Attacq Limited (ATT.JO) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, and thank you so much for everyone for joining us this morning on our close here in November before our interim results come out in March. It's a wet day, wet here in Johannesburg. So we're always grateful for the rain and the beautiful gardens that come from the rain. So always see a lot of rains, a lot of blessings. And as I reflect over the last few months in South Africa, we've definitely seen a lot of tailwinds coming together with a steady return of business confidence in South African economy with the removal of the gray listing, load shedding is a word that we don't use that often. But I think the -- what will this -- well actually has [indiscernible] and progress we've made on green energy and the incredible impact that the green energy has brought into our portfolios and Michael can also talk to the initiatives and the impact on our NOI. We've also seen a stable growth in the economy. We've seen the first decline in unemployment in South Africa, especially in youth that has also been incredibly encouraging with inflation targets trending down towards 3, which also brought a recent ease on interest rates and all boding well for some tailwinds in South Africa and boosting business confidence. And we've definitely seen that business confidence comes through in some of the deal making and corporates wanting to potentially increase their space and also spending quite significant amount of money in their [indiscernible]. Today, we are -- going to talk a little bit about how is our strategy influencing our performance. And joining me are today is Mike, Dave and Raj. Raj, this will be your last pre-close with us. So we have made the [indiscernible] that Raj will do the entire pre-close today, but we won't do that to you today. So yes, we're very fortunate to bring a strong performance highlights for this year as we remain focused on our precinct focused initiatives in Waterfall, especially launching Waterfall Junction, Logistics Hub, which is a 600,000 square meter logistics precinct and David will provide some update on the logistics and what we're doing there. With that, we continue to roll out developments in waterfall. We've got incredible infrastructure development going into the ground, really unlocking future opportunities with land and bridges that [indiscernible] built, upgrades in our portfolio as well as incredible placemaking efforts. We've always said, we need to bring vibe and energy to our precinct and Michael will take you some -- through some small but yet impactful placemaking efforts. We also continue to deliver -- we delivered completed developments over the last quarter, and Dave will take you through those developments that we've completed. Also that with a lot of development and infrastructure development comes a lot of disciplined capital allocation, deploying our capital sensibly and strategically to ensure that we unlock investments that supports our precinct but also supports long-term growth for our shareholders in our portfolio. And -- we've also maintained our credit rating A+ with a stable outlook. Our debt capacity and liquidity remains strong and strong that we can unlock the great opportunities we are seeing, but also strong enough that if there's any uncertainty that we can weather any storm. So I think we're really well positioned from a debt liquidity and balance sheet capacity and Raj will provide us an update on the debt. We also continue to focus on our portfolio, NOI growth through strategic initiatives, as I said, in our portfolio, leasing activity. You'll see the new brands that we've signed up over the last few months. Our portfolio trading really well with some really great wins in turnover. As you can see, our turnover has gone up. And also, we're tracking footfall and Mike will take you -- provide some insight on what's happening in the retail portfolio. So a really good cost containment happening in the portfolio and really tracking very well with the in-force portfolio. So looking ahead for the balance of the year, we remain committed to leverage these incredible opportunities with the tailwinds in the portfolio. Our precinct strategy remains a focus for us at the shapes that we have [indiscernible] future -- story for the future and our guidance remains on track to achieve a distributable income per share of between 7% to 10%. Mike, would you give us an update on the portfolio?

Thank you very much, Jackie. I'll just keep through the wonderful new KFC drive in George. So this report will relate mostly to the 4 months up until the end of October. I want to start with just some NOI updates for the 4 months to the end of October on non- income, we are already up 16.1% if you compare that to the first 4 months of the previous period. That's, of course, the advertising exhibition and other related income that we generate in our portfolio. So that's quite positive at the moment. Our net cost-to-income ratio has grown to 24.5%. Now that will be a negative indicator. Just remember that of the first 4 months financially, 3 of the 4 are what we would term winter months for the billing of utilities. And that is usually done at a recovery ratio that's below the average for the year. There's certainly no concerns from our part on that, and we definitely believe that, that will correct as we start billing for more months towards the conclusion of the financial year. Very positive is the green energy revenue that we're generating. That's also 23% ahead of the corresponding 4 months for the previous year. And that's just on a like-for-like basis, we've got more plants in operation today than we had 12 months ago, certainly considering all the new plants we installed in Waterfall City and also George. So a lot of positives. At the moment, the net property income on a portfolio level is tracking budget well to meet Jackie's guidance that she mentioned earlier. Just from a core KPI perspective, our portfolio is doing well. Occupancy has grown to 92.6%. I'll touch on that on the next slide. Our collection rate remains strong at 10.3%. And then from a water resilience perspective, we've added actually 3.2 megaliters of water capacity just in the last 4 months. Those plants have all been commissioned, and I'll talk a bit more about that on the next slide. Retail, the density growing at 4.8%. Once again, there will be a slide in a bit more detail later on, supported by foot count growth of 1.5%. Something that really excites all of us here at Attacq, and we might have touched on it just briefly in the previous results presentations is the strategy of placemaking. This is a strategy in place in all of our precincts around South Africa. But of course, Waterfall City providing us the biggest canvas to this new initiative. And in collaboration with the famous brands guys, we started handing out free ice cream in Waterfall City at the start of October and really in a key way without a lot of advertising, we just started doing it testing what the impact would be. And in the middle of the slide, you will see just some of the comments we've received based on that initiative. Outside of those comments, there's just a story I want to mention because it really resonates with me. 2 weeks ago, one of our property management members received an e-mail from a client. This is quite a senior individual at one of our clients e-mail basically how exciting and nice initiative is the excitement in their office 15 to 20 minutes before they have to start working. We only hand out the ice cream at 11:00 on a Thursday morning, but it seems that most for them. The vibe the office they all work together, the nature of the queue when the guys queue for the ice cream, the CEO can stand next to a service provider, some landscaping because in that, all of us are equal when we queue for an ice cream. But the most important part was that individual bumping into a university acquaintance that has also been working in W City for the past 3 years, and they didn't know that. But they have the opportunity to reconnect in that queue, have an ice cream, and that's now a relationship. And I really think when we talk about community and what we're trying to achieve in our precincts that story is really a testament of what we are doing. If we turn our attention to the leasing activity that happened in the last 4 months, you will see the occupancy bridge on the top of the slide. So just confirming that our occupancy has increased from 91.6% to 92.6% at the end of October. And you will see in the individual categories there what individual occupancies are. Quite exciting for us is that we signed another close to 9,000 or 10,000 square meters of leases, but that will only commence after the 31st of October. So they are actually not even captured in the bar on the right-hand side. So once again, a lot of positive indicators on the leasing side, specifically in Waterfall City with regard to the [indiscernible]. If we look at our renewals that we have concluded in the last months, our success rate has been 91% in total for the portfolio on renewals with an average reversion of 1.8%. Retail had a total reversion is positive 1.3% and negative 8.6%. Once again, the sample being quite small so early in the year. If we look forward beyond October in the next 12 months, there's about 127,000 square meters of renewals we still need to do. Of that, the biggest chunk, 92,000 square meters is in retail, and that relates to the Africa 10-year renewal cycle. Also a lot of positive news on that. We have concluded the commercial arrangements, maybe all the agreements have not been signed yet. But certainly at this stage, there is nothing that would indicate an increased risk in the expiry profile for of Africa in April of next year. So all in all, a lot of positive news from a leasing side. If I turn my attention to our retail portfolio, I mentioned earlier that the average growth for the portfolio has been 4.8%. So this is on a 12-month rolling basis. The bar chart will also disclose the individual assets. What's interesting is if I refer to the line graph on the bottom right, you will see that our food counts are close to static, some months even dipping below September and October being a really interesting example where in the previous year in 2024, that school holiday fell in the last part of September. In this year, it fell in October. So once again, you will see the impact that has on both counts and also on turnover generated in our retail assets. Within the assets themselves, notwithstanding some of the macro challenges we might face, we've had a number of new stores and upgrades to the Mall of Africa, we had Coach, Kate Spade opened recently, which is a fantastic addition to sort of a midlife category at Mall of Africa. Silky is a Kate Spade cosmetics brand. They had a really successful trial in our Soup pop-up store and after that successful trial signed a permanent lease with us, once again, bring sort of a localized brand to the Mall of Africa fabric. And once again, just in the recent months, Mall of Africa won the Coolest Mall award. We've quoted there the eighth consecutive year. This feels like the year in review. But we're very proud of the work that our team at Mall of Africa do, keeping them relevant, making sure that whether that's marketing initiatives or tenant mix that we stay relevant to the customer base. And of course, these awards are just for that hard work and effort also won the Spectrum Award. This is a marketing award run by the South African Council of Shopping Centers. It's for the best marketing campaign over the last 12 months. Mall of Africa won that for their collaboration with S. And then in the month of September, we hosted a heritage campaign. And what we're really impressed about is that campaign actually had 1 million impressions on Instagram once again just showing the reach of Mall of Africa and its target audience. At Lynnwood Bridge, we the Pro shop that recently completed an upgrade. I was there a week ago. It's a fantastic upgrade to that store. In Garden Mall, a revamped food lover market opened in the last 4 months. At Eikestad Mall, we took an opportunity to rightsize a number of brands. So those new stores actually Old Khaki was an expansion, and we used the Old Khaki expansion to relocate studies. So once again, just making sure that our clients straight on optimal footprints, always being cognizant of that [indiscernible] sales ratio and what they are able to afford on the turnover they can generate on their [indiscernible]. And in MooiRivier Mall, we had unique to the client mix there, just a great addition for the town of Potchefstroom, also refurbishment [indiscernible]. And once again, we're very grateful to our retailers. Oftentimes, there is some noise more recently about the state and the health of our retailers, but certainly committing capital to our assets, committing capital to upgrades is certainly positive for our portfolio. In the initial slide, I mentioned the results of a number of our efforts more recently, although sort of the end result just in the last 4 months. A lot of the effort has been coming over the last 12 to 18 months. But when we did our year-end disclosure, we showed the amount of water backup we had at that stage, 4.3 megaliters commissioned. In the last 4 months, I'm happy to say we commissioned another 3.2 megaliters of backup. So at the moment, the total sits just underneath 7.6 megaliters with another 3.9 busy commissioned. The projects just need to be completed and signed off before we can add them to the total backup water. So really from a resilience perspective, we are happy that our assets in all instances can potentially trade notwithstanding some challenges we might face in certain councils. We've also added more smart water meters. Once again, all of that talks to our smart utility hub, where we monitor consumption in-house being able to respond to any leaks or any indicators that we might see. And then from energy mix, I mentioned earlier that 23% growth in the energy generated for the first 4 months of this year versus prior year. It's because of some of the plants coming online. Also, our PPA is on track as previously communicated. And then very important, once again, we have 10 PV systems that are registered for are. This is also important from a perspective where those energy credits could go and certainly becoming part of the value proposition when we engage with our tenants. So that's the operational update for the last 4 months with that over to David.

Thanks, Mike.

Okay. So just focusing on a few highlights on the development space. So as Jackie mentioned, we completed 2 developments, the one being Ellipse Phase 3 as well as Vantage 12.1. 12.1 is essentially the second building of the 5 data centers that's going to be built at LP 9 North. Currently, we've got just under 85,000 squares of development activity, which is essentially defined developments under construction and approved pipeline, of which an effective amount is just under 46,000. So that totals a total CapEx inclusive of land of ZAR 1.9 billion or an effective amount of ZAR 1.1 billion. So really, really healthy numbers. From an Ellipse standpoint, we launched Phase 3 2 weeks ago. You'll see the sales on Ellipse has been exceptional. And we also launched obviously, the new residential scheme Aspire in May, which is a JV with Tricolt, which Attacq is a 25% shareholder. Sales are going extremely well there. We currently sold 131 units with 217 units. This development will be attached to the Mall of Africa. So the intention is that we will be going to the investment committee early in the new year for approval and with hopefully get council approvals on all our plans so we can be in the ground around March, April of next year. Just touching on some of the developments and the bottom graph is the effective numbers. So Gateway East, our collaboration hub attached to the Mall of Africa and at the entrance to Waterfall City, going well, a little bit behind schedule with the rains, but we will catch that up. So that's a 12,500 square development with a bit of retail at the bottom. We're currently on the second story there. As Jackie mentioned, we've launched Waterport Junction 2 weeks ago. I think the brokers were really, very complementary on the site and what we've got planned there. We're currently in the ground there on a 20,000 square spec warehouse of which we are the effective shareholder of 50% of that Sanlam Properties is the other 50%. Aspire, I mentioned already, we are currently finalizing the lease on the client-led warehouse, which is also going to be a Phase 1 at Waterfall Junction, and we should be in the ground in March next year. A really, really exciting project just approved at Investment Comm last week was a new hotel conference, which is attached to the Mall of Africa. I'll touch on a little bit of the details later, but essentially, we are a 75% shareholder there. And I'll mention the JV partner also probably at interims. So our approved pipeline of 22,000 and effective of 45,000, I think it is a really, really strong set of results. If I just touched on some infrastructure, I mentioned it at results. This is probably the biggest phase of infrastructure we've put into Waterfall since the launch of Waterfall City a number of years ago. So the 2 big components is Waterfall Junction, which is highlighted in red. Phase 1 is already proclaimed, where as I mentioned, we're currently building a spec and we've got a client wareousere of 16,000 squares. So already, we've got about 38,000 squares of the total 150,000 squares of bulk on Phase 1 spoken for. We've also got a 30,000 square inquiry there as well. We're currently also installing the infrastructure on Phases 2, 3 and 4 with hopefully Phases 2 and 3 being reclaimed later on this financial year. So essentially, we're going to have roughly about 400,000 squares proclaimed with services at the back end of next year, which is essentially all the land north of the K60. The K60 is a provincial road. They are busy site establishing as we speak and contract commencement there is expected 15 Jan next year. So that is obviously very, very exciting. And we're currently in the ground on unlocking the extension of Sim and the fourth entrance to the city, which we're expecting completion at the back end of next year. So Lawrence team really, really busy. I think it's really going to change waterfall with the amount of infrastructure that we're currently installing. We've shown this image a few times, but I think it's really, really exciting just to touch on it again. So as I mentioned, we're currently building Gateway East, which we're expecting completion in October next year. We are hoping to go get Aspire approved early next year at IC. You'll see there the Turquoise box next to PwC is the hotel and conference. And we also got the City Lodge expansion next to Deloitte approved as well. So within the next 4 to 5 months, essentially, we're going to have 45,000 squares going up within the city, which really is an amazing number. If you add Phase 3 into that, that's almost 60,000 squares of bulk that we're going to be complete within the next 12 months. So really, really exciting. The focus going forward after that is obviously moving from West to East. So there's been quite a focus on doing that. We want to complete the West, and we've got a really exciting project we're looking to attach to the mall and then obviously to basically integrate with Aspire. So this is a graphical image of the proposed Waterfall City Hotel. So just some high-level numbers on this. Total CapEx is ZAR 520 million of which were 75% shareholder of -- why is it attached to the mall? Well, essentially, that's where we've got 20,000 squares of hotel rights currently available. And obviously, you piggyback off the park indicater for the conference. So it's a 171-room hotel, which is roughly about 8,000 squares and then you're going to have an 8,000 conference, which is made up of a restaurant as well as various meeting rooms and then the large conference walls. Why did we choose that site on the Mall of Africa? Well, that Lisbon Road is a private road, which essentially allows us to create Port, which is obviously very important for hotel. And then it also allows us to create a new entrance within the Mall of Africa on Level 1 to create an exclusive entrance for the hotel. So we're currently in detailed planning, finalizing the agreements. We are hoping to be in the ground roughly in March or April. So within interims, I should be able to give you a bit more detail. And what's also nice about this development, it is a lease. So this is not a management contract transaction. And this is essentially a new retail offering, street retail offering within the city. So those of you that would have walked Waterfall City, you would know that currently where the Mall of Africa is built, you've got 2 taxi ranks, one on the West and one in the East. We made the decision about 6 months ago to move that under the park with access of Simlac. I think for 2 reasons, one from an operational point of view and the second one from an aesthetic point of view. So that creates us an opportunity to leverage off the Mall of Africa infrastructure to create some street retail. So we put the scheme together and it is on the corner of the mall, which is opposite Aspire. So with Aspire ground retail and this, it starts creating a little node. And what the old taxi provides us is the ability to provide secure or street parking. So accessibility is really easy, and Mike's team is really sent an offer on this space.

This is my last presentation that I'll be presenting at. I'm going to dial into all future presentations with [indiscernible] questions for investors. Just a single slide on our interest-bearing borrowings, not a significant change from our year-end results. As you can see, our roll-off profile still relatively insignificant for the next 12 months. No material debt falling off over the next 12 months, and that's due to the team refinancing a significant portion of all of our debt just before year-end. Where the opportunity lies is those 2 gray bars that represent our hedging maturity, ZAR 384 million coming up in the next 12 months and then just under ZAR 2.4 billion in the 12 months thereafter. What we have seen is the swap curve reduced significantly, almost 25 basis points of late. All of our hedges done post balance sheet date of FY '25 have been almost 20 basis points lower than expiring swaps. So really, I think a great time to be hedging the portfolio and see significant of savings coming through in the next 12 to 24 months. If you look at our funding mix hasn't changed at all since year-end. And as communicated in terms of our strategy, the DMTN program a focus for us going forward, and we're looking to increase that 11% over the medium term to somewhere between 20% and 25%. Our gross interest-bearing debt increasing marginally by about ZAR 140 million since year-end hasn't really moved the dial. We haven't included in our LTV or interest cover ratios simply because we haven't fair value the portfolio since year-end. But we last reported that to be 25.3% and 2.95x in terms of gearing and interest cover. We don't see that significantly changing by year-end. Our weighted average loan term are very healthy at 3.6 years. And you can see our hedge percentage some roll off, maintaining a steady rate of about 85% to 86%. And as we see more value, that might increase to maybe over 90%, but that will come over time. weighted average term hedges at 2.5 years. We're seeing a lot more value in the 5-year hedging or 5-year swap curve rather. So we've historically focused on hedges really there's an opportunity to do some 5-year hedges given that swap curve has come off quite a bit. Our weighted average cost of debt reducing by 30 basis points and again, largely driven by swaps coming in a lot cheaper. If you look at the progress to date, GCR confirming or reaffirming rather our A+ rating, and that was finalized, I think, in the month of October. I talked about our hedges and the cost thereof reducing by 10 basis points, a very healthy liquidity position of ZAR 1.3 billion and confirming that all our covenants measured at year-end date were all compliant, and we're expecting the covenants to be compliant as well. focus for the remaining financial year, proactively managing our interest rate hedges and the rest of the hedging of the book. And then we are targeting TMT issuance in the first quarter of the 2026 calendar year and looking to take advantage of what is really attractive rates and shifting our weighting from banking towards our DMTN program.

Now start questions and answers. I've got the first question from Nazeem. Nazeem would like to know whether [indiscernible] investors and analysts can get them too. Nazeem, you can have one. It's been able to change your recommendation and your tax stock to another buyer.

[indiscernible].

So the same operator will be for the hotel and conference. We're not taking operational risk on that. We're purely doing it from a property perspective. And the operator and the JV partner are essentially the same company, but 2 entities within the same holding company, but we are not directly taking operational risk on the conference.

Yes. Basically [indiscernible].

Correct. Yes.

All right. We've got a question from [indiscernible].. You mentioned that the NPI growth was in line with budget. Can you disclose the budget growth rate given some color on the in-force NPI growth.

Yes I think we quoted the guidance number on your first slide, Jackie. Effectively that guidance number is 2 things. From an income generating portfolio, we need to achieve our budget to make that guidance. We're on track to do that. And on the other side is, of course, Raj and his management of our debt. So I think confirming that our guidance is still within range means that we're on track with our budget on the income-generating portfolio.

Then another question from [indiscernible]. Can you discuss the leasing activities in the office portfolio? What are the occupancy prospects looking like in the light of the increase in the [indiscernible].

Yes. So we're doing fantastically well both in Pretoria and in the core of the CBD in Waterfall City. So once again, we've got a prospect out on Brooklyn Bridge in Pretoria. We already know that the Bridge office precinct is fully let. That could mean that Brooklyn Bridge potentially also has a significant chunk of its GLA [indiscernible], which will be very positive. And then in Waterfall City with products like the new English building, we saw that being up almost before it was completed. Of course, the occupation dates staggered beyond the completion date. And that means that the only sticky vacancy really for us would sit in the Waterfall View building or what we call now the Waterfall Circle building. And there has been a bit of a persistent vacancy. But once again, our teams have been involved in 2 tenders or request for proposals on that space, also some direct broking activity happening there. And once again, it's just a case of landing one of those 00quetalsircle building. But if I look at the core offering in Pretoria and the CB City, strong.

I'm going to look at Pete, another -- this is the last question from. Can you discuss the impact of completing developments on distributable income, especially the initial NPI to capital such that there is expected to be an uplift on completion of developments.

I can also [indiscernible] you look at our sort of incremental cost of debt that is closer to about 8.5% when you look at where swap rates are and 3-year funding rates are for the group. Can we achieve better development yields than that? I think we're at least on par on our first deals at about 8.5% of the deals where the tenant alluded to in terms of confidence in our facilities, we think we will at least achieve in our marginal cost of debt. Obviously, then the escalation from there in year 2 takes us above that and we then see a positive impact on our distributable income.

Then, I know you touched on the cost-to-income ratio. But is expected for an improvement year-on-year? Or is the best case we can expect flat result?

Yes. I think our expectation is improvement. It's subject to 2 things. Once again, we indicated on one of my slides, the increased in free energy being generated in the portfolio certainly that is going to contribute to positive impact on the [indiscernible]. We have got the [indiscernible]. As we discussed earlier [indiscernible]. We can fill vacant builds [indiscernible] landlord. And there must be potential activity for Pretoria as well as for Waterfall City. We are really confident that the net cost income ratio should come down.

And from Nazeem. Any update on the logistics leasing potential for vacancies [indiscernible] property update [indiscernible]. Nazeem, we got a lease [indiscernible] we can accommodate the [indiscernible]. So hopefully we get the lease concluded on the [indiscernible] warehouse. And it was suite warehouse, we've got cooperative for suites so that's not difficult and help you with one of the properties for suite, we can conclude a deal. Then from Trinity, the recent 25 bps rate cut will only have a positive impact starting in March 2026 due to the JIBAR reset. How much uplift will this rate cut generate in FY 2026?

Yes, no significant uplift simply because JA moved in anticipation of rate cuts. So the actual movement in JB has only been 12 basis points on the back of the actual rate cut decision. There was the curve already -- the forward rate was already taking into account some probability of the rate cut. So that's 12 basis points. Only 15% of our debt is floating. And as you've mentioned, the interest reset date will only impact sort of 3 to 6 months of the financial year. So I don't think the rate cut itself will have a major impact on However, as these existing swaps roll off and we restart that with new swaps at 20 to 25 basis points lower, that will also contribute to the overall impact. So I think the bigger impact is for FY '26, but certainly a tailwind for -- sorry, FY '27 tailwind for FY '26.

Foot count is up 1.5%. How much of this came from Mall of Africa, Mike?

All of Africa, of course, being the bulk of our foot count. So Mall of Africa turning around that number, the average number. I can add more context that Mall, we see an increase above that number. But I think for Mall, we've seen a decline below that number. So Mall of Africa around the average we quoting above that, below that just from a portfolio perspective.

And another [indiscernible] question, right. The Waterfall shopping center is recently opened. So I just [indiscernible] on the floor, the shopping center -- convenient shopping center [indiscernible]. So you are in waterfall, cluster Waterfall and Walmart is set to open soon at [indiscernible] Mall. Do you foresee these threats?

Yes. So I think the densification around us is certainly positive, but it also means more competition. The biggest thing that we are watching from a mushroom Farm perspective is that Checkers opened another hyper there. There was going to be something else in that space, but effectively Checkers to take up that space. And I think for Africa, having a Check as well, those are close to each other. We'll have to see how that plays out. But once again, I think we are in conversation with the Shoprite Checkers group. Just to track the [indiscernible] on how that the trade would be affected. But our team visited the [indiscernible] and reach out with the Group and regarding. So we're all aware of what's happening there. I think it's definitely something that we have to be watchful of. But important to also say that we have our own strategy, not to be of what else happens. But our strategy is not to be reactive in some, but executing on what we believe is good for retail and the retail experience, and we will continue to do so.

And maybe just last question, are we in discussion with Walmart regarding space where I think the biggest [indiscernible] to convert against the Walmart.

Yes. So I can confirm that we are under NDA and that in effect means that, yes, we have engaged the Walmart. You've made a couple of proposals. So I can confirm that, yes, we are in discussions.

[indiscernible].

It's on the existing leases that we have in our portfolio.

There more questions I was planning on -- any discussion on [indiscernible] for 12 years. Certainly, Raj leaves on a company that's in such a good financial health. So -- and Raj has not helped us build this incredible business, but also has helped build incredible team. So his financial team is such a strong team, the debt team, the integrated report just a report on that, the risk team. So Raj leaves really in good stead with team with great teams. So the show will go on. Raj leaves in the end of January. We will -- we have met with. So there is a recruitment plan in place. then we will be probably announcing in the next weeks the plan and the interim and then long-term succession planning for Raj. Raj, thank you so much for the years. Thank you for being an excellent colleague for really being proud of the brand. And I'm really looking forward to those thought-provoking questions come close and our next results presentation. But yes, we will be in touch with our shareholders of -- it is a difficult time of the year from a recruitment point of view. Any other questions? Is there anything good? Thank you so much for dialing in this morning. Thank you for the support during this year. I hope you have a meaningful festive season with your family and loved ones, and we're really looking forward to the new year and you have a good time and a restful time. So have a good day. Thank you.