Aeroports de Paris SA (ADP) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good day, and welcome to Group ADP 2023 First Quarter Revenue Conference Call. Today's call is being recorded. [Operator Instructions] At this time, I will now turn the call over to Cecile Combeau. Please go ahead.

Thank you, and good evening. I am Cecile Combeau, Head of Investor Relations at Group ADP. And with me are Philippe Pascal, our CFO; and Christelle Jacquemet, deputy CFO. Philippe will go through some prepared remarks before taking your questions. And in order to allow greater number of you to dialogue with him and Christelle, I would like to ask you, please, to limit your questions to 1 or 2 only per analyst. As a reminder, certain information to be discussed on today's call is forward-looking and is subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially. For these, I refer you to the disclaimer statement included in our press release and on Slide 31 of our presentation. With that, let me hand it over to Philippe.

So thank you, Cecile, and good evening, everyone. So let's jump directly to Slide 2, starting with the highlights. So traffic is developing in line with our assumption, both in Paris and internationals. Recovery rates against 2019 stands under 95.2% for the group. Recovery is 88.7% in Paris, reflecting a negative impact from strikes, which is estimated at 2 points. TAV Airport. For TAV Airport, the concession renewable contract for Ankara was signed on February. The upfront payment of the concession fee will be down in the coming days. Expansion works will start in Q2. For GMR we have initiated a new step last month, as you know, with the launch of a projected merger between GAL, GMR Airport, and our listed partner, GIL, GMR Infrastructure Limited. In line with the announcement made last month, we have subscribed to the EUR 331 million loan, and the scheme has been submitted to the Indian Stock Exchange 2 weeks ago on April. We are progressing well as planned. In terms of performance, we can see for this first Q1, that our performance is good. Our revenue, it's a good start for the group ADP for this year. We have seen solid dynamics in all businesses and focuses on retail. The sales per pax was strong, up EUR 4.3 to reach EUR 30.3. Our total revenue is standing at EUR 1.2 billion in this first quarter, up 40.7% year-on-year. Moving on to Slide 3. The latest Skytrax ranking was the issue on mid-March. For the second year in a row, Paris Charles de Gaulle has been recognized as the best airport in Europe. It ranked as fifth best airport in the world, up from sixth. For other airports of our group are in the top 100, including Paris-Orly and Delhi. These results recognize the commitment of the teams of Group ADP and the entire airport community. We work on a daily basis to guarantee the best quality of service to passengers. Moving to Slide 4, with a focus of our operation in Paris. The graph at left show mostly traffic data in Paris. You can see that the month of March was affected by ATC strikes, mostly at Orly. The flight conserved were mostly domestic and Schengen destination. The underlying trends in terms of recovery remains strong, in line with our traffic resumption for 2023. In this context, we are preparing for a strong profit this summer and continue to move on with the transformation by ensuring the company has the right stuff to succeed in its short-term and long-term challenge. Some of you may have spotted on the media our new corporate film launched in April, aiming at attracting new talents. We will continue to recruit staff in 2023, notably in cyber security, maintenance and also in hospitality position. Slide 5 show overall traffic evolution, which is fully in line with our assumptions, starting with the comments about traffic in our international asset. We see clearly very strong dynamic with traffic almost fully recovered against 2019 to 99.7%. So globally, a full recovery. In Paris, we welcomed 21 million passengers this quarter, up 44.6% against Q1 in 2022. This recovery of 88.7% versus 2019, excluding the effect of strike, we estimate that recovery would be around 90.7% in Paris, illustrating the strong underlying trend that I just commented. Continue to focus on Paris on Slide 6. Traffic with Mainland France show a lower recovery to 73% of 2019, mainly reflecting the impact of strike this quarter, but also the closure of several domestic routes compared to before COVID. International traffic stood at 91.3% of 2019. As you know, it's the most accretive traffic, both for regulated and nonregulated revenue. Recovery of traffic with North America is progressing well, reaching now full recovery versus 2019, with the U.S. and even above recovery for Canada this quarter. Traffic with Asia Pacific is gradually recovering as expected. And a slower pace, especially with China, which has reopened at end of 2022. Traffic with China reached 10% of 2019 traffic. Low-cost traffic continued to represent a higher portion of our traffic, around 27%, 26% of Paris compared to 21% before COVID. With that in mind, we can go directly to Slide 7 with a focus on Extime Paris sales per pax. Performance has been particularly strong with quarter with an outstanding sales per pax of EUR 30.3. That is very strong. This reflects a combination of structural and contractual effects. The main effect are structural, including the unfolding of Extime especially with Terminal 1 reopening since December, but also continued growth in beauty and luxury spending driven by the quality of our offering. And obviously, the improvement of traffic mix with a stronger international traffic recovery as expected. But we have also conjunctural effect included inflation, which kicking last year in Q2. And foreign exchange, as commented previously. And the one-off impact from strike that is very important to have in mind that led domestic flight cancellation. Without domestic traffic, we have mechanically good performance, strong performance in our model. Going forward, we continue to deploy the Extime in all terminal in Paris, in Terminal 2E Hall K. This included some staging and upgrade in our offering, implying some works that started last week. Food terminal will not be closed, we expect the transformation to put pressure on SPP for this year and the following years. Accordingly, we confirm our target of SPP of EUR 29.5 by 2025. Moving on to Slide 8, with a focus on our 2 main international assets. As a reminder, TAV numbers are fully consolidated in our account and GMR airport are equity accounted. As you can see on the left side of the slide, JV overall recovery stands at 94.7% of 2019 level. Chile's international assets performed very well, and part of them are reached full recovery, especially Almaty, standing at 155% of 2019 traffic levels. TAV Airport in Turkey are experiencing a slower recovery on their domestic traffic. This is offset by international traffic already above 2019 traffic levels. On the right side of the slide, we can see GMR Airport traffic stand at 104% recovery. In Indian airport, strong recovery continues to be driven by domestic traffic standing at 108% of 2019 levels. International traffic is now getting close to full recovery, about 94% against 2019. Goa Airport opened on January '23 and welcomed close to 0.7 million passenger quarter 1. Moving on to Slide 9, revenue reached EUR 1.2 billion in Q1, up 40.7% versus last year, which was still affected by restrictions linked to COVID. Driven by the traffic recovery in Paris, Aviation segment is up 33.4% year-on-year. The Retail & Services segment is up 42.3% versus 22 helped by the strong sales per packs in addition to traffic. The Real Estate segment is up 9.6% versus Q1 '22 driven by additional lines from assets taken over in full ownership in 2022. Overall, the TAV Airport's performance has been strong, driven by both in airport asset and its service companies. Worth noting, Almaty Airport in Kazakhstan grew 11%, driven by the strong traffic recovery, as mentioned earlier. To conclude, let's move to Slide 11. Our traffic assumption and financial guidance for 23 are unchanged. We continue to expect traffic in Paris, up to 93% of 2019 and for the group between 95% to 105% on the traffic of 2019 traffic. For EBITDA guidance, we expect between 32% and 37% of revenue. And dividend stable policy with a 60% payout ratio on the dividend with a floor of EUR 3 per share. And in terms of CapEx, we confirm our CapEx at a group level on an average of EUR 1.3 billion per year between '23 and '25. And for ADP company, ADP FA, an average of EUR 900 million. All our over '23, '25 guidance are maintained, included deleveraging with net debt expected between 3.5x and 4.5x EBITDA by 2025. And with that, let's open the line for the Q&A. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] We will take our first question from Cristian Nedelcu from UBS.

Two of them, if possible, please. The first 1 if I understood well, the closure of the Terminal 2E Hall K, I think you said it will start to become a headwind to your spend per passenger from Q2 this year, if I understood well. Could you help us quantify a bit how much of the terminal is closed, what type of headwinds? From memory, it was 1 of the terminals that was a strong performer in terms of spend per pax. So any more color that you could give us there? And the second question, I mean, I was saying China is only 10% recovered to '19 levels in terms of traffic. How should we think at the sort of the full recovery and the help that you could give to the spend per passenger? What are you seeing today in terms of spend per passenger from a tourists from China versus '19 level? Is it double what it used to be more or less? Can you give us any indication?

So thank you for your questions. So first question about the works in Terminal 2E Hall K. So just one thing that is very important, we don't close the retail area, and we just refurbished part of this area, but we have with a slight impact in our sales CapEx. So for the moment, we have a good performance. We know that we have to transform our enlarged the Extime duty-free areas to integrate the first [landing] of Terminal 1 especially to implement some new flagship for luxury brands. So we are just to improve the capacity and the performance of this Terminal 2E Hall K or to reach the same level and performance to confirm the fact that it's our flagship. So with this work, we can have an impact that is not really a huge impact for the next few years. But just our key message is the fact that you can have -- you can, in our model, put EUR 30.3 all in all for the full year due to the fact that we have upside but we have also downside. And in this downside, we have a flattish effect in this terminal due to the current works. But we have also structural improvement for all our terminals included the Terminal 2E Hall K. You have a new Terminal 1. We have with a good performance in beauty and luxury. We have a structural improvement in traffic mix. with a stronger recovery of international traffic. And we have also a good dynamic globally in the retail area. Just our key message for the next few months, it's to -- just to assume our guidance of EUR 29.5 in 2025 due to the fact you have -- that we have a conjunctural effect. That is inflation, strikes, that is also [indiscernible]. That is also part of works in Terminal 2E. That we have -- that is not -- that is conjunctural and not structural. And you have upside like the implementation of Extime cost strategy like the recovery of Chinese traffic. For your second question about the Chinese traffic, we can see that globally, for the moment, we expect a progressive recovery in the traffic, progressive return of traffic with China along 2022. More in the second half of this year, we have, for the moment, a strong discussion between the French and the Chinese government. That is a bilateral national agreement with a principle of reciprocity. So we have to wait the conclusion of this negotiation. For the moment, we have only 5 airlines for just 4 routes. That is not so huge compared to before the COVID crisis with now 10 flights a week compared to more than 110 flights per week in 2019. So we have a very slight recovery -- so we are optimistic to reopen progressively this traffic. That is, in fact, an upside for our SPP. What is the level of the upside? It's difficult, it depends on the trajectory and the recovery -- but just globally, what we can say is the fact that for Chinese destination. So with Chinese people, but also with French people to go to China is around EUR 150 per pax. That is a good performance and probably a good performance to restore 150. It was the performance before the crisis without the extreme effect, without the improvement of our retail area. So it's difficult to give you figures for the [indiscernible]

We will take our next question from Elodie Rall from JPMorgan.

Yes. First of all, could I ask a question on the retail spend per pax at EUR 30 in Q1? I think it's already higher than your long-term or midterm guidance for '25. So how do you see that evolving through the next quarters? My second question is on the evolution of OpEx. I know you only reported revenues, but it would be helpful if you could give us a little bit of indication of the trajectory of OpEx in particular with regard to wages. And also, if you could give us some indication on whether you have made some progress with regard to your hedging strategy. You had said you were working on hedging for '24. So if you have an update there, that would be helpful.

So thank you for your questions. So first question about SPP. So as I said, we have a good -- an excellent start in 2023 reflecting the combination effect between a structural effect and conjunctural effect. For the structural effect, we have obviously the improvement of our offering but also the improvement in traffic mix. So a good performance linked by our new strategy, including Terminal 1. For conjunctural effect, we have inflation, we have strikes, we have the [indiscernible]. And we have the impact in Terminal 2E Hall K, with specific works to improve to transform enlarge our Extime duty-free areas. So globally, it's not possible to modernize the same effect when you compare the first quarter with the over quarter of this year. Obviously, we assume a good trend and an increase in the sales per pax, but not so strong compared to the first quarter. That is very clear for us. Remember that the flat cancellation in the first quarter linked to the strike. Globally for 80% domestic flight and Schengen flight. So with this -- that is the list contributive passenger both in terms of aeronautical fees, but also in terms of SPP. So the seasonality of SPP it's strong when you can see in our last publication, we can see that we disclosed the seasonality. And the strike for the SPP is favorable because mechanically, we have more international traffic than we have domestic traffic due to the fact that the combination, it's domestic traffic. For the second question about OpEx, Christelle, if you want to give...

Yes, to give some context. So first of all, as you know, we highlighted the fact that in 2022, we were quite well protected and our OpEx globally speak on inflation, we were well protected because of our purchasing policy. We are currently having a strategy in which we have perennial contracts. So we feel the impact of inflation. At each time, we are renewing some contracts. And you know around 40% of our contracts will be renewed between 2023 and 2024. So we will feel some impact about that, first of all. Second element regarding your question on energy, indeed, we were also quite well protected in 2022 and we will be quite well protected also in 2023 because we have a hedging which will last until the end of 2023. For the month, we are indeed working on our new hedging strategy, but we will be waiting for the summer to start the new hedging strategy. We are indeed waiting for electricity prices in France to reflect the greater availability and prices are expected to be more favorable than they are currently. So that's why we are, for the moment, waiting. Our objective will be to have fully covered our 2024 power needs as well maybe as a portion of 2025 needs. -- keep in mind on energy that there are 2 elements who could help us from a financial point of view. First of all, we contracted some recently. And we have -- it enabled us to have interesting prices. It represents around 10% of today's annual need of our provision platform. Two solar farms are already commissioned and a new one will be in the months to. This is the first protection. And secondly, for the moment, we were not benefiting from the strategy, but we could have record this pose in the future. Regarding OpEx, maybe also a word on our staff costs. We also explained that there will be more pressure looking going forward on our staff cost. First of all, because in 2022, all our departures were made at the beginning of the year, whereas the recruitment were made gradually in 2022, and we will feel the full impact of this structure plan 2023. At the same time, we also have a recruitment plan for 2023, quite similar to the one made in 2022. Indeed, there is an acceleration for -- to fill some position, especially in terms of cybersecurity, maintenance, hospitality and quality of service. So we will continue our stent strategy. On top of those recruitment, there would be also the effect of the wages increase. As you know, we took several measures in mid-June 2022 to have a first step of salary increase. And then we also had new measure beginning 2023. In total, when you compare 2023 staff cost forecast to 2022. It will be an additional cost of EUR 30 million. On top of that, there will be also -- we will also expand the impact of natural inflation of wages. And maybe you have additional points important to have in mind. Keep in mind that in 2022, the staff costs also included a EUR 20 million provision reversal. So that was a positive impact that won't be in 2023 results. So -- all in all, there will be a little bit more pressure on our OpEx. But all of those elements are reflected in our guidance of EUR 70 to EUR 20 OpEx per pax at ATPS level.

We'll take our next question from Sathish Sivakumar from Citibank.

I got 2 questions. So firstly, on the real estate, can you like give us some color on what has been the vacancy rate in Q1? How does it compare versus Q4? And in terms of the indexation impact, how should we consider going into second quarter? So that's the first question on the retail real estate. And the second one is on the retail and services. Even there, you actually had a very strong performance versus last year, if I exclude the passenger impact that's on a unit tax basis, you are up around 22%. So again, what's driving that? And how should we think about that going into the rest of the year? Would you normalize similar to what you said on the Extime normalization of around EUR 31 per pax?

So thank you. Just for the first question about real estate, so in fact, we have a mechanic increase due to the index but it's not index like inflation. It's a specific index that is not so dynamic. So it's a very slight a slight increase. But the main explanation of the current performance and the increase of the real estate segment up 9.6% is due by the additional rents from asset taken over in full ownership last year. So mechanically, it's okay year after year. We recovered the ownership of the building of [indiscernible] and so on. And mechanically, we have a good effect in our revenue and in our EBITDA also and a good dynamic of the real estate segment. For your second question, can you repeat? We don't understand clearly what is your main point, please about...

So on the retail and services, right, the other line element on the retail spend, like other shops and bars and restaurants, obviously, that's seen as like even significant unit performance. What is actually driving that? Is it mainly coming from other shops? Or is it mainly food and beverage-related rerating there?

So we have 2 main points. First, for the food and beverage, in fact, last year, we have a COVID effect. So now this year, we have a good recovery about that. And the second point is the structural dynamic in terms of shops due to the strong improvement in our strategy with luxury amount. So there are some closure last year that we reopened now, but it's a mechanic recovery linked by the recovery of the traffic.

We will take our next question from Dario Maglione from BNB Paribas.

Two questions. One, how much retail square meters in site you have open in Q1 this year? And how does this compare year, and how does this compare to Q1 2019? And second question on business traffic, which was around 30% of traffic in 2019, how much has this recovered if you had the data?

So thank you for your question. So in terms of retail, as you know, a square meter, it's now globally stable. We have just reopened some shots linked by the reopening of the terminal. But in the first quarter, we don't reopen new terminals. We'll open in December. So square meter, it's not the main driver. The main driver now, it's the quality of offering the luxury bonds. That means traffic, but not the square meter. So globally, in Q1 compare Q1 '23 compared to Q1 '22. We're just to take the reopening of our infrastructure. Globally, it's a huge part of the infrastructure like Terminal 1 but also Terminal 2B and 2D. So for the moment, we opened Terminal 1, but we closed the Terminal 2E and 2C. So all in all, we have a need in terms of square meter, but not so huge. It's not for us a good explanation about that. In terms of business traffic. So just to remember that it's a key element for airlines, but not really for airport. For us, the main driver in terms of value creation is a destination, more international traffic, Schengen or domestic traffic and in the international traffic. More in Asia, in Africa, in U.S. compared to the other traffic. So it's a question of destination. It's not a question of economic class or business class. But for our clients, the airlines, it's important because if you have a strong business class, we can have a good profitability of the line, the destination, not flight. So for us, globally, we can see furtherment, a strong recovery in the business class, first of all. Second point, we expect that it's not sensitive in our model. We expect a slight decrease, but business class, it's now not just for businessman. It's for woman. But it's more family and leisure class for people that have enough contributive effect. So globally, it's not sensitive in our model.

We will take our next question from Graham Hunt from Jefferies.

Just a couple of questions from me. The first one, just on your -- actually, just on your lounges, -- just wondering how you're seeing performance trending there. And if there's anything you can say on your expectations going into the summer season for the lounges under the Extime brand. And then second question, again, on Extime, I don't know if it's a little bit early to ask, but is there anything you can say around digital engagement that you're seeing there with travelers? Anything that you can shed some color on would be helpful.

So it's your first question about the performance and the expectation in terms of launch. So for the moment, we try to implement our Extime strategy through the opening of new launch bound by Extime -- in fact, we can -- we have 2 kind of launch the premium launch and -- but also, we try to have an exclusive strategy for the VVIP. For the moment launch, it's part of Extime SPP. We have a good performance, but we don't disclose exactly what is the performance of the lounges. So for the month, it's a little bit early to know exactly what is the trajectory and what is the expectation for that. We deployed our strategy. For the digitalization and the digital engagement, we have time rewards with a very, very high dynamic. We can see that a part of our sales per pax other is linked by a specific passenger with the loyalty program through Extime. So it's a very huge part. So it's a very -- for us, it's a proof that the Extime rewards strategy is probably a good driver to increase our value creation. But for the moment, it's -- we don't disclose exactly what is the performance of this specific strategy. It's a little bit early for the moment. So thank you for this interesting question.

We will take our next question from Achal Kumar from HSBC.

First of all, I wanted to understand about Extime. So basically, you have reported a very strong growth. And you mentioned that this is driven by the long haul traffic. But within long-haul traffic, not sure if you can give us a bit more color about who is driving Extime? Is it the Americans, the Asians? I mean who is driving this significant growth in Extime? That will be more helpful. Secondly, about Asia, so the Asia traffic recovery has lagged all the other regions. So now 2 things actually. So what is the kind of recovery are you building in on Asia in your guidance for 2023? I mean, I could see that the Chinese -- the Asian carriers are growing far rapidly as compared to Europeans. So do you think that could actually help your retail spend per pax since Asian carriers sensation passengers be Chinese, Japanese. They they do a lot more shopping than anybody else. So what kind of upside do you see from Asian traffic going in that. And finally, in terms of going back to your OpEx, so I guess, would you mind giving us a bit of a color in terms of what kind of impact do you expect from inflation. I understand that you had increased -- you had agreed a 3% wage increase, if I'm not wrong, but that seems far too low as compared to where inflation is. So do you see any further pressure on that? Thank you so much.

So thank you for your questions. So your first question about the Extime effect. So with a specific destination, in fact, we have a strong performance with international destination, especially with the U.S. That is very dynamic U.S. It's a key destination for Air France, a huge part of the profitability of Air France is linked by U.S. destination. And when you see our figures, we don't disclose exactly as SPP, sorry for that. But we can see that we have a good dynamic for U.S. but also for globally, all the international destination included Asian traffic despite the fact that we don't have a full recovery of the traffic. So our strategy is to improve our the quality of our experience for all the passenger included international passenger. But we have also an Extime strategy for the lifestyle terminal like the terminal with domestic Schengen traffic, but also terminal with the both kind of traffic, international and domestic. For your second question about the recovery of GMR traffic, it's difficult to say now we are still in negotiation, France negotiate with Chinese government. In our model, we put a slight recovery in the first half and an acceleration in the second half of this year. but not a full recovery. For us, a full recovery is in 2025. For the moment, we can secure part of new flights. For the moment, we have 20 flights each week. Probably we can increase at 30, 34 flight in June, that is globally in our scope. For the rest of the recovery, it's for us, it's just an upside, but we don't take in our -- we don't take account in our model. For your third question, Christelle?

Yes. to give, again, a little bit color on inflation and when you modelize OpEx. So as I was mentioning previously, first of all, you have to take into account the energy impact linked to the renewal of our hedging strategy, but only beginning in 2024. There will be also impact at on OpEx linked to the increase in traffic. So some of our OpEx will naturally grow with traffic, but you have to have in mind that most of our OpEx are linked to the opening of infrastructure and not only to traffic. And indeed, the impact of inflation that will be faced at each time, we are renewing some contracts. And as I was mentioning, around 10% of contracts at ADP level, I mean, our index on inflation. And around 15% of contracts are to be renewed in 2023. And when you also include 2024, it's around 40% of our contracts that will be renewed. So for instance, if you take 6% of inflation, we expect around a little bit around EUR 20 million impact in 2023. Regarding wages and salary, there will be, as I was mentioning, the material inflation of relief. The impact of the salary increase negotiated both mid-July 2022 and beginning of 2023. And indeed, it's an impact of EUR 30 million compared to 2022. Maybe a word also regarding inflation because I was speaking only about ADP, but you have also to have in mind TV which is suffering from inflation and which is also an important plan of recruitment -- so you also have to take this into account when you modernize the evolution of OpEx at the group level -- and at the end of the day, only at ADP level, you have the guidance of EUR 17 million to EUR 20 million to modernize the impact.

We will take our next question from Nicolas Mora from Morgan Stanley.

Just a couple of questions for me. First one on -- coming back on the Extime spend per pax. If we take in the first quarter and are a little bit more cautious for the rest of the year as you hinted to, is there any reason why you wouldn't get very, very close to EUR 30 per pax of spending? That's the first question. And number two, number two has to do with revenues, but you've also -- so you've reconfirmed what you had in the annual report on the regulated profit for 2022 and the returns. Do you expect to give us a little bit more granularity on that 360 [indiscernible] EBIT from the regulated business? To me, it looks very high. From here or so, what's the tone of the discussion for tariffs with the regulator looking at 2024? Considering the what was a good performance in '22 and where it should improve again in '23. That should be it.

So thank you, Nicolas. So for your first question, difficult to say more things than compared to the previous answer because we -- in fact, we have conduct structural effect. In fact, we are cautious. In fact, we know that for the moment, the dynamic, it's globally good. But we prefer to confirm our guidance for '25 with EUR 29.5. And we just give you some color about the structural and the conceptual effect. In fact, difficult to know exactly what is the consumption effect. If we have more inflation. If we have a more favorable exchange rate, if we have a huge or not impact or not a bad impact linked by other element like macroeconomic element or political element. So -- it's furtherment -- we just started the year. It's a little bit early to change and to change our guidance. We don't know exactly what is the full effect. We have just a performance for 3 months. That is not a key period for EDP when you see the seasonality. At the beginning of the year, it's not a representative for the full year. For your second question, in fact, we have a strong regulated ROCE for '22 for 4.8% for '22. That is a very good and strong recovery. In fact, we expect in the next year, some negative impact due to the increase of our regulated OpEx. We expect also, linked by our moderation in terms of regulated CapEx, a favorable impact, so in the regulated ROCE So all in all, we try to manage the French regulator to slightly increase our regulated ROCE to reach trhe level of regulated WACC. It's difficult to know if it's 24, it's 25. It depends on the level of the regulated WACC fixed by the French regulator. We know that for the moment, we can have a favorable element in terms of regulated WACC due to the fact that it's the calculation. It's an average in terms of in the -- with the 5 years backward. So we -- the regulated WACC should embark progressively the current market condition, therefore, increasingly, progressively the level of solid WACC. But we don't have a strong visibility for the moment. So but all in all, we have a share of the regulated ROCE for the next few years due to the OpEx increase, due to the management of CapEx.

We will take our next question from Marcin Wojtal from Bank of America.

I've got just 1 question on airport capacity, in particular, at Paris Orly. Traffic in some months is already above pre COVID. Can you just remind us if there is still some spare capacity? Can traffic at only grow well above pre-COVID? And maybe the same question for Charles de Gaulle, if you could remind us how many millions of passengers could you have theoretically at Charles de Gaulle, that would be very helpful.

So thank you for your question. So it's difficult to compare the full capacity of Orly, with the COVID situation. In 2019, normally we close for a few months the runway that we have a strong impact in our performance in terms of traffic. So globally, now after COVID, with the full capacity of the airport, we can mechanically have welcomed more passengers than before COVID in Orly mechanically. We have a strong infrastructure, we have a slight impact. But globally, we know that we can reach in Orly 30, 33 million passenger without enough problem. Probably more, but it's difficult to know now. In CDG, globally the same situation in CDG in 2019. We don't have the junction between Terminal 2B and 2D. We have the 2B was closed for refurbishment. We have part of this international satellite in Terminal 1 closed to build the new junction when we opened at the end of '22. So globally, we have more capacity in CDG now than before COVID. And we can welcome without trouble more than 80 million passenger. We don't have complaints in terms of runway. We have foreign parallel runway. That is very strong. We can globally double the traffic with the runway. We have just to manage as the passenger. And all in all, perhaps just to conclude, the fact that when you see our figures now, we can see that the load factor is not so huge. We can increase our load factor. That is good for the airline because we optimize the level of the number of passengers for each flight. And mechanically, we optimize the revenue of the airlines, but it's also good for the airport. -- due to the fact that with the same infrastructure, we can welcome more passenger. And mechanically, we can have more aeronautical fees and more retail fee. So globally, we don't have contained for the moment in terms of capacity in Orly but also in CG. It's not the case for the -- it's a case now probably for '22, '23, '32, and 2033. We have to build new infrastructure in Orly or in CDG to continue the story.

There are no further questions on the line. Please proceed.

Okay. So now it's the time to close the presentation. Thank you, everyone, for having logged on to this conference. Our next financial communication will be on the 27th of July with the H1 results disclosure. And in the meantime, we will attend some conferences, and we'll seek to meet you in a road show. So we are, of course, very much looking forward to seeing you in all the coming days and weeks. And obviously, feel free to get in touch with Eliot or myself for any follow-up questions. And with that, have a good evening. Bye.

Thank you for joining today's conference. You may now disconnect.