Baltic Horizon Fund (NHCBHFFT) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Hi. Thank you for joining today's webinar where Mr. Tarmo Karotam, the fund manager of Baltic Horizon Fund, introduces the fourth quarter results. [Operator Instructions] The webinar will be recorded and published on NASDAQ Baltic YouTube channel at later today. But now I would like to give it over to Mr. Tarmo Karotam, please.

Thank you very much. So thanks for joining. It's always great to have these webinars after each quarter. And especially, this one is, I think, a very interesting one since we have lived through the 2020 year, which was very much an extraordinary year since a long time. We saw a different kind of crisis. The aftermath is still happening and ongoing, but I'll get into more details later on. So we have finished the year. We are -- we have accounted for the fourth quarter. The annual report, with further commentaries will be available in March. But hereby, let me give you some substance about Q4 and already some comments about the full year and then the future already in this webinar. So let me just start with the key highlights. In terms of the fund and its strategy that we are focused on the Baltic capital cities, we're focused on regular dividend and that hasn't changed. We have increased our investor base during the year and it's difficult to say how many investors we exactly have. But on 2 stock exchanges, Tallinn and Stockholm, it should be approximately 5,000-plus during the capital raising that we had in October. Then actually around 500 retail investors joined, majority of them from Estonia and the other part in Lithuania -- from Lithuania. So I think that has also increased the trading on the stock exchange. So we're really happy to have long-term viewed real estate investors on board. And what's interesting about last year and also now this year is the pension fund reform that was happening last year, which now will open up retail investors a chance to take money from the pension fund account managed by the commercial banks here to their own personal investment account and how would that affect the trading on the stock exchange in the Baltics remains to be seen. But I think that's something that the local listed companies are very much interested to monitor because, as it was, the pension funds, commercial banks that managed the pension funds, their allocation to the Baltics was relatively limited for various reasons. And it could be so that retail investors that don't take the money out to -- for spending, but rather for the personal investing, they would be more home biased and invest more in the Baltic stock exchange companies rather than invest globally. Then just a few keywords before we enter the details. I think overall, we can consider 2020 for Baltic Horizon quite satisfactory considering the lockdowns that were induced by the governments on our centrally located shopping centers. And we, with the team, managed the situation quite extensively. It was a lot of work. There was more questions beginning of the year how this year will look like. But let's say, throughout the year the information started to come in about the virus and what would be the -- how to control it because it was directly linked to us being able to open the shopping centers, which we did during the summer after a few months, but were again forced to close them in December during the second wave. But I think numbers speak for themselves. From the office segment, we were able to recover 92% of the budgeted NOI, which was the rental income budget that we had in the end of 2019 for the entire year 2020. Actually, the most of the recovery which we didn't get was the -- was related to either small shops or cafeterias in the office buildings. Basically, they almost were not able to pay any rent during 2020. But I think overall, the impact of the office segment was very limited. In regards to our retail segment, considering that retail makes about 40% of the NOI, we were able to recover actually 76% of the total budgeted NOI, which I think, from my perspective, is quite an achievement considering that the shopping centers were pretty much closed for almost quarter of a year. So that shows that a lot of work has been put into negotiating with different tenants and, let's say, sharing the losses. There was also some government support in Lithuania during the year. So there were not that many occasions where we basically didn't ask any rent from the tenants. We rather looked at it as a cooperation that we would find ways how to make up all these losses in the future together. So -- and I think very importantly, we continued to pay out dividends during the year. To make these dividend decisions during 2020 was quite difficult. One had to consider the ongoing lockdowns, but also potentially the -- how quickly the markets will recover, especially the shopping centers and the revenues there, also consider our investment plans. And -- but I think we made each decision at that specific moment, given that information that we had at that moment and from the results of 2020, we paid out a total of EUR 7.8 million and actually kept a reserve, which was -- also generated cash flow of EUR 3.6 million. So from this perspective, I would say that the achievement was also quite good, again, considering the circumstances. And I guess without the lockdowns, the results would have been much better. But moving to now details. We had a portfolio value drop of about 5% throughout the year. Because of that -- mainly because of that, our loan-to-value increased a bit to around 60%. We had also a drop in the NAV, corresponding drop in the NAV, and that was influenced also by the reserves, by the hedging reserves, change in valuations. And overall, the net rental income for our portfolio increased, but that was due to the acquisitions we made in 2019. So we made approximately EUR 20 million of rental income, net rental income in 2020. And our budget, if I remember correctly, was something above 2020 -- EUR 22.5 million. So in regards to the dividends per unit, now the latest dividend, it was EUR 0.011 per unit. And in terms of the distributions then that followed the October or November distribution of EUR 3.11 million where we saw a quicker recovery and didn't really expect such a strong lockdown in -- back in December. So we decided to pay out the regular amount that we would normally pay in November, but then again, had to adjust again in -- now in February for the Q4 payout. Just to be more on a safe side, once again, we have about EUR 4.4 million worth of dividend reserve, which we have been generating over the past few years. In 2020, the reserve that came from operations within payout was EUR 3.6 million. So the total is EUR 4.4 million. We had a little bit from previous years. So there was a question as well on when should we -- and based on what conditions we should pay out this remainder amount, it's very difficult to say. There's a lot of variables. So there's a lot of input that we have to consider. But -- and it's also -- I cannot really forecast at this point whether it will be in the next quarters or whether it will be distributed maybe over the next couple of years. I think the key for us is really to see the vaccines really working, the shopping centers remaining open at least for a few quarters or at least a quarter to really see the recovery and see that the third or the fourth wave of sorts is not going to attack the economy and not going to influence our portfolio. So hopefully, that will be the case. And I think more and more, it's also understood that if you want to attack the virus, one should really accept the vaccines, but at the same time, see where it is really spreading. And I haven't seen enough evidence that it is spreading specifically in shopping centers, but rather in hospitals, care homes and schools. But I think the most where it's spreading is at home when people are together in a very small environment. So -- but that remains to be seen. So it's difficult to answer the question when we will pay out the reserve, but it's definitely there to be paid out at some point. So yes, the future will tell. So this is just a visualization of what I was just discussing. The generated net cash flow, which is, I think, one of the most important figures that we have in our portfolio is -- has dropped since the second quarter last year, so shows that there was some improvement in third quarter. But the Q4, again, saw a additional restrictions. But all in all, it has remained quite stable during these past 3 quarters. We were hoping the recovery to be stronger, and it would have been, unfortunately, as Christmas sales did not happen in the centrally located shopping centers, it was closed or it was limited already that much before. In addition, the retailers didn't really have a lot of goods that they were afraid to order and the sales really didn't really show positive signs. That being said, the portfolio has still been very much cash flow producing. And if we made about EUR 0.029 in Q4 2019, then despite the lockdowns and the restrictions, we have made around EUR 0.023, EUR 0.024 and now EUR 0.022 per weighted unit of generating net cash flow, which effectively shows the maximum potential of our dividend payout possibility. And as you can see, the dividend payout per unit, we have reduced in Q2. And yes, Q1 results as well we decided to reduce that and also in Q4. And in regards to the cash flow position, we have raised additional capital. We have plans for it. Several transactions are in negotiations. And as well, there are some expansion plans, which we are taking forward. And I'll come back to that a bit later in the second half of this presentation. So I think one would look at this table and if there wouldn't be such large valuation losses, then it would have looked pretty much businesses as usual. But I think the most notable event for 2020 for us was the valuation change. And we take it relatively calmly because our LTV is still around 60%. It was 57%, so it decreased a bit. Equity ratio remains also strong and these valuations, if you look at the assumptions that were changed by Newsec to decrease the valuations, that was mainly to do with the inflation reductions and as well the vacancy increases and as well some of the cap rates were adjusted. We do hope that once we're back to normal and start the strong recovery that we will be able to regain some of these valuation losses relatively quickly. In regards to the balance sheet, then total assets, yes, around EUR 355 million. We have roughly EUR 205 million worth of liabilities in front of banks. That hasn't really changed much in 2020. And if you look at the equity ratio, then we have kept it throughout the year about 40% and really kept an eye on that, these ratios stood strong. Debt service coverage ratio also still above 3, so we're quite happy with those results. Now if you look at the cash flow from core activities, then, again, EUR 16 million is quite a satisfactory amount considering, again, everything what has happened. And the amount that was invested throughout the year was mainly in our expansion projects. We didn't have any new acquisitions in 2020. And we -- there's a lot of value-added opportunities, I've talked about this before in our portfolio, which we have been really focusing on in 2020 to be ready for the next cycle, I would say. So in regards to then profits actually distributed during 2020, which was including also the results from the Q4 of 2019, that was around EUR 9.7 million. And in 2019, that was EUR 10.25 million, so relatively similar amount. I think this is something that we already talked about. Once again, looking at our debt financing, then there hasn't been many changes there. We -- our financing structure, as you may recall, includes bonds, but includes the bank loans. And because we were able to finance some of the bank loans with bonds in 2018, we had negotiated all the loan agreements to have no amortization payments. So there was nothing really we could ask from the banks. So -- and the cooperation with the banks has been, I think, very, very commendable during 2020. We had even received certain forward-looking agreements from the banks in case of any potential breaches of covenants. So the waivers, so were very comfortable during that way around. In regards to our loans to be refinanced, then we have already started discussing this with our financiers. There are 2 smaller loans to be refinanced in the second half of 2021. We have little doubt that this will be either refinanced or prolonged. The banks are very much lending. The -- I think some of the margins that I've seen has been very competitive, even maybe more competitive in 2020 than in 2019, especially for new acquisitions. And overall, yes, we are preparing for a larger refinancing program this year since majority of our loans will be refinanced 2022 and 2023, so this is yet to be seen. So property performance, once again, coming back to this in more detail. When you look at the top tenants that we have, then potentially the discussions that we really had were with the most affected tenants. And in retail, we have had discussions with Forum Cinemas, which is cinema building, over the year. And despite that, the business was probably the most affected, with our long-term cooperation, we have been able to split the rental losses and the company still very much wants to operate also after COVID. It's an interesting story about cinema business. They've been talking about cinema business sort of dying out since the second world war and for some reason, it still hasn't. If you look at the numbers, especially in Estonia over the past 10 years, then not only the cinema visitors have increased, but also the average ticket price has increased. It was very low at almost, I think, EUR 4.5, EUR 5, 10 years ago and almost a 30% increase. One other thing, the discussion has been whether the cinema business will come back. And then I think it's the biggest -- the best test is to ask your children that, "Do you want to go to cinema when they are allowing it?" So then everybody is talking as well that all these paid services, paid on-demand services like Netflix, they will take over, but there are several restrictions to that, meaning that many of the directors that are artistic and are at the high end making these blockbuster movies, they are even refusing to sell any of these -- their production or their masterpieces to these companies because they make it for the big screen and they want the full experience to be achieved in the cinema, at least at the beginning. So there's been even, for example, Mr. Nolan made a movie Tenet last year and he's one of those directors that definitely is not selling anything to Netflix. Yes, paid on-demand has increased. But I think like theaters and operas, the cinema as a social activity will remain. And we're quite optimistic about Forum Cinemas as a tenant for the future. The strong office tenants that you see here, we've been happy to have good cooperation with them throughout 2020. And when one would ask, how would the office segment look like in the future then based on these discussions that we've had, I think the keywords are flexibility, meaning that more flexibility in the leasing agreement to maybe reduce 10% or 20% or then increase by 10% or 20% for the future expansions and different layouts of offices. But we haven't heard any notices or any ideas that such large tenants, large companies will not need offices anymore in the future. So I think that's widely exaggerated. For example, SEB continued their rollout plan in Latvia for us and additionally, took space in our office building, which is now, again, 100% occupied in December. So -- but again, these are just reflections at this point. We will see once the lockdowns will be over and we will then see more clearly that -- together with the tenants, what will be the adjusted reality. So our allocation to retail is about 40%, office is 56%, leisure 4%. The plan for the future is, I mentioned this before, the segments that we were focusing on is office and especially with occupied by stronger tenants that will also have a viable business plan considering circumstances. As well, logistics is carefully on our radar screen, care homes. So I think some news, hopefully, will be in that regard this year. In regards to retail, we are currently quite content with our portfolio. If you ask me, do we believe in our retail centers that are located in the city center? Then the answer is absolutely, yes. The long-term, let's say, adjustment of conversion plans that we've had, have been even speeded up during the 2020, the concept developments. So our centrally located centers are not traditional shopping centers per se. They're not 100,000 square meters. They are still quite unique in the sense that, first of all, they're relatively small, between 16,000 to 20,000 square meters, and located in the city center, really rather providing emotions and experiences in the future than just goods. And if one believes that people will return in the city center, which we do, then we see a strong future. And this is definitely the right time to prepare for that. Some adjusted figures. I think there's not too many surprises here. We had positive momentum in some of our office buildings. And we had an increase of Duetto's yield. And -- but at the same time, in our centrally located shopping centers, the yield drop has also been noticeable. In regards to occupancy, the level of occupancy in Q4 compared to the previous quarters remained actually quite stable. There was very, very minimal, I think, drop. We have been -- some tenants have closed their doors. But again, we have found new tenants in Galerija, there was Vynoteka that moved in. And in Postimaja, a pet store, and a few tenants also in Europa that were replaced. So it's organic replacement of tenants, that's what's also happening. But getting back to the previous occupancy levels in those centers, which is around 95%, 96%, which is a healthy one, will probably take at least a year, but again, dependent on the restrictions and the alleviation there. So let me -- I think retail is an important part of Baltic Horizon's portfolio. And let me just elaborate on this a bit more, and that's something that we have been discussing internally quite extensively. We have been expanding our team, and it's actually a very interesting segment. When it comes to the footfalls, then one can see that in the smaller supermarkets, the footfall has remained quite stable throughout the year. And even though that the footfall has dropped a little bit, between 15% and 20% throughout the year, the average checks have actually increased. And the turnovers are, in many cases, in the plus sites. So that's been very good to witness that our neighborhood supermarkets have been doing very well. For example, one of the examples is Domus Pro, a neighborhood shopping center complex that we have in Vilnius. We had some vacancy there, 1,000 square meters, but we had an outlet move in during Q4 and at quite -- at basically the expected rental rate. We didn't even have to make any kind of concessions there. So -- and we believe that it was a good complement for our tenant mix as well. Now whereas the centrally located shopping centers have been affected quite strongly because of the restrictions and lack of people in the city center, but what gives us confidence is that if you look at the alleviation of restrictions, then the turnover and the footfall figures came back within 1 month or 2 to the levels of minus 20%, minus 30%. And actually, turnovers in some months were -- in the summer months for some tenants were actually better than they were in the previous years. So that gives us confidence that the spring recoveries, summer recovery and, hopefully, the second year recovery in our shopping centers, also hoping that the tourists will come back, will be relatively quick. When it comes to retail, in general, then this is a good table from my colleague's report, and it shows the e-commerce as a percentage of consumer goods and total consumer services in various countries in Europe. And this is something to elaborate on that. If you look at these -- the higher numbers, then most of them, the higher numbers are located in larger countries and in larger cities where time is really an issue and how to save time. One has to also look at the cultural changes and cultural differences between the countries. And for example, if you look at the Baltics then, people are used to buying foods continuously rather on a regular basis, meaning almost every day, wanting that fresh food, wanting to pick their own vegetables, rather than in the states where people go and shop for food once a week. I'm not saying this is in absolute terms, but these are something just to think about when it comes to the e-commerce threatening the retail. And I think one of the key aspects in the Baltics is as well that everything is 15-minutes drive away. And if you think that you're a lady and you would like to get some cosmetics or a new dress for an event that is happening tomorrow, then it's quite expected that some of these things will rather be done in the Baltics still in off-line way, manner than an online manner. But I think regardless of that, the e-commerce percentage has increased during 2020. By the way, these are 2019 numbers. And today, these numbers are probably 30%, 40%, 50% higher. So between, I would say, the retail, online retail forms about 5% to 10% of total retail trade. So you have to understand that 90% is still done in shopping centers. And if you look at the larger countries such as -- and larger cities such as London, Stockholm and many of the other places, they have achieved close to 20% already, but it's a totally different environment there. One also has to consider that what you would rather buy online is functional goods. Let's say, Apple phone, it's -- you know how it will look like. You don't really have that much issues with ordering such goods online. Or for example, IKEA furniture, it's all clear what you're buying or kids toys, kids stuff. I think that's -- those are the segments that have been moving online more than anything else. But when it comes to emotional buying and, I would say, luxury goods, jewelry, then the increase in online retail is much more slower because people still are social beings. They want to smell the fabrics. They want to look at these garments. They also want to shop in the stores and getting a bag and then walking around the city showing that they shopped in, I don't know, Michael Kors or Burberry or somewhere that -- the vanity of people is something not to underestimate. And so what we're saying is -- what we're considering in our shopping center dynamics in the future are exactly these aspects. And what we have been also hearing from retailers is that it's very, very annoying and very unprofitable for them to deliver 5 or 6 parcels to 1 door and then get majority of them back because that's what people -- how people currently shop online. They order 3 pairs, and then they send 2 pairs back. Or they order 10 goods and then they send 8 of them back, free of charge. As well, what the issue is from the retailers we hear is that they actually don't get the money until the client is fully satisfied. So when you go to a store, they get the money basically right away or within a couple of days from the system. So it's very important for the retailers to manage cash flows as well. So these are the sort of the backgrounds of retail business. I would like to just share with you what we are discussing on a daily basis. But I think in our shopping centers, like the Postimaja expansion in Tallinn, which we finally now have the building permit for, we will not be adding that much fashion, but rather adding the cohesiveness and of -- meaning that adding more segments, office premises, what I call sort of boutique office premises, the size is between 300 and 500 square meters. So it's really targeting companies that work and have employees that really like to work in the city center, like the Rotermann area, like to hang out in restaurants, like to have meetings in buzzing environments, in restaurants, cafeterias there. So probably, we have interest already from architecture companies, from asset management companies that are not -- that exactly requires that 300 to 500 square meters and not more. So also marketing agencies, so people that really, really do enjoy. And adding that function to the area, together with additional restaurants, I think it will really bind these 2 buildings together. There will be some additional health services and now putting together the final tenant mix and the business plan is currently happening. We hope to, yes, start building this, this year. Probably will be more difficult because of the COVID-induced delays. We also have to be mindful that the retail tenants currently really feel strong in the negotiating positions that if you want to lock in anchor tenants, let's say, in February 2021, then the negotiating position is probably stronger for the tenant. But once we see restrictions being removed, and business really starting to recover, then that's where we also want to achieve, where we're able to achieve the best commercial terms. And it may only happen in the fall of 2021. So these are the things that are delaying the situation a bit. But again, very positive comments from the city architects. This is on the ability to also improve the logistics in this segment, in this area of the city. And just a quick reminder, this is only the first phase that we are planning. For the second phase, which will be the completion of project, we would apply for a new detail plan. And new detail plan will then most likely foresee adding some of the floors and some additional functionalities on top of those buildings. The first phase really focuses on the middle part, on the adding restaurants, adding a food hall, adding some fashion, talking to the current tenants, their upgrades and really making it a place to sort of meet and a focal point of this area. So this is another view for -- on the architectural solution. As you see on the right side, there are some boutique offices that we are adding to the cinema building. And a new entrance, they are right in the middle. Then when it comes to -- as I mentioned, in 2020 we were really focusing on rather than buying new properties from the market, we're really focusing on our own expansion projects. And this has been already in preparation since 2018, 2019, and we have discovered ourselves that to buy good, modern buildings in the market, it's not that easy and we'd rather really focus on using up our own expansion rights. So Meraki office complex, which will be an addition to the Domus Pro expansion, as you see on this picture on this red facade Domus Pro complex, that's been our priority. And Meraki will definitely be the most modern and the greenest office building in our portfolio. And definitely, it will be green certified. It will have solar panels and really now an adjusted functionality as well, based on the discussions that we've had with tenants that they need more areas where they can do the team building, meeting rooms specifically as people will be working more flexibly in the future and adjusted space requirements. So we're all able to take this into consideration. I think one of the key aspects here is, again, selling points for the tenants is that the Domus Pro complex is right next to it. Meaning that in the future, it will form a big complex on its own. It has offices. It has supermarket, restaurants, a health club and several other do-it-yourself goods, pharmacies, pet stores, pet clinic, and that's all there. So it's -- that's what will be the future of commercial real estate is that, really, the multidimensional segmenting and many reasons for people to really take advantage of this complex. And if you work there, then you're also able to do some shopping there and et cetera. So that's what we are focusing on also during this year. So maybe there's some questions. Let me see if I can open up the question box.

There's been -- I think that question, I already answered that. The dividend reserve that we -- the total dividend reserve is EUR 4.4 million, of which EUR 3.6 million came from the results of 2020 during -- and in October, we decided to pay out a slightly higher amount than was generated during the previous quarter. And that's exactly because we felt that the environment was improving significantly and that some of that reserve that we held back during the second quarter should be paid out in the third quarter. So in terms of -- we never really paid out more than we usually generated during the quarter. But yes, in the end of Q3, we decided that some of the reserve we are comfortable enough to pay out. So it may be also in the future that because of this reserve that we have generated, that in some quarters, we will pay out more than it was generated for the previous quarter. In regards to maybe just a few more words on the future plans. And previously, I've also noted that the ESG goals that we have for this year are definitely bigger than they were for the last years, and this has been a continuous process. So we're really planning the target our portfolio to be zero emissions by 2030, the latest. And there are several energy efficiency studies that we have done during 2020 and especially in the office segment where these are very quickly measurable and they are -- very quickly, we can act on it. So there are definitely lower-hanging fruits that we're planning either the change of the BMSs or for better optimization of heating systems and the like, so changing the light bulbs to LED and all of that. So that's been continuously happening. By the end of this year, we aim to have all our property -- office property BREEAM certified, either very good or excellent. So this is definitely a goal for this year in regards to the GRESB, Global Real Estate Sustainability Benchmark measurement. Our goal this year is to gain additional star. We had 2 stars last year. This year, we aim to have 3 stars. And when it comes to our shopping centers, then in Postimaja and Europa, the concept changes will, of course, include review and rebuilding of certain technical systems in order to sustain higher capacity for the future and future plans. So that will be happening also on the site, and certain parts of the properties will also be BREEAM certified, but that's more of a 2-, 3-year goal. In -- I spoke about Postimaja, what's happening in Postimaja expansion, but just a few words on Europa. This is a priority for us to really move quickly with the concept change that was started already in 2019 -- 2018 actually, already. It takes quite a bit of time to manage these changes because of the lease agreements ending and because of the various studies need to be done, starting from what is the right catchment area, what sort of tenants do we want to see there and also about what sort of interior design we want to see there, what will work there in a future exterior design, the functionality. So there's a lot of studying that's been happening, but we really made a big jump last year in that regard. We have changed the management as well to be more forward-looking in regards to what is the future of Europa. And we really took advantage of, as well, the ability to change the tenants. And I'm personally not so worried about the vacancies that are in Europa right now because when we come with a new concept, and definitely, in the next quarter I think there will be more news on that. The right tenants will be immediately attracted, I think, more than ever before. We have already started discussions with certain tenants that we would like to see there. So it's really -- has been a big turnaround year for Europa. And this year, it will continue. So we will -- we're planning to have a new food court there. Some of the keywords, food halls as well really targeting the customer, which is in the area more of a younger customer that likes to hang out, likes to get some interesting food, meet people, but also shop for fashion and have additional services experiences starting from gym, ending with beauty services and all the rest. So that's been a big priority and will be also this year. I don't see new questions. So yes, it's -- 2020 has been -- maybe a final note. 2020 has been really a challenging year for us. And when you build a portfolio of certain size like we have across the Baltics, and when we got listed, we were only a EUR 100 million worth of properties, 5 properties. Now we have 16 properties in different segments, in different locations, lots of different tenants. So we have back office buildings. We have more centrally located buildings, neighborhood, supermarkets, centrally located shopping centers, cinemas. So it's difficult to forecast any crisis. And it is so that our portfolio was affected by the politically induced lockdown decisions, and that's something that one can really -- cannot really foresee. But I think looking at into the future, we definitely want to expand our portfolio in other segments and become -- continuously strive to become the largest and the most diversified commercial real estate fund in the Baltics that goes through all kinds of cycles, and not only goes through the cycles but continues to pay dividends to the investors. Yes, even if it's slightly lower than in previous years, but that's something that we really don't want to compromise on. So yes, continuously to aim to become -- to be one of the strongest dividend payers on the Baltic stock exchanges, and I think we proved that also in 2020. I think we have one more question. If I understand the question correctly, any ideas how to enter the e-commerce business with marketplace solutions for our tenants. So I can maybe answer it in this way that our tenants -- the ones that are successful and continue to be successful are the ones that use omnichannel, so they can sell their goods not only locally, but in shops, but also online, in various channels using -- to maximize their revenues that they are really there for the client. And I think a very good example is as well, Amazon. They're opening 2,000 showrooms in -- they have been opening and will continue to open with different payment -- facilitating the payment. When people just go in and out, they don't have to stand in lines. So it's -- and Amazon, the CEO and the management team has always said that if we are just online business, that's not a sustainable business model as well. So it's omnichannel, for sure. And we're discussing with our tenants as well how to help them. Many of them didn't have actually online stores and had to really rebuild their online stores during 2020. So it will be a combination. And we believe that the best location for showrooms for any tenant in the future, it would be in the city centers, at least for certain segments of retailers and high-end retailers. So yes, we are in cooperation with our tenants, really discussing what's the best way forward for both of us. So there will be more showrooms in the future also in Europa. I already know that more places, pickup places in Europa, in Postimaja and Galerija, so either if it's wine or if it's food or if it's some parcels or anything else. So I think what the tenants -- retail tenants are also thinking in the Baltics is having these home delivery services. Meaning that people come to the shops, and then they have an option if it's -- if just to ease people from carrying all kinds of bags, then the home delivery of certain goods later on, the evening, for example. So that allows shoppers to have more freedom in their hands, not with a lot of bags, and that basically motivates them to shop even more because the goods will be delivered to them later on in the evening or at their chosen time. So I think that's something that the tenants are definitely looking into more and more. So these adjustments and developments in the Baltics, we will definitely see in the next year or 2. But once again, a reminder that will shopping stop? I definitely doubt it. Because if you look at the past 10 years, the retail spending has been growing on an annual basis by 5%, 10%. And higher salaries, that's what we've also seen in the Baltics and hopefully, we'll continue to see. Our technology sectors are booming, IT sectors, so more value-added jobs coming to the region. So happy to try to answer any questions over e-mail, if anybody has additional ones. But perhaps that will be it now for this webinar. I wish you, everybody, a successful 2021 and a very, very good moment also to really, really, really recommend to do some critical thinking and think how your own businesses are changing and adapting to the environment because it is clear that the environment will be slightly different. It will never be the same after any crisis. So as they say, that one tends to overestimate the impact of the crisis in short term, but underestimate the impact of the crisis in long term. So I'll just leave you with those thoughts. So thanks again from my side, and let's be in touch.