make wire and cable. That's all they do. So, for us, I do think there's a tremendous value of literally, if I think of it more from a market segment, what do our customers want and let's provide every product so they can do that one order, one delivery, one invoice and have that on a truckload, on rebate program, one set of relationships and so forth. And we virtually have every product out there without making you, our shareholders, [indiscernible] whether it's fiberglass conduit, steel condo with PVC wrapped on top, PVC and all the rest of the different types, we have it all. The one we did not have was HDPE and talk about a huge opportunity following things. There's one large company that's like, let's say, 30%, 40% of the market, and then it's mom and pops. So very much like we did with PVC being Atkore 8 to 10 years ago, we rolled up the industry. Just buying each mom and pop. We can then have a national footprint. We can play and sell to the large customers, the gray bars, the WESCOs and everybody else that looking for a national relationship. We're giving them an alternative to the one large corporation that may be apathetic or not, that's a very subjective opinion there. But -- and it's also coincidentally. So now we have literally any type of conduit, I'm not aware of a single type of conduit in the world that we don't provide. It's in such a growing market. As I mentioned, our investors can go and look at what fiber optic is supposed to do. But it's easily with the BEADS Act and all the rest going on to double in the next 4 to 5 years. So, for me, it's all a question about can we add capacity quick enough? And I will even there explaining the on, I think the foresight of Atkore, we decided to do a double play of both inorganic. We acquired, I think, 4-plus companies in the last year just in this industry, but also to go organically, let's go and buy machines. So we bought extrusion lines that, by the way, take 18 months, 2 years to deliver in today's world, we bought them without knowing where we had space to do it. But not only we want to have our organic or inorganic play we'd start ordering machines. So literally, as we buy these companies, if they have space, we could add it into them. So, we'll have the capacity for a market that's supposed to double in size. And the only constraint is how quick are the blue collar workers out there to install the fiber optics. The government stimulus is there. Atkore is now here. And quite frankly, if that's a moderator, a governor on growth of how much blue collar to me, that's kind of just stabilizes the growth. There won't be air pockets, there won't be signed waves of sales is just literally for the next 5 to 7 years, it should be a pretty dynamic market. Also, we will bring pricing discipline. It's amazing to me, and I'm not just speaking HDPE, in this case, I'm thinking of other products. Private owners honestly don't get pricing. You would think they would because it's the biggest driver. But once in a while, they get stuck on being fair to their customer, they don't -- they despise their competition. Therefore, they want to undercut their competition just to cause pain versus, I think we know and we have great relationships with our customers, our distributors. They've given us awards; I could walk through every national award that Atkore has won over the last 2 or 3 years. So, it's a good positive relationship with distributors, but we understand how if I'm getting more orders in, then we have capacity to sell and our backlog is growing the quickest way to moderate that is keep raising the price. HDPE, the resin cost right now is going down. And every week, every month, we're slowly raising with the price that we're selling at. So those margins are continuing to expand at this -- on both parts of the equation. And our customers are excited to see us grow. And by the way, a nice environment for us a little bit on pricing. Our products overall, if you think about this building or about 3% of the cost of the building and you think of all the concrete, this deal, this is more of a must-stock deliver on time, don't screw it up, then it is, oh my God, what's happening to the cost of PVC? No one's [indiscernible] HDP, no one stopped to building your hotel because PVC prices doubled. Secondly, distributors like price increases. They want to be treated fairly. So, they don't want to have unfair relationships. We sell and have strong relationships with everybody, and I'm glad with that. But they'd rather take a 20% markup on 2x the price, then 20% markup on half the price, marked their inventories up and everything else. So, they're actually glad to have Atkore come into some of these industries and add more pricing discipline and have a national provider. So, it truly is a win-win-win.

No, that's great. And you touched on organic, inorganic. So maybe I'll just ask the question. Just kind of remind us your capital allocation strategy.

Yes. So, I think, Darren, David can add in if I miss any color here. But first, probably our debt level is low. It's 0.2, 0.3 net debt rate level. So, like no need to pay down debt. We're not planning to want it up like maybe if it's 1x gross debt level or something, but we're in a good position there. So first, it's probably organic investment. You saw that increase. Last year, we spent around 120 million. We've told investors here a week ago with our earnings call, we're going to plan 200 million. And again, you're going to see that more in 2025 because I'm going to tell you I'm rounding numbers. We've already made the investments that are going to make 2023 and 2024 is successful. So organic investment, number one, M&A number 2, and I'm going to come back to that. And then also when we have extra cash, then we'll do stock buybacks. We bought back -- we mentioned in the earnings call, like 15% of the stock. One of the neat things for -- I'm way saying it, David and I, I don't think from a shareholder perspective, there is a bad return. Like see here our capital deployment organically, 2, 3-year return on most investments. So that's a great use of your capital well above any weighted average cost of capital. 2, what I always kind of want to say and just do we, but we published, if you look at our earnings deck, for active physicians, we've owned over like 2 to 3 years. If you sum them all together, our -- what we paid to the current EBITDA we're producing is literally a 2. You get questions from shareholders all the time like, well, what today's price premium, and I don't know what each and every one of you are thinking, but if you're thinking a 10 multiple or 12 multiples, it's like, no, we're buying probably for a 5 or 6 multiple. It depends on the acquisition, sometimes lower, sometimes it may be slightly higher, but we're bringing 2 to 3 turns between the -- back to the Atkore businesses and the productivity, buying more effectively, but also the pricing discipline. So how many people out there can say they know of a single other company that look at their acquisitions and actually had synergistic effects expected little alone to go the price to EBITDA 2 or 3 years after you've owned them as a 2. So again, a phenomenal use of our shareholders' money. And then again, I definitely think even if you applied Bill's CEO math in IR that makes finding me on these round numbers, but where David and I communicated, we think in 2 years, we should be at an $18 EPS. Even if you apply a 10 to that, our stock price should be 180. And today, we're trading at less than 120. So, if we continue -- if we have extra cash, we'll just continue to buy up the company until the shareholders and market efficiency kicks in. So, there isn't a bad use of our capital.

Got you. Maybe we could circle back to that utility example you gave. I think you talked about grid hardening and a customer. Maybe just a little bit more around that, what you're actually seeing in the industry?

Yes, definitely seeing strong growth. While HCPE, we talked about for a moment, but that in ties into utilities of putting fiber optic lines in. And then also the electrification. So just think about all the different things as we -- everybody, I think, would accept there's going to be more solar panels. And I won't get into the products we provide to solar panels. But just to go, now you have 2 different sources. You have that hydro dam, coal-fired plant, whatever it is that's feeding the city. And now you have a solar plant. Well, now you have 2 sets of electrical lines coming in from that. You also had, which I did mention all the grid hardening, for example, and that's everything from preventing forest fires to hurricanes, just to the cosmetic look of trees coming down in neighborhoods as people continue to take electrical lines from the 19th, 20th century and as we move into the future and put those underground. And that's both PVC in most places, but it's also a lot of times if it's longer runs HDPE. So that's where HDPE's literally can we keep up which is a nice problem to have. And then with PVC, I think any concerns of anybody saying, yes, but residential is going to be down, like, okay, that's like 10% of our market. And as I explained already, with all this other demand, if residential does go down, I actually think it will help us because it will move contractors over, and that's the biggest constraint on that side. So, utilities are really expected to be strong for the future with the following [indiscernible].

And then can you remind us kind of the way your manufacturing footprint is organized and maybe how that compares to the industry?

Yes. So, a great question, [ John ]. A couple of thoughts. One, because our products are big and bulky, we have, as overall pretty diversified, and these are rough numbers in the U.S., probably 40-plus plants, 50 again, our 10-K and everything explains how many plants cross. But like where you typically think, oh, you're an auto manufacturing, you have your plan in Detroit. Here, the cost of freight, now it's a little bit less when our pricing is 3x as high. But back pre-COVID cost of freight was like 5%, 7% to go 500 miles. So, you just could not be -- when you set up a truckload of bulky products, you could not be a PVC provider or an HDPE provider and have a facility with say, in Georgia and expect to effectively ship to Chicago, [indiscernible] on ship to Utah and Nebraska or Seattle. So we for example, just using PVC, we have 10 facilities I can't say they're perfectly located because some of this you're buying acquisitions where they're available. But basically, we have the full United States covered within 500 miles and to give you a feel again of Atkore scope. There's 2 other competitors. Remember, 10 facilities with Atkore? #2 and #3, each have 4 facilities. So even -- and now you get in how many lines are in a plant and stuff like that, but you get a feel quickly on Atkore scope when 10 versus 4 and 4. And together between the 2 of us were 80-plus, 85% of the market. So, we truly have the reason, by the way, that then as we go forward the one order, one delivery, one invoice, we're not there yet, but with things like EDI and API where that orders come in electronically, right from their MRP to RRP and being shipped overnight. Again, everything you experienced with Amazon, we start delivering the next day where typically, a distributor would give you a complement, if you get the product there in 10 days, we will revolutionize the industry. And again, I think they were a competitive sustainable advantages beyond what's the product that just no one else in the industry is thinking about.

Great. I'll toss it to the audience. Otherwise, I have another final question. If there's anyone in the audience? So, you mentioned sustainability several times and earlier. So, one of the things we've kind of asked companies is, what does it mean to Atkore, right? And what are you doing to drive?

I think it's huge from the standpoint of -- it's just one of those back or values. It's the right thing to do, and I'm going to say a decade versus just short term. Now from that standpoint, again, I'm trying to think you as an investor and saying, well, everybody probably says that, okay. How many people are #48 in Newsweek for any manufacturer, any public corporation in the U.S., by the way, trading at whatever 6, 7 PE ratio, little alone the IBMs, Googles of the world. So, which, if you looked at Glass-Lewis ISS that rank scores were in the top quartile, top 20% of ESG scores. Great places to work 3 years in a row, top place is the work, Fortune Magazine, top 20 manufacturers. So, trying to give you some facts behind it versus, oh, the CEO, of course, says they believe in ESG. Yes, we do. We're driving it. We've won awards from [indiscernible] last thing because I know we're out of time. But for example, the EPA, multiple years in a row for environmental savings on carbon, but they just gave us an award for more than our savings, but they actually deep dive into our process. And even these large corporations with 0 carbon commitments, just in our process and literally, again, where David and myself all the way down through once a month, look at every carbon savings. So, I can tell you what mill is going to go in, what energy-saving VFD is going to go in, what lighting projects want to go in. This is the Atkore business system at work. So, it's not just like an aspiration or go buy carbon credits or commit to 2050 from pricing to carbon reductions to how we inboard people to every other facet of the business, it's a well-run ship with a great management team and lots of opportunity ahead.

Great. Well, I'd like to thank both Bill and David for being with us, and best of luck.

Cool. Thank you, [ John ]. Thank you, guys. [indiscernible]