Aviva plc (AV) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, everyone. Thank you so much for joining us here today for this Customer In Focus session. It's really great to see you all. So I'm here with Cheryl Toner, our Chief Customer and Marketing Officer. She now has joined us over 3 years ago from NatWest and she's brought invaluable expertise on the customer and digital from the banking world. And of course, now we would consider ourselves to be up there with them on that with some of the technology that we have. Since joining Aviva, Cheryl has been instrumental in transforming our customer and marketing capabilities and in turn, how we deliver for our customers. So today, we're going to take you through the progress that we've made, tell you about the opportunities we see and the priorities in more detail. We also have Doug Brown and Jason Storah with us to share examples directly from the business. And of course, there will be plenty of time for Q&A at the end. So before we get started, I wanted to put this session in context. Over the last 3 years, we have held 7 In Focus sessions covering the full spectrum of our business across insurance, wealth and retirement. And through these, you've seen the advantages that scale and diversification brings to Aviva. Today's session is about the glue that holds our model together, customer. And in fact, everything that we've already delivered is down to our customer-centered strategy in our core markets of the U.K., Canada and Ireland and the investments that we've made in our customer capabilities. So now we want to tell you more about what we see as a critical underpin for our confidence in our financial targets. So let's start with today's key messages. As I've always said, customers are at the heart of Aviva. And with almost 20 million of them, we have a franchise that sets us apart with a real competitive advantage. We've made a huge amount of progress. More and more people are choosing Aviva, we're serving more of their needs and we're transforming experience. But there is still so much more to go after. We have ambitions to grow to over 21 million customers, and 5.7 million U.K. customers with multiple policies by 2026. And the potential beyond this is significant. So while these aren't financial targets, they are the core elements of our equity story. So as you know, our strategy is focused on becoming the go-to customer brand across insurance, wealth and retirement. We want to be there for our customers wherever and however they need us. We want more of them to stay with us for longer so that we can look after more of their needs through key life moments. And because of the breadth of our product offering, we have the ability to do just that. From Junior ISAs, first workplace pensions with auto enrollment, insurance on cars and homes right through to helping prepare for and [ transition ]into retirement. As a result, more people will continue to choose Aviva, allowing us to grow sustainably and profitably whatever market challenges we face. So let's move to our unrivaled customer franchise. In the U.K., we have the largest customer base of any insurer, right up there with the major U.K. banks. And the importance of this scale cannot be overstated. It's a key source of growth for us. So let me tell you why. Today, we have 5 million customers in the U.K. with multiple policies. And we know these customers are more engaged and will stay with us for longer. But that means we have 11 million with just a single policy. This is a huge opportunity, and it exists right there in our customer base. We know them, they know us, and we don't have to go out and find them. And with all the work that we've done to unlock marketing permissions, we can now directly speak to almost 9 million customers, deepening relationships and building greater levels of trust and loyalty. We also have 3.5 million affluent customers, that hold over more than GBP 1 trillion worth of assets. This group has more complex needs and over their lifetime, will use 7 or even more of our products. That's a huge opportunity for our wealth, health, protection and general insurance businesses. We also have similar opportunities in Canada and Ireland, albeit at a smaller scale. And of course, we have the brand. This is a powerful asset that gives us a real edge. We are the standout #1 U.K. insurance brand, valued at over GBP 4 billion by Brand Finance and on a par with the U.K. High Street banks. And importantly, we are #1 for trust and consideration. And that's a huge part of why customers choose us. So to bring this to life with an example. Many people are still more likely to go with Aviva on a price comparison website or PCWs as we call it, even if we're not the cheapest. We're also highly respected by intermediaries, recognized as the best provider of insurance, workplace pensions and #1 for IFA new business. And as you know, this is crucial for our growth. On top of this, we're making it even easier for customers to keep choosing Aviva. We have been investing in our core capabilities, delivering innovative products and services and transforming customer experience through digital, data and marketing. And we've always remained laser-focused on value for money, delivering on our customer promises. So all of this highlights the true power and reach of Aviva. We have the products, we have the customers, we have the brand, and now we have the right capabilities. So we're already on a very strong trajectory, and we are accelerating. As I said at the start, we're aiming for over 21 million customers and 5.7 million U.K. customers with multiple policies by 2026. This will grow our top line, improve our operating leverage and drive performance, directly supporting both our group targets and sustainable profitable growth over the longer term. So that's a high-level view. I'm now going to hand over to Cheryl to give you more color on our customer progress and our priorities. Over to you, Cheryl.

Thank you, Amanda. So as you've heard, we've been on a journey to double-down on our customer efforts, investing in the key capabilities that will allow us to grow and build deeper relationships with our customers. And as you can see, we've driven clear results, increasing the number of customers with 2 or more policies, the number of customers we can directly engage and the number using MyAviva. And because of the investment we've been making in digital, those customers have a better experience. And importantly, we are still early in this journey, and there is more to go after. We have 3 clear priorities that I'll talk you through today: firstly, growing our customer base; secondly, serving more of their needs; and thirdly, transforming the experience we offer our customers. Across each of these, we'll be showing tangible examples, proof that what we are doing is working. So let's move to the first priority, growing our customer base. Let me start by giving you some more color on our 19.6 million customers across our leading franchises in the U.K., Canada and Ireland. This encompasses all our individual customers, whether they come to us directly, through an intermediary or as an employee of a corporate scheme. In the U.K., we have 16.3 million individual customers. And the strength of our customer bases in each of these markets is clear, be it more than 6 million in general insurance, 4.7 million in workplace or 4.6 million across health and individual protection. Beyond this, we also serve almost 4,000 large corporates. In Canada, we're the #2 general insurer with 2.6 million individual customers and over 1,000 corporate clients. And in Ireland, we serve nearly 20% of the working age population across our GI and Life businesses. As you can see, we're growing right across the business with new customers continuing to choose Aviva every day. And as our strategy is to accelerate in capital light, we've been growing our customer bases in these businesses. For example, over the last 2 years, we've been growing retail personal lines and we've expanded in Wealth and Health. That's building on already large customer bases and market-leading positions. And importantly, we're applying key capabilities and learnings from the U.K. to further differentiate ourselves to our customers in Canada and Ireland. This gives us a real competitive advantage. To drive growth, we've been investing behind new and innovative propositions. Let me give you a few examples of this. Aviva Zero is our next-generation retail motor proposition, which we built in-house and launched 2.5 years ago. Since then, we've sold almost 1 million policies supporting strong growth in U.K. personal lines. Workplace is a key component of our Wealth business, now with GBP 120 billion in assets. We further strengthened our position with an enhanced Master Trust offering and members in these schemes are up by almost 50% in the last 3 years. And we're not stopping here. We're about to launch our Guided Retirement proposition, which will give customers even more flexibility and security as they transition into retirement. And in Canada, our exclusive partnership with market-leading RBC has been going from strength to strength. We've delivered double-digit growth over the last 12 months, supported by a new digital sales journey and expanding to SME customers. Naturally, new customers are important for growth. but deepening relationships with existing customers is also a huge opportunity. So let's now move to how we're serving more customer needs. As you would expect, given our scale and leading positions across markets in the U.K., this is where we have initially focused our efforts. Today, 41% of our new sales are to existing customers. Putting that in perspective, we would expect that number to be around 1/3 of all our new sales given our scale alone. But we've gone well beyond this, reinforcing the strength of our brand and the relationships we have with customers. And why is this also important? We know that MPH customers are more valuable. They have lower acquisition costs, they stay with us longer and buy more from us. For example, retention is nearly 3 percentage points better for these customers in GI and we can also price their risk more effectively leading to lower combined ratios. Our MPH customers are also better protected and engaged, which we know leads to better outcomes. So it's a real win-win for Aviva and for our customers. The same is true for large corporate clients, where over 1/3 have more than 1 product with us. Our joined-up approach to servicing both employer and employee needs has brought us to the point where today, over 60% of IWR's new sales to large corporates are to existing clients. And we're just getting started here. We are confident that we can build on the momentum of the last 2 years, driving towards 5.7 million customers with more than 1 policy by 2026. To give you some insight on how we've been approaching this, we have focused on 6 high-value areas where we can see real headroom to do more with our customers. These span the breadth of Aviva's business. We've been using our data like life stage needs, affluence and behaviors to effectively engage our customers with the right products at the right time. From identifying pension customers when they shop for motor insurance on PCWs to increasing our direct activity in Health and Wealth or engaging workplace customers to consolidate their pensions and prepare for retirement with advice. The numbers you can see here are overall percentages of new sales to existing customers by product. And we've shown that by focusing on specific activity, we can take this much further, delivering positive outcomes for customers and driving growth for Aviva. To bring this to life, I'm going to hand over to Doug and Jason, they'll share some examples of how our teams directly support the business and their customers. Over to you, Doug.

Great. Thank you, Cheryl, and hello, everyone. As Cheryl said, our existing customer base is a huge opportunity for Aviva. And we're focused on unlocking this with customer and marketing. And I'll just touch on a few key examples in IWR. With a customer base of almost 5 million in Workplace, we've been working closely with employers and intermediaries to unlock marketing permissions so that we can meet more of these customers' needs. And as a result, we're using our rich data to identify high propensity customers and at the right time, trigger highly personalized engagement. This has already been a real success. In advice, we've almost doubled referrals to succession Wealth this year, generating over GBP 1.5 billion of opportunity. with average investment pot sizes above GBP 300,000. In direct Wealth, we relaunched our proposition with a new digital wealth experience. Here, almost 80% of new sales are to existing customers, highlighting the power of connecting our Wealth offerings. And more recently, we've been piloting Simple Wealth, our hybrid advice offering. All this is growing our business and supporting our Wealth ambition. But it's not just that. We also see greater loyalty across customers with multiple policies. Those who consolidate are more likely to draw down or purchase an annuity with Aviva, which is a real tailwind for our retirement business. Now direct Wealth is another example that demonstrates just what we're capable of. Last year, we launched a new digital sales journey. And last month, we became the first in the market to deliver an online switch journey. We've also been improving trading performance through marketing campaigns with a focus on existing customers. And this is working: over half of all new sales are to existing customers, higher than other channels and at a much lower acquisition cost. So that's just a few examples of what we're doing in IWR, and we're confident that the opportunity and ability to capitalize on this will only grow. So I'll now pass it over to Jason to cover GI and how we come together to deliver for corporates. Jason?

Okay. Thanks, Doug. So like IWR, we have a real opportunity to meet more of our customers' GI needs, especially as the leading general insurer in the U.K. We're working across all of our channels, but one of the most powerful examples that we want to share with you is the work we've done on price comparison websites, PCWs. We can identify Aviva customers when they're shopping for insurance -- for motor insurance in real time and leveraging the depth of our existing customer data, whether that's behavior or risk data, we can underwrite even more effectively and quickly with the ability to offer these customers beneficial pricing. And we've piloted this approach for the Aviva online brand on PCWs which has led to a material increase in sales for our existing customers, from 32% back in 2021, we're now at 42%. And these customers have up to 8 percentage points better retention. So not surprisingly, we're expanding these offerings elsewhere. With the scale and diversification of our model and existing customer base, and the ability -- we have the ability to do something like this, which is unique to Aviva. And the story is really powerful for our corporate clients, where we have the benefit of Aviva's waterfront corporate offering. No other player in the U.K. has the breadth that we do across General Insurance, Protection, Health, Workplace Pensions and defined benefit derisking. And the opportunity that we have with corporates is only growing, for instance, with the recent acquisition of Probitas, our footprint in the global corporate and specialty space is getting bigger, where so we can deliver even more for our corporate customers across the U.K., Ireland and Canada. Let me just put this into perspective. There are around 10,500 companies in the U.K. with more than 250 employees. We have an active relationship with over 3,800 of these, and that's more than 1/3. And of those, 30% have products across 2 or more of Aviva's business lines. A really good example of this is a FTSE 100 retailer. We have a long-standing relationship, and we're a provider of their group Health & Protection schemes. And this relationship helped us secure their GI Motor & Home business in 2023, which had been held by a competitor for the previous 20 years. And so the employees of this company now have full access to MyAviva and the Aviva experience. And the key thing here is that Doug and my teams are working hand-in-hand, building strong relationships with our intermediaries and delivering holistic service to our customers. And there's more to come in this space. But with that, I'll hand back to Cheryl.

Thank you, Jason, and Doug. And these examples show how we are serving more needs in practice as well as how much more we can do. A big part of this is down to how we're transforming customer experience and engagement. So let's move on to the third priority. Experience and engagement are a huge focus for us. It's the right thing to do for our customers, and it also means they stay with us longer and buy more policies from Aviva. We are doing this through a focus on continuous improvement to our customer journeys as well as a complete transformation of the way our customers interact with us through our next-generation MyAviva app. And we're making these experiences more personalized in real-time through enhanced data and marketing capabilities, while simultaneously exploring new ways to engage our customers. We know that all these areas are linked, and they're all critically important to deliver a holistic first-class experience. Our strong results here underpin our confidence in powering the next wave of growth at Aviva. When it comes to customer experience, we're never complacent, realizing our ambitions will ultimately come down to how we live up to our promises. So we're always focused on continuous improvement. We know that there are times where we may not get it quite right for customers, and that's exactly why this focus never fades. We've delivered more than 8,000 digital improvements over the last 3 years. Let me give you some examples from U.K. GI. As well as optimizing journeys for customers to buy and manage products digitally, we've been enhancing our virtual assistant to cover more queries with a higher success rate. And we've already seen an increase in interactions of more than 70%. Supporting digital adoption in this way has made life easier for our customers and more efficient for us. We've also transformed our claims journey and brought repair capabilities in-house with Solus, ensuring excellent service and reducing wait times. This has translated into a material uplift on Net Promoter Score for claims, which is up over 40 points. And we're always listening to and implementing customer feedback. We're making sure we get the right balance for customers across service channels, whether that's digitally or by phone. And we're increasing the latter for both Aviva Online and Aviva Zero propositions on PCWs. Bringing this all together, our Net Promoter Score for our U.K. GI business is up by 7 points this year alone, which is a real testament to our relentless focus here. And of course, there are similar examples in IWR, Canada and Ireland. We have been investing in our digital experience for over a decade now ahead of our peers. But customer needs are changing more rapidly than ever with an increasing preference for mobile first. So in June, we rolled out our next-generation MyAviva app. This is a real game-changer for customers and for Aviva. Built on native app technology, it will enable us to deliver an even more personalized and engaging experience as our single front door to everything Aviva, a crucial way to deepen our relationship with our customers. Now using a popular code base, our technology teams also have a broader pool of engineering talent for continued app development, and it will be far quicker and easier for us to integrate third-party tools and services. We're already getting very positive feedback. Online experience score is up an impressive 15 percentage points when compared to the old app. And we'll take you through exactly what it's capable of in a moment. We see MyAviva's mobile-first experience across Insurance, Wealth and Retirement as a real competitive advantage, something that no other insurer can do. The new app will be faster and even more powerful when underpinned by one source of customer data and powerful marketing capabilities. We're in the final stages of bringing together all our data to establish a single golden record for all 16.3 million U.K. customers, a full history that's updated in real time. This makes a huge difference in delivering the best possible experience. When a customer phones us, our agents will be able to see their historical interactions across all our products. We also now have the technology to deliver personalized real-time communications. This makes our marketing efforts far more efficient. Just to give you our most recent example, we ran a campaign for Protection and saw better results across multiple channels. Our quote rate from e-mails to customers was up 70%, and we had a 60% lower cost per click from digital advertising. With strong core enablers in data and marketing, we can drive greater engagement. And we're also developing new digital propositions to take this engagement even further, delivering better customer outcomes and more value for Aviva. I'll share just a few examples of how we're driving this engagement. The first one is MyDrive. Launching as a new feature of MyAviva, we're engaging our customers on safer driving and giving them an opportunity to earn discounts. And we're going even further, now working on richer functionality like crash detection and auto claims. Then we have Aviva Score to engage customers across a range of their needs. For money and health and soon to car and home. Aviva Score uses AI to ask a series of questions to help customers set goals, take actions and make more informed choices. It's transforming interactions from product-specific to need-specific and also collects huge amounts of data, helping us to create an even richer view of our customers. We've been piloting this for the last year and are already seeing traction. And finally, we have our Wellbeing proposition, a core element of Aviva's Health & Protection offering. We've already delivered a pilot, bringing together physical and mental Wellbeing solutions for several large corporate clients and have seen significant upticks in customer engagement. We are now building this out on MyAviva, and over time, we aim to offer it to all our customers. Bringing this all together and to help show it in action, we now have a short demo to highlight the fantastic new capabilities of the MyAviva app for our customers. I'm sure you'll see that what we've developed here is much more in line with what you'd expect from the leading banks rather than insurers. Alex Allen, our digital product owner from MyAviva will take us through this now. Over to you, Alex.

Thanks, Cheryl. As you've heard, our app has been many years in the making and responds to where customers are increasingly choosing to engage for their financial needs on mobile. And we've already seen great engagement. In less than 4 months since launching, we're already coming up to 10 million app log-ins in total. Our new version introduces a host of features that improve customers' experience and deliver new business opportunities. So let's take a look starting with the home page. We've completely reimagined our experience, introducing a brand-new design with a modern look and feel, organized under Insurance, Wealth and Retirement. When customers log in, they're shown the most relevant tab first based on their customer profile, helping to quickly and easily find the most relevant content. Next, we have a brand-new hub for notifications, which you can find at the top as soon as you log in. They offer a swift summary of key tasks that require action, personalized offers and opportunities to engage with relevant content. Here, you can see we're promoting our pension snapshot service. With one tap, customers can look into their pension's annual performance and see what it could mean for their retirement in a rich, engaging infographic. One in 2 of our pension customers have engaged with the service when offered, with almost 1/2 choosing to go into our MyAviva app and take action with their pension. As I scroll through my other notifications, I might have a renewal coming up, like this one for motor insurance. Again, with a single tap, I can go straight into my policy details, compare my new price to my existing one and take action. We can serve more needs by showing them personalized offers across Insurance, Wealth and Retirement, based on their profile, products they hold and previous interactions, showcasing the breadth of what we can offer. Pension savings and investment customers can now find a single view of their wealth when they log in. This year, we've introduced Find and Combine for direct Wealth, an award-winning feature that helps customers locate and consolidate their old pensions. Customers can also find Simple Wealth, our hybrid advice experience, which now includes functionality to apply for ISAs as well as seeking investment guidance. And we've enhanced our servicing journeys for our Workplace members, too. With a single tap, they can monitor the performance of their products with the new interactive individual fund performance view. We've also introduced a number of other journeys to help customers take ensure of their money, including managing beneficiaries, changing retirement age or making payments. We've also updated all our insurance journeys across Motor, Home, Travel Health and more to a brand-new design. Customers can find details about their cover, make changes and claim quickly and easily. These changes have proven to be extremely popular with customers since launch, increasing our satisfaction score for Motor in-app by 20 percentage points. As customers take more products with us, they'll receive the same brilliant experience everywhere, driving consistency and simplicity. Our app also features MyDrive, our motor telematics proposition that rewards safer drivers with a discount at renewal. After completing 400 miles of driving, customers receive a score based on their braking, cornering, acceleration and other factors. It's built to be mobile-first, taking advantage of tech that's only available in a smartphone to deliver a great experience. Customers have already recorded 2.2 million trips, resulting in thousands of customers receiving a discount of 10% on average. In a product category with a few reasons to engage beyond the need to renew and claim, MyDrive provides compelling insights to come back every week and encourage both greater engagement and safer driving, too. All of this is founded on core security features like multifactor authentication, core engagement features like prepopulation and communication features like personal notifications. These can be reused across the experience, delivering best-in-class foundations for every product and every proposition. As Cheryl mentioned, our app will become even more powerful as it becomes underpinned by a single source of customer data, combined with powerful marketing capability. With a constantly updated customer profile, we can predict the next best action for every customer, and by leveraging new marketing technologies, we're able to communicate with customers in a personalized way at the right moment and serve more of their needs. The shift to a modern platform also allows us to continually evolve features, functionality and propositions. We're not just meeting expectations, we're setting new standards. MyAviva is where we meet and engage with customers, becoming their trusted financial partner at every step of their lives. And now I'm going to hand back to Amanda for final thoughts and reflections. Thank you.

Thanks, Alex. Brilliant job. So everything you've just seen is already available to all of our customers that are registered on MyAviva, on the app. And we think it's the best in the market. As Cheryl said, our MyAviva journey began with the first app over a decade ago. So this is really the culmination of many years of hard work. And I'm really, really proud of what she and the team have delivered market-leading technology that positions us incredibly well for the future. So before moving on to Q&A, let me share some reflections. Over the last 4 years, we've transformed our performance. We've executed against our strategy. We've delivered quarter after quarter and do exactly what we said we would. More customers mean stronger profit and more value for shareholders. And with the investments we've made, we now have all the right foundations to accelerate towards our ambitions and beyond. We have the customers. We have the products. We have a leading brand and we have the customer experience. That makes Aviva uniquely advantaged to be the go-to brand for customers. So I'm sure you can see now why Cheryl, Doug, Jason, myself, Alex, the rest of the team are really, really excited about the future. And I'm sure you have plenty of questions. I know it's not the normal presentation that we do. But we are now going to move to Q&A. I'm going to invite Cheryl, Doug, and Jason onto the stage, it's quite cozy up here, and we will take any questions that you may have. Right. Let me just get myself -- my glasses on here, so I can actually see what's going on. Okay. So who's got questions. Andy?

Great. Andrew Baker, Goldman Sachs. So 3, please, if that's okay. I think it's 3. First one, the 8.8 million sort of marketing permissions that you have, that's still quite a low number in terms of your total customer numbers. What can that number get to? And I guess what are the constraints from that eventually becoming 100%? Second one, just interested in your sort of how connected your targets are for the customer numbers to your GBP 2 billion operating profit target. So really just trying to get a sense of if you were to, let's say, you achieved GBP 23 million instead of GBP 21 million or your multiple policies were significantly higher. Is that -- should we expect upgrade to the GBP 2 billion? Just how connected are those is the question? And then thirdly, clearly, the front end, you've done a lot of work in terms of the app and it all looks very impressive. How developed is your back end in terms of your sort of internal systems in terms of data pooling? And do you have like, I guess, a single view of customer internally? Or is it still by policies? And how do you think you compare versus peers there? That would be really helpful.

Yes. Okay. Thank you for those questions. We weren't expecting the second one, obviously. So if I take one and -- sorry, Cheryl, if you take 1 and 3, and I'll take 2. So do you want to start with the marketing permissions?

Yes. So we're actually -- we're delighted with our 8.8 million marketing permissions for 2 reasons, really. One is the increase we've made from 2020. So we're up almost about 75%. And I'll talk in a little minute about how we did that. But secondly, we're at 60% marketing permissions of our eligible customers. And that's actually a really, really good average for insurance and financial services, generally. Just to give you a bit of a flavor of how we approach this. So there were 3 levers. One was we looked at the contact rules that we had, had in place historically where we sometimes limited ourselves from communicating with customers when actually there was a legitimate interest to do so. And we took more of an overall one-Aviva view as opposed to [ sign-up ] by business. Secondly, through investing in customer matching on the data side, we resolved a lot of issues we had, had, which allowed us to communicate with customers and then they took up the permissions. And then thirdly, we've made it much easier for customers to tell us what they want to do. So we've made it clearer registration, for example, around how customers give us permissions. Just one point in terms of where we're going to go. So we're actually, we're happy with this level. We will take a continuous improvement approach to this. So for example, when the GI customers come on board, we'll look at that. We can probably increase around about another 1 million, but we are not pushing ourselves to do that. We are doing it in the right way, step by step. If I can, just to give one indicator of why it's so important that we communicate with our customers. So we did a lot of work with Doug's team around unlocking some Workplace customers. And we communicated with them around pension consolidation, which obviously, we know leads to better customer outcomes. And we have 2 groups, one of which we had just unlocked about 0.5 million customers from Workplace. And the other ones were customers that we had the permissions and we've been communicating with. And what we saw as the ones that we had just unlocked, we had an 83% higher rate of those people engaging with us and consolidating their pensions, which for me really brings home that customers want us to engage with them. That's why we'll keep going on permissions.

Would you -- do you want to pick a single view of customers?

Yes. So I touched on the fact that we had -- we've improved our ability to customer match and manage our customer density, which in financial services is so hard. It doesn't sound terribly interesting, but getting your one single customer density is a huge job. So we've been investing heavily in that, which has led to an uplift in marketing permissions and also all of our customers can now see MyAviva. John, my colleague and I have been looking at how can we really set ourselves up for the future. And we actually will be making operation, our single customer view that you asked about, by the end of this year. We're already in a parallel run period. We're obviously going through several weeks, months of testing before we make that go live. But we're there, we've -- should I say, we've done it, or...

Now you've said it. So I think the fact is that so many people have talked about this for so long, we're actually there. So I think that's very, very meaningful. So thanks for that, Cheryl. On your point around the GBP 2 billion operating profit and is there upside. So obviously, today is not about setting any new financial targets. I think what you've heard today just underpins that confidence that we have about the delivery of the target, and that sustainable growth profitably. I mean the 21 million customers and 5.7 million multi-policy customers. I think that back in our current plan, that is what we said we would do. But ultimately, the priority for us is to hit those group targets. And we have 3 group targets. They are still in place, but we have huge confidence because of what we've delivered that we can meet those. Thanks for the question. Who's got another question? Larissa?

Thank you. Larissa Van Deventer from Barclays. Question around General Insurance and the FCA this morning announcing that they plan to look at the increases. Can you give us some insight as to your thoughts on that? And specifically, about how big the potential impact could be on maintaining healthy premium increases and marrying that to claims inflation.

Yes. So obviously, there's been 2 announcements this morning. So maybe, because I'm sure we'll get it, we may as well just pick up both points here. So on Motor premiums, I mean, I think we've been quite strong in terms of our view on this. We have seen significant increase in supply chain costs. We've seen fast claims go up. The average cost of a theft vehicle is at a record high. I think we've invested heavily in terms of making it more efficient for our customers. We've just spoken about some of the things that we do. I don't see that the market is particularly making huge profits out of motor insurance. We've made that very clear. 12% of every motor insurance premium is, in fact, insurance premium tax, and we shouldn't forget that. And I think if we look and we base insurance premiums back to 2017 and you look at the average price of motor insurance premiums in 2017 and then inflation based on to where it is today, it's about GBP 12 more or something like that. There are not significant increases if you allow for inflation. So I think we respect, obviously, that the government is going to do the review. I think the wording of the review is that they will look at all the factors that have led to spiraling costs. And I think it's an 18-month review. So I think there's going to be a lot of work, clearly, that will be done before that. But just to be very, very clear, we do not believe that this is a market that is making excess profit. We see that the prices have increased for very good reasons. And that is the stance that we will take and we will take it very strongly. On premium finance. Jason, did you just want to pick up thoughts on that?

Yes. I was just -- if I just build on the last point here. I mean, premiums have started going down this year.

Yes, that's a very good point.

So -- and we've seen that in the market. You see the market data there. This is a hypercompetitive market. Margins are historically very low. Last 10 years, the industry hasn't made money. But we're very open to working with whoever, different stakeholders and coming through and putting forward our recommendations around road safety, taking out cost in fraud, reducing inflation, reducing bodily injury costs. We have a laundry list of those things that we would love to see to drive claims costs down because we have a very clear view on what that would do in premiums. Just on APRs. I mean, look, if you look at market data, Aviva is at the lower quartile, the lower end of the spectrum on APRs. We typically charge about 7% of premium for financing. That works out to about 14% to 15% in terms of an APR, which we think is a very fair cost for monthly premiums. Monthly premiums are important to be able to offer. It increases the accessibility and the affordability of insurance. So we're very happy with where Aviva sits on that space. We've looked at this. We know others have looked at this, the government has looked at it so far. So we'll work with anybody, but our numbers are quite transparent.

It's Farooq Hanif from JPMorgan. Just on the Aviva Wealth direct proposition. Can you talk a little bit more about your ambition there and who you're going to target and how you're going to market it? Because obviously, it's a competitive area. And are you just really relying on kind of your in-force customer base or existing MyAviva users? For example, I use it. I've got lots of Aviva product. I don't use Wealth. I mean, am I sort of your target customer base, for example? Secondly, related to that, you talked about investment guidance. Are you going to be providing kind of guided portfolios, different risk spectrums? One of your competitors does this portfolio risk 1 to 10 sort of thing. And then the third question is, what the overlap between the 8.8 million and the 11 million customers that have 1 product?

Okay. Doug, would you like to pick up the first 2? Cheryl, the third one?

Yes, the Direct Wealth. So obviously, we've been investing further in our Direct Wealth opportunity the last couple of years. We're very pleased with the progress that we're making. And we have ambitions to continue to build that proposition. We've seen really good success. So if we look across our customer base, I think we did an exercise. We recognize there's about 1 million mass affluent customers across insurance. We knew, for example, that they hold about GBP 600 billion of personal wealth and some of them have a higher propensity to buy wealth products. So using the data and the marketing activity that Cheryl talked about, we were able to access those customers in a more personalized way, and we've seen some great results. So clearly, we think by further engaging with our existing customers, we can have a lower acquisition cost. That's going to help us position in Direct Wealth, but we are still interested in attracting new clients. So you would have seen we launched the Direct Wealth advert earlier this year just to build the brand and the awareness. So all of that's going to contribute to the growth of Direct Wealth.

On the guided portfolios?

Sorry, what was the second one?

Guided portfolios. Yes. You were saying are we going to offer the guided portfolios within the Direct Wealth proposition.

Sorry, you provide investment guidance. I mean you talked about that in the presentation...

Yes, the Simple Wealth -- yes, we've got stages. So we've launched the first, we call it sort of version 1.0. We have plans to get to 4.0. So the first version of the Simple Wealth is focused on ISAs. We actually think the benefit of this comes when we're going to introduce a SIP journey next and then followed by a net retirement journey. That guidance will include investment guidance and so forth. So we have plans to sort of launch that over the next 2, 3 years.

And I guess we're also seeing the regulatory environment open up as far as that is concerned, the regulator much more keen to offer more guided advice propositions, which I think is a sort of tailwind there. Cheryl, on the customer numbers?

So there is a bit of a skew towards the multiproduct holders in the marketing permissions, clearly, you'd expect that because they are more engaged customers. It's not huge, though, it's quite representative of the base overall. I think what's probably behind your question is how engaged people are when they take out a second product. And we had an example in the presentation where we see that when customers become multiproduct holders, they're almost 3x as likely to register and use MyAviva. And why that's important for us is in terms of customer outcomes, like we know that customers who regularly engage with their products will have better outcomes because they're better informed, so it's really important to us.

And Farooq, of course, you're a target customer. In fact, everybody in this room, just to be very clear, is a target customer. And on the way out, we'll show you where the new app is. Who's got another view?

I'm William Hawkins from KBW. Thanks for some really interesting slides. Just first of all, the 2 figures that you have put out, north of 21 million and north of 5.7 million customers. Can you just talk a bit more about how you've arrived at those numbers? Again, you could sort of say, well, it seems to be about 5% growth per year. You could be arguing after all the investments you've made, you should be expecting much more kind of a takeoff. On the other hand, I appreciate this is probably quite demanding to achieve on the ground. So I'm just wondering why you arrived at those numbers rather than higher or maybe even lower? Then secondly, on Slide 20, I'm trying to -- the very different new sales to existing customers between motor and home. I think that may have something to do with the overall churn in the market. But I just wondered if you could help me understand why motor is so low and home is so high and how we think about the outlook for those 2 numbers over time? Do they both converge at a high level or something else, please? And then lastly, not to be too open-ended in the question, but can you talk a bit more about how you think your customers think about costs versus everything else? I mean I think there tends to be a truism in the insurance land, that it's all really well and good to talk about all the other stuff, but ultimately, it's cost that decides whether or not the customer is going to tip over. And also if you take the regulatory angle, I mean, an awful lot of consumer duty work seems to take the attitude that we're talking about value for the customer, but the regulator is actually just talking about costs. They want it all to be cheap. So I'm wondering if you could just talk a little bit about how you think customers think about cost versus the other stuff and how the regulator thinks about cost versus other stuff?

Okay. Thank you. Cheryl, are you okay with those questions? And please bring Jason and Doug in as necessary.

Yes. Perfect. So in terms of our 21 million and the increase there, really, this is where the 2 elements that we've talked about today come together. So we're actually increasing our MPH by, I think it's 14%. So clearly, when we are meeting our strategic aim of meeting more of our customers' need, that's not going to be reflected in the overall 21 million. And there's other factors at play such as it's individual customers we're talking about here, so other factors that would increase our overall growth such as growth in group protection, lives covered, et cetera, isn't included in that 21 million. And our MPH target, like that is an ambitious target. If you look back, that has been very, very slow-moving. And so it hovered around the high 4s for a long time, and we actually saw a decline with COVID, as you'll have seen on the slide, in '22. So to move that -- and you did recognize that. To move that metric takes a lot of focused effort, which we've seen from all of the businesses today. So both of those are ambitious but very achievable targets for us given the capability that we've built and the focus from the business.

Then the difference between motor and home?