Avacta Group Plc (AVCT) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Okay. So 650 of you are watching. We've got all you lot here on WebinarJam, and hello to our viewers who are watching the presentations being livestreamed on our YouTube channel. And if you want more information, you can go to the proactiveinvestors.co.uk website where you can read the deep dives and look at the multimedia videos. Okay. Finally, and you can see him there, Mr. Smith. AIM-listed Avacta Group has a market cap of GBP 316 million. The biotech is the developer of antibody-like proteins called affimers. In January, revenues and cash were ahead of forecast and Avacta reconfirmed plans to take its first drug into the clinic this year. Then there was the coronavirus. Well, to find out about the company's COVID-19 antigen test development programs and more, we are joined by the Chief Executive, Alastair Smith.

Thanks very much, Sarah. Good evening, everyone. I'm very aware that we have quite a number of new shareholders recently. So I'm going to go through a couple of introductory slides just to set the scene. So we have 2 divisions in the group: a Therapeutics division and a Diagnostics division, as Sarah said. And the Therapeutics division is based in Cambridge, U.K. We have a focus on immuno-oncology, and we're using the 2 platform technologies that we have, the Affimer platform, the antibody mimetic and the pre|CISION platform, which is a targeted chemotherapy platform to deliver a pipeline of immuno-oncology and oncology therapies for ourselves and for our partners. There won't be a lot of time today to go through our partnerships, but just to mention them very briefly. We've been working with Moderna for a number of years; ADC Therapeutics, and they own a quite recent new partnerships; and LG Chem is a multi-target deal in inflammatory and autoimmune disease that we established about 15 months ago. So the Diagnostics division, which is developing a range, again, of in-house products and with partners based on the Affimer antibody mimetic platform. Most of those partnerships are undisclosed, but the 2, of course, that hit the headlines are Cytiva and Adeptrix because of their involvements in the COVID-19 antigen test development, which we'll go through in some detail in a moment. So it's worth, I think, spending 2 minutes just introducing or reintroducing the 2 technologies to you. So these are platform technologies, as I described. The Affimer platform is an antibody mimetic. So this is, to put it in crude terms, is an alternative to antibody. So we can generate binders to targets of interest, whether that be for therapeutic use or for diagnostic use. And antibodies have been around for many years and were the gold standard. But they have certain limitations, and the Affimer platform is a small, very simple protein which translates into straightforward development, low cost of manufacturing, great stability, high solubility and so on, very easily engineered to construct more complex therapeutic and diagnostic structures. Entirely proprietary to Avacta. So we own the platform, and of course, every individual Affimer that's generated can also be protected as foreground IP. One of the interesting commercial aspects of the platform is that it's completely unrelated to antibodies in any way. So where there is quite often a dense network of antibody-based IP, the Affimer platform tends to have freedom to operate, which is an interesting commercial angle for us. The second platform, the pre|CISION platform is, as I said, a targeted form of chemotherapy. I mean we don't have a lot of time to go into it here, unfortunately, but in very simple terms, the pre|CISION platform is a little bit of chemistry which when attached to a chemotherapy, effectively renders that chemotherapy inert until the chemotherapy passes through the tumor where there is an enzyme that is highly upregulated in tumors and in very, very low concentration in healthy tissue. And that enzyme activates the chemotherapy by removing the pre|CISION chemistry. So it is a way of, again, putting it in crude terms, removing the exposure of healthy tissue to the chemotherapy and removing the safety and tolerability issues that most, if not all, chemotherapies suffer from. So that pre|CISION chemistry can be used to generate what we call prodrugs, so safer forms of chemotherapy, or can be combined with the Affimer platform to deliver a very novel form of drug conjugate that's activated in the tumor microenvironment. Okay. So one of the key messages I'd like to get across, and Sarah, of course, mentioned the COVID-19 antigen test, which is tremendously important for the group and has obviously shown a spotlight on the company and the Affimer technology and has completely changed the valuation of the company. But I think it's really important to also understand the substantial value that's been created in the business over the last few years that really provides a basis for long-term sustainable growth in shareholder value. So I'll just spend 2 minutes summarizing that. On the Therapeutics side, then we've mentioned the 2 platform technologies, the Affimer and the pre|CISION platform. The pre|CISION platform, our lead program, which I will talk about later on in the presentation, is what we call AVA6000 or pro-doxorubicin. So we have taken a standard of care chemotherapy, a generic chemotherapy that's been around for years, which has very serious cardiotox side effects. And as you'll see in a moment, the effect of modifying that to produce a pre|CISION form of pro-doxorubicin is to dramatically change the distribution of the active drug and improve that safety profile. Behind doxorubicin, there's a pipeline that, again, I'll introduce you to in a moment of another 7 or 8 potential pre|CISION chemotherapies, the second most developed of those is a proteasome inhibitor called Velcade, which we refer to as 3996. So there's quite a substantial pipeline there, and we'll be in the clinic later this year with AVA6000 and that will allow us to unlock the potential solid Phase I data of AVA6000. It will allow us to really unlock the potential of that pipeline as we'll see in a moment. So I mentioned the novel drug conjugates, which is the combination of the pre|CISION platform and the Affimer platform to deliver an immunotherapy and a chemotherapy in a single drug molecule. And very briefly, the rationale behind that is that what we're seeing in the clinic, and what I've seen for several years, is that it's the combination of chemotherapy to generate a pro inflammatory response in the tumor that attracts the immune system into what I'll refer to as cold tumors. The synergy of that effect with immunotherapy is giving real benefits to patients. And the fact that we can do that in a single molecule as a drug conjugate is novel. We patented that concept of a microenvironment-activated drug conjugate. On the pure Affimer side, we focused our development so far around PD-L1 biospecifics, and I'll talk a little bit more about that later on. More recently, we've focused on our partnered programs, primarily because of a lack of resources until very recently. And as I said, LG Chem, Moderna, ADC Therapeutics combined clinical development milestones of over $500 million and, obviously, future royalties on sales. The only slightly different is a joint venture. It's a joint venture around engineered stem cell therapies which we've demonstrated we can engineer stem cells to manufacture and secrete Affimer immunomodulatory asthma drugs in the tissue. So that is really exciting. There I've used the word exciting, so Sarah, are we counting? A really exciting next generation of stem cell therapies that, unfortunately, not a time to talk about this evening, but on another occasion. So that's the Therapeutics division based in Cambridge. The Diagnostics division based in Yorkshire. We've been focusing for the last 18, 24 months on infectious disease, therapeutic drug monitoring, rapid point-of-care testing. So the work around COVID-19 is it's not a sudden pivot for the group to take advantage of the opportunity. It's something that really is absolutely ideal. And we demonstrated very rapidly that we could generate Affimer reagents against the virus. So the collaboration with Cytiva and Adeptrix around COVID-19 antigen test is what I'll move on to now. Okay. So very briefly, just to give you the sort of the landscape. There are 2 types of tests. One that's referred to as an antibody test or more correctly a serological test, which tells you whether you've had the coronavirus at some point in the past. And the reason it tells you that, that sort of historical information is because it takes a couple of weeks for your body, your immune system to generate antibodies against the virus for those to be detected. So that's useful, but it doesn't indicate whether you have the infection in those first, certainly, week to 10 days, maybe up to 2 weeks, and that clearly is critical and when an individual is most infectious as well. So that, "Have I got coronavirus?" test has been delivered with PCR to date. And what we've been able to do is generate reagents, Affimer reagents that bind to the spike protein on the outside of the virus, allowing us to develop a rapid saliva-based test strip that will give results in minutes as to whether you have the infection right now or not. That's the objective. And we've partnered with Cytiva, formerly known as GE Healthcare Life Sciences, to develop that product. So to give you an update on progress. I haven't talked about the wider development of -- commercial development for those reagents as well. So we've been working with Cytiva for a few weeks now. We -- just to take you back to the original work done by Avacta was to generate quite a large number of Affimer reagents that bind to the spike protein to allow us to detect the virus. Within that cohort of affimers, there's a range of potentially diagnostic affimers. And interestingly, some affimers which actually prevent, they inhibit the interaction of those spike proteins with the human cell receptor that allows the virus to get into cells. So we have the potential there for a therapy as well for COVID-19, which we're obviously working on very closely to find a partner to be able to take that forward quickly. But coming back to the diagnostic. So we've been working with Cytiva for a number of weeks now. We are aiming to develop a saliva-based test. So as opposed to the nasopharyngeal swabs, which you probably maybe have experienced or certainly seen on television. If these tests are going to be used in -- by consumers, by nonprofessionals, then we believe that saliva is the best option for getting good reproducibility with this test. So Cytiva have made a very good progress since receiving the Affimer reagents a couple of weeks ago. We anticipate having prototype devices by the end of June that will have been tested with model systems and will be ready for testing with human samples. So beyond that point of getting that first, it's an important milestone of demonstrating that the test works with real patient samples and then going into a phase of manufacturing a number of batches to allow us to go into clinical validation. And then, of course, regulatory approval to allow us to get a CE Mark product as soon as we possibly can during this summer. So those reagents that we've generated against the coronavirus spike protein can be used in a range of other diagnostic tests as well. And a second collaboration we put in place is with a company called Adeptrix, which is to develop a quite a different type of test. The test strip is designed as a mass screening test that can be obviously mass produced and provide a rapid yes/no results in a few minutes. The collaboration with Adeptrix is to develop a high-end laboratory test based on mass spectrometry, which it doesn't matter too much what a mass spectrometer is, but there is a large installed base of these machines in hospitals all around the world which is currently unused for COVID-19 testing. And with this type of assay, one of those machines could do up to 1,000 samples a day. So it will be a very significant contribution to the COVID-19 testing capacity. So we've already developed a prototype with Adeptrix, and that's been tested using model systems, and now we're moving imminently into testing with patient samples in the U.K. and U.S. before we go through that manufacturing and regulatory process there as well. And as I said earlier on, we are working to get those Affimer reagents into a number of other potential partners, product development pipelines. There's a number of different assay platforms where the Affimer could produce new and novel and useful COVID-19 tests. Okay. So let me just spend a few minutes talking about the pre|CISION prodrugs. The reason I've chosen to talk about this in particular is that we'll be in the clinic at the back end of this year or possibly early next year with the first of these. So let me just talk you through. I mentioned AVA6000, the pro-doxorubicin prodrug earlier on. So what we've done is we've taken a generic chemotherapy, doxorubicin, which has been used for many years for advanced soft tissue sarcoma and breast cancer and a number of other cancers. And as I mentioned, this has a -- this drug is effective, but it has a very serious cardiotox issue, which limits its use to up to 6 cycles per patient. And many patients don't manage 6 cycles due to the cumulative damage to the heart and the risk of heart failure. And yet, this is a $1 billion market for this generic drug. So clearly, an improved safety version of this drug could be an extremely useful drug against sarcoma in particular and other cancers. So if you look at the data on the right, this really shows you the power of the pre|CISION platform. So what you see here is a graph that shows the concentration of the active doxorubicin drug in the heart and in the tumor. So this is a xenograft model in mice. And on the left-hand side, those are animals dosed with normal doxorubicin at 2 milligrams per kilogram, which is the maximum dose you can give to the animal. And what you see is what you would expect, which is the same amount of doxorubicin in the heart, as you see in the tumor. And that's exactly the problem. You get the exposure of the heart, which causes this cumulative cardiotox issue, the same amount in the heart as in the tumor. Whereas if you look on the right-hand side of that figure, these are animals dosed with 6x a dose, so 12 milligrams per kilogram of the AVA6000 prodrug. And because that drug is only activated into the doxorubicin chemotherapy in the tumor, that even at 12 migs per kg, 12-milligram per kilogram dosing, we're only just beginning to see some of the doxorubicin appearing in the heart because of the very low amount of this enzyme in healthy tissues. But at that point, you've got nearly 20x the concentration of chemotherapy in the tumor. And so that gray arrow shows you what we call the increase in therapeutic window. That really is the benefit of the pre|CISION platform. So the context here is not necessarily to dose patients with much higher doses, but to dose them with, let's call it, a normal dose but over many more cycles and that clinically should deliver much better outcomes for patients. So as I said, we'll be in the clinic in the U.K. Q1 next year. We intended it to be in Q4 this year but the coronavirus pandemic has caused some delay to everybody in terms of their clinical trials around the world. And the recent placings we disclosed will allow us to file IND in the U.S. for this compound as well.

We've got 3 minutes left.

Okay, super thanks. So that improvement in therapeutic index should be reflected in tumor size, which we see on the left there, so treated with our pro-doxorubicin, the tumor size at 60 days is considerably smaller than those with doxorubicin. And again, you would expect that to be reflected in animal survival, which is fairly black and white here. The animals treated with doxorubicin at 60 days, all dead; and the animals treated with pro-doxorubicin, all alive. So just to reiterate that point that the pre|CISION chemistry can be applied to a whole range of chemotherapies. And I've just given a couple of examples here, which I won't dwell on because I want to talk about the use of proceeds from the recent placing. But the ability to be able to take generic drugs or drugs that are coming off patent that have really substantial multibillion-dollar markets and generate safer forms, that are better tolerated by patients and deliver better outcomes for patients is a really exciting opportunity for the company. Okay. So you will all be aware, I'm sure, that we recently closed a funding round and very briefly, the use of those proceeds -- net proceeds of around GBP 4 million to GBP 5 million. Obviously, a significant proportion of that will be used to provide working capital for the development of the COVID-19 testing opportunity, which clearly can be potentially transformational for the company. And to do that, we need to expand the in-house diagnostic facilities and also teams as well to add some regulatory as well as commercial converts to the team. And then in terms of the therapeutic programs, the pipeline of pre|CISION chemotherapies that I've just described, we'll be able to develop preclinically several of those. We will build upon the PD-L1 antagonist Affimer that we've generated over the last couple of years to develop a biospecific, I don't have time now to go into them, but you see 2 examples there where a PD-L1 TGF-b receptor trap and a PD-L1 cytokine biospecific. We'll be able to take at least one of those, either the TMAC drug conjugal or one of those biospecifics through IND and to Phase I and at least one more of the pre|CISION programs through the IND phase as well. And finally, I think I already mentioned that we will file IND in the U.S. for AVA6000 very shortly. So just to summarize then. As I mentioned, platform technology is delivering pipelines of therapeutic and diagnostic assets for ourselves and our partners. We have some significant near-term value inflection points, potential value inflection points with the launch of COVID-19 antigen test, the Phase I trial of AVA6000, as I've described. And we are now fully funded through to 2023 to expand the therapeutic pipeline to expand the diagnostic capabilities that we have in-house and bring those products to market. Thank you.

Thank you. Well, 700 watching, Alastair. And I think that they've all popped in their question for you. So I'm going to group them thematically. Many, many, many questions about who is the strategic investor from the U.S.? Is it Ruane, who manages the USD 19 billion Sequoia Fund that also look after Apple and Google, for example?

Yes.

So what are their expectations of you? What are they -- are they expecting to exert influence over Avacta?

No. Not in that sense, no. I mean, they are a -- they're a very sophisticated, very successful fund, as I'm sure everybody knows. And I've been doing work in the U.S. for the last 12 months and meeting with Ruane and many others over that period multiple times to build the story, the Avacta story in the U.S. So I know they don't expect to exert any particular control over the company, but they are a fantastic investor to have on board.

So they're not insistent on a NASDAQ listing? I am being mischievous, but that is a question that I've asked to other presenters in tonight's event. So dual listing?

Yes. I thought the last speaker gave a perfect answer to that question, so my answer is exactly the same. But being an analyst to biotech has its issues. We are not at the stage yet where we could consider a NASDAQ listing. So we have a very clear set of objectives over the next 2 years to deliver. But ultimately, yes, if the opportunity is right, the valuation is right and it's executed properly, then a dual listing or a listing of the therapeutic activity in the U.S. would give access to those scale-up funds and run multiple clinical trials in parallel.

So this is clearly -- this is semantics, but are you a COVID stock now or a cancer stock?

Well, I mean, it would be silly of me to play down the importance of the COVID-19 opportunity in terms of the valuation of the company, in terms of -- if we can bring the saliva-based lateral flow test strip to market successfully and quickly, then the revenues from that could be absolutely astronomical. We all know that. But it remains a development challenge. We have to get that product to the market. So I'm pragmatic. I wouldn't describe us as a COVID stock. I think I've tried to get across the message that there is the core business that we've been building for, well, for many years now, to be frank. That core business can deliver substantial shareholder value over the long term. And that got the likes of Ruane interested long before the COVID pandemic occurred. So it's a critical product development for us without any doubt. But I think people have to understand the value is spread across the group in Avacta.

Okay. So let's have a look at -- so I'm just struggling -- you can hear me, that's the main thing, Alastair. [ Nicky Harley ] asks what deal structure would you look at for COVID-19-neutralizing therapy, JV or licensing deal?

Well, I think we'd look at both of those. I mean, clearly, we can't afford to fund the JV, the traditional sense of a JV. We don't fund the AffyXell JV we have with Daewoong in South Korea. That's not practical for us. But I think we would look at either of those opportunities. Certainly, our focus is on finding a licensing partner. And we're doing -- whilst we're doing that, we're doing more work to build out the preclinical characterization of those atoms in terms of infectivity assays and so on, which is critical in landing those sorts of deals.

Back on whether that's a good thing or bad, I'm not sure. Alastair, from [ Sheldon Robins ], do you believe your COVID-19 lateral flow has the potential to be a global best-in-class?

Hi, Shelly. Yes, I do. I mean we simply wouldn't be spending the time doing it if I didn't. Shelly knows me very well, and I think many of you listeners well, I'm pretty straightforward. We have a high level of confidence that we will deliver that lateral flow test strip. Clearly, it is critical when we get to the point of clinical validation what the sensitivity and specificity are. But given the sort of guidelines that we're seeing emerge, I think we are very likely to meet those performance parameters. So yes, I think it could be absolutely transformational for the group.

[ Matthew Berinsing ] says is either the U.K. or U.S. government aware of your LFT rapid test?

The U.K. government certainly is. The U.S. government probably is. I can't say more than that.

Okay. There are some chunterings on the board about your use of the expression fully funded. People are saying, yes, you said that last year, so what's the case now? Just to reconfirm.

Well, I mean, obviously, not wishing to be rude, but now people need to remember what I said, which was when we raised money in April, we were fully funded with the plan that we had at the time, which was to shelve half of our own therapeutic programs because we didn't have the resources to develop them. So we were fully funded with a focus on getting AVA6000 into the clinic. That was our stated priority because it's a massive value inflection point for the group. The funds that we've just raised at a much higher valuation for the company, of course, that allows us to be far more expensive and unlock that pipeline of opportunities that I've just described. So we're comparing apples and oranges, whatever the phrase is, if we're comparing now to last October.

Okay. Let's have another comparison question from [ Joseph Oldman ]. If you were a private investor rather than the Chief Executive, which of your current pipelines would you be most excited about, given AVA6000 is described as a potential blockbuster?

Yes, I suppose it depends on your appetite for sex and violence, doesn't it, really. I think the chemotherapy pipeline provides a nearer term, certainly nearer term in terms of getting into the clinic and a value inflection point from that perspective. Potentially, if we can remove or dramatically reduce the side effects of a range of chemotherapies, I mean that is not only a huge commercial opportunity, but could transform the way cancers are treated. So that is genuinely very exciting. And the reason I sort of caveated that at the beginning is really that going a step beyond that and combining immunotherapies with chemotherapies in a single drug molecule where the warhead is released in the tumor microenvironment and synergizes with the immunotherapy. Now that's a step beyond. So -- but of course, it isn't -- it has more risk associated with that, it's a longer-term development. But the data -- I haven't had time to show here, but the data that I've talked about recently with the first of those TMAC drug conjugates is looking really, really encouraging, taking difficult cancer models in animals into complete regression.

Okay. You're setting up manufacturing, COVID delays factored into this at all?

I don't fully understand the question. The manufacturing of what?

Okay. So we'll pass on that one because I have got 2 or 3 questions all merged into one, and I've got plenty of choice. So what is the predicted income of the BAMS test when your launch is in July? And how does the rate progress of LFT thus far? No, I'm sorry, that's -- right. What do you expect the Adeptrix manufacturing capacity to be for the BAMS test?

Okay. So the route to market for that high-end laboratory test with Adeptrix is most likely to be through the mass spectrometry equipment manufacturers. So Adeptrix, like Avacta, is a relatively small company. The route to market will be through the installed base of those mass spectrometers. So those are companies, the likes of Shimadzu, Waters, Agilent, Brooke, those types of companies. And obviously, I can't give specifics, but we are beginning to talk to those companies now that we have a prototype test with a date, and we can see that the test is working. So right now, we have not got to the point of establishing those OEM partnerships. We don't know what the end use price will be. So it's very difficult to answer that accurately and usefully.

Is Alastair aware of any tangible work done to date by Medusa to ensure that should we get the necessary approvals, that there will be no material lead times in being able to get the test to market?

Yes, that's a good question. I obviously can't give any details on Medusa's activity and their investments and their preparations. It's obviously confidential information of theirs. But I can give a sort of general comment that I am certainly aware of significant investments and preparation going on by the Medusa 19 team to ensure that as soon as there is a lateral flow test strip CE Marked and ultimately, FDA approved as well, that there will be no delay in taking that to market whatsoever.

Time lines to get the COVID-19 product to market?

Yes. No, it's a question we're asked all the time. I'm not being sort of deliberately evasive. We are in the process right now of putting in place the manufacturing partners. And I think I've said many times that the primary objective is to get a test that works well because if it doesn't provide a good enough and then a negative predictive value, it's not going to be any good as a mass screening test. So that's the primary objective. And then the secondary objective that determines the commercial success is manufacturing capacity because the sort of demand that is being spoken about, tens of millions or even hundreds of millions of tests per month requires many manufacturing partners to be put in place. So we're in that process of putting manufacturing partners in place. Those are the partners who will produce the batches for validation or for regulatory or that process that I've talked about. So to actually fix a time now and tell people a date when the product will be ready will be misleading. I mean we genuinely haven't resolved yet with those manufacturing partners how to take a process that normally takes many, many months, if not a year, to get from where we are now to our product on a shelf, how we compress that into -- in a matter of weeks. That's a huge challenge, but one that we and the partners we're talking to are up for. So as soon as we have a firm date, I will be completely comfortable with sharing that with the market.

Okay. Lots of questions about partnerships, but equally, takeover approaches, has there been any?

We have absolutely no intention of moving from the path that we're on, which is develop the products, get into the clinic, progress the company.

You've got some bossy investors. Kent Holden says, when will Medusa start sales? Please don't just say summer.

I think I've answered that question already.

So in terms of which summer, I mean Australia, its summer is next January. So summer here, we could say that we had our summer last month when it was warm. When is summer? Is summer to you July?

Well, I've just described the process, what we've got to go through. And that is not under our control. There is a process we have to go through to put manufactured products through a regulatory process and achieve the right approvals, either self-certification or auditing by a notified body to sell to consumers. Now that has to be done, and that will take time. And as soon as I know exactly what that time line is, I'll share that with the market. But it's not Christmas, it's much sooner than that. But I don't know what that date is precisely yet.

Okay. Another theme, and just 2 more questions, another theme is resources, resources, resources because your company is quite small in terms of personnel. But Gary Reeves write, do we have potential and resources to develop an antibody test? Is it something we are interested in?

Okay. So the answer is no, but let me explain why. So there's a couple of reasons. First of all, antibody tests are relatively easy to do. And by doing an antibody test is you are detecting human antibodies against the virus. But without going into the signs of it, it's pretty straightforward to detect human antibodies. You don't need an asthma, a new asthma or a new anything. And that's the reason why there's literally hundreds of them in development. So it's going to be an extremely crowded landscape anyway, and there are numerous tests now in the market, which work perfectly well. There's a lesson to learn actually, which is the speed with which a lot of those early tests were brought to market. I'm sure everyone remembers that a lot of them just didn't work very well when they were brought to market, and that was because things were presumably rushed and not done properly. So there's a lesson to learn there for us and other people developing antigen tests. But no, there's no benefit to using an Affimer in that context. And it's going to be a very crowded commercial landscape. There's a very few antigen test in development, so it's a much better place for us to play.

And it's a very crowded Q&A chat box I've got as well. You've received something like 60 questions, but you've also received praise. [ Yuang Zhao ] says thank you, Alastair and your staff for your hard work. [ John Unikowski ] says congratulations on your recent R&D progress, especially in oncology.

Well, thank you. I appreciate that and I appreciate people mentioning the hard work because there is a huge amount of graft that goes on.

Do you feel as though you've been more productive during lockdown in terms of the time no longer spent on commuting and flying? Do you feel as though you're actually achieving more?

Absolutely. Actually, most people I speak to in Avacta and elsewhere say that productivity has gone up. But I think there's also a risk of you never walk away from your desk. I mean you're literally -- I'm here at 7:00 in the morning, I grab a [ a cup of coffee ] and I'm back [indiscernible] a lot of people do that, [indiscernible] the least you can do.

And it's very funny because your sound has just started to go off. So I think that's a good time for us to part company and give you a rest. Alastair, thank you very much indeed. Really appreciate you being here. Thank you very much, indeed. Okay. Well, my video has gone, but I do have some things to say. A lot of you asked questions. All those questions will be passed to all the presenters. And hopefully, we'll do a follow-up video with Alastair, which will focus in and drill down on all the questions you've asked. And it just -- I'd just like to say thank you, Alastair, Michael, Joe Wiley, Dr. Jonathan Tobin. My glamorous assistants, Craig, Thomas and Ruth. Next Thursday, the 18th, we -- it will be just as revealing when we host on the market PCF Group and Shanta Gold. Presentations and a replay of tonight's event will be e-mailed to you and all your questions will be passed to each of this evening's presenters. I'm sorry, I'm not in vision to wave you cheerio, but this event is now closed. Thank you.