Atos SE (ATO.PA) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Atos Group First Half 2025 Results Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to your speaker today, Philippe Salle, Chairman and CEO of Atos Group. Please go ahead.

Okay. Good morning, everybody. This is Philippe Salle. I'm in the room with Jacques-François. Let's start the presentation. I will do the business highlights and the operating performance. Jacques-François will then talk about the financial results, and we can -- we will wrap up with the outlook. So if we start on the first topic, first, the H1 performance is in line. We are very, I would say, pleased with the results that we have announced this morning. We reiterate the guidance of 2025, the guidance that we have given on the CMD in May. Second, on the right, you have the Genesis plan. So it's in force all the 7 pillars. In fact, already 3 pillars have been completed. And we are, I would say, well engaged on the restructuring plan that we have, of course, launched in the beginning of this year. We estimate that we are versus the restructuring half of, I would say, of the journey, and we'll be probably at 2/3 by the end of the year. Third point, we have signed with the French State yesterday night during the night, in fact, the SPA for the French -- the Advanced Computing. So remember that we had a press release on June the 2nd, saying that we have been able, I would say, to renegotiate the deal because we have changed the perimeter. And then we confirm exactly what we have announced on the 2nd of June. We are entering now, I would say, in the phase of the carve-out of the business and the closing will happen probably in Q2 '26 between March and June, so end of Q1 or in the course of Q2. And the last point, we strengthened the governance with Board members with a new Board member. In fact, I joined the company in June. And we have done also the reverse split accordingly, I would say, to the AGM of January, where we announced, I would say, that we will launch this in the course of Q2, in fact, '25. Key figures. So revenues around EUR 4 billion plus. The good news for me is that we are stabilizing, I would say, the revenues at roughly EUR 2 billion per quarter. The operating margin is EUR 113 million, which is roughly 3% of revenues, 2.8% to be really precise. And I would say it's 15% organic growth versus last year, which I think is quite a performance given, of course, the slide of the revenues. Order entry is EUR 3.3 billion, so it's improving. We are restarting, I would say, to -- I would say, chase, of course, the new deals, and it will continue, I would say, to increase in the course of the year. For information last year, it was at 73%. So the free cash flow, we have said already is around minus EUR 96 million. The net debt, EUR 1.7 billion and the liquidity, and we have advertised it, in fact, in the course of July at EUR 1.8 billion. If we look at the book-to-bill ratio, as you can see, in fact, we have taken quite a hit, in fact, in Q2 and Q3 last year. And of course, this translates, I would say, to loss of contracts in H2 last year. And of course, we have the effect in H1 of this year. But as you can see, it's improving, and we are, I would say, quite confident that it will now increase in the coming quarters. We have put some examples, in fact, in the below on the major contracts or wins or renewals that we had in Q2. Now if we go to Genesis, this is the 7 pillars I have shown, in fact, in May. So the growth is down. So we have, I would say, reorganized completely, I would say, the growth I would say the growth organization, industry it has been selected. The bid excellence has been reviewed. The only thing, of course, that we have not touched is M&A. HR is done. Country reviews, we have started, I would say, to launch this process. It's an acceleration, in fact, in H2 and I would say next year. We probably, I would say, exit probably 10 countries plus probably in the course of the second semester this year and will continue next year. Portfolio review is done also with the business line offers, the contract review, so what we call the red and black contracts and the practice turnaround. Now the gross margin and of course, the cost review, this is, of course, a journey that we have in the course of '25 and '26. So the billability rate, in fact, has increased. The presales is completely done. The project margin announcement, it's the move to offshore is in course. It's a journey also. It will take some time. Delivery excellence, R&D, that's the only topic that we have not touched, but the CTO, who is joining the company on September the 1st, we launched, of course, this project. Cost review, everything is under review. I would say we have done all -- I would say we have identified, I would say, all the savings. And then the cash, DSO and DPO is in force. Of course, it's a journey also for the next probably 2 or 3 years. The DPO probably we will finish by '25, '26 and DSO for me it's a 2-, 3-year project. Securitization, we will not do anything this year. CapEx has been reviewed and tax management with a new tax manager. In fact, there is a lot of things here. Now if I just zoom on the some projects. So as I say, on growth, this pillar is done. So we have a new operating model. We have also reviewed, I would say, the backbone of our sales. I don't know if you -- I have said that, but we have what we call CEP, so client executive partners around 300 of them, roughly 1/3 will be probably changed in the course of H1. So some of them have been replaced already and probably in the course of H2. The idea for us is to have, I would say, the full team by the end of the year. And we expect, of course, then to, I would say, to see an increase, I would say, in the pipeline, of course, and in the deals in H2 and next year. Portfolio review, as I say, we have already exited one country, but it will accelerate for sure. And the low-margin contracts, we are now back to only 3 contracts and probably 2 next year. And we are trying, I would say, probably to exit these 2 by '26 or '27. Of course, it will depend on the negotiations that we have with the customer. Delivery and SG&A, as I said, the billability rate now is at 79%. So we are above 79%, so plus 3% versus the end of '24. The offshoring rate, remember that we are targeting around 65%. So we have again roughly 1 point. The cost base of the G&A has been reduced, I would say, by 10%. And as I say, overall, I would say the envelope of Genesis has been -- we are roughly at 50% of the envelope. So of course, some exit have been done at the end of H1 this year. It will accelerate, in fact, in H2 in some countries because we have negotiated, I would say, with the unions the exit. And as I say, we will be probably between 60% and 70% of the plan by the end of the year. So if I look at the operating performance by segment now. So just as a reminder, what was the revenues last year and this year, remember that we have a scope, which is Worldgrid and foreign exchange, which is mainly, I would say, the U.S. euro dollar. As you can see, we are roughly at EUR 2 billion -- around EUR 2 billion, I would say, per quarter stabilizing, I would say, the revenues and minus 17% versus last year for the first semester. In terms of, I would say, the revenue by regional business unit. So as you can see in blue, you have Atos and in orange, you have Eviden. So Atos, in fact, the hit we had, in fact, was U.S. and U.K. where I would say the customer were more, let's say, frightened on the situation of Atos in the course of '23 and '24 and to a lesser extent, in fact, in Europe, so for Benelux and Germany and France. As you can see on the right, the #1 country right now, given the new exchange rate is Germany, around 19% of the turnover, the revenues of the company for H1. Then you have the U.S., 17%; France and U.K. around 15%, also international market, then Benelux and Nordics and Eviden around 10%. If I look at the operating margin, so we are quite a good news. So we are roughly flattish versus last year. But if you take into account, I would say, the scope with Worldgrid and exchange rate, we are, in fact, increased the operating margin by 15%. Now if we go deeper, I would say, by business unit and SBU, in fact, the good news is that Atos is around 6% already. For the first time, Germany is positive in H1. And of course, there will be much more to come with the restructuring plan that is in force that will, in fact, will start in H2 this year and will be completed, in fact, in H1 next year. U.S. and Canada, 10%, and I will come back. France is 2%, which is also still low, and there will be more to come also with restructuring. U.K. and Ireland around 9%, international market, 8% and Benelux is 6%. What is very important is also to understand that we have a seasonality for the SBU of Eviden. So Eviden is negative in the first half and will be strongly positive in H2. So overall, I would say Eviden, of course, will be positive for the fiscal year of '25. Now if I deep dive, let's say, geo by geo on the Atos -- remember that Atos is service and Eviden is hardware and software. So Germany first, the biggest country, as you can see, minus 8% in terms of organic growth. We have been able, I would say, to resign a very big contract, in fact, with one of the OEMs in the automotive sector and with a positive margin because it was a contract that was losing money. As I said, the operating margin now is positive. Of course, it's quite, I would say, close to 0, but it will be strongly, in fact, impacted by the restructuring positively, of course, for '26. So we are definitely seeing that in '26, we will have a very tough -- very steep, in fact, increase in profitability, and we will be probably back at 5% plus in terms of margin. Then if I go to the next one, the U.S. and Canada, this is, of course, one of the region, where we have been hit, I would say, severely in terms of contracts rundown because, of course, as you can imagine, in the [indiscernible] world, let's say, the risk department probably are stronger than, I would say, the case, I would say, in Continental Europe or in other countries. And probably, I would say, some of our customers were a little bit frightened. We have been, of course, also hit by the competition. We have, let's say, used the, I would say, the weakness of Atos last year to try to steal some business, not the case, of course, in H2 this year. But for sure, it was an opportunity for the competition, I would say, to try to, I would say, to harm us a little bit. We have been able, I would say, to, of course, [ shave ] costs very rapidly. So the margin is increasing. Of course, it's a decrease in terms of quantum because, as you can imagine, the decrease of turnover is too strong, I would say, to have a profitability that can stay, I would say, at the level of last year. Now next, the France also hit roughly of minus 11%. And also, we had a very slow start of this year in the public sector that is very strong in France. Remember, it has hit, in fact all of our competition. Remember, since that in France, there were no budget for some time. It was not possible for our public, I would say, customers to spend or to launch new projects, and that's why there is a delay. We definitely think that there will be much more opportunities, in fact, in H2. The good news is that we have been able to increase, I would say, the operating margin. It's still too low for sure at 2%, but it's much better than last year given the fact that we have also lost some contracts. If I go now to U.K., same thing. We have been able to stabilize, I would say, I would say the operating margin in euro. But in fact, in terms of percentage, as you can see, we increased it roughly by 3 points. Still decrease also like in the U.S. for the same reason. And also remember that in the U.K., that's where the BPO contracts are there, and we have, of course, closed some of them. There are only 2 remaining, and we want to close, of course, both of them in the course of '26, '27. I already said, in fact, that there is one that is going to be terminated, in fact, in the course of next year, normally '26 or '27. And the second one is a much longer contract, and we are in negotiations, I would say, to stop this contract. Now last, international markets, also quite, I would say, some decrease. Remember that in the international markets, so you have Latin America, Africa, Eastern Europe and Asia, and we have also major -- and the major events business unit, of course, with the Olympics with, I would say, strong turnover that was the last year. So there is an impact. And we have also a strong impact, in fact, in Switzerland also, where some clients have decided, I would say, to stop some contracts. However, as you can see, we have been able to manage the margin at EUR 46 million, roughly 8%. So we are quite, I would say, pleased with the generics, I would say, actions that we have taken in this region. Last, Benelux and Nordics, also an impact, less probably, I would say, than the rest of the, let's say, the other regions, around minus 5%. Same thing, I would say, with the public sector that was impacted also with the, I would say, in the beginning of this year. And the good news, as you have seen is that we have done a lot of restructuring in this region, mainly in Benelux, in fact, in Belgium and Netherlands. And we have also signed new contracts that are in force, in fact, in Q2. So we are quite confident, I would say, for the rest of the year. With this, I give the floor to Jacques-François to review the number -- sorry, I have Eviden, sorry. I went a little bit too fast. So Eviden, remember, this is the hardware and software. Again, this -- I think we said that, but I would say this year is a very particular year with the Jupiter project and Exascale that we have sold to Germany. And remember also that we are also in the process of selling another Exascale, in fact, for France next year. But in fact, with the, I would say, the pattern of the delivery, most of the revenues and the margin will be in H2 between, let's say, September and December. So as I say, we are at minus EUR 33 million, so roughly flattish versus last year. But in fact, the H2 will be, of course, very strong and the profitability will come back on a yearly basis for Eviden. Jacques-François, it's yours.

Thank you, Philippe. Good morning, everyone. Now that Philippe has gone through the drivers of the business operational performance, let me review the P&L items below the operating as well as the cash flow statement and the balance sheet. So let's start with the P&L. As Philippe indicated, our operating margin amounted to EUR 113 million in H1 2025. We incurred reorganization and rationalization charges for EUR 379 million in total, of which EUR 355 million reorganization costs, as we have made significant progress in the execution of our restructuring program and EUR 24 million provision related to real estate lease. We did not impair any goodwill this semester, contrary to last year when we booked a EUR 1.6 billion noncash charge. Other items reached a negative EUR 174 million. They include litigation provisions for EUR 107 million and asset impairment for EUR 35 million. The net cost of our debt reached EUR 162 million, up from EUR 73 million last year, reflecting our new debt structure and including PIK interest -- noncash interest as well as the amortization of the 2024 fair value adjustment of the debt according to IFRS 9. Other financial expenses were EUR 40 million in the half due to debt lease and pensions. As a result, our net income group share amounted to minus EUR 696 million. Okay. Moving on to the cash flow statement. Free cash flow generation improved significantly year-on-year from minus EUR 593 million to minus EUR 96 million in H1 2025. We generated EUR 309 million OMDA in the first 6 months and expensed EUR 93 million in CapEx and EUR 122 million in leases. Our change in working capital requirement once we neutralize for the working capital action was positive of EUR 167 million. You might recall that these working capital actions I'm referring to are the cash that we received in advance from some customers at the end of 2024, and these customers were mainly from the public sector. This positive EUR 167 million comes mainly from the lower revenue and therefore, lower associated trade receivables. Due to timing effect, our cash restructuring expense was only, if I can say so, only EUR 154 million. It is expected to accelerate in the second half of the year. Tax paid was EUR 13 million, mainly due to one-off credits in the half and cash cost of debt EUR 80 million. Other items amounted to EUR 109 million. They included litigation settlements and onerous contracts cash out. As a result, our free cash outflow was limited to EUR 96 million. Turning now to the net debt bridge. At June 30, 2025, net debt was EUR 1.681 billion compared to EUR 1.238 billion as of December 31st, 2024. Beyond free cash flow, it reflected the impact of the change in working capital actions for EUR 176 million, negative ForEx impact for EUR 112 million and other elements such as PIK. Another way to look at net debt is to start with cash and cash equivalents for EUR 1.4 billion, which I deduct from the gross debt for a nominal value of EUR 3.1 billion, and then we end up again with a net debt close to EUR 1.7 billion. This is excluding the IFRS 9 fair value adjustment. As a result, leverage ratio increased to 4.0x during the period. I remind you that our target is to reduce leverage below 1.5x at the end of 2028. Before handing back over to Philippe for the outlook, I would like to clarify for you the impact of ForEx during the semester. Whilst we have a degree of natural transactional hedging, we are exposed to currency translation. In the half, 17% of our revenues were USD denominated, hence, the impact on reported aggregates. We also had a significant portion of our cash position in USD, which resulted in a negative impact on our net debt in euros. The euro to USD conversion rate evolution also affected our equity position, which led when we added to our negative net result to a negative equity position in consolidated of minus EUR 90 million at the end of June. You should be aware that currently, we are under constraints, which prevents from systematically hedging our transactional risk. However, with the ongoing normalization of our financial situation, we will increasingly be in a position to actively manage our currency exposure. Thank you all for your attention. I will now hand back to Philippe.

Thank you, Jacques-François. So on the outlook, as I say, first, we confirm, of course, the '25 guidance that we have given in May. So the EUR 8.5 billion revenues, remember, it is, of course, on the FX at the end of '24. So the FX could have an impact around EUR 100 million. The cost -- the operating margin at 4%, and I think we can touch the 4% this year. And the cash will be at EUR 300 maximum, let's say, EUR 350 million. We'll try to do more, of course, so it's possible that we have some good news. For 2026, I just want to reiterate what we have said in May, there is nothing new. We should rebound in terms of top line, positive organic growth. And we should be also cash positive in terms of free cash, of course, before debt repayment and any M&A that will probably restart in H2 next year. And then for 2028, I would say we continue to estimate that we will have a top line growth around 5% to 7%. It will be less, of course, next year because we are recovering, and I definitely think it will accelerate, in fact, in '27 and '28. We are still looking at a 10% operating margin. And of course, deleveraging, I would say, the balance sheet starting, in fact, in '26 next year and of course, continuing in '27 and '28 with, I would say, a net debt to OMDAL below 1.5x. With this, we can turn to the Q&A session, and we are ready to take any questions.

[Operator Instructions] We will now take the first question from the line of Frederic Boulan from Bank of America.

Fred at Bank of America. Firstly, a question on top line. If you can discuss any thoughts around the trajectory for the rest of the year. Was Q2 as you expected? Any specific assumptions for the rest of the year in terms of demand and sales cycle? Any impact from the seasonality in Q3, Q4? I think we had the Olympics last year in Q3. So firstly, on revenue. Second question on the free cash flow. So in your liquidity update, you had, I think, EUR 373 million negative cash flow in H1, if we include working cap actions and FX versus the kind of EUR 96 million adjusted number this morning. If you can discuss for the rest of the year beyond the EUR 350 million kind of adjusted number, any other impact around working cap and FX we should expect, assuming the FX stays where it is? And then lastly, on the cost -- and maybe within that, a follow-up on the cost-cutting plan, you're saying 2/3 will be done by the end of the year. So what does it mean in terms of restructuring cash out for the second half?

Okay. So on the top line, I would say we are -- first, the Q2 was on expectations, and there was no surprise for us. As I say, we are stabilizing, in fact, the turnover and the revenues, around EUR 2 billion. In Q3, we estimate that we will again be around this EUR 2 billion, a little bit less, but I would say continuing and then it will start to increase in Q4. So I would say it's a stabilization for the first 3 quarters, and I would say, an increase, in fact, in Q4. So we continue, I would say, to see, I would say, a stable basis, which I think is very important. In fact, we didn't lose that many contracts in H2, probably only one that's a big size. And it's normal, of course, that we -- we cannot renew, I would say, 100% of the contract, but I would say most -- more than 90% of the contracts has been renewed. So I think it's quite a good news. I have toured already because I have decided, I would say, to meet with the top 100 clients. I have met probably 40 of them. And definitely, I think that the trust has come back. Some of them are reopening of the tender because for some of our customers, it was blocked. And I think it's good news because we're going to have, I would say, more tenders to answer. In fact, the pipe is increasing for H2. For the cash flow, probably I will give the floor to Jacques-François.

Yes, Fred. So yes, a couple of elements to answer your question. First of all, it's the bridge between the EUR 373 million and the minus EUR 96 million. I think it's clear for you and for everybody that's on one hand, the working capital normalization for the cash in advance, which we received at the end of the year. So because we received at the end of December, EUR 319 million and at the end of June, much less than that. So there is an impact, which if you want to look at the underlying performance, working capital, et cetera, we need to neutralize. So that's an impact of EUR 176 million to neutralize. And the second element indeed is the FX. So second part is looking forward for the rest of the year. So a, on FX, I cannot comment because by definition, it's a bit difficult to predict. The only thing I can say on FX is that we constantly look at ways to mitigate our risks and to repatriate cash through dividend distribution through capital reduction or whatever. And already in H2, we have taken some steps, let's say, to significantly reduce our exposure on the debt side -- on the cash and debt side. Regarding working capital, my expectation is that at the end of the year, we should be in the same ballpark in terms of cash in advance compared to last year, which will make a more natural normalization, if that's clear for you.

And Fred, just for information, we don't do working capital actions. I just want to make sure that we receive advanced payments in clients, but we don't ask for them and we don't give rebates. It's very important, and that's a big change for the company. And on the DPO, on the suppliers, we don't stop paying suppliers. So it has been paid accordingly, I would say, to the contract terms. In fact, if you look at the balance sheet that you have in the press release, you can see also that on the supplier side, so the liability, in fact, it has decreased -- the amount has decreased, which is in line, of course, with the decrease of the turnover.

Sorry, Jacques-François, just to clarify on your commentary. So you're saying the EUR 390 million advance payment, that's going to be 0 at the end of the year.

No, not necessarily. Unfortunately, I would love because I would say I don't want this. But we cannot stop some public, I would say, customers to pay in advance, and we will probably have again, payments in advance by the end of the year. But of course, we will advertise them because we want to be very, I would say, transparent.

Yes. And my comment was more that without doing anything, I expect that we will be in the same ballpark, even if we are not organizing, provoking, desiring to have that by the nature of the business and our exposure to the public sector, in particular, and some habits, which have been there for many, many years, we have plenty of customers who are used to that. So in terms of the way to manage their budget and you know how it goes when it's decided by whatever their parliament or things like that, they have a vested interest in paying us before the end of the year. So in my assumption, I would not be surprised if at the end of the year, we are around the EUR 300 million mark for the cash in advance. And on your question on restructuring, Frederic, so of course, Genesis is accelerating. So we will have more cash out, I would say. But it will be spread between H2 this year and probably H1 '26. I definitely think that -- most of the restructuring will be done by the summer of '26. So Genesis, I would say, restructuring will be almost complete. There will be still some countries continuing because it takes more time in H2 '26 and H1 '27. But probably, I would say the ballpark will be between H2 this year and H1 next year.

Yes. If I can add on this point as well, you have seen or you're currently looking at the cash out in H1 related to restructuring, exit of people amounted to EUR 149 million, whereas the P&L charge amounted to EUR 355 million. So there is a lot which has been signed and agreed. Just the implementation will come in the next month, as Philippe was just explaining.

We will now take the next question from the line of Nicolas David from ODDO BHF.

First, I would like to come back on the commercial activity and revenue trends. Do you expect a significant improvement of your book-to-bill in H2? And if yes, do you think that you can get really closer to 100% quite soon? And looking at the trajectory for Q4 and for next year, could you please clarify the fact that in Q4, you expect a stabilization year-on-year, still like you discussed at the CMD or it's more a quarter-on-quarter stabilization Q4 versus Q3? And for next year, given that you're probably ending the year with a book-to-bill, which will be way lower than 100%. What gives you so much confidence that you can have an organic growth? And if you were to decline again next year in organic terms, what kind of decline could you absorb without needing more restructuring to get your ambition -- to get to your ambition of margin improvement?

So I would say the pattern of revenues for this year, as I say, we expect Q3 to be around EUR 2 billion, EUR 2 billion minus. And last year, I think we were EUR 2.3 billion. So it's minus EUR 15 million, minus EUR 16 million. So we are still, I would say, in the same pattern in terms of organic decrease, and then it will change in Q4 because we will be probably at 0 plus. The book-to-bill will increase, yes, we will be above 80%. Are we going to be close to 100%? The goal is to be roughly at 100% in Q4, but I would say on the year-to-date, probably a little bit below. So we will close, I would say, between 90% and 100% at the end of this year. Remember that the book-to-bill also, it's not, I would say, a precise measure of the organic growth of next year because it depends if it is, I would say, long-term contracts or short-term contracts. And that's why I think we need to -- it is not an easy reading, I would say, from the book-to-bill, unfortunately, to derive, I would say, the organic growth for next year. And I will come back to you because I think we'll give probably better measures in the course of next year so that you have a better reading, I would say, to translate the book-to-bill in revenues. It's not an easy reading in fact. So I would say we have -- the pipeline, in fact, is increasing, which I think is very good news. So definitely, we think that we're going to strike new deals in the course of H2 that will, of course, give revenues for next year. Now I don't expect any decrease in top line next year. But as you say, if it happens, I don't think it's a big deal for us because the restructuring that we have is quite heavy, in fact. So the operating margin will strongly increase, in fact, in the course of '26, whatever is the top line. If we have more top line, of course, it will accelerate even more. And if we don't have, I would say, we will still have, I would say, a very sharp increase in terms of profitability. The question, of course, then it's a question for me, but I would say I will not take this decision because I'm quite confident on the top line for next year. But if it happens that it is weaker than expected, I think we can, of course, continue probably to shave some costs. So there is no problem for us. So remember that the way we are shaving cost is 4 different buckets and the first one is the billability rate. So we have 79% now. We will be probably at 80% plus in Q3. And we will continue, I would say, to touch the 85%, which is the target. We estimate that we can touch this target by end of '26. 85% is the right level, whatever is the revenue. Unfortunately, this does not change anything. The second one, of course, is the G&A, the SG&A. So this one, of course, we have -- we will reduce heavily and we can -- we have some measures we can continue. We are doing a lot of things, in fact, in IT, in real estate, in different, I would say, measures. For example, we have reduced the number of [indiscernible] that are in different countries. If we need, I would say, to accelerate or, let's say, do more, I think it's still possible for us. There is no problem for that. The third one is the move to offshore, and I definitely think that we have also -- so we have gained 1 point. We can -- and remember, 1 point is roughly 0.4% of margin. If I see, I would say that we are, let's say, weakening the top line next year, we can accelerate the move to offshore and probably have 2 or 3 points. So we, I would say, protect the margin for sure. But the margin effect of 4% this year will be much higher next year, whatever is the top line. And then, of course, we have what we call the non-personnel costs, where we touch in the G&A. So engineering fact, it's, of course, the personnel cost and non-personnel costs, where there are a lot of initiatives. And in fact, I will accelerate the NPC by September. There are a lot of things that we're going to start reviewing, in fact, after the summer.

Very clear. And just -- so in terms of book-to-bill, is it fair to say so that in your H1 book-to-bill, the average length of contract is probably lower, shorter than what the company was used to book before you were there when the H1 book-to-bill was more than 100% historically?

I don't -- I'm not sure of this, unfortunately. So we can come back to you on this comment, but no, I don't think so. I'm not sure it's shorter. In fact, after that, and that's why we need to segment the book-to-bill, and that's why, in fact, we need to put more, I would say, I don't know if it's clarity or whatever, but I would say more, let's say, transparency, I think it's not a transparency. But remember that in the book-to-bill, so the contracts that we signed, there are for me 2 kinds of contracts, what we call managed services. Usually, it's contracts only 3 to 5 years. And then I would say the rest, which is roughly the digital, the smart platforms, AI, cyber, usually that are contracts of less than 1 year or 1 year plus. It depends. Sometimes in cyber, we have 3 or 4 years contract, but I would say we will segment probably the portfolio between, let's say, long-term contracts over 1 year and, let's say, short-term contracts below 1 year. I don't have, I would say, these numbers, unfortunately, and that's what I said. We will come back, I would say, to the market probably in the course of '26 to have a better understanding of the portfolio. But after that, the dynamics, of course, is quite different between the 2 segments. And in fact, it's not because you have a book-to-bill of 100% that you're going to grow, unfortunately. So that's why I think we'll give probably, I would say, more comments on this one. But I don't think that it has a short term, I don't think so. I think the contracts that we have resigned most of them are between 3 and 5 years. So I don't think so.

Yes. I was thinking maybe shorter in terms of ramp-up phase of ramping up faster and getting into production faster than or maybe [indiscernible] size of contract.

No. I don't know this because I was not there. So that's a good comment, okay. We can come back to you on this question.

We will now take the next question from the line of Martin Porta from Amber Capital.

I only have one, and it's for you, Philippe. Could you please share with us how much did you invest in the stock? And were there any special funding related to these acquisitions?